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## Re: [TR] Evapo-Rust has the formula changed?

 To: "don.hiscock@gmail.com" Re: [TR] Evapo-Rust has the formula changed? DAVID MASSEY Thu, 21 May 2020 21:53:23 +0000 (UTC) "Triumphs@autox.team.net" mharc@autox.team.net Triumphs@autox.team.net <66D9ED3E-6237-4C3E-9204-48905E613DAC@yahoo.com> <675750955.2024773.1590091553619@mail.yahoo.com> boundary="----=_Part_2076721_1297556620.1590098003486" x64; rv:76.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/76.0
 ```------=_Part_2076721_1297556620.1590098003486 boundary="----=_Part_2076720_1413595837.1590098003440" ------=_Part_2076720_1413595837.1590098003440 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I'm no chemist (electrical engineer, actually) but could it be that it is = easier to strip an iron atom from an oxide than it is to strip one from ano= ther iron atom.=C2=A0 Or, maybe it etches the solid iron as well but since = it is higher density the reduction is less noticeable. But I don't need to know how it works.=C2=A0 I just use it. =20 Dave=20 =20 =20 -----Original Message----- From: Don Hiscock To: DAVID MASSEY Cc: notakitcar@yahoo.com ; Triumphs@autox.team.net Sent: Thu, May 21, 2020 3:14 pm Subject: Re: [TR] Evapo-Rust has the formula changed? That whole business of chelation seems like a red herring, Dave, to mask wh= at's probably a pretty simple formulation.=C2=A0 I can't see how chelation = would convert rust.=C2=A0 Now a chelating agent might very well be used in = the formula to bind or isolate iron removed during the de-rusting process -= - they list a chelating agent on their=C2=A0safety data sheet -- ,but a che= mist wouldn't normally think of chelation and corrosion-reversal as the sam= e thing. On Thu, May 21, 2020 at 3:05 PM DAVID MASSEY wrote: I have been told that it is a chelate, an organic compound that bonds with= metal atoms.=C2=A0 Some formulations are used heavy metal detoxification.= =C2=A0 I've been told that it is non-toxic and you can drink it (I haven't = tried).=C2=A0 I've also been told by one user that he pitches the used solu= tion onto the grass with no ill effects. I've used it with good results but as you say, it doesn't work fast.=C2=A0 = Over time it will start turning your parts black which, I guess, is an indi= cation that it is time to replace it.=C2=A0=20 =20 Dave=20 =20 =20 -----Original Message----- From: Don Hiscock To: bill beecher Cc: Triumphs Sent: Thu, May 21, 2020 2:41 pm Subject: Re: [TR] Evapo-Rust has the formula changed? That's the=C2=A0one I use all the time, Bill.=C2=A0 I have some things in a= n Evapo-Rust bath as we speak, in fact.=C2=A0 Check online (Amazon, perhaps= ) -- sometimes they have a 3.5-gallon pail with a parts basket strainer for= a good price.=C2=A0 The stuff isn't cheap, unfortunately.=C2=A0 About \$10-= 15/gallon is a decent price. Some people initially=C2=A0think Evapo-Rust is like naval jelly or one of t= he many other phosphoric acid-based rust treatments, a brush-on/spray on sy= stem.=C2=A0 It's not.=C2=A0 It's a dilute, gentle amber watery fluid in whi= ch=C2=A0parts are immersed in for anywhere from hours to days.=C2=A0 It wor= ks for a while until it gets black and exhausted, whereupon it's pitched fo= r fresh.=C2=A0 The black stuff, as best the chemist in me can guess, is red= uced iron as the oxide has electrons donated to it by Evapo-Rust converting= it to elemental iron or a sulfide.=C2=A0 I'm guessing Evapo-Rust is a redu= cing agent, an electron donor, not an acid like naval jelly, vinegar, muria= tic acid, citric acid or the other "etching" systems commonly used.=C2=A0 (= There's a chance, I guess, that it's some sort of buffered acid.=C2=A0 I do= n't think=C2=A0so, but I need to beg/borrow/steal some analytical time from= friends to see what we can measure.) On Thu, May 21, 2020 at 2:07 PM bill beecher wrote: Is it this one, or the gel? Serenity Now...... On May 21, 2020, at 12:58 PM, Don Hiscock wrote: =EF=BB=BFThere are two suppliers of Evapo-Rust, due to some weird licensing= I've never figured=C2=A0out.=C2=A0 There's "real" Evapo-Rust in the silver= -gray container from Harris International Labs, and there's "licensed" Evap= o-Rust from Orison=C2=A0Marketing. It may be arbitrary and non-technical, but I will only use silver-gray "rea= l" Evapo-Rust now.=C2=A0 I think it works better.=C2=A0 Which=C2=A0one are = you referring to, Sujit? For those who don't know the stuff, here's some recent fun I had with=C2=A0= some old spark plugs left in a workbench drawer by the previous owners of m= y house twenty-plus years ago.=C2=A0 These plugs are older than that.=C2=A0= Before and after Evapo-Rust shown.https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-dZHg= WFf/0/b8d9aad5/X5/i-dZHgWFf-X5.jpg https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-GRnjRNV/0/977f00be/X5/i-GRnjRNV-X5.jpg Here's the hose clamp from the original heater on my TR3B before and after = Evapo-Rust.https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-JsZ3sbQ/0/fff5f613/X5/i-JsZ3= sbQ-X5.jpg https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-ZJtx4z7/0/4d9f81b5/X5/i-ZJtx4z7-X5.jpg On Thu, May 21, 2020 at 12:39 PM Sujit Roy wrote: I like this and have been using=C2=A0it for a few years now. but have notic= ed the new batch is a different=C2=A0color, more clear, and appears more li= quidy. It seems to wok=C2=A0but seems to go black quicker. Anyone folks using this stuff noticed similar observations? Do I need to fi= nd something else? Sujit=C2=A0 --=20 Sujit Roy Cupertino, California https://triumphstagblog.wordpress.com/ ** triumphs@autox.team.net ** Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/triumphs=C2=A0 http://www.team.net/a= rchive ock@gmail.com ** triumphs@autox.team.net ** Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/triumphs =C2=A0http://www.team.net/a= rchive ar@yahoo.com ** triumphs@autox.team.net ** Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/triumphs http://www.team.net/archiv= e sey@cs.com ------=_Part_2076720_1413595837.1590098003440 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I'm no chemist (electrical engineer, actually) but c= ould it be that it is easier to strip an iron atom from an oxide than it is= to strip one from another iron atom.  Or, maybe it etches the solid i= ron as well but since it is higher density the reduction is less noticeable= .

