Subject: [6pack] Advancing or retarding the stock camshaft

From: Robert Perry via 6pack <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 30 Dec 2019 04:30:23 -0600 (GMT-06:00)

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10/50 50/10 becomes 7.86/47.86 47.86/7.86

18/58 58/18 becomes 15.86/55.86 55.86/15.86<br><br>35/65 65/35 becomes 32.86/62.86 62.86/32.86<br><br>&nbsp;and if one retards the camshaft

10/50 50/10 becomes 12.14/52.14 52.14/12.14

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From: Robert Perry via 6pack <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 30 Dec 2019 09:42:01 -0600 (GMT-06:00)

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<html><head><style type=3D"text/css"><!-- DIV {margin:0px;} --></style></he=
ad><body><div style=3D"font-size: 13px;color: rgb(0, 0, 0);font-family: ari=
al, sans-serif;"><div>Thanks Bob for the correction and information.</div><=
div><br></div><div>Chart corrected below;</div><div><br></div><div>The cams=
haft tooth degree is 8.57 (360 /42 teeth) with half tooth being 4.28 degree=
s. So that would be <br><pre class=3D"msgPlainWrap">2.14 crankshaft degrees=
.  Therefore Retarding  the camshaft a half tooth in crankshaft degrees <br=
>would be the following;
<br>RETARDING camshaft<br>
10/50 50/10 becomes 7.86/47.86 47.86/7.86

18/58 58/18 becomes 15.86/55.86 55.86/15.86<br><br>35/65 65/35 becomes 32.8=
6/62.86 62.86/32.86<br><br>&nbsp;and if one ADVANCES the camshaft

18/58 58/18 becomes 20.14/60.14 60.14/20.14 <br><br>35/65 65/35 becomes 37.=
14/62.86 62.86/37.14<br><br>Regards,<br><br>Robert<br></pre><br><br><br></d=
iv><br><blockquote style=3D"padding-left: 5px; margin-left: 0px; border-lef=
t: #0000ff 2px solid; font-weight: normal; font-style: normal; text-decorat=
ion: none; font-size: 10pt; font-family: arial,sans-serif; color: black;">-=
----Original Message-----
<br>From: Robert Lang <[email-masked]>
<br>Sent: Dec 30, 2019 7:46 AM
<br>To: TR6 &lt;[email-masked]&gt;, Robert Perry <[email-masked]=
et>
<br>Subject: Re: [6pack] Advancing or retarding the stock camshaft

<br><br><div class=3D"ydp961f228fyahoo-style-wrap" style=3D"font-family: He=
lvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px;"><div></div>
        <div dir=3D"ltr" data-setdir=3D"false">Hi,</div><div dir=3D"ltr" da=
ta-setdir=3D"false"><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr" data-setdir=3D"false">I can =
say with authority that advancing the cam will help a bit, but it won't res=
ult in gobs of power. Note that you must have a proper cam gear to do this,=
 some on the market are not drilled properly limiting the amount of "change=
" you can make. Adjustable cam gears give you more adjustability and hence =
allowing you to optimize the cam on the dyno. BUT accessing the gear on the=
 dyno is pretty hard to do, so we tend to stick with what has worked in the=
 past with various cams. All that said, you will likely find a few torques =
if you advance the cam up to about 4 degrees. Retarding the cam does NOTHIN=
G GOOD. Regarding tuning,&nbsp; you want torque, not HP. Trust me on that. =
Side story: I had a late TR6 with really low power, the former owner spent =
scads of $$$ trying to get the car to run right. After I verified the basic=
s, I was able to determine that the cam was retarded. A LOT. Intake was ope=
ning ATDC. I fixed that and got over more 30 HP to the wheels. Cam timing d=
oes make a difference!<br></div><div dir=3D"ltr" data-setdir=3D"false"><br>=
</div><div dir=3D"ltr" data-setdir=3D"false">I got around 100 HP to the whe=
els with stock late cam (advanced 4 degrees), header, mild porting and a fr=
ee-flow exhaust. The biggest gain: ditch the crank-driven fan. 8 HP. You co=
uld probably get another one or two by underdriving the alternator, but I'v=
e never done that. This was an SCCA "Street Prepared" car with stock compre=
ssion, pretty much no internal mods and balancing. If you want real power, =
you can only get there with higher compression or boosting. Period.</div><d=
iv dir=3D"ltr" data-setdir=3D"false"><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr" data-setdir=
=3D"false">The 5 main idea is good, but we would also suggest / recommend n=
itriding the crank no matter what. Stock rods work great when properly prep=
ared, but you can increase reliability by going to aftermarket rods that ar=
e lighter. Carillos are e$pen$ive but are also over 110 grams lighter than =
prepared stock rods. There are cheaper alternatives to Carillo, but they co=
me with some risk. But over 100 grams: That's a LOT of both rotational and =
reciprocating mass and that will help for your killer harmonics. Note that =
6300 is only one of them. The key is not staying at the killer RPMs - you n=
eed to not get there or go beyond them.</div><div dir=3D"ltr" data-setdir=
=3D"false"><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr" data-setdir=3D"false">That's enough f=
or now. ;-)<br></div><div dir=3D"ltr" data-setdir=3D"false"><br></div><div =
dir=3D"ltr" data-setdir=3D"false">C ya,</div><div dir=3D"ltr" data-setdir=
=3D"false">Bob Lang</div><div dir=3D"ltr" data-setdir=3D"false"><br></div><=
div dir=3D"ltr" data-setdir=3D"false">p.s. the chart below is backwards - a=
dvancing a cam opens it EARLIER than the published numbers (and retarding o=
pens the valves later. For a stock late TR6 cam, try to open intake at arou=
nd 22 BTDC. But the REAL number to go for is the lobe center, move that tow=
ards TDC to advance the cam. The stock cam lob center is around 110 ATDC, s=
o make that less than 110 and your're good to go.<br></div><div><br></div>
       =20
        </div><div id=3D"ydpca4d004dyahoo_quoted_8709648701" class=3D"ydpca=
4d004dyahoo_quoted">
            <div style=3D"font-family:'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, s=
ans-serif;font-size:13px;color:#26282a;">
               =20
                <div>
                    On Monday, December 30, 2019, 5:30:29 AM EST, Robert Pe=
rry via 6pack &lt;[email-masked]&gt; wrote:
                </div>
                <div><br></div>
                <div><br></div>
                <div><div id=3D"ydpca4d004dyiv4021707000"><div><div style=
=3D"font-size:13px;color:rgb(0, 0, 0);font-family:arial, sans-serif;">Hello=
 All,<br><br>Since there is talk about modifications of their vehicles, has=
 anyone tried to advance or retard the stock camshaft?  I know why bother j=
ust change it.<br><br><pre class=3D"ydpca4d004dyiv4021707000msgPlainWrap">T=
he camshaft tooth degree is 8.57 (360 /42 teeth) with half tooth being 4.28=
 degrees. So that would be <br>2.14 crankshaft degrees.  Therefore advancin=
g the camshaft a half tooth in crankshaft degrees <br>would be the followin=
g;

