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Re: [TR] Pain job for 1972 TR6

To: Gene M <mclans@sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: [TR] Pain job for 1972 TR6
From: John Macartney <John.Macartney@Ukpips.org.uk>
Date: Mon, 7 Oct 2019 21:36:30 +0100
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In the ten years I worked at StandardTriumph in Coventry (1965-1975) I would=
 comment as follows:

1. White was always available as an original colour on all models with tan, b=
lack or red trim.

2. All hardware (AFAIR) was either zinc or phosphated, except for Scandinavi=
a which required another plating type which I now forget. On the many occasi=
ons I was on the assembly lines or in the paint shop, at no time do I recall=
 seeing any type of hardware being painted in any body colour before fitment=
.

3. If I=E2=80=99ve read the post correctly, it seems you feel body panels we=
re a sort of pick and mix in any colour before final painting? No way! All b=
odies for all markets and all models came out of the body shop in white unde=
rcoat prior to going through the paint shop in colour batches, with cars in b=
lack being painted only on Friday afternoons. This was intentional as Black w=
as not a popular colour and allowed the spray lines to be flushed through pr=
ior to paint shop cleaning over the weekend.

Hope the foregoing helps to clear doubts and the buildup of myths

Jonmac

Whenever I feel the need for exercise, experience has shown me it is better t=
o lie down until the feeling goes away. WINSTON CHURCHILL

> On 7 Oct 2019, at 20:58, Gene M <mclans@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>=20
> Over 40 years ago I was researching matching paint for my 70 TR6 after an a=
ccident (I still have it).  The car was painted white after someone had spra=
yed it with candy apple metallic red.  Stripping down paint on body panels, t=
he original lacquer paint were red, dark green and yellow.  I had seen other=
 white TR6's but my research at the paint supplier showed that white was not=
 an original TR6 color.  The color I went with was Jaguar white. =20
>=20
> The shop that painted the car had problems with the paint at the seams bet=
ween the panels cracked--they had tried some fillers to fill in gaps.  Turns=
 out the panels pretty much just hang on the frame and flex independently be=
cause they are held on by "square threaded" bolts, which do not pull sheet m=
etal panels together like modern sheet metal screws or fasteners.  Back then=
 I was not able to locate these square threaded bolts from any source, inclu=
ding a local hardware store that had been around since the early 1900's.
>=20
> The other thing I found out by bringing in a panel to that hardware store t=
o get fasteners was that WW II veterans recognized that this came from a Bri=
tish car because the British would dip their metal parts for everything in v=
ats of lacquer paint and air dry them since their weather would immediately r=
ust everything.  That's why original TR panels, including every nook and cra=
nny have the same color paint.  And if you scrape the color coat--no primer.=

>=20
> I went to a lot of "pick and pull" auto wreckers in the 70's trying to fin=
d body panels and these square threaded bolts were on all of them.  When I t=
ried to connect panels with these original bolts, the bolts would not cinch t=
he panels together tightly and would quickly fracture if I tried to torque t=
hem down.  If you find a panel where the bolt holes are deformed or you don'=
t find paint inside the hole, it probably was put on after a replacement.
>=20
> So a black engine compartment was probably sprayed over the original panel=
s because the car is pieced together from panels that didn't have the same o=
riginal color, or maybe it was sprayed with a high temp paint.
>=20
> The biggest problem with lacquer dipped panels is eventually there will be=
 lacquer check.  Spraying stuff on top can hide it for awhile, but eventuall=
y the checking goes through the new sealants and top coats (maybe there are n=
ew sealants that can prevent this that have been developed over the last 40 y=
ears, but I doubt it since all of the "solids" that used to be available as f=
illers in paint are gone, and those old ones would not stop the lacquer chec=
king, just hide it for awhile.
>=20
> Anyone remember the debate in the 60's on Ford with its enamel paint and o=
range peel problems, versus G.M. with its smooth lacquer finish which probab=
ly wouldn't start checking while you still owned the car.
>=20
> All my info came way before the internet and I didn't look for my old note=
s when I was trying to keep my 70 TR6 original.  My research showed mine was=
 pieced together and very little was original from the same car, and I never=
 did find a TR6 in the boneyard that had all color matching panels when you p=
ull panels apart and and look at the color of the seams. =20
>=20
> Anyone else come across these square threaded bolts?
>=20
> Gene M.
> 70 TR6
> Sacramento, CA
>=20
>=20
> Anyone know if there are urethane paints that can be sprayed over lacquer a=
nd will=20
> <original post>  Hey Jeff. Well, a "paint job" is a very relative conversa=
tion. If the
> engine bay is black then it's been repainted - someone correct me if I'm
> wrong but Triumph painted the engine bay body color.=20
>=20
>=20
> =20
> ** triumphs@autox.team.net **
>=20
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/triumphs  http://www.team.net/archi=
ve
>=20
> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/triumphs/john.ma=
cartney@ukpips.org.uk

