Subject: [6pack] Bad brake master cylinders

From: Richard Lindsay via 6pack <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2019 10:36:28 -0500

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Hello,
   A couple of you (who's names I can't remember, sorry) wrote about
receiving defective brake master cylinders from Moss. I'm in the same boat.
There's a chance that I got BOTH of these MCs from VickyBrit but I doubt
it. Anyway...
   The first MC worked fine on the front brake circuit but the rear circuit
was sealed! No fluid movement at all. The second MC must be leaking
internally. It will not build pressure front OR rear, but fluid does flow.
   After multiple bleeding, the pedal will build up a little resistance
then goes to the floor. Let set for 2-3 minutes and the pedal goes to the
floor with no resistance at all.
   Do these symptoms sound familiar to you? And who sells a good MC for a
'75 TR6? Thanks.

Rick

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<div dir=3D"auto">Hello,<div dir=3D"auto">=C2=A0 =C2=A0A couple of you (who=
&#39;s names I can&#39;t remember, sorry) wrote about receiving defective b=
rake master cylinders from Moss. I&#39;m in the same boat. There&#39;s a ch=
ance that I got BOTH of these MCs from VickyBrit but I doubt it. Anyway...<=
/div><div dir=3D"auto">=C2=A0 =C2=A0The first MC worked fine on the front b=
rake circuit but the rear circuit was sealed! No fluid movement at all. The=
 second MC must be leaking internally. It will not build pressure front OR =
rear, but fluid does flow.</div><div dir=3D"auto">=C2=A0 =C2=A0After multip=
le bleeding, the pedal will build up a little resistance then goes to the f=
loor. Let set for 2-3 minutes and the pedal goes to the floor with no resis=
tance at all.</div><div dir=3D"auto">=C2=A0 =C2=A0Do these symptoms sound f=
amiliar=C2=A0to you? And who sells a good MC for a &#39;75 TR6? Thanks.</di=
v><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">Rick</div></div>

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_______________________________________________
Archive: http://www.team.net/archive

[email-masked]
http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/6pack

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From: im sloane via 6pack <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 21 Sep 2019 02:58:28 +0000

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My experience with brake components is that Moss will sell OEM TRW (they bo=
ught Gerling) items and also offer a cheaper aftermarket (GOLD) item. The R=
oadster Factory will only sell TRW (Gerling) items. I wouldn't buy anything=
 from J.C. VictoriaBrit Whitney, especially not brake related.

Sorry, no experience with the symptoms you described.

Sloane
69 Six
72 Spit
________________________________
From: 6pack <[email-masked]> on behalf of Richard Lindsay via=
 6pack <[email-masked]>
Sent: Friday, September 20, 2019 3:36 PM
To: TR6 <[email-masked]>
Subject: [6pack] Bad brake master cylinders

Hello,
   A couple of you (who's names I can't remember, sorry) wrote about receiv=
ing defective brake master cylinders from Moss. I'm in the same boat. There=
's a chance that I got BOTH of these MCs from VickyBrit but I doubt it. Any=
way...
   The first MC worked fine on the front brake circuit but the rear circuit=
 was sealed! No fluid movement at all. The second MC must be leaking intern=
ally. It will not build pressure front OR rear, but fluid does flow.
   After multiple bleeding, the pedal will build up a little resistance the=
n goes to the floor. Let set for 2-3 minutes and the pedal goes to the floo=
r with no resistance at all.

