WWWedge Ezine
It's here to help you
Current readers: 237 November 20 1998, Year 1, no. 12
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The purpose of this newsletter is to give (technical) information
about the British classic cars Triumph TR7 and TR8.
To make this newsletter a success, I need your HELP:
o Let me know if this newsletter contains the information you're
looking for.
o Let me know if you want to write a feature article.
o Let me know if you have suggestions, improvements, etc.
o Let me know if you find this newsletter useful and practical, and
if there is anything you would like to see covered.
For comments, articles, etc. send an e-mail to
workshop@voskotan.demon.nl
WEBSITE at http://www.team.net/TR8/mp/html/ezine.html
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THE WEDGE TEAM
The WWWedge website is entirely maintained by volunteers.
Johan Vorsterman van Oijen is responsible for the design and the
daily updates. Mark Elbers is fully occupied with the Registry pages.
Eric Teunissen is responsible for the TR Scale Models pages.
The WWWedge Ezine newsletter is moderated by yours truly (Johan
Vorsterman van Oijen) and my native language isn't English.
But I'll do my utmost to create readable articles.
To save me from the biggest spelling mistakes, David Parnham (an
Englishman in Holland) will check the Wedge Ezine. Great huh?
To get started, the WWWedge Ezine newsletter is heavily based on
the Wedge Tips collected by Philip Johnstone from Australia.
Another source is the TR7/8 mailing list. I will extracts threads
from this list and publish them in this newsletter.
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INTRODUCTION
Hi gang ;-D
Wow, a couple of reader submissions. Great, I love it.
A triffic article by Kevin McMahon about the last TR which rolled off
the production line, Tim Buja submitted an excellent article about
the
TR7/8 temp gauge, and an amazing story by Neil Wright.
The Wedge Team will be expanded with one person. His name is Russell
Silverman.
Here is Russell:
I grew up in Southern California, heart of Car culture in America. I
lusted after the TR7 convertible when I was 16, and clearly, never
got over it. Dad thought that maintaining such a beast whilst going
to school might be detrimental to my career (he was obviously not
thinking about my getting laid as much as I was!!!).
Summer before last, I went into a frenzy that I needed a second
auto. Some sort of very early mid-life crisis brought on by the birth
of my first child. I was looking around and everything was so
expensive (at least $10K for anything decent). I came across an ad on
the web for a tr7 spider, 38K miles, that was less than half of other
autos I was looking at. I probably could have gotten an '8 if I had
been on the list at the time!! Oh well, the car is in great shape, no
rust, original everything, no dents, needs a few items.
It is really a fun car and is required only when the wife wants to
jet off in another direction, or I need a top down fix.
Only mod of note is the rollbar.
I'm in Boston currently.
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I have more stuff submitted, but I'm bound to 30Kb per Ezine, so
don't
be disappointed if your story didn't make it. The next Ezine is
already in preparation. Hope you like this edition.
For the next Ezine; it will be near Xmas so please submit your
stories/pictures to me about the wedge and Xmas/New Year!!!!
Johan Vorsterman van Oijen (Netherlands)
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o Last of the line
o Repairing TR7/8 Temperature Gauge Variations
Caused By Electrical Load
o Amazing story
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New at the WWWedge Gallery:
Here is a picture of my 1980 2 Litre TR7 convertible, I bought it
last June from the original owner who had had the car 18 years!, it
has only done 13500 miles, and as you might be able to tell, the
bodywork (like the rest of the car) is in excellent condition.
Despite it never having any restoration work done, it still looks
like it's just out of the showroom. The last owner did add a spoiler
and some wood on the interior, but other than this it has no
modifications. It's now up for sale because the soft-top isn't really
practical for British summers, and I daren't drive it or park it
anywhere for fear of scratches etc.
ADBT@aol.com
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LAST OF THE LINE.
The last TR to roll off the production line at the Solihull plant was
a pharaoh gold TR7 drophead. This car was built during October 1981,
its vin no is SATTPADJ7AA408534, and it was registered MOV 542X. The
car is now housed in the British Heritage Motor Museum at
Gaydon, Warwickshire, England.
As can be seen in the accompanying photo`s, which I took while the
car was on display at the Canley Factory shortly before it closed,
the car is a standard spec. TR7 with tan check interior. Closer
inspection shows just how short of parts they must have been during
the final days of production. Despite being a R.H.D car, it has in
fact L.H.D. sunvisors! Also, looking at the radiator, it has the
sensor installed for the electric fans normally found on cars with
air conditioning.
