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Re: [Healeys] Recent 100M on BAT

To: Bob Spidell <bspidell@comcast.net>
Subject: Re: [Healeys] Recent 100M on BAT
From: Curtis Arndt via Healeys <healeys@autox.team.net>
Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2023 08:55:35 -0800
Cc: "healeys@autox.team.net" <healeys@autox.team.net>
Delivered-to: mharc@autox.team.net
Delivered-to: healeys@autox.team.net
References: <PH7P221MB1007886F0723E0EFEFCB78C3D48CA@PH7P221MB1007.NAMP221.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM> <39821d9b-ea7b-4a53-b698-d3563d874793@comcast.net> <CAGfzsZdUxjxb4Z3aPT5RgKzxT7tRj435g_nHJQ2z3Vq19sFZ4g@mail.gmail.com> <4f3a085a-8c16-470e-9cc2-618fb1cfed07@comcast.net> <1702665116940.1168058.8a006dc4664b73b32cc87c61b96c39d275336eb9@spica.telekom.de> <CAB3i7LLe1eYzRUztKOcVcRT=WK_8QcHNBA5WR85gKvX7d=hT=g@mail.gmail.com> <edff0cc1-ab70-46c3-b532-1647cd1cab8c@comcast.net> <CAPTa0B5FFKbZyBNszuXUsAf6UwK-xJBtOSn7bHCFyiHt66DTNg@mail.gmail.com> <cf035b74-3df3-41dd-9038-1498821d2640@comcast.net>
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Regarding the 100M Registry, Lynn Martin and I volunteered to take over the
registry, but after several hours of discussion, the cost of doing so came
up and we decided that the price of admission was way too high for
something with little to no financial gain and a lot of work involved.

Cheers,

Curt

On Sat, Dec 16, 2023 at 8:49=E2=80=AFAM Bob Spidell <bspidell@comcast.net> =
wrote:

> I think that's indisputable (I unintentionally neglected to mention that
> aspect). That, and the fact the kits were selling made a case for selling
> the M (these days, that would take an army of marketing people to figure
> out, with lots of 'data' of course, and maybe some AI). Doesn't negate th=
e
> strong showing of taking, IIRC, 3 cars off the lot--or was that the
> Bonneville cars?--hanging a few fancy bits on it and giving the bespoke
> Ferraris, Jags, Astons, Mercedeses etc. a run for their money (the Healey=
s'
> rugged simplicity likely helped). DMH was a brilliant marketer and
> salesman; he spotted the 'niche' hole between lower--performance MGs--we'=
re
> talking TCs and TDs, not Bs and Cs--and higher-performance but much more
> expensive Jaguars and plugged it. History says he drove cross-county in t=
he
> US to gauge the market; probably why he made overdrive an option from the
> get-go, for the wide-open US highways. I don't know Triumph history that
> well, was the TR2 a contemporary of the 100?
>
> How many times have you been asked what your Healey is worth--usually by =
a
> 'not-a-car-person'--and you've replied 'Whatever someone will pay me for
> it' (then, if the person seems genuinely interested I may give a run-down
> of the contemporary market; these days 'not so good'). It's the same with
> other marques; witness the number of Chevelle SS 'tribute' cars going
> across the block at auctions. Genuine Ms can command a 50-100% premium ov=
er
> comparable 100s; hence the intensity of the interest and critique. Did yo=
u
> watch the BaT auction? It was pretty savage and enlightening, to me; I wa=
s
> surprised Bill let the incorrect carbs and distributor slide (maybe he wa=
s
> tired of doing the registry thing).
>
> From the late, great Gary Anderson:
>
>
> https://austinhealeyconcoursregistry.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/03/The-H=
eritage-of-the-100M-G.-Anderson.pdf
>
>
> On 12/16/2023 6:46 AM, Michael Oritt wrote:
>
> Some feel that since DMH knew he was going to change over to a new car
> (the 100-6) he figured out a clever marketing ploy to get rid of what mig=
ht
> otherwise have become a less-than-desirable inventory of late production
> 100's by outfitting some of the cars with the snazzy M upgrade.  If so it
> was probably never his intention nor in his comprehension to produce what
> has ironically become a very special Healey second only to the 100-S in
> collectibility.
