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Hi John,
=20
It is possible the PO bought a lowering kit which I recall uses shorter =
springs. =20
The lowering kit that Tony Hart Sells uses red springs, see if it looks =
like these:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Triumph-Stag-NEW-suspension-lowering-kit-MK1-AND-=
MK2-/371570077106?hash=3Ditem56834d6db2
=20
Have a look at the front springs, they have the tell-tale different coil =
spacing
=20
Lowering, when done correctly, will not leave the rear camber off =
because Tony=E2=80=99s kit uses new Camber adjusting blocks for the =
Semi-trailing arm to compensate for the lowering.=20
So something else must be off.
=20
If it is a Tony Hart Kit, there are instructions specifically to adjust =
the camber blocks correctly =E2=80=93 the inside ones might be on upside =
down. Maybe an email to Tony and ask him to email you the instructions =
for his kit if not in the PO=E2=80=99s paperwork.
=20
The site for TSN I intend to revive as soon as I can get access to the =
files from Richard. There is too much historical information there.
Stag-By-Triumph Garage is an extension of TSN but for the physical part, =
and will be linked to TSN when it is back up and running on a new =
provider.
=20
Cheers!
=20
=20
Glenn Merrell =20
aka StagByTriumph Garage (now on FaceBook)
Remember, =E2=80=9Cthe BEST trophies are: Miles on the Odometer; Stone =
chips in the paint; and DEAD BUGS on the windscreen =E2=80=A6 with the =
occasional smell of manure!=E2=80=9D
=20
=20
=20
From: Lee&John Howard [mailto:leejohn7@gmail.com]=20
Sent: Thursday, March 10, 2016 12:37 PM
To: Glenn A. Merrell
Subject: Re: [TR] Stag Rear End Squat
=20
My apologies. Let me try again.
The car was totally stripped when I bought it. The PO had all new =
suspension parts, and I went about assembling according to the ROM and =
the Parts manual. This all happened in his garage, and after I got it =
on wheels and the engine installed, I trailered it home, and never =
noticed how badly out of whack the rear wheels are.
The four springs appeared to be a set, all colored orangey-red, and I'm =
now wondering if they are stock. Do you what the relaxed length is =
supposed to be? I also have a toe-in problem, and discover I put the =
shims on the inside bracket! That's the sort of thing that's been =
happening all along as I lacked the knowledge that comes from being the =
disassembler.=20
I will definitely check those bolt holes; while I should have noticed =
when putting it together, very likely I did not.
I like your repair and could deal with it if necessary, but I'msure not =
anxious to drop the rear end. I am so close to the road!
Thanks for your regular help on this.
Have you dropped your old website in favor of the Facebook page? ( which =
is good fun, BTW.)
=20
On Thu, Mar 10, 2016 at 9:06 AM, <StagByTriumph@triumphstagclub.org> =
wrote:
Hi John,
My apologies for the delay.
You mention this project was in boxes? Was the suspension also in boxes =
or was it a rolling chassis?=20
Excessive rear camber, in my experience, is almost always due to =
elongation of the subframe bolt holes supporting the differential. =20
This allows the subframe arms to lower, in turn taking the trailing arms =
to sag toward the center of the chassis, and in turn the camber becomes =
excessive.
The only lateral hold of the subframe bolts is a bit of bent sheet steel =
that cannot support the bolt weight.=20
I have photos somewhere of repairs to the subframe inner bolt holes =
where I applied a repair using heavy wall pipe with an ID that matched =
the OD of the Subframe bolts. =20
I drilled out the subframe holes using a unibit in a drill press to fit =
the OD of the pipe, cut pipe pieces to fit to the outside edge of the =
subframe metal and welded them in place. Then I suitably ground, =
painted and rustproofed the upgrade repair.=20
Alternatively it might be weak coil springs, however that can be =
temporarily corrected by adding a machined spacer or thicker rubber =
insulators under the spring.=20
First check however would be the subframe bolt holes. You can jack the =
car and look to see of the differential plate to subframe arms has =
shifted, a tell-tale sign of elongation of the bolt holes.=20
Cheers!
