Subject: Re: [6pack] rear shock conversion

From: Richard via 6pack <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 13 May 2020 15:55:41 -0700

Ah Mitch....you cheated!! 

Dick 

> On May 13, 2020, at 3:32 PM, Mitchel Seff <[email-masked]> wrote:
> 
> I agree with Dicks explanation of preparation and function. I’m not denying the failures but rather try and understand why each particular failure happened. I have also had the VB tube shock bracket with KYB gas shock on my car for over twenty years with out any failure or sign of metal fatigue. I also took the extra precaution of adding a support bracket. 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mitch Seff
> 
>>>> On May 12, 2020, at 4:47 PM, Richard Taylor via 6pack <[email-masked]> wrote:
>>> My message here, as told before on different TR6 forums, is that if one wants to convert from lever shocks to tube shocks, it is prudent that when the trailing arm rises the trailing arm bump stop(s) take the force, and not the shock attachment points. This can be checked by removing the road spring and manual lifting the TA up to see where contact is made. In my case, when done approx. 10 years and around 70,000 miles ago. A 1/8 inch spacer was added where it screws to the new TA bump rubbers. Also some shifting around to the shock bump rubbers, so that there was room left in the shock stroke when hard contact was made between the bump stop and the bump rubbers. Also note here that i’m running the “semi-comp” road springs, so it’s not often that all of the spring compression takes place. 
>>> I write this not to defend the tube shock conversion, but to show that this conversion needs to be checked out to be sure the above takes place. And no, the attachment point from my conversion has never torn loose or welded at any time. I do view this area each time the road wheel is removed for some other reason. 
>>> So far as what I look for regarding shock operation is not all that scientific. Just press down with my weight on the rear fenders several times and watch the action, I want both bounce and rebound to show a good damping effect. 
>>> In place is the KYB silver shock conversion, purchased from VB. (A birthday gift from my bride of 30 years) 
>>> 
>>> Dick 
>>>> On May 12, 2020, at 7:56 AM, Glenn Franco via 6pack <[email-masked]> wrote:
>>> The rear shock conversion sold by the likes of Moss Motors, TRF, Vicky Brit, and others is likely going to result in the shock crossmember being fractured at the weld to the frame. I have fixed a few of these and this is a well known failure mode. The best practice if you are going to use these is to fashion a diagonal brace from the upper shock mount 45 deg down to the frame. I have seen some made from angle but I made a number of these from 1" thick wall tube.
>>> The problem with this conversion is its to simple to attach but it imparts fore aft loads on the crossmember that causes fractures and then if fails completely and detaches from the frame.
>>> The lever shocks do not cause fore aft loads and therefore no issues. We just had another club member suffer such a failure of the shock crossmember.
>>> If you ever have to fix one of these your in for a treat since not only does it pull away from the frame but it tends to twist that crossmember.
>>> This bracket should not be confused with the one TRF sold that the upper shock mount attaches to the inner rear wheel well. That one has its own issues.
>>> Good luck with that
>>> Glenn
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html
>>> Suggested annual donation  $12.96
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>> 
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>> Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html
>> Suggested annual donation  $12.96
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From: Richard via 6pack <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 13 May 2020 15:55:41 -0700

Dick 

[email-masked]

---

From: Mitchel Seff via 6pack <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 13 May 2020 18:32:22 -0400

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I agree with Dicks explanation of preparation and function. I=E2=80=99m not d=
enying the failures but rather try and understand why each particular failur=
e happened. I have also had the VB tube shock bracket with KYB gas shock on m=
y car for over twenty years with out any failure or sign of metal fatigue. I=
 also took the extra precaution of adding a support bracket.=20

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Mitch Seff

>>> On May 12, 2020, at 4:47 PM, Richard Taylor via 6pack <[email-masked].=
net> wrote:
>> =EF=BB=BFMy message here, as told before on different TR6 forums, is that=
 if one wants to convert from lever shocks to tube shocks, it is prudent tha=
t when the trailing arm rises the trailing arm bump stop(s) take the force, a=
nd not the shock attachment points. This can be checked by removing the road=
 spring and manual lifting the TA up to see where contact is made. In my cas=
e, when done approx. 10 years and around 70,000 miles ago. A 1/8 inch spacer=
 was added where it screws to the new TA bump rubbers. Also some shifting ar=
ound to the shock bump rubbers, so that there was room left in the shock str=
oke when hard contact was made between the bump stop and the bump rubbers. A=
lso note here that i=E2=80=99m running the =E2=80=9Csemi-comp=E2=80=9D road s=
prings, so it=E2=80=99s not often that all of the spring compression takes p=
lace.=20
>> I write this not to defend the tube shock conversion, but to show that th=
is conversion needs to be checked out to be sure the above takes place. And n=
o, the attachment point from my conversion has never torn loose or welded at=
 any time. I do view this area each time the road wheel is removed for some o=
ther reason.=20
>> So far as what I look for regarding shock operation is not all that scien=
tific. Just press down with my weight on the rear fenders several times and w=
atch the action, I want both bounce and rebound to show a good damping effec=
t.=20
>> In place is the KYB silver shock conversion, purchased from VB. (A birthd=
ay gift from my bride of 30 years)=20
>>=20
>> Dick=20
>>> On May 12, 2020, at 7:56 AM, Glenn Franco via 6pack <[email-masked]=
t> wrote:
>> The rear shock conversion sold by the likes of Moss Motors, TRF, Vicky Br=
it, and others is likely going to result in the shock crossmember being frac=
tured at the weld to the frame. I have fixed a few of these and this is a we=
ll known failure mode. The best practice if you are going to use these is to=
 fashion a diagonal brace from the upper shock mount 45 deg down to the fram=
e. I have seen some made from angle but I made a number of these from 1" thi=
ck wall tube.
>> The problem with this conversion is its to simple to attach but it impart=
s fore aft loads on the crossmember that causes fractures and then if fails c=
ompletely and detaches from the frame.
>> The lever shocks do not cause fore aft loads and therefore no issues. We j=
ust had another club member suffer such a failure of the shock crossmember.
>> If you ever have to fix one of these your in for a treat since not only d=
oes it pull away from the frame but it tends to twist that crossmember.
>> This bracket should not be confused with the one TRF sold that the upper s=
hock mount attaches to the inner rear wheel well. That one has its own issue=
s.
>> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/6pack/taylortur=
[email-masked]
>=20
>=20
>=20
> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/6pack/ms6453@opt=
online.net

