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Re: Clutch Bleed

To: rock@rocky-frisco.com, microdoc@apk.net, mgs@autox.team.net
Subject: Re: Clutch Bleed
From: REwald9535@aol.com
Date: Fri, 5 Nov 1999 00:50:49 EST
In a message dated 11/4/99 8:29:58 PM Pacific Standard Time, 
rock@rocky-frisco.com writes:

> > If this method is standard operating procedure on American cars, it 
> explains a
>  > number of things. Do yourself and those with whom you share the road a
>  > life-saving favor. Call any or all manufacturers of brake fluid, tell 
them
>  > your suggestion and ask how they feel about reuse of brake fluid. You'll 
> hear
>  > an emphatic " DON'T ! "
>  
>  James, I am not recommending, nor did I ever recommend, re-using brake
>  fluid. I am referring to the only sure method of achieving a hard pedal
>  on an LBC. If you use the pump-up, loosen bleeder, "squirt," tighten
>  bleeder, do it again, method, you will never get a truly hard pedal 

Is this a private flame war or can anybody play?       ;- )
I've been watching this thread with interest.  Now I'm going to throw in my 
$.02.
Yes, American car master cylinders are bleed in a loop, BUT and this is a 
huge BUT this procedure is when the master is being replaced before the 
master is put on the car.  In other words a new master and new fluid.  It is 
referred to as bench bleeding.  This is done to remove the air before the 
master is put on the car and to make the rest of the bleeding easier.
Once the master is on the car fluid is never reused. Either by pouring it 
back into the master or using a tube back from the bleed screw.  I'm not 
going to get into the I can see the dirt/ NO you can't discussion, but brake 
fluid does absorb water and water is the same color as GTLMA (ask me how I 
know this-it also tastes terrible) .
Now let's stop and answer one question before we go any further Who are the 
two people that know the most about hydraulic brake systems?  The answer is 
the Guy who designed it and the guy that makes the fluid that goes into it.  
You, me Lawrie, Ed aren't even close. (well maybe Lawrie is close) Every 
factory shop manual I have ever seen in my 30+ years of working on cars 
professionally warn never to reuse fluid (this is the guy who designed the 
system).  The company that I work for now (Volvo) even says not to reuse 
freshly bled fluid.  Fluid makers also make the same warnings.
Now if you believe that this is the only way to a high hard pedal there is a 
safe, no argument way to do this.  Instead of running the tube back to the 
master try this.  Get a soda bottle (clear) find a piece of tubing that just 
fits over the bleed screw.  Cut a piece of this tubing about 12-18 inches 
long.  Using mechanics wire or safety wire secure the hose to the neck of the 
bottle (make sure that the hose is not squished by the wire and air/fluid can 
pass) Oh yeah I almost forgot, have the end of the hose about 1/8 inch off 
the bottom of the bottle.  If you want to get fancy, make a hook with the 
wire, so that you can hang the bottle off part of the car.  Place a small 
amount of fluid in the bottom of the bottle to cover the end of the hose.
How to use:  Place hose on bleed screw.  Route the hose so that it goes up 
and then down into the bottle. In other words at least part of the hose needs 
to be above the bleed screw.  Open the bleed screw and pump the pedal slowly, 
don't let the master go dry.  When you are happy with the amount of fluid 
that you have pumped through the system close the bleed screw and disconnect 
the hose.  Dispose of the fluid correctly (do not pour into drain oil, the 
chlorine in the brake fluid turns recyclable oil into hazdours waste.)  
There everybody is happy  NO reuse of fluid and the hard pedal that Rock 
wants.
Can we move on to another cat thread now?
Rick Ewald

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