>
> Best--Michael Oritt
>
> On Sat, Dec 16, 2023 at 1:31=E2=80=AFAM Bob Spidell <bspidell@comcast.net=
> wrote:
>
>> The M was rated at 110HP--more if you got the optional branch
>> extractor--as opposed to a stock BN2's 90HP. That's a 22% increase in
>> power; I'd call that significant. Also, how do you 'hang' a camshaft and
>> pistons on an engine (the mechanics were supposed to pull the engine, bu=
t
>> if DMH and Geoff weren't around they'd cheat and do the mods in situ)?
>>
>> I think at least part of the value of an M is that it made an appearance
>> at the Healey factory, possibly with DMH and/or Geoff in attendance, as
>> opposed to just coming off the Austin assembly line. Also, the
>> modifications were, for the most part, the same as made to the cars that
>> ran at LeMans in '52 ('53?) and came in 13th (or 14th) overall. When
>> customers started asking for the same modifications DMH first sold a kit=
,
>> then the complete car (anyone remember 'Race on Sunday, sell on Monday?'=
).
>>
>> I'd say the market has spoken, since genuine M cars command a significan=
t
>> price premium (hence why of the original, documented 640 cars only 3,000
>> remain).
>>
>> bs
>>
>>
>> On 12/15/2023 2:16 PM, Michael Salter wrote:
>>
>> I'm not an "M" guy really because as someone mentioned there isn't that
>> much to hanging the "modification " parts on any 100.
>> If the "M" designation involved significant performance modifications,
>> say like an "M" series BMW, which could not be easily copied, then I wou=
ld
>> consider them be very special.
>> I understand that Mr Meade has now sold his "M" so would not be surprise=
d
>> to see the "Registry" fade away.
>> Just my opinion.
>>
>> M
>>
>> On Fri., Dec. 15, 2023, 1:59 p.m. josef-eckert--- via Healeys, <
>> healeys@autox.team.net> wrote:
>>
>>> What makes a 100M?
>>> Very good question and not easy to answer.
>>>
>>> In my opinion, an Austin-Healey 100M, especially as the price category =
is significantly higher than the normal 100,
>>> is a car that any modification reduces its value. A heavily modified 10=
0M is nothing special. It's a modified 100 and
>>> no longer an M. But this is my personal opinion. A new chassis would be=
 such a major modification for me, as would a
>>> conversion to disc brakes at the front or a conversion to a Weber carbu=
rettors, etc. This would be simply no longer a
>>> Genuine 100M. I would then rather buy an original Austin-Healey 100 for=
 the same money. But I have to admit, for me
>>> the hype surrounding the 100M is far exaggerated for what the car is. I=
t's a special model with a little more
>>> horsepower, but not anything particularly special. Its like an Alpina B=
MW or a AMG Mercedes.
>>>
>>> Josef Eckert
>>> Germany
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original-Nachricht-----
>>>
>>> Betreff: Re: [Healeys] Recent 100M on BAT
>>>
>>> Datum: 2023-12-15T18:07:16+0100
>>>
>>> Von: "Bob Spidell" <bspidell@comcast.net>
>>>
>>> An: "HealeyRick" <healeyrik@gmail.com>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Note the Registry will also certify 'Le Mans Conversions,' which may be
>>> what Kent's nasty is/was. Some have noted you can build a 'better M' wi=
th
>>> aftermarket parts (Isky cam, alloy head, SBC, etc.).
>>>
>>> I don't think either Kilmartin or Jules makes a 100 chassis, but I'd be
>>> somewhat more sympathetic to that, but not so much hanging an M body an=
d
>>> parts on a BN1 (a BN2, *maybe*). The main problem I see is an earnest
>>> owner may sell a conversion (aka 'counterfeit') with full disclosure, b=
ut
>>> an owner or two down the road the 'Tribute' tag has been conveniently
>>> forgotten (I'm not all in on 'tribute' anything, be they cars or rock
>>> bands).