--_000_BN6PR18MB1140FF94347248C392B980B58E8B0BN6PR18MB1140namp_
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<html>
<head>
<meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-=
1">
<style type=3D"text/css" style=3D"display:none;"> P {margin-top:0;margin-bo=
ttom:0;} </style>
</head>
<body dir=3D"ltr">
<div id=3D"appendonsend" style=3D"font-family: Calibri, Helvetica, sans-ser=
if; font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
</div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12pt; col=
or:rgb(0,0,0)">
My experience with brake components is that Moss will sell OEM TRW (they bo=
ught Gerling) items and also offer a cheaper aftermarket (GOLD) item. The R=
oadster Factory will only sell TRW (Gerling) items. I wouldn't buy anything=
 from J.C. VictoriaBrit Whitney,
 especially not brake related.&nbsp;</div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12pt; col=
or:rgb(0,0,0)">
<br>
</div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12pt; col=
or:rgb(0,0,0)">
Sorry, no experience with the symptoms you described.&nbsp;</div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12pt; col=
or:rgb(0,0,0)">
<br>
</div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12pt; col=
or:rgb(0,0,0)">
Sloane&nbsp;&nbsp;</div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12pt; col=
or:rgb(0,0,0)">
69 Six</div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12pt; col=
or:rgb(0,0,0)">
72 Spit</div>
<hr tabindex=3D"-1" style=3D"display:inline-block; width:98%">
<div id=3D"divRplyFwdMsg" dir=3D"ltr"><font face=3D"Calibri, sans-serif" co=
lor=3D"#000000" style=3D"font-size:11pt"><b>From:</b> 6pack &lt;6pack-bounc=
[email-masked]&gt; on behalf of Richard Lindsay via 6pack &lt;6pack@auto=
x.team.net&gt;<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, September 20, 2019 3:36 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> TR6 &lt;[email-masked]&gt;<br>
<b>Subject:</b> [6pack] Bad brake master cylinders</font>
<div>&nbsp;</div>
</div>
<div>
<div dir=3D"auto">Hello,
<div dir=3D"auto">&nbsp; &nbsp;A couple of you (who's names I can't remembe=
r, sorry) wrote about receiving defective brake master cylinders from Moss.=
 I'm in the same boat. There's a chance that I got BOTH of these MCs from V=
ickyBrit but I doubt it. Anyway...</div>
<div dir=3D"auto">&nbsp; &nbsp;The first MC worked fine on the front brake =
circuit but the rear circuit was sealed! No fluid movement at all. The seco=
nd MC must be leaking internally. It will not build pressure front OR rear,=
 but fluid does flow.</div>
<div dir=3D"auto">&nbsp; &nbsp;After multiple bleeding, the pedal will buil=
d up a little resistance then goes to the floor. Let set for 2-3 minutes an=
d the pedal goes to the floor with no resistance at all.</div>
<div dir=3D"auto">&nbsp;</div>
</div>
</div>
</body>
</html>

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[email-masked]

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From: John Cyganowski via 6pack <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 21 Sep 2019 22:08:16 +0000 (UTC)

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There are a number of master cylinders on the market. TRW/Gurling are the O=
EM choice. They cost more but usually the quality is better. There are afte=
rmarket master cylinders usually made in China or India. These can work but=
 out of the box failures have been reported. These are usually lower cost. =
But there is a risk associated with them. I think (no evidence) that If you=
 put one in and it works then it is no worse than any other. =C2=A0 Moss se=
lls those gold grade cylinders. These are at a premium price and are suppos=
ed to be higher quality. However, when the product was new they had some ou=
t of the box failures. I have not heard of anymore OOB failures with the go=
ld grade. Moss is a large company and if there was an issue, I am sure they=
 would have corrected it.=C2=A0

The difficulty in all of this is I am not aware of the circumstances of the=
se failures or even if they were real failures due to a quality issue rathe=
r than mis-use or poor installation by the owner.=C2=A0
It is important to Bench Bleed these assemblies. See YouTube or your servic=
e manual or the Haynes book (IMHO the Chilton books are worthless - sorry).=
 Bench bleeding can be done in the car. See www.bullfire.net
Then there is the fluid. DOT 3 and DOT 4 cause the elastomers to swell. Eve=
ntually the elastomers will fail but frequent use of the car seems to exten=
d the life of the seals. I think changing out the fluid every 2 years or so=
 is a good thing / helps avoid water in your brake lines. DOT 5 is controve=
rsial because the manufacturers include box inserts that say if you use DOT=
 5 it voids their warranty. They don=E2=80=99t say that DOT 5 is incompatib=
le. They just won=E2=80=99t support it. I will use DOT 5 because my car is =
newly restored and painted and I don=E2=80=99t want paint damage if the cyl=
inder leaks. YMMV.=C2=A0
Good luck and I hope this was useful.=C2=A0
John Cyg70 DamsonCC52927LO=C2=A0

