WWWedge Ezine, February 1999 edition |
WWWedge Ezine
It's here to help you
Current readers: 260 February 25 1999, Year 2, no. 15
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The purpose of this newsletter is to give (technical) information
about the British classic cars Triumph TR7 and TR8.
To make this newsletter a success, I need your HELP:
o Let me know if this newsletter contains the information you're
looking for.
o Let me know if you want to write a feature article.
o Let me know if you have suggestions, improvements, etc.
o Let me know if you find this newsletter useful and practical, and
if there is anything you would like to see covered.
For comments, articles, etc. send an e-mail to
workshop@voskotan.demon.nl
WEBSITE at http://www.team.net/TR8/mp/html/ezine.html
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THE WEDGE TEAM
The WWWedge website is entirely maintained by volunteers.
Johan Vorsterman van Oijen is responsible for the design and the
daily updates. Mark Elbers is fully occupied with the Registry pages.
Eric Teunissen is responsible for the TR Scale Models pages.
Russell Silverman is the newcomer! He will co-maintain the WWWedge
Webpages.
The WWWedge Ezine newsletter is moderated by yours truly (Johan
Vorsterman van Oijen) and my native language isn't English.
But I'll do my utmost to create readable articles.
To save me from the biggest spelling mistakes, David Parnham (an
Englishman in Holland) will check the Wedge Ezine. Great huh?
To get started, the WWWedge Ezine newsletter is heavily based on
the Wedge Tips collected by Philip Johnstone from Australia.
Another source is the TR7/8 mailing list. I will extracts threads
from this list and publish them in this newsletter.
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INTRODUCTION
So not much this month for the Ezine.
I have received a bunch of pictures of David Parnham (NL). He's in
the process of stripping his TR7 DHC for a full body-off restoration.
I have made a slide-show so just watch and enjoy.
I received a message from Graham Gay (Aus.) who was a bit disappointed
that the WWWedge web section 'TR in Competition' is still not
up-to-date. I had received a couple of pictures from him together
with a nice story. They are available at the WWWedge but not in the
Competition section. I must say that I'm a bit ashamed. Ok, I don't
have much time nowadays to do a lot of web editing, but Graham is right
:-( Fortunately he offered to take responsibility for the
Competition section, so I hope we'll see this particular section
online within a couple of weeks.
I also got a message from a wedge-girl!!! Yes Skye Ferrari (Can) sent
me a nice picture of her TR8 DHC (no - only a picture of the car :-D )
Two weeks ago my wedge returned from the garage after the 2nd attempt
to pass the MOT/APK test. The wedge passed the test, but after the
visit to the garage she had severe problems with breathing. A friend
of mine, Anne van Leeuwen (proud TR6 owner by the way), offered me
some help in investigating this matter. He adjusted the carbs, and
found out that the garage did quite a job fixing my wedge. Unbelievable that
they returned the wedge in that condition. One of the carbs didn't
function at
all anymore, so I drove with only one carburetor, and the static
idle was between 700-900rpm constantly. Now I have a nice idle of 900
rpm and better breathing carbs.
Lots of material is delivered by Gary Valone (Usa). Thanks for that.
I will be using that to liven up the web pages.
Johan Vorsterman van Oijen (NL)
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No articles this month, only a bunch of (infamous) wedge tips
collected by Philip Johnstone (Aus).
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Some important URL's, since people are asking for it.
WWWedge (which stands for World Wide Wedge)
http://www.team.net/TR8
WWWedge Registry
http://www.team.net/TR8/registry
WWWedge Market Place
http://www.team.net/TR8/class/ (directly http://voskotan.net/class)
WWWedge Ezine
http://www.team.net/TR8/mp/html/ezine.html
WWWedge Ezine archives (the text files)
ftp://voskotan.com
WWWedge Man Pages (a collection of tech tips, stories, etc.)
http://www.team.net/TR8/mp/
TR7/8 List Archives (all messages from the list are stored here!)
http://www.listquest.com/goto/tr7
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Some tips about PAINT
Paint Colours
Here is a list of 1980 TR7 colours as shown in a UK Triumph Paint and
Trim Colour guide dated 8/80. This list may be useful for those
people buying a 7/8, trying to establish the true colour from its
paint name or checking for colour/trim authenticity. TPA is Thermo
Plastic Acrylic:
Paint name Colour Trim colour, Check
Pendelican White Tan or Navy
Carnelian Red Deep Red Tan or Navy
Carmine Red Deep Red Tan check
Cavalry Blue Dark Blue Tan or Navy
Aran Beige Beige Tan or Navy
Poseidon* Dark Green (BRG) Tan only
Triton* Light Green Tan only
Persian Aqua* Light Blue Navy only
Argent Silver* Silver Tan or Navy
Pharaoh Gold* Gold Tan or Navy
Bordeaux Red* Dark Red (Maroon) Tan or Navy
* Metallic
Hood and Stowage Covers: Navy with Navy trim, Tan with Tan trim.
