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Braking system disagreements

To: spridgets@autox.team.net
Subject: Braking system disagreements
Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2003 15:44:11 EDT
Hi list,

It was early this morning when I got to bed so don't have time to really give 
this subject justice so this will have to do for now.

1.  The 1500 is heavier than all the other Spridgets and the brakes are 
different uniquely in having different rear cylinder sizes.

2.  In my earlier points about the effect of the different cylinder sizes I 
might be wrong because I neither checked whether there were bigger or smaller 
let alone whether that made the back brakes work harder or not.  

3.  Because the 1500 weighs more the brakes have more work to do period.  I 
don't hold much value in a comparasion with a racing Spridget and have in the 
past made the point about racing cars never stopping during a race unless they 
hit something so there is a huge debate around whether a road car or racing 
car works the brakes the hardest.  There is no comparable data on this point so 
we can agree to differ.  A reference weight for the 1500 might be somewhat 
shocking (don't see to many on the race track).

4.   I realised a long time ago that I must drive harder and brake later than 
most people that race Sprites at speeds just as fast (I run a 5 speed box on 
a 3.9 diff) and brake to lower speeds and even sometimes to a stop.  HOWEVER, 
this is just me and my arguments make allowances for that.

5.  There is debate around the whole wording of adequate and braking. I have 
a view on this (see item 4) but don't rely it but rather simple physics that 
the front brakes do most of the braking and that a 1500 Midget front brakes 
have to work harder than other Spridgets because they weigh more and under 
braking weight transfer is foward.  I don't buy into the the harder front 
springs 
argument though it was an interesting point  - the weight transfer is a matter 
of physics - all stiffer springs might do is reduce the nose dipping as much 
and in any case the ride height is bigger.

6.  All that stuff on rear cylinder sizes I don't think this is boyles law, 
points well made though you have to come back to the all up weight of the car 
and forward weight transfer.

7.  Brake fade whether fluide fade or friction fade is not a complaint 
Anthony originally made so I think it can be discarded on the basis that from 
the 
word go the car took a lot of stopping not that at first it braked ok and then 
the pedal did this or that of felt like this or that.

8.  I still think that if Anthony is used to Servoed/power boost brakes he 
might just not be used to really standing on the pedal.  At Sprite Spree it 
took 
me nearly all the time I was there to realise that the brakes on Franks A40, 
even with all my family in it (oh and that one time with Mike Weeks, Alan and 
a third person I forget (this is a lot of guys !!!) braked just fine and that 
it had simply been a decade since I last drove a car with no power/servo 
assist (I have a Servo on my Sprite).

9.  No further comment on discs at the rear!!

10.  A point about pedal pressure is that swapping slaves and masters doesn't 
give you everthing but you can have a harder or softer pedal and you can have 
longer or shorter travel but I don't think you get a softer shorter pedal - 
too late for me to check this stuff but you get my drift.  Also the 
crank/leverage of the 1500 (and some 1275s) is different from the earlier cars.

11.  I don't think I said that upgrading was a must or that the problem was 
poor maintenance (also see item 8) what I do say is that whatever else the 
brakes on the 1500 have to work harder simply because the car weighs more than 
any 
of the other cars by a significant amount.

That's it for now, got stuff to do!

Daniel1312 - I brake harder.





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