--===============0672219379139064686==
boundary="----=_Part_132672_1159718533.1543676465587"
------=_Part_132672_1159718533.1543676465587
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Another sloshing horror story. We were 600 mikes from home & in the Rocky M=
ountains. A friend's 3000 had been running fine until one day in the mounta=
ins. It began to run fine for about 15-20 minutes, then slowly die. A few m=
inutes later it would restart & run fine for 15-20 minutes & die again. It =
repeated this pattern over & over. Of course we checked adjusted &/or repla=
ced everything we could. The problem turned out to be the sloshing sealer t=
hat had separated in a large sheet from the bottom of the tank. With the pu=
mp running the sheet would be sucked up to the pickup & the pump was being =
starved for fuel. When the engine died & the ignition was shut off the shee=
t of sealant would slowly sink back down to the bottom of the tank & the pu=
mp could again deliver fuel until the sheet was again drawn up to the pick =
up.=C2=A0Gary Hodson
-----Original Message-----
From: Bob Spidell <bspidell@comcast.net>
To: healeys <healeys@autox.team.net>
Sent: Fri, Nov 30, 2018 10:47 pm
Subject: Re: [Healeys] Fuel pumps (AGAIN!)
Moah DATA!=C2=A0 Yeah! Definitely makes sense.=C2=A0 Both my Healeys have =
had their tanks sloshed with Bill Hirsch sealer (I heard Bill Hirsch died r=
ecently, BTW).=C2=A0 The BJ8's tank was done at least 20 years ago, the BN2=
's more recently.=C2=A0 I inspect them occasionally and have seen no eviden=
ce of any fragments of the sealer either coming out of the feed pipe or in =
the pumps when I pull them apart.=C2=A0 Also, when the last pump stopped an=
d I fitted my last spare pump it started pumping enthusiastically--and I dr=
ove it for 10 or so miles--so if the pickup tube in the tank is plugged I w=
ouldn't expect that, but I'll have a look inside the tanks. I've reported i=
t before, but when restoring the BN2 we bought a used tank.=C2=A0 We had an=
issues with an extremely erratic pump: no pumping, heavy thrashing (like f=
ibrillation you get when the tank runs dry or you have an inlet leak) and o=
ccasionally, normal pumping.=C2=A0 We blew out the lines, tried several nee=
dle valves and Grose jets but to no avail.=C2=A0 Finally, my dad had a hunc=
h and cut the pickup tube out of the tank.=C2=A0 Sure enough, there was a l=
ot of corrosion and a pinhole leak in the tube near where it exited the tan=
k.=C2=A0 Dad speculated that the flux used to solder the tube in the tank w=
as corrosive and not cleaned off correctly (well, it was a 40-year-old tank=
at the time).=C2=A0 Something to put in the diagnostics database. Bob
On 11/28/2018 8:26 PM, Michael Salter wrote:
=20
=20
This discussion about fuel pumps has revived something from the old grey ma=
tter ... To those mentioning repeated failures one problem that will cause =
premature failure is restrictions in the supply to the pump. The way these =
pumps work is that the spring in the pump provides the pressure. As the pre=
ssure on the output side of the pump decreases the diaphragm moves down to =
a point where the points close, that energizes the coil to pull the armatur=
e up against the spring pressure to the point where the points "flip" and o=
pen to stop the current flow through the coil. HOWEVER if there is a restri=
ction in the fuel line feeding the pump the low pressure at the pump inlet =
can create a partial vacuum which will prevent the armature from rising ful=
ly and thus the points from "flipping" . When this happens the coil remains=
energized and "cooks" in a short time thus ruining the pump. I discovered =
this while trying to resolve a delivery problem in a car that had had the t=
ank "sloshed". The sloshing compound had coated the gauze filter=C2=A0 insi=
de the tank severly restricting the flow.=C2=A0 The test was to put an anal=
ogue ammeter on the pump electrical supply which showed the prolonged curre=
nt flow to the pump.=20
M =20
On Wed, Nov 28, 2018, 9:45 PM Kees Oudesluijs <coudesluijs@chello.nl wrot=
e:
=20
Quite so. The only thing I can come up with is the car is hardly being us=
ed and being stored in dampish non ventilated conditions, thus corroding th=
e points. As I said before I have had SU fuel pumps in from more than 50 ye=
ars old which were absolutely perfect except for the points corroded becaus=
e the car was not used enough or worn because of not being adjusted properl=
y.=20
If used regularly and kept dry internally they last forever.
