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Re: [Tigers] Tigers Digest, Vol 15, Issue 221

To: tigers@autox.team.net
Subject: Re: [Tigers] Tigers Digest, Vol 15, Issue 221
From: JAMES ARMSTRONG via Tigers <tigers@autox.team.net>
Date: Sat, 2 Jul 2022 18:23:04 -0400
Delivered-to: mharc@autox.team.net
Delivered-to: tigers@autox.team.net
References: <mailman.318.1656796215.24409.tigers@autox.team.net>
Sorry, as you might imagine the installation is pretty tight. Unless I had the 
car up on a lift, pictures are not going to happen. Let me think about it 
though there may be a way. But it wonâ??t be quick

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jul 2, 2022, at 5:57 PM, tigers-request@autox.team.net wrote:
> 
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> Today's Topics:
> 
>   1. Re: Evans Waterless Cooling (Buck Trippel)
>   2. Re: Tigers Digest, Vol 15, Issue 218 (Jim D'Amelio)
> 
> 
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Message: 1
> Date: Sat, 2 Jul 2022 13:13:46 -0700
> From: "Buck Trippel" <bucktrippel@verizon.net>
> To: <owain.lloyd@gmail.com>,    "'LARRY PAULICK'" <lpaulick1@verizon.net>
> Cc: <tigers@autox.team.net>
> Subject: Re: [Tigers] Evans Waterless Cooling
> Message-ID: <0d2f01d88e50$3cc65b70$b6531250$@verizon.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> 
> Owain, have you encountered either high outside air temps or high altitudes 
> when using Evans in your Tiger?
> 
> 
> 
> Buck
> 
> 
> 
> From: Owain Lloyd <owain.lloyd@gmail.com> 
> Sent: Saturday, July 2, 2022 8:42 AM
> To: LARRY PAULICK <lpaulick1@verizon.net>
> Cc: Buck Trippel <bucktrippel@verizon.net>; tigers@autox.team.net
> Subject: Re: [Tigers] Evans Waterless Cooling
> 
> 
> 
> Assuming all those things are done, evans is still not quite up to the job in 
> my car.  Most of those cooling tricks are for slow moving car.  My car ran 
> too hot even at speed with evans and the less than perfect radiator.  As I 
> said, with a better radiator or with water instead it is fine.
> 
> 
> 
> My reason for preferring brass is that it can be easily soldered.  I 
> struggled on for a long time with my brass radiator but eventually it was 
> just too stress fatigued and needed frequent repair.  If I could get a new 
> brass one I would certainly prefer that.
> 
> 
> 
> Il giorno sab 2 lug 2022 alle 17:36 LARRY PAULICK <lpaulick1@verizon.net 
> <mailto:lpaulick1@verizon.net> > ha scritto:
> 
> Another issue is aluminum versus brass radiators.  Aluminum radiators are 
> lighter but  brass transfers heat more efficiently.
> 
> 
> 
> When I redid my tiger, I used a three row versus a stock two row brass 
> retaining the top, bottom, and sides so that the fit was not affected.
> 
> 
> 
> Also if you're replacing or having overheating problems, a closed impeller 
> type water pump is much more efficient. Some aftermarket companies sell them 
> already set up this way, but you can buy just the impeller plate from Summit 
> for a very low price and install it yourself. Pumping efficiency is greatly 
> improved.
> 
> 
> 
> TEAE did a study many years ago on all aspects of cooling. This excellent 
> engineering study is still applicable today and well worth reading, 
> dispelling a lot of myths.
> 
> 
> 
> Another design problem with the tiger is that there is no lower portion of 
> the fan shroud. As a result, hot air is removed from the radiator then goes 
> down to the ground and circles back through the front of the radiator, at 
> rest.
> 
> 
> 
> I know this for a fact since I did smoke test and watched the air 
> recirculating.
> 
> 
> 
> I fabricated a lower fan shroud from sheet metal, and made a low cost plastic 
> air dam that comes down about 4 inches, to help the flow of air through the 
> radiator and continue towards the rear of the car while in motion.