Black with either trim colour to special order.
Notes:
Cars for export assumed to be available in the same range of colours,
special editions excepted.
The BL TR7 Parts Catalogue lists several more colours (possibly the
entire BL range available at that time).
Not sure if TR8s were available in same colours. Interior of genuine
UK TR8s is Blue Velour (apart from a few odd ones that is).
Pendelican may be an off White (Cream) colour. The colour sample is
not clear enough.
For the period 1980-81: James Taylor's TR7 & TR8 Owners and Buyers
Guide lists Platinum, Midas Gold and Meteor Blue instead of Argent
Silver, Pharaoh Gold and Cavalry Blue respectively. Aran Beige and
Bordeaux Red are not listed either.
Stewart Rendall
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TR7/8 Paint Codes
Here is the bulk of Rex Holford's TR8 Registrar report:
In this respect I have detailed below a chart of as complete a range
of TR7/8 colours, together with their codes, that I have been able to
find. If anyone knows of any colours I have missed please let me
know.
In addition to the colour codes I have also included the range of
touch-up paints that were/are available. Unfortunately some of these
are becoming somewhat hard to obtain but I have highlighted the ones
still available from Unipart. A word of warning, if you find a tin
of touch-up paint or an aerosol in an autojumble, make sure it has
not dried out and gone hard.
To assist with understanding the chart, I would make the following
comments:
a) Colour: The colour designation given by BL as part of the TR7/8
range
b) Comm Plate Code: This is the paint code found on the commission
plate (located on the drivers door or suspension turret)
c) BLVC Code: This was the code used by BL to indicate the paint
colour on the vehicle's body record.
d) GAP Number: This is the abbreviation for General Aerosol Paint
part number, which although obsolete for some years can still be
found on the shelves of some garages/accessory shops.
e) GTU Number: This is the abbreviation for General Touch Up paint
part number, also obsolete as with the GAP number.
f) PNM Number: This is the current rationalised number for the
touch-up and aerosol paints. The suffix letter denotes what it is
- i.e. suffix A denotes aerosol, suffix B denotes brush in lid can
and suffix C denotes the touch-up pencil.
g) ALT Code: In some cases an alternative code has been used on the
commission plate to denote the colour. The reason for this I have
been unable to ascertain.
h) AV: The colours denoted by *A or *AC in this column are the only
ones currently available on the Unipart price list and should be
used in conjunction with the PNM numbers.
EXAMPLE Platinum Silver Metallic:
Paint code on commission plate MCA
Alternative paint code NONE
Additional BL code 216
Obsolete aerosol can number GAP629
Obsolete touch-up pencil number Not offered
Current aerosol can number PNM6093A available
Current touch-up pencil number PNM6093C available
Current brush in can number PNM6093B NLA
I hope the above will help to solve some of the problems members are
experiencing when trying to match the paintwork on their cars.
In conclusion, I would like to take this opportunity to thank Paul
Towle for his assistance in compiling this report.
Rex Holford
MAP: see webpage at http://www.team.net/TR8/mp/html/ezine.html
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Gray dash paint
I found a gray paint that is almost a perfect match for the dash in
the 80-81 TR7-8. It is made by: SEM Products Inc. Belmont Ca.
The color is: Brownstone #15263
Tim
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Centre console colour
Have any of you owners of a late TR8 got Light Grey plastic trim but
a BLACK centre console? All late cars I've seen are entirely Light
Grey, with a small windscreen icon above the word "SCREEN". I'm keen
to hear from anyone who has such an "odd" combination.
It has been pointed out to me that my centre console is BLACK whereas
the rest of the trim is Light Grey. My UK TR8 was built early 1981
and has the late instrument cluster with clock and odometer reset
buttons going directly through the acrylic. At first it seemed as if
my car had had the console replaced because the radio aperture had
got damaged by the PO.
