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Re: [Mgs] Sunday morning, a bit OT

To: Max Heim <mvheim@sonic.net>
Subject: Re: [Mgs] Sunday morning, a bit OT
From: Richard Lindsay via Mgs <mgs@autox.team.net>
Date: Sat, 12 Oct 2019 13:21:53 -0500
Cc: Hans Duinhoven <h.duinhoven@planet.nl>, MGs <mgs@autox.team.net>
Delivered-to: mharc@autox.team.net
Delivered-to: mgs@autox.team.net
References: <dad50428-922f-41aa-b567-eb6759096504@email.android.com> <DAF3FB762F9A4F37963E8C8FDFE1D716@paul> <CAOc+-dxzYAJxoO-jnztSFA2h8Sp+_tssfrRFuK0COh7tQy3QNw@mail.gmail.com> <92E7E5CE-F3BE-4F5C-97F7-298BBCB8E017@sonic.net>
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Only car I had problems with was my Lotus Esprit. Its fuel hose at the
tanks, fell apart when I gently squeezed it. Fortunately, that 'wasn't my
first rodeo' and I had an oil change pan under it!

On Sat, Oct 12, 2019, 12:51 PM Max Heim <mvheim@sonic.net> wrote:

> In California, they used MTBE as an oxygenator, prior to the widespread
> use of ethanol. Now I believe it has been replaced with ethanol across th=
e
> board.
>
> One hears a lot of complaints, but I haven=E2=80=99t had any real problem=
s with
> 10% ethanol fuel in my MG. My muscle car, with an advertised 10.5:1
> compression ratio V8, wasn=E2=80=99t very happy with 91 octane CA blend, =
but it ran
> with slightly retarded timing.
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
> On Oct 7, 2019, at 5:46 AM, Richard Lindsay via Mgs <mgs@autox.team.net>
> wrote:
>
> Hello friends,
>    Straight ethanol has an equivalent octane rating of 113, so mixing it
> with petrol increases the mixture's octane value. Of course, the quoted
> value on the pump already takes this into account. Beyond that gem of
> useless knowledge, I'm close to lost.
>    Petrol is a mixture of hydrocarbons. We all know that. And Wikipedia
> can probably list them all in volume fraction order. But what is added
> today to increase the 87 octane value, other than ethanol? It used to be
> TEL, or tetraethyllead, but those days are long gone. The skeptical and
> distrusting scientist in me wants to believe that petrol manufacturers ar=
e
> using the ethanol content to elevate the effective octane rating thereby
> saving the other octane boosting stuff, whatever it is.
>
> Rick
>
>
> On Mon, Oct 7, 2019, 3:11 AM PaulHunt73 via Mgs <mgs@autox.team.net>
> wrote:
>
>> Fortunately the UK still has 5% max ethanol in both standard and high
>> octanes.  There is 'moral' pressure from some quarters on the Government=
 to
>> increase it to 10% max but suppliers can meet their legal requirements
>> purely with bio diesel, and don't want to be the first to go to 10% and =
get
>> bad publicity from complaints.  If the move against diesel gathers pace
>> that may force their hands.
>>
>> The main problem with fuel hoses and everything else rubber here is the
>> quality of the rubber itself.  I've always (30 years) run the roadster
>> on high octane but the V8 (24 years) always on standard which has had
>> ethanol at 5% max for 20 years now.  While 98 octane may not have contai=
ned
>> ethanol originally, suppliers tended to be cagey when asked directly, an=
d
>> others indicated that it varied according to where in the UK you bought
>> it.  Four years ago I decided to replace the V8 pump hoses as the braidi=
ng
>> was crumbling when it came to me so they were probably original - but as
>> far as the rubber goes the old ones were in perfect condition.  I even s=
lit
>> a piece lengthwise and opened it out but there wasn't a trace of crackin=
g.
>> When I first got the V8 it didn't have any carb overflow hoses so I
>> installed them, and they have had to be replaced since from severe crack=
ing
>> - and they don't even carry liquid fuel, only vapour.  I fitted non-brai=
ded
>> so I can keep an eye on the external condition at least, but I have no
>> doubt they won't last anywhere near as long as the originals.
>>
>> If standard here goes up to 10% - fortunately pumps are now required to
>> be labelled clearly on the pump as well as the nozzle itself - I'll run =
the
>> V8 on high octane as well, as that has been designated 'petrol protectio=
n
>> grade' for older vehicles for the foreseeable future.
>>
>> PaulH.
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> Last week 95 octane fuel has to be 10% bio-ethanol, which makes even
>> post-modern cars vulnerable for this nasty fuel additive.
>>
>> So I=E2=80=99ll change the type of fuel for my mopeds to a special one. =
The BGT
>> will get the 98 octane fuel, which contains 5% bio-ethanol.
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>>
>> Mgs@autox.team.net
>> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
>> Suggested annual donation  $12.75
>>
>> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/mgs http://autox.team.net/archive
>>
>> Unsubscribe:
>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/richardolindsay@gmail.com
>>
> _______________________________________________
>
> Mgs@autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $12.75
>
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/mgs http://autox.team.net/archive
>
> Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/mvheim@sonic.net
>
>

