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Moah DATA! Yeah!
Definitely makes sense. Both my Healeys have had their tanks sloshed
with Bill Hirsch sealer (I heard Bill Hirsch died recently, BTW). The
BJ8's tank was done at least 20 years ago, the BN2's more recently. I
inspect them occasionally and have seen no evidence of any fragments of
the sealer either coming out of the feed pipe or in the pumps when I
pull them apart. Also, when the last pump stopped and I fitted my last
spare pump it started pumping enthusiastically--and I drove it for 10 or
so miles--so if the pickup tube in the tank is plugged I wouldn't expect
that, but I'll have a look inside the tanks.
I've reported it before, but when restoring the BN2 we bought a used
tank. We had an issues with an extremely erratic pump: no pumping,
heavy thrashing (like fibrillation you get when the tank runs dry or you
have an inlet leak) and occasionally, normal pumping. We blew out the
lines, tried several needle valves and Grose jets but to no avail.Â
Finally, my dad had a hunch and cut the pickup tube out of the tank.Â
Sure enough, there was a lot of corrosion and a pinhole leak in the tube
near where it exited the tank. Dad speculated that the flux used to
solder the tube in the tank was corrosive and not cleaned off correctly
(well, it was a 40-year-old tank at the time). Something to put in the
diagnostics database.
Bob
On 11/28/2018 8:26 PM, Michael Salter wrote:
> This discussion about fuel pumps has revived something from the old
> grey matter ...
> To those mentioning repeated failures one problem that will cause
> premature failure is restrictions in the supply to the pump.
> The way these pumps work is that the spring in the pump provides the
> pressure. As the pressure on the output side of the pump decreases the
> diaphragm moves down to a point where the points close, that energizes
> the coil to pull the armature up against the spring pressure to the
> point where the points "flip" and open to stop the current flow
> through the coil.
> HOWEVER if there is a restriction in the fuel line feeding the pump
> the low pressure at the pump inlet can create a partial vacuum which
> will prevent the armature from rising fully and thus the points from
> "flipping" .
> When this happens the coil remains energized and "cooks" in a short
> time thus ruining the pump.
> I discovered this while trying to resolve a delivery problem in a car
> that had had the tank "sloshed". The sloshing compound had coated the
> gauze filter inside the tank severly restricting the flow.
> The test was to put an analogue ammeter on the pump electrical supply
> which showed the prolonged current flow to the pump.
>
> M
>
> On Wed, Nov 28, 2018, 9:45 PM Kees Oudesluijs <coudesluijs@chello.nl
>
> Quite so. The only thing I can come up with is the car is hardly
> being used and being stored in dampish non ventilated conditions,
> thus corroding the points. As I said before I have had SU fuel
> pumps in from more than 50 years old which were absolutely perfect
> except for the points corroded because the car was not used enough
> or worn because of not being adjusted properly.
>
> If used regularly and kept dry internally they last forever.
>
> Another thing: If you have had to tap the pump to get it going,
> replace/polish and adjust the points ASAP. Do not wait until you
> have to repeat the tapping.
>
> When fitting a new SU-pump you best remove the cap to inspect and
> if needed clean the points first with very fine polishing paper, I
> use at least 1000. It is even not uncommon that brand new pumps
> that have been on the shelf for a while, either at home, in the
> garage or at the suppliers do not work because the points are
> dirty/corroded and have to be attended to first. I have bought
> many pumps that were sold as "defective, for spares or repair"Â
> for a song, that did not work and appeared to be in fact NOS.
> Cleaning and polishing the points was all that was needed for
> these. If you have a new/rebuild spare pump in store , remove the
> cap and insert a bit of acid free paper in between the points,
> this will stop electrolytic corrosion.
>
> In the late 70´s I was collecting quite a lot of Jensen parts and
> got presented a new pump by Jensen Parts & Service that was said
> to be defective but only needed some small attention. My old pump
> kept working (more than 160000mls) so the new pump was never
> needed. About 5 or 6 years ago I came across that pump and decided
> to have a look inside. It was of course mint but there were real
> cauliflowers around the points. Just polished them, fitted a
> transil (as I do with all my rebuilds) and is now in my present car.
>
>
> Kees Oudesluijs
>
>
>
> Op 28-11-2018 om 18:50 schreef healeydoc@gmail.com
>> I do not understand the problem with the SU pump that everyone
>> feels that they have to re invent the wheel. I have using the
>> standard SU pump with points in my Healey for almost 75000 miles
>> and never had a failure.
>> We also have been installing the standard SU points pump here at
>> the shop on every car we do for over 40 years
>> Everything from Healeyâ??s, MGâ??s and Jaguarâ??s and had very few
>> failures.
>> David Nock
>> 209 948 8767
>> www.britishcarspecialists.com <http://www.britishcarspecialists.com>
>>
>> Help us have our Founder Norman Nock inducteed into the
>> British Sportscar Hall of Fame, You can vote for your favorites
>> by visiting the site at.
>> www.britishsportscarhall.org <http://www.britishsportscarhall.org>
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, November 28, 2018 6:00 AM
>> *Subject:* Re: [Healeys] Fuel pumps (AGAIN!)
