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Oops my bad ..
The circulation is as Bob described.
The outlet from the radiator is the bottom hose.
M
On Sat., Mar. 6, 2021, 5:51 p.m. Michael Salter, <michaelsalter@gmail.com>
wrote:
> Thanks for all that Bob.
> One comment regarding increasing the cooling system pressure.
> I rebuild quite a few Healey water pumps and can say unequivocally that
> the seal type used in both the early and late style of 6 cylinder pump wi=
ll
> not handle much more than 7 p.s.i.
> I would not recommend trying that approach.
>
> M
>
> On Sat., Mar. 6, 2021, 4:58 p.m. , <rfbegani@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Bob & Mike:
>>
>>
>>
>> You both may have seen my requests on overheating of my BJ8 and the
>> response from the group. As a result, I purchased an infrared thermomet=
er
>> to determine if my water gauge was giving accurate readings. The
>> thermometer gun told me that my water gauge was 30 degrees higher than t=
he
>> temperature of the sensor attached to the block. At the same time, I
>> noticed my gauge will show 120 degrees at rest instead of going down to =
90
>> degrees which would indicate a 30-degree high reading. In May when I le=
ave
>> for cool Michigan, I will send the gauge to Nisonger to be rebuilt.
>>
>>
>>
>> I began to test the temperature of the water going through the cooling
>> system at the inlet to and outlet from the block, inlet and outlet to th=
e
>> radiator and the upper and lower hoses while the engine is running at id=
le
>> and at 2-3 Thousand rpm. The chart I created to record these temperatur=
es
>> allowed me to produce observations or averages because the flow of the
>> water is dependent upon the rpms of the engine. The engine has overheat=
ed
>> all of the 40 years I have owned it and has only 1000 miles on the new
>> speedo since rebuilding to 20 over.
>>
>>
>>
>> At the radiator inlet 134 outlet 85 at high rpms with electric fan
>> operating.
>>
>> inlet 103 outlet 94 at idle rpms with electric
>> fan operating.
>>
>>
>>
>> The above temperatures are recorded at the inlet and all along the hoses=
.
>>
>>
>>
>> These temperatures indicate the pump is circulating water with sufficien=
t
>> gallons to cool the engine only when the engine is at high rpms. At idl=
e
>> the pump does not circulate sufficient water to keep the engine cool. T=
his
>> is especially true when you have been operating the engine at high speed
>> and come down to 30 =E2=80=93 40 mph and stop and go traffic. Maybe the=
real
>> answer is to install an electric pump for constant cooling water?
>>
>>
>>
>> In the past week, I have installed a large Dorman coolant recovery tank
>> and a new 7 psi 1 inch radiator cap because I learned that our radiators
>> have a long neck. Both those changes have reduced my problem of very hi=
gh
>> overheating and resulting boiling over. In addition, when my water gaug=
e
>> shows 212 degrees the water temperature is actually 30 degrees less or
>> approximately 185 degrees. Also, I am not boiling over and loosing
>> coolant. Nevertheless, the engine water temperature is still spiking to
>> 210 plus degrees true when coming off highway speeds.
>>
>>
>>
>> In my review of various sites, the radiator equipment suppliers and
>> others are recommending increasing the pressure in the classic car syste=
ms
>> to 15 psi plus, and coolant recovery tanks =E2=80=9Cif your coolant syst=
em,
>> radiator, hoses etc. is new=E2=80=9D and therefore can hold the pressure=
.
>> Unfortunately, I have not found any maker of a 1 inch depth x 2.33 inch
>> diameter radiator cap except our 7 psi cap so I can try such a pressuriz=
ed
>> system.
>>
>>
>>
>> Another suggestion on an older discussion at the British Car Forum
>> indicated some of the Ontario car owners had switched to Evans Waterless
>> Coolant rather than 50/50 coolant water mixture.
>>
>>
>>
>> I still have no idea why a minority of our group has overheating
>> problems. More ideas?
>>
>>
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>>
>>
>> Bob Begani 67 BJ8
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Healeys <healeys-bounces@autox.team.net> *On Behalf Of *Michael
>> Salter via Healeys
>> *Sent:* Saturday, March 6, 2021 12:20 PM
>> *To:* Bob Spidell <bspidell@comcast.net>
>> *Cc:* healeys@autox.team.net
>> *Subject:* Re: [Healeys] 100 water pumps
>>
>>
>>
>> Yes Bob, there is something wrong with our assumptions regarding the
>> cooling system not being "large" enough.
