How about "FFRAP" (frap) for Factory Five Racing A Prepared?
Make mine a big block and don't stop at 7 liters.
Rick
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-ba-autox@autox.team.net
[mailto:owner-ba-autox@autox.team.net]On Behalf Of Chris Cox
Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2003 8:34 PM
To: 'James Creasy'; 'Charles Cox'; 'Scot Zediker'; 'ba-autox'; Rick
Brown
Subject: Re: Fear and Loathing in AP
Watching the AP FFR Cobras this weekend I couldn't figure out why there are
not 10 of these
thing running at Nationals. They are cheap to build,(relatively) very fast,
and look very cool.
It seems like a perfect Prepared car. Kind of like the cookie cutter P car.
I bet FFR could
implement a lot of the suspension mods the Bordens have made to there car
and
sell it as
an "R" package car. Or would it be a FFRR.
Chris
----- Original Message -----
From: Rick Brown
To: 'James Creasy' ; 'Charles Cox' ; 'Scot Zediker' ; 'ba-autox'
Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2003 6:45 PM
Subject: RE: Fear and Loathing in AP
In AP, with 16x10/16x12 wheels, a FFR Cobra needs to weigh 2200/2255 if
under 5.1 liters and 2420/2475 if over 5.1. Replica Cobras run the tube
frame weight.
An original Cobra like Bruce Cambern's 427 (7 Liter) could run at 2200
pounds but I can't get Bruce to take a Saws-all to it to properly lighten
it
up.
--- Rick Brown
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-ba-autox@autox.team.net
[mailto:owner-ba-autox@autox.team.net]On Behalf Of James Creasy
Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2003 4:52 PM
To: Charles Cox; Scot Zediker; ba-autox
Subject: Re: Fear and Loathing in AP
>FFR Cobra shows the stock (dry)weight at 2,305# so I can only assume if
you
>can get the Miata to 1750# you should easily be able to get the FFR from
>2305 to 2000#, right?)
2305 is pretty heavy for an FFR with a small block, even with a full tank
of
gas. most of them weigh in between 2100 and 2200. the later ones are a
little heavier but lots stiffer. mine is going on a diet, i figure i can
strip out about 125-150 lbs without compromising streetability or
maintenance. thats with keeping the glass windshield.
the lightest one i know of is 1850 lbs, sporting a 600hp motor as i recall
too. giddyup!
james
----- Original Message -----
From: "Charles Cox" <charles@coastalbay.com>
To: "Scot Zediker" <roadsterboy@earthlink.net>; "ba-autox"
<ba-autox@autox.team.net>
Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2003 4:27 PM
Subject: Re: Fear and Loathing in AP
> Wheels for both classes are now the same (I believe). They originally
set
> out to reduce the DP wheels to a maximum diameter of 13" from the
previous
> 15" (I won't comment) but as I recall, they have reconsidered and both
> classes are now at 15X7...were always both at the same width and there
is
a
> better selection in the 13" diameter tires.
>
> Induction isn't unlimited, carburetion or fuel injection is. That limits
you
> to naturally aspirated engines which is the same as CSP. It has been
shown
> in CSP that Individual throttle bodies don't show significant enough
power
> to make that much difference compared running "stock" fuel injection, so
the
> power difference between an AP and DP engine is insignificant.
>
> Regarding the weight of an AP Miata...I think your statement is similar
to
> what the SEB thought. What seems to have been missed is that all Miatas
in
> subsequent years gained weight and you have to consider all the cars,
not
> just one or two light years of car bodies. This is not just due to
luxury
> features but a lot of it is due to the strengthening of the car. In my
> opinion, there is no way to get the car to the indicated minimum weight
> safely without sacrificing some structural integrity, particularly if
using
> any of the M2 chassis which should have been and you should take
> consideration of. Take a look at a DP Miata (when you can now find one)
and
> try to find where you can take 425# off of it.