>> I found the voltage regulator was misadjusted when i got my car.Â
>> At 17V, a new pump quit working in less than a year. At 14V, the
>> replacement is 10 years old and happily ticking away.
>> Tom
>> On Tue, Nov 27, 2018, 9:16 PM Frank Magnusson <fmags@cox.net
>>
>> Hi Bob,
>>
>> Iâ??m also not sure why youâ??re having problems with pumps.Â
>> Maybe something common between all of them; the vent, the
>> ground, the venting of the fuel system, etc.
>>
>> I replaced my original pump in the late 80â??s with a stock SU
>> pump with points and itâ??s been on the car ever since; no
>> problems except last year when it didnâ??t want to start, but a
>> rap with a rubber mallet and itâ??s been working ever since.
>>
>> Try Healey Surgeons for a replacement pump. Their parts are
>> 100% correct and Iâ??ve never had a problem with anything from
>> them in almost 30 years.
>>
>> Best of luck,
>>
>> Frank
>>
>> â??65 BJ8
>>
>>
>>
>> <https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient&utm_term=icon>
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<p>Moah DATA! Yeah!</p>
<p>Definitely makes sense. Both my Healeys have had their tanks
sloshed with Bill Hirsch sealer (I heard Bill Hirsch died
recently, BTW). The BJ8's tank was done at least 20 years ago,
the BN2's more recently. I inspect them occasionally and have
seen no evidence of any fragments of the sealer either coming out
of the feed pipe or in the pumps when I pull them apart. Also,
when the last pump stopped and I fitted my last spare pump it
started pumping enthusiastically--and I drove it for 10 or so
miles--so if the pickup tube in the tank is plugged I wouldn't
expect that, but I'll have a look inside the tanks.</p>
<p>I've reported it before, but when restoring the BN2 we bought a
used tank. We had an issues with an extremely erratic pump: no
pumping, heavy thrashing (like fibrillation you get when the tank
runs dry or you have an inlet leak) and occasionally, normal
pumping. We blew out the lines, tried several needle valves and
Grose jets but to no avail. Finally, my dad had a hunch and cut
the pickup tube out of the tank. Sure enough, there was a lot of
corrosion and a pinhole leak in the tube near where it exited the
tank. Dad speculated that the flux used to solder the tube in the
tank was corrosive and not cleaned off correctly (well, it was a
40-year-old tank at the time). Something to put in the
diagnostics database.</p>
<p>Bob<br>
</p>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 11/28/2018 8:26 PM, Michael Salter
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CAB3i7L+GCFGNKrnNCbuvvuTHQS8U-PnTCM9ME-jkuyutNn-DFw@mail.gmail.com">
<meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
<div dir="auto">This discussion about fuel pumps has revived
something from the old grey matter ...
<div dir="auto">To those mentioning repeated failures one
problem that will cause premature failure is restrictions in
the supply to the pump.</div>
<div dir="auto">The way these pumps work is that the spring in
the pump provides the pressure. As the pressure on the output
side of the pump decreases the diaphragm moves down to a point
where the points close, that energizes the coil to pull the
armature up against the spring pressure to the point where the
points "flip" and open to stop the current flow through the
coil.</div>
<div dir="auto">HOWEVER if there is a restriction in the fuel
line feeding the pump the low pressure at the pump inlet can
create a partial vacuum which will prevent the armature from
rising fully and thus the points from "flipping" .</div>
<div dir="auto">When this happens the coil remains energized and
"cooks" in a short time thus ruining the pump.</div>
<div dir="auto">I discovered this while trying to resolve a
delivery problem in a car that had had the tank "sloshed". The
sloshing compound had coated the gauze filter inside the tank
severly restricting the flow. </div>
<div dir="auto">The test was to put an analogue ammeter on the
pump electrical supply which showed the prolonged current flow
to the pump.</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">M</div>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr">On Wed, Nov 28, 2018, 9:45 PM Kees Oudesluijs
<<a href="mailto:coudesluijs@chello.nl";
moz-do-not-send="true">coudesluijs@chello.nl</a> wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF">
<p>Quite so. The only thing I can come up with is the car is
hardly being used and being stored in dampish non
ventilated conditions, thus corroding the points. As I
said before I have had SU fuel pumps in from more than 50
years old which were absolutely perfect except for the
points corroded because the car was not used enough or
worn because of not being adjusted properly. <br>
</p>
<p>If used regularly and kept dry internally they last
forever.<br>
</p>
<p>Another thing: If you have had to tap the pump to get it
going, replace/polish and adjust the points ASAP. Do not
wait until you have to repeat the tapping.</p>
<p>When fitting a new SU-pump you best remove the cap to
inspect and if needed clean the points first with very
fine polishing paper, I use at least 1000. It is even not
uncommon that brand new pumps that have been on the shelf
for a while, either at home, in the garage or at the
suppliers do not work because the points are
dirty/corroded and have to be attended to first. I have
bought many pumps that were sold as "defective, for spares
or repair"Â for a song, that did not work and appeared to
