Alan,
Nissan is producing a car the majority of the people in the world want. They
want a sports car that doesn't beat them to death when going on trips and
other amenities like ABS, a/c, airbags, cc, pw, pm, ps and a host of other
things.
The only car I know made that suits your vision of what a sports car is is
the Lotus Elise and it's not widely available or allowed to be imported into
the US. A series 1 Miata base car is about as close as it gets for a mass
produced car to be a sports car in your eyes.
For those who want a "true" sports car as you define it, is to buy a kit car
like a knock off of a Lotus 7 but that car is not very practicle except for
short trips as there's no room for luggage and the like and it's weather
protection leaves much to be desired.
By the end of the 60s people were fed up with noisy, draughty, leaking,
difficult to erect convertibles (except for Alfas and Fiats) which is one of
the reasons the 240 was so successful. It was light - 2400lbs, fairly quick
for its time, affordable, reliable and handled well. What happened to the Z
as time rolled on was terrible and it soon became a boulevardier rather than
a sports car.
It's 2002 and technology and peoples tastes change. I bet that new Z will
out perform any car from the 60s, well almost any car. And while the pure
visceral experience may have been dulled somewhat as compared to 60s sports
cars, I'll take the dullness rather than have to put up with what we put up
with in 60s cars.
While I love my Roadster I also like more refinement when I drive a car
day-in-day-out and on long trips. Maybe I've gotten soft in my older age but
I don't think I'd want to go buy a new car with a 60s feel. I think the
definition of "sports car" has evolved over the course of the years to
reflect technology and comfort evolution. I expect more and I think so do
others.
Mike
----- Original Message -----
From: "Alan Bent" <ajb@squirrel.com.au>
To: "Alex Avery" <aavery@rica.net>
Cc: <datsun-roadsters@autox.team.net>
Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2002 11:29 AM
Subject: Re: 350Z: awful or artful
> One point we are all missing here is that all Z cars are just 2 door
taxis. The
> last true sports car built by Nissan was built in the 1960s. Z car guys
try to
> tell you things like the fact that Z cars outsold the Roadsters indicated
that the
> Z was a better sports car, what they fail to have noticed is that the all
the Z
> proved was that people no longer wanted true sports cars, all they wanted
was
> comfy fat boulevard cruisers. A true sports car is by definition a
lightweight
> sporting car whose design emphasis is on handling, something that is
challenging,
> rewarding and fun to drive. A sports car in it's purest form is something
like a
> series 1,2 or 3 Lotus 7.
> Certainly there was still some element of 'sports car' in the 240Z, but
the older
> the Z got the less of a sports car it became. And now we come to the 350Z,
a pair
> of reclining lounge chairs on 4 wheels, fat and bloated, stuffed to the
brim with
> driver aids like ABS, power steering, ridiculously over-powered power
brakes,
> etc., etc., all designed to make it easier and softer to drive, but
ultimately
> less rewarding and less fun to drive. What Nissan have created is the
Anti-Sports
> Car, this is a car that is everything a true sports car shouldn't be.
> Z cars are fine cruisers, I actually owned a 300ZX a while back and it was
the
> best long distance cruiser I have ever seen, but present it with a nice
twisty bit
> of road and it's limitations were obvious. Zs need to be judged for what
they are,
> comparing them to a sports car achieves nothing. Unfortunately only Honda
and
> Mazda build anything close to a real sports car these days.
> Bruce Willis said it best in 'Pulp Fiction', "Z's dead baby!".
> Time to stop wasting breath talking about Nissan's new plastic pose-mobile
and get
> back to talking about real sports cars.
> My 2 cents worth. (Australian currency that is, worth about 1 cent
American)
> Alan Bent - Mapleton, Queensland, Australia
> 1964 Datsun Fairlady 4-SP310-00134 (real sports car !)
> 1966 Datsun Fairlady SP311-00925 (real sports car !)
> 1966 Datsun Fairlady SP311-01060 (real sports car !)