Another thing: If you have had to tap the pump to get it going, replace/p=
olish and adjust the points ASAP. Do not wait until you have to repeat the =
tapping. When fitting a new SU-pump you best remove the cap to inspect and =
if needed clean the points first with very fine polishing paper, I use at l=
east 1000. It is even not uncommon that brand new pumps that have been on t=
he shelf for a while, either at home, in the garage or at the suppliers do =
not work because the points are dirty/corroded and have to be attended to f=
irst. I have bought many pumps that were sold as "defective, for spares or=
repair"=C2=A0 for a song, that did not work and appeared to be in fact NOS=
. Cleaning and polishing the points was all that was needed for these. If y=
ou have a new/rebuild spare pump in store , remove the cap and insert a bit=
of acid free paper in between the points, this will stop electrolytic corr=
osion. In the late 70=C2=B4s I was collecting=C2=A0 quite a lot of Jensen p=
arts and got presented a new pump by Jensen Parts & Service that was said t=
o be defective but only needed some small attention. My old pump kept worki=
ng (more than 160000mls) so the new pump was never needed. About 5 or 6 yea=
rs ago I came across that pump and decided to have a look inside. It was of=
course mint but there were real cauliflowers around the points. Just poli=
shed them, fitted a transil (as I do with all my rebuilds) and is now in my=
present car.
=20
Kees Oudesluijs=20
=20
Op 28-11-2018 om 18:50 schreef healeydoc@gmail.com:
=20
I do not understand the problem with the SU pump that everyone feels tha=
t they have to re invent the wheel. I have using the standard SU pump with =
points in my Healey for almost 75000 miles and never had a failure. =C2=A0=
We also have been installing the standard SU points pump here at the shop =
on every car we do for over 40 years Everything from Healey=E2=80=99s, MG=
=E2=80=99s and Jaguar=E2=80=99s and had very few failures. =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =
=C2=A0 David Nock
healeydoc@sbcglobal.net
209 948 8767
www.britishcarspecialists.com
=20
Help us have our Founder Norman Nock inducteed into the=20
British Sportscar Hall of Fame, You can vote for your favorites=20
by visiting the site at.
www.britishsportscarhall.org
=C2=A0 From: Tom Sent: Wednesday, November 28, 2018 6:00 AM To: heale=
ys@autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Healeys] Fuel pumps (AGAIN!) =C2=A0 I =
found the voltage regulator was misadjusted when i got my car.=C2=A0 At 17V=
, a new pump quit working in less than a year.=C2=A0 At 14V, the replacemen=
t is 10 years old and happily ticking away.=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Tom =C2=A0 On Tu=
e, Nov 27, 2018, 9:16 PM Frank Magnusson <fmags@cox.net wrote:
=20
Hi Bob, =C2=A0 I=E2=80=99m also not sure why you=E2=80=99re having probl=
ems with pumps.=C2=A0 Maybe something common between all of them; the vent,=
the ground, the venting of the fuel system, etc. =C2=A0 I replaced my ori=
ginal pump in the late 80=E2=80=99s with a stock SU pump with points and it=
=E2=80=99s been on the car ever since; no problems except last year when i=
t didn=E2=80=99t want to start, but a rap with a rubber mallet and it=E2=80=
=99s been working ever since. =C2=A0 Try Healey Surgeons for a replacement =
pump.=C2=A0 Their parts are 100% correct and I=E2=80=99ve never had a probl=
em with anything from them in almost 30 years. =C2=A0 Best of luck, Frank =
=E2=80=9965 BJ8 =20
=20
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------=_Part_132672_1159718533.1543676465587
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<font color=3D'black' size=3D'2' face=3D'arial'>
<div>Another sloshing horror story. We were 600 mikes from home & in th=
e Rocky Mountains. A friend's 3000 had been running fine until one day in t=
he mountains. It began to run fine for about 15-20 minutes, then slowly die=
. A few minutes later it would restart & run fine for 15-20 minutes &am=
p; die again. It repeated this pattern over & over. Of course we checke=
d adjusted &/or replaced everything we could. The problem turned out to=
be the sloshing sealer that had separated in a large sheet from the bottom=
of the tank. With the pump running the sheet would be sucked up to the pic=
kup & the pump was being starved for fuel. When the engine died & t=
he ignition was shut off the sheet of sealant would slowly sink back down t=
o the bottom of the tank & the pump could again deliver fuel until the =
sheet was again drawn up to the pick up. </div>
<div>Gary Hodson</div>
<br>
<br>
<div style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica;font-size:10pt;color:black">-----=
