Re: [Healeys] FW: Drum Brakes

[Jean Caron <vintage_roadster_restoration@hotmail.com>]

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Patrick:
Hawthorn actually overtook the Austin-Healey 100S of Macklin just before th=
e pit area and then veered in front of him to go in the pits. Macklin then =
moved left to avoid Hawthorn and Levegh in the Mercedes coming in behind at=
 a much higher rate of speed had nowhere to go and hit the back of the Aust=
in-Healey and was launched into the crowd.=20
There is an excellent book about this tragedy called Le Mans 1955 by Christ=
opher Hilton.=20
There is also a very good documentary with interviews of drivers John Fitch=
 and Norm Dewis=2C find it here:
www.dailymotion.com/video/xlq9ml_the-deadliest-crash-the-le-mans-1955-disas=
ter_auto=20

Jean

From: p_cquinn@tpg.com.au
To: mayorrichard@hotmail.com=3B healeys@autox.team.net
Date: Thu=2C 29 Jan 2015 18:40:26 +1100
Subject: Re: [Healeys] FW:  Drum Brakes

G=92day The Le Mans tragedy was in 1955 and it nothing to do with brakes. H=
awthorn was running down the straight and veered at the last moment to go i=
nto the pits. Pierre Levegh in the Mercedes was behind Hawthorn and moving =
to pass him. Then Levegh had to swerve to avoid Hawthorn=92s Jaguar and in =
doing so hit the rear of Macklin=92s Austin-Healey using it as a ramp=2C ca=
using it to ignite and fly into the crowd. It=92s true that the Jaguar and =
Austin-Healey had disc brakes while the Mercedes had drums as well as a rea=
r air dam. Hoo Roo Patrick QuinnBlue Mountains=2C Oztraya From: Healeys [ma=
ilto:healeys-bounces@autox.team.net] On Behalf Of richard mayor
Sent: Thursday=2C 29 January 2015 1:27 PM
To: healeys
Subject: [Healeys] FW: Drum Brakes Any race is bad with drum brakes. They j=
ust get hot and will fade. So=2C racers do not use their brakes sometimes. =
They would throw their car sideways into the turns and let their tires scru=
b off speed. As the drums and shoes cool down they would begin to work agai=
n. I've been there!
But to answer your question..... in The 24 hours of LeMans I'm sure there w=
ere complete changes to drums and shoes in the 30's=2C 40's and the early 5=
0's.  Remember=2C that early 50's race incident at LeMans (1954?)  with the=
 Mercedes=2C Healey and Jaguar=2C  where about 80 spectators were killed=2C=
 only the Mercedes had drum brakes.  The Healey 100 and the Jaguar both had=
 disc brakes. =20

Richard Mayor Date: Thu=2C 29 Jan 2015 09:48:44 +0800
From: healey.nut@gmail.com
To: steveg@abrazosdata.com
CC: healeys@autox.team.net
Subject: Re: [Healeys] Drum Brakes

I'm sure LeMans was murder on drums=2C anyone know if they would replace th=
e brakes in those days during the course of the race?

On Thursday=2C January 29=2C 2015=2C Steve Gerow <steveg@abrazosdata.com> w=
rote:IMHO the basic issue with advanced drum brakes is complexity (i.e. cos=
t).  Late =9150s early =9160s Alfas had aluminum alfin drums with diagonal =
fins with cast-in steel liners and cast aluminum triple-leading shoes. That=
=92s 6 cylinders on the fronts alone. The ATE discs Alfa and Porsche adopte=
d provided equivalent or better stopping power at less complexity and cost.=
 I heard later Porsche=92s reason for going with discs was cost. As a side =
note=2C In the =9170s=2C Phil Hill said the drums on Grand Prix cars would =
go away part way through the race=3B in combination with burning up 60 gall=
ons of fuel in a rear tank=2C this made for pretty interesting handling. --=
 Steve GerowAltadena=2C CA=2C USABN6Check out my galleries:http://www.pbase=
.com/stevegerow/=20
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oadster_restoration@hotmail.com                                           =

