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I believe that was LAT 40?
Also, don't forget that all factory options were legal in SCCA in 1965 and =
in the AHRA in at least 1965-1967 (I don't know if anything changed after t=
hat in the AHRA). But that was back when things really mattered for the fa=
ctory efforts and when the Tiger was a World and National champ in the AHRA=
and should have been National champ the NHRA but that is another story.
Matthew
From: Michael Wood <mwood24020@aol.com>
Sent: Thursday, September 30, 2021 10:21 AM
To: tigers@autox.team.net; Taylor, Matthew <MTaylor@ea.com>; garywinblad@co=
mcast.net
Subject: Re: [Tigers] Tiger Rear Sway bar
Should have added, the TMC rear sway bars did get an LAT number way down th=
e road, but were never a Rootes or factory offered piece. In any case, at t=
hat time (and now), the sanctioning body we were running with, SCCA, deemed=
LAT options as aftermarket, not factory. So, semantics, perhaps.
In any case, there are a lot of moving pieces (literally lol) in any suspen=
sion discussion. I'm just sharing my experience, which includes lots of tes=
ting and SCCA national level autocross success :)
-----Original Message-----
am.net>>
t>>
Sent: Thu, Sep 30, 2021 10:07 am
Subject: Re: [Tigers] Tiger Rear Sway bar
No, my car had less HP at the time (260 with 4bbl and headers) and stock fr=
ont suspension. We all ran together in SCCA F Stock. But, I did have KONI'=
s, optimized alignment, limited slip and bolt on TMC traction bars. That al=
l changed when I went to the 302/5spd combo further down the road. Also, I =
don't believe a rear bar or the motors your Dad and Stan were running were =
factory options and none of us were technically stock legal (but, the faste=
r Camaro and Mustang drivers didn't care lol) But I might be misremembering=
, it was a long time ago :)
No doubt, a rear bar can be made to work correctly, just look at Buck's rac=
e car. Of course, they also run BIG front springs and bar! The real point I=
'm making is that installing an off the shelf Addco bar on a stock suspensi=
on car has not been optimal in my experience.
-----Original Message-----
Sent: Thu, Sep 30, 2021 9:49 am
Subject: RE: [Tigers] Tiger Rear Sway bar
I was just comparing two stock Tigers with factory options. I think you we=
re a bit more modified and Stan runs a 1" front sway bar. I don't think he=
has a rear bar but I'm not positive.
And Gary, the set up isn't that hard. 100% stock rear springs. Slightly s=
tiffer front springs.
Matthew
Sent: Thursday, September 30, 2021 8:41 AM
ers@autox.team.net>
Subject: Re: [Tigers] Tiger Rear Sway bar
Yep, Terry and Stan were the bogey when I first started autocrossing my Tig=
er, both of them were fantastic drivers with tons of experience, But, I end=
ed up getting past them both and I think set up had a lot to do with it. Ef=
fectively giving up rear grip to make the car more neutral or "tossable" I =
don't think makes sense. But, end of day, what you (big "you") are most com=
fortable with in terms of set up is key and, you're right, for most drivers=
that will be more important in terms of time on course than ultimate grip =
:)
-----Original Message-----
>
Sent: Thu, Sep 30, 2021 8:21 am
Subject: Re: [Tigers] Tiger Rear Sway bar
I have seen your dad(a long time ago), him and his car are VERY fast.
It seems to be set up very hard like a go-cart. The rear bar makes it loos=
e and he steers it (wags the tail) around the cones with power and his posi=
.
Very impressive and fast.
Gary
On 09/30/2021 10:07 AM Taylor, Matthew via Tigers <tigers@autox.team.net<ma=
ilto:tigers@autox.team.net>> wrote:
I don't know about "total grip capability," but you have seen my dad drive =
his Tiger with the rear sway bar and it works great. I've driven and autoc=
rossed Tigers that are set up properly with or without the rear sway bar an=
d they both handle great but different. A good driver can adjust to the di=
fferences and take advantages of the differences, but I doubt one is much f=
aster than the other. It's possible that one could be faster than the othe=
r depending on the type of course, but it would be fractions of a second ba=
sed on my autocross experiences.
