richard nichols wrote:
> Gonna have to use more critical thinking, guys, when considering others'
> ideas. "Critical thinking", as in "look beneath the surface".
Yes, but what I have seen is "looking beneath the surface". The
difference I see Richard is that you are seeing based on your situation
with your car...which is looking maybe a bit too deep. Others see that
beneath the surface lies an "I Class" issue, wrong or right. In either
case, I would not assume one's critical thinking to be better. I think.
> As I understand Ray's original thought, if I may "reflect" what I think he
> said but in just a few words: "is there a way for those driving on street
> tires to compete for trophies when their cars are prepped to SP rules?". If
> I'm wrong, Ray, correct me, please!
I thought we were talking about stock street tire classes?
There is already the ability to compete for trophies. The issue here is
the PAX being used for street tires, and that the PAX changes. The PAX
has to change, so that is a silly issue. The issue about being 'fair' I
see as not solvable for everyone. The issue of street tire vs R tires
has already been debated and any region can (and possibly should) create
a street tire class.
Consider that each class has a huge number of cars. 95%+ of these cars
are not going to be that competitive. That is not fair, but is the
compromise so we do not have 5000 classes. In each class, there is a
range of cars. HS has a huge range. There is a very good chance that
Ray's HS car is THE CAR for the class. But, classing/PAX is based on the
fastest HS car out there..with the best tires and driver. Without
commenting on Ray's driving, his car may be unfairly classed, regardless
of the PAX issue.
I think some folks are going to react to the fact that a huge percentage
of this sport is inherently unfair and a huge part of this sport is
being able to rise past this "unfairness" and win anyways.
> When someone posts an idea, meritorious or not, consider this analogy,
> please. When I ask my teenage children if they've seen one of my tools,
> they say, "Nope". When I ask my adult wife if she's seen one of my tools,
> she says, "No, but have you thought of looking (insert most likely place she
> can think of)?"
> Guess which one is more helpful, adult, and mature? So when we say, "I see
> where you're trying to go with this, but think you're off track, how about
> this approach", *that's* helpful.
Yes, but if you asked your wife everyday where that SAME tool was, would
the answer change? 8-)
Here is my take:
1. The idea of a percentage is doable, but will be error prone as the
PAX reflects max prepped cars and some cars will be hurt more by the
street tires than others. This will also have more impact by course
design. No matter what, someone is going to be on the short end of the
stick. You really need to have a street tire class.
2. If you have any street tire class, someone will be more serious and
will show up on shaved expensive tires. I know I would. No matter what,
there are people out there that are more serious than you and care
enough to win.
3. If one's focus is on driving and enjoyment, as opposed to "winning",
then this is less of an issue. Not to say the fight should not be
fought, but the correct thing is to lobby/create a local class that you
think it should be. If no one locally agrees with you, then perhaps some
introspection is in order.
4. You have to expect some feedback from team.net as this is not posted
in a vacuum. We have hashed over this before and history counts. This
time I felt that Ray posted a well thought out, articulate, and less
caustic approach with a possible solution, which is worthy of
discussion. Note, I said *this time*. 8-)
5. What if someone shows up on street tires and stock shocks and
swaybar, since he is less than semi-serious. Should he also get a new
class? Why just tires? This could get very complicated if we go to a
points based system for mods and will be less than exact also.
6. If my times in a skinny street tired HS car was even close to a SS
car's pax, I would be happy. 8-)
So, Ray, how are your times? What car do you drive exactly? What region?