Stu-
I've dealt with Pete on several occasions, and many times in person, and
have had no problems with him whatsoever. I find him to be pretty honest in
his dealings, and a pretty nice guy to boot.
As to "cutting by code" it is simple. If the key won't fit the cutter, then
it can't be cut by code, despite all honest efforts to do so. There are many
variations of keys, and you can't cut them all with the same machine.
Cutting by code is usually used when there is no available sample, and you
have to work with a blank and a cutter only, so be happy you had a sample to
work from in the first place. "Several generations down" in a key copy also
is not important, usually. I have often taken a just about worn out key and
had it duplicated with no problem, other than a little wire wheeling
needed-(this deburrs and "wears" the key a little in tight cylinders, as
when new) which is why the machines come with a wire wheel on the opposite
end of the shaft that runs the cutter. On a Triumph key, there are three cut
depths- high(no cut) mid(halfway cut) and low(full depth cut) These can be
"read" by the cutting machine, and will translate well. Remember- your
cylinder has the same amount of wear as your key- and tolerances are not
that tight in a lock cylinder in a car.
I guess my point is this: Pete got your key cut. It does work. Whether cut
by hand or machine is immaterial.
Scott
----- Original Message -----
From: <StuCohen@aol.com>
To: <vtr@autox.team.net>; <shop-talk@autox.team.net>
Sent: Friday, July 27, 2001 1:23 PM
Subject: Beware of Pete Groh's British car keys
> I've recently had some real problems dealing with Pete
> Groh, the guy in Maryland who sells and cuts old
> British car keys, and I'm wondering if anybody else has run into a similar
problem.
>
> I bought a British Leyland key blank for my Spitfire
> from him at British Car Day in Bowie, MD last month. I
> took it to several locksmiths who refused to cut it because it was a steel
key. Pete e-mailed me that his local hardware store would cut a steel
blank, or he
> could cut it by code if I had the numbers available. I e-mailed him the
numbers from my production record
> trace, and he said those would work. I was thrilled at
> the prospect of having an original British Leyland key
> cut to original spec, since the only key that came with the Spitfire when
I bought it was an old copy...how many
> generations down I have no idea.
>
> So I mailed him the steel blank, along with a copy of
> my copy to make sure that the hand cut matched what I already had (just in
case someone had replaced the ignition somewhere in the car's history), and
a note (as well as an e-mail) saying not use my copy for
> duplication, since it was already several generations down, and asking him
to contact me if there was a
> problem. If for some reason the codes didn't match, I would send him my
better original copy for copying at
> the hardware store.
>
> A few days later the keys came back in the mail, and
> the key he cut fit fine. So I e-mailed him again asking him to cut me one
more. He e-mailed me back
> asking me to send that copy I sent the previous time so
> he could take it down to the hardware store again and have another copy
made. I was puzzled, since he
> advertises cutting keys by code and I specifically said
> in the note and e-mail not to use that copy I sent for making another copy
at the hardware store, so I asked him what happened. He e-mailed me saying
that the
> British Leyland blanks don't fit his key cutter so he
> had to take it to the hardware store for copying.
>
> There were nearly two dozen e-mails between us. Pete
> uses this bizarre e-mail short-hand in which he writes in incomplete
sentences, partial words, wrong conjugations, bad mispellings and references
back to things that he never said in the first place. So it took me several
e-mails before I could get an intelligible answer to my questions about what
type of
> key I had bought, and whether he could cut it. But
> after all of these e-mails it was clear to him I had a British Leyland key
and he wanted my code numbers to cut
> it. So I don't know why he didn't tell me he couldn't
> cut the key by hand using the numbers in the first
> place, and why he says he cuts keys by code if he knows full well that the
British Leyland keys (and who knows
> how many other types he sells) don't fit in his cutter.
>
> Now he won't return any of my e-mails asking why he
> didn't tell me that he couldn't cut that key by hand
> early on and why he didn't pay any attention to my note and e-mail saying
not to use that old copy for making a copy down at the hardware store.
>
> I feel like I've been scammed. He clearly advertises
> on his webite and his paper literature that he CUTS KEYS BY CODE, and
makes no mention of exceptions. Has
> anyone else had a similar experience, i.e. having
> trouble communicating with him in standard written
> English, and finding him misleading, evasive or just
> plain negligent in his business practices. If you have
> a key from him, are you sure you have what you paid
> for? And if you're planning on doing business with
> him, be forewarned about these problems.
>
> I'd appreciate any help with this.
///
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