>>>
>>>
>>> On 12/15/2023 7:17 AM, HealeyRick wrote:
>>>
>>> This is all hypothesis based on speculation so take it with that
>>> caveat.  Let's say one had a rusty factory 100M that was so bad it need=
ed a
>>> new frame.  How hard would it be to transfer the 100M body parts over t=
o a
>>> solid BN1 chassis along with the oh-so-valuable chassis plate? The 100M
>>> Registry seems to focus mostly on the original body parts and cockpit
>>> surrounds to certify a car. Even cars with non-original engines have be=
en
>>> registered. I'm pretty certain Kent Lacy's Nasty M was on the registry.=
 So
>>> is the BaT car still an M?  Some pretty valuable race cars have been
>>> crashed and fitted with new chassis and still bring big money at auctio=
n.
>>>
>>> To me, what makes an M an M is the motor.  If an M no longer has its
>>> original motor, or equal replacement, it has lost its character as an M=
.
>>> Otherwise, it's a BN2 with a louvered hood. It's almost like if a Sunbe=
am
>>> Tiger blew its motor and it was replaced with an Alpine motor. Sure, it=
's
>>> got the right serial number on the unibody, but it's not much of a Tige=
r
>>> anymore. The BaT car with what appears to be non-original carbs and
>>> distributor caused me concern. Who would remove those from an original =
M
>>> motor? C'mon 100M sellers, pop the valve cover, remove the rockers and =
put
>>> a dial indicator on the pushrods so we can see if there is still a 100M=
 cam
>>> in the lump!
>>>
>>> Happy Healeydays,
>>> Rick Neville
>>>
>>> On Thu, Dec 14, 2023 at 1:05=E2=80=AFPM Bob Spidell <bspidell@comcast.n=
et>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Excellent report, thank you.
>>>>
>>>> I was one of the commenters on BaT--I joined BaT to comment--but, sinc=
e
>>>> I have a BN2/100M I'm not familiar with BN1 differences and could only
>>>> point out obvious differences with my car (which was completely origin=
al as
>>>> far as I can tell, except for extensive body work). One thing that was
>>>> somewhat disturbing to me is that the Registry certified this car, whi=
le
>>>> noting some major anomalies (the carbs, for instance, looked to be new=
 and
>>>> didn't have the hand scribing like my car).
>>>>
>>>> The other thing that interested me is, how do you value this car? Yes,
>>>> it's a very nice car, probably a good driver but, IMO, its value
>>>> *should* be less than a comparably restored, original BN1 or BN2. And,
>>>> what did the previous owner know, or should have known about this car?=
 How
>>>> do you present it for sale; as a BN1 with 'M bits?' It would need the
>>>> proverbial asterisk alongside the page title.
>>>>
>>>> Bob
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 12/14/2023 8:15 AM, S and T Miller wrote:
>>>>
>>>> If you were following it recently,  you might find my observations
>>>> interesting.  So I went down to Michael's motor cars to help him deter=
mine
>>>> if the 100m indeed has a BN1 chassis. Here is what I found.
>>>>
>>>> It has the BN1 inner fenders with the rolled pressings. It has the BN1
>>>> front brake hose frame mount the is less pronounced welded BN1 bracket=
, as
>>>> the later cars have a bolted on bracket. The front shock towers have n=
o
>>>> evidence of being replaced and show the factory welds. The gearbox mou=
nt
>>>> shows non-original/factory welds as if it were replaced to accommodate=
 the
>>>> BN2 mount.
>>>>
>>>> What I found most interesting is that where a BN1 has two OD relays
>>>> mounted under the dash, it took shining a light it different direction=
s to
>>>> just make out the slight evidence of filled holes (4 of then for the t=
wo
>>>> relays). And I was able to reach inside the vent just below that area =
with
>>>> my fingers and feel the welds and welding wire that was used to fill t=
hose
>>>> 4 holes. I can tell you someone took great care to try and make those =
holes
>>>> seem as they never existed.  Along with that, where a BN2 would have t=
he
>>>> single OD relay attached to the firewall with machine screws screwed i=
nto
>>>> welded captive nuts on the firewall,  you can see plain sheet screws w=
ere
>>>> used to mount it in what would be a BN2 relay position.
>>>>
>>>> I also feel the engine tag is a repo because of the lighter stamping.