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[email-masked]

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---

From: Mitchel Seff via 6pack <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 13 May 2020 18:58:13 -0400

Hey Dick,

It’s only cheating if ya get caught 😳

Mitch Seff

> On May 13, 2020, at 6:55 PM, Richard <[email-masked]> wrote:
> 

[email-masked]

---

From: Ashford Little via 6pack <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 13 May 2020 19:54:24 -0400

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Does any of this help with mental fatigue? =20

Ashford Little
[email-masked]

> On May 13, 2020, at 6:55 PM, Richard via 6pack <[email-masked]> =
wrote:
>=20
> Ah Mitch....you cheated!!=20
>=20
> Dick=20
>=20
>> I agree with Dicks explanation of preparation and function. I=E2=80=99m=
 not denying the failures but rather try and understand why each =
particular failure happened. I have also had the VB tube shock bracket =
with KYB gas shock on my car for over twenty years with out any failure =
or sign of metal fatigue. I also took the extra precaution of adding a =
support bracket.=20
>>=20
>>=20
>>=20
>>=20
>> Mitch Seff
>>=20
>>>>> On May 12, 2020, at 4:47 PM, Richard Taylor via 6pack =
<[email-masked]> wrote:
>>>> =EF=BB=BFMy message here, as told before on different TR6 forums, =
is that if one wants to convert from lever shocks to tube shocks, it is =
prudent that when the trailing arm rises the trailing arm bump stop(s) =
take the force, and not the shock attachment points. This can be checked =
by removing the road spring and manual lifting the TA up to see where =
contact is made. In my case, when done approx. 10 years and around =
70,000 miles ago. A 1/8 inch spacer was added where it screws to the new =
TA bump rubbers. Also some shifting around to the shock bump rubbers, so =
that there was room left in the shock stroke when hard contact was made =
between the bump stop and the bump rubbers. Also note here that i=E2=80=99=
m running the =E2=80=9Csemi-comp=E2=80=9D road springs, so it=E2=80=99s =
not often that all of the spring compression takes place.=20
>>>> I write this not to defend the tube shock conversion, but to show =
that this conversion needs to be checked out to be sure the above takes =
place. And no, the attachment point from my conversion has never torn =
loose or welded at any time. I do view this area each time the road =
wheel is removed for some other reason.=20
>>>> So far as what I look for regarding shock operation is not all that =
scientific. Just press down with my weight on the rear fenders several =
times and watch the action, I want both bounce and rebound to show a =
good damping effect.=20
>>>> In place is the KYB silver shock conversion, purchased from VB. (A =
birthday gift from my bride of 30 years)=20
>>>>=20
>>>> Dick=20
>>>>> On May 12, 2020, at 7:56 AM, Glenn Franco via 6pack =
<[email-masked]> wrote:
>>>> The rear shock conversion sold by the likes of Moss Motors, TRF, =
Vicky Brit, and others is likely going to result in the shock =
crossmember being fractured at the weld to the frame. I have fixed a few =
of these and this is a well known failure mode. The best practice if you =
are going to use these is to fashion a diagonal brace from the upper =
shock mount 45 deg down to the frame. I have seen some made from angle =
but I made a number of these from 1" thick wall tube.
>>>> The problem with this conversion is its to simple to attach but it =
imparts fore aft loads on the crossmember that causes fractures and then =
if fails completely and detaches from the frame.
>>>> The lever shocks do not cause fore aft loads and therefore no =
issues. We just had another club member suffer such a failure of the =
shock crossmember.
>>>> If you ever have to fix one of these your in for a treat since not =
only does it pull away from the frame but it tends to twist that =
crossmember.
>>>> This bracket should not be confused with the one TRF sold that the =
upper shock mount attaches to the inner rear wheel well. That one has =
its own issues.
>>>> Unsubscribe/Manage: =
http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/6pack/[email-masked]
>>> Unsubscribe/Manage: =
http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/6pack/[email-masked]
> Unsubscribe/Manage: =
http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/6pack/[email-masked]