Original Message-----<br>
From: Bob Spidell <bspidell@comcast.net><br>
To: healeys <healeys@autox.team.net><br>
Sent: Fri, Nov 30, 2018 10:47 pm<br>
Subject: Re: [Healeys] Fuel pumps (AGAIN!)<br>
<br>
<div id=3D"yiv2223433046">
<div>
=20
<div>Moah DATA! Yeah!</div>
=20
<div>Definitely makes sense. Both my Healeys have had their tanks
sloshed with Bill Hirsch sealer (I heard Bill Hirsch died
recently, BTW). The BJ8's tank was done at least 20 years ago,
the BN2's more recently. I inspect them occasionally and have
seen no evidence of any fragments of the sealer either coming out
of the feed pipe or in the pumps when I pull them apart. Also,
when the last pump stopped and I fitted my last spare pump it
started pumping enthusiastically--and I drove it for 10 or so
miles--so if the pickup tube in the tank is plugged I wouldn't
expect that, but I'll have a look inside the tanks.</div>
=20
<div>I've reported it before, but when restoring the BN2 we bought a
used tank. We had an issues with an extremely erratic pump: no
pumping, heavy thrashing (like fibrillation you get when the tank
runs dry or you have an inlet leak) and occasionally, normal
pumping. We blew out the lines, tried several needle valves and
Grose jets but to no avail. Finally, my dad had a hunch and cut
the pickup tube out of the tank. Sure enough, there was a lot o=
f
corrosion and a pinhole leak in the tube near where it exited the
tank. Dad speculated that the flux used to solder the tube in t=
he
tank was corrosive and not cleaned off correctly (well, it was a
40-year-old tank at the time). Something to put in the
diagnostics database.</div>
=20
<div>Bob<br clear=3D"none">
</div>
=20
<div class=3D"yiv2223433046yqt2459807578" id=3D"yiv2223433046yqtfd55469">
<div class=3D"yiv2223433046moz-cite-prefix">On 11/28/2018 8:26 PM, Michael =
Salter
wrote:<br clear=3D"none">
</div>
<blockquote type=3D"cite">
</blockquote></div>
</div>
<div class=3D"yiv2223433046yqt2459807578" id=3D"yiv2223433046yqtfd24568"></=
div>
<div>
<div class=3D"yiv2223433046yqt2459807578" id=3D"yiv2223433046yqtfd11933">
<div>This discussion about fuel pumps has revived
something from the old grey matter ...
=20
<div>To those mentioning repeated failures one
problem that will cause premature failure is restrictions in
the supply to the pump.</div>
=20
<div>The way these pumps work is that the spring in
the pump provides the pressure. As the pressure on the output
side of the pump decreases the diaphragm moves down to a point
where the points close, that energizes the coil to pull the
armature up against the spring pressure to the point where the
points "flip" and open to stop the current flow through the
coil.</div>
=20
<div>HOWEVER if there is a restriction in the fuel
line feeding the pump the low pressure at the pump inlet can
create a partial vacuum which will prevent the armature from
rising fully and thus the points from "flipping" .</div>
=20
<div>When this happens the coil remains energized and
"cooks" in a short time thus ruining the pump.</div>
=20
<div>I discovered this while trying to resolve a
delivery problem in a car that had had the tank "sloshed". The
sloshing compound had coated the gauze filter inside the ta=
nk
severly restricting the flow. </div>
=20
<div>The test was to put an analogue ammeter on the
pump electrical supply which showed the prolonged current flow
to the pump.</div>
=20
<div><br clear=3D"none">
</div>
=20
<div>M</div>
</div>
<br clear=3D"none">
=20
<div class=3D"yiv2223433046gmail_quote">
=20
<div dir=3D"ltr">On Wed, Nov 28, 2018, 9:45 PM Kees Oudesluijs
<<a href=3D"mailto:coudesluijs@chello.nl"; target=3D"_blank" re=
l=3D"noopener noreferrer" shape=3D"rect" ymailto=3D"mailto:coudesluijs@chel=
lo.nl">coudesluijs@chello.nl</a> wrote:<br clear=3D"none">
</div>
<blockquote class=3D"yiv2223433046gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 =
0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;">
=20
<div>
=20
<div>Quite so. The only thing I can come up with is the car is
hardly being used and being stored in dampish non
ventilated conditions, thus corroding the points. As I
said before I have had SU fuel pumps in from more than 50
years old which were absolutely perfect except for the
points corroded because the car was not used enough or
worn because of not being adjusted properly. <br clear=3D"non=
e">
</div>
=20
<div>If used regularly and kept dry internally they last
forever.<br clear=3D"none">
</div>
=20
<div>Another thing: If you have had to tap the pump to get it
going, replace/polish and adjust the points ASAP. Do not
wait until you have to repeat the tapping.</div>
=20