Matthew
m.net>> On Behalf Of Michael Wood via Tigers
Sent: Wednesday, September 29, 2021 6:28 PM
Subject: Re: [Tigers] Tiger Rear Sway bar
Like said, any rear bar on a Tiger is an aftermarket solution...and I've ye=
t to see one (not counting custom fabricated with heim joints, correct angl=
es, adjustability etc used in conjunction with front end improvements) that=
made any sense or was additive to total grip capability.
Mike
-----Original Message-----
m.net>>
Sent: Wed, Sep 29, 2021 1:54 pm
Subject: [Tigers] Tiger Rear Sway bar
Was a rear sway bar originally fitted on the Tiger or was it a LAT option o=
r not? Size, mounting points? Either way could someone post some pictures =
of how they were suppose to be mounted and installed?
Thanks
Joel Martin
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<div class=3D"WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">I believe that was LAT 40? <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Also, don’t forget that all factory options we=
re legal in SCCA in 1965 and in the AHRA in at least 1965-1967 (I don’=
;t know if anything changed after that in the AHRA). But that was bac=
k when things really mattered for the factory efforts
and when the Tiger was a World and National champ in the AHRA and should h=
ave been National champ the NHRA but that is another story.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Matthew<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> Michael Wood <mwood24020@aol.com>=
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, September 30, 2021 10:21 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> tigers@autox.team.net; Taylor, Matthew <MTaylor@ea.com>; g=
arywinblad@comcast.net<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Tigers] Tiger Rear Sway bar<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Ar=
ial",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Ar=
ial",sans-serif;color:black">Should have added, the TMC rear sway bars=
did get an LAT number way down the road, but were never a Rootes or factor=
y offered piece. In any case, at that time (and
now), the sanctioning body we were running with, SCCA, deemed LAT options =
as aftermarket, not factory. So, semantics, perhaps.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Ar=
ial",sans-serif;color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Ar=
ial",sans-serif;color:black">In any case, there are a lot of moving pi=
eces (literally lol) in any suspension discussion. I'm just sharing my expe=
rience, which includes lots of testing and SCCA
national level autocross success :)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Ar=
ial",sans-serif;color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Ar=
ial",sans-serif;color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Ar=
ial",sans-serif;color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Ar=
ial",sans-serif;color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span style=3D"font-s=
ize:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black"><br>
<br>
-----Original Message-----<br>
From: Michael Wood via Tigers <<a href=3D"mailto:tigers@autox.team.net";>=
tigers@autox.team.net</a>><br>
To: <a href=3D"mailto:MTaylor@ea.com";>MTaylor@ea.com</a> <<a href=3D"mai=
lto:MTaylor@ea.com">MTaylor@ea.com</a>>;
<a href=3D"mailto:garywinblad@comcast.net";>garywinblad@comcast.net</a> <=
<a href=3D"mailto:garywinblad@comcast.net";>garywinblad@comcast.net</a>>;
<a href=3D"mailto:tigers@autox.team.net";>tigers@autox.team.net</a> <<a h=
ref=3D"mailto:tigers@autox.team.net";>tigers@autox.team.net</a>><br>
Sent: Thu, Sep 30, 2021 10:07 am<br>
Subject: Re: [Tigers] Tiger Rear Sway bar<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div id=3D"yiv5822410889">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Ar=
ial",sans-serif;color:black">No, my car had less HP at the time (260 w=
ith 4bbl and headers) and stock front suspension. We all ran together in SC=
CA F Stock. But, I did have KONI's, optimized
alignment, limited slip and bolt on TMC traction bars. That all changed wh=
en I went to the 302/5spd combo further down the road. Also, I don't believ=
e a rear bar or the motors your Dad and Stan were running were factory opti=
ons and none of us were technically
stock legal (but, the faster Camaro and Mustang drivers didn't care lol) B=
ut I might be misremembering, it was a long time ago :)<o:p></o:p></span></=
p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Ar=
ial",sans-serif;color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Ar=
ial",sans-serif;color:black">No doubt, a rear bar can be made to work =
correctly, just look at Buck's race car. Of course, they also run BIG front=
springs and bar! The real point I'm making is
that installing an off the shelf Addco bar on a stock suspension car has n=
ot been optimal in my experience. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Ar=