The plastic front spoiler was also missing, and the car does not have
the push button reset clocks supposedly fitted to all cars after
#402027; more signs that the car was finished with a limited supply
of parts. At the time I took the photo`s, Sept. 1991, the car only
had approx. 700 miles on the clock!
I myself own two very late TR7 dropheads #408275 + #408495 the
latter being the 40th last. I developed an interest in vin numbers
when looking into their history prior to restoration. One thing they
both have in common, along with apparently quite a few of the later
cars, is that they were first owned by British Leyland themselves as
part of their management car plan (M.C.P) - a lease car deal for
managers at that time.
Given the numbers of cars that I have found that were part of this
car plan, every manager at B.L. must have been driving around in a
TR7 during the early eighties; hard to believe until I read an
article written by Tony Pond, the works rally driver, who recalls he
was given a brand new TR7 every three months around this time!
Who said it was the falling pound and poor sales in the US that led
to the death of the TR7/8.?
A number of the last cars were TR8`s exported to the US and Canada. I
have heard of only a few cars later than my #408495 in the UK, which
all seem to be silver leaf TR7`s. I have read somewhere that the
second last car #408533 was a TR8 exported to the US and owned by the
guy who drove the group 44 race cars ?
I would like to hear from anyone who owns or has information on the
last 100 or so cars, as I am interested in the spec. of cars built
around the same time as mine. ( colours, trim etc. ) you can contact
me at ( kevin@dropheads.freeserve.co.uk )
Cheers,
Kevin McMahon( England ).
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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Get the Scoop on Free advertising,
and where to Find it. The Classified News
is delivered Free and Weekly.
Visit:
<http://www.spiritone.com/~msk/tcn_asp.htm>
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Repairing TR7/8 Temperature Gauge Variations
Caused By Electrical Load
by Tim Buja (USA)
NOTE: the ASCII circuit diagram will look "correct" only when
displayed in a monospaced, non-proportional font like Courier.
There was some discussion on the TR7/8 mailing list last year on the
topic of grounding problems causing mis-operation of the gauges with
increasing electrical load. For example, one list member wrote:
"I have been worried about the temperature of my engine... I have had
a secondary problem that when I load the electrical system the
voltage gauge goes down... Yesterday I realized that the problems are
linked. When you load the battery the voltage goes down and this
sends the temp gauge up..."
So, the inevitable question: if my voltage gauge goes down under
Load, does this mean my battery is dodgy, or the alternator is dying?
Or both? Or something else?
In this case, it is something else - multiple grounding problems. The
low voltmeter reading is caused by a poor ground connection between
the instrument panel and the body. Turning on the lights or the
heater fan will raise the ground potential of the instruments,
causing the voltmeter to read lower than normal. The high temperature
reading is caused by a poor ground connection between the engine and
the body. This page will show you how erroneous high temperature
gauge readings will result from a poor engine-to-body ground strap
connection.
A key to the discussion is to realize where your ground reference is
located. The ground reference will be the most negative point in the
circuit. When the engine is running and the alternator is producing
power, the ground reference is at the point where the rectifier
bridge is bolted to the rear half of the alternator case. This point
is the ground reference because:
1. It is where the current returns to the alternator windings, making
it the most negative point in the electrical system.
2. It is the point at which the voltage regulator measures either the
battery or alternator output voltage, depending on the type of
voltage regulator installed in the alternator (battery sensing or
machine sensing).
A poor alternator-to-engine electrical connection may result in a
reduced voltage measured at the battery, but it will not have an
effect on the gauge readings. Let's assume that this connection is
good, and that the engine is at the same potential as the alternator
- the ground reference.
With this in mind, the engine-to-body ground strap connects the body
to the ground reference on the engine.
The following crude ASCII schematic diagram is for the temperature
gauge circuit, with CAPS to denote actual connections not shown in
the ROM, section 88.25.00. The gauge unit in the dash is shown
surrounded by dots.
__POSITIVE___BATTERY____NEGATIVE______BATTERY TO___
| TERMINAL TERMINAL BODY GROUND |
| |
| ___________OTHER ELECTRICAL LOADS____________ |
| | (FANS, LIGHTS, ETC) \ |
| | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \ |
| |. . \| ENGINE TO
T--F--ballast--o-coil "A"--coil "B"-o--coil "C"-----B--BODY GROUND__
| . resistor | /| . STRAP |
|
. |___calibration____/ | . | |
. .
