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I second that notion.. dp
On 3/21/2023 4:56 AM, JOSEPH MATO wrote:
> Hi. John Esposito is the best LBC mechanic in CT and he has a shop in
> Oxford, CT called Quantum Mechanics. He is a math nut and works with
> the MG club and does the rebuilding work for TRF. He was making TR
> main shafts after he found no saleable units.
>
> Joe Mato
> 62 Wood Road
> Redding, CT 06896
> 917 232 1555
>
>
> On Monday, March 20, 2023 at 02:49:34 PM EDT,
> triumphs-request@autox.team.net <triumphs-request@autox.team.net> wrote:
>
>
> Send Triumphs mailing list submissions to
> triumphs@autox.team.net
>
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/triumphs
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> triumphs-request@autox.team.net
>
> You can reach the person managing the list at
> triumphs-owner@autox.team.net
>
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of Triumphs digest..."
>
>
> Today's Topics:
>
> Â 1. Calling anyone with transmission rebuilding experience -
> Â Â Â second attempt, part 1 (aribert neumann)
> Â 2. Calling anyone with transmission rebuilding experience - 2nd
> Â Â Â attempt, part2 (aribert neumann)
> Â 3. Re: Calling anyone with transmission rebuilding experience -
> Â Â Â second attempt, part 1 (DAVID MASSEY)
> Â 4. Re: Calling anyone with transmission rebuilding experience -
> Â Â Â 2nd attempt, part2 (DAVID MASSEY)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2023 19:46:53 -0400
> From: aribert neumann <aribertn@gmail.com>
> To: triumphs@autox.team.net
> Subject: [TR] Calling anyone with transmission rebuilding experience -
> Â Â Â second attempt, part 1
> Message-ID:
> <CAGkVM28WONnczb-ObP54A8pB0O4nMs-6QzVN_432Y8LqZ=Zq4A@mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> I tried to send this message yesterday but it has not appeared yet so I am
> resending it - guessing that I may have had too many (or too large of)
> images. I'll splint it into two messages and reduce the image file sizes
> - hopefully this message will go thru.
>
> I'll start off with a quick comment - as I started to type the e-mail
> address, up popped suggestions that started with TR. Third on the list
> was "TR3driver" - the late Randall (Young, I think). I sincerely hope
> someone will "fill his shoes" with respect to my questions. I'm not on
> any other Triumph related groups - you are all I've got for input.
>
> I am in the process of reassembling (or trying to) my GT6 transmission -
> please don't tune out, conceptually the trans is similar to the big
> Triumphs. On dismantling my trans, I observed that the split collars had
> spun on the main shaft, wearing a relief in the collars and raising an
> edge
> on the main shaft. What keeps the collars from rotating when 1st gear is
> in motion? I am focused on preventing this problem in the future. When I
> rotate first gear on the shaft, the split washers rotate with the
> shaft. I
> am wondering if the tolerance stack up of the 2nd & 3rd gear bushings,
> spacers, etc (from the circlip to the split collars) was too large
> allowing
> first gear to push the split collars forward on the shaft. What else
> could
> cause this rotation/wear?
>
> Images as follows - old mainshaft with raised edge from the spinning split
> washers, good & worn split washers, good split washers nested in the first
> gear pocket.  Off in digest mode preparing part 2 of this message.
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2023 19:52:24 -0400
> From: aribert neumann <aribertn@gmail.com>
> To: triumphs@autox.team.net
> Subject: [TR] Calling anyone with transmission rebuilding experience -
> Â Â Â 2nd attempt, part2
> Message-ID:
> Â Â Â <CAGkVM2_qddwDt8R2M5Wx1mGzUgXgX1kQH6noupRw_yA7JqY-BQ@mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> Next question - my (new) replacement main shaft is oversize in a couple of
> places. The diameter under the 2nd & 3rd gear bushings (I have opened up
> the bushings to only have a light interference fit). Worst is the
> diameter
> under the rear bearing. I can install the bearing but I have to hammer it
> ***hard*** to get it to fit on the shaft - can't be good for the bearing -
> guessing I might change the inner race diameter a miniscule amount. I'm
> thinking of sending this main shaft back to Spitbits and reusing my old
> main shaft. I have cleaned up the groove for the split collars on my
> lathe. The other damage on the shaft is on the nose where the cage
> bearing
> rides in the input shaft - this damage is only on one side of the
> shaft and
> only on half of the bearing surface (fore/aft). I am already going to
> replace the cage bearing with a bearing bronze bushing since the surface
> inside the input shaft pocket is showing wear also. The max amount of
> surface missing on the nose of the old main shaft is 0.003 in diameter.
