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Hi, Paul, good thoughts, but this is exactly the same breather and catch =
can configuration I=E2=80=99ve been running for the past six years, with =
no issues.
There was no oil leaking out around the valve cover gasket itself, =
though it was blowing out these breather holes and the pinhole in the =
top of the valve cover cap.
Return of oil to the crank - oil flows back from the head through all of =
the pushrod galleys. I cannot see how they could possibly be =
obstructed.
You do bring up an interesting point - is there possibly substantially =
more flow to the rocker arm assembly all of a sudden? The only way this =
could happen is if there were significant wear on the assembly that now =
allows a huge oil flow.
This was not a problem that was building all weekend. I have the bonnet =
open after every race, have a meticulous engine compartment with a dry =
engine and clean surfaces - this was a sudden change from the last race =
saturday to after the only race sunday.
On May 25, 2019, at 2:26 PM, Paul Ricco <paulricco@att.net> wrote:
Scott,
When we first bought our car we chased a lot of breathing issues and oil =
being pushed in strange places. I ended up fabricating a breather tank =
so and some custom take-offs to solve our issues. It allowed me to =
breath the engine the way we wanted and put the tank where we wanted it. =
It has taken a lot of pressure off of the engine seals.
If you do not have a crank breather, then it sounds like the oil has be =
coming from your valve cover to your catch tank. Is that a correct =
assumption?
If so, I have 2 questions:
1. Did the oil level raise much higher than normal under the valve =
cover? Is it possible that something has restricted the oil=E2=80=99s =
ability to flow from the head back into to crankcase?=20
2. Is your catch tank located lower than the breather take-off? If it =
is, then excess oil under the valve cover would have followed the path =
of lease resistance to your catch tank.
I only ask, because it sounds like for that much liquid to have ended up =
in the catch tank, the oil level had to have gotten high under the valve =
cover.
We have friends that run a team that supports about 8 cars. They =
honestly admitted to oil level problems being cause by about six people =
=E2=80=9Cchecking and topping off the oil=E2=80=9D before every session. =
Pretty funny, that a pro team could have that kind of fun. I do not =
think that is your issue.
My curiosity would be think through the flow of the oil, and why did it =
end up in the can.
If your only breather is at the valve cover, then there had to have been =
a lot of oil under there. Why did it not follow the returns and flow =
back into the sump?
Paul Ricco=20
> On May 25, 2019, at 12:36 PM, Scott Janzen via Fot <fot@autox.team.net =
>=20
> OK, I re-ran the comp and leakdown tests. Replaced a gauge that was =
reading low on the leakdown tester, so I now trust the results. With the =
exception of #3, leakdown was almost all piston ring leak-by. #3 had =
exhaust noise too.
>=20
> 1 - cold leak 4%, hot leak 4%, hot comp 195, prior cold comp 200
> 2 - cold leak 9%, hot leak 12%, hot comp 175, pcc 180
> 3 - cold leak 15%, hot leak 16%, hot comp 170, pcc 180
> 4- cold leak 3%, hot leak 3%, hot comp 195, pcc 195
> 5- cold leak 4%, hot leak 4%, hot comp 172, pcc 190
> 6 - cold leak 3%, hot leak 5%, hot comp 170, pcc 185
>=20
> The leakdown results look good to me and are probably valve related. =
I=E2=80=99m used to seeing higher numbers on a season-old motor.
> Compression - I don=E2=80=99t know if the drop on 5 and 6 is normal =
for cold to hot testing. What would cause this relative to cylinders =
with almost no change?
> Plugs - Kas asked about the plugs - When I pulled them the first time, =
the insulators were very light tan, almost white, with tan electrodes - =
plugs looked the way they usually look in this motor. After warm-up, =
they got darker, but not surprising since it was mostly idle time and =
nothing under load. No oil on the plugs. No visible oil coming out the =
tailpipe, same color back there as usual.
> BTW, my lap times on the last session were a second off the weekend =
best, but so were most of my competitors, so the engine still seems =
strong.
