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Re: [FOT] Sway Bars

To: wgrosenbach@juno.com, tony@tonydrews.com
Subject: Re: [FOT] Sway Bars
From: JWoesvra@aol.com
Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2006 19:26:34 EDT
Hey guys,
 
Just to show you how wives can take things wrong; my wife was looking over  
my shoulder and wanted to know why I was getting all these emails about "sway  
bars".
 
Apparently she thought that I was into some kind of weird bar scene!
 
Be careful out there. You know, email never really disappears. It just  grows 
and lingers!
 
Jack Woehrle
 
 
 
In a message dated 10/25/2006 1:49:10 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,  wgrosenba
ch@juno.com writes:

Bill

On Wed, 25 Oct 2006 07:36:36 -0500 Tony Drews  <tony@tonydrews.com>
writes:
> In a TR-4, solid axle, in my  experience the use of a rear bar depends 
> 
> on the type of  limited slip diff as well as spring rates.  Plus, if 
> 
>  you've improved the front suspension geometry everything changes, 
>  probably.  With a Quaffe LSD, keeping both rear tires on the ground  
> 
> is vitally important.  We ended up removing the rear  bar primarily 
> to 
> keep the inside rear on the ground.   We were loosing more speed by 
> lifting a wheel than we could have  gained by the improved 
> handling.  What we then discovered is  that due to the funky roll 
> centers of the TR-4 fitting a really large  front bar actually made 
> the car rotate better through the  corner.  The conventional wisdom 
> is 
> that increasing the  front spring rate - either with springs or sway 
> 
> bar - will  increase understeer.  That's not entirely true in the 
> solid axle  TR-4.  We have stiffer front springs and an extra leaf in 
>  
> the rear.  Babcock's explanation finally made the light bulb go  off 
> 
> in my head, and it explains the pictures we have of our  cars with 
> the 
> inside front tire hiked up in the air.
>  
> My car (John Lye's former autocrosser) came with a substantial rear  
> 
> bar, a substantial front bar and stiffer springs all  around.  It 
> also 
> has a detroit locker in a non-triumph  rear axle.  I also found at 
> the 
> last race that all of  the corner weights are within 5 lbs of each 
> other with half a tank of  gas.  I'm sure it rotated VERY nicely on 
> the auto-x  course!  When I had it at speed at Road America, I had 
> this  wonderful sideways drift / slide through all of the corners - 
> but was  giving up like 5 sec / lap.  I disconnected the rear bar and 
>  
> it still tends to oversteer, but is about perfect.  The locker  acts 
> 
> like a welded diff when ON the power and kinda like an  open diff 
> when 
> OFF the power.  You can still roll the  car around, and turn-in under 
> 
> braking is like an open  diff.  I tend to be on the gas hard well 
> before the apex and  kinda dirt track it through the corner.  But I 
> don't seem have  that welded diff initial understeer to overcome.
> 
> There's also  the soft spring / stiff sway bar school of thought - I 
> 
>  haven't traveled that path so can't comment on what you need to do 
>  with sway bars if you don't hike the spring rates.  Also, haven't  
> tried tuning a car with a Salisbury LSD.
> 
> -  Tony



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