<div>When fitting a new SU-pump you best remove the cap to
inspect and if needed clean the points first with very
fine polishing paper, I use at least 1000. It is even not
uncommon that brand new pumps that have been on the shelf
for a while, either at home, in the garage or at the
suppliers do not work because the points are
dirty/corroded and have to be attended to first. I have
bought many pumps that were sold as "defective, for spares
or repair" for a song, that did not work and appeared t=
o
be in fact NOS. Cleaning and polishing the points was all
that was needed for these. If you have a new/rebuild spare
pump in store , remove the cap and insert a bit of acid
free paper in between the points, this will stop
electrolytic corrosion.</div>
=20
<div>In the late 70=C2=B4s I was collecting quite a lot of Jensen
parts and got presented a new pump by Jensen Parts &
Service that was said to be defective but only needed some
small attention. My old pump kept working (more than
160000mls) so the new pump was never needed. About 5 or 6
years ago I came across that pump and decided to have a
look inside. It was of course mint but there were real
cauliflowers around the points. Just polished them, fitted
a transil (as I do with all my rebuilds) and is now in my
present car.<br clear=3D"none">
</div>
=20
<div><br clear=3D"none">
</div>
=20
<div>Kees Oudesluijs</div>
=20
<div><br clear=3D"none">
</div>
=20
<div><br clear=3D"none">
</div>
=20
<div class=3D"yiv2223433046m_-859660861838157moz-cite-prefix">Op 28-11-2018
om 18:50 schreef <a class=3D"yiv2223433046m_-859660861838157m=
oz-txt-link-abbreviated" href=3D"mailto:healeydoc@gmail.com"; target=3D"_bla=
nk" rel=3D"noopener noreferrer" shape=3D"rect" ymailto=3D"mailto:healeydoc@=
gmail.com">healeydoc@gmail.com</a>:<br clear=3D"none">
</div>
<blockquote type=3D"cite">
=20
<div dir=3D"ltr">
=20
<div style=3D"FONT-SIZE:12pt;FONT-FAMILY:'Century';COLOR:#000000;">
=20
<div>I do not understand the problem with the SU pump
that everyone feels that they have to re invent the
wheel. I have using the standard SU pump with points
in my Healey for almost 75000 miles and never had a
failure. </div>
=20
<div> </div>
=20
<div>We also have been installing the standard SU
points pump here at the shop on every car we do for
over 40 years </div>
=20
<div>Everything from Healey=E2=80=99s, MG=E2=80=99s and Jaguar=E2=80=99s an=
d
had very few failures.</div>
=20
<div> </div>
=20
<div> </div>
=20
<div> </div>
=20
<div style=3D"FONT-SIZE:12pt;FONT-FAMILY:'Century';COLOR:#000000;">David
Nock<br clear=3D"none">
<a class=3D"yiv2223433046m_-859660861838157moz-txt-link=
-abbreviated" href=3D"mailto:healeydoc@sbcglobal.net"; target=3D"_blank" rel=
=3D"noopener noreferrer" shape=3D"rect" ymailto=3D"mailto:healeydoc@sbcglob=
al.net">healeydoc@sbcglobal.net</a><br clear=3D"none">
209 948 8767<br clear=3D"none">
<a class=3D"yiv2223433046m_-859660861838157moz-txt-link=
-abbreviated" href=3D"http://www.britishcarspecialists.com"; target=3D"_blan=
k" rel=3D"noopener noreferrer" shape=3D"rect">www.britishcarspecialists.com=
</a><br clear=3D"none">
<br clear=3D"none">
Help us have our Founder Norman Nock inducteed into
the <br clear=3D"none">
British Sportscar Hall of Fame, You can vote for
your favorites <br clear=3D"none">
by visiting the site at.<br clear=3D"none">
<a class=3D"yiv2223433046m_-859660861838157moz-txt-link=
-abbreviated" href=3D"http://www.britishsportscarhall.org"; target=3D"_blank=
" rel=3D"noopener noreferrer" shape=3D"rect">www.britishsportscarhall.org</=
a><br clear=3D"none">
</div>
=20
<div style=3D"FONT-SIZE:small;TEXT-DECORATION:none;">
=20
<div style=3D"FONT:10pt tahoma;">
=20
<div> </div>
=20
<div style=3D"BACKGROUND:#f5f5f5;">
=20
<div><b>From:</b> <a title=3D"ah3000me@gmail.com" href=3D"mailto:ah3000me@g=
mail.com" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"noopener noreferrer" shape=3D"rect" ymai=
lto=3D"mailto:ah3000me@gmail.com";>Tom</a> </div>
=20
<div><b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, November 28, 2018
6:00 AM</div>
=20
<div><b>To:</b> <a title=3D"healeys@autox.team.net" href=3D"mailto:healeys@=
autox.team.net" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"noopener noreferrer" shape=3D"rect=
" ymailto=3D"mailto:healeys@autox.team.net";>healeys@autox.team.net</a>
</div>
=20
<div><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Healeys] Fuel pumps
(AGAIN!)</div>
</div>
</div>
=20
<div> </div>
</div>
=20
<div style=3D"FONT-SIZE:small;TEXT-DECORATION:none;">
=20
<div>I found the voltage regulator was misadjusted
when i got my car. At 17V, a new pump quit
working in less than a year. At 14V, the
replacement is 10 years old and happily ticking
away.