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<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Dutf-8"></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class=3D"">Does =
any of this help with mental fatigue? &nbsp;<br class=3D""><div =
class=3D"">
<span class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); =
font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; =
font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: =
start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; border-collapse: separate; font-size: =
14px; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-position: normal; =
font-variant-numeric: normal; font-variant-alternates: normal; =
font-variant-east-asian: normal; line-height: normal; border-spacing: =
0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none;"><span =
class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"border-collapse: separate; color: =
rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 14px; font-style: =
normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-position: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-variant-numeric: normal; =
font-variant-alternates: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; =
font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; =
orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; border-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-stroke-width: =
0px;"><div style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; =
-webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class=3D""><div class=3D""><div =
class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 16px;" class=3D""><br =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline">Ashford Little</span></div><div =
style=3D"font-size: 16px;" class=3D""><a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]"=
 class=3D"">[email-masked]</a></div><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div></div><br class=3D""></div></span><br =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"></span><br =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline" style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); =
font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 16px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
orphans: 2; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; =
white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;">
</div>
<div style=3D""><br class=3D""><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div =
class=3D"">On May 13, 2020, at 6:55 PM, Richard via 6pack &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" =
class=3D"">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:</div><br =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=3D""><div class=3D"">Ah =
Mitch....you cheated!! <br class=3D""><br class=3D"">Dick <br =
class=3D""><br class=3D""><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D"">On May =
13, 2020, at 3:32 PM, Mitchel Seff &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]"=
 class=3D"">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:<br class=3D""><br class=3D"">I=
 agree with Dicks explanation of preparation and function. I=E2=80=99m =
not denying the failures but rather try and understand why each =
particular failure happened. I have also had the VB tube shock bracket =
with KYB gas shock on my car for over twenty years with out any failure =
or sign of metal fatigue. I also took the extra precaution of adding a =
support bracket. <br class=3D"">&lt;image0.jpeg&gt;<br class=3D""><br =
class=3D"">&lt;image1.jpeg&gt;<br class=3D""><br class=3D""><br =
class=3D""><br class=3D"">Mitch Seff<br class=3D""><br =
class=3D""><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D""><blockquote type=3D"cite" =
class=3D""><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D"">On May 12, 2020, at 4:47 =
PM, Richard Taylor via 6pack &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" =
class=3D"">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:<br =
class=3D""></blockquote>=EF=BB=BFMy message here, as told before on =
different TR6 forums, is that if one wants to convert from lever shocks =
to tube shocks, it is prudent that when the trailing arm rises the =
trailing arm bump stop(s) take the force, and not the shock attachment =
points. This can be checked by removing the road spring and manual =
lifting the TA up to see where contact is made. In my case, when done =
approx. 10 years and around 70,000 miles ago. A 1/8 inch spacer was =
added where it screws to the new TA bump rubbers. Also some shifting =
around to the shock bump rubbers, so that there was room left in the =
shock stroke when hard contact was made between the bump stop and the =
bump rubbers. Also note here that i=E2=80=99m running the =
=E2=80=9Csemi-comp=E2=80=9D road springs, so it=E2=80=99s not often that =
all of the spring compression takes place. <br class=3D"">I write this =
not to defend the tube shock conversion, but to show that this =
conversion needs to be checked out to be sure the above takes place. And =
no, the attachment point from my conversion has never torn loose or =
welded at any time. I do view this area each time the road wheel is =
removed for some other reason. <br class=3D"">So far as what I look for =
regarding shock operation is not all that scientific. Just press down =
with my weight on the rear fenders several times and watch the action, I =
want both bounce and rebound to show a good damping effect. <br =
class=3D"">In place is the KYB silver shock conversion, purchased from =
VB. (A birthday gift from my bride of 30 years) <br class=3D""><br =
class=3D"">Dick <br class=3D""><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D"">On =
May 12, 2020, at 7:56 AM, Glenn Franco via 6pack &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" =
class=3D"">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:<br =
class=3D""></blockquote>The rear shock conversion sold by the likes of =
Moss Motors, TRF, Vicky Brit, and others is likely going to result in =
the shock crossmember being fractured at the weld to the frame. I have =
fixed a few of these and this is a well known failure mode. The best =
practice if you are going to use these is to fashion a diagonal brace =
from the upper shock mount 45 deg down to the frame. I have seen some =
made from angle but I made a number of these from 1" thick wall tube.<br =
class=3D"">The problem with this conversion is its to simple to attach =
but it imparts fore aft loads on the crossmember that causes fractures =
and then if fails completely and detaches from the frame.<br =
class=3D"">The lever shocks do not cause fore aft loads and therefore no =
issues. We just had another club member suffer such a failure of the =
shock crossmember.<br class=3D"">If you ever have to fix one of these =
your in for a treat since not only does it pull away from the frame but =
it tends to twist that crossmember.<br class=3D"">This bracket should =
not be confused with the one TRF sold that the upper shock mount =
attaches to the inner rear wheel well. That one has its own issues.<br =
class=3D"">Good luck with that<br class=3D"">Glenn<br =
class=3D"">_______________________________________________<br =
class=3D"">Support <a href=3D"http://Team.Net" class=3D"">Team.Net</a> =
<a href=3D"http://www.team.net/donate.html" =
class=3D"">http://www.team.net/donate.html</a><br class=3D"">Suggested =
annual donation &nbsp;$12.96<br class=3D"">Archive: <a =
href=3D"http://www.team.net/archive" =
class=3D"">http://www.team.net/archive</a><br class=3D"">Forums: <a =
href=3D"http://www.team.net/forums" =
class=3D"">http://www.team.net/forums</a><br class=3D""><a =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" =
class=3D"">[email-masked]</a><br =
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class=3D"">Unsubscribe/Manage: =
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class=3D"">_______________________________________________<br =
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class=3D"">[email-masked]</a><br =
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[email-masked]