be in fact NOS. Cleaning and polishing the points was all
that was needed for these. If you have a new/rebuild spare
pump in store , remove the cap and insert a bit of acid
free paper in between the points, this will stop
electrolytic corrosion.</p>
<p>In the late 70´s I was collecting quite a lot of Jensen
parts and got presented a new pump by Jensen Parts &
Service that was said to be defective but only needed some
small attention. My old pump kept working (more than
160000mls) so the new pump was never needed. About 5 or 6
years ago I came across that pump and decided to have a
look inside. It was of course mint but there were real
cauliflowers around the points. Just polished them, fitted
a transil (as I do with all my rebuilds) and is now in my
present car.<br>
</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p>Kees Oudesluijs</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<div class="m_-859660861838157moz-cite-prefix">Op 28-11-2018
om 18:50 schreef <a
class="m_-859660861838157moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="mailto:healeydoc@gmail.com"; target="_blank"
rel="noreferrer"
moz-do-not-send="true">healeydoc@gmail.com</a>:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div
style="FONT-SIZE:12pt;FONT-FAMILY:'Century';COLOR:#000000">
<div>I do not understand the problem with the SU pump
that everyone feels that they have to re invent the
wheel. I have using the standard SU pump with points
in my Healey for almost 75000 miles and never had a
failure. </div>
<div>Â </div>
<div>We also have been installing the standard SU
points pump here at the shop on every car we do for
over 40 years </div>
<div>Everything from Healeyâ??s, MGâ??s and Jaguarâ??s and
had very few failures.</div>
<div>Â </div>
<div>Â </div>
<div>Â </div>
<div
style="FONT-SIZE:12pt;FONT-FAMILY:'Century';COLOR:#000000">David
Nock<br>
<a
class="m_-859660861838157moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="mailto:healeydoc@sbcglobal.net";
target="_blank" rel="noreferrer"
moz-do-not-send="true">healeydoc@sbcglobal.net</a><br>
209 948 8767<br>
<a
class="m_-859660861838157moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="http://www.britishcarspecialists.com";
target="_blank" rel="noreferrer"
moz-do-not-send="true">www.britishcarspecialists.com</a><br>
<br>
Help us have our Founder Norman Nock inducteed into
the <br>
British Sportscar Hall of Fame, You can vote for
your favorites <br>
by visiting the site at.<br>
<a
class="m_-859660861838157moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="http://www.britishsportscarhall.org";
target="_blank" rel="noreferrer"
moz-do-not-send="true">www.britishsportscarhall.org</a><br>
</div>
<div
style="FONT-SIZE:small;TEXT-DECORATION:none;FONT-FAMILY:"Calibri";FONT-WEIGHT:normal;COLOR:#000000;FONT-STYLE:normal;DISPLAY:inline">
<div style="FONT:10pt tahoma">
<div>Â </div>
<div style="BACKGROUND:#f5f5f5">
<div><b>From:</b> <a title="ah3000me@gmail.com"
href="mailto:ah3000me@gmail.com";
target="_blank" rel="noreferrer"
moz-do-not-send="true">Tom</a> </div>
<div><b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, November 28, 2018
6:00 AM</div>
<div><b>To:</b> <a
title="healeys@autox.team.net"
href="mailto:healeys@autox.team.net";
target="_blank" rel="noreferrer"
moz-do-not-send="true">healeys@autox.team.net</a>
</div>
<div><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Healeys] Fuel pumps
(AGAIN!)</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>Â </div>
</div>
<div
style="FONT-SIZE:small;TEXT-DECORATION:none;FONT-FAMILY:"Calibri";FONT-WEIGHT:normal;COLOR:#000000;FONT-STYLE:normal;DISPLAY:inline">
<div>I found the voltage regulator was misadjusted
when i got my car. At 17V, a new pump quit
working in less than a year. At 14V, the
replacement is 10 years old and happily ticking
away.Â
<div>Â </div>
<div>Tom</div>
</div>
<div>Â </div>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr">On Tue, Nov 27, 2018, 9:16 PM Frank
Magnusson <<a href="mailto:fmags@cox.net";
target="_blank" rel="noreferrer"
moz-do-not-send="true">fmags@cox.net</a>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote"
style="PADDING-LEFT:1ex;MARGIN:0px 0px 0px
0.8ex;BORDER-LEFT:#ccc 1px solid">
<div vlink="#954F72" link="#0563C1" lang="EN-US">
<div
class="m_-859660861838157m_-9069400391176008071WordSection1">
<p class="MsoNormal">Hi Bob,</p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Â </p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Iâ??m also not sure why
youâ??re having problems with pumps. Maybe
something common between all of them; the
vent, the ground, the venting of the fuel
system, etc.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Â </p>
<p class="MsoNormal">I replaced my original
pump in the late 80â??s with a stock SU pump
with points and itâ??s been on the car ever
since; no problems except last year when
it didnâ??t want to start, but a rap with a
rubber mallet and itâ??s been working ever
since.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Â </p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Try Healey Surgeons for
a replacement pump. Their parts are 100%
correct and Iâ??ve never had a problem with
anything from them in almost 30 years.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Â </p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Best of luck,</p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Frank</p>
<p class="MsoNormal">â??65 BJ8</p>
</div>
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