>>
>> My wifes Maxima is around 300 HP and the radiator has less area than the
>> 100. Certainly it has a couple of very effective electric fans but they
>> really don't cut in very often unless you have the AC on.
>>
>> I'm suspicious of the rate of circulation but I've talked to Larry Varle=
y
>> about this subject and he indicated that increasing the size of the wate=
r
>> pump annular orifice didn't make much difference when he tried it.
>>
>>
>>
>> M
>>
>>
>>
>> M
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Mar 6, 2021 at 11:42 AM Bob Spidell <bspidell@comcast.net> wrote=
:
>>
>> I sold my late father's 1955 Thunderbird to my BFF. These cars have a
>> very similar problem to Healeys overheating, esp. at idle. When Ford
>> stuffed the 292ci Y-Block into the T-Bird, they found the engine was
>> (essentially) too short for the long-hooded car, so they 'engineered'--I
>> use the term loosely--a cast iron spacer to move the fan closer to the
>> radiator. The spacer had the added 'benefit' of severely limiting coolan=
t
>> flow through the pump and radiator; there are some aftermarket fixes and=
my
>> friend, after doing the usual radiator re-core, better fan, etc. install=
ed
>> both a better pump (larger vanes) and a re-engineered spacer. Attached p=
ic
>> is not of the spacer he used--I can't find the link to it--but it shows =
the
>> general idea (Ford basically put a 'dam' in the cooling system to block
>> flow, and the improved spacers mostly remove it). It appears this approa=
ch
>> has improved cooling, though the engine probably still gets warm if it h=
as
>> to sit too long at idle. Link is to one of the improved pumps:
>>
>>
>> https://www.classictbird.com/Water-Pump-Modified-for-Higher-Output-1-Per=
-car/productinfo/8501HO/
>>
>> Anyways, after doing all the usual stuff to increase cooling, esp. on my
>> BJ8, I've wondered if a similar approach would work on Healeys. Their pu=
mps
>> have very small vanes, and the cavity in which the vanes operate seems
>> pretty small for such a large lump of cast iron (I'm guessing an uprated
>> radiator core won't help much if the coolant flow is still hampered; at
>> least, that's what I've found). This is probably not an option as, of
>> course, our engines don't have a similar spacer to be improved upon, and=
it
>> would be a major task to increase both the cavity's size and the pump (b=
ut
>> I can dream).
>>
>> ps. The overheating issue with Healeys is usually attributed to too big
>> of an engine in too small of an engine compartment, and too little airfl=
ow.
>> But, the engine bay in an old T-Bird is huge by comparison--and the engi=
ne
>> not terribly larger in displacement--and still suffers the same problem.
>>
>> Bob
>>
>>
>>
>>
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<div dir=3D"auto">Oops my bad ..<div dir=3D"auto">The circulation is as Bob=
described.=C2=A0</div><div dir=3D"auto">The outlet=C2=A0 from the radiator=
is the bottom hose.</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">M</=
div></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_at=
tr">On Sat., Mar. 6, 2021, 5:51 p.m. Michael Salter, <<a href=3D"mailto:=
michaelsalter@gmail.com">michaelsalter@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><b=
lockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px =
#ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"auto">Thanks for all that Bob.=C2=
=A0<div dir=3D"auto">One comment regarding increasing the cooling system pr=
essure.=C2=A0</div><div dir=3D"auto">I rebuild quite a few Healey water pum=
ps and can say unequivocally that the seal type used in both the early and =
late style of 6 cylinder pump will not handle much more than 7 p.s.i.=C2=A0=
</div><div dir=3D"auto">I would not recommend trying that approach.=C2=A0</=
div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">M</div></div><br><div cla=
ss=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Sat., Mar. 6, 2=
021, 4:58 p.m. , <<a href=3D"mailto:rfbegani@gmail.com"; target=3D"_blank=
" rel=3D"noreferrer">rfbegani@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote=
class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc soli=
d;padding-left:1ex"><div lang=3D"EN-US" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple" styl=
e=3D"word-wrap:break-word"><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-=
size:14.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">Bob & Mike:<u></u=
><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:14.0pt;f=
ont-family:"Arial",sans-serif"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p><p =
class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Arial=
",sans-serif">You both may have seen my requests on overheating of my =
BJ8 and the response from the group.=C2=A0 As a result, I purchased an infr=
ared thermometer to determine if my water gauge was giving accurate reading=
s.=C2=A0 The thermometer gun told me that my water gauge was 30 degrees hig=
her than the temperature of the sensor attached to the block.=C2=A0 At the =
same time, I noticed my gauge will show 120 degrees at rest instead of goin=
g down to 90 degrees which would indicate a 30-degree high reading.=C2=A0 I=
n May when I leave for cool Michigan, I will send the gauge to Nisonger to =
be rebuilt.<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"f=
ont-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"><u></u>=C2=A0<u><=
/u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:14.0pt;font-f=
amily:"Arial",sans-serif">I began to test the temperature of the =