> 
> 
> 
> Bottom line it all works and I don't overheat.
> 
> 
> 
> I have to laugh at the commentos who keeps saying that the V8 takes up so 
> much space that that's why they overheat. Just look at today's cars and how 
> they fill the engine bay and it becomes apparent this is another myth.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Jul 2, 2022, at 10:29 AM, Owain Lloyd <owain.lloyd@gmail.com 
> <mailto:owain.lloyd@gmail.com> > wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> Yep.  I run in most cars with no problems but in the tiger with the 500hp 
> motor I needed every bit of efficiency possible so had to switch off even 
> back to water and antifreeze.  It worked sort of ok with the dale radiator 
> but then I switched to another brand radiator and it just couldn?t keep the 
> temps down.   Pretty sure it would be doable with an efficient and lower 
> power motor if all the other cooling problems were taken care of.
> 
> 
> 
> Il giorno sab 2 lug 2022 alle 16:05 Buck Trippel via Tigers 
> <tigers@autox.team.net <mailto:tigers@autox.team.net> > ha scritto:
> 
> In August of the hot summer of 2019 (aren?t they all hot now?) I put Evans in 
> a Tiger which has an excellent two row aluminum radiator in front of a rather 
> stock 289. My wife and I put the Tiger through an almost 5-thousand mile road 
> test by driving from Los Angeles to La Crosse via I80/I90 to attend the TEAE 
> United and then Route 66 on the way home. Temperatures were frequently at 100 
> degrees. So it got quite a test.
> 
> 
> 
> The Evans did not boil but with hot outside air temperatures its inferior 
> specific heat (to water) could not remove adequately remove the engine heat. 
> 
> 
> 
> The carb got so hot the fuel percolated (boiled) inside the bowls and the 
> engine stalled lean. This weakness was exacerbated at altitudes above 
> 4-thousand feet. In Pueblo, with OATs near 100 I ended up on the same AAA tow 
> truck twice on the same day. I then gave up and reluctantly drained maybe 
> half of the the costly coolant out, replacing it with plain water so I could 
> get home. However the percolation reoccurred crossing the Mojave in the 115 
> degree August temps. At home I replaced the Evans with water, adding Water 
> Wetter for corrosion protection. 
> 
> 
> 
> I don?t have the numbers off the top of my head but the specific heat (or 
> ability to transfer heat) of water is 1.00 while Evans is something like .65 
> or only 2/3 that of water. For me, Evans just did not do the job. From my 
> experience I?d say one would have to be exceptionally brave to use it, 
> especially with a stock radiator system or with a more powerful engine which 
> will place even more demand on the Tiger?s weak cooling system. (BTW in the 
> Tiger we drove on that trip, we had removed the stock block under the carb 
> that hot radiator fluid passes through which probably have made even more of 
> a problem.)
> 
> 
> 
> Buck Trippel
> 
> Ps I wrote up some of this years ago and I believe it contained a more 
> detailed account of Evans heating issues on the trip ? I think it was 
> published in both the TEAE and CAT newletters.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> From: Tigers <tigers-bounces@autox.team.net 
> <mailto:tigers-bounces@autox.team.net> > On Behalf Of Dr. T. Y. McDowell
> Sent: Saturday, July 2, 2022 5:06 AM
> To: Tiger's List <tigers@autox.team.net <mailto:tigers@autox.team.net> >
> Subject: [Tigers] Evans Waterless Cooling
> 
> 
> 
> Is anyone out there in Tigerland using Evans Waterless Coolant? 