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<html><head></head><body><div class=3D"yahoo-style-wrap" style=3D"font-fami=
ly:Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;font-size:16px;"><span styl=
e=3D"font-family: &quot;Helvetica Neue&quot;, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;=
 font-size: 16px;">There are a number of master cylinders on the market. TR=
W/Gurling are the OEM choice. They cost more but usually the quality is bet=
ter. There are aftermarket master cylinders usually made in China or India.=
 These can work but out of the box failures have been reported. These are u=
sually lower cost. But there is a risk associated with them. I think (no ev=
idence) that If you put one in and it works then it is no worse than any ot=
her. &nbsp; Moss sells those gold grade cylinders. These are at a premium p=
rice and are supposed to be higher quality. However, when the product was n=
ew they had some out of the box failures. I have not heard of anymore OOB f=
ailures with the gold grade. Moss is a large company and if there was an is=
sue, I am sure they would have corrected it.&nbsp;</span><br><div><span sty=
le=3D"font-family: &quot;Helvetica Neue&quot;, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif=
; font-size: 16px;"><br></span></div><div><span style=3D"font-family: &quot=
;Helvetica Neue&quot;, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 16px;">The =
difficulty in all of this is I am not aware of the circumstances of these f=
ailures or even if they were real failures due to a quality issue rather th=
an mis-use or poor installation by the owner.&nbsp;</span></div><div><span =
style=3D"font-family: &quot;Helvetica Neue&quot;, Helvetica, Arial, sans-se=
rif; font-size: 16px;"><br></span></div><div><span style=3D"font-family: &q=
uot;Helvetica Neue&quot;, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 16px;">I=
t is important to Bench Bleed these assemblies. See YouTube or your service=
 manual or the Haynes book (IMHO the Chilton books are worthless - sorry). =
Bench bleeding can be done in the car. See www.bullfire.net</span></div><di=
v><span style=3D"font-family: &quot;Helvetica Neue&quot;, Helvetica, Arial,=
 sans-serif; font-size: 16px;"><br></span></div><div><span style=3D"font-fa=
mily: &quot;Helvetica Neue&quot;, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: =
16px;">Then there is the fluid. DOT 3 and DOT 4 cause the elastomers to swe=
ll. Eventually the elastomers will fail but frequent use of the car seems t=
o extend the life of the seals. I think changing out the fluid every 2 year=
s or so is a good thing / helps avoid water in your brake lines. DOT 5 is c=
ontroversial because the manufacturers include box inserts that say if you =
use DOT 5 it voids their warranty. They don=E2=80=99t say that DOT 5 is inc=
ompatible. They just won=E2=80=99t support it. I will use DOT 5 because my =
car is newly restored and painted and I don=E2=80=99t want paint damage if =
the cylinder leaks. YMMV.&nbsp;</span></div><div><span style=3D"font-family=
: &quot;Helvetica Neue&quot;, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 16px=
;"><br></span></div><div><span style=3D"font-family: &quot;Helvetica Neue&q=
uot;, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 16px;">Good luck and I hope =
this was useful.&nbsp;</span></div><div><span style=3D"font-family: &quot;H=
elvetica Neue&quot;, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 16px;"><br></=
span></div><div><span style=3D"font-family: &quot;Helvetica Neue&quot;, Hel=
vetica, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 16px;">John Cyg</span></div><div><spa=
n style=3D"font-family: &quot;Helvetica Neue&quot;, Helvetica, Arial, sans-=
serif; font-size: 16px;">70 Damson</span></div><div><span style=3D"font-fam=
ily: &quot;Helvetica Neue&quot;, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 1=
6px;">CC52927LO&nbsp;</span></div><div><span style=3D"font-family: &quot;He=
lvetica Neue&quot;, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 16px;"><br></s=
pan></div><div><span style=3D"font-family: &quot;Helvetica Neue&quot;, Helv=
etica, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 16px;"><br></span></div></div></body><=
/html>
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[email-masked]

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From: dave--- via 6pack <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 21 Sep 2019 16:06:53 -0700 GNy51+11QboIdPt0+GeTXaCQoPLfd4txsPBH4ckGZEtl1B+sD7RJmdXA3lRHyGXciSWdIZHlUW0yeec7a4ljppL5/eWHlZqvIQo=