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<div dir=3D"auto">Only car I had problems with was my Lotus Esprit. Its fue=
l hose at the tanks, fell apart when I gently squeezed it. Fortunately, tha=
t &#39;wasn&#39;t my first rodeo&#39; and I had an oil change pan under it!=
</div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">=
On Sat, Oct 12, 2019, 12:51 PM Max Heim &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:mvheim@sonic.=
net">mvheim@sonic.net</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_qu=
ote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex=
"><div dir=3D"auto">In California, they used MTBE as an oxygenator, prior t=
o the widespread use of ethanol. Now I believe it has been replaced with et=
hanol across the board.<div><br></div><div>One hears a lot of complaints, b=
ut I haven=E2=80=99t had any real problems with 10% ethanol fuel in my MG. =
My muscle car, with an advertised 10.5:1 compression ratio V8, wasn=E2=80=
=99t very happy with 91 octane CA blend, but it ran with slightly retarded =
timing.<br><br><div id=3D"m_5875903480977978435AppleMailSignature" dir=3D"l=
tr">Sent from my iPad</div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br>On Oct 7, 2019, at 5:46 AM,=
 Richard Lindsay via Mgs &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:mgs@autox.team.net"; target=
=3D"_blank" rel=3D"noreferrer">mgs@autox.team.net</a>&gt; wrote:<br><br></d=
iv><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"auto"><div>Hello =
friends,<div dir=3D"auto">=C2=A0 =C2=A0Straight ethanol has an equivalent o=
ctane rating of 113, so mixing it with petrol increases the mixture&#39;s o=
ctane value. Of course, the quoted value on the pump already takes this int=
o account. Beyond that gem of useless knowledge, I&#39;m close to lost.</di=
v><div dir=3D"auto">=C2=A0 =C2=A0Petrol is a mixture of hydrocarbons. We al=
l know that. And Wikipedia can probably list them all in volume fraction or=
der. But what is added today to increase the 87 octane value, other than et=
hanol? It used to be TEL, or tetraethyllead, but those days are long gone. =
The skeptical and distrusting scientist in me wants to believe that petrol =
manufacturers are using the ethanol content to elevate the effective octane=
 rating thereby saving the other octane boosting stuff, whatever it is.</di=
v><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">Rick</div><br><br><div clas=
s=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Mon, Oct 7, 2019=
, 3:11 AM PaulHunt73 via Mgs &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:mgs@autox.team.net"; targ=
et=3D"_blank" rel=3D"noreferrer">mgs@autox.team.net</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div=
><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1=
px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><u></u>





