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As I recall from another article, the ethanol is mixed at the =
distributors, more or less at the end of the pipeline. I think it had =
something to do with the ethanol not being good in the pipeline. Plus, =
I think most of the ethanol plants are near the corn (upper midwest and =
great plains states) and it wouldn't seem to make sense to ship it to =
the refiners and then back north and east. It has been a pretty large =
expense for the distributors to store and mix the ethanol as I =
understand.
Tim
----- Original Message -----=20
From: Bill Babcock=20
To: Tim Murphy=20
Cc: britbits@netzero.com ; fot@autox.team.net=20
Sent: Sunday, September 14, 2008 11:24 AM
Subject: Re: [Fot] gasoline comparison
And there's an ethanol shortage, that won't go away for a long time.=20
On Sep 14, 2008, at 8:14 AM, Tim Murphy wrote:
As of September 1, 2008 all gasoline must have 10% ethanol by =
Federal=20
mandate. So I was told by a Mobil distributor. As always, a really =
well=20
thought out Federal mandate. At the same time they raise the CAFE =
standards=20
they lower the MPG by mandating ethanol. There was also a bill in =
Congress=20
to increase the mandated percentage of ethanol. Guess which =
lobbying group=20
was pushing that bill?
Tim
----- Original Message -----=20
From: "Jim" <britbits@netzero.com>
To: <fot@autox.team.net>
Sent: Saturday, September 13, 2008 10:08 PM
Subject: Re: [Fot] gasoline comparison
When MBTE was first proposed as an additive the local Triumph club =
president
did a bit of investigation.. according to what he'd come up with =
the MBTE
mix was designed for catalyst equipped cars... for non-catalyst =
equipped
cars (the bulk of the Triumphs) the incompletely burned emissions =
were
actually worse for the environment.
Just another example of poorly researched "science" being foisted =
on the
American public. Don't get me started on the R-12 vs R-134 bs.
Cheers,
Jim
Dallas
-----Original Message-----
From: fot-bounces@autox.team.net =
[mailto:fot-bounces@autox.team.net] On
Behalf Of Randall
Sent: Saturday, September 13, 2008 10:02 PM
To: fot@autox.team.net
Subject: Re: [Fot] gasoline comparison
Helps the emissions (as the MTBE was supposed to do also!).
Don't kid yourself. For anything made in the last 20 years or so, =
it does
absolutely nothing for emissions, as the computer just tweaks the =
mixture
richer to compensate for the "oxygenated" fuel.
For most cars made before 1970 or so, it does make them run =
leaner, which
does reduce tailpipe emissions.
But that leaves an awful lot of cars in between with fixed =
mixtures that
were already tuned lean running on pure gasoline. And it only =
takes one=20
of
them pushed into lean misfire under cruise conditions, to emit =
more
pollution than the oxygenate could reduce in hundreds of =
pre-computer=20
cars.
Of course eventually they'll burn up the valves and so on, but =
you'd be
surprised at the number of them still running around here. And =
remember,
these are the only cars where oxygenated fuel is supposed to =
reduce
emissions at all.
And of course for Triumphs, we just adjust the mixture to suit the =
fuel,=20
so
it does no good at all.