Glenn Merrell aka StagByTriumph Garage (now on FaceBook)
=20
Remember, =E2=80=9Cthe BEST trophies are: Miles on the Odometer; Stone =
chips in the paint; and DEAD BUGS on the windscreen =E2=80=A6 with the =
occasional smell of manure!=E2=80=9D
=20
From: Triumphs [mailto:triumphs-bounces@autox.team.net] On Behalf Of =
Lee&John Howard
Sent: Wednesday, March 09, 2016 3:44 PM
To: triumph list list
Subject: [TR] Stag Rear End Squat
=20
Well, the Stag motor purrs, drove to the end of driveway and back (!) =
and all seems well.
BUT the rear end sags something awful, showing a reverse camber of a =
full inch. Are the springs too short? Remember I bought this project "in =
boxes" and all suspension parts were new. I don't remember it being this =
bad when I trailered it to the paint shop, but that doesn't mean much.=20
Despite the squat, the car sits pretty level, only about 1/2 inch lower =
at the rear measuring from the rocker chrome.
Could the DPO have simply bought the incorrect spring? Or is it =
something else?
Many thanks
John Howard
Oh - and cannot connect to the Stag list. Is something up (or down) =
there?
=20
=20
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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=3DEN-US link=3Dblue =
vlink=3Dpurple><div class=3DWordSection1><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Hi John,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>It is possible the PO bought a lowering kit which I recall uses =
shorter springs. =C2=A0<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>The lowering kit that Tony Hart Sells uses red springs, see if it =
looks like these:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><a =
href=3D"http://www.ebay.com/itm/Triumph-Stag-NEW-suspension-lowering-kit-=
MK1-AND-MK2-/371570077106?hash=3Ditem56834d6db2">http://www.ebay.com/itm/=
Triumph-Stag-NEW-suspension-lowering-kit-MK1-AND-MK2-/371570077106?hash=3D=
item56834d6db2</a><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Have a look at the front springs, they have the tell-tale different =
coil spacing<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Lowering, when done correctly, will not leave the rear camber off =
because Tony=E2=80=99s kit uses new Camber adjusting blocks for the =
Semi-trailing arm to compensate for the lowering. =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>So something else must be off.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>If it is a Tony Hart Kit, there are instructions specifically to =
adjust the camber blocks correctly =E2=80=93 the inside ones might be on =
upside down.=C2=A0 Maybe an email to Tony and ask him to email you the =
instructions for his kit if not in the PO=E2=80=99s =
paperwork.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>The site for TSN I intend to revive as soon as I can get access to =
the files from Richard.=C2=A0 There is too much historical information =
there.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Stag-By-Triumph Garage is an extension of TSN but for the physical =
part, and will be linked to TSN when it is back up and running on a new =
provider.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Cheers!<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Glenn Merrell=C2=A0 <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>aka StagByTriumph Garage (<i>now on =
FaceBook</i>)<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Remember, =E2=80=9Cthe BEST trophies are: Miles on the Odometer; =
Stone chips in the paint; and DEAD BUGS on the windscreen =E2=80=A6 with =
the occasional smell of manure!=E2=80=9D<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span>=
</b><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> =
Lee&John Howard [mailto:leejohn7@gmail.com] <br><b>Sent:</b> =
Thursday, March 10, 2016 12:37 PM<br><b>To:</b> Glenn A. =
Merrell<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [TR] Stag Rear End =
Squat<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><div><div><div><div><div><div=
><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'>My apologies. =
Let me try again.<o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'>The car was totally stripped when I =
bought it. The PO had all new suspension parts, and I went about =
assembling according to the ROM and the Parts manual. This all =
happened in his garage, and after I got it on wheels and the engine =
installed, I trailered it home, and never noticed how badly out of whack =
the rear wheels are.<o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'>The four springs appeared to be a =
set, all colored orangey-red, and I'm now wondering if they are =
stock. Do you what the relaxed length is supposed to be? I also =
have a toe-in problem, and discover I put the shims on the inside =
bracket! That's the sort of thing that's been happening all along =
as I lacked the knowledge that comes from being the disassembler. =
<o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=3DMsoNormal>I will definitely check those =
bolt holes; while I should have noticed when putting it together, very =