However, a quick comparison with Graham Howes UK TR8 in "The
Essential TR" shows that he too has a Black console - the rest being
Light Grey just like mine. Therefore, both cars appear to have had
this odd combination fitted at the factory.
BTW, my vinyl & seat trim is Navy Velour, Graham's is Tan Velour.
Stewart Rendall
Centre console colour?
My car has a build date of Apr. '81 and it came with a grey console
with a small windscreen graphic above the word "screen". I believe
this was standard for all '81s as part of the overall change to
graphic symbols on the facia (warning lights, small instruments all
had small graphic symbols in place of or in addition to words. The
parts catalogue shows a new part number YKC4545LG or YKC4617LG (a/c)
after vin#402001.
However, a few years ago, I saw a late '81 car parked on the street
here in San Francisco and it had a black console. I assumed that the
original had been replaced with a black one even though the car was
extremely pristine. Perhaps the factory ran out of the grey parts
toward the end of production and substituted black ones. Another one
of those great Wedge mysteries!
Fred Smith Brisbane CA
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TR8 Carb Intake Manifolds - Painted?
I called Ivan Love (VTR TR7/8 Vehicle Consultant) tonight to ask
about what paint I should use on my intake manifold. He went out to
his garage and found two manifolds that came off TR8s with only 5k
and 18k miles. Both manifolds were bare aluminum, with no sign of
any paint. His cast aluminum pieces between each carb and the black
air filter box were painted the same grey color as mine, which match
my manifold paint. Ivan seemed to think that early cars (possibly
coupes) had painted manifolds. My convertible, built in June '80
(S/N 214108, engine # 12E01827), has lots of dark grey paint peeling
from the manifold. Is your manifold painted or not?
Ivan stated that he used a two-part epoxy paint on his FI manifold
early last year with good results. BTW, he also said that concours
points wouldn't be deducted for an incorrect choice of painted vs.
bare aluminum manifold.
Tim Buja Rockford, IL
TR8 Carb Intake Manifolds - Painted?
You are correct about TR8 Coupe intake (inlet) manifolds being
painted, although the tendency to peel (!!!) means many owners would
disagree about paint ever being there... The cast pieces from carb to
airbox on the 2 Coupes that I have owned are/were painted in the same
grey colour.
David Huddleson Ontario Canada
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TR7/8 Tail light improvement
Another even cheaper "upgrade" is to fit dual filament bulbs to the
rear light cluster which will give you 4 red tail lights that then
change to 4 dazzling brake lights on demand. To "upgrade", replace
the single filament bulb holder with the dual filament bulb holders
from an Austin Princess and add a few wires.
In fact, when using the dual filament side/stop fittings, one could
have a free position. This free position in the rear light cluster
could then be used to house the rear fog lights (another bit of
re-wiring here)! This could be a boon if you find that the tow bar
fouls the existing rear fog lights that dangle below the bumper.
This could also help if you have lost or damaged them in some way.
Rear Lights
Rear fog light wires are indeed coloured blue and red. They are a
part of the rear light/boot wiring loom and should be in the channel
at the back of the boot (trunk) under the locking mechanism. A good
earth is needed on the fog lights to ensure they work all the time.
Where they are set up on a TR7/8 means that a good deal of road dirt
is thrown at them. Keep the contacts clean.
As an aside if you have a dhc and need power in the boot (trunk) for
anything you should be able to find the heated rear window supply.
By adding a switch in the appropriate slot on the dashboard I can
control a 12 V refrigerated mobile cool box (Note, the boot must be
reasonably empty to allow a reasonable air flow). Wonderful for a
cold drink on a hot day.
Brian Ridley-Jones
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WWWedge Gallery Entry
Hi!
This is my 1980 TR8 - mint condition - I am the second owner of this
car and it's my baby! Even gals can be car crazy! This car is located
outside of Calgary Alberta Canada. Picture attached.
Thanks Skye Ferrari
Webpage: http://www.team.net/TR8/mp/html/ezine.html
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Starter Earthing
Paul mentioned the need to reroute the ground cable. Several of us
have had ground cable problems in the past and I simply added an
additional cable that runs from the chassis to the engine. The
chassis connection was to an extra hole that was already in the frame
a few inches aft of the hole that the existing ground strap goes to
(those holes I recall were metric, I used the ground strap bolt to
match up with a new bolt I bought at the local hardware store). The
engine end of the new ground strap I attached to one of the engine to
bell housing bolts.