>
> I'm not sure what scales you used to weigh your car but I don't see how
it
> could be close to 1750# when most CSP competitors I know are around
> #1,900-1,950 pound range (some a bit less if taking out the soft
top...no
> A/C, etc.) so I'm not sure how you could have gotten lighter than most
of
> them but if in that range, try taking 150-200# out of your car, even
taking
> out the interior (or 350# as allowed by the rules for a 1.6)...you'll be
> surprised how difficult (and expensive) it really is...I've done it, I
know.
>
> If yours is a '91 then the minimum weight in AP is 1600# or would you
want
> to run the 1.6 at the 1.8 weight...think about it. The reason the cars
are
> different weights is because the earlier 1.6 Miatas weigh less to start
> with. They are not as structurally strong as the later cars and
consequently
> weigh less.
>
> Mine is 2300# and that is light for an M2. Yes you can gut and cut off
the
> windshield but if you put a cage in the car, the weight from window and
> frame is a trade off, maybe even more with the cage but required to
stiffen
> the car. It just can't be safely and cost-effectively done properly
without
> compromises based on my experience. Yes you can start with replacing all
the
> body parts available in Carbon Fiber, build your own control arms out of
> alloy...etc...yes you could probably get the car to the weight but at
what
> cost? The rule book states: "Minimum weights shall be established making
it
> possible for all cars to reach minimum weight with reasonable
modifications.
> The SEB recognizes that low minimum weights ultimately result in higher
> costs to the competitor." With that in mind, it is my opinion that the
SEB
> ignored this part of the rules when putting the Miata in AP as they did
or
> don't care what it costs. That being said, I have heard a rumor of one
> competitor that is getting close to the 1750# for the 1.8
limit...although
I
> haven't verified it.
>
> Do you think placing 1750# (even if achievable) 190HP (maybe) Miatas
with
> 7X15" wheels against 2000# (listed minimum weight for up to 5.1 L)
Cobras
> with 500+ hp (and boo-coo torque) and 10X16" wheels seem equitable in
the
> same class...I don't think so...the numbers don't compute to me.
>
> (My Miata lists the weight at 2,447# stock. It actually weighed more.
The
> FFR Cobra shows the stock (dry)weight at 2,305# so I can only assume if
you
> can get the Miata to 1750# you should easily be able to get the FFR from
> 2305 to 2000#, right?)
>
> Maybe that is why you don't see any AP Miatas around....at least I
> haven't...
>
> Charles
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Scot Zediker" <roadsterboy@earthlink.net>
> To: "Charles Cox" <charles@coastalbay.com>; "ba-autox"
> <ba-autox@autox.team.net>
> Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2003 12:44 PM
> Subject: Fear and Loathing in AP
>
>
> > Miatas are now listed in both AP and DP. For AP, you get larger
wheels
> > (same as it used to run in DP, IIRC), unrestricted induction and a
miimum
> > weight impossible to achieve without compromising the car's structural
> > integrity.
> >
> > For DP, you get tiny wheels, minimum weight barely below what the car
> weighs
> > stock (my daily-driver '91 is already close to min for a 1.8L car,
with
a
> > full interior!), and your choice of stock FI or carburetors.
> >
> >
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Scot Zediker" <roadsterboy@earthlink.net>
> To: "Charles Cox" <charles@coastalbay.com>; "ba-autox"
> <ba-autox@autox.team.net>
> Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2003 12:44 PM
> Subject: Fear and Loathing in AP
>
>
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Charles Cox" <charles@coastalbay.com>
> > To: "ba-autox" <ba-autox@autox.team.net>
> > Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2003 6:36 AM
> > Subject: Re: FFR in AP
> >
> >
> > > Maybe they could add a ca-jillion pounds, mandate smaller wheels and
run
> > in
> > > DP. It works for the Miata which is an AP car, right?
> >
> > Miatas are now listed in both AP and DP. For AP, you get larger
wheels
> > (same as it used to run in DP, IIRC), unrestricted induction and a
miimum
> > weight impossible to achieve without compromising the car's structural
> > integrity.
> >
> > For DP, you get tiny wheels, minimum weight barely below what the car
> weighs
> > stock (my daily-driver '91 is already close to min for a 1.8L car,
with
a
> > full interior!), and your choice of stock FI or carburetors.
|