> 
> It has a boiling point of 375 (F).  I'd like to hear from anyone who's using 
> it as I'm considering it. 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks in advance, 
> 
> 
> 
> Tym McDowell 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> 
> tigers@autox.team.net <mailto:tigers@autox.team.net> 
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> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 2
> Date: Sat, 02 Jul 2022 17:10:10 -0400
> From: Jim D'Amelio <jimdamelio@verizon.net>
> To: JAMES ARMSTRONG <rollright@aol.com>, tigers@autox.team.net
> Subject: Re: [Tigers] Tigers Digest, Vol 15, Issue 218
> Message-ID: <556932685.2580126.1656796213542@verizon.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> 
> James,??Would you happen to have any pictures of the lower shroud?Jim DSent 
> from my Galaxy
> -------- Original message --------From: JAMES ARMSTRONG via Tigers 
> <tigers@autox.team.net> Date: 7/2/22  3:14 PM  (GMT-05:00) To: 
> tigers@autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Tigers] Tigers Digest, Vol 15, Issue 218 
> HelloI met a Canadian guy, I believe from Qu?bec at the 2000 TEAE United in 
> Rockland Maine. He said he was fabricating Lower fan shrouds.? I stayed in 
> touch, bought the device, had it installed on the Tiger and it works quite 
> nicely.My engine is a rebuilt 260 with a comp cam, Edelbrock F4B, PerTronics, 
> and that?s it. A mild upgrade but the lower fan shroud does help. For really 
> really hot days, I?ve got a Kenlow pusher fan and with everything I have no 
> troubleSent from my iPhone> On Jul 2, 2022, at 12:05 PM, 
> tigers-request@autox.team.net wrote:> > ?Send Tigers mailing list submissions 
> to>??? tigers@autox.team.net> > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World 
> Wide Web, visit>??? http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers> or, via 
> email, send a message with subject or body 'help' 
> to>??? tigers-request@autox.team.net> > You can reach the person managing the 
> list at>??? tigers-owner@autox.team.net> > When replying, please edit your 
> Subject line so it is more specific> than "Re: Contents of Tigers digest..."> 
> > > Today's Topics:> >?? 1. Re: Evans Waterless Cooling (Owain Lloyd)>?? 2. 
> Re: Evans Waterless Cooling (LARRY PAULICK)> > > 
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------> > 
> Message: 1> Date: Sat, 2 Jul 2022 16:29:17 +0200> From: Owain Lloyd 
> <owain.lloyd@gmail.com>> To: Buck Trippel <bucktrippel@verizon.net>> Cc: "Dr. 
> T. Y. McDowell" <tym2@comcast.net>, "Tiger's List">??? 
> <tigers@autox.team.net>> Subject: Re: [Tigers] Evans Waterless Cooling> 
> Message-ID:>??? 
> <CANE47iQLDVr=D_km8HR0ofZyQCG2soZ2fKYc2oBq9EpwUSgtoA@mail.gmail.com>> 
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"> > Yep.? I run in most cars with no 
> problems but in the tiger with the 500hp> motor I needed every bit of 
> efficiency possible so had to switch off even> back to water
>  and antifreeze.? It worked sort of ok with the dale radiator> but then I 
> switched to another brand radiator and it just couldn?t keep the> temps 
> down.?? Pretty sure it would be doable with an efficient and lower> power 
> motor if all the other cooling problems were taken care of.> > Il giorno sab 
> 2 lug 2022 alle 16:05 Buck Trippel via Tigers <> tigers@autox.team.net> ha 
> scritto:> >> In August of the hot summer of 2019 (aren?t they all hot now?) I 
> put Evans>> in a Tiger which has an excellent two row aluminum radiator in 
> front of a>> rather stock 289. My wife and I put the Tiger through an almost 
> 5-thousand>> mile road test by driving from Los Angeles to La Crosse via 
> I80/I90 to>> attend the TEAE United and then Route 66 on the way home. 
