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Re: For those in England: NonLBC way of life question. VeryImportant

To: "James H. Nazarian" <microdoc@apk.net>,
Subject: Re: For those in England: NonLBC way of life question. VeryImportant
From: "Dan Dwelley" <ddwelley@excite.com>
Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1999 06:27:16 PDT
James,

As I look through the replies to this thread, I have yet to find anyone that
agrees with you. Now that can mean one of two things...a) Everyone on this
list (with the exception of you)is an idiot!...or b) You need to get with
the times or go back to your cave.

Have you ever been through Central Park? How can you compare walking through
Central Park at night with criminals hiding behind every bush to rob, rape
and/or kill you (that is how your description of Central Park is
interpreted) to walking home with a trusted friend!? 

What would you say if some big "Butch" woman tried to rape you and all of us
said...he should have avoided her or he must have made some suggestive moves
to provoke it!? Sounds pretty stupid when it's turned around but it's the
same deal!

What if it were your daughter? Would you say the same thing? I don't think
so! You would have the same anger that Mike has only a little worse. 
I will agree with you on one point and that is Mike shouldn't have said he
was going to kill someone (or was thinking it) but that was just a figure of
speech and would/could cause problems if something were to happen to this so
called friend. That is the only point I'll agree with.

Remember...Rape isn't sexual...It's agression, control, anger, and violence
channeled through a sexual act. 

I have taken enough of this lists time responding to this. I apologize for
taking up the bandwidth but found it impossible to let this go.

Dan Dwelley
77 Midget
Alexandria, Va.
 


On Mon, 18 Oct 1999 18:14:50 -0400, James H. Nazarian wrote:

> Shame on yourself pringle.
> 
> After you walk through New York's Central Park at night, let me hear you
sermonize
> to your muggers about how unfair they were to you for depriving you of
your right to
> jeopardize your life. After they stop laughing at you, go to the police
and file a
> complaint for assault, robbery, mugging and hurting your simple minded
feelings. The
> cops in New York can always use a good laugh, but I doubt they will have
time to
> lecture you about how stupid you were to take that walk. A little common
sense goes
> a long way. Unless you want to be mugged you do not walk through Central
Park at
> night.  Granny said, "Don't sleep in the guy's apartment, drink with him,
get alone
> with him, then wonder why he made an advance." Maybe he thought she was
making an
> advance on him. Your granny was right, you should listen to her advise...
and if you
> have a daughter tell her the same. As far as your soap box, "Shame on you
for not
> storing MG parts in it. Get real bub, this is the nineties. Better for a
woman to
> avoid rape than to protest the violation to her rights after it has
occurred. That's
> called "street smart".
> 
> Jim
> 
> Matt Pringle wrote:
> 
> > Shame on you.  Mike asks for advice and support from a group of people
> > he would consider friends and you have the nerve to suggest:
> >
> > 1) It is easy for woman to come forward with charges of abuse
> >
> > 2) She is just as much at fault for being in the stairwell as he is for
> > pushing himself on her.
> >
> > 3) That this man's girlfriend was pursuing this relationship as more
> > than a friendship.
> >
> > 4) That she gave suggestive signals.
> >
> > This is the 1990's my friend, we as a society don't subscribe to these
> > falicies any more.  I suggest you talk to your
> > sister/daughter/grand-daughter and ask her to enlighten you.
> >
> > Shame on you.
> >
> > Matt
> >
> > James H. Nazarian wrote:
> > >
> > > Mike,
> > >
> > > Sorry to eavesdrop on your e-mail... I failed to look at the subject
> > > before
> > > reading it. You (and your girlfriend) have a responsibility to hold
your
> > > tongue(s). You don't know what happened, because you weren't there.
If
> > > you
> > > choose to believe the girlfriend, that is your choice. In this
country,
> > > a mere
> > > accusation of this kind can become a character assassination and
> > > terribly
> > > expensive for his defense even if he is found innocent. Then I hope
he
> > > would sue
> > > his false accuser for irreparable harm to his good name and
reputation.
> > >
> > > "Filing" a complaint as a precaution against it happening again
ignores
> > > the fact
> > > that this is what motivates the legal/police business to prosecute
and
> > > convict
> > > innocent people... money. If you really want to document it, have her
> > > write a
> > > statement, seal it in an envelope, and have the postal service put a
> > > date stamp
> > > over the seam of the flap. Then store it safely away. You can even
send
> > > him a
> > > copy.
> > >
> > > Since you have known and trusted him, maybe you should call him on
the
> > > phone and
> > > have a friendly chat about it before you jump the gun and make a
false
> > > accusation. This will also serve him notice that you know what she
said.
> > > If you
> > > were ready to go there to "kill the SOB", surely you can muster the
> > > eloquence to
> > > advise him to stay away from her, including to not confront her about
> > > telling
> > > you. This would be for his own good too. Always bear in mind that it
is
> > > easy for
> > > a woman to make such an accusation, including as a cover-up to
something
> > > she
> > > did. It is very difficult to stop the ball once it gets rolling.
> > >
> > > In common sense 101, she should have learned to avoid situations like
> > > being
> > > alone in a stairwell with a stranger. Just as he has a responsibility
to
> > > leave
> > > her alone, she has a responsibility to avoid giving suggestive
signals.
> > > You too
> > > should hope that he isn't murdered during your next visit to London,
> > > 'cause you
> > > just told 500 people you are pondering killing someone. Yikes! I
> > > wouldn't want
> > > to be in your shoes.
> > >
> > > Don't play with dynamite if you don't like loud noises.
> > >
> > > Jim
> > >
> > > PS: I fail to see the connection here with MG's, other than one man
> > > asking for
> > > advice from some others. Good luck my friend.
> > >
> > > Michael Graziano wrote:
> > >
> > > > Hey folks.
> > > >
> > > > I have a little news that's bothering me to no end.  In fact,  I'm
quite
> > > > upset.
> > > >
> > > > My girlfriend is currently going to school in London.  I'm stuck
here in the
> > > > states.
> > > >
> > > > She called me more than a little upset Saturday night (3:30 am your
time)
> > > > that one of her friends, someone I actually know and whom we both
trusted,
> > > > trapped her in the stairwell of her apartment house and forced
himself on
> > > > her.  Mainly just kissing, but a little more as well.  She escaped
by first
> > > > kneeing him at the first opportunity, and then running into her
apartment.
> > > > THe advances were unwanted and unprovoked.  He was a little drunk.
> > > >
> > > > After my initial reaction (which was to start making plans to fly
to
> > > > London),  I realized that no good could come of it.  Being arrested
in a a
> > > > foreign land is not what I had in mind for this week.  My next
thought was
> > > > for her to report him to the police and file a complaint.  Maybe not
file
> > > > charges, but at least have it on record in case he tries something
else.
> > > > Letting him know a report was filed might be a future deterent.
Wini, my
> > > > GF, doesn't think that will do any good.  She is of the opinion that
things
> > > > of this nature are taken lightly by the police constables.
> > > >
> > > > What is your the general opinion on this matter.  What steps can we
take
> > > > short of my killing the son-of-a-bitch?  I promised her I would do
nothing
> > > > until i spoke with her,  but doing nothing is eating me up inside.
> > > >
> > > > Mike
> 

Dan Dwelley
77 Midget
Alexandria, Va.




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