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Dale,
The insurance-required waiver does not seem to be your main issue. All Covi=
d19-related procedures are at the behest of the state and the track owner a=
nd are required to be enforced by the sponsoring clubs. No track owner or c=
lub can take a chance on being found to operate illegally. None of us have =
a choice in this matter, there is no negotiation involved (esp. since sched=
ules are overfilled): you can follow track rules or not have an event. If y=
ou are going racing this year, you are going to find new constraints everyw=
here in the country. The VSCDA Covid document closely mirrors SCCA, Midwest=
ern Council, AMA and SVRA guidelines.=20
Gary
On Sunday, May 17, 2020, 5:56:27 PM CDT, Dale Oesterle <dale.oesterle@s=
bcglobal.net> wrote: =20
=20
The extra stuff in the waiver matters. A straightforward wavier waves negl=
igence claims (not claims gross negligence, recklessness or intentional mis=
conduct, depending on the state). A straightforward assumption of risk is a=
n acknowledgement that a participant is willingly and consensually taking a=
higher than normal risk. =C2=A0Both are accepted in the courts. Lawyers us=
e the extra language in an attempt to add, subtly, more layers of liability=
protection when general law on waivers applies (i.e., there is no broader =
exemption statute such as those in Colorado for ski lifts). =C2=A0Moreover,=
the contractual provisions on virus procedures should be in a separate con=
tract =E2=80=94 not in the waiver=E2=80=94 with remedies specified for brea=
ches. =C2=A0The language just confuses people and makes insurance negotiati=
ons more complicated.
Dale Oesterle- Sent from iPad
On May 17, 2020, at 4:52 PM, Gary Schneider <garygret@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
=EF=BB=BF I understand and sympathize with the waiver text concern - certai=
nly no insurance company will ever write an under-broad one - but it appear=
s to be ~95% identical to the waiver we've been signing for many years. I h=
ad a 2014 BFR form deep in the files and scanned it to the attached PDF, al=
ong with the current waiver I just received from BFR Cindy. The footnote "2=
/09" seems to imply it goes back over a decade. I don't have the text memor=
ized but I believe the RA waiver is the same form.
I've been a steward for maybe 20 years and our choice as race organizers ha=
s always been binary: all sign the waiver or no insurance is provided. The =
track owners have no more choice in this than we do. Although the language =
is draconian, it is a given we have accepted to participate in our sport.=
=20
Gary
On Saturday, May 16, 2020, 10:23:16 PM CDT, Dale Oesterle via Fot <fot@=
autox.team.net> wrote: =20
=20
The waiver is legally over- broad [see, e.g., the =E2=80=9Cor otherwise la=
nguage=E2=80=9D] hoping a court will scale it back and apply it to the maxi=
mum extent the law permits. =C2=A0[see the last section]. It is a drafting =
trick. Waivers usually cannot a apply to reckless or intentional misconduct=
(and in some states cannot apply to =E2=80=9Cgross negligence=E2=80=9D). =
=C2=A0Moreover, the waiver in section 1 gives an immediate defense to all d=
efendants (=E2=80=9Creleasees=E2=80=9D) on the basis that the signer =E2=80=
=9Cfe[lt] unsafe=E2=80=9D (whatever that means) at some time before any inj=
ury and still participated [or did not give notice]. This is a trial lawyer=
=E2=80=99s delight and, at minimum, will cause defense counsel to delay set=
tlement until the edge of trial, running up litigation expenses, until ever=
y statement of the plaintiff pre-injury has been collected and parsed. =C2=
=A0If you sign this, do not talk to anybody (even in jest) about race or tr=
ack conditions till your car is on the trailer and off the premises. =C2=A0=
Other language gives a defense based on your non-disclosure of any virus sy=
mptoms; if you cough or have nausea (probably nerves and a crummy hot dog) =
you had better tell race organizers and they will have no choice but to esc=
ort you out. =C2=A0
Dale Oesterle- Sent from iPad
On May 16, 2020, at 1:30 PM, John Styduhar via Fot <fot@autox.team.net> wro=
te:
=EF=BB=BFThe Blackhawk Farms liability waiver is worth a review and comment=
by one of our=C2=A0 FOT racing attorneys.=C2=A0 Not=C2=A0 your standard fo=
rm we never read.=C2=A0
On Fri, May 15, 2020 at 4:43 PM Gary Schneider <garygret@sbcglobal.net> wro=
te:
VSCDA is still planning on the Blackhawk Classic June 19-21. Blackhawk is =
opening May 30 and I've been in touch with the track and the race chair.