>=20
> At this point, unless anyone has more suggestions short of tear-down I =
guess I=E2=80=99ll run it again as-is. The oil venting points (two =
valve cover hoses) have not changed, so there was nothing that would =
have dumped more oil than usual. I have no block vent, so nothing to =
blame there.=20
>=20
> I could have had a mind fart and run with the accusump valve closed =
(it=E2=80=99s manual) but when I pulled the car off the trailer there =
was oil and pressure in the accusump, so I must have shut it off full. =
Thus, there should not have been excess oil in the pan.
>=20
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Fot <fot-bounces@autox.team.net =
>> Sent: Tuesday, May 21, 2019 10:32 PM
>> To: 'Friends of Triumph' Triumph <fot@autox.team.net =
>> Subject: [Fot] Oil Blow-by Cause?
>>=20
>> I just had a great weekend at Summit Point, perfect weather, four =
days and
>> lots of track time, some quick laps and good racing.
>> After my last session, I noticed some dripping oil as I put the car =
in the trailer.
>> Got it home to find a half full catch can (1 pint?), and evidence of =
oil blowing
>> out of the valve cover cap vent hole.
>> Tonight I ran a compression test and leakdown test. Cold engine =
results:
>>=20
>> 1 - 200 and 2%
>> 2- 180 and 6%
>> 3 - 180 and 9%
>> 4 - 195 and 0%
>> 5 - 190 and 0%
>> 6 - 185 and 0%
>>=20
>> Note - I suspect my longacre leakdown gauge may not be reading quite =
right,
>> as when i have the air side set to 100, the leakdown % on the last =
three is
>> slightly below zero. So, perhaps the leakdown on the first three is =
higher.
>> There was no excess oil until the last session. Oil pressure is =
about 50 hot at
>> idle and 65 - 75 at speed, depending on RPM.
>> EGT readings remained in the 1200 - 1250 range across three monitored
>> cylinders at top speed What do i have - failing rings?
>> Any diagnosis or tests you recommend before I start pulling the thing =
apart
>> would be appreciated.
>>=20
>> Triumphs racing - I=E2=80=99m sure I=E2=80=99m missing a few but this =
is who I remember.
>> TR3 - John Hasty, Henry Frye, John Styduhar
>> GT6 - me, Paul King, Jason Sukey, Jay De Pol until his diff case =
broke Spitfire -
>> Russ Moore, Marty Sukey, Jeff Govert, Kent Bain, others
>> Tr4 - Mark Wheatley, Allen Goode, I=E2=80=99m missing at least =
another one
>>=20
>> Scott Janzen
>=20
>=20
> _______________________________________________
>=20
> http://www.fot-racing.com
>=20
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Archive: http://autox.team.net/archive =
http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot
> Unsubscribe/Manage: =
http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/paulricco@att.net
>=20
>=20
--Apple-Mail=_D70373F7-72CD-4933-8299-E9247F456DFE
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
charset=utf-8
<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Dutf-8"></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class=3D"">Hi, =
Paul, good thoughts, but this is exactly the same breather and catch can =
configuration I=E2=80=99ve been running for the past six years, with no =
issues.<div class=3D"">There was no oil leaking out around the valve =
cover gasket itself, though it was blowing out these breather holes and =
the pinhole in the top of the valve cover cap.</div><div class=3D"">Return=
of oil to the crank - oil flows back from the head through all of the =
pushrod galleys. I cannot see how they could possibly be =
obstructed.</div><div class=3D"">You do bring up an interesting point - =
is there possibly substantially more flow to the rocker arm assembly all =
of a sudden? The only way this could happen is if there were =
significant wear on the assembly that now allows a huge oil =
flow.</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">This was =
not a problem that was building all weekend. I have the bonnet =
open after every race, have a meticulous engine compartment with a dry =
engine and clean surfaces - this was a sudden change from the last race =
saturday to after the only race sunday.<br class=3D""><div><br =
class=3D""><div class=3D"">On May 25, 2019, at 2:26 PM, Paul Ricco =
<<a href=3D"mailto:paulricco@att.net"; =
class=3D"">paulricco@att.net</a>> wrote:</div><br =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=3D""><meta =
http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3Dutf-8" =