> Images: exploded view from Bentley manual, nose of the old, worn
> mainshaft
>
> Your thoughts and suggestions please - off in digest mode awaiting your
> responses. Trying to formulate a new plan of attack for Monday morning.
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>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2023 12:39:48 +0000 (UTC)
> From: DAVID MASSEY <dave1massey@cs.com>
> To: "aribertn@gmail.com" <aribertn@gmail.com>,
> "triumphs@autox.team.net" <triumphs@autox.team.net>
> Subject: Re: [TR] Calling anyone with transmission rebuilding
> Â Â Â experience - second attempt, part 1
> Message-ID: <2090616878.2487776.1679315988251@mail.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> It has been many years (< 25, I think) but I once rebuilt a TR6
> transmission with a used mainshaft that had similar wear on a shoulder
> like that.? There was a thrust washer that fitted up against
> shoulder.? A few years later I was rebuilding it again.? The thrust
> washer had broken into parts.? My solution was to buy a new mainshaft
> (that is a story in itself) along with some other parts.? 25 years
> later that part is still soldering on.? (I had to rebuild again for
> layshaft issues but that's unrelated)
> I would be very reluctant to reuse that mainshaft.? The raised ridge
> is not what worries me it is the fact that the edge of the grove is
> not square and the thrust applied by the helical gears will point load
> the split collars and they will fail again.? The TR6 transmission si
> probably different but the basic design is similar and the force
> loading is also similar.? Helical gears are sued to keep tooth noise
> down but the fact that they are wound in a helical manner around the
> axis means the forces applied to the gears is at an angle to that
> axis.? Part of that force is used to rotate the shaft but the other is
> applied to the bearings at either end of the transmission meaning the
> split collars in your case will take up that force as an interface
> between the shaft and the bearing inner race.? I don't have enough
> experience to say whether the transmission will last a week, month,
> year or 10 years with that shaft but I would have much more confidence
> in a new, quality shaft.
>
> Dave
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: aribert neumann <aribertn@gmail.com>
> To: triumphs@autox.team.net
> Sent: Sun, Mar 19, 2023 6:46 pm
> Subject: [TR] Calling anyone with transmission rebuilding experience -
> second attempt, part 1
>
> I tried to send this message yesterday but it has not appeared yet so
> I am resending it - guessing that I may have had too many (or too
> large of) images.? ?I'll splint it into two messages and reduce the
> image file sizes - hopefully this message will go thru.
> I'll start off with a quick comment - as I started to type the e-mail
> address, up popped suggestions that started with TR.? ?Third on the
> list was "TR3driver" - the late Randall (Young, I think).? ?I
> sincerely hope someone will "fill his shoes" with respect to my
> questions.? ?I'm not on any other Triumph related groups - you are all
> I've got for input.
> I am in the process of reassembling (or trying to) my GT6 transmission
> - please don't tune out, conceptually the trans is similar to the big
> Triumphs.? ?On dismantling my trans, I observed that the split collars
> had spun on the main shaft, wearing a relief in the collars and
> raising an edge on the main shaft.? What keeps the collars from
> rotating when 1st gear is in motion?? I am focused on preventing this
> problem in the future.? When I rotate first gear on the shaft, the
> split washers rotate with the shaft.? I am wondering if the tolerance
> stack up of the 2nd & 3rd gear bushings, spacers, etc (from the
> circlip to the split collars) was too large allowing first gear to
> push the split collars forward on the shaft.? What else could cause
> this rotation/wear???
> Images as follows - old mainshaft with raised edge from the spinning
> split washers, good & worn split washers, good split washers nested in
> the first gear pocket.? ? Off in digest mode preparing part 2 of this
> message.
