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The extra stuff in the waiver matters. A straightforward wavier waves neglig=
ence claims (not claims gross negligence, recklessness or intentional miscon=
duct, depending on the state). A straightforward assumption of risk is an ac=
knowledgement that a participant is willingly and consensually taking a high=
er than normal risk. Both are accepted in the courts. Lawyers use the extra=
language in an attempt to add, subtly, more layers of liability protection w=
hen general law on waivers applies (i.e., there is no broader exemption stat=
ute such as those in Colorado for ski lifts). Moreover, the contractual pro=
visions on virus procedures should be in a separate contract =E2=80=94 not i=
n the waiver=E2=80=94 with remedies specified for breaches. The language ju=
st confuses people and makes insurance negotiations more complicated.
Dale Oesterle
- Sent from iPad
>> On May 17, 2020, at 4:52 PM, Gary Schneider <garygret@sbcglobal.net> wrot=
e:
> =EF=BB=BF
> I understand and sympathize with the waiver text concern - certainly no in=
surance company will ever write an under-broad one - but it appears to be ~9=
5% identical to the waiver we've been signing for many years. I had a 2014 B=
FR form deep in the files and scanned it to the attached PDF, along with the=
current waiver I just received from BFR Cindy. The footnote "2/09" seems to=
imply it goes back over a decade. I don't have the text memorized but I bel=
ieve the RA waiver is the same form.
>=20
> I've been a steward for maybe 20 years and our choice as race organizers h=
as always been binary: all sign the waiver or no insurance is provided. The t=
rack owners have no more choice in this than we do. Although the language is=
draconian, it is a given we have accepted to participate in our sport.=20
>=20
> Gary
>=20
> On Saturday, May 16, 2020, 10:23:16 PM CDT, Dale Oesterle via Fot <fot@aut=
ox.team.net> wrote:
>=20
>=20
> The waiver is legally over- broad [see, e.g., the =E2=80=9Cor otherwise la=
nguage=E2=80=9D] hoping a court will scale it back and apply it to the maxim=
um extent the law permits. [see the last section]. It is a drafting trick. W=
aivers usually cannot a apply to reckless or intentional misconduct (and in s=
ome states cannot apply to =E2=80=9Cgross negligence=E2=80=9D). Moreover, t=
he waiver in section 1 gives an immediate defense to all defendants (=E2=80=9C=
releasees=E2=80=9D) on the basis that the signer =E2=80=9Cfe[lt] unsafe=E2=80=
=9D (whatever that means) at some time before any injury and still participa=
ted [or did not give notice]. This is a trial lawyer=E2=80=99s delight and, a=
t minimum, will cause defense counsel to delay settlement until the edge of t=
rial, running up litigation expenses, until every statement of the plaintiff=
pre-injury has been collected and parsed. If you sign this, do not talk to=
anybody (even in jest) about race or track conditions till your car is on t=
he trailer and off the premises. Other language gives a defense based on yo=
ur non-disclosure of any virus symptoms; if you cough or have nausea (probab=
ly nerves and a crummy hot dog) you had better tell race organizers and they=
will have no choice but to escort you out. =20
>=20
> Dale Oesterle
> - Sent from iPad
>=20
>=20
>=20
>>> On May 16, 2020, at 1:30 PM, John Styduhar via Fot <fot@autox.team.net> w=
rote:
>> =EF=BB=BF
>> The Blackhawk Farms liability waiver is worth a review and comment by one=
of our FOT racing attorneys. Not your standard form we never read.=20
>>=20
>> On Fri, May 15, 2020 at 4:43 PM Gary Schneider <garygret@sbcglobal.net> w=
rote:
>> VSCDA is still planning on the Blackhawk Classic June 19-21. Blackhawk is=
opening May 30 and I've been in touch with the track and the race chair.
>>=20
>> Also the Midwestern Council Driver's School at BFR is firm for July 4, VS=
CDA & SCCA participants welcome.