Also the Midwestern Council Driver's School at BFR is firm for July 4, VSCD=
A & SCCA participants welcome.
Gary SchneiderMidwestern Council Chief Steward for Blackhawk Classic
On Friday, May 15, 2020, 2:23:39 PM CDT, John H. Hasty via Fot <fot@aut=
ox.team.net> wrote: =20
=20
<BFR Adult single sided waiver smaller.pdf><2014 BFR Waiver.pdf>
=20
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Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<html><head></head><body><div class=3D"ydpea8d9655yahoo-style-wrap" style=
=3D"font-family:Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;font-size:16px=
;" dir=3D"ltr" data-setdir=3D"false"><div></div><div dir=3D"ltr" data-setdi=
r=3D"false">Dale,</div><div dir=3D"ltr" data-setdir=3D"false"><br></div><di=
v dir=3D"ltr" data-setdir=3D"false">The insurance-required waiver does not =
seem to be your main issue. All Covid19-related procedures are at the behes=
t of the state and the track owner and are required to be enforced by the s=
ponsoring clubs. No track owner or club can take a chance on being found to=
operate illegally. None of us have a choice in this matter, there is no ne=
gotiation involved (esp. since schedules are overfilled): you can follow tr=
ack rules or not have an event. If you are going racing this year, you are =
going to find new constraints everywhere in the country. The <a href=3D"htt=
ps://vscda.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/05/2020-Covid-Procedures-FINAL.pdf" =
rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank">VSCDA</a> Covid document closely mirrors=
<a href=3D"https://www.scca.com/pages/covid-19-event-guidelines"; rel=3D"no=
follow" target=3D"_blank" class=3D"">SCCA</a>, <a href=3D"https://www.mcscc=
.org/covid-19/" rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank" class=3D"">Midwestern Co=
uncil</a>, <a href=3D"https://info.motorsportreg.com/en/covid-19-event-guid=
elines" rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank" class=3D"">AMA </a> and SVRA gui=
delines. <br></div><div><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr" data-setdir=3D"false">Ga=
ry<br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div>
=20
</div><div id=3D"ydp60e9f3b4yahoo_quoted_0543459595" class=3D"ydp60=
e9f3b4yahoo_quoted">
<div style=3D"font-family:'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, s=
ans-serif;font-size:13px;color:#26282a;">
=20
<div>
On Sunday, May 17, 2020, 5:56:27 PM CDT, Dale Oesterle =
<dale.oesterle@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
</div>
<div><br></div>
<div><br></div>
<div><div id=3D"ydp60e9f3b4yiv4290732478"><div><div dir=3D"=
ltr"></div></div><div>The extra stuff in the waiver matters. A straightforw=
ard wavier waves negligence claims (not claims gross negligence, recklessne=
ss or intentional misconduct, depending on the state). A straightforward as=
sumption of risk is an acknowledgement that a participant is willingly and =
consensually taking a higher than normal risk. Both are accepted in t=
he courts. Lawyers use the extra language in an attempt to add, subtly, mor=
e layers of liability protection when general law on waivers applies (i.e.,=
there is no broader exemption statute such as those in Colorado for ski li=
fts). Moreover, the contractual provisions on virus procedures should=
be in a separate contract =E2=80=94 not in the waiver=E2=80=94 with remedi=
es specified for breaches. The language just confuses people and make=
s insurance negotiations more complicated.<br clear=3D"none"><br clear=3D"n=
one"><div dir=3D"ltr">Dale Oesterle<div>- Sent from iPad</div></div><div di=
r=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"ydp60e9f3b4yiv4290732478yqt6877140378" id=3D"ydp60e=
9f3b4yiv4290732478yqtfd78411"><br clear=3D"none"><blockquote type=3D"cite">=
On May 17, 2020, at 4:52 PM, Gary Schneider <garygret@sbcglobal.net> =
wrote:<br clear=3D"none"><br clear=3D"none"></blockquote></div></div><block=