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---

From: Jim Jones via 6pack <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 16 May 2020 19:37:54 +0000 (UTC)

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I=E2=80=99m chiming in later on this, but has anyone looked into the Reving=
ton coil over conversion?=C2=A0https://www.revingtontr.com/product/rtr3003s=
pk/name/damper-conversion-kit-rear-tr4a-6=C2=A0

Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone

On Saturday, May 16, 2020, 12:06 PM, Ashford Little via 6pack <6pack@autox.=
team.net> wrote:

Does any of this help with mental fatigue? =C2=A0

Ashford [email-masked]

On May 13, 2020, at 6:55 PM, Richard via 6pack <[email-masked]> wrote=
:
Ah Mitch....you cheated!!=20

Dick=20

I agree with Dicks explanation of preparation and function. I=E2=80=99m not=
 denying the failures but rather try and understand why each particular fai=
lure happened. I have also had the VB tube shock bracket with KYB gas shock=
 on my car for over twenty years with out any failure or sign of metal fati=
gue. I also took the extra precaution of adding a support bracket.=20

Mitch Seff

On May 12, 2020, at 4:47 PM, Richard Taylor via 6pack <[email-masked]=
> wrote:

=EF=BB=BFMy message here, as told before on different TR6 forums, is that i=
f one wants to convert from lever shocks to tube shocks, it is prudent that=
 when the trailing arm rises the trailing arm bump stop(s) take the force, =
and not the shock attachment points. This can be checked by removing the ro=
ad spring and manual lifting the TA up to see where contact is made. In my =
case, when done approx. 10 years and around 70,000 miles ago. A 1/8 inch sp=
acer was added where it screws to the new TA bump rubbers. Also some shifti=
ng around to the shock bump rubbers, so that there was room left in the sho=
ck stroke when hard contact was made between the bump stop and the bump rub=
bers. Also note here that i=E2=80=99m running the =E2=80=9Csemi-comp=E2=80=
=9D road springs, so it=E2=80=99s not often that all of the spring compress=
ion takes place.=20
I write this not to defend the tube shock conversion, but to show that this=
 conversion needs to be checked out to be sure the above takes place. And n=
o, the attachment point from my conversion has never torn loose or welded a=
t any time. I do view this area each time the road wheel is removed for som=
e other reason.=20
So far as what I look for regarding shock operation is not all that scienti=
fic. Just press down with my weight on the rear fenders several times and w=
atch the action, I want both bounce and rebound to show a good damping effe=
ct.=20
In place is the KYB silver shock conversion, purchased from VB. (A birthday=
 gift from my bride of 30 years)=20

Dick=20

On May 12, 2020, at 7:56 AM, Glenn Franco via 6pack <[email-masked]> =
wrote:

The rear shock conversion sold by the likes of Moss Motors, TRF, Vicky Brit=
, and others is likely going to result in the shock crossmember being fract=
ured at the weld to the frame. I have fixed a few of these and this is a we=
ll known failure mode. The best practice if you are going to use these is t=
o fashion a diagonal brace from the upper shock mount 45 deg down to the fr=
ame. I have seen some made from angle but I made a number of these from 1" =
thick wall tube.
The problem with this conversion is its to simple to attach but it imparts =
fore aft loads on the crossmember that causes fractures and then if fails c=
ompletely and detaches from the frame.
The lever shocks do not cause fore aft loads and therefore no issues. We ju=
st had another club member suffer such a failure of the shock crossmember.
If you ever have to fix one of these your in for a treat since not only doe=
s it pull away from the frame but it tends to twist that crossmember.
This bracket should not be confused with the one TRF sold that the upper sh=
ock mount attaches to the inner rear wheel well. That one has its own issue=
s.
Good luck with that
Glenn
_______________________________________________
Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
[email-masked]
http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/6pack
[email-masked]