>>=20
>> Gary Schneider
>> Midwestern Council Chief Steward for Blackhawk Classic
>>=20
>> On Friday, May 15, 2020, 2:23:39 PM CDT, John H. Hasty via Fot <fot@autox=
.team.net> wrote:
>=20
> <BFR Adult single sided waiver smaller.pdf>
> <2014 BFR Waiver.pdf>
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<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"content-type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3D=
utf-8"></head><body dir=3D"auto"><div dir=3D"ltr"><meta http-equiv=3D"conten=
t-type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3Dutf-8">The extra stuff in the waiver=
matters. A straightforward wavier waves negligence claims (not claims gross=
negligence, recklessness or intentional misconduct, depending on the state)=
. A straightforward assumption of risk is an acknowledgement that a particip=
ant is willingly and consensually taking a higher than normal risk. Bo=
th are accepted in the courts. Lawyers use the extra language in an attempt t=
o add, subtly, more layers of liability protection when general law on waive=
rs applies (i.e., there is no broader exemption statute such as those in Col=
orado for ski lifts). Moreover, the contractual provisions on virus pr=
ocedures should be in a separate contract =E2=80=94 not in the waiver=E2=80=94=
with remedies specified for breaches. The language just confuses peop=
le and makes insurance negotiations more complicated.<br><br><div dir=3D"ltr=
">Dale Oesterle<div>- Sent from iPad</div></div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br><blockq=
uote type=3D"cite">On May 17, 2020, at 4:52 PM, Gary Schneider <garygret@=
sbcglobal.net> wrote:<br><br></blockquote></div><blockquote type=3D"cite"=
><div dir=3D"ltr">=EF=BB=BF<div class=3D"ydp414d2634yahoo-style-wrap" style=3D=
"font-family:Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;font-size:16px;"><=
div></div>
<div dir=3D"ltr" data-setdir=3D"false">I understand and sympathize w=
ith the waiver text concern - certainly no insurance company will ever write=
an under-broad one - but it appears to be ~95% identical to the waiver we'v=
e been signing for many years. I had a 2014 BFR form deep in the files and s=
canned it to the attached PDF, along with the current waiver I just received=
from BFR Cindy. The footnote "2/09" seems to imply it goes back over a deca=
de. I don't have the text memorized but I believe the RA waiver is the same f=
orm.<br></div><div dir=3D"ltr" data-setdir=3D"false"><br></div><div dir=3D"l=
tr" data-setdir=3D"false">I've been a steward for maybe 20 years and our cho=
ice as race organizers has always been binary: all sign the waiver or no ins=
urance is provided. The track owners have no more choice in this than we do.=
Although the language is draconian, it is a given we have accepted to parti=
cipate in our sport. <br></div><div dir=3D"ltr" data-setdir=3D"false"><br></=
div><div dir=3D"ltr" data-setdir=3D"false">Gary<br></div><div><br></div>
=20
</div><div id=3D"ydpb4741896yahoo_quoted_9785022475" class=3D"ydpb47=
41896yahoo_quoted">
<div style=3D"font-family:'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, sa=
ns-serif;font-size:13px;color:#26282a;">
=20
<div>
On Saturday, May 16, 2020, 10:23:16 PM CDT, Dale Oesterl=
e via Fot <fot@autox.team.net> wrote:
</div>
<div><br></div>
<div><br></div>
<div><div id=3D"ydpb4741896yiv0483641789"><div>The waiver is=
legally over- broad [see, e.g., the =E2=80=9Cor otherwise language=E2=80=9D=
] hoping a court will scale it back and apply it to the maximum extent the l=
aw permits. [see the last section]. It is a drafting trick. Waivers us=
ually cannot a apply to reckless or intentional misconduct (and in some stat=
es cannot apply to =E2=80=9Cgross negligence=E2=80=9D). Moreover, the w=
aiver in section 1 gives an immediate defense to all defendants (=E2=80=9Cre=
leasees=E2=80=9D) on the basis that the signer =E2=80=9Cfe[lt] unsafe=E2=80=9D=