likely I did not.<o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'>I like your repair and could deal with it =
if necessary, but I'msure not anxious to drop the rear end. I am =
<u>so</u> close to the road!<o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'>Thanks for your regular help on =
this.<o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'>Have you dropped your old website in =
favor of the Facebook page? ( which is good fun, =
BTW.)<br><br><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div=
><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><p class=3DMsoNormal>On =
Thu, Mar 10, 2016 at 9:06 AM, <<a =
href=3D"mailto:StagByTriumph@triumphstagclub.org"; =
target=3D"_blank">StagByTriumph@triumphstagclub.org</a>> =
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Hi John,</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'> My apologies for the delay.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>You mention this project was in boxes? Was the suspension also =
in boxes or was it a rolling chassis? </span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Excessive rear camber, in my experience, is almost always due to =
elongation of the subframe bolt holes supporting the differential. =
</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>This allows the subframe arms to lower, in turn taking the trailing =
arms to sag toward the center of the chassis, and in turn the camber =
becomes excessive.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>The only lateral hold of the subframe bolts is a bit of bent sheet =
steel that cannot support the bolt weight. </span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>I have photos somewhere of repairs to the subframe inner bolt holes =
where I applied a repair using heavy wall pipe with an ID that matched =
the OD of the Subframe bolts. </span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>I drilled out the subframe holes using a unibit in a drill press to =
fit the OD of the pipe, cut pipe pieces to fit to the outside edge of =
the subframe metal and welded them in place. Then I suitably =
ground, painted and rustproofed the upgrade =
repair. </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Alternatively it might be weak coil springs, however that can be =
temporarily corrected by adding a machined spacer or thicker rubber =
insulators under the spring. </span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>First check however would be the subframe bolt holes. You can =
jack the car and look to see of the differential plate to subframe arms =
has shifted, a tell-tale sign of elongation of the bolt =
holes. </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Cheers!</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'> Glenn Merrell aka StagByTriumph Garage (now on =
FaceBook)</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Remember, =E2=80=9Cthe BEST trophies are: Miles on the Odometer; =
Stone chips in the paint; and DEAD BUGS on the windscreen =E2=80=A6 with =
the occasional smell of manure!=E2=80=9D</span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span>=
</b><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> =
Triumphs [mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:triumphs-bounces@autox.team.net"; =
target=3D"_blank">triumphs-bounces@autox.team.net</a>] <b>On Behalf Of =
</b>Lee&John Howard<br><b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, March 09, 2016 3:44 =
PM<br><b>To:</b> triumph list list<br><b>Subject:</b> [TR] Stag Rear End =
Squat</span><o:p></o:p></p><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p><=
/o:p></p><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Well, the =
Stag motor purrs, drove to the end of driveway and back (!) and all =
seems well.<o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt'>BUT the rear end =
sags something awful, showing a reverse camber of a full inch. Are the =
springs too short? Remember I bought this project "in boxes" =
and all suspension parts were new. I don't remember it being this bad =
when I trailered it to the paint shop, but that doesn't mean much. =
<o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt'>Despite the =
squat, the car sits pretty level, only about 1/2 inch lower at the rear =
measuring from the rocker chrome.<o:p></o:p></p></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt'>Could the DPO =
have simply bought the incorrect spring? Or is it something =
else?<o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt'>Many =
thanks<o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt'>John =
Howard<o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Oh - =
and cannot connect to the Stag list. Is something up (or down) =
there?<o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></div></div></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div></div></div></div></div></di=
v></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div></div></body></html>
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