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Re: [Healeys] Oil article abour ZDDP

To: "Dave Russell" <rusd@sitestar.net>
Subject: Re: [Healeys] Oil article abour ZDDP
From: "M Lempert" <mlempert@bellsouth.net>
Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2008 13:51:28 -0500
"AFAIK"  That one took me awhile, but I got it.  Dave, I think your reply 
just reinforces my concern about what's going on with the oils - and all the 
related ambiguities.  I don't know that 20-W50 isn't used in new engines, 
and I've been putting whatever I have (left over GTX) into the Toyota we 
have. Won't waste the Brad Penn on it though.

As far as I'm concerned, an "M" rating is an automatic NO. I don't want to 
know anything more about it or have to study their tech bulletin to see if 
it might be okay. What you point out with VR1 is a good example of why I'm 
going to a specialty oil. Besides, despite Salter's good experience (which 
is noteworthy), I wasn't crazy about their (Valvoline) tech line person's 
response to me on the ZDDP issue. He didn't impress me that he really 
understood our issue; he was a bit smug about it and just insisted their 
product was fine for our purposes.  As another example, Castrol GTX used to 
be recommended, then they changed to SM, lowering the ZDDP. We had to find 
out about it ourselves.  So, I think we agree, sort of.

Regards,
Mike Lempert

From: "Dave Russell" <rusd@sitestar.net>
Subject: Re: [Healeys] Oil article abour ZDDP


>I sort of agree with Mike.
>
> However, in reading through the very confusing API standards, it appears 
> that some weights of oils may somehow be rated SM & still have higher 
> levels of Z & P. The oils which "have" to have reduced ZDDP, safe for 
> catalytic converters, are the oils which would be used in newer engines, 
> eg, 5W-20, 10W-30 etc.  You have to read through a lot to find this.
> 
>http://www.api.org/certifications/engineoil/pubs/upload/1509_16thedition042007.pdf
>
> As Editor Gary said earlier,
> "on the MG list and 20W50 is NOT used in modern cars AFAIK. They all 
> require a
> much lower weight synthetic oil. Hence it is quite plausible that an oil
> company might be putting different amounts of ZDDP in their different 
> weights of
> the same brand of oil.
> Just the facts, ma'am.
> Cheers
> gary"
>
> The SM rated oils in higher viscosities such as 20W-50 "may" not have to 
> have reduced ZDDP content since they are unlikely to be used in later cars 
> with catalytic converters. But if so, why are they allowed to have the 
> same SM rating as the reduced oils? The API specs are confusing & the oil 
> companies', published information is ambiguous at best.
>
> Valvoline has two 20-50 "Racing" oils. "Valvoline Racing VR1" part #VV211, 
> which is marked SL/SM & also a 20-50 "Valvoline Racing" part #VV851, oil 
> which is marked for "Off Road Use Only". It is implied that the "Off Road" 
> has more ZDDP but no detergents & would require very frequent oil changes. 
> Their published Z&P content on the two oils is conflicting.
>
> Since I have an ample supply of the original GM EOS, guess I'll continue 
> to use a pint with each change of VR1 20-50 street oil.
>
> Regards,
> Dave Russell
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