>>>> Originals tend to have the numbers/ letters stamped with a deeper end
>>>> result.  I took my repo engine tag along to compare, and they appeared
>>>> identical in the stampings. The body/ bath tag and VIN plate appear
>>>> original. Now that doesn't mean that the engine isn't the correct M en=
gine,
>>>> because there could be many reasons why the engine tag was replaced. A=
nyone
>>>> who drove a stock 100 compared to a 100M can attest to the difference =
in
>>>> power, and Mike stated that it indeed has that M power.
>>>>
>>>> The boot lid shows no evidence of the stay bracket being swapped off
>>>> another lid, and if you look closely you can see that the boot shows s=
ome
>>>> previous age/life. I'd believe it to be original. I could not make out=
 any
>>>> evidence of the bonnet number being sliced in from a M bonnet, but I w=
ill
>>>> say that the underside of the bonnet seemed suspiciously clean and
>>>> prestine. I couldn't detect any age like the boot, but that would be f=
or
>>>> someone else to decide.
>>>>
>>>> Mike had asked me if the cold air box was original,  and I simply don'=
t
>>>> have that experience to know. I have anyways heard if it looks old, it=
's
>>>> original.  It does indeed look to have some age, so?
>>>>
>>>> I feel at some point in this car's life someone went to some effort to
>>>> try and conceal that these 100M parts were reinstalled on a BN1 chassi=
s.
>>>> Another interesting note is that there was an attempt to fill the hole=
s
>>>> where a BN1 chassis plate is fitted on the frame rail. Perhaps the per=
son
>>>> didn't realize that the holes continued over to the BN2's, and thought=
 they
>>>> were erasing evidence of a BN1 chassis?
>>>>
>>>> With all that said, Mike is simply trying to represent the car
>>>> correctly. The car is a very nice car! Paint is very nice, car is stra=
ight,
>>>> and gaps look good. Interior is very nice, and looks to be a very good=
 car
>>>> all around. I didn't drive the car, but Mike has years of experience u=
nder
>>>> his belt, so I'd trust his opinions on that. With the quality of the
>>>> restoration,  it is surprising that the front frame to shroud brackets=
 were
>>>> not welded to the frame. Chrome looks good, and I'd think winning some
>>>> trophies at a popular vote car would not be an issue.
>>>>
>>>> The Millers
>>>>
>>>> "Always drive them, but remember each drive in an antique car is a tes=
t
>>>> drive."
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>
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>>>>
>>>> Unsubscribe/Manage:
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>>>>
>>>> =EF=BB=BF
>>> _______________________________________________
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>> _______________________________________________
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>

--0000000000006b4dda060ca3636b
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr">Regarding the 100M Registry, Lynn Martin and I volunteered=
 to take over the registry, but after several hours of discussion, the cost=
 of doing so came up and we decided that the price of admission was way too=
 high for something with little to no financial gain and a lot of work invo=
lved.=C2=A0<div><br></div><div>Cheers,</div><div><br></div><div>Curt</div><=
/div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">O=
n Sat, Dec 16, 2023 at 8:49=E2=80=AFAM Bob Spidell &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:bs=
pidell@comcast.net">bspidell@comcast.net</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquot=
e class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px s=
olid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><u></u>

 =20
   =20
 =20
  <div>
    I think that&#39;s indisputable (I unintentionally neglected to mention
    that aspect). That, and the fact the kits were selling made a case
    for selling the M (these days, that would take an army of marketing
    people to figure out, with lots of &#39;data&#39; of course, and maybe =
some
    AI). Doesn&#39;t negate the strong showing of taking, IIRC, 3 cars off
    the lot--or was that the Bonneville cars?--hanging a few fancy bits
    on it and giving the bespoke Ferraris, Jags, Astons, Mercedeses etc.