(whatever that means) at some time before any injury and still participated=
[or did not give notice]. This is a trial lawyer=E2=80=99s delight and, at m=
inimum, will cause defense counsel to delay settlement until the edge of tri=
al, running up litigation expenses, until every statement of the plaintiff p=
re-injury has been collected and parsed. If you sign this, do not talk=
to anybody (even in jest) about race or track conditions till your car is o=
n the trailer and off the premises. Other language gives a defense bas=
ed on your non-disclosure of any virus symptoms; if you cough or have nausea=
(probably nerves and a crummy hot dog) you had better tell race organizers a=
nd they will have no choice but to escort you out. <div><br clear=3D"n=
one"><div dir=3D"ltr">Dale Oesterle<div>- Sent from iPad</div></div><br></di=
v></div><div class=3D"ydpb4741896yiv0483641789yqt5143785186" id=3D"ydpb47418=
96yiv0483641789yqtfd20543"></div><div><div class=3D"ydpb4741896yiv0483641789=
yqt5143785186" id=3D"ydpb4741896yiv0483641789yqtfd95746"><br clear=3D"none">=
<div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br><blockquote type=3D"cite">On May 16, 2020, at 1:30=
PM, John Styduhar via Fot <fot@autox.team.net> wrote:<br clear=3D"non=
e"><br clear=3D"none"></blockquote></div><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div dir=3D=
"ltr">=EF=BB=BF<div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"ydpb4741896yiv0483641789gmail_=
default"><font size=3D"4">The Blackhawk Farms liability waiver is worth a re=
view and comment by one of our FOT racing attorneys. Not y=
our standard form we never read. </font></div></div><br clear=3D"none">=
<div class=3D"ydpb4741896yiv0483641789gmail_quote"><div class=3D"ydpb4741896=
yiv0483641789gmail_attr" dir=3D"ltr">On Fri, May 15, 2020 at 4:43 PM Gary Sc=
hneider <<a shape=3D"rect" href=3D"mailto:garygret@sbcglobal.net"; rel=3D"=
nofollow" target=3D"_blank">garygret@sbcglobal.net</a>> wrote:<br clear=3D=
"none"></div><blockquote class=3D"ydpb4741896yiv0483641789gmail_quote" style=
=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-=
left:1ex;"><div><div style=3D"font-family:Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;font-=
size:16px;"><div></div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">VSCDA is still planning on the Blackhawk Classic Ju=
ne 19-21. Blackhawk is opening May 30 and I've been in touch with the track a=
nd the race chair.</div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br clear=3D"none"></div><div dir=3D=
"ltr">Also the Midwestern Council Driver's School at BFR is firm for July 4,=
VSCDA & SCCA participants welcome.<br clear=3D"none"></div><div dir=3D"=
ltr"><br clear=3D"none"></div><div dir=3D"ltr">Gary Schneider</div><div dir=3D=
"ltr">Midwestern Council Chief Steward for Blackhawk Classic<br clear=3D"non=
e"></div><div><br clear=3D"none"></div>
=20
</div><div id=3D"ydpb4741896yiv0483641789gmail-m_8202106836114834447=
gmail-m_6003184057457639173ydpb67c6fb2yahoo_quoted_0493238517">
<div class=3D"ydpb4741896yqt5143785186" id=3D"ydpb4741896yqtfd26=
415">
=20
<div>
On Friday, May 15, 2020, 2:23:39 PM CDT, John H. Hasty v=
ia Fot <<a shape=3D"rect" href=3D"mailto:fot@autox.team.net"; rel=3D"nofol=
low" target=3D"_blank">fot@autox.team.net</a>> wrote:
</div>
<div><br clear=3D"none"></div>
<div><br clear=3D"none"></div><br clear=3D"none"><br clear=3D=
"none"></div></div></div></blockquote></div></div></blockquote></div></div><=
/div></div></div>
</div>
</div><div><BFR Adult single sided waiver smaller.pdf></div><=
div><2014 BFR Waiver.pdf></div></div></blockquote></div></body></html>=
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_______________________________________________
fot@autox.team.net
http://www.fot-racing.com
Archive: http://autox.team.net/archive http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot
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