<div bgcolor=3D"#ffffff">
<div><font size=3D"2">Fortunately the UK still has 5% max ethanol=C2=A0in b=
oth=20
standard and high octanes.=C2=A0 There is &#39;moral&#39; pressure from som=
e quarters on=20
the Government to increase it to 10% max but suppliers can meet their legal=
=20
requirements purely with bio diesel, and=C2=A0don&#39;t want to be the firs=
t to go=20
to 10% and get bad publicity from complaints.=C2=A0 If the move against die=
sel=20
gathers pace that may force their hands.</font></div>
<div><font size=3D"2"></font>=C2=A0</div>
<div><font size=3D"2">The main problem with fuel hoses and everything else =
rubber=20
here is the quality of the rubber itself.=C2=A0 </font><font size=3D"2">I&#=
39;ve always=20
(30 years) run the roadster on high octane but the V8 (24 years) always on=
=20
standard which has=C2=A0had ethanol at 5% max for 20 years now.=C2=A0 While=
 98=20
octane may not have contained ethanol originally, suppliers tended to be ca=
gey=20
when asked directly, and others indicated that it varied according to where=
 in=20
the UK you bought it.=C2=A0 Four years ago I decided to replace the V8 pump=
=20
hoses as the braiding was crumbling when it came to me so they were probabl=
y=20
original=C2=A0-=C2=A0but as far as the rubber goes the old ones were in per=
fect=20
condition.=C2=A0 I even slit a piece lengthwise and opened it out but there=
=20
wasn&#39;t a trace of cracking.=C2=A0 When I first got the V8 it didn&#39;t=
 have any=20
carb overflow hoses so I installed them, and they have had to be replaced s=
ince=20
from severe cracking - and they don&#39;t even carry liquid fuel, only vapo=
ur.=C2=A0=20
I fitted non-braided so I can keep an eye on the external condition at leas=
t,=20
but I have no doubt they won&#39;t last anywhere near as long as the=20
originals.</font></div>
<div><font size=3D"2"></font>=C2=A0</div>
<div><font size=3D"2">If standard here goes up to 10% - fortunately pumps a=
re now=20
required to be labelled clearly on the pump as well as the nozzle itself - =
I&#39;ll=20
run the V8 on high octane as well, as that has been designated &#39;petrol=
=20
protection grade&#39; for older vehicles for the foreseeable future.</font>=
</div>
<div><font size=3D"2"></font>=C2=A0</div>
<div><font size=3D"2">PaulH.</font></div>
<blockquote style=3D"BORDER-LEFT:#000000 2px solid;PADDING-LEFT:5px;PADDING=
-RIGHT:0px;MARGIN-LEFT:5px;MARGIN-RIGHT:0px">
  <div style=3D"FONT:10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </div>
  <div style=3D"FONT:10pt arial;BACKGROUND:#e4e4e4"><span style=3D"FONT-FAM=
ILY:&#39;calibri&#39;,&#39;sans-serif&#39;;COLOR:#1f497d;FONT-SIZE:11pt">La=
st=20
  week 95 octane fuel has to be 10% bio-ethanol, which makes even post-mode=
rn=20
  cars vulnerable for this nasty fuel additive.</span></div>
  <div class=3D"gmail_extra">
  <div class=3D"gmail_quote">
  <blockquote style=3D"BORDER-LEFT:#ccc 1px solid;MARGIN:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;=
PADDING-LEFT:1ex">
    <div>
    <div>
    <p><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY:&#39;calibri&#39;,&#39;sans-serif&#39;;CO=
LOR:#1f497d;FONT-SIZE:11pt">So=20
    I=E2=80=99ll change the type of fuel for my mopeds to a special one. Th=
e BGT will=20
    get the 98 octane fuel, which contains 5%=20
  bio-ethanol.</span></p></div></div></blockquote></div></div></blockquote>=
</div>
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</blockquote></div></div></div>
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