    a run for their money (the Healeys&#39; rugged simplicity likely
    helped). DMH was a brilliant marketer and salesman; he spotted the
    &#39;niche&#39; hole between lower--performance MGs--we&#39;re talking =
TCs and
    TDs, not Bs and Cs--and higher-performance but much more expensive
    Jaguars and plugged it. History says he drove cross-county in the US
    to gauge the market; probably why he made overdrive an option from
    the get-go, for the wide-open US highways. I don&#39;t know Triumph
    history that well, was the TR2 a contemporary of the 100?<br>
    <br>
    How many times have you been asked what your Healey is
    worth--usually by a &#39;not-a-car-person&#39;--and you&#39;ve replied =
&#39;Whatever
    someone will pay me for it&#39; (then, if the person seems genuinely
    interested I may give a run-down of the contemporary market; these
    days &#39;not so good&#39;). It&#39;s the same with other marques; witn=
ess the
    number of Chevelle SS &#39;tribute&#39; cars going across the block at
    auctions. Genuine Ms can command a 50-100% premium over comparable
    100s; hence the intensity of the interest and critique. Did you
    watch the BaT auction? It was pretty savage and enlightening, to me;
    I was surprised Bill let the incorrect carbs and distributor slide
    (maybe he was tired of doing the registry thing). <br>
    <br>
    From the late, great Gary Anderson:<br>
    <br>
<a href=3D"https://austinhealeyconcoursregistry.org/wp-content/uploads/2019=
/03/The-Heritage-of-the-100M-G.-Anderson.pdf" target=3D"_blank">https://aus=
tinhealeyconcoursregistry.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/03/The-Heritage-of-th=
e-100M-G.-Anderson.pdf</a><br>
    <br>
    <br>
    <div>On 12/16/2023 6:46 AM, Michael Oritt
      wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote type=3D"cite">
     =20
      <div dir=3D"ltr">
        <div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"color:rgb(51,51,255)">Some fe=
el that
          since DMH knew he was going to change over to a new car (the
          100-6) he figured out a clever marketing=C2=A0ploy to get rid of
          what might otherwise have become a
          less-than-desirable=C2=A0inventory of late production 100&#39;s b=
y
          outfitting some of the cars with the snazzy M upgrade.=C2=A0 If s=
o
          it was probably never his intention nor in his comprehension
          to produce=C2=A0what has ironically become a very special Healey
          second only to the 100-S in collectibility.</div>
        <div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"color:rgb(51,51,255)"><br>
        </div>
        <div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"color:rgb(51,51,255)">Best--M=
ichael
          Oritt</div>
      </div>
      <br>
      <div class=3D"gmail_quote">
        <div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Sat, Dec 16, 2023 at
          1:31=E2=80=AFAM Bob Spidell &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:bspidell@comcas=
t.net" target=3D"_blank">bspidell@comcast.net</a>&gt;
          wrote:<br>
        </div>
        <blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex=
;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
          <div> The M was rated at 110HP--more if you got the optional
            branch extractor--as opposed to a stock BN2&#39;s 90HP. That&#3=
9;s a
            22% increase in power; I&#39;d call that significant. Also, how
            do you &#39;hang&#39; a camshaft and pistons on an engine (the
            mechanics were supposed to pull the engine, but if DMH and
            Geoff weren&#39;t around they&#39;d cheat and do the mods in si=
tu)?<br>
            <br>
            I think at least part of the value of an M is that it made
            an appearance at the Healey factory, possibly with DMH
            and/or Geoff in attendance, as opposed to just coming off
            the Austin assembly line. Also, the modifications were, for
            the most part, the same as made to the cars that ran at
            LeMans in &#39;52 (&#39;53?) and came in 13th (or 14th) overall=
.
            When customers started asking for the same modifications DMH
            first sold a kit, then the complete car (anyone remember
            &#39;Race on Sunday, sell on Monday?&#39;).<br>
            <br>
            I&#39;d say the market has spoken, since genuine M cars command
            a significant price premium (hence why of the original,
            documented 640 cars only 3,000 remain). <br>
            <br>
            bs<br>
            <br>
            <br>
            <div>On 12/15/2023 2:16 PM, Michael Salter wrote:<br>
            </div>
            <blockquote type=3D"cite">
              <div dir=3D"auto">I&#39;m not an &quot;M&quot; guy really bec=
ause as
                someone mentioned there isn&#39;t that much to hanging the
                &quot;modification &quot; parts on any 100.=C2=A0
                <div dir=3D"auto">If the &quot;M&quot; designation involved
                  significant performance modifications,=C2=A0 say like an
                  &quot;M&quot; series BMW, which could not be easily copie=
d, then
                  I would consider them be very special.