But I don't need to know how it works.  I just u= se it.

Dave

-----= Original Message-----
From: Don Hiscock <don.hiscock@gmail.com>
To: DAVID MASSEY <dave1massey@cs.com>
Cc: notakitcar@yahoo.com <notakitcar@yahoo.com>; Triumphs@autox.team.= net <Triumphs@autox.team.net>
Sent: Thu, May 21, 2020 3:14 pm
Subject: Re: [TR] Evapo-Rust has the formula changed?

That whole business of chelation seems like a red herring,= Dave, to mask what's probably a pretty simple formulation.  I can't s= ee how chelation would convert rust.  Now a chelating agent might very= well be used in the formula to bind or isolate iron removed during the de-= rusting process -- they list a chelating agent on their safety data sh= eet -- ,but a chemist wouldn't normally think of chelation and corrosion-re= versal as the same thing.

On Thu, May 21, 2020 at = 3:05 PM DAVID MASSEY <dave1massey@cs.com> wrote:
I have been told that it is a chelate, an organic co= mpound that bonds with metal atoms.  Some formulations are used heavy = metal detoxification.  I've been told that it is non-toxic and you can= drink it (I haven't tried).  I've also been told by one user that he = pitches the used solution onto the grass with no ill effects.

I've used it with good results but as you say, it doe= sn't work fast.  Over time it will start turning your parts black whic= h, I guess, is an indication that it is time to replace it.

Dave

---= --Original Message-----
From: Don Hiscock <don.hiscock@gmail.com>
To: bill beecher <notakitcar@yahoo.com>
Cc: Triumphs <Triumphs@autox.team.net>
Sent: Thu, May 21, 2020 2:41 pm
Subject: Re: [TR] Evapo-Rust has the formula changed?

That's the one I use all the time, Bill.  I have= some things in an Evapo-Rust bath as we speak, in fact.  Check online= (Amazon, perhaps) -- sometimes they have a 3.5-gallon pail with a parts ba= sket strainer for a good price.  The stuff isn't cheap, unfortunately.=   About \$10-15/gallon is a decent price.

Some people initially think Evapo-Rust is like naval jelly or one= of the many other phosphoric acid-based rust treatments, a brush-on/spray = on system.  It's not.  It's a dilute, gentle amber watery fluid i= n which parts are immersed in for anywhere from hours to days.  I= t works for a while until it gets black and exhausted, whereupon it's pitch= ed for fresh.  The black stuff, as best the chemist in me can guess, i= s reduced iron as the oxide has electrons donated to it by Evapo-Rust conve= rting it to elemental iron or a sulfide.  I'm guessing Evapo-Rust is a= reducing agent, an electron donor, not an acid like naval jelly, vinegar, = muriatic acid, citric acid or the other "etching" systems commonly used.&nb= sp; (There's a chance, I guess, that it's some sort of buffered acid. = I don't think so, but I need to beg/borrow/steal some analytical time= from friends to see what we can measure.)

On Thu, May 21, 2020 at 2:07 PM bill beecher <notakitcar@yahoo.com> = wrote:
Is it this one, or the gel?

Serenity Now......

On May 21, 2020, at 12:58 PM, Don Hiscock <don.hiscock@gmail.com> wrote:

=EF=BB=BF
There are two suppliers of Evapo-Rust, due to some weird l= icensing I've never figured out.  There's "real" Evapo-Rust in th= e silver-gray container from Harris International Labs, and there's "licens= ed" Evapo-Rust from Orison Marketing.

It may be arbitrary and non-technical, but I will only use silver-gray= "real" Evapo-Rust now.  I think it works better.  Which one= are you referring to, Sujit?

For those who don't know the stuff, here's some recent fun I had with&= nbsp;some old spark plugs left in a workbench drawer by the previous owners= of my house twenty-plus years ago.  These plugs are older than that.&= nbsp; Before and after Evapo-Rust shown.

Here's the hose clamp from the original heater on my TR3B before and a= fter Evapo-Rust.

On Thu, May 21, 2020 at 12:39 PM Sujit Roy <triumphstag@gmail.com>= wrote:
I like this and have been using it for a few years no= w. but have noticed the new batch is a different color, more clear, an= d appears more liquidy. It seems to wok but seems to go black quicker.

Anyone folks using this stuff noticed similar observations? Do I need = to find something else?

Sujit

--
Sujit Roy
Cupertino, California
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