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Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"content-type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3D=
utf-8"></head><body dir=3D"auto">In the ten years I worked at StandardTriump=
h in Coventry (1965-1975) I would comment as follows:<div><br></div><div>1. W=
hite was always available as an original colour on all models with tan, blac=
k or red trim.</div><div><br></div><div>2. All hardware (AFAIR) was either z=
inc or phosphated, except for Scandinavia which required another plating typ=
e which I now forget. On the many occasions I was on the assembly lines or i=
n the paint shop, at no time do I recall seeing any type of hardware being p=
ainted in any body colour before fitment.</div><div><br></div><div>3. If I=E2=
=80=99ve read the post correctly, it seems you feel body panels were a sort o=
f pick and mix in any colour before final painting? No way! All bodies for a=
ll markets and all models came out of the body shop in white undercoat prior=
 to going through the paint shop in colour batches, with cars in black being=
 painted only on Friday afternoons. This was intentional as Black was not a p=
opular colour and allowed the spray lines to be flushed through prior to pai=
nt shop cleaning over the weekend.</div><div><br></div><div>Hope the foregoi=
ng helps to clear doubts and the buildup of myths</div><div><br></div><div>J=
onmac<br><br><div id=3D"AppleMailSignature" dir=3D"ltr">Whenever I feel the n=
eed for exercise, experience has shown me it is better to lie down until the=
 feeling goes away. WINSTON CHURCHILL</div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br>On 7 Oct 201=
9, at 20:58, Gene M &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:mclans@sbcglobal.net";>mclans@sbcgl=
obal.net</a>&gt; wrote:<br><br></div><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div dir=3D"l=
tr">

<meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1=
">



<div><span style=3D"color:rgb(32,31,30); font-size:14.6667px; background-col=
or:rgb(255,255,255); display:inline!important">Over 40 years ago I was resea=
rching matching paint for my 70 TR6 after an accident (I still have it).&nbs=
p; The car was painted white after someone
 had sprayed it with candy apple metallic red.&nbsp; Stripping down paint on=
 body panels, the original lacquer paint were red, dark green and yellow.&nb=
sp; I had seen other white TR6's but my research at the paint supplier showe=
d that white was not an original TR6 color.&nbsp;
 The color I went with was Jaguar white.&nbsp;&nbsp;</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"color:rgb(32,31,30); font-size:14.6667px; background-col=
or:rgb(255,255,255); display:inline!important"><br>
</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"color:rgb(32,31,30); font-size:14.6667px; background-col=
or:rgb(255,255,255); display:inline!important">The shop that painted the car=
 had problems with the paint at the seams between the panels cracked--they h=
ad tried some fillers to fill in
 gaps.&nbsp; Turns out the panels pretty much just hang on the frame and fle=
x independently because they are held on by "square threaded" bolts, which d=
o not pull sheet metal panels together like modern sheet metal screws or fas=
teners.&nbsp; Back then I was not able
 to locate these square threaded bolts from any source, including a local ha=
rdware store that had been around since the early 1900's.</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"color:rgb(32,31,30); font-size:14.6667px; background-col=
or:rgb(255,255,255); display:inline!important"><br>
</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"color:rgb(32,31,30); font-size:14.6667px; background-col=
or:rgb(255,255,255); display:inline!important">The other thing I found out b=
y bringing in a panel to that hardware store to get fasteners was that WW II=
 veterans recognized that this
 came from a British car because the British would dip their metal parts for=
 everything in vats of lacquer paint and air dry them since their weather wo=
uld immediately rust everything.&nbsp; That's why original TR panels, includ=
ing every nook and cranny have the
 same color paint.&nbsp; And if you scrape the color coat--no primer.</span>=
</div>
<div><span style=3D"color:rgb(32,31,30); font-size:14.6667px; background-col=
or:rgb(255,255,255); display:inline!important"><br>
</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"color:rgb(32,31,30); font-size:14.6667px; background-col=
or:rgb(255,255,255); display:inline!important">I went to a lot of "pick and p=
ull" auto wreckers in the 70's trying to find body panels and these square t=
hreaded bolts were on all of them.&nbsp;
 When I tried to connect panels with these original bolts, the bolts would n=
ot cinch the panels together tightly and would quickly fracture if I tried t=
o torque them down.&nbsp; If you find a panel where the bolt holes are defor=
med or you don't find paint inside
 the hole, it probably was put on after a replacement.</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"color:rgb(32,31,30); font-size:14.6667px; background-col=
or:rgb(255,255,255); display:inline!important"><br>
</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size: 14.6667px;">So a black engine compartment was=
 probably sprayed over the original panels because the car is pieced togethe=
r from panels that didn't have the same original color, or maybe it was spra=
yed with a high temp paint.</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size: 14.6667px;"><br>
</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size: 14.6667px;">The biggest problem with lacquer d=
ipped panels is eventually there will be lacquer check.&nbsp; Spraying stuff=
 on top can hide it for awhile, but eventually the checking goes through the=
 new sealants and top coats (maybe
 there are new sealants that can prevent this that have been developed over t=
he last 40 years, but I doubt it since all of the "solids" that used to be a=
vailable as fillers in paint are gone, and those old ones would not stop the=
 lacquer checking, just hide
 it for awhile.</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size: 14.6667px;"><br>
</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size: 14.6667px;">Anyone remember the debate in the=
 60's on Ford with its enamel paint and orange peel problems, versus G.M. wi=
th its smooth lacquer finish which probably wouldn't start checking while yo=
u still owned the car.</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size: 14.6667px;"><br>
</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size: 14.6667px;">All my info came way before the i=
nternet and I didn't look for my old notes when I was trying to keep my 70 T=
R6 original.&nbsp; My research showed mine was pieced together and very litt=
le was original from the same car, and
 I never did find a TR6 in the boneyard that had all color matching panels w=
hen you pull panels apart and and look at the color of the seams.&nbsp;&nbsp=
;</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size: 14.6667px;"><br>
</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size: 14.6667px;">Anyone else come across these squ=
are threaded bolts?</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size: 14.6667px;"><br>
</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size: 14.6667px;">Gene M.</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size: 14.6667px;">70 TR6</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size: 14.6667px;">Sacramento, CA</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size: 14.6667px;"><br>
</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size: 14.6667px;"><br>
</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size: 14.6667px;">Anyone know if there are urethane=
 paints that can be sprayed over lacquer and will&nbsp;</span></div>
<div>
<div id=3D"appendonsend" style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif; f=
ont-size:12pt; color:rgb(0,0,0)">
</div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12pt; colo=
r:rgb(0,0,0)">
</div>
<span style=3D"color:rgb(32,31,30); font-size:14.6667px; background-color:rg=
b(255,255,255); display:inline!important">&lt;original post&gt;&nbsp; Hey Je=
ff. Well, a "paint job" is a very relative conversation. If the</span><br st=
yle=3D"color:rgb(32,31,30); font-size:14.6667px; background-color:rgb(255,25=
5,255)">
<span style=3D"color:rgb(32,31,30); font-size:14.6667px; background-color:rg=
b(255,255,255); display:inline!important">engine bay is black then it's been=
 repainted - someone correct me if I'm</span><br style=3D"color:rgb(32,31,30=
); font-size:14.6667px; background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">
<span style=3D"color:rgb(32,31,30); font-size:14.6667px; background-color:rg=
b(255,255,255); display:inline!important">wrong but Triumph painted the engi=
ne bay body color.<span>&nbsp;</span></span>
<div class=3D"BodyFragment"><font size=3D"2"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt">=

<div class=3D"PlainText"><br>
<br>
&nbsp;<br>
</div>
</span></font></div>
</div>


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