quote type=3D"cite"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"ydp60e9f3b4yiv4290732478=
yqt6877140378" id=3D"ydp60e9f3b4yiv4290732478yqtfd40066">=EF=BB=BF<div clas=
s=3D"ydp60e9f3b4yiv4290732478ydp414d2634yahoo-style-wrap" style=3D"font-fam=
ily:Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;font-size:16px;"><div></di=
v>
<div dir=3D"ltr">I understand and sympathize with the waiver text c=
oncern - certainly no insurance company will ever write an under-broad one =
- but it appears to be ~95% identical to the waiver we've been signing for =
many years. I had a 2014 BFR form deep in the files and scanned it to the a=
ttached PDF, along with the current waiver I just received from BFR Cindy. =
The footnote "2/09" seems to imply it goes back over a decade. I don't have=
the text memorized but I believe the RA waiver is the same form.<br clear=
=3D"none"></div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br clear=3D"none"></div><div dir=3D"ltr">=
I've been a steward for maybe 20 years and our choice as race organizers ha=
s always been binary: all sign the waiver or no insurance is provided. The =
track owners have no more choice in this than we do. Although the language =
is draconian, it is a given we have accepted to participate in our sport. <=
br clear=3D"none"></div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br clear=3D"none"></div><div dir=
=3D"ltr">Gary<br clear=3D"none"></div><div><br clear=3D"none"></div>
=20
</div></div><div class=3D"ydp60e9f3b4yiv4290732478ydpb4741896yahoo_=
quoted" id=3D"ydp60e9f3b4yiv4290732478ydpb4741896yahoo_quoted_9785022475"><=
div class=3D"ydp60e9f3b4yiv4290732478yqt6877140378" id=3D"ydp60e9f3b4yiv429=
0732478yqtfd53625">
</div><div style=3D"font-family:'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Ar=
ial, sans-serif;font-size:13px;color:#26282a;"><div class=3D"ydp60e9f3b4yiv=
4290732478yqt6877140378" id=3D"ydp60e9f3b4yiv4290732478yqtfd33959">
=20
<div>
On Saturday, May 16, 2020, 10:23:16 PM CDT, Dale Oester=
le via Fot <fot@autox.team.net> wrote:
</div>
<div><br clear=3D"none"></div>
<div><br clear=3D"none"></div>
</div><div><div id=3D"ydp60e9f3b4yiv4290732478ydpb4741896yi=
v0483641789"><div class=3D"ydp60e9f3b4yiv4290732478yqt6877140378" id=3D"ydp=
60e9f3b4yiv4290732478yqtfd86508"><div>The waiver is legally over- broad [se=
e, e.g., the =E2=80=9Cor otherwise language=E2=80=9D] hoping a court will s=
cale it back and apply it to the maximum extent the law permits. [see=
the last section]. It is a drafting trick. Waivers usually cannot a apply =
to reckless or intentional misconduct (and in some states cannot apply to =
=E2=80=9Cgross negligence=E2=80=9D). Moreover, the waiver in section =
1 gives an immediate defense to all defendants (=E2=80=9Creleasees=E2=80=9D=
) on the basis that the signer =E2=80=9Cfe[lt] unsafe=E2=80=9D (whatever th=
at means) at some time before any injury and still participated [or did not=
give notice]. This is a trial lawyer=E2=80=99s delight and, at minimum, wi=
ll cause defense counsel to delay settlement until the edge of trial, runni=
ng up litigation expenses, until every statement of the plaintiff pre-injur=
y has been collected and parsed. If you sign this, do not talk to any=
body (even in jest) about race or track conditions till your car is on the =
trailer and off the premises. Other language gives a defense based on=
your non-disclosure of any virus symptoms; if you cough or have nausea (pr=
obably nerves and a crummy hot dog) you had better tell race organizers and=
they will have no choice but to escort you out. <div><br clear=3D"no=
ne"><div dir=3D"ltr">Dale Oesterle<div>- Sent from iPad</div></div><br clea=
r=3D"none"></div></div><div class=3D"ydp60e9f3b4yiv4290732478ydpb4741896yiv=
0483641789yqt5143785186" id=3D"ydp60e9f3b4yiv4290732478ydpb4741896yiv048364=
1789yqtfd20543"></div></div><div><div class=3D"ydp60e9f3b4yiv4290732478ydpb=