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<body class=3D'hmmessage'><div dir=3D'ltr'>Patrick:<br>Hawthorn actually ov=
ertook the Austin-Healey 100S of Macklin just before the pit area and then =
veered in front of him to go in the pits. Macklin then moved left to avoid =
Hawthorn and Levegh in the Mercedes coming in behind at a much higher rate =
of speed had nowhere to go and hit the back of the Austin-Healey and was la=
unched into the crowd. <br>There is an excellent book about this tragedy ca=
lled Le Mans 1955 by Christopher Hilton. <br>There is also a very good docu=
mentary with interviews of drivers John Fitch and Norm Dewis=2C find it her=
e:<br><a href=3D"www.dailymotion.com/video/xlq9ml_the-deadliest-crash-the-l=
e-mans-1955-disaster_auto" target=3D"_blank">www.dailymotion.com/video/xlq9=
ml_the-deadliest-crash-the-le-mans-1955-disaster_auto</a> <br><br>Jean<br><=
br><div><hr id=3D"stopSpelling">From: p_cquinn@tpg.com.au<br>To: mayorricha=
rd@hotmail.com=3B healeys@autox.team.net<br>Date: Thu=2C 29 Jan 2015 18:40:=
26 +1100<br>Subject: Re: [Healeys] FW:  Drum Brakes<br><br><style><!--=0A=
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--></style><div class=3D"ecxWordSection1"><p class=3D"ecxMsoNormal"><span s=
tyle=3D"font-size:10.0pt=3B">G=92day</span></p><p class=3D"ecxMsoNormal"><s=
pan style=3D"font-size:10.0pt=3B">&nbsp=3B</span></p><p class=3D"ecxMsoNorm=
al"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt=3B">The Le Mans tragedy was in 1955 and=
 it nothing to do with brakes. Hawthorn was running down the straight and v=
eered at the last moment to go into the pits. Pierre Levegh in the Mercedes=
 was behind Hawthorn and moving to pass him. Then Levegh had to swerve to a=
void Hawthorn=92s Jaguar and in doing so hit the rear of Macklin=92s Austin=
-Healey using it as a ramp=2C causing it to ignite and fly into the crowd.<=
/span></p><p class=3D"ecxMsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt=3B">&nb=
sp=3B</span></p><p class=3D"ecxMsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt=
=3B">It=92s true that the Jaguar and Austin-Healey had disc brakes while th=
e Mercedes had drums as well as a rear air dam.</span></p><p class=3D"ecxMs=
oNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt=3B">&nbsp=3B</span></p><p class=3D=
"ecxMsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt=3B">Hoo Roo</span></p><p cla=
ss=3D"ecxMsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt=3B">&nbsp=3B</span></p>=
<p class=3D"ecxMsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt=3B">Patrick Quinn=
</span></p><p class=3D"ecxMsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt=3B">Bl=
ue Mountains=2C Oztraya</span></p><p class=3D"ecxMsoNormal"><span style=3D"=
font-size:10.0pt=3B">&nbsp=3B</span></p><div><div style=3D"border:none=3Bbo=
rder-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt=3Bpadding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm=3B"><p class=3D"ec=
xMsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt=3Bfont-family:&quot=3BTahoma=
&quot=3B=2C&quot=3Bsans-serif&quot=3B=3B" lang=3D"EN-US">From:</span></b><s=
pan style=3D"font-size:10.0pt=3Bfont-family:&quot=3BTahoma&quot=3B=2C&quot=
=3Bsans-serif&quot=3B=3B" lang=3D"EN-US"> Healeys [mailto:healeys-bounces@a=
utox.team.net] <b>On Behalf Of </b>richard mayor<br><b>Sent:</b> Thursday=
=2C 29 January 2015 1:27 PM<br><b>To:</b> healeys<br><b>Subject:</b> [Heale=
ys] FW: Drum Brakes</span></p></div></div><p class=3D"ecxMsoNormal">&nbsp=
=3B</p><div><p class=3D"ecxMsoNormal" style=3D""><span style=3D"font-family=
:&quot=3BCalibri&quot=3B=2C&quot=3Bsans-serif&quot=3B=3B">Any race is bad w=
ith drum brakes. They just get hot and will fade. So=2C racers do not use t=
heir brakes sometimes. They would throw their car sideways into the turns a=
nd let their tires scrub off speed. As the drums and shoes cool down they w=
ould begin to work again. I've been there!<br>But to answer your question..=
... in The 24 hours of LeMans I'm sure there were complete changes to drums=
 and shoes in the 30's=2C 40's and the early 50's.&nbsp=3B Remember=2C that=
 early 50's race incident at LeMans (1954?)&nbsp=3B with the Mercedes=2C He=