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<html><body><span style=3D"font-family:Verdana; color:#000; font-size:10pt;=
"><div>the reason that manufacturers say that dot 5 voids the warranty, acc=
ording to a source of mine at Moss, has to do with legal liability.&nbsp; i=
f you mix dot 3/4 and dot 5, the results are not good.&nbsp; by stating thi=
s warranty void, Moss, and other companies are trying to stay out of court.=
&nbsp; it has nothing to with compatibility or some property of Dot 5 that =
causes an issue.&nbsp;&nbsp;</div><div><br></div><div><br></div>=0A<blockqu=
ote id=3D"replyBlockquote" webmail=3D"1" style=3D"border-left: 2px solid bl=
ue; margin-left: 8px; padding-left: 8px; font-size:10pt; color:black; font-=
family:verdana;">=0A<div id=3D"wmQuoteWrapper">=0A-------- Original Message=
 --------<br>=0ASubject: Re: [6pack] Bad brake master cylinders<br>=0AFrom:=
 John Cyganowski via 6pack &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">6pac=
[email-masked]</a>&gt;<br>=0ADate: Sat, September 21, 2019 5:08 pm<br>=0A=
To: TR6 &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a=
>&gt;<br>=0A<br>=0A<div class=3D"yahoo-style-wrap" style=3D"font-family:Hel=
vetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;font-size:16px;"><span style=3D"f=
ont-family: &quot;Helvetica Neue&quot;, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif; font-=
size: 16px;">There are a number of master cylinders on the market. TRW/Gurl=
ing are the OEM choice. They cost more but usually the quality is better. T=
here are aftermarket master cylinders usually made in China or India. These=
 can work but out of the box failures have been reported. These are usually=
 lower cost. But there is a risk associated with them. I think (no evidence=
) that If you put one in and it works then it is no worse than any other. &=
nbsp; Moss sells those gold grade cylinders. These are at a premium price a=
nd are supposed to be higher quality. However, when the product was new the=
y had some out of the box failures. I have not heard of anymore OOB failure=
s with the gold grade. Moss is a large company and if there was an issue, I=
 am sure they would have corrected it.&nbsp;</span><br><div><span style=3D"=
font-family: &quot;Helvetica Neue&quot;, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif; font=
-size: 16px;"><br></span></div><div><span style=3D"font-family: &quot;Helve=
tica Neue&quot;, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 16px;">The diffic=
ulty in all of this is I am not aware of the circumstances of these failure=
s or even if they were real failures due to a quality issue rather than mis=
-use or poor installation by the owner.&nbsp;</span></div><div><span style=
=3D"font-family: &quot;Helvetica Neue&quot;, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif; =
font-size: 16px;"><br></span></div><div><span style=3D"font-family: &quot;H=
elvetica Neue&quot;, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 16px;">It is =
important to Bench Bleed these assemblies. See YouTube or your service manu=
al or the Haynes book (IMHO the Chilton books are worthless - sorry). Bench=
 bleeding can be done in the car. See <a href=3D"http://www.bullfire.net">w=
ww.bullfire.net</a></span></div><div><span style=3D"font-family: &quot;Helv=
etica Neue&quot;, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 16px;"><br></spa=
n></div><div><span style=3D"font-family: &quot;Helvetica Neue&quot;, Helvet=
ica, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 16px;">Then there is the fluid. DOT 3 an=
d DOT 4 cause the elastomers to swell. Eventually the elastomers will fail =
but frequent use of the car seems to extend the life of the seals. I think =
changing out the fluid every 2 years or so is a good thing / helps avoid wa=
ter in your brake lines. DOT 5 is controversial because the manufacturers i=
nclude box inserts that say if you use DOT 5 it voids their warranty. They =
don=E2=80=99t say that DOT 5 is incompatible. They just won=E2=80=99t suppo=
rt it. I will use DOT 5 because my car is newly restored and painted and I =
don=E2=80=99t want paint damage if the cylinder leaks. YMMV.&nbsp;</span></=
div><div><span style=3D"font-family: &quot;Helvetica Neue&quot;, Helvetica,=
 Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 16px;"><br></span></div><div><span style=3D"=
font-family: &quot;Helvetica Neue&quot;, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif; font=
-size: 16px;">Good luck and I hope this was useful.&nbsp;</span></div><div>=
<span style=3D"font-family: &quot;Helvetica Neue&quot;, Helvetica, Arial, s=
ans-serif; font-size: 16px;"><br></span></div><div><span style=3D"font-fami=
ly: &quot;Helvetica Neue&quot;, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 16=
px;">John Cyg</span></div><div><span style=3D"font-family: &quot;Helvetica =
Neue&quot;, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 16px;">70 Damson</span=
></div><div><span style=3D"font-family: &quot;Helvetica Neue&quot;, Helveti=
ca, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 16px;">CC52927LO&nbsp;</span></div><div><=
span style=3D"font-family: &quot;Helvetica Neue&quot;, Helvetica, Arial, sa=
ns-serif; font-size: 16px;"><br></span></div><div><span style=3D"font-famil=
y: &quot;Helvetica Neue&quot;, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 16p=
x;"><br></span></div></div><hr>____________________________________________=
___<br>=0ASupport <a href=3D"http://Team.Net">Team.Net</a> <a href=3D"http:=
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sted annual donation  $12.96<br>=0AArchive: <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/=
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w.team.net/forums">http://www.team.net/forums</a><br>=0A<br>=0A<a href=3D"m=
ailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a><br>=0A<a href=3D"http:=
//autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/6pack">http://autox.team.net/mailman/list=
info/6pack</a><br>=0A<br>=0AUnsubscribe/Manage: http:<a href=3D"mailto://au=
tox.team.net/mailman/options/6pack/[email-masked]">//autox.team.net/mailm=
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[email-masked]

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