Well said!
John Dowson <jdo@star.le.ac.uk>@autox.team.net on 11/28/2000 08:42:57 AM
Please respond to John Dowson <jdo@star.le.ac.uk>
Sent by: owner-triumphs@autox.team.net
To: triumphs@autox.team.net
cc:
Subject: RE: Humble reply to Her Majesty - (non LBC, rant, long - hopefull
y objective)
I step into this discussion with great trepidation but here are my 2p
worth.
I work in the space industry and that brings me into contact with many
nationalities.
Currently I am working with NASA and some commercial US companies on a
project. One year ago I finished a project which involved a working
relationship
with French, Italians, Germans and Dutch and previously have worked with
Russians both during and post cold war
As these projects are of several years duration ample time is available to
get to
know people and their national characteristics.
It is one of the plus points of this type of work.
However one thing is clear. All countries have their share of ''good guys''
and they
all have their share of bigots and b******s. I hope that I have been a good
ambassador
for my country (UK) and that I have learnt not to judge a nation by a few
bad examples.
There is nothing like visiting countries (preferably not as a tourist) to
widen ones
views and understanding of other nationalities.
Best Regards
John Dowson
At 08:23 28/11/00 -0500, Bowen, Patrick wrote:
>From: Bowen, Patrick
>Sent: Tuesday, November 28, 2000 8:21 AM
>To: 'naldous@ccgmail.com'; triumphs%autox.team.net%CCG@com
>Subject: RE: Humble reply to Her Majesty - (non LBC, rant, long -
>hopefully objective)
>
>
>I truly hope with thoughts such as that running out, that you are in some
>undetermined, unthinking way trying to jest. Thoughts such as this are
what
>brought the Nazis to power. You can only become so conceited until it
>becomes your downfall. I suggest learning some humility, and really
>thinking about what you just said.
>
>Patrick Bowen
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: naldous@ccgmail.com [mailto:naldous@ccgmail.com]
>Sent: Tuesday, November 28, 2000 7:33 AM
>To: triumphs%autox.team.net%CCG@com
>Subject: Re: Humble reply to Her Majesty - (non LBC, rant, long -
>hopefully objective)
>
>
>
>Who cares what the french think of us. America is still big man on campus,
>we can still kick anybody's ass on the planet. Besides they are just
>pissed that they had to ask us to come save their asses from the Nazis.
>French are pussies. Brits too.
>Nathan
>
>
>
>
>"John Macartney" <jonmac@ndirect.co.uk>@autox.team.net on 11/27/2000
>06:33:12 PM
>
>Please respond to "John Macartney" <jonmac@ndirect.co.uk>
>
>Sent by: owner-triumphs@autox.team.net
>
>
>To: "Triumph List" <triumphs@autox.team.net>
>cc:
>
>Subject: Re: Humble reply to Her Majesty - (non LBC, rant, long -
> hopefully objective)
>
>
>
>Someone wrote:
>
>I do take acception to one glaring innacuracy, however. The French
>ARE the spawn of the devil. I spent a week with trapped with a hoard
>of them in Eleuthera at Club Med one recent summer. The couldn't
>speak a word of English... until they wanted you to pass the wine...
>The children were rude and ill-tempered
>
>Any self-respecting French national reading the above would have my
>wholehearted support if he/she uttered, or wrote "foutre le camp" in
>response!
>Is the author of these words truly serious - and if so, is it really
>accurate to castigate a whole nation to the last man, woman and child
>as "the spawn of the devil" based on one week's experience in a
>glorified holiday or summer camp?
>Does this person also realise that there could well be some French
>enthusiasts owning Triumphs on this list? If so, how would he or she
>react if the boot was on the other foot and his / her own nation was
>condemned in such an out of hand, dismissive and flagrantly rude
>manner?
>All of us would surely agree that every nationality has its fair share
>of 'unpreferables' within a total population and I can think of a
>number of Brits and Americans I have met over the years who were
>equally entitled to wear this "spawn of the devil" epithet. I'd go a
>stage further and categorise such individuals as excresences of
>humanity that both nations could well do without in the best interests
>of their own national identities.
>Having lived twice in France, both in Paris and further south in the
>country for a total period of nearly ten years, my memories are of a
>people whose culture, language, traditions, fervent patriotism and
>*courtesy to others* - especially at an international level - has few
>equals. Yes, I met some 'pains' in the process but I saw and
>experienced many convincing demonstrations of kindness, generosity,
>care, consideration and concern on the part of the French to
>'foreigners.'
>Those experiences set standards that others would do well to imitate
>and just because a few French people may not have behaved within a
>given set of circumstances as another might expect or prefer, does not
>mean the whole nation should be damned into eternity.
>To further condemn a very small number of a total whole for not
>speaking English is both narrow-minded and ludicrous in its arrogance.
>Why should they speak your/our language in their country - assuming
>the Club Med location was in France?
>Why is it that 'x' million odd Brits and 'y' million Americans (both
>mainly abroad as tourists?) expect some 300 million people living in
>mainland Europe are *obligated* to speak English, merely for the
>convenience of others who may be too idle or just too pig-ignorant to
>learn another language for themselves?
>I can only conclude this person has spent most of his or her life in
>such a deeply entrenched and insular Anglophone environment that it is
>beyond his or her wit to envisage an alternative - be it 'better' or
>'worse'?
>Finally, it may come as no surprise (or will it?) for him/her to know
>that the regard held by the French as a nation towards 'les rosbifs'
>and 'les yankees' as collective but individual nations is not too far
>removed from the contents of an overfull and very deep sewer. In their
>eyes, we are by no means the best thing that happened to humanity and
>having seen many examples of the behaviour of both those *foreign*
>nationalities at work and at leisure in France, this is an opinion the
>French are more than legitimately and reasonably entitled to hold for
>a long time into the future.
>By all means luxuriate in the freedom of speech but do not damn a
>nation until you have spoken to every single person holding that
>nationality. Only then can a realistic opinion "Based_on_Experience"
>be expressed.
>
>Rant mode off
>
>Jonmac
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