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I think Dave Massey is spot on in highlighting the things that can go wrong w=
ith old looms. He=E2=80=99s also correct in saying the cars were built to a b=
udget and I=E2=80=99d add they were never built to last as long as so many h=
ave. Ten years was the engineered life expectancy. Dave is also prudent to c=
omment on the very limited number of fuses for the US market. However, it=E2=
=80=99s worth pointing out that in the days of yore, cars bound for Italy an=
d Sweden had completely different looms. IIRC, Italy spec cars had 12 main f=
uses and Sweden a few less. Sweden also banned the plating that was used on a=
ll hardware and fasteners and insisted on another form of plating. Trouble i=
s, I can=E2=80=99t remember what it was now. So, if you=E2=80=99re planning o=
n a new loom, get one made in Italy to original spec. Magneti Marelli used t=
o have a subsidiary that made them.
Jonmac
At the Battle of Waterloo, 1815:
Lord Uxbridge: =E2=80=9CBy God, Sir - I=E2=80=99ve lost my leg=E2=80=9D
Duke of Wellington: =E2=80=9CBy God, Sir - so you have!=E2=80=9D
> On 24 Jun 2020, at 15:52, bill beecher <notakitcar@yahoo.com> wrote:
>=20
> I counted, I only have two(2) fuses on my =E2=80=9858 TR3. Where might t=
he other be?
> Thx,
> Bill B
> TS30800L
>=20
> Serenity Now......
>=20
> On Jun 24, 2020, at 9:38 AM, DAVID MASSEY <dave1massey@cs.com> wrote:
>=20
> =EF=BB=BF
> Keep in mind that these wire harnesses, like the car as a whole, was desig=
ned to a budget. These harnesses had three (count 'em, 3) fuses. As such s=
ome items were unfused like the headlamps and the coil. And those things th=
at are fused shared a fuse so the fuse had to be sized to carry the current f=
or everything on that circuit. But the wires were sized for the particular l=
oad. A thinner wire will have a nigher resistance and under short-circuit c=
onditions the current can be limited to a level that will not blow the fuse b=
ut the current will cause enough heating to cause the insulation to melt.
>=20
> Another factor against us is the age of the harness. The connector contac=
ts get corroded and will get hot under normal circumstances. Wire strands c=
an fatigue and break within the insulation again resulting in overheating un=
der normal use. The insulation gets stiff and cracks exposing the wires wit=
hin. Lots of potential failure modes here. =20
>=20
> Compare this design to those found in modern cars you will see dozens of f=
uses. Sure there are a lot more electrical items but most things have their=
own fuses. This means you can size the fuse more appropriately for the wir=
e used to power that device. Also the connectors used are water tight and d=
on't corrode as quickly. Also, they are, on the whole, a lot younger and th=
erefore retain more of their original integrety.
>=20
> But a fresh works well enough so if you fear a melt-down a new harness may=
be a good investment.
>=20
> Dave=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
> -----Original Message-----
> From: bill beecher <notakitcar@yahoo.com>
> To: Tom Householder <trhouse@columbus.rr.com>
> Cc: Triumphs@Autox.team.net daily digest <triumphs@autox.team.net>; FOT Li=
st <fot@autox.team.net>
> Sent: Tue, Jun 23, 2020 8:52 am
> Subject: Re: [TR] TR2-3 electrical melt downs
>=20
> Have a friend with a TR6 that had a significant meltdown behind the dash. =
I should think, given the right set of weaknesses, most any section could m=
elt.=20
> Bill B
>=20
> Serenity Now......
>=20
> On Jun 23, 2020, at 4:52 AM, Tom Householder <trhouse@columbus.rr.com> wro=
te:
>=20
> =EF=BB=BFOver the years I have experienced and seen harness melt down in t=
he looms to the tail lights .. anyone ever had an under dash melt down?