aley and Jaguar=2C&nbsp=3B where about 80 spectators were killed=2C only th=
e Mercedes had drum brakes.&nbsp=3B The Healey 100 and the Jaguar both had =
disc brakes.&nbsp=3B <br><br>Richard Mayor </span></p><div><div class=3D"ec=
xMsoNormal" style=3D"text-align:center=3B" align=3D"center"><span style=3D"=
font-family:&quot=3BCalibri&quot=3B=2C&quot=3Bsans-serif&quot=3B=3B"><hr id=
=3D"ecxstopSpelling" align=3D"center" size=3D"3" width=3D"100%"></span></di=
v><p class=3D"ecxMsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot=3BCalibri&quot=
=3B=2C&quot=3Bsans-serif&quot=3B=3B">Date: Thu=2C 29 Jan 2015 09:48:44 +080=
0<br>From: <a href=3D"mailto:healey.nut@gmail.com";>healey.nut@gmail.com</a>=
<br>To: <a href=3D"mailto:steveg@abrazosdata.com";>steveg@abrazosdata.com</a=
><br>CC: <a href=3D"mailto:healeys@autox.team.net";>healeys@autox.team.net</=
a><br>Subject: Re: [Healeys] Drum Brakes<br><br>I'm sure LeMans was murder =
on drums=2C anyone know if they would replace the brakes in those days duri=
ng the course of the race?<br><br>On Thursday=2C January 29=2C 2015=2C Stev=
e Gerow &lt=3B<a href=3D"mailto:steveg@abrazosdata.com";>steveg@abrazosdata.=
com</a>&gt=3B wrote:</span></p><div><div><p class=3D"ecxMsoNormal"><span st=
yle=3D"font-family:&quot=3BCalibri&quot=3B=2C&quot=3Bsans-serif&quot=3B=3B"=
 lang=3D"EN-US">IMHO the basic issue with advanced drum brakes is complexit=
y (i.e. cost). </span></p><p class=3D"ecxMsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-fam=
ily:&quot=3BCalibri&quot=3B=2C&quot=3Bsans-serif&quot=3B=3B" lang=3D"EN-US"=
>&nbsp=3B</span></p><p class=3D"ecxMsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&q=
uot=3BCalibri&quot=3B=2C&quot=3Bsans-serif&quot=3B=3B" lang=3D"EN-US">Late =
=9150s early =9160s Alfas had aluminum alfin drums with diagonal fins with =
cast-in steel liners and cast aluminum triple-leading shoes. That=92s 6 cyl=
inders on the fronts alone.</span></p><p class=3D"ecxMsoNormal"><span style=
=3D"font-family:&quot=3BCalibri&quot=3B=2C&quot=3Bsans-serif&quot=3B=3B" la=
ng=3D"EN-US">&nbsp=3B</span></p><p class=3D"ecxMsoNormal"><span style=3D"fo=
nt-family:&quot=3BCalibri&quot=3B=2C&quot=3Bsans-serif&quot=3B=3B" lang=3D"=
EN-US">The ATE discs Alfa and Porsche adopted provided equivalent or better=
 stopping power at less complexity and cost. I heard later Porsche=92s reas=
on for going with discs was cost.</span></p><p class=3D"ecxMsoNormal"><span=
 style=3D"font-family:&quot=3BCalibri&quot=3B=2C&quot=3Bsans-serif&quot=3B=
=3B" lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp=3B</span></p><p class=3D"ecxMsoNormal"><span styl=
e=3D"font-family:&quot=3BCalibri&quot=3B=2C&quot=3Bsans-serif&quot=3B=3B" l=
ang=3D"EN-US">As a side note=2C In the =9170s=2C Phil Hill said the drums o=
n Grand Prix cars would go away part way through the race=3B in combination=
 with burning up 60 gallons of fuel in a rear tank=2C this made for pretty =
interesting handling.</span></p><p class=3D"ecxMsoNormal"><span style=3D"fo=
nt-family:&quot=3BCalibri&quot=3B=2C&quot=3Bsans-serif&quot=3B=3B" lang=3D"=
EN-US">&nbsp=3B</span></p><p class=3D"ecxMsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-fam=
ily:&quot=3BCalibri&quot=3B=2C&quot=3Bsans-serif&quot=3B=3B" lang=3D"EN-US"=
>--</span></p><p class=3D"ecxMsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot=3B=
Calibri&quot=3B=2C&quot=3Bsans-serif&quot=3B=3B" lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp=3B</s=
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i&quot=3B=2C&quot=3Bsans-serif&quot=3B=3B" lang=3D"EN-US">Steve Gerow</span=
></p><p class=3D"ecxMsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot=3BCalibri&q=
uot=3B=2C&quot=3Bsans-serif&quot=3B=3B" lang=3D"EN-US">Altadena=2C CA=2C US=
A</span></p><p class=3D"ecxMsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot=3BCa=
libri&quot=3B=2C&quot=3Bsans-serif&quot=3B=3B" lang=3D"EN-US">BN6</span></p=
><p class=3D"ecxMsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot=3BCalibri&quot=
=3B=2C&quot=3Bsans-serif&quot=3B=3B" lang=3D"EN-US">Check out my galleries:=
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