On Tue, 11 May 2004 Stand0nIt@aol.com wrote:
> No, this horse is not dead... lets see how much more of a beating it can
> Mr. Andy Wrote...
> NO. Hell no. U/B in ST was eliminated because lots of competitors in
> the class whined about it after it had been in place for three years,
> and because the STAC recommended the change.
> -- Well... not exactly... I applaud the use of fact backed opinion to
> make the opinion seem as though it is an actual fact. However the only
> valid part of this particular statement is that the STAC recommended the
Actually, I didn't write the above. I was quoting Jay.
> More from Mr Andy...
> UD/BD got removed from ST* because an old civic could weigh 30 lbs
> lighter when built using UD/BD than an old civic could weigh without the
> -- I think it was a bit more broad that this. Yes, the Civic was the
> first car to gain greatly from UD/BD, but no one tried it with a RX-3,
> RSX, or a later model Civic. I was more concerned with the prospect of
> one of the fuel economy civics with a VTEC motor than I was with the
> FrankinCivic that were build last year.
Now _that_ I actually did write. :-) Yes, as I implied, at the time
there were some people pointing out how update/backdate could be applied
to other cars. But most people were concerned about an '88 civic.
> Mr Andy Continued...
> In the process, lots of normal modifications (final drive changes,
> junkyard motor swaps, using a chassis brace from another iteration of
> the model, etc. etc.) got thrown away with the bathwater.
> -- Even within UD/BD you could not do final drive without doing the
> entire drive train per my limited understanding of such things. As for
> junkyard motor swaps as long as your engine code is correct you are
> welcome to do that now. I have one in my car as we speak. Bolt on
> Chassis bracing such as strut braces and stress bars is allowed with the
> current rule set.
There are examples of cars that had the same drivetrain except for final
drive (i.e. an earlier year had a taller gear or whatever, with other
stuff the same). Bolt on chasis bracing seems to be limited to only "two
attachment points" type setups, vs. the common X brace from a convertible
e36 bolted to a 325is (for example, because I'm familier with that one).
As to a junkyard motor swap example that wouldn't work now but would
before... A '95 DOHC neon motor isn't legal in a '98 chassis due to an
extremely minor cam change. Previously it would have been fine.
> > If you like where we ended up... Great! But let's not have
> > any illusions
> > about how we got there.
> -- AGREED :)
Yeah, its a rule now, so whatever. I still think its stupid, but its
there and those civics are all 30 lbs heavier so the world must be a