ial",sans-serif;color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div id=3D"yiv5822410889yqt35253">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span style=3D"font-s=
ize:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black"><br>
<br>
<br>
-----Original Message-----<br>
From: Taylor, Matthew <<a href=3D"mailto:MTaylor@ea.com";>MTaylor@ea.com<=
/a>><br>
To: Michael Wood <<a href=3D"mailto:mwood24020@aol.com";>mwood24020@aol.c=
om</a>>; <a href=3D"mailto:garywinblad@comcast.net";>
garywinblad@comcast.net</a> <<a href=3D"mailto:garywinblad@comcast.net";>=
garywinblad@comcast.net</a>>;
<a href=3D"mailto:tigers@autox.team.net";>tigers@autox.team.net</a> <<a h=
ref=3D"mailto:tigers@autox.team.net";>tigers@autox.team.net</a>><br>
Sent: Thu, Sep 30, 2021 9:49 am<br>
Subject: RE: [Tigers] Tiger Rear Sway bar<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div id=3D"yiv5822410889">
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"yiv5822410889msonormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-fa=
mily:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">I was just comparing two sto=
ck Tigers with factory options. I think you were a bit more modified =
and Stan runs a 1” front sway bar. I don’t think he
has a rear bar but I’m not positive.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"yiv5822410889msonormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-fa=
mily:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"yiv5822410889msonormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-fa=
mily:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">And Gary, the set up isnR=
17;t that hard. 100% stock rear springs. Slightly stiffer front=
springs.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"yiv5822410889msonormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-fa=
mily:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"yiv5822410889msonormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-fa=
mily:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">Matthew<o:p></o:p></span></p=
>
<p class=3D"yiv5822410889msonormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-fa=
mily:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<div id=3D"yiv5822410889yqtfd50253">
<p class=3D"yiv5822410889msonormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font=
-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">From:</span></b><span sty=
le=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black=
"> Michael Wood <<a href=3D"mailto:mwood24020@aol.com";>mwood24020@aol.co=
m</a>>
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, September 30, 2021 8:41 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:garywinblad@comcast.net";>garywinblad@comcast.n=
et</a>; Taylor, Matthew <<a href=3D"mailto:MTaylor@ea.com";>MTaylor@ea.co=
m</a>>;
<a href=3D"mailto:tigers@autox.team.net";>tigers@autox.team.net</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Tigers] Tiger Rear Sway bar<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div id=3D"yiv5822410889yqtfd33419">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"yiv5822410889msonormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:blac=
k">Yep, Terry and Stan were the bogey when I first started autocrossing my =
Tiger, both of them were fantastic drivers with
tons of experience, But, I ended up getting past them both and I think set=
up had a lot to do with it. Effectively giving up rear grip to make the ca=
r more neutral or "tossable" I don't think makes sense. But, end =
of day, what you (big "you") are most comfortable
with in terms of set up is key and, you're right, for most drivers that wi=
ll be more important in terms of time on course than ultimate grip :)<br>
<br>
-----Original Message-----<br>
From: GARY WINBLAD <<a href=3D"mailto:garywinblad@comcast.net"; target=3D=
"_blank">garywinblad@comcast.net</a>><br>
To: Taylor, Matthew <<a href=3D"mailto:MTaylor@ea.com"; target=3D"_blank"=
>MTaylor@ea.com</a>>; Taylor, Matthew via Tigers <<a href=3D"mailto:t=
igers@autox.team.net" target=3D"_blank">tigers@autox.team.net</a>>; Mich=
ael Wood <<a href=3D"mailto:mwood24020@aol.com"; target=3D"_blank">mwood2=
4020@aol.com</a>><br>
Sent: Thu, Sep 30, 2021 8:21 am<br>
Subject: Re: [Tigers] Tiger Rear Sway bar<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div id=3D"yiv5822410889">
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"yiv5822410889msonormal1"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;color:=
black">I have seen your dad(a long time ago), him and his car are VERY fast=
.
</span><span style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"yiv5822410889msonormal1"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;color:=
black">It seems to be set up very hard like a go-cart. The rear bar m=
akes it loose and he steers it (wags the tail) around the cones with power =
and his posi.
</span><span style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"yiv5822410889msonormal1"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;color:=
black">Very impressive and fast.
