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Re: High Speed Traction A few thoughts..

To: DrMayf <drmayf@teknett.com>
Subject: Re: High Speed Traction A few thoughts..
From: rtmack <RTMACK@pop3.concentric.net>
Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2001 20:39:56 -0600
Mayf:
interesting theory, doctor!  I think that some were definitely having traction
problems that were not hydroplaning-- because they were digging-in, not riding
the surface (not "planing").  However, there was one very lightweight car (that 
I
can identify, from the front tireprints) that was definitely wandering a lot--
and the back tire tracks were faint.  I have heard since then that the team was
having difficulty getting the car to "hook-up" on the "big-end".  I wonder if
they might have been "hydroplaning", as you call it.  I think it is possible 
that
the cars with not a lot of downforce (relative to area of the footprint of the
drive tires) may be doing something like that.  That might also explain why the
cars whose drive tires are not "digging trenches" seem to leave tracks that
wander around more-- if they are "hydroplaning", they get batted-around with
every little gust, every little bump.
But that particular car was only in the 250mph range, so tire centrifugal growth
(shrinking the footprint--??) would not be so much a factor as with the 
big-power
guys.  As a matter of  fact, I think the "shrinking the footprint" part doesn't
relate to increased hydroplaning tendancy: given the same tread pattern (and
depth), the same vehicle, and the same tire pressure-- a wider tire will
hydroplane (on wet pavement, anyway) quicker than a narrower one.  The narrower
tire tends to "cut-through" the water (or salt??) like a V-bottom boat, while 
the
wider tire acts more like a ...well, more like a hydroplane.  Note the 
difference
in the "rain tires" on the F-1 cars.  They are narrower (as well as having deep
tread).
But the disfiguration of the tire cross section due to centrifugal force-- 
and/or
the action of the centrifugal force against the salt surface-- could be
contributing to the problem in some other way.  Is the centrifugal force trying
to push the car away from the surface?  That is-- is the centrifugal force of 
the
tire "countering" (to some degree) the downforce (whether aero, or ballast) 
built
into the cars?  What do you think about that possibility, Mayf?
Russ


DrMayf wrote:

> Dan, hit your delete key now! Don't want you to get bored..lol
>
> I wonder if the car tires are hydroplaning? That is at high speeds, the
> tires are expanding and becoming pretty rigid from centrifugal force on the
> outer plys. This makes for a pretty small foot print I suspect. Add to that
> there is loose salt on the hard stuff. So I think that the tires could
> possible hydroplaning or skating on the loose salt. Why? Well, have you eve
> driven in sand? Go slow and you sink, but go faster and you skate across.
> Add a bit of moisture and maybe the "hydroplaning" get even more so. Anyway
> to test this?
>
> just a question...
>
> mayf, the red necked ignorant desert rat in Pahrump...

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