=20
<div> </div>
=20
<div>Tom</div>
</div>
=20
<div> </div>
=20
<div class=3D"yiv2223433046gmail_quote">
=20
<div dir=3D"ltr">On Tue, Nov 27, 2018, 9:16 PM Frank
Magnusson <<a href=3D"mailto:fmags@cox.net"; targ=
et=3D"_blank" rel=3D"noopener noreferrer" shape=3D"rect" ymailto=3D"mailto:=
fmags@cox.net">fmags@cox.net</a>
wrote:<br clear=3D"none">
</div>
<blockquote class=3D"yiv2223433046gmail_quote" style=
=3D"PADDING-LEFT:1ex;MARGIN:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;BORDER-LEFT:#ccc 1px solid;">
=20
<div lang=3D"EN-US">
=20
<div class=3D"yiv2223433046m_-859660861838157m_-9069400391176008071WordSect=
ion1">
=20
<div class=3D"yiv2223433046MsoNormal">Hi Bob,</div>
=20
<div class=3D"yiv2223433046MsoNormal"> </div>
=20
<div class=3D"yiv2223433046MsoNormal">I=E2=80=99m also not sure why
you=E2=80=99re having problems with pumps.&nb=
sp; Maybe
something common between all of them; the
vent, the ground, the venting of the fuel
system, etc.</div>
=20
<div class=3D"yiv2223433046MsoNormal"> </div>
=20
<div class=3D"yiv2223433046MsoNormal">I replaced my original
pump in the late 80=E2=80=99s with a stock SU=
pump
with points and it=E2=80=99s been on the car =
ever
since; no problems except last year when
it didn=E2=80=99t want to start, but a rap wi=
th a
rubber mallet and it=E2=80=99s been working e=
ver
since.</div>
=20
<div class=3D"yiv2223433046MsoNormal"> </div>
=20
<div class=3D"yiv2223433046MsoNormal">Try Healey Surgeons for
a replacement pump. Their parts are 100=
%
correct and I=E2=80=99ve never had a problem =
with
anything from them in almost 30 years.</div>
=20
<div class=3D"yiv2223433046MsoNormal"> </div>
=20
<div class=3D"yiv2223433046MsoNormal">Best of luck,</div>
=20
<div class=3D"yiv2223433046MsoNormal">Frank</div>
=20
<div class=3D"yiv2223433046MsoNormal">=E2=80=9965 BJ8</div>
</div>
=20
<div id=3D"yiv2223433046m_-859660861838157m_-9069400391176008071DAB4FAD8-2D=
D7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2"><br clear=3D"none">
<table style=3D"BORDER-TOP:#d3d4de 1px solid;CO=
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______________________________________________
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<pre class=3D"yiv2223433046moz-quote-pre">
<div class=3D"yiv2223433046yqt2459807578" id=3D"yiv2223433046yqtfd77728">__=
_____________________________________________
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shape=3D"rect">http://www.team.net/pipermail/healeys</a> <a class=3D"yiv222=
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<div class=3D"yiv2223433046yqt2459807578" id=3D"yiv2223433046yqtfd04915">
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<div class=3D"yiv2223433046yqt2459807578" id=3D"yiv2223433046yqtfd61535">
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