class=3D""><div style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: =
space; line-break: after-white-space;" class=3D"">Scott,<div =
class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">When we first bought our =
car we chased a lot of breathing issues and oil being pushed in strange =
places. I ended up fabricating a breather tank so and some custom =
take-offs to solve our issues. It allowed me to breath the engine =
the way we wanted and put the tank where we wanted it. It has =
taken a lot of pressure off of the engine seals.</div><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">If you do not have a crank breather, =
then it sounds like the oil has be coming from your valve cover to your =
catch tank. Is that a correct assumption?</div><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">If so, I have 2 questions:</div><div =
class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">1. Did the oil =
level raise much higher than normal under the valve cover? Is it =
possible that something has restricted the oil=E2=80=99s ability to flow =
from the head back into to crankcase? </div><div class=3D"">2. =
Is your catch tank located lower than the breather take-off? =
If it is, then excess oil under the valve cover would have =
followed the path of lease resistance to your catch tank.</div><div =
class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">I only ask, because it =
sounds like for that much liquid to have ended up in the catch tank, the =
oil level had to have gotten high under the valve cover.</div><div =
class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">We have friends that run =
a team that supports about 8 cars. They honestly admitted to oil =
level problems being cause by about six people =E2=80=9Cchecking and =
topping off the oil=E2=80=9D before every session. Pretty funny, =
that a pro team could have that kind of fun. I do not think that =
is your issue.</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div =
class=3D"">My curiosity would be think through the flow of the oil, and =
why did it end up in the can.</div><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">If your only breather is at the valve =
cover, then there had to have been a lot of oil under there. Why =
did it not follow the returns and flow back into the sump?</div><div =
class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">Paul Ricco <br =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><br class=3D""><blockquote type=3D"cite" =
class=3D""><div class=3D"">On May 25, 2019, at 12:36 PM, Scott Janzen =
via Fot <<a href=3D"mailto:fot@autox.team.net"; =
class=3D"">fot@autox.team.net</a>> wrote:</div><br =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=3D""><meta =
http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3Dutf-8" =
class=3D""><div style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: =
space; line-break: after-white-space;" class=3D""><div class=3D"">OK, I =
re-ran the comp and leakdown tests. Replaced a gauge that was =
reading low on the leakdown tester, so I now trust the results. With the =
exception of #3, leakdown was almost all piston ring leak-by. #3 =
had exhaust noise too.</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div =
class=3D"">1 - cold leak 4%, hot leak 4%, hot comp 195, prior cold comp =
200</div><div class=3D"">2 - cold leak 9%, hot leak 12%, hot comp 175, =
pcc 180</div><div class=3D"">3 - cold leak 15%, hot leak 16%, hot comp =
170, pcc 180</div><div class=3D"">4- cold leak 3%, hot leak 3%, hot comp =
195, pcc 195</div><div class=3D"">5- cold leak 4%, hot leak 4%, hot comp =
172, pcc 190</div><div class=3D"">6 - cold leak 3%, hot leak 5%, =
hot comp 170, pcc 185</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div=
class=3D"">The leakdown results look good to me and are probably valve =
related. I=E2=80=99m used to seeing higher numbers on a season-old =
motor.</div><div class=3D""><b class=3D"">Compression </b>- I don=E2=80=99=
t know if the drop on 5 and 6 is normal for cold to hot testing. =
What would cause this relative to cylinders with almost no =
change?</div><div class=3D"">Plugs - Kas asked about the plugs - When I =
pulled them the first time, the insulators were very light tan, almost =
white, with tan electrodes - plugs looked the way they usually look in =
