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prepositions, dingbats, and carbs

To: triumphs@autox.team.net
Subject: prepositions, dingbats, and carbs
From: "Jim Muller" <jimmuller@pop.mail.rcn.net>
Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 23:19:53 -0500
Organization: Southern Rail
References: <3DDD3FEB.14525.120591E4@localhost>
On 21 Nov 2002 at 18:15, Randall Young wrote:

> Well, I'd sure rather hear about GT6 carbs than about those dingbats !

Don't know about dingbats.  Don't know that anyone does!  But about 
the carbs...

The GT6 has SU carbs.  At the suggestion of various people here and 
abroad I tried springs and needles spec'ed by SU for a non-US '74 
Triumph 2000 engine.  The result was terrible!  These springs are 
firmer, so the pistons wouldn't rise as much.  Plus, the needles were 
quite a bit thicker over most of their range.  Both factors would 
make it leaner, but it always seemed too lean already.  At lower 
rpm's it ran well but 3000 rpm's and up was impossible.  Dropping the 
jets (a lot!) would have compensate somewhat but I couldn't find any 
good reasonable setting.

So I reinstalled the original MGB parts, being very careful to 
position the needles properly in the pistons.  Before installing them 
I considered thinning them, but I had no idea which stations (i.e. 
which positions) on the needles were pertinent.  I did try sanding 
them lightly in the regions between idle and midpoint, but I gave up 
after deciding that I didn't know what I was doing and wasn't making 
any real difference anyway.

Then I spent an hour or more twiddling various screws.  Eventually I 
satisfied myself that the mixtues were close (erring slightly on the 
rich side, especially with the cold weather), and that raising the 
piston pins on each made the rpm's do what they was supposed to (rise 
a bit then fall off significantly) to the best of my imagination.  It 
was tedious work, and the results were sensitive in ways I've never 
seen described "in the books".  I ended up nauseous but the engine is 
now much smoother, less buzzy at speed and with less apparent missing 
while cruising.

The unexpected behaviors were the following.  1. It seems that one 
carb being too rich will make the other insensitive to its mixture 
setting, allowing it to run okay even when set way too lean.  The 
mechanism for this to happen is probably the crossfeeder tube.  The 
implication is that I had to get both nearly right before either 
could be dialed in well.  2. The idle speed has to be run as low as 
possible (as described in all the manuals).  But even more important, 
the idle rpm's have to be dominated by the carb one is trying to 
tweak.  Backing out both idle screws and hand-pushing the butterflies 
closed helped.  But though one carb could be set well, I had to raise 
the throttle slightly on the other one ever so slightly before trying 
to set it.  Otherwise changes in its mixture would have minimal 
effect on idle speed.

The entire process was interative and very subtle.  It was no wonder 
that I had never had confidence in what I was doing.  When I somehow 
stumbled on a good mixture for both carbs, they both began to behave 
as expected.  I had suspected the "which carb is dominating the idle 
speed" phenomenon, but I was able to work through it only after 
getting both to work properly individually.  The resulting engine 
smoothness was a pleasant surprise.  Further taeaking might be 
possible but I'd be foolish to try without first writing down the 
current settings!

On the subject of manuals, I have an old Glenn's Foreign Car Repair 
Manual from, like, 1968 or something, purchased originally to provide 
insight into my first car, a BMW 700.  It has a section on tweaking 
SU's which turned out to be quite useful.

I wonder what would happen if I used the stiffer springs.  The 
needles would be running on thicker (leaner) portions, but the 
venturis would be smaller too.  This would me faster airflow rates, 
which should result in a richer mixture.  What would final result 
be???  Swapping a spring is easy but I don't want to go through the 
tuning procedure again!
-- 
Jim Muller
jimmuller@pop.rcn.com
'80 Spitfire, '70 GT6+

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