>
>
> ** triumphs@autox.team.net **
>
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/triumphs?
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>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2023 13:30:54 +0000 (UTC)
> From: DAVID MASSEY <dave1massey@cs.com>
> To: "aribertn@gmail.com" <aribertn@gmail.com>,
> "triumphs@autox.team.net" <triumphs@autox.team.net>
> Subject: Re: [TR] Calling anyone with transmission rebuilding
> Â Â Â experience - 2nd attempt, part2
> Message-ID: <583075131.2506945.1679319054463@mail.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> That looks like the heat treated, hardened? surface is starting to
> break up.? That is what happened to my layshaft.? Another reason to
> abandon that mainshaft.? If you have an alternate bearing combination
> that doesn't relay on that surface for the bearing rollers then the
> hardened surface is no longer critical.? But this is above my pay grade.
>
> BTW, I misinterpreted one of your previous photos.? The split washers
> transfer the lateral forces from the synchro hub to the mainshaft but
> the end result is the same, with a compromised groove surface like
> that the split collars will fail prematurely.?? If you open the grove
> to clean up the shoulder will the split washers stay in place?? If
> they fall out you have serious problems.? Even if they stay in place
> will it increase backlash?? Can you get oversized split collars?? Make
> shims?? All this is above my pay grade.
>
> Dave
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: aribert neumann <aribertn@gmail.com>
> To: triumphs@autox.team.net
> Sent: Sun, Mar 19, 2023 6:52 pm
> Subject: [TR] Calling anyone with transmission rebuilding experience -
> 2nd attempt, part2
>
> Next question - my (new) replacement main shaft is oversize in a
> couple of places.? ?The diameter under the 2nd & 3rd gear bushings (I
> have opened up the bushings to only have a light interference fit).?
> Worst is the diameter under the rear bearing.? I can install the
> bearing but I have to hammer it ***hard*** to get it to fit on the
> shaft - can't be good for the bearing - guessing I might change the
> inner race diameter a miniscule amount.? I'm thinking of sending this
> main shaft back to Spitbits and reusing my old main shaft.? I have
> cleaned up the groove for the split collars on my lathe.? The other
> damage on the shaft is on the nose where the cage bearing rides in the
> input shaft - this damage is only on one side of the shaft and only on
> half of the bearing surface (fore/aft).? I am already going to replace
> the cage bearing with a bearing bronze bushing since the surface
> inside the input shaft pocket is showing wear also.? The max amount of
> surface missing on the nose of the old m
> ain shaft is 0.003 in diameter.? ?Images:? exploded view from Bentley?
> manual, nose of the old, worn mainshaft
>
> Your thoughts and suggestions please - off in digest mode awaiting
> your responses.? Trying to formulate a new plan of attack for Monday
> morning.
>
> ** triumphs@autox.team.net **
>
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/triumphs?
