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Re: [FOT] Sway Bars

To: <fot@autox.team.net>
Subject: Re: [FOT] Sway Bars
From: <triumph_marx@freenet.de>
Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2006 15:25:35 +0200
That could make the difference....stiff springs.
I have the softest springrates of our group to have control at the bumpy 
Nordschleife track.

I am always amazed about the difference how the same type of car performs with 
complete different setup.
When I was driving behind that blue TR4 I saw him lifting the inner front wheel 
and he was drifing the same time.
I thought by myself....what kind of fun do I miss when I don't setup my car 
like the car in front of me.
It was great watching him to slide around the corners. My don't slide much but 
when... a spin out is short to come ;-)

My car don't eat up tires. I have done, besides the 3 events, about 2000mls 
road traffic on the wheels and still 4mm thread.

The only thing I am fiddeling with is tire pressure. 
The front runners have a lot more pressure than me....
I was running on 31.5/28.5. Their pressur was 34.5/31.5.

Some mysteries going on...

Chris



----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Tony Drews" <tony@tonydrews.com>
To: <fot@autox.team.net>
Sent: Wednesday, October 25, 2006 2:36 PM
Subject: RE: [FOT] Sway Bars


> In a TR-4, solid axle, in my experience the use of a rear bar depends 
> on the type of limited slip diff as well as spring rates.  Plus, if 
> you've improved the front suspension geometry everything changes, 
> probably.  With a Quaffe LSD, keeping both rear tires on the ground 
> is vitally important.  We ended up removing the rear bar primarily to 
> keep the inside rear on the ground.  We were loosing more speed by 
> lifting a wheel than we could have gained by the improved 
> handling.  What we then discovered is that due to the funky roll 
> centers of the TR-4 fitting a really large front bar actually made 
> the car rotate better through the corner.  The conventional wisdom is 
> that increasing the front spring rate - either with springs or sway 
> bar - will increase understeer.  That's not entirely true in the 
> solid axle TR-4.  We have stiffer front springs and an extra leaf in 
> the rear.  Babcock's explanation finally made the light bulb go off 
> in my head, and it explains the pictures we have of our cars with the 
> inside front tire hiked up in the air.
> 
> My car (John Lye's former autocrosser) came with a substantial rear 
> bar, a substantial front bar and stiffer springs all around.  It also 
> has a detroit locker in a non-triumph rear axle.  I also found at the 
> last race that all of the corner weights are within 5 lbs of each 
> other with half a tank of gas.  I'm sure it rotated VERY nicely on 
> the auto-x course!  When I had it at speed at Road America, I had 
> this wonderful sideways drift / slide through all of the corners - 
> but was giving up like 5 sec / lap.  I disconnected the rear bar and 
> it still tends to oversteer, but is about perfect.  The locker acts 
> like a welded diff when ON the power and kinda like an open diff when 
> OFF the power.  You can still roll the car around, and turn-in under 
> braking is like an open diff.  I tend to be on the gas hard well 
> before the apex and kinda dirt track it through the corner.  But I 
> don't seem have that welded diff initial understeer to overcome.
> 
> There's also the soft spring / stiff sway bar school of thought - I 
> haven't traveled that path so can't comment on what you need to do 
> with sway bars if you don't hike the spring rates.  Also, haven't 
> tried tuning a car with a Salisbury LSD.
> 
> - Tony



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