                  <div dir=3D"auto">I understand that Mr Meade has now
                    sold his &quot;M&quot; so would not be surprised to see=
 the
                    &quot;Registry&quot; fade away.</div>
                  <div dir=3D"auto">Just my opinion.=C2=A0</div>
                  <div dir=3D"auto"><br>
                  </div>
                  <div dir=3D"auto">M</div>
                </div>
              </div>
              <br>
              <div class=3D"gmail_quote">
                <div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Fri., Dec. 15,
                  2023, 1:59 p.m. josef-eckert--- via Healeys, &lt;<a href=
=3D"mailto:healeys@autox.team.net"; target=3D"_blank">healeys@autox.team.net=
</a>&gt;
                  wrote:<br>
                </div>
                <blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0=
px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
                  <div>
                    <pre id=3D"m_1513453945956618691m_-4413793566936237617m=
_-8948067483587624533tw-target-text" dir=3D"ltr" style=3D"text-align:left">=
<span style=3D"font-size:12pt;font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif" lang=
=3D"en">What makes a 100M?=20
Very good question and not easy to answer.

In my opinion, an Austin-Healey 100M, especially as the price category is s=
ignificantly higher than the normal 100,=20
is a car that any modification reduces its value. A heavily modified 100M i=
s nothing special. It&#39;s a modified 100 and=20
no longer an M. But this is my personal opinion. A new chassis would be suc=
h a major modification for me, as would a=20
conversion to disc brakes at the front or a conversion to a Weber carburett=
ors, etc. This would be simply no longer a=20
Genuine 100M. I would then rather buy an original Austin-Healey 100 for the=
 same money. But I have to admit, for me=20
the hype surrounding the 100M is far exaggerated for what the car is. It&#3=
9;s a special model with a little more=20
horsepower, but not anything particularly special. Its like an Alpina BMW o=
r a AMG Mercedes.

Josef Eckert
Germany
</span></pre>
                    <p style=3D"margin:0px"><span style=3D"font-family:aria=
l,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:10pt;color:rgb(0,0,0);text-decoration:none=
">=C2=A0</span></p>
                    <p style=3D"margin:0px"><span style=3D"font-family:aria=
l,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:10pt;color:rgb(0,0,0);text-decoration:none=
">=C2=A0</span></p>
                    <p style=3D"margin:0px">=C2=A0</p>
                    <p style=3D"margin:0px">=C2=A0</p>
                    <p style=3D"margin:0px">-----Original-Nachricht-----</p=
>
                    <p style=3D"margin:0px">Betreff: Re: [Healeys] Recent
                      100M on BAT</p>
                    <p style=3D"margin:0px">Datum:
                      2023-12-15T18:07:16+0100</p>
                    <p style=3D"margin:0px">Von: &quot;Bob Spidell&quot; &l=
t;<a href=3D"mailto:bspidell@comcast.net"; rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_bla=
nk">bspidell@comcast.net</a>&gt;</p>
                    <p style=3D"margin:0px">An: &quot;HealeyRick&quot; &lt;=
<a href=3D"mailto:healeyrik@gmail.com"; rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank"=
>healeyrik@gmail.com</a>&gt;</p>
                    <p style=3D"margin:0px">=C2=A0</p>
                    <p style=3D"margin:0px">=C2=A0</p>
                    <p style=3D"margin:0px">=C2=A0</p>
                    <div style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0);font:12px Arial,Helvetic=
a,sans-serif">Note the
                      Registry will also certify &#39;Le Mans Conversions,&=
#39;
                      which may be what Kent&#39;s nasty is/was. Some have
                      noted you can build a &#39;better M&#39; with afterma=
rket
                      parts (Isky cam, alloy head, SBC, etc.). <br>
                      <br>
                      I don&#39;t think either Kilmartin or Jules makes a
                      100 chassis, but I&#39;d be somewhat more sympathetic
                      to that, but not so much hanging an M body and
                      parts on a BN1 (a BN2, <em>maybe</em>). The main
                      problem I see is an earnest owner may sell a
                      conversion (aka &#39;counterfeit&#39;) with full
                      disclosure, but an owner or two down the road the
                      &#39;Tribute&#39; tag has been conveniently forgotten=
 (I&#39;m
                      not all in on &#39;tribute&#39; anything, be they car=
s or
                      rock bands).<br>
                      <br>
                      <br>
                      <div>On 12/15/2023 7:17 AM, HealeyRick wrote:</div>
                      <blockquote>
                        <div dir=3D"ltr">This is all hypothesis based on
                          speculation so take it with that caveat.=C2=A0
                          Let&#39;s say one had a rusty factory 100M that
                          was so bad it needed a new frame.=C2=A0 How hard
                          would it be to transfer the 100M body parts
                          over to a solid BN1 chassis along with the
                          oh-so-valuable chassis plate? The 100M
                          Registry seems to focus mostly on the original
                          body parts and cockpit surrounds to certify a
                          car. Even cars with non-original engines have
                          been registered. I&#39;m pretty certain Kent
                          Lacy&#39;s Nasty M was on the registry. So is the
                          BaT car still an M?=C2=A0 Some pretty valuable ra=
ce
                          cars have been crashed and fitted with=C2=A0new
                          chassis and still bring big money at auction.=C2=
=A0
                          <div>=C2=A0</div>
                          <div>To me, what makes an M an M is the
                            motor.=C2=A0 If an M no longer has its original