> http://www.team.net/archive
>
> Unsubscribe/Manage:
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/triumphs/dave1massey@cs.com
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>
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>
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<p>I second that notion.. dp<br>
</p>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 3/21/2023 4:56 AM, JOSEPH MATO
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:1238041248.3024853.1679396173450@mail.yahoo.com">
<meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
<div class="ydp457cbbe1yahoo-style-wrap"
style="font-family:verdana, helvetica,
sans-serif;font-size:16px;">
<div>
<div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false">Hi. John Esposito is the
best LBC mechanic in CT and he has a shop in Oxford, CT
called Quantum Mechanics. He is a math nut and works with
the MG club and does the rebuilding work for TRF. He was
making TR main shafts after he found no saleable units.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div class="ydp457cbbe1signature">Joe Mato
<div>62 Wood Road</div>
<div>Redding, CT 06896</div>
<div>917 232 1555</div>
</div>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
</div>
<div id="ydp50442b40yahoo_quoted_0249459439"
class="ydp50442b40yahoo_quoted">
<div style="font-family:'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial,
sans-serif;font-size:13px;color:#26282a;">
<div> On Monday, March 20, 2023 at 02:49:34 PM EDT,
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="mailto:triumphs-request@autox.team.net";>triumphs-request@autox.team.net</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:triumphs-request@autox.team.net";><triumphs-request@autox.team.net></a>
wrote: </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>
<div dir="ltr">Send Triumphs mailing list submissions to<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">Â Â Â <a href="mailto:triumphs@autox.team.net";
rel="nofollow" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">triumphs@autox.team.net</a><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr"><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World
Wide Web, visit<br>
</div>
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class="moz-txt-link-freetext">http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/triumphs</a><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">or, via email, send a message with subject or
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<div dir="ltr">You can reach the person managing the list at<br>
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class="moz-txt-link-freetext">triumphs-owner@autox.team.net</a><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr"><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">When replying, please edit your Subject line
so it is more specific<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">than "Re: Contents of Triumphs digest..."<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr"><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr"><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">Today's Topics:<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr"><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">Â 1. Calling anyone with transmission
rebuilding experience -<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">Â Â Â second attempt, part 1 (aribert
neumann)<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">Â 2. Calling anyone with transmission
rebuilding experience - 2nd<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">Â Â Â attempt, part2 (aribert neumann)<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">Â 3. Re: Calling anyone with transmission
rebuilding experience -<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">Â Â Â second attempt, part 1 (DAVID MASSEY)<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">Â 4. Re: Calling anyone with transmission
rebuilding experience -<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">Â Â Â 2nd attempt, part2 (DAVID MASSEY)<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr"><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr"><br>
</div>
<div
dir="ltr">----------------------------------------------------------------------<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr"><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">Message: 1<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2023 19:46:53 -0400<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">From: aribert neumann <<a
href="mailto:aribertn@gmail.com"; rel="nofollow"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">aribertn@gmail.com</a>><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">To: <a href="mailto:triumphs@autox.team.net";
rel="nofollow" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">triumphs@autox.team.net</a><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">Subject: [TR] Calling anyone with
transmission rebuilding experience -<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">Â Â Â second attempt, part 1<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">Message-ID:<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">Â Â Â
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:CAGkVM28WONnczb-ObP54A8pB0O4nMs-6QzVN_432Y8LqZ=Zq4A@mail.gmail.com";><CAGkVM28WONnczb-ObP54A8pB0O4nMs-6QzVN_432Y8LqZ=Zq4A@mail.gmail.com></a><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr"><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">I tried to send this message yesterday but it
has not appeared yet so I am<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">resending it - guessing that I may have had
too many (or too large of)<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">images. I'll splint it into two messages and
reduce the image file sizes<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">- hopefully this message will go thru.<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr"><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">I'll start off with a quick comment - as I
started to type the e-mail<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">address, up popped suggestions that started
with TR. Third on the list<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">was "TR3driver" - the late Randall (Young, I
think). I sincerely hope<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">someone will "fill his shoes" with respect to
my questions. I'm not on<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">any other Triumph related groups - you are
all I've got for input.<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr"><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">I am in the process of reassembling (or
trying to) my GT6 transmission -<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">please don't tune out, conceptually the trans
is similar to the big<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">Triumphs. On dismantling my trans, I