[email-masked]

nline.net

[email-masked]

ac.com

[email-masked]

oo.com

------=_Part_197475_1856369492.1589657874239
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<html xmlns=3D"http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml" xmlns:v=3D"urn:schemas-microso=
ft-com:vml" xmlns:o=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office"><head><!--[=
if gte mso 9]><xml><o:OfficeDocumentSettings><o:AllowPNG/><o:PixelsPerInch>=
96</o:PixelsPerInch></o:OfficeDocumentSettings></xml><![endif]--></head><bo=
dy>
I=E2=80=99m chiming in later on this, but has anyone looked into the Reving=
ton coil over conversion?&nbsp;<a href=3D"https://www.revingtontr.com/produ=
ct/rtr3003spk/name/damper-conversion-kit-rear-tr4a-6" target=3D"_blank">htt=
ps://www.revingtontr.com/product/rtr3003spk/name/damper-conversion-kit-rear=
-tr4a-6</a>&nbsp;<div id=3D"temp-enhancr-placeholder" class=3D"enhancr-plac=
eholder-medium" data-size=3D"medium"></div><br><br><br><a href=3D"https://o=
verview.mail.yahoo.com/?.src=3DiOS">Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone</a><br>=
<br><p class=3D"yahoo-quoted-begin" style=3D"font-size: 15px; color: #715FF=
A; padding-top: 15px; margin-top: 0">On Saturday, May 16, 2020, 12:06 PM, A=
shford Little via 6pack &lt;[email-masked]&gt; wrote:</p><blockquote =
class=3D"iosymail"><div id=3D"yiv0325426009"><div>Does any of this help wit=
h mental fatigue? &nbsp;<br clear=3D"none" class=3D"yiv0325426009"><div cla=
ss=3D"yiv0325426009">
<span class=3D"yiv0325426009Apple-style-span" style=3D"color:rgb(0, 0, 0);f=
ont-family:Helvetica;font-style:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:no=
rmal;orphans:2;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;widow=
s:2;word-spacing:0px;border-collapse:separate;font-size:14px;line-height:no=
rmal;border-spacing:0px;"><span class=3D"yiv0325426009Apple-style-span" sty=
le=3D"border-collapse:separate;color:rgb(0, 0, 0);font-family:Helvetica;fon=
t-size:14px;font-style:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line=
-height:normal;orphans:2;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:no=
rmal;widows:2;word-spacing:0px;border-spacing:0px;"></span></span><div clas=
s=3D"yiv0325426009" style=3D"word-wrap:break-word;"><div class=3D"yiv032542=
6009"><div class=3D"yiv0325426009"><span class=3D"yiv0325426009" style=3D"f=
ont-size:16px;"><br clear=3D"none" class=3D"yiv0325426009Apple-interchange-=
newline">Ashford Little</span></div><div class=3D"yiv0325426009" style=3D"f=
ont-size:16px;"><a rel=3D"nofollow" shape=3D"rect" class=3D"yiv0325426009" =
ymailto=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank" href=3D"mailto:ralit=
[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a></div><div class=3D"yiv0325426009"><br c=
lear=3D"none" class=3D"yiv0325426009"></div></div><br clear=3D"none" class=
=3D"yiv0325426009"></div><br clear=3D"none" class=3D"yiv0325426009Apple-int=
erchange-newline"><br clear=3D"none" class=3D"yiv0325426009Apple-interchang=
e-newline" style=3D"color:rgb(0, 0, 0);font-family:Helvetica;font-size:16px=
;font-style:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;orphans:2;text-=
indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;widows:2;word-spacing:0px=
;">
</div>
<div style=3D""><br clear=3D"none" class=3D"yiv0325426009"><blockquote clas=
s=3D"yiv0325426009" type=3D"cite"><div class=3D"yiv0325426009yqt9068940614"=
 id=3D"yiv0325426009yqtfd87528"><div class=3D"yiv0325426009">On May 13, 202=
0, at 6:55 PM, Richard via 6pack &lt;<a rel=3D"nofollow" shape=3D"rect" cla=
ss=3D"yiv0325426009" ymailto=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_bla=
nk" href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote=
:</div><br clear=3D"none" class=3D"yiv0325426009Apple-interchange-newline">=
</div><div class=3D"yiv0325426009"><div class=3D"yiv0325426009"><div class=
=3D"yiv0325426009yqt9068940614" id=3D"yiv0325426009yqtfd38563">Ah Mitch....=
you cheated!! <br clear=3D"none" class=3D"yiv0325426009"><br clear=3D"none"=
 class=3D"yiv0325426009">Dick <br clear=3D"none" class=3D"yiv0325426009"><b=
r clear=3D"none" class=3D"yiv0325426009"><blockquote class=3D"yiv0325426009=
" type=3D"cite">On May 13, 2020, at 3:32 PM, Mitchel Seff &lt;<a rel=3D"nof=
ollow" shape=3D"rect" class=3D"yiv0325426009" ymailto=3D"mailto:ms6453@gmai=
l.com" target=3D"_blank" href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]<=
/a>&gt; wrote:<br clear=3D"none" class=3D"yiv0325426009"><br clear=3D"none"=
 class=3D"yiv0325426009">I agree with Dicks explanation of preparation and =
function. I=E2=80=99m not denying the failures but rather try and understan=
d why each particular failure happened. I have also had the VB tube shock b=
racket with KYB gas shock on my car for over twenty years with out any fail=
ure or sign of metal fatigue. I also took the extra precaution of adding a =
support bracket. <br clear=3D"none" class=3D"yiv0325426009">&lt;image0.jpeg=
&gt;<br clear=3D"none" class=3D"yiv0325426009"><br clear=3D"none" class=3D"=
yiv0325426009">&lt;image1.jpeg&gt;<br clear=3D"none" class=3D"yiv0325426009=
"><br clear=3D"none" class=3D"yiv0325426009"><br clear=3D"none" class=3D"yi=
v0325426009"><br clear=3D"none" class=3D"yiv0325426009">Mitch Seff<br clear=
=3D"none" class=3D"yiv0325426009"><br clear=3D"none" class=3D"yiv0325426009=
"><blockquote class=3D"yiv0325426009" type=3D"cite"><blockquote class=3D"yi=