The new ground strap was one of those heavy duty starter cables with
loop connectors at each end.
The existing ground strap on the car has been seen by myself and
others to actually begin to glow red from overheating during heavy
continued engine cranking. The additional ground strap totally
eliminated that.
While it may not be original the extra ground strap is certainly a
practical improvement.
Bill
Starter Solenoid Contact Problems
I've got the starter on my 8 removed for inspection, and I think that
I've finally found the reason for the hard starting problems I've
with a hot engine. Ever since I've had the TR8 (1988), the engine
was difficult to start when hot. I've checked and cleaned the
battery ground and engine ground connections, to no avail. If the
ambient temperature was above 80F and I tried to start a hot engine,
the starter would seem to grind forever before it would fire. If I
push started it after it failed to start with the starter, the engine
would fire the instant I engaged the clutch.
I finally took the solenoid apart to inspect the contacts. (Remove
the two posidriv screws that hold the fiber cap in place, and then
unsolder the coil leads - you'll need a big soldering iron to get
everything to flow nicely). As I expected, both high current contacts
were burned. To my surprise, I found that the third solenoid contact
(labeled IGN - it is supposed to bypass the ballast resistor and
give you a hotter spark while starting) never made contact with the
main solenoid moving contact when the solenoid was actuated.
Solenoid contacts & terminal, as found:
The IGN contact is designed so that it will wipe the surface of the
moving contact (to clean the contact surfaces, lowering the contact
resistance) as the moving contact moves into position to connect all
three terminals. I found that the IGN contact was bent out of
position and had apparently never touched the moving contact since
there were no wear or burn marks on either contact.
I've burnished the burned spots on the high current contact surfaces,
and burnished and bent the IGN contact so that it strikes and wipes
the moving contact. I'll let you know if it makes a difference this
summer. BTW, a new solenoid costs ~$90. Too bad Lucas doesn't make
repair parts available so I don't have to experiment with burnishing
& bending contacts.
Tim Buja
Starter problem
There have been discussions about starting problems. In one of them,
Herb Neumann and Greg Gall reached the same conclusion that I think
is wrong and needs to be straightened out. This discussion may only
apply to TR7s with fuel injection, but may apply to other wedges as
well.
Herb had also noted that replacing the relay didn't fix his problem,
and that it was intermittent. This implies to me that the contacts
were not the problem because replacing them would have fixed it, at
least temporarily, where temporarily means about as long as most TR7s
operate before having contact problems.
Nonetheless, because I am anxious to get the best reliability I can
from my car, and I particularly like fixing Lucas design mistakes, I
examined my car with the intention of agreeing with Herb and Greg. I
would recommend against their fix, though, based on what I learned.
Before I get into that, though, I would like to report that I had an
intermittent failure-to-start problem in 1984 that I was able to
resolve to near the root cause. In my case, the wire between the
ignition key switch and the starter relay coil was intermittent.
This wire goes through some connectors and, in automatic transmission
equipped cars, a lockout switch. I don't know where in my car it
failed (I hypothesize that it is in whatever piece replaces the
lockout switch, but I have no evidence of that), but I was able to
connect a new wire from the ignition switch to the wire just an inch
away from the relay socket. This new wire is redundant with the
intermittently connecting one. The car has not failed due to this
intermittent in the eleven years since I made the fix.
Now, when Herb was having his problem, he noted that he did hear a
click when he rotated his key. I don't know if anything else clicks
besides the starter relay; if not, it says his problem is not the
same as mine.
Back to the high-current/low current contacts issue. The
blue-encased relay can be inspected and improved by prying the soft
plastic cover up from all the way around the relay. Internally, you
will find as did Herb and I, and probably also Greg, that there are
two differently constructed contacts on the relay. Both moving
contacts have traditional rounded button contacts. The surface of
these contacts is rounded in all directions, such that it is a
section of a very large sphere. These contacts are silver in color.