                            motor, or equal replacement, it has lost its
                            character as an M. Otherwise, it&#39;s a BN2
                            with a louvered hood. It&#39;s almost like if a
                            Sunbeam Tiger blew its motor and it was
                            replaced with an Alpine motor. Sure, it&#39;s
                            got the right serial number on the unibody,
                            but it&#39;s not much of a Tiger anymore. The
                            BaT car with what appears to be non-original
                            carbs and distributor caused me concern. Who
                            would remove those from an original M motor?
                            C&#39;mon 100M sellers, pop the valve cover,
                            remove the rockers and put a dial indicator
                            on the pushrods so we can see if there is
                            still a 100M cam in the lump!</div>
                          <div>
                            <div>=C2=A0</div>
                            <div>Happy Healeydays,</div>
                            <div>Rick Neville</div>
                          </div>
                        </div>
                        <br>
                        <div class=3D"gmail_quote">
                          <div class=3D"gmail_attr" dir=3D"ltr">On Thu, Dec
                            14, 2023 at 1:05=E2=80=AFPM Bob Spidell &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:bspidell@comcast.net"; rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">b=
spidell@comcast.net</a>&gt;
                            wrote:</div>
                          <blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin=
:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"=
>
                            <div>Excellent report, thank you. <br>
                              <br>
                              I was one of the commenters on BaT--I
                              joined BaT to comment--but, since I have a
                              BN2/100M I&#39;m not familiar with BN1
                              differences and could only point out
                              obvious differences with my car (which was
                              completely original as far as I can tell,
                              except for extensive body work). One thing
                              that was somewhat disturbing to me is that
                              the Registry certified this car, while
                              noting some major anomalies (the carbs,
                              for instance, looked to be new and didn&#39;t
                              have the hand scribing like my car). <br>
                              <br>
                              The other thing that interested me is, how
                              do you value this car? Yes, it&#39;s a very
                              nice car, probably a good driver but, IMO,
                              its value <em>should</em> be less than a
                              comparably restored, original BN1 or BN2.
                              And, what did the previous owner know, or
                              should have known about this car? How do
                              you present it for sale; as a BN1 with &#39;M
                              bits?&#39; It would need the proverbial
                              asterisk alongside the page title.<br>
                              <br>
                              Bob<br>
                              <br>
                              <br>
                              <br>
                              <div>On 12/14/2023 8:15 AM, S and T Miller
                                wrote:</div>
                              <blockquote>
                                <div style=3D"font-family:inherit;font-size=
:inherit;color:inherit;background-color:transparent">
                                  <div>If you were following it
                                    recently,=C2=A0 you might find my
                                    observations interesting.=C2=A0 So I we=
nt
                                    down to Michael&#39;s motor cars to hel=
p
                                    him determine if the 100m indeed has
                                    a BN1 chassis. Here is what I found.</d=
iv>
                                  <div>=C2=A0</div>
                                  <div>It has the BN1 inner fenders with
                                    the rolled pressings. It has the BN1
                                    front brake hose frame mount the is
                                    less pronounced welded BN1 bracket,
                                    as the later cars have a bolted on
                                    bracket. The front shock towers have
                                    no evidence of being replaced and
                                    show the factory welds. The gearbox
                                    mount shows non-original/factory
                                    welds as if it were replaced to
                                    accommodate the BN2 mount.=C2=A0</div>
                                  <div>=C2=A0</div>
                                  <div>What I found most interesting is
                                    that where a BN1 has two OD relays
                                    mounted under the dash, it took
                                    shining a light it different
                                    directions to just make out the
                                    slight evidence of filled holes (4
                                    of then for the two relays). And I
                                    was able to reach inside the vent
                                    just below that area with my fingers
                                    and feel the welds and welding wire
                                    that was used to fill those 4 holes.