> 1963 Nissan Cedric G31-3-07024 (4 door Z car)
> 1962 Datsun 320 Pick-Up 320-2-00677 (Z car with a big trunk)
> 1965 Nissan Silvia CSP311-70231
> 1963 Datsun Bluebird P312-3-32984
> 1963 Datsun Bluebird P312-3-39741
> 1964 Nissan Cedric Wagon 4-WP31-50620 (5 door Z wagon)
> 1964 Nissan Cedric Wagon 4-WP31-51579
> 1965 Datsun Bluebird Wagon WP410-
> 1965 Datsun Bluebird P411-021358 (designed by Pininfarina, just
like a
> Ferrari)
> 1969 Datsun Super Six G130-005415
> 1972 Hodaka Wombat 125 Motorbike (a one cylinder Z car)
> 1988 John Deere 755 Tractor (the source of many styling
cues for
> the new Z)
> Early Datsun Homepage http://www.geocities.com/olddat
> Nissan Silvia Homepage http://www.angelfire.com/ns/silvia
> Planet Cedric http://nav.to/planetcedric
> Datsun Sports Owners http://DSOAnews.tripod.com/index.html
>
> Alex Avery wrote:
>
> > Marc, sorry to disagree with you so vehemently, but you started thisk,
so
> > here goes.
> > Marc wrote:
> > >A designer looking to develop a new Z could have come up with the 350Z
or the
> > >Aston Martin DB7 ... One is cheap, immature, overdone, and flashy. It
> > panders to a
> > >"target" audience. The other is elegant, stylish, refined, and a true
styling
> > >achievement.
> >
> > Posh! I like the DB7, but I'm liking the 350Z quite a bit at this
> > point--it's a decent evolution of the Z car lineage (FYI--I hated the
350Z
> > design when it was first unveiled). The fact that the design revolted
me
> > at first but is now winning me over shows that it is a fresh design,
much
> > like the Ford Taurus was revolting when it was the first "bubble car"
out
> > there, but now looks "normal" and pleasing. (anyone else remember that
> > period in the early 80s?)
> >
> > >that the 350Z is "targeting children and
> > >teens, the other targets adults. Nissan has shown its true colors in
this
> > >effort, as far as I am concerned, pandering to style instead of
creating
> > it. The
> > >pricing reinforces this idea, being price pointed to the demographics
of the
> > >target audience."
> >
> > Ok, so the 350Z is now the Joe Camel of the car world? What, Nissan
should
> > commit Hari Kari by building another stupidly expensive sports car that
> > nobody will buy or can afford? The pricing is, in fact, an attempt to
> > return to the Z cars lower-priced GT roots not to mention return Nissan
to
> > profitability(or do you forget that the 240Zs sold for under $4k back in
> > 1970? Was Nissan 'pandering' to teens back then?) Besides, to compare
any
> > Nissan with any Aston Martin is absurd. They exist in completely
different
> > car buying universes. Apples and oranges.
> >
> > >When the 240Z came out it made a bold statement and set style trends
for a
> > >generation. This new 350Z is doing none of that. It is following style
trends
> > >set by others and trying to cash in on the Z name, period. It is just
another
> > >video-game car. Luckily for it, "the emperor's new clothes" syndrome is
still
> > >alive and well.
> >
> > The 240Z robbed plenty of cars for styling cues (Toyota 2000GT,
Ferraris,
> > Jaguars). It wasn't that bold a design. What was bold was selling a
great
> > looking coupe that performed great and didn't cost an arm and a leg.
That
> > is the Z car's legacy, and a legacy that Nissan forgot when it was
making
> > that last, bloated Z thing that cost $50,000 and didn't give back $50k
in
> > performance. I think the new Z is evolutionary and I for one am
beginning
> > to covet them.
> >
> > Just MY $0.02
> > Alex Avery
> >
> > /// datsun-roadsters@autox.team.net mailing list
> > /// Send admin requests to majordomo@autox.team.net or go to
> > /// http://www.team.net/cgi-bin/majorcool
> > /// Send list postings to datsun-roadsters@autox.team.net
>
> /// datsun-roadsters@autox.team.net mailing list
> /// Send admin requests to majordomo@autox.team.net or go to
> /// http://www.team.net/cgi-bin/majorcool
> /// Send list postings to datsun-roadsters@autox.team.net
/// datsun-roadsters@autox.team.net mailing list
|