</span><span style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"yiv5822410889msonormal1"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;color:=
black">Gary
</span><span style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div id=3D"yiv5822410889yqt04544">
<div>
<p class=3D"yiv5822410889msonormal1"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;color:=
black">On 09/30/2021 10:07 AM Taylor, Matthew via Tigers <<a href=3D"mai=
lto:tigers@autox.team.net" target=3D"_blank">tigers@autox.team.net</a>> =
wrote:
</span><span style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"yiv5822410889msonormal1"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;color:=
black"> </span><span style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"yiv5822410889msonormal1"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;color:=
black"> </span><span style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"yiv5822410889msonormal1"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;color:=
black">I don’t know about “total grip capability,” but yo=
u have seen my dad drive his Tiger with the rear sway bar and it works grea=
t. I’ve driven and autocrossed Tigers that are set up
properly with or without the rear sway bar and they both handle great but =
different. A good driver can adjust to the differences and take advan=
tages of the differences, but I doubt one is much faster than the other.&nb=
sp; It’s possible that one could be faster
than the other depending on the type of course, but it would be fractions =
of a second based on my autocross experiences.</span><span style=3D"color:b=
lack"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"yiv5822410889msonormal1"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;color:=
black"> </span><span style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"yiv5822410889msonormal1"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;color:=
black">Matthew</span><span style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"yiv5822410889msonormal1"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;color:=
black"> </span><span style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"yiv5822410889msonormal1"><strong><span style=3D"font-size:10.0p=
t;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">From:</span></stron=
g><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;color:black"> Tigers <<a href=3D"mailt=
o:tigers-bounces@autox.team.net" target=3D"_blank">tigers-bounces@autox.tea=
m.net</a>>
<strong><span style=3D"font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">On Behalf =
Of </span></strong>Michael Wood via Tigers<br>
<strong><span style=3D"font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">Sent:</spa=
n></strong> Wednesday, September 29, 2021 6:28 PM<br>
<strong><span style=3D"font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">To:</span>=
</strong> <a href=3D"mailto:tigers@autox.team.net"; target=3D"_blank">
tigers@autox.team.net</a><br>
<strong><span style=3D"font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">Subject:</=
span></strong> Re: [Tigers] Tiger Rear Sway bar</span><span style=3D"color:=
black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"yiv5822410889msonormal1"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;color:=
black"> </span><span style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"yiv5822410889msonormal1"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;color:=
black">Like said, any rear bar on a Tiger is an aftermarket solution...and =
I've yet to see one (not counting custom fabricated with heim joints, corre=
ct angles, adjustability etc used in
conjunction with front end improvements) that made any sense or was additi=
ve to total grip capability. </span><span style=3D"color:black"><o:p><=
/o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"yiv5822410889msonormal1"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;color:=
black"> </span><span style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"yiv5822410889msonormal1" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span s=
tyle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;color:black">Mike<br>
<br>
<br>
-----Original Message-----<br>
From: Joel Martin via Tigers <<a href=3D"mailto:tigers@autox.team.net"; t=
arget=3D"_blank">tigers@autox.team.net</a>><br>
To: Tiger List Serve <<a href=3D"mailto:tigers@autox.team.net"; target=3D=
"_blank">tigers@autox.team.net</a>><br>
Sent: Wed, Sep 29, 2021 1:54 pm<br>
Subject: [Tigers] Tiger Rear Sway bar</span><span style=3D"color:black"><o:=
p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div id=3D"yiv5822410889">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"yiv5822410889msonormal1"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-f=
amily:"Times New Roman",serif;color:black">Was a rear sway bar or=
iginally fitted on the Tiger or was it a LAT option or not? Size, mou=
nting points? Either way could someone post some pictures
of how they were suppose to be mounted and installed?</span><span style=3D=
"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"yiv5822410889msonormal1"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-f=
amily:"Times New Roman",serif;color:black"> </span><span sty=
le=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"yiv5822410889msonormal1"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-f=
amily:"Times New Roman",serif;color:black">Thanks</span><span sty=
le=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"yiv5822410889msonormal1"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-f=
amily:"Times New Roman",serif;color:black"> </span><span sty=
le=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"yiv5822410889msonormal1"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-f=
amily:"Times New Roman",serif;color:black">Joel Martin</span><spa=
n style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
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