v0325426009" type=3D"cite"><blockquote class=3D"yiv0325426009" type=3D"cite=
">On May 12, 2020, at 4:47 PM, Richard Taylor via 6pack &lt;<a rel=3D"nofol=
low" shape=3D"rect" class=3D"yiv0325426009" ymailto=3D"mailto:[email-masked]=
eam.net" target=3D"_blank" href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">6pack@autox=
.team.net</a>&gt; wrote:<br clear=3D"none" class=3D"yiv0325426009"></blockq=
uote>=EF=BB=BFMy message here, as told before on different TR6 forums, is t=
hat if one wants to convert from lever shocks to tube shocks, it is prudent=
 that when the trailing arm rises the trailing arm bump stop(s) take the fo=
rce, and not the shock attachment points. This can be checked by removing t=
he road spring and manual lifting the TA up to see where contact is made. I=
n my case, when done approx. 10 years and around 70,000 miles ago. A 1/8 in=
ch spacer was added where it screws to the new TA bump rubbers. Also some s=
hifting around to the shock bump rubbers, so that there was room left in th=
e shock stroke when hard contact was made between the bump stop and the bum=
p rubbers. Also note here that i=E2=80=99m running the =E2=80=9Csemi-comp=
=E2=80=9D road springs, so it=E2=80=99s not often that all of the spring co=
mpression takes place. <br clear=3D"none" class=3D"yiv0325426009">I write t=
his not to defend the tube shock conversion, but to show that this conversi=
on needs to be checked out to be sure the above takes place. And no, the at=
tachment point from my conversion has never torn loose or welded at any tim=
e. I do view this area each time the road wheel is removed for some other r=
eason. <br clear=3D"none" class=3D"yiv0325426009">So far as what I look for=
 regarding shock operation is not all that scientific. Just press down with=
 my weight on the rear fenders several times and watch the action, I want b=
oth bounce and rebound to show a good damping effect. <br clear=3D"none" cl=
ass=3D"yiv0325426009">In place is the KYB silver shock conversion, purchase=
d from VB. (A birthday gift from my bride of 30 years) <br clear=3D"none" c=
lass=3D"yiv0325426009"><br clear=3D"none" class=3D"yiv0325426009">Dick <br =
clear=3D"none" class=3D"yiv0325426009"><blockquote class=3D"yiv0325426009" =
type=3D"cite">On May 12, 2020, at 7:56 AM, Glenn Franco via 6pack &lt;<a re=
l=3D"nofollow" shape=3D"rect" class=3D"yiv0325426009" ymailto=3D"mailto:6pa=
[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank" href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">6=
[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:<br clear=3D"none" class=3D"yiv0325426009=
"></blockquote>The rear shock conversion sold by the likes of Moss Motors, =
TRF, Vicky Brit, and others is likely going to result in the shock crossmem=
ber being fractured at the weld to the frame. I have fixed a few of these a=
nd this is a well known failure mode. The best practice if you are going to=
 use these is to fashion a diagonal brace from the upper shock mount 45 deg=
 down to the frame. I have seen some made from angle but I made a number of=
 these from 1" thick wall tube.<br clear=3D"none" class=3D"yiv0325426009">T=
he problem with this conversion is its to simple to attach but it imparts f=
ore aft loads on the crossmember that causes fractures and then if fails co=
mpletely and detaches from the frame.<br clear=3D"none" class=3D"yiv0325426=
009">The lever shocks do not cause fore aft loads and therefore no issues. =
We just had another club member suffer such a failure of the shock crossmem=
ber.<br clear=3D"none" class=3D"yiv0325426009">If you ever have to fix one =
of these your in for a treat since not only does it pull away from the fram=
e but it tends to twist that crossmember.<br clear=3D"none" class=3D"yiv032=
5426009">This bracket should not be confused with the one TRF sold that the=
 upper shock mount attaches to the inner rear wheel well. That one has its =
own issues.<br clear=3D"none" class=3D"yiv0325426009">Good luck with that<b=
r clear=3D"none" class=3D"yiv0325426009">Glenn<br clear=3D"none" class=3D"y=
iv0325426009">_______________________________________________<br clear=3D"n=
one" class=3D"yiv0325426009">Support <a rel=3D"nofollow" shape=3D"rect" cla=
ss=3D"yiv0325426009" target=3D"_blank" href=3D"http://Team.Net">Team.Net</a=
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tox.team.net</a><br clear=3D"none" class=3D"yiv0325426009">http://autox.tea=
m.net/mailman/listinfo/6pack<br clear=3D"none" class=3D"yiv0325426009"><br =
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25426009">_______________________________________________<br clear=3D"none"=
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//www.team.net/forums</a><br clear=3D"none" class=3D"yiv0325426009"><br cle=
ar=3D"none" class=3D"yiv0325426009"><a rel=3D"nofollow" shape=3D"rect" clas=
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r=3D"none" class=3D"yiv0325426009"></div></div></div></blockquote></div><di=
v class=3D"yiv0325426009yqt9068940614" id=3D"yiv0325426009yqtfd83706"><br c=
lear=3D"none" class=3D"yiv0325426009"></div></div></div><div class=3D"yqt90=
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rchive: <a shape=3D"rect" href=3D"http://www.team.net/archive" target=3D"_b=
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ilto=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">6=
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</body></html>
------=_Part_197475_1856369492.1589657874239--