this motor. After warm-up, they got darker, but not surprising =
since it was mostly idle time and nothing under load. No oil on =
the plugs. No visible oil coming out the tailpipe, same color back =
there as usual.</div><div class=3D"">BTW, my lap times on the last =
session were a second off the weekend best, but so were most of my =
competitors, so the engine still seems strong.</div><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">At this point, unless anyone has more =
suggestions short of tear-down I guess I=E2=80=99ll run it again as-is. =
The oil venting points (two valve cover hoses) have not changed, =
so there was nothing that would have dumped more oil than usual. I =
have no block vent, so nothing to blame there. </div><div =
class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">I could have had a mind =
fart and run with the accusump valve closed (it=E2=80=99s manual) but =
when I pulled the car off the trailer there was oil and pressure in the =
accusump, so I must have shut it off full. Thus, there should not =
have been excess oil in the pan.</div><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div=
class=3D""><br class=3D""><blockquote type=3D"cite" =
class=3D"">-----Original Message-----<br class=3D"">From: Fot <<a =
href=3D"mailto:fot-bounces@autox.team.net"; =
class=3D"">fot-bounces@autox.team.net</a>> On Behalf Of Scott Janzen =
via Fot<br class=3D"">Sent: Tuesday, May 21, 2019 10:32 PM<br =
class=3D"">To: 'Friends of Triumph' Triumph <<a =
href=3D"mailto:fot@autox.team.net"; =
class=3D"">fot@autox.team.net</a>><br class=3D"">Subject: [Fot] Oil =
Blow-by Cause?<br class=3D""><br class=3D"">I just had a great weekend =
at Summit Point, perfect weather, four days and<br class=3D"">lots of =
track time, some quick laps and good racing.<br class=3D"">After my last =
session, I noticed some dripping oil as I put the car in the trailer.<br =
class=3D"">Got it home to find a half full catch can (1 pint?), and =
evidence of oil blowing<br class=3D"">out of the valve cover cap vent =
hole.<br class=3D"">Tonight I ran a compression test and leakdown test. =
Cold engine results:<br class=3D""><br class=3D"">1 - 200 and =
2%<br class=3D"">2- 180 and 6%<br class=3D"">3 - 180 and 9%<br =
class=3D"">4 - 195 and 0%<br class=3D"">5 - 190 and 0%<br class=3D"">6 - =
185 and 0%<br class=3D""><br class=3D"">Note - I suspect my longacre =
leakdown gauge may not be reading quite right,<br class=3D"">as when i =
have the air side set to 100, the leakdown % on the last three is<br =
class=3D"">slightly below zero. So, perhaps the leakdown on the =
first three is higher.<br class=3D"">There was no excess oil until the =
last session. Oil pressure is about 50 hot at<br class=3D"">idle =
and 65 - 75 at speed, depending on RPM.<br class=3D"">EGT readings =
remained in the 1200 - 1250 range across three monitored<br =
class=3D"">cylinders at top speed What do i have - failing rings?<br =
class=3D"">Any diagnosis or tests you recommend before I start pulling =
the thing apart<br class=3D"">would be appreciated.<br class=3D""><br =
class=3D"">Triumphs racing - I=E2=80=99m sure I=E2=80=99m missing a few =
but this is who I remember.<br class=3D"">TR3 - John Hasty, Henry Frye, =
John Styduhar<br class=3D"">GT6 - me, Paul King, Jason Sukey, Jay De Pol =
until his diff case broke Spitfire -<br class=3D"">Russ Moore, Marty =
Sukey, Jeff Govert, Kent Bain, others<br class=3D"">Tr4 - Mark Wheatley, =
Allen Goode, I=E2=80=99m missing at least another one<br class=3D""><br =
class=3D"">Scott Janzen<br class=3D""></blockquote><br =
class=3D""></div></div></div><br =
class=3D""></div>_______________________________________________<br =
class=3D""><a href=3D"mailto:fot@autox.team.net"; =
class=3D"">fot@autox.team.net</a><br class=3D""><br class=3D""><a =
href=3D"http://www.fot-racing.com"; =
class=3D"">http://www.fot-racing.com</a><br class=3D""><br =
class=3D"">Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html<br class=3D"">Archive: =
http://autox.team.net/archive http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot<br =
class=3D"">Unsubscribe/Manage: =
http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/paulricco@att.net<br =
class=3D""><br class=3D""><br class=3D""></div></blockquote></div><br =
class=3D""></div></div></div></div><br class=3D""></div></body></html>=
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