18/58 58/18 becomes 15.86/55.86 55.86/15.86<br><br>35/65 65/35 becomes 32.8=
6/62.86 62.86/32.86<br><br>&nbsp;and if one retards the camshaft

18/58 58/18 becomes 20.14/60.14 60.14/20.14 <br><br>35/65 65/35 becomes 37.=
14/62.86 62.86/37.14<br><br>Regards,<br><br>Robert<br></pre><br><br><br><di=
v id=3D"ydpca4d004dyiv4021707000elnk_signature_1577701574684" style=3D"font=
-weight:normal;font-style:normal;text-decoration:none;font-size:10pt;font-f=
amily:arial, sans-serif;color:black;"><pre></pre></div><br><br><br><div id=
=3D"ydpca4d004dyiv4021707000elnk_signature_1577701611235" style=3D"font-wei=
ght:normal;font-style:normal;text-decoration:none;font-size:10pt;font-famil=
y:arial, sans-serif;color:black;"><pre></pre></div><br><br><br><div id=3D"y=
dpca4d004dyiv4021707000elnk_signature_1577701681010" style=3D"font-weight:n=
ormal;font-style:normal;text-decoration:none;font-size:10pt;font-family:ari=
al, sans-serif;color:black;"><pre></pre></div><br><br></div></div>
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[email-masked]

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---

From: Robert Perry via 6pack <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 30 Dec 2019 14:44:41 -0600 (GMT-06:00)

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<html><head><style type=3D"text/css"><!-- DIV {margin:0px;} --></style></he=
ad><body><div style=3D"font-size: 13px;color: rgb(0, 0, 0);font-family: ari=
al, sans-serif;"><div>Bob,<br></div><div><br></div><div>Question about adva=
ncing the camshaft 4 degrees as you mentioned in your post.&nbsp; Is 4 degr=
ees camshaft degrees or crankshaft degrees?</div><div><br></div><div>Regard=
s,</div><div><br></div><div>Robert<br></div><br><blockquote style=3D"paddin=
g-left: 5px; margin-left: 0px; border-left: #0000ff 2px solid; font-weight:=
 normal; font-style: normal; text-decoration: none; font-size: 10pt; font-f=
amily: arial,sans-serif; color: black;">-----Original Message-----
<br>From: Robert Perry via 6pack &lt;[email-masked]&gt;
<br>Sent: Dec 30, 2019 9:42 AM
<br>To: Robert Lang <[email-masked]>, TR6 &lt;[email-masked]=
&gt;
<br>Subject: Re: [6pack] Advancing or retarding the stock camshaft

<br><br><style type=3D"text/css"><!-- DIV {margin:0px;} --></style><div sty=
le=3D"font-size: 13px;color: rgb(0, 0, 0);font-family: arial, sans-serif;">=
<div>Thanks Bob for the correction and information.</div><div><br></div><di=
v>Chart corrected below;</div><div><br></div><div>The camshaft tooth degree=
 is 8.57 (360 /42 teeth) with half tooth being 4.28 degrees. So that would =
be <br><pre class=3D"msgPlainWrap">2.14 crankshaft degrees.  Therefore Reta=
rding  the camshaft a half tooth in crankshaft degrees <br>would be the fol=
lowing;
<br>RETARDING camshaft<br>
10/50 50/10 becomes 7.86/47.86 47.86/7.86

----Original Message-----

arial,sans-serif; color: black;"><pre></pre></div><br><br></div>
</[email-masked]></blockquote><br><div id=3D"elnk_signature_157773=
8440201" style=3D"font-weight: normal; font-style: normal; text-decoration:=
 none; font-size: 10pt; font-family: arial,sans-serif; color: black;"><pre>=
</pre></div><br><br></div></body></html>

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[email-masked]

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