Subject: [6pack] TR5 and TR250

From: John Cyganowski <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2013 05:27:17 -0800 (PST)

In my humble opinion, the emmissions thing is a fable that was published a
long time ago and has become accepted fact.  First, in 1967 there was no EPA.
EPA was begun in 1970 under President Nixon. Car emmisson standards (the
little that they had) came under the Department of Health Education and
Welfare (HEW). Oh for the days when government was not so bloated.
 
I think the PI system needed altitude compensation in the US. This would have
cost more. But I don't think the PI system could not be tuned. That is what
fuel injection is all about - delivering the right amount of fuel at the right
time.
 
The issue was sales.  McWilliam nixed anything he thought would be a
distraction to sales. The home market was small. The home market had troubles
with the PI system, but the number of cars produced for that market was small,
so the problems were managable. The North American Market by comparison was
huge. McWilliams just did not want those issues. He was right.
 
John Cyg.

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From: Jim Jones <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2013 12:15:54 -0800 (PST)

True that. MY dad had a 1970 Sedan de Ville with the Caddy 472 V8. I never
knew what its numbers were, but that was a torque beast. Hard to imagine the
emissions that car produced.

Jim Jones

Jones Beltone Hearing and Audiology

Jefferson City, MO

--- On Wed, 1/16/13, Ashford Little <[email-masked]> wrote:

From: Ashford Little <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [6pack] TR5 and TR250
To: "Sally or Dick Taylor" <[email-masked]>
Cc: "John Cyganowski" <[email-masked]>, "[email-masked]"
<[email-masked]>
Date: Wednesday, January 16, 2013, 1:41 PM

Yeah, hard to imagine a 440 6-Pack would pass even a gas station... not to
mention almost any other big block motor in the US.

My first "car" was actually a yacht of the land variety.  1971 Mercury
Marquis.  Oh yeah, I forgot to mention my father ordered it with the 429ci
Mach One motor.  Pass an emissions test.  Yeah right.

Ashford Little
[email-masked]

On Jan 16, 2013, at 2:37 PM, Sally or Dick Taylor <[email-masked]>
wrote:

> John makes a good point. In 1968 the US were selling muscle cars with big
> cams, multi carbs and high compression. These faced no government
restrictions
> until later on.
>
>
>
>> ________________________________
>> From: John Cyganowski
> <[email-masked]>
>> To: [email-masked]
>> Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2013
> 5:27 AM
>> Subject: [6pack] TR5 and TR250
>>
>> In my humble opinion, the
> emmissions thing is a fable that was published a
>> long time ago and has become
> accepted fact.  First, in 1967 there was no EPA.
>> EPA was begun in 1970 under
> President Nixon. Car emmisson standards (the
>> fuel injection is all about -
> delivering the right amount of fuel at the right
>> time.
>>
>> The issue was
> sales.  McWilliam nixed anything he thought would be a
>> distraction to sales.
> The home market was small. The home market had troubles
>> with the PI system,
> but the number of cars produced for that market was small,
>> so the problems
> were managable. The North American Market by comparison was
>> huge. McWilliams
> just did not want those issues. He was right.
>>
>> John Cyg.
>>
>> Donate:
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---

From: Jim Jones <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2013 14:10:54 -0800 (PST)

I agree with John, and believe that Bruce McWilliams was correct in his
decision. The Brits DID have trouble with the early PI cars. The early high
strung cams caused a lopey idle and the fuel metering units had to be rebuilt
(expensively) when they failed. Far more of an ordeal compared to rebuilding a
carb. It's likely that by the time the PI system was perfected, if that was
possible, the cost may have put those cars into a price class where they could
not compete well. Servicing would have been an issue for most of the BL
dealers' service departments. Chevy dealers routinely removed the Rochester
fuel injection units from Corvettes at their owners' request because they were
a pain to keep working.

The other issue is that the North American market needed the six cylinder
FAST. Remember the TR250 was only marketed for what? 16 months? Waiting
another year for a better PI system before rolling out the car could well have
cost BL several dealers at a time when many were on the brink of taking down
their Triumph signs. And remember that these cars, particularly the TR6,
succeeded brilliantly. They kept the Triumph brand in the game.

Face it. The basic design of these cars dated back to the mid-sixties, if not
earlier. Trying to make it into a modern car would have required starting all
over from the ground up, something that was not going to happen with the TR7
under development.

Jim Jones

Jefferson City, MO

--- On Wed, 1/16/13, John Cyganowski <[email-masked]> wrote:

From: John Cyganowski <[email-masked]>
Subject: [6pack] TR5 and TR250
To: [email-masked]
Date: Wednesday, January 16, 2013, 7:27 AM

I think the PI system needed altitude compensation in the US. This would have
cost more. But I don't think the PI system could not be tuned. That is what
fuel injection is all about - delivering the right amount of fuel at the
right
time.

with the PI system, but the number of cars produced for that market was
small,

John Cyg.

[email-masked]

[email-masked]