observed that the split collars had<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">spun on the main shaft, wearing a relief in
the collars and raising an edge<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">on the main shaft. What keeps the collars
from rotating when 1st gear is<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">in motion? I am focused on preventing this
problem in the future. When I<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">rotate first gear on the shaft, the split
washers rotate with the shaft. I<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">am wondering if the tolerance stack up of the
2nd & 3rd gear bushings,<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">spacers, etc (from the circlip to the split
collars) was too large allowing<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">first gear to push the split collars forward
on the shaft. What else could<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">cause this rotation/wear?<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr"><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">Images as follows - old mainshaft with raised
edge from the spinning split<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">washers, good & worn split washers, good
split washers nested in the first<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">gear pocket.  Off in digest mode preparing
part 2 of this message.<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">-------------- next part --------------<br>
</div>
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</div>
<div dir="ltr">------------------------------<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr"><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">Message: 2<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2023 19:52:24 -0400<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">From: aribert neumann <<a
href="mailto:aribertn@gmail.com"; rel="nofollow"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">aribertn@gmail.com</a>><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">To: <a href="mailto:triumphs@autox.team.net";
rel="nofollow" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">triumphs@autox.team.net</a><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">Subject: [TR] Calling anyone with
transmission rebuilding experience -<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">Â Â Â 2nd attempt, part2<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">Message-ID:<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">Â Â Â <<a
href="mailto:CAGkVM2_qddwDt8R2M5Wx1mGzUgXgX1kQH6noupRw_yA7JqY-BQ@mail.gmail.com";
rel="nofollow" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">CAGkVM2_qddwDt8R2M5Wx1mGzUgXgX1kQH6noupRw_yA7JqY-BQ@mail.gmail.com</a>><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr"><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">Next question - my (new) replacement main
shaft is oversize in a couple of<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">places. The diameter under the 2nd & 3rd
gear bushings (I have opened up<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">the bushings to only have a light
interference fit). Worst is the diameter<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">under the rear bearing. I can install the
bearing but I have to hammer it<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">***hard*** to get it to fit on the shaft -
can't be good for the bearing -<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">guessing I might change the inner race
diameter a miniscule amount. I'm<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">thinking of sending this main shaft back to
Spitbits and reusing my old<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">main shaft. I have cleaned up the groove for
the split collars on my<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">lathe. The other damage on the shaft is on
the nose where the cage bearing<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">rides in the input shaft - this damage is
only on one side of the shaft and<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">only on half of the bearing surface
(fore/aft). I am already going to<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">replace the cage bearing with a bearing
bronze bushing since the surface<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">inside the input shaft pocket is showing wear
also. The max amount of<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">surface missing on the nose of the old main
shaft is 0.003 in diameter.<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr"> Images: exploded view from Bentley manual,
nose of the old, worn<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">mainshaft<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr"><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">Your thoughts and suggestions please - off in
digest mode awaiting your<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">responses. Trying to formulate a new plan of
attack for Monday morning.<br>
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<div dir="ltr"><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">------------------------------<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr"><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">Message: 3<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2023 12:39:48 +0000 (UTC)<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">From: DAVID MASSEY <<a
href="mailto:dave1massey@cs.com"; rel="nofollow"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">dave1massey@cs.com</a>><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">To: <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:aribertn@gmail.com";>"aribertn@gmail.com"</a> <<a
href="mailto:aribertn@gmail.com"; rel="nofollow"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">aribertn@gmail.com</a>>,<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">Â Â Â <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:triumphs@autox.team.net";>"triumphs@autox.team.net"</a> <<a
href="mailto:triumphs@autox.team.net"; rel="nofollow"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">triumphs@autox.team.net</a>><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">Subject: Re: [TR] Calling anyone with
transmission rebuilding<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">Â Â Â experience - second attempt, part 1<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">Message-ID: <<a
href="mailto:2090616878.2487776.1679315988251@mail.yahoo.com";
rel="nofollow" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">2090616878.2487776.1679315988251@mail.yahoo.com</a>><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr"><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr"> It has been many years (< 25, I think)
but I once rebuilt a TR6 transmission with a used
mainshaft that had similar wear on a shoulder like that.?
There was a thrust washer that fitted up against
shoulder.? A few years later I was rebuilding it again.?