>=20
> Trying to answer a question asked of me.=20
>=20
> Tom=20
> ** triumphs@autox.team.net **
>=20
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/triumphs http://www.team.net/archiv=
e
>=20
> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/triumphs/notakit=
car@yahoo.com
>=20
>=20
> ** triumphs@autox.team.net **
>=20
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/triumphs http://www.team.net/archiv=
e
>=20
> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/triumphs/dave1ma=
ssey@cs.com
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>=20
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/triumphs http://www.team.net/archi=
ve
>=20
> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/triumphs/john.ma=
cartney@ukpips.org.uk
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<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"content-type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3D=
utf-8"></head><body dir=3D"auto">I think Dave Massey is spot on in highlight=
ing the things that can go wrong with old looms. He=E2=80=99s also correct i=
n saying the cars were built to a budget and I=E2=80=99d add they were never=
built to last as long as so many have. Ten years was the engineered life ex=
pectancy. Dave is also prudent to comment on the very limited number of fuse=
s for the US market. However, it=E2=80=99s worth pointing out that in the da=
ys of yore, cars bound for Italy and Sweden had completely different looms. I=
IRC, Italy spec cars had 12 main fuses and Sweden a few less. Sweden also ba=
nned the plating that was used on all hardware and fasteners and insisted on=
another form of plating. Trouble is, I can=E2=80=99t remember what it was n=
ow. So, if you=E2=80=99re planning on a new loom, get one made in Italy to o=
riginal spec. Magneti Marelli used to have a subsidiary that made them.<div>=
<br></div><div>Jonmac<br><br><div id=3D"AppleMailSignature" dir=3D"ltr">At t=
he Battle of Waterloo, 1815:<div>Lord Uxbridge: =E2=80=9CBy God, Sir -=
I=E2=80=99ve lost my leg=E2=80=9D</div><div>Duke of Wellington: =E2=80=9CBy=
God, Sir - so you have!=E2=80=9D</div><div><br></div></div><div dir=3D"ltr"=
><br>On 24 Jun 2020, at 15:52, bill beecher <<a href=3D"mailto:notakitcar=
@yahoo.com">notakitcar@yahoo.com</a>> wrote:<br><br></div><blockquote typ=
e=3D"cite"><div dir=3D"ltr"><meta http-equiv=3D"content-type" content=3D"tex=
t/html; charset=3Dutf-8">I counted, I only have two(2) fuses on my =E2=80=98=
58 TR3. Where might the other be?<div>Thx,</div><div>Bill B</div><div=
>TS30800L<br><br><div dir=3D"ltr">Serenity Now......</div><div dir=3D"ltr"><=
br>On Jun 24, 2020, at 9:38 AM, DAVID MASSEY <<a href=3D"mailto:dave1mass=
ey@cs.com">dave1massey@cs.com</a>> wrote:<br><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">=EF=
=BB=BF
<div style=3D"color:black;font: 12pt Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">
<div> <font size=3D"3">Keep in mind that these wire harnesses, like the car a=
s a whole, was designed to a budget. These harnesses had three (count '=
em, 3) fuses. As such some items were unfused like the headlamps and t=
he coil. And those things that are fused shared a fuse so the fuse had=
to be sized to carry the current for everything on that circuit. But t=
he wires were sized for the particular load. A thinner wire will have a=
nigher resistance and under short-circuit conditions the current can b=
e limited to a level that will not blow the fuse but the current will cause e=
nough heating to cause the insulation to melt.</font></div>
<div><font size=3D"3"><br>
</font></div>
<div><font size=3D"3">Another factor against us is the age of the harness.&n=
bsp; The connector contacts get corroded and will get hot under normal circu=
mstances. Wire strands can fatigue and break within the insulation aga=
in resulting in overheating under normal use. The insulation gets stif=
f and cracks exposing the wires within. Lots of potential failure mode=
s here. <br>
</font></div>
<div><font size=3D"3"><br>
</font></div>
<div><font size=3D"3">Compare this design to those found in modern cars you w=
ill see dozens of fuses. Sure there are a lot more electrical items bu=
t most things have their own fuses. This means you can size the fuse m=
ore appropriately for the wire used to power that device. Also the con=
nectors used are water tight and don't corrode as quickly. Also, they a=
re, on the whole, a lot younger and therefore retain more of their original i=
ntegrety.</font></div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><font size=3D"3">But a fresh works well enough so if you fear a melt-do=
wn a new harness may be a good investment.</font><br>
</div>
<div> <br>
</div>
<div style=3D"clear:both"><font size=3D"4">Dave </font><br>
<br>
</div>
<div> <br>
</div>
<div> <br>
</div>
<div style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica;font-size:10pt;color:black">-----O=
riginal Message-----<br>
From: bill beecher <<a href=3D"mailto:notakitcar@yahoo.com";>notakitcar@ya=
hoo.com</a>><br>
To: Tom Householder <<a href=3D"mailto:trhouse@columbus.rr.com";>trhouse@c=
olumbus.rr.com</a>><br>
Cc: <a href=3D"mailto:Triumphs@Autox.team.net";>Triumphs@Autox.team.net</a> d=
aily digest <<a href=3D"mailto:triumphs@autox.team.net";>triumphs@autox.te=
am.net</a>>; FOT List <<a href=3D"mailto:fot@autox.team.net";>fot@autox=
.team.net</a>><br>
Sent: Tue, Jun 23, 2020 8:52 am<br>
Subject: Re: [TR] TR2-3 electrical melt downs<br>
<br>
<div dir=3D"ltr">Have a friend with a TR6 that had a significant meltdown be=
hind the dash. I should think, given the right set of weaknesses, most=
any section could melt. <br clear=3D"none">Bill B<br clear=3D"none"><br cle=
ar=3D"none">Serenity Now......<br clear=3D"none"><br clear=3D"none">On Jun 2=
3, 2020, at 4:52 AM, Tom Householder <<a shape=3D"rect" ymailto=3D"mailto=
:trhouse@columbus.rr.com" href=3D"mailto:trhouse@columbus.rr.com";>trhouse@co=
lumbus.rr.com</a>> wrote:<br clear=3D"none"><br clear=3D"none">=EF=BB=BFO=
ver the years I have experienced and seen harness melt down in the looms to t=
he tail lights .. anyone ever had an under dash melt down?<br clear=3D"none"=
><br clear=3D"none">Trying to answer a question asked of me. <br clear=3D"no=
ne"><br clear=3D"none">Tom <br clear=3D"none">** <a shape=3D"rect" ymailto=3D=
"mailto:triumphs@autox.team.net"; href=3D"mailto:triumphs@autox.team.net";>tri=
umphs@autox.team.net</a> **<br clear=3D"none"><br clear=3D"none">Donate: <a s=
hape=3D"rect" href=3D"http://www.team.net/donate.html"; target=3D"_blank">htt=
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" href=3D"http://www.team.net/pipermail/triumphs"; target=3D"_blank">http://w=
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