. . . resistor .|. . . . . . temp | |
. . . . . . . . . . . |_______________sending_________E |
unit | |
| |__STARTER
SOLENOID_________ALTERNATOR______________________________|
BATTERY TERMINAL
point "T" is the tap block on the battery-to-starter solenoid cable,
point "F" is the fuse & relay panel, point "B" is the body,
point "E" is the engine
Unlike the earlier TRs, the TR7 and TR8 fuel and temperature gauges
do not have (or need) an instrument voltage regulator. To operate
properly, the instruments depend on good ground paths, in order to
provide valid readings through a variable resistance sending unit.
Increasing the electrical load by turning on lights, fans, etc. will
cause an increase in current in the engine ground strap. A poor
connection at this point will increase the voltage developed across
the strap.
The instrument system is also developing voltages across both the
sending unit and the gauge, through two separate ground paths. The
gauge ground path is to the body and through the ground strap to the
engine, while the sending unit ground path is directly to the engine.
Based on what I've read in the ROM, the indication depends on the
current flowing through the C coil to ground. Since the C coil and
the sending unit are in parallel, a decreasing sending unit
resistance (increasing temperature) will increase the current flow
through the sending unit, reducing the current flowing in the C coil,
causing the gauge indication to rise. An increase in the sending unit
resistance (decreasing temperature) will decrease the current through
the sending unit and increase the current in the C coil, causing the
gauge indicator to lower.
A poor engine ground strap connection will place an additional
resistance in the charging circuit, causing a voltage to develop
between the body and the engine. This voltage will vary in proportion
to the load placed on the alternator. Since the temperature gauge
circuit is a constant current system, this varying voltage will
appear to be a variable resistance in the C coil ground path.
Increasing the alternator current will increase the voltage developed
across the engine ground strap. This will increase the apparent
resistance in the C coil circuit, reduce the amount of current
flowing through the C coil, and cause the gauge indication to
increase.
Since the temperature and fuel gauges are magnetic (as opposed to
thermal) devices, fluctuations in the gauge readings caused by ground
strap problems are significantly faster than those caused by an
overheating engine. I have seen a temperature gauge change from a
normal reading (approximately half scale) to full hot in seconds when
the electric fans turned on. When the fans turned off, the
temperature gauge fell just as quickly back to its normal reading.
This fast response time is the key to determining if the problem is a
real overheating problem or if it is an erroneous reading. The
thermal mass of the engine, coolant, and radiator requires a long
period of time to heat and cool. If your engine is truly overheating,
the gauge will take several minutes to move from half to full
scale.
If your temperature gauge reading fluctuates with alternator load,
you'll need to find the location of the poor ground connection. While
it may not yet be causing a starting problem, the connection could
worsen and prevent the starter from turning fast enough to start the
engine. The voltage drop across the grounding strap will also reduce
the voltage applied to the ignition coil, preventing it from
developing enough voltage to flash across the spark plug gaps. To
find the bad connection, get a digital voltmeter and check the
voltages developed between the battery negative terminal, body, and
engine during cranking and again while the engine is running with
maximum load on the alternator. For TR8s, the battery ground strap in
the trunk should also be checked for a poor connection. Poor ground
connections cannot be measured with the Ohms function on your
multimeter - you must measure the voltage developed across the
connection under load to get a true reading on how good your ground
connections really are.
Per the Society of Automotive Engineers, the maximum voltage drop in
automotive circuits is as follows:
"0 volts for small wire connections,
0.1 volts for high current connections,
0.2 volts for high current cables,
0.3 volts for switch or solenoid contacts.
On longer wires or cables, the drop may be slightly higher. In any
case, a voltage drop of more than 1.0V usually indicates a problem.
Every time I've heard Jack Bough (retired from Lucas Industries) talk
about electrical problems on British cars, he always starts off by
saying "Check Your Ground Connections!" Poor grounds are the cause of
99% of all electrical problems. Maybe this is why Rolls-Royce
specifies the use of ground terminals and wires to all electrical
components instead of using ground connections to the body.
Webpage: This story will be published at the www.vtr.org website.
Tim Buja
Illinois Sports Owners Association (ISOA)
Website: http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/buja/isoa.htm
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>From : "JHK" <mkeeler1@tampabay.rr.com>
To : "Francis Dupuis" <fdupuis@home.com>
Subject: Available Aftermarket Wheels
Hello Francis!
There is an article on the World Wide Wedge
(http://www.team.net/TR8/), under "Technical Stories", "Archives",
"Ezine", "No.3" which goes fully into the bolt pattern and offsets of
the TR7/TR8. It's a good read and discusses several wheel options.