--===============5610963612866959560==
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Disposition: inline

[email-masked]

--===============5610963612866959560==--

---

From: Robert Lang via 6pack <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 21 May 2020 12:31:42 +0000 (UTC)

--===============0266954864684836154==
	boundary="----=_Part_1828604_792977630.1590064302320"

------=_Part_1828604_792977630.1590064302320
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

 Hi - I looked at that setup when it was first out, maybe the mid-90's. It'=
s a very good setup. I think it would be better if there was a way to accom=
modate a remote reservoir so there'd be more fluid to reduce heat-related i=
ssues, but that's only applicable to a hard-core application. But regarding=
 suspension motion, that is the ideal setup for a tube shock with the stock=
 spring setup.
Regards,Bob Lang

    On Sunday, May 17, 2020, 12:26:28 PM EDT, Jim Jones via 6pack <6pack@au=
tox.team.net> wrote: =20
=20
 I=E2=80=99m chiming in later on this, but has anyone looked into the Revin=
gton coil over conversion?=C2=A0https://www.revingtontr.com/product/rtr3003=
spk/name/damper-conversion-kit-rear-tr4a-6=C2=A0

Dick=20

Mitch Seff

Dick=20

[email-masked]

nline.net

[email-masked]

ac.com

[email-masked]

oo.com

[email-masked]

[email-masked]