> Temperatures were>> frequently at 100 degrees. So it got quite a test.>> >> 
> >> >> The Evans did not boil but with hot outside air temperatures its 
> inferior>> specific heat (to water) could not remove adequately remove the 
> engine>> heat.>> >> >> >> The
>  carb got so hot the fuel percolated (boiled) inside the bowls and the>> 
> engine stalled lean. This weakness was exacerbated at altitudes above>> 
> 4-thousand feet. In Pueblo, with OATs near 100 I ended up on the same AAA>> 
> tow truck twice on the same day. I then gave up and reluctantly drained>> 
> maybe half of the the costly coolant out, replacing it with plain water so>> 
> I could get home. However the percolation reoccurred crossing the Mojave in>> 
> the 115 degree August temps. At home I replaced the Evans with water,>> 
> adding Water Wetter for corrosion protection.>> >> >> >> I don?t have the 
> numbers off the top of my head but the specific heat (or>> ability to 
> transfer heat) of water is 1.00 while Evans is something like>> .65 or only 
> 2/3 that of water. For me, Evans just did not do the job. From>> my 
> experience I?d say one would have to be exceptionally brave to use it,>> 
> especially with a stock radiator system or with a more powerful engine>> 
> which will place even more demand on the
> Tiger?s weak cooling system. (BTW>> in the Tiger we drove on that trip, we 
> had removed the stock block under>> the carb that hot radiator fluid passes 
> through which probably have made>> even more of a problem.)>> >> >> >> Buck 
> Trippel>> >> Ps I wrote up some of this years ago and I believe it contained 
> a more>> detailed account of Evans heating issues on the trip ? I think it 
> was>> published in both the TEAE and CAT newletters.>> >> >> >> >> >> *From:* 
> Tigers <tigers-bounces@autox.team.net> *On Behalf Of *Dr. T. Y.>> McDowell>> 
> *Sent:* Saturday, July 2, 2022 5:06 AM>> *To:* Tiger's List 
> <tigers@autox.team.net>>> *Subject:* [Tigers] Evans Waterless Cooling>> >> >> 
> >> Is anyone out there in Tigerland using Evans Waterless Coolant?>> >> It 
> has a boiling point of 375 (F).? I'd like to hear from anyone who's>> using 
> it as I'm considering it.>> >> >> >> Thanks in advance,>> >> >> >> Tym 
> McDowell>> _______________________________________________>> >> 
> tigers@autox.team.net>> >> Donate: http
> ://www.team.net/donate.html>> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers>> 
> http://autox.team.net/archive>> >> Unsubscribe:>> 
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/owain.lloyd@gmail.com>> >> >> > 
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> <http://autox.team.net/pipermail/tigers/attachments/20220702/fd9385ca/attachment-0001.htm>>
>  > ------------------------------> > Message: 2> Date: Sat, 2 Jul 2022 
> 11:35:56 -0400> From: LARRY PAULICK <lpaulick1@verizon.net>> To: 
> owain.lloyd@gmail.com> Cc: Buck Trippel <bucktrippel@verizon.net>, 
> "tigers@autox.team.net">??? <tigers@autox.team.net>> Subject: Re: [Tigers] 
> Evans Waterless Cooling> Message-ID: 
> <8EE82D37-2D80-4774-8AAA-C9B6AF6C080E@verizon.net>> Content-Type: text/plain; 
> charset="utf-8"> > Another issue is aluminum versus brass radiators.? 