Apparently the bolts are spaced at 95.5mm.
There is also a company which manufactures wheels that specifically
fit the TR7/TR8. It is called Compomotive, out of the U.K. They have
a distributor in the US and have a site at: http://www.usacomp.com.
The following wheels will fit, without modification:
6 X 13 MS, ML
7 X 13 MS, ML
7 X 15 MO, ML, AT, RE, CXN2
Please see attached GIF (graphic) files showing each available wheel
and/or go to their site for larger pictures. The last time I
checked, the AT wheel in 15x7 was $176 US dollars (ea). I have no
financial interest in this company, however I did a thorough search
on this topic a few months back and feel compelled to share the info!
John Keeler, 1980 TR7 DHC
Links: http://www.team.net/TR8/mp/html/wheels.html
http://members.aol.com/gaknutson/TR8wheels1.htm (G.A. Knutson)
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AMAZING STORY
"I didn't want another car, I'd already got the Cavalier which I was
quite happy with, and had just bought the RGV which was proving to be
very expensive. But one lunchtime at university a lecturer I knew,
who knew I liked cars, spotted me in the street and said 'there's a
bloke up the road selling a Triumph TR7.' 'So what,' I replied. 'I've
got a car and a bike already. 'Well, if you offer him a hundred quid
you'll probably get it!' A Triumph TR7 for a £100? This I had to see.
When I got to the garage the car was being stored in I discovered
why. As it turned out, the owner (another lecturer) had bought the
car six years previously, got it MOT'd then put it into the garage to
restore at his leisure. And had never been back since! The garage was
also full of spares - from boot lids and bonnets to light units, trim
panels and switch gear. Even carbs.
But I digress. Plans were underway to build a new university library
in that plot of land, and all the old buildings had to be demolished.
So the workmen had opened up the row of supposedly empty garages to
find one very un-empty one. They had contacted the lecturer but he
couldn't move the car. Nobody could. All the tyres were flat and
inaccessible, and more importantly, the handbrake had been left on
for six years and wasn't going to budge for love nor money.
The car looked tatty but reasonable. It had potential. The lecturer
saw I was interested and said 'do you want it?' 'Well I just can't
afford it at the moment,' was my reply. 'Look,' he said, 'just give
me your name and phone number. Here are the keys and log form.
Provided you can get rid of it this afternoon, it's yours. Just send
whatever you can afford to me, whenever you can.' (I later got 50
quid to him which he seemed quite happy with. Bargain!) I gave him my
mobile-phone number (how come all students are poor yet they've all
got mobile phones!) and then got on it straight away to call in the
cavalry. Jim Christie had to be the first port of call.
The call went like this:
'Hi Jim, it's Neil. Are you busy?'
'Er, no, why?'
'I've just been given a TR7 and I need you to help me move it.'
Dull thud. Then after a few seconds, 'You wot?'
'I'm serious. I've got a new car but it's about to have a garage
dropped through the sunroof unless I can get it the hell out of
here.' He was completely confused by this time! 'What colour is it?'
'Red.' 'I'm on my way!' Jim met me at the garage a few minutes later,
with another friend called Dave. We were by now armed to the teeth
with overalls, tow ropes and half a workshop between us, and the
hastily cobbled-together plan was to haul the TR out of the garage
using my Cavalier. We would then jack it up, clobber seven bells out
of the brake drums 'til the handbrake either surrendered or someone
got injured, then drive or tow it to Dave's house.
There was a driveway there (it couldn't be left on the public highway
without road tax). We could move it to Jim's later to work on, then
either sell or run it.
The poor TR came out of it's musty lair like a stubborn puppy, arse
grinding along the ground. My Cavalier protested a bit too. God knows
how many thousands of miles I shaved off it's clutch - did it stink
afterwards or what! You could have played tunes on the tow rope as
the Cavalier, engine screaming, dragged it's new stable-mate into the
fresh air.
Two think black lines were left behind the TR, because even though
the handbrake lever was flat down, those flat rear wheels didn't
budge a single degree! But finally the score was
brute-force-and-ignorance 1, Cranky-car nil. We hefted it's
beligerent arse up off the ground and whacked it's wheels 'til the
stuck brakes gave up.