                                    I can tell you someone took great
                                    care to try and make those holes
                                    seem as they never existed.=C2=A0 Along
                                    with that, where a BN2 would have
                                    the single OD relay attached to the
                                    firewall with machine screws screwed
                                    into welded captive nuts on the
                                    firewall,=C2=A0 you can see plain sheet
                                    screws were used to mount it in what
                                    would be a BN2 relay position.=C2=A0</d=
iv>
                                  <div>=C2=A0</div>
                                  <div>I also feel the engine tag is a
                                    repo because of the lighter
                                    stamping. Originals tend to have the
                                    numbers/ letters stamped with a
                                    deeper end result.=C2=A0 I took my repo
                                    engine tag along to compare, and
                                    they appeared identical in the
                                    stampings. The body/ bath tag and
                                    VIN plate appear original. Now that
                                    doesn&#39;t mean that the engine isn&#3=
9;t
                                    the correct M engine, because there
                                    could be many reasons why the engine
                                    tag was replaced. Anyone who drove a
                                    stock 100 compared to a 100M can
                                    attest to the difference in power,
                                    and Mike stated that it indeed has
                                    that M power.=C2=A0</div>
                                  <div>=C2=A0</div>
                                  <div>The boot lid shows no evidence of
                                    the stay bracket being swapped off
                                    another lid, and if you look closely
                                    you can see that the boot shows some
                                    previous age/life. I&#39;d believe it t=
o
                                    be original. I could not make out
                                    any evidence of the bonnet number
                                    being sliced in from a M bonnet, but
                                    I will say that the underside of the
                                    bonnet seemed suspiciously clean and
                                    prestine. I couldn&#39;t detect any age
                                    like the boot, but that would be for
                                    someone else to decide.=C2=A0</div>
                                  <div>=C2=A0</div>
                                  <div>Mike had asked me if the cold air
                                    box was original,=C2=A0 and I simply
                                    don&#39;t have that experience to know.
                                    I have anyways heard if it looks
                                    old, it&#39;s original.=C2=A0 It does i=
ndeed
                                    look to have some age, so?</div>
                                  <div>=C2=A0</div>
                                  <div>I feel at some point in this
                                    car&#39;s life someone went to some
                                    effort to try and conceal that these
                                    100M parts were reinstalled on a BN1
                                    chassis. Another interesting note is
                                    that there was an attempt to fill
                                    the holes where a BN1 chassis plate
                                    is fitted on the frame rail. Perhaps
                                    the person didn&#39;t realize that the
                                    holes continued over to the BN2&#39;s,
                                    and thought they were erasing
                                    evidence of a BN1 chassis?=C2=A0</div>
                                  <div>=C2=A0</div>
                                  <div>With all that said, Mike is
                                    simply trying to represent the car
                                    correctly. The car is a very nice
                                    car! Paint is very nice, car is
                                    straight, and gaps look good.
                                    Interior is very nice, and looks to
                                    be a very good car all around. I
                                    didn&#39;t drive the car, but Mike has
                                    years of experience under his belt,
                                    so I&#39;d trust his opinions on that.
                                    With the quality of the
                                    restoration,=C2=A0 it is surprising tha=
t
                                    the front frame to shroud brackets
                                    were not welded to the frame. Chrome
                                    looks good, and I&#39;d think winning
                                    some trophies at a popular vote car
                                    would not be an issue.=C2=A0</div>
                                </div>
                                <div>=C2=A0</div>
                                <div>The Millers<br>
                                  =C2=A0<br>
                                  &quot;Always drive them, but remember eac=
h
                                  drive in an antique car is a test
                                  drive.&quot;</div>
                              </blockquote>
                            </div>
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