The stationary contacts are different from each other. One is the
same button construction as the moving contacts. It is connected to
terminal 87A in the middle of the base. The copper lead length into
that base is higher, and the copper lead width is narrower, than for
the second contact, terminal 87. This terminal 87 does not have a
button, but rather is pure copper color with an indentation, like a
small hole, that is about 2 mm diameter. The buttons are about 4 mm
diameter. This terminal 87 is used as the high current contact to
run the starter solenoid; here is why I think that is correct, and
even if not, should not be changed:
I think that the button is supposed to contact the indentation in
terminal 87 to result in a ring of contact, whereas the
button-to-button connection in terminal 87A results in a point of
contact. The point contact has higher pressure, which is valuable
for higher reliability in low current applications. The ring contact
has higher area, which helps reduce contact resistance, the most
important parameter for high current applications.
There is a modest amount of blackening of my contacts after 15 years
of life and 48k miles. Now, I contacted the reliability physics
department of my division of HP, and they didn't have experts on high
current contacts exactly, but when I asked which of the two terminals
they thought was the high current terminal, they thought it was
terminal 87. They do have experience with terminal failures, though.
I described my blackening and asked what the symptoms were of arcing
and excessive current. Arcing when opening (which is to be expected
from an inductive load like a solenoid winding) causes blackening.
Excessive current would cause degradation of the surface and
discoloration (usually bluing) of the terminals due to excess heat,
not always right at the contact, but further up the moving part of
the terminal. Thus, the symptoms show that the terminal used is not
suffering from excessive current, but it is suffering. Thus, Greg's
success from reversing terminals will help in the short run, but
probably results in shorter lifetime than would replacing the relay,
or just cleaning and burnishing the contacts on the high current (87)
terminal.
By the way, it is easier to clean those terminals if the relay is
removed from its base by removing the two screws. But be careful;
with the base detached the thin coil wires are easily broken. But
these wires are easily repaired as well with a soldering iron. Also,
the two screws are in fact adjustments as well as structural; they
adjust the tradeoff between pull-in coil power and contact pressure.
I don't think their position is at all critical, but it would be wise
to note their initial position carefully before disassembly. If you
forget to do so, centering them is my recommendation.
Joe Gorin
Starter Heat Shielding
Last year I had troubles , ending in a complete starter failure. Got
the rebuilt from Woody Cooper. While waiting for the starter to come,
I cut open the wiring loom, removed all the black, cracked and
crumbling insulation back to solid material and re-insulated with
heat-shrink tubing. Then each wire was wrapped with that special
extreme-temp. glass tape, and the entire loom then covered with
another layer of the glass tape. I used high-temp. header wrap to
cover the exhaust system from the stock manifold, over the cat. conv.,
back to the muffler. All the original shields were long gone, of
course. After installing the starter (which came off and went back
in my car without moving the exhaust system) and hooking up the "new"
loom, I wrapped the starter and solenoid with a JC Whitney starter
muff, which is made of metallic cloth and high-temp glass, and
fastens with velcro. It all stays in position well and has done the
job, too. The starter turns fast, hot or cold, and I haven't had a
problem since. Total cost of the material was under
US$50., as I recall, and the operation was not too unpleasant,
especially if it saves the starter from an early death.
Glenn
Starter Heat Shielding
It sounds like this very complete job is to be highly recommended.
But I think that the time spent trying to shield the wires and their
insulation is probably unnecessary. The only way insulation works to
keep down the temperature of a device is if that device takes on the
temperature of a body to which it is connected with a lower thermal
resistance. The starter never gets much hotter than the engine block
if it is well shielded from the exhaust. But the wires have
tremendous surface area, and what little heat finds its way through
Glenn's glass tape and other insulation can only be dissipated by
flowing through the wires back to a cooler part of the car. This is
a long, thin path, thus probably of high resistance. So, I think
that this part of the work is probably not worth the effort.
Joe Gorin
Starter Heat Shield
Flicking through an auto mag recently, I stumbled across an add for a
product called 'COOL IT Thermo-Tec'. They market an item called
"Starter Heat Shield" that is described, "Eliminates starter problems
caused by close proximity of the exhaust to starter".
I think this is an American product marketed in Australia by a
company called, Thermo-tec Heat Control, Ph (02) 7513005. It's
probably sold in the US of A under the TM of COOL IT Thermo-Tec
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WWWedge Ezine is a free email newsletter for anyone who is interested
in the classic car Triumph TR7 and TR8.
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(c) 1998-1999, The World Wide Wedge (http://www.team.net/TR8/)
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