> Aluminum radiators are lighter but? brass transfers heat more efficiently.> > 
> > When I redid my tiger, I used a three row versus a stock two row brass retai
> ning the top, bottom, and sides so that the fit was not affected.> > Also if 
> you're replacing or having overheating problems, a closed impeller type water 
> pump is much more efficient. Some aftermarket companies sell them already set 
> up this way, but you can buy just the impeller plate from Summit for a very 
> low price and install it yourself. Pumping efficiency is greatly improved.> > 
> TEAE > did a study many years ago on all aspects of cooling. This excellent 
> engineering study is still applicable today and well worth reading, 
> dispelling a lot of myths.> > > Another design problem with the tiger is that 
> there is no lower portion of the fan shroud. As a result, hot air is removed 
> from the radiator then goes down to the ground and circles back through the 
> front of the radiator, at rest.> > > I know this for a fact since I did smoke 
> test and watched the air recirculating.> > I fabricated a lower fan shroud 
> from sheet metal, and made a low cost plastic air dam that comes down about 4 
> inch
> es, to help> the flow of air through the radiator and continue towards the 
> rear of the car while in motion.> > Bottom line it all works and I don't 
> overheat.> > I have to laugh at the commentos who keeps saying that the V8 
> takes up so much space that that's why they overheat. Just look at today's 
> cars and how they fill the engine bay and it becomes apparent this is another 
> myth.> >> On Jul 2, 2022, at 10:29 AM, Owain Lloyd <owain.lloyd@gmail.com> 
> wrote:>> >> Yep.? I run in most cars with no problems but in the tiger with 
> the 500hp motor I needed every bit of efficiency possible so had to switch 
> off even back to water and antifreeze.? It worked sort of ok with the dale 
> radiator but then I switched to another brand radiator and it just couldn?t 
> keep the temps down.?? Pretty sure it would be doable with an efficient and 
> lower power motor if all the other cooling problems were taken care of.>> >> 
> Il giorno sab 2 lug 2022 alle 16:05 Buck Trippel via Tigers 
> <tigers@autox.team.net <mailto:
> tigers@autox.team.net>> ha scritto:>> In August of the hot summer of 2019 
> (aren?t they all hot now?) I put Evans in a Tiger which has an excellent two 
> row aluminum radiator in front of a rather stock 289. My wife and I put the 
> Tiger through an almost 5-thousand mile road test by driving from Los Angeles 
> to La Crosse via I80/I90 to attend the TEAE United and then Route 66 on the 
> way home. Temperatures were frequently at 100 degrees. So it got quite a 
> test.>> >> >> >> The Evans did not boil but with hot outside air temperatures 
> its inferior specific heat (to water) could not remove adequately remove the 
> engine heat. >> >> >> >> The carb got so hot the fuel percolated (boiled) 
> inside the bowls and the engine stalled lean. This weakness was exacerbated 
> at altitudes above 4-thousand feet. In Pueblo, with OATs near 100 I ended up 
> on the same AAA tow truck twice on the same day. I then gave up and 
> reluctantly drained maybe half of the the costly coolant out, replacing it 
> with plain water s
> o I could get home. However the percolation reoccurred crossing the Mojave in 
> the 115 degree August temps. At home I replaced the Evans with water, adding 
> Water Wetter for corrosion protection. >> >> >> >> I don?t have the numbers 
> off the top of my head but the specific heat (or ability to transfer heat) of 
> water is 1.00 while Evans is something like .65 or only 2/3 that of water. 
> For me, Evans just did not do the job. From my experience I?d say one would 
> have to be exceptionally brave to use it, especially with a stock radiator 
> system or with a more powerful engine which will place even more demand on 
> the Tiger?s weak cooling system. (BTW in the Tiger we drove on that trip, we 
> had removed the stock block under the carb that hot radiator fluid passes 
> through which probably have made even more of a problem.)>> >> >> >> Buck 
> Trippel>> >> Ps I wrote up some of this years ago and I believe it contained 
> a more detailed account of Evans heating issues on the trip ? I think it was 
> publishe
> d in both the TEAE and CAT newletters.>> >> >> >> >> >> From: Tigers 
> <tigers-bounces@autox.team.net <mailto:tigers-bounces@autox.team.net>> On 
> Behalf Of Dr. T. Y. McDowell>> Sent: Saturday, July 2, 2022 5:06 AM>> To: 
> Tiger's List <tigers@autox.team.net <mailto:tigers@autox.team.net>>>> 
> Subject: [Tigers] Evans Waterless Cooling>> >> >> >> Is anyone out there in 
> Tigerland using Evans Waterless Coolant? >> >> It has a boiling point of 375 
> (F).? I'd like to hear from anyone who's using it as I'm considering it. >> 
> >> >> >> Thanks in advance, >> >> >> >> Tym McDowell >> >> 
> _______________________________________________>> >> tigers@autox.team.net 
> <mailto:tigers@autox.team.net>>> >> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html 
> <http://www.team.net/donate.html>>> Archive: 
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