The thrust washer had broken into parts.? My solution was
to buy a new mainshaft (that is a story in itself) along
with some other parts.? 25 years later that part is still
soldering on.? (I had to rebuild again for layshaft issues
but that's unrelated)<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">I would be very reluctant to reuse that
mainshaft.? The raised ridge is not what worries me it is
the fact that the edge of the grove is not square and the
thrust applied by the helical gears will point load the
split collars and they will fail again.? The TR6
transmission si probably different but the basic design is
similar and the force loading is also similar.? Helical
gears are sued to keep tooth noise down but the fact that
they are wound in a helical manner around the axis means
the forces applied to the gears is at an angle to that
axis.? Part of that force is used to rotate the shaft but
the other is applied to the bearings at either end of the
transmission meaning the split collars in your case will
take up that force as an interface between the shaft and
the bearing inner race.? I don't have enough experience to
say whether the transmission will last a week, month, year
or 10 years with that shaft but I would have much more
confidence in a new, quality shaft.<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr"> <br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">Dave <br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr"><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr"><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr"> <br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr"> <br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">-----Original Message-----<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">From: aribert neumann <<a
href="mailto:aribertn@gmail.com"; rel="nofollow"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">aribertn@gmail.com</a>><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">To: <a href="mailto:triumphs@autox.team.net";
rel="nofollow" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">triumphs@autox.team.net</a><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">Sent: Sun, Mar 19, 2023 6:46 pm<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">Subject: [TR] Calling anyone with
transmission rebuilding experience - second attempt, part
1<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr"><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">I tried to send this message yesterday but it
has not appeared yet so I am resending it - guessing that
I may have had too many (or too large of) images.? ?I'll
splint it into two messages and reduce the image file
sizes - hopefully this message will go thru.<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">I'll start off with a quick comment - as I
started to type the e-mail address, up popped suggestions
that started with TR.? ?Third on the list was "TR3driver"
- the late Randall (Young, I think).? ?I sincerely hope
someone will "fill his shoes" with respect to my
questions.? ?I'm not on any other Triumph related groups -
you are all I've got for input.<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">I am in the process of reassembling (or
trying to) my GT6 transmission - please don't tune out,
conceptually the trans is similar to the big Triumphs.?
?On dismantling my trans, I observed that the split
collars had spun on the main shaft, wearing a relief in
the collars and raising an edge on the main shaft.? What
keeps the collars from rotating when 1st gear is in
motion?? I am focused on preventing this problem in the
future.? When I rotate first gear on the shaft, the split
washers rotate with the shaft.? I am wondering if the
tolerance stack up of the 2nd & 3rd gear bushings,
spacers, etc (from the circlip to the split collars) was
too large allowing first gear to push the split collars
forward on the shaft.? What else could cause this
rotation/wear???<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">Images as follows - old mainshaft with raised
edge from the spinning split washers, good & worn
split washers, good split washers nested in the first gear
pocket.? ? Off in digest mode preparing part 2 of this
message.<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr"><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr"><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">** <a href="mailto:triumphs@autox.team.net";
rel="nofollow" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">triumphs@autox.team.net</a>
**<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr"><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">Donate: <a
href="http://www.team.net/donate.html"; rel="nofollow"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">http://www.team.net/donate.html</a><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">Archive:
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="http://www.team.net/pipermail/triumphs";>http://www.team.net/pipermail/triumphs</a>?
<a
href="http://www.team.net/archive"; rel="nofollow"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">http://www.team.net/archive</a><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr"><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">Unsubscribe/Manage: <a
href="http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/triumphs/dave1massey@cs.com";
rel="nofollow" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/triumphs/dave1massey@cs.com</a><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">-------------- next part --------------<br>
</div>
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rel="nofollow" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
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</div>
<div dir="ltr"><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">------------------------------<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr"><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">Message: 4<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2023 13:30:54 +0000 (UTC)<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">From: DAVID MASSEY <<a
href="mailto:dave1massey@cs.com"; rel="nofollow"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">dave1massey@cs.com</a>><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">To: <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:aribertn@gmail.com";>"aribertn@gmail.com"</a> <<a
href="mailto:aribertn@gmail.com"; rel="nofollow"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">aribertn@gmail.com</a>>,<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">Â Â Â <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:triumphs@autox.team.net";>"triumphs@autox.team.net"</a> <<a
href="mailto:triumphs@autox.team.net"; rel="nofollow"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">triumphs@autox.team.net</a>><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">Subject: Re: [TR] Calling anyone with
transmission rebuilding<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">Â Â Â experience - 2nd attempt, part2<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">Message-ID: <<a
href="mailto:583075131.2506945.1679319054463@mail.yahoo.com";
rel="nofollow" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">583075131.2506945.1679319054463@mail.yahoo.com</a>><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr"><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr"> That looks like the heat treated, hardened?
surface is starting to break up.? That is what happened to
my layshaft.? Another reason to abandon that mainshaft.?