Randall in the PRC (People's Republic of California)
_______________________________________________
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Fot@autox.team.net
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See the Internet how it was meant to be seen with Cable Internet. =
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http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2241/fc/Ioyw6i4s8kPRaDkneLj4oVQy4K=
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_______________________________________________
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Fot mailing list
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http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot
Bill Babcock
Babcock & Jenkins
Billb@bnj.com
503.936.7660
www.bnj.com
Editor
Ke Nalu e-Magazine
Paddlesurfing's Web Journal
Bill@kenalu.com
www.kenalu.com
blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog
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<STYLE></STYLE>
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<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>As I recall from another article, the =
ethanol is=20
mixed at the distributors, more or less at the end of the =
pipeline. I=20
think it had something to do with the ethanol not being good in the=20
pipeline. Plus, I think most of the ethanol plants are near the =
corn=20
(upper midwest and great plains states) and it wouldn't seem to make =
sense to=20
ship it to the refiners and then back north and east. It has been =
a pretty=20
large expense for the distributors to store and mix the ethanol as I=20
understand.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Tim</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV=20
style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
<A title=3DBillb@bnj.com href=3D"mailto:Billb@bnj.com";>Bill =
Babcock</A> </DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A =
title=3Dtimmurph@fastbytes.com=20
href=3D"mailto:timmurph@fastbytes.com";>Tim Murphy</A> </DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Cc:</B> <A =
title=3Dbritbits@netzero.com=20
href=3D"mailto:britbits@netzero.com";>britbits@netzero.com</A> ; <A=20
title=3Dfot@autox.team.net=20
href=3D"mailto:fot@autox.team.net";>fot@autox.team.net</A> </DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Sunday, September 14, =
2008 11:24=20
AM</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Fot] gasoline=20
comparison</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>And there's an ethanol shortage, that won't go away for =
a long=20
time. <BR>
<DIV>
<DIV>On Sep 14, 2008, at 8:14 AM, Tim Murphy wrote:</DIV><BR=20
class=3DApple-interchange-newline>
<BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">
<DIV>As of September 1, 2008 all gasoline must have 10% ethanol by =
Federal=20
<BR>mandate. So I was told by a Mobil distributor. As =
always, a=20
really well <BR>thought out Federal mandate. At the same time =
they=20
raise the CAFE standards <BR>they lower the MPG by mandating =
ethanol.=20
There was also a bill in Congress <BR>to increase the mandated =
percentage of ethanol. Guess which lobbying group <BR>was =
pushing that=20
bill?<BR><BR>Tim<BR>----- Original Message ----- <BR>From: "Jim" =
<<A=20
=
href=3D"mailto:britbits@netzero.com";>britbits@netzero.com</A>><BR>To: =
<<A =
href=3D"mailto:fot@autox.team.net";>fot@autox.team.net</A>><BR>Sent:=20
Saturday, September 13, 2008 10:08 PM<BR>Subject: Re: [Fot] gasoline =
comparison<BR><BR><BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">When MBTE was first proposed as an =
additive the=20
local Triumph club <BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">president<BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">did a bit of investigation.. according to =
what=20
he'd come up with the MBTE<BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">mix was designed for catalyst equipped =
cars... for=20
non-catalyst equipped<BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">cars (the bulk of the Triumphs) the =
incompletely=20
burned emissions were<BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">actually worse for the =
environment.<BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite"><BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">Just another example of poorly researched=20
"science" being foisted on the<BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">American public. Don't get me =
started on the=20
R-12 vs R-134 bs.<BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite"><BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite"><BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">Cheers,<BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite"><BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">Jim<BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">Dallas<BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite"><BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite"><BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">-----Original =
Message-----<BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">From: fot-bounces@autox.team.net [<A=20
=
href=3D"mailto:fot-bounces@autox.team.net";>mailto:fot-bounces@autox.team.=
net</A>]=20
On<BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">Behalf Of Randall<BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">Sent: Saturday, September 13, 2008 10:02=20
PM<BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">To: <A=20
=
href=3D"mailto:fot@autox.team.net";>fot@autox.team.net</A><BR></BLOCKQUOTE=
>
<BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">Subject: Re: [Fot] gasoline=20
comparison<BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite"><BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite"><BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">
<BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">Helps the emissions (as the MTBE was =
supposed to=20
do also!).<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite"><BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">Don't kid yourself. For anything =