While Jim concentrated on the mechanical bits underneath at the back,
I tried to sort out the engine and electrics for the forthcoming 3
mile journey. We attracted quite a crowd, being right in the middle
of the university campus! I wired up a spare battery I had, and
started checking the lights. One thing I've always loved about TR7s
is the pop-up headlights. These are also the first things to stop
working on a dodgy one, so if they played ball I would be really
happy. I flicked the light switch, and up came....one. The assembled
crowd fell about laughing as the manky old wreckage woke up and
winked at them!
However, the other headlight was hell-bent on causing maximum
frustration. We could see it was on, and pointing through the bumper
at the ground, but would the motor shift it up? Would it buggery! We
tested the wiring. Fine. The mechanics. Perfect. Tried WD40, levering
it, adjusting it and taking lots of different tools to it, but the
results were all the same. Bog all.
Diddly squat. Finally, while Dave sat in the car flicking the switch
on and off and exercising the other light, out of pure frustration I
hit the stubborn one. TWANG! POP! Up it came. Just as the other one
went down. Dave hit the switch again. Down went one, up came the
other. The assembled crowd was in bits as the car perfomed it's
'alternate squint' routine for about 30 seconds, until finally both
'eyes' closed together, and opened for a final 'blink'. We gave a
loud cheer and received a round of applause!
Now for the engine. You don't just fire one of these things up after
six years of hibernation and rev the taters off it. Oil needs to be
circulated. Redex put in the pistons. And that's if the damn thing
hasn't rusted solid. (Like the handbrake). So we elected to remove
the spark plugs and turn the engine gently over having lubricated it
from above, and here's where it all went pear shaped. Out came the
plugs, and neatly removed the threads from the aluminium cylinder
head with them. SHIT! Now the head would have to be removed and
helicoiled. Worse still, we would now have to tow the car 'cos we
couldn't get the plugs back in again. Well we could hammer them in I
suppose, but they wouldn't stay where they should for long.
The Cav had to do the towing, and I was the only one insured to drive
it. Jim had his car nearby too, so in jumped Dave for the first
'drive' of the TR. I didn't envy him at all. The brakes were abysmal,
and the tow rope short. The visiblilty was awful through the postbox
sized windscreen down that long bonnet, and rush hour was dangerously
close. The poor sod came out of that car as white as a sheet! But we
got it to his house without incident, and took it to Jim's the next
day. Off came the cylinder head and went to a local engineering
company to have the plug threads rebuilt.
They did a great job, and within a week the head was not only back
on, but we actually started the engine. The beast roared! Hip hip
hooray!
I was able to rent a garage from the council near my home and
actually drove the TR to it. Although it developed a wierd glitch on
the way there:
When you flash the headlights, they now oscillate up and down
continuously until you turn off the engine. Believe me, that doesn't
half get people's attention as you drive along! The trick is to look
at them completely straight-faced as if it's completely normal and
they are the wierdos for staring!
So the TR7 has a new garage to 'rust in peace' in, and it's now been
there for two years while I studied, went away on a year's industrial
placement, and then moved back for more studies. There always seems
to be another priority, but Jim and I keep promising we'll get round
to it one day.
I suppose to follow form we should leave in it's new home for another
four years (to make up the six again!).
The latest news is that a big hole has just appeared in the garage
roof. It looks like a kid fell through after climbing up there. I
hope the little shit hurt himself, 'cos my TR7 is now full of
rainwater. So after originally saving it from having one garage
dropped on it's bonce, I've managed to stick it slap bang in the way
of another one! Anyone wanna buy a TR7? Low mileage, lots of spares,
garaged for last eight years......"
Photo caption: "My Triumph TR7, practising the art of levitation.
(Actually the wheels are black, but you wondered didn't you!)"
Neil Wright (UK)
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Came accross the following URL today at...
http://www.racecar.co.uk/superflex
Somone told me sun roof guides were hard to come by for the FHC!
Found .... SPF 1110 L - Sunroof Guide Rail - 01 £ 14.05 and SPF
1110R - Sunroof Guide Rail - 01 £ 14.05
Which may be of use, along with suspension bushings....
>From the TR7/8 mailing list, thanks Eric.
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WWWedge Ezine is a free email newsletter for anyone who is interested
in the classic car Triumph TR7 and TR8.
Please note: the list of subscribers will not be shared with anyone.
The information is used to distribute the newsletter. This newsletter
is not SPAM. It's sent to you based on your subscription.
Advice, articles and opinions are offered 'as is'. The publisher
cannot accept responsibility for any errors or omissions.
The newsletter may be freely copied and/or distributed in its
entirety.
(c) 1998, The World Wide Wedge (http://www.team.net/TR8/)
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