If you have an alternate bearing combination that doesn't
relay on that surface for the bearing rollers then the
hardened surface is no longer critical.? But this is above
my pay grade.<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr"><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">BTW, I misinterpreted one of your previous
photos.? The split washers transfer the lateral forces
from the synchro hub to the mainshaft but the end result
is the same, with a compromised groove surface like that
the split collars will fail prematurely.?? If you open the
grove to clean up the shoulder will the split washers stay
in place?? If they fall out you have serious problems.?
Even if they stay in place will it increase backlash?? Can
you get oversized split collars?? Make shims?? All this is
above my pay grade.<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr"> <br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">Dave <br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr"><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr"><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr"> <br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr"> <br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">-----Original Message-----<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">From: aribert neumann <<a
href="mailto:aribertn@gmail.com"; rel="nofollow"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">aribertn@gmail.com</a>><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">To: <a href="mailto:triumphs@autox.team.net";
rel="nofollow" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">triumphs@autox.team.net</a><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">Sent: Sun, Mar 19, 2023 6:52 pm<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">Subject: [TR] Calling anyone with
transmission rebuilding experience - 2nd attempt, part2<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr"><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">Next question - my (new) replacement main
shaft is oversize in a couple of places.? ?The diameter
under the 2nd & 3rd gear bushings (I have opened up
the bushings to only have a light interference fit).?
Worst is the diameter under the rear bearing.? I can
install the bearing but I have to hammer it ***hard*** to
get it to fit on the shaft - can't be good for the bearing
- guessing I might change the inner race diameter a
miniscule amount.? I'm thinking of sending this main shaft
back to Spitbits and reusing my old main shaft.? I have
cleaned up the groove for the split collars on my lathe.?
The other damage on the shaft is on the nose where the
cage bearing rides in the input shaft - this damage is
only on one side of the shaft and only on half of the
bearing surface (fore/aft).? I am already going to replace
the cage bearing with a bearing bronze bushing since the
surface inside the input shaft pocket is showing wear
also.? The max amount of surface missing on the nose of
the old m<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr"> ain shaft is 0.003 in diameter.? ?Images:?
exploded view from Bentley? manual, nose of the old, worn
mainshaft<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr"><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">Your thoughts and suggestions please - off in
digest mode awaiting your responses.? Trying to formulate
a new plan of attack for Monday morning.<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr"><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">** <a href="mailto:triumphs@autox.team.net";
rel="nofollow" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">triumphs@autox.team.net</a>
**<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr"><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">Donate: <a
href="http://www.team.net/donate.html"; rel="nofollow"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">http://www.team.net/donate.html</a><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">Archive:
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="http://www.team.net/pipermail/triumphs";>http://www.team.net/pipermail/triumphs</a>?
<a
href="http://www.team.net/archive"; rel="nofollow"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">http://www.team.net/archive</a><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr"><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">Unsubscribe/Manage: <a
href="http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/triumphs/dave1massey@cs.com";
rel="nofollow" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/triumphs/dave1massey@cs.com</a><br>
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<div dir="ltr"><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">------------------------------<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr"><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">Subject: Digest Footer<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr"><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">_______________________________________________<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr"><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">Triumphs mailing list<br>
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rel="nofollow" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">Triumphs@autox.team.net</a><br>
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<div dir="ltr"><a
href="http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/triumphs";
rel="nofollow" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/triumphs</a><br>
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</div>
<div dir="ltr">------------------------------<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr"><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">End of Triumphs Digest, Vol 16, Issue 39<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">****************************************<br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<fieldset class="moz-mime-attachment-header"></fieldset>
<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">** <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="mailto:triumphs@autox.team.net";>triumphs@autox.team.net</a> **
Archive: <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="http://www.team.net/pipermail/triumphs";>http://www.team.net/pipermail/triumphs</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="http://www.team.net/archive";>http://www.team.net/archive</a>
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
Porter Custom Bicycles 2909 Arno St. NE Albuquerque, NM. 87107 ph 505-352-1378
My World go here: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="http://WWW.PORTERBIKES.COM/";>WWW.PORTERBIKES.COM/</a></pre>
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