List,
Here's a comment from Gene Burkland on what they did for M/T Tires when they
did the spin testing.
Interesting addition to the thread on high speed tires but no answer on
sidewall loading. Sounds from this like the Kugel Firebird/Camaro weighs
half again as much as the 411 streamliner.
Wes
----------
From: burklands411
Date: 31 Aug 2001 21:44:12 -0700
To: wester6935@home.com
Subject: Re: High Speed Tires
Wes:
We never had anything to do with Mickey Thompson's 5-year plan or the
speed rating that they put on their tires.
The thing we did for them was to spin each of the 5 sizes they produce and
record the growth amounts at various rpms from 3,500 to 8,500. These were
all no-load, free spins. We were most interested in the growth of the
tires, as weight is not a problem in our car (1,000 lbs. to 1,100 lbs. per
wheel).
Marv Rifkin (of M&H Tire Co., who actually built the tires for M/T) told
us early on that if we spun the tires fast enough their growth would lift
the Empire State Building. He didn't believe it was possible to build a
ground plane or other surface that would stop tire growth.
In the end, our tests showed that bead wires were the key factor in
holding a high-speed tire together. The aircraft tire we originally
designed our car around had 20 plies and actually self-destructed because of
the weight of those plies. The M/T tire we are now running has 4 plies and
a 7x7 bead wire -- and we have spin-tested it up to 700+mph.
I'm not sure this answers the questions posed, but might be interesting to
someone out there.
See you at the salt!
Gene
On Sun, 26 August 2001, wspotter wrote:
>
> Gene,
>
> This is a thread that concerns tires for salt flats racing and high speed
> racing on the dry lakes as well. Would you have time to reply to the
> concerns and give your opinions on the subject?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Wes Potter
>
>
> ----------
> From: wspotter <wester6935@home.com>
> Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2001 00:39:49 -0700
> To: "Bryan A. Savage Jr" <basavage@earthlink.net>
> Subject: Re: Everybody Knows That Won't Work
>
> I recently read ( and can't remember where) that for the average passenger
> tire, seven years was the service limit. The article was talking about the
> Firestone/Ford problems. Using that as a base line the requirement by MT
> for their tires to be returned after five years seems like a reasonable
> limit. I'd be interested in getting the opinion of Gene Burkland on the
> subject. He did the testing for free spinning the MT tires during the
> developmental process. I'm not sure what other loaded testing he did but
> would be interested in finding out. He reported that he "flattened a lot of
> prairie grass" in the process.
>
> If seven years is the service limit and the Firestone Bonneville tires Al
> Teague is using are from the 1960's, the extreme care he takes with those
> tires is fully understandable. Just wonder exactly how much life is left in
> those old boots. Seems like 5X service life is pretty nervous territory.
>
> I'll see if we can get Gene to respond.
>
> Wes
>
>
> on 6/25/01 9:11 AM, Bryan A. Savage Jr at basavage@earthlink.net wrote:
>
> > Yes, some very interesting things.
> > Does anyone have any idea about:
> > The speed rating of passenger car tires includes time. I.E.: 103 MPH at 1750
> > Lb.
> > for 10 minutes. What parameters are used for racing tires?
> > How do tires age and what can be done to retard aging? (store in the dark,
> > nitrogen, coat with mouse milk ????)
> > Can an old tire look good (lots of tire dressing) but be structurally
unsound
> > internally because of aging?
> > Is there a way (Attn.: drmayf) to calculate the effect of the aerodynamic
> > wedge
> > on a tire using roller bearing formulas/techniques ?
> >
> > Opinion:
> > I think the owner should be solely responsible for insuring that the tires
are
> > in good condition. The inspector can't tell if the tire has a boot in it or
> > has casing damage caused improper installation.
> >
> > Bryan Savage (who wishes he was as good at answering as asking)
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