triumphs
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Re: [TR] need a relay non Triumph

To: Frank Fisher <yellowtr3@yahoo.com>, darrellw360@mac.com, DAVID MASSEY <dave1massey@cs.com>
Subject: Re: [TR] need a relay non Triumph
From: Michael Porter <mdporter@dfn.com>
Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2020 18:00:48 -0700
Cc: triumphs@autox.team.net
Delivered-to: mharc@autox.team.net
Delivered-to: triumphs@autox.team.net
References: <505070498.488617.1580248145147.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <505070498.488617.1580248145147@mail.yahoo.com> <526992642.488060.1580255830439@mail.yahoo.com>
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On 1/28/2020 4:57 PM, Frank Fisher wrote:
> i guess then when sitting in the parking lot doing nothing. i want the 
> switch closed.
> after i start the motor and the lights come on i want the switch to open
>
>
>
After reading your intended use, it seems to me that the simplest and 
safest way to solve this problem is to fix the original fault.  Despite 
what you say about the dealer being unable to find the problem, it's not 
rocket science.  I'm assuming that the key on this car only operates the 
locks from the outside with an rf signal and does not have a metal key 
on the remote (affixes to the ignition switch magnetically).

If the turn signals flash when you operate the remote, then the rf 
circuit is powered and is working.  Do the door locks work when the 
interior lock buttons are pushed?  If so, that means the door lock 
solenoids are working and the relay is operating.

That means that there's problem in the computer that runs the body 
circuits or the door lock relay isn't getting a signal from the 
computer, but it is getting it from the interior switch. Typically, 
these circuits have a dedicated driver in the computer that outputs 
enough current to pull in the relay (50-75 mA).  If that driver is bad, 
the computer can't pull in the relay.  If the door lock relay is run by 
both the manual switch and the computer, it's likely that the two 
circuits are isolated by diodes.  A blown diode in the computer side of 
the circuit will prevent it from actuating the locks, as will a physical 
break in the wiring from the computer to the relay.  It can also be a 
break in the wiring that sends a signal from the rf receiver to the 
computer.

Too many shops today depend too heavily on scanners, and this sounds 
like a problem that requires some old-fashioned circuit tracing and 
fault-elimination logic.

The problem I see about your jiggered switch arrangement is that the 
locks have to operate in two modes, locking and unlocking, and the relay 
used is probably a center-off, momentary switching type.  Trying to 
booger up the circuit with a secondary switch may make things worse, not 
better.  Do you know if the wiring schematics for this model and year 
are available online?  That would be a big help, knowing what's 
installed, rather than guessing.


Cheers.

-- 


Michael Porter
Roswell, NM


Never let anyone drive you crazy when you know it's within walking distance....


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    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 1/28/2020 4:57 PM, Frank Fisher
      wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote type="cite"
      cite="mid:526992642.488060.1580255830439@mail.yahoo.com">
      <meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
      <div class="ydpeda9aec2yahoo-style-wrap"
        style="font-family:Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial,
        sans-serif;font-size:16px;">
        <div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false">i guess then when sitting in
          the parking lot doing nothing. i want the switch closed.</div>
        <div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false">after i start the motor and
          the lights come on i want the switch to open</div>
        <div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false"><br>
        </div>
        <div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false"><br>
        </div>
        <div><br>
        </div>
      </div>
    </blockquote>
    <p>After reading your intended use, it seems to me that the simplest
      and safest way to solve this problem is to fix the original
      fault.  Despite what you say about the dealer being unable to find
      the problem, it's not rocket science.  I'm assuming that the key
      on this car only operates the locks from the outside with an rf
      signal and does not have a metal key on the remote (affixes to the
      ignition switch magnetically).   <br>
    </p>
    <p>If the turn signals flash when you operate the remote, then the
      rf circuit is powered and is working.  Do the door locks work when
      the interior lock buttons are pushed?  If so, that means the door
      lock solenoids are working and the relay is operating.  <br>
    </p>
    <p>That means that there's problem in the computer that runs the
      body circuits or the door lock relay isn't getting a signal from
      the computer, but it is getting it from the interior switch. 
      Typically, these circuits have a dedicated driver in the computer
      that outputs enough current to pull in the relay (50-75 mA).  If
      that driver is bad, the computer can't pull in the relay.  If the
      door lock relay is run by both the manual switch and the computer,
      it's likely that the two circuits are isolated by diodes.  A blown
      diode in the computer side of the circuit will prevent it from
      actuating the locks, as will a physical break in the wiring from
      the computer to the relay.  It can also be a break in the wiring
      that sends a signal from the rf receiver to the computer.<br>
    </p>
    <p>Too many shops today depend too heavily on scanners, and this
      sounds like a problem that requires some old-fashioned circuit
      tracing and fault-elimination logic.  <br>
    </p>
    <p>The problem I see about your jiggered switch arrangement is that
      the locks have to operate in two modes, locking and unlocking, and
      the relay used is probably a center-off, momentary switching
      type.  Trying to booger up the circuit with a secondary switch may
      make things worse, not better.  Do you know if the wiring
      schematics for this model and year are available online?  That
      would be a big help, knowing what's installed, rather than
      guessing.</p>
    <p><br>
    </p>
    <p>Cheers.<br>
    </p>
    <pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">-- 


Michael Porter
Roswell, NM


Never let anyone drive you crazy when you know it's within walking 
distance....</pre>
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