4741896yiv0483641789yqt5143785186" id=3D"ydp60e9f3b4yiv4290732478ydpb474189=
6yiv0483641789yqtfd95746"><div class=3D"ydp60e9f3b4yiv4290732478yqt68771403=
78" id=3D"ydp60e9f3b4yiv4290732478yqtfd54755"><br clear=3D"none"></div><div=
><div class=3D"ydp60e9f3b4yiv4290732478yqt6877140378" id=3D"ydp60e9f3b4yiv4=
290732478yqtfd18545"><div dir=3D"ltr"><br clear=3D"none"><blockquote type=
=3D"cite">On May 16, 2020, at 1:30 PM, John Styduhar via Fot <fot@autox.=
team.net> wrote:<br clear=3D"none"><br clear=3D"none"></blockquote></div=
></div><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"ydp60e9f3b4=
yiv4290732478yqt6877140378" id=3D"ydp60e9f3b4yiv4290732478yqtfd49240">=EF=
=BB=BF<div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"ydp60e9f3b4yiv4290732478ydpb4741896yiv=
0483641789gmail_default"><font size=3D"4">The Blackhawk Farms liability wai=
ver is worth a review and comment by one of our FOT racing attorneys.=
Not your standard form we never read. </font></div></div>=
<br clear=3D"none"></div><div class=3D"ydp60e9f3b4yiv4290732478ydpb4741896y=
iv0483641789gmail_quote"><div class=3D"ydp60e9f3b4yiv4290732478yqt687714037=
8" id=3D"ydp60e9f3b4yiv4290732478yqtfd99389"><div class=3D"ydp60e9f3b4yiv42=
90732478ydpb4741896yiv0483641789gmail_attr" dir=3D"ltr">On Fri, May 15, 202=
0 at 4:43 PM Gary Schneider <<a shape=3D"rect" href=3D"mailto:garygret@s=
bcglobal.net" rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank">garygret@sbcglobal.net</a>=
> wrote:<br clear=3D"none"></div></div><blockquote class=3D"ydp60e9f3b4y=
iv4290732478ydpb4741896yiv0483641789gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0p=
x 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex;"><div><div=
class=3D"ydp60e9f3b4yiv4290732478yqt6877140378" id=3D"ydp60e9f3b4yiv429073=
2478yqtfd65978"><div style=3D"font-family:Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;font=
-size:16px;"><div></div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">VSCDA is still planning on the Blackhawk Classic J=
une 19-21. Blackhawk is opening May 30 and I've been in touch with the trac=
k and the race chair.</div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br clear=3D"none"></div><div d=
ir=3D"ltr">Also the Midwestern Council Driver's School at BFR is firm for J=
uly 4, VSCDA & SCCA participants welcome.<br clear=3D"none"></div><div =
dir=3D"ltr"><br clear=3D"none"></div><div dir=3D"ltr">Gary Schneider</div><=
div dir=3D"ltr">Midwestern Council Chief Steward for Blackhawk Classic<br c=
lear=3D"none"></div><div><br clear=3D"none"></div>
=20
</div></div><div id=3D"ydp60e9f3b4yiv4290732478ydpb4741896yiv048364=
1789gmail-m_8202106836114834447gmail-m_6003184057457639173ydpb67c6fb2yahoo_=
quoted_0493238517"><div class=3D"ydp60e9f3b4yiv4290732478yqt6877140378" id=
=3D"ydp60e9f3b4yiv4290732478yqtfd57388">
</div><div class=3D"ydp60e9f3b4yiv4290732478ydpb4741896yqt51437=
85186" id=3D"ydp60e9f3b4yiv4290732478ydpb4741896yqtfd26415"><div class=3D"y=
dp60e9f3b4yiv4290732478yqt6877140378" id=3D"ydp60e9f3b4yiv4290732478yqtfd78=
638">
=20
<div>
On Friday, May 15, 2020, 2:23:39 PM CDT, John H. Hasty =
via Fot <<a shape=3D"rect" href=3D"mailto:fot@autox.team.net"; rel=3D"nof=
ollow" target=3D"_blank">fot@autox.team.net</a>> wrote:
</div></div>
<div><br clear=3D"none"></div>
<div><br clear=3D"none"></div><br clear=3D"none"><br clear=
=3D"none"></div></div></div></blockquote></div></div></blockquote></div></d=
iv></div></div></div>
</div>
</div><div><BFR Adult single sided waiver smaller.pdf></div>=
<div><2014 BFR Waiver.pdf></div></div></blockquote></div></div></div>
</div>
</div></body></html>
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_______________________________________________
fot@autox.team.net
http://www.fot-racing.com
Archive: http://autox.team.net/archive http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot
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