made in the=20
last 20 years or so, it does<BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">absolutely nothing for emissions, as the =
computer=20
just tweaks the mixture<BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">richer to compensate for the "oxygenated"=20
fuel.<BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite"><BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">For most cars made before 1970 or so, it =
does make=20
them run leaner, which<BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">does reduce tailpipe =
emissions.<BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite"><BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">But that leaves an awful lot of cars in =
between=20
with fixed mixtures that<BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">were already tuned lean running on pure =
gasoline.=20
And it only takes one <BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">of<BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">them pushed into lean misfire under cruise =
conditions, to emit more<BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">pollution than the oxygenate could reduce =
in=20
hundreds of pre-computer <BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">cars.<BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">Of course eventually they'll burn up the =
valves=20
and so on, but you'd be<BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">surprised at the number of them still =
running=20
around here. And remember,<BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">these are the only cars where oxygenated =
fuel is=20
supposed to reduce<BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">emissions at all.<BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite"><BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">And of course for Triumphs, we just adjust =
the=20
mixture to suit the fuel, <BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">so<BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">it does no good at all.<BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite"><BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">Randall in the PRC (People's Republic of=20
California)<BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite"><BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
=
type=3D"cite">_______________________________________________<BR></BLOCKQ=
UOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite"><A=20
=
href=3D"http://www.team.net/donate.html";>http://www.team.net/donate.html<=
/A><BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite"><BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">Fot mailing list<BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite"><A=20
=
href=3D"mailto:Fot@autox.team.net";>Fot@autox.team.net</A><BR></BLOCKQUOTE=
>
<BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite"><A=20
=
href=3D"http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot";>http://autox.team.net=
/mailman/listinfo/fot</A><BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite"><BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite"><BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
=
type=3D"cite">___________________________________________________________=
_<BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">See the Internet how it was meant to be =
seen with=20
Cable Internet. Click <BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">Here.<BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite"><A=20
=
href=3D"http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2241/fc/Ioyw6i4s8kPRaDkneL=
j4oVQy4KpMlKptmI6g9ohyeOwa52XyPnDT4W/">http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.ne=
t/TGL2241/fc/Ioyw6i4s8kPRaDkneLj4oVQy4KpMlKptmI6g9ohyeOwa52XyPnDT4W/</A><=
BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
=
type=3D"cite">_______________________________________________<BR></BLOCKQ=
UOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite"><A=20
=
href=3D"http://www.team.net/donate.html";>http://www.team.net/donate.html<=
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type=3D"cite"><BR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>______________________________________=
_________<BR><A=20
=
href=3D"http://www.team.net/donate.html";>http://www.team.net/donate.html<=
/A><BR><BR>Fot=20
mailing=20
=
list<BR>Fot@autox.team.net<BR>http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot<=
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<DIV><SPAN class=3DApple-style-span=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 16px; COLOR: rgb(118,15,79)">Bill =
Babcock</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV=20
style=3D"WORD-WRAP: break-word; webkit-nbsp-mode: space; =
webkit-line-break: after-white-space">
<DIV=20
style=3D"WORD-WRAP: break-word; webkit-nbsp-mode: space; =
webkit-line-break: after-white-space">
<DIV>Babcock & Jenkins</DIV>
<DIV><A href=3D"mailto:Billb@bnj.com";>Billb@bnj.com</A></DIV>
<DIV>503.936.7660</DIV>
<DIV><A href=3D"http://www.bnj.com";>www.bnj.com</A></DIV>
<DIV><BR class=3Dwebkit-block-placeholder></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV><FONT class=3DApple-style-span =
color=3D#010000>Editor</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT class=3DApple-style-span color=3D#010000>Ke Nalu=20
e-Magazine</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT class=3DApple-style-span color=3D#010000><FONT =
class=3DApple-style-span=20
size=3D3><SPAN class=3DApple-style-span style=3D"FONT-SIZE: =
12px"><I>Paddlesurfing's=20
Web Journal</I></SPAN></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT class=3DApple-style-span color=3D#010000 size=3D3><SPAN=20
class=3DApple-style-span style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12px"><I><BR=20
class=3Dwebkit-block-placeholder></I></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><A href=3D"mailto:Bill@kenalu.com";>Bill@kenalu.com</A></DIV>
<DIV><A href=3D"http://www.kenalu.com";>www.kenalu.com</A></DIV>
<DIV>blog: <A=20
=
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