 =20
------=_Part_1828604_792977630.1590064302320
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<html><head></head><body><div class=3D"ydp274f2cb8yahoo-style-wrap" style=
=3D"font-family:Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;font-size:13px=
;"><div></div>
        <div dir=3D"ltr" data-setdir=3D"false">Hi - I looked at that setup =
when it was first out, maybe the mid-90's. It's a very good setup. I think =
it would be better if there was a way to accommodate a remote reservoir so =
there'd be more fluid to reduce heat-related issues, but that's only applic=
able to a hard-core application. But regarding suspension motion, that is t=
he ideal setup for a tube shock with the stock spring setup.</div><div dir=
=3D"ltr" data-setdir=3D"false"><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr" data-setdir=3D"fa=
lse">Regards,</div><div dir=3D"ltr" data-setdir=3D"false">Bob Lang<br></div=
><div><br></div>
       =20
        </div><div id=3D"ydp57f702b7yahoo_quoted_0112478472" class=3D"ydp57=
f702b7yahoo_quoted">
            <div style=3D"font-family:'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, s=
ans-serif;font-size:13px;color:#26282a;">
               =20
                <div>
                    On Sunday, May 17, 2020, 12:26:28 PM EDT, Jim Jones via=
 6pack &lt;[email-masked]&gt; wrote:
                </div>
                <div><br></div>
                <div><br></div>
                <div><div id=3D"ydp57f702b7yiv0932355640"><div>
I=E2=80=99m chiming in later on this, but has anyone looked into the Reving=
ton coil over conversion?&nbsp;<a shape=3D"rect" href=3D"https://www.reving=
tontr.com/product/rtr3003spk/name/damper-conversion-kit-rear-tr4a-6" rel=3D=
"nofollow" target=3D"_blank">https://www.revingtontr.com/product/rtr3003spk=
/name/damper-conversion-kit-rear-tr4a-6</a>&nbsp;<div class=3D"ydp57f702b7y=
iv0932355640enhancr-placeholder-medium" id=3D"ydp57f702b7yiv0932355640temp-=
enhancr-placeholder" data-size=3D"medium"></div><br clear=3D"none"><br clea=
r=3D"none"><br clear=3D"none"><a shape=3D"rect" href=3D"https://overview.ma=
il.yahoo.com/?.src=3DiOS" rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank">Sent from Yaho=
o Mail for iPhone</a><br clear=3D"none"><br clear=3D"none"><div class=3D"yd=
p57f702b7yiv0932355640yqt1849233474" id=3D"ydp57f702b7yiv0932355640yqt06221=
"><p class=3D"ydp57f702b7yiv0932355640yahoo-quoted-begin" style=3D"font-siz=
e:15px;color:#715FFA;padding-top:15px;margin-top:0;">On Saturday, May 16, 2=
020, 12:06 PM, Ashford Little via 6pack &lt;[email-masked]&gt; wrote:=
</p><blockquote class=3D"ydp57f702b7yiv0932355640iosymail"><div id=3D"ydp57=
f702b7yiv0932355640"><div>Does any of this help with mental fatigue? &nbsp;=
<br class=3D"ydp57f702b7yiv0932355640" clear=3D"none"><div class=3D"ydp57f7=
02b7yiv0932355640">
<span class=3D"ydp57f702b7yiv0932355640Apple-style-span" style=3D"color:rgb=
(0, 0, 0);font-family:Helvetica;font-style:normal;font-weight:normal;letter=
-spacing:normal;orphans:2;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:n=
ormal;widows:2;word-spacing:0px;border-collapse:separate;font-size:14px;lin=
e-height:normal;border-spacing:0px;"><span class=3D"ydp57f702b7yiv093235564=
0Apple-style-span" style=3D"border-collapse:separate;color:rgb(0, 0, 0);fon=
t-family:Helvetica;font-size:14px;font-style:normal;font-weight:normal;lett=
er-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;orphans:2;text-indent:0px;text-transfo=
rm:none;white-space:normal;widows:2;word-spacing:0px;border-spacing:0px;"><=
/span></span><div class=3D"ydp57f702b7yiv0932355640"><div class=3D"ydp57f70=
2b7yiv0932355640"><div class=3D"ydp57f702b7yiv0932355640"><span class=3D"yd=
p57f702b7yiv0932355640" style=3D"font-size:16px;"><br class=3D"ydp57f702b7y=
iv0932355640Apple-interchange-newline" clear=3D"none">Ashford Little</span>=
</div><div class=3D"ydp57f702b7yiv0932355640" style=3D"font-size:16px;"><a =
shape=3D"rect" class=3D"ydp57f702b7yiv0932355640" href=3D"mailto:ralittle2@=
mac.com" rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a></div><div=
 class=3D"ydp57f702b7yiv0932355640"><br class=3D"ydp57f702b7yiv0932355640" =
clear=3D"none"></div></div><br class=3D"ydp57f702b7yiv0932355640" clear=3D"=
none"></div><br class=3D"ydp57f702b7yiv0932355640Apple-interchange-newline"=
 clear=3D"none"><br class=3D"ydp57f702b7yiv0932355640Apple-interchange-newl=
ine" style=3D"color:rgb(0, 0, 0);font-family:Helvetica;font-size:16px;font-=
style:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;orphans:2;text-indent=
:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;widows:2;word-spacing:0px;" cle=
ar=3D"none">
</div>
<div><br class=3D"ydp57f702b7yiv0932355640" clear=3D"none"><blockquote clas=
s=3D"ydp57f702b7yiv0932355640" type=3D"cite"><div class=3D"ydp57f702b7yiv09=
32355640yqt9068940614" id=3D"ydp57f702b7yiv0932355640yqtfd87528"><div class=
=3D"ydp57f702b7yiv0932355640">On May 13, 2020, at 6:55 PM, Richard via 6pac=
k &lt;<a shape=3D"rect" class=3D"ydp57f702b7yiv0932355640" href=3D"mailto:6=
[email-masked]" rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]=
t</a>&gt; wrote:</div><br class=3D"ydp57f702b7yiv0932355640Apple-interchang=
e-newline" clear=3D"none"></div><div class=3D"ydp57f702b7yiv0932355640"><di=
v class=3D"ydp57f702b7yiv0932355640"><div class=3D"ydp57f702b7yiv0932355640=
yqt9068940614" id=3D"ydp57f702b7yiv0932355640yqtfd38563">Ah Mitch....you ch=
eated!! <br class=3D"ydp57f702b7yiv0932355640" clear=3D"none"><br class=3D"=
ydp57f702b7yiv0932355640" clear=3D"none">Dick <br class=3D"ydp57f702b7yiv09=
32355640" clear=3D"none"><br class=3D"ydp57f702b7yiv0932355640" clear=3D"no=
ne"><blockquote class=3D"ydp57f702b7yiv0932355640" type=3D"cite">On May 13,=
 2020, at 3:32 PM, Mitchel Seff &lt;<a shape=3D"rect" class=3D"ydp57f702b7y=
iv0932355640" href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_=
blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:<br class=3D"ydp57f702b7yiv0932355640=
" clear=3D"none"><br class=3D"ydp57f702b7yiv0932355640" clear=3D"none">I ag=
ree with Dicks explanation of preparation and function. I=E2=80=99m not den=
ying the failures but rather try and understand why each particular failure=
 happened. I have also had the VB tube shock bracket with KYB gas shock on =
my car for over twenty years with out any failure or sign of metal fatigue.=
 I also took the extra precaution of adding a support bracket. <br class=3D=
"ydp57f702b7yiv0932355640" clear=3D"none">&lt;image0.jpeg&gt;<br class=3D"y=
dp57f702b7yiv0932355640" clear=3D"none"><br class=3D"ydp57f702b7yiv09323556=
40" clear=3D"none">&lt;image1.jpeg&gt;<br class=3D"ydp57f702b7yiv0932355640=
" clear=3D"none"><br class=3D"ydp57f702b7yiv0932355640" clear=3D"none"><br =
class