water going through the cooling system at the inlet to and outlet from the =
block, inlet and outlet to the radiator and the upper and lower hoses while=
the engine is running at idle and at 2-3 Thousand rpm.=C2=A0 The chart I c=
reated to record these temperatures allowed me to produce observations or a=
verages because the flow of the water is dependent upon the rpms of the eng=
ine.=C2=A0 The engine has overheated all of the 40 years I have owned it an=
d has only 1000 miles on the new speedo since rebuilding to 20 over. <u></u=
><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:14.0pt;f=
ont-family:"Arial",sans-serif"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p><p =
class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Arial=
",sans-serif">At the radiator inlet 134 outlet 85 at high rpms with el=
ectric fan operating.<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span =
style=3D"font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">=C2=A0=
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 inlet 103 outlet =
94 at idle rpms with electric fan operating. <u></u><u></u></span></p><p cl=
ass=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Arial&q=
uot;,sans-serif"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><spa=
n style=3D"font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">The a=
bove temperatures are recorded at the inlet and all along the hoses.<u></u>=
<u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:14.0pt;fo=
nt-family:"Arial",sans-serif"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p><p c=
lass=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Arial&=
quot;,sans-serif">These temperatures indicate the pump is circulating water=
with sufficient gallons to cool the engine only when the engine is at high=
rpms.=C2=A0 At idle the pump does not circulate sufficient water to keep t=
he engine cool.=C2=A0 This is especially true when you have been operating =
the engine at high speed and come down to 30 =E2=80=93 40 mph and stop and =
go traffic.=C2=A0 Maybe the real answer is to install an electric pump for =
constant cooling water?<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><spa=
n style=3D"font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"><u></=
u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:1=
4.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">In the past week, I have in=
stalled a large Dorman coolant recovery tank and a new 7 psi 1 inch radiato=
r cap because I learned that our radiators have a long neck.=C2=A0 Both tho=
se changes have reduced my problem of very high overheating and resulting b=
oiling over.=C2=A0 In addition, when my water gauge shows 212 degrees the w=
ater temperature is actually 30 degrees less or approximately 185 degrees.=
=C2=A0 Also, I am not boiling over and loosing coolant.=C2=A0 Nevertheless,=
the engine water temperature is still spiking to 210 plus degrees true whe=
n coming off highway speeds.=C2=A0 <u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"Mso=
Normal"><span style=3D"font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-=
serif"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D=
"font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">In my review of=
various sites, the radiator equipment suppliers and others are recommendin=
g increasing the pressure in the classic car systems to 15 psi plus, and co=
olant recovery tanks =E2=80=9Cif your coolant system, radiator, hoses etc. =
is new=E2=80=9D and therefore can hold the pressure.=C2=A0 Unfortunately, I=
have not found any maker of a 1 inch depth x 2.33 inch diameter radiator c=
ap except our 7 psi cap so I can try such a pressurized system.<u></u><u></=
u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:14.0pt;font-fa=
mily:"Arial",sans-serif"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p><p class=
=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Arial"=
;,sans-serif">Another suggestion on an older discussion at the British Car =
Forum indicated some of the Ontario car owners had switched to Evans Waterl=
ess Coolant rather than 50/50 coolant water mixture.<u></u><u></u></span></=
p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"=
Arial",sans-serif"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNorma=
l"><span style=3D"font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif=
">I still have no idea why a minority of our group has overheating problems=
.=C2=A0 More ideas?<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span st=
yle=3D"font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"><u></u>=
=C2=A0<u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:14.=
0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">Regards,<u></u><u></u></span>=
</p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:14.0pt;font-family:&quo=
t;Arial",sans-serif"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNor=
mal"><span style=3D"font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-ser=
if">Bob Begani 67 BJ8 <u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span=
style=3D"font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"><u></u=
>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p><div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #e1e1e1=
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in"><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> Heale=
ys <<a href=3D"mailto:healeys-bounces@autox.team.net"; rel=3D"noreferrer =
noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">healeys-bounces@autox.team.net</a>> <b>On =
Behalf Of </b>Michael Salter via Healeys<br><b>Sent:</b> Saturday, March 6,=
2021 12:20 PM<br><b>To:</b> Bob Spidell <<a href=3D"mailto:bspidell@com=
cast.net" rel=3D"noreferrer noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">bspidell@comcast.=
net</a>><br><b>Cc:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:healeys@autox.team.net"; rel=3D"=
noreferrer noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">healeys@autox.team.net</a><br><b>S=
ubject:</b> Re: [Healeys] 100 water pumps<u></u><u></u></p></div><p class=
=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p><div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><sp=
an style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">Yes =
Bob, there is something wrong with our assumptions regarding the cooling sy=
stem not being "large" enough. </span><span style=3D"font-size:12=
.0pt"><u></u><u></u></span></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span styl=
e=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">My wifes Ma=
xima is around 300 HP and the radiator has less area than the 100. Certainl=
y it has a couple of very effective electric fans but they really don't=
cut in very often unless you have the AC on.</span><span style=3D"font-siz=
e:12.0pt"><u></u><u></u></span></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span =
style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">I'm=
suspicious of the rate of circulation but I've talked to Larry Varley =
about this subject and he indicated that increasing the size of the water p=
ump annular orifice didn't make much difference when he tried it.</span=
><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt"><u></u><u></u></span></p></div><div><p cl=
ass=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></sp=
an></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;fo=
nt-family:"Arial",sans-serif">M</span><span style=3D"font-size:12=
.0pt;font-family:"Comic Sans MS""><u></u><u></u></span></p></div>=
<div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:&qu=
ot;Comic Sans MS""><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p></div><div><p class=
=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Comic Sans=
MS"">M<u></u><u></u></span></p></div></div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u>=
</u>=C2=A0<u></u></p><div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">On Sat, Mar 6, 2021 a=
t 11:42 AM Bob Spidell <<a href=3D"mailto:bspidell@comcast.net"; rel=3D"n=
oreferrer noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">bspidell@comcast.net</a>> wrote:=
<u></u><u></u></p></div><blockquote style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid =
#cccccc 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in"=
><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:12.0pt=
;margin-left:11.4pt">I sold my late father's 1955 Thunderbird to my BFF=
. These cars have a very similar problem to Healeys overheating, esp. at id=
le. When Ford stuffed the 292ci Y-Block into the T-Bird, they found the eng=
ine was (essentially) too short for the long-hooded car, so they 'engin=
eered'--I use the term loosely--a cast iron spacer to move the fan clos=
er to the radiator. The spacer had the added 'benefit' of severely =
limiting coolant flow through the pump and radiator; there are some afterma=
rket fixes and my friend, after doing the usual radiator re-core, better fa=
n, etc. installed both a better pump (larger vanes) and a re-engineered spa=
cer. Attached pic is not of the spacer he used--I can't find the link t=
o it--but it shows the general idea (Ford basically put a 'dam' in =
the cooling system to block flow, and the improved spacers mostly remove it=
). It appears this approach has improved cooling, though the engine probabl=
y still gets warm if it has to sit too long at idle. Link is to one of the =
improved pumps:<br><br><a href=3D"https://www.classictbird.com/Water-Pump-M=
odified-for-Higher-Output-1-Per-car/productinfo/8501HO/" rel=3D"noreferrer =
noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://www.classictbird.com/Water-Pump-Modif=
ied-for-Higher-Output-1-Per-car/productinfo/8501HO/</a><br><br>Anyways, aft=
er doing all the usual stuff to increase cooling, esp. on my BJ8, I've =
wondered if a similar approach would work on Healeys. Their pumps have very=
small vanes, and the cavity in which the vanes operate seems pretty small =
for such a large lump of cast iron (I'm guessing an uprated radiator co=
re won't help much if the coolant flow is still hampered; at least, tha=
t's what I've found). This is probably not an option as, of course,=
our engines don't have a similar spacer to be improved upon, and it wo=
uld be a major task to increase both the cavity's size and the pump (bu=
t I can dream).<br><br>ps. The overheating issue with Healeys is usually at=
tributed to too big of an engine in too small of an engine compartment, and=
too little airflow. But, the engine bay in an old T-Bird is huge by compar=
ison--and the engine not terribly larger in displacement--and still suffers=
the same problem.<br><br>Bob <u></u><u></u></p></div><p class=3D"MsoNormal=
" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p></blockquote></div=
></div></div></blockquote></div>
</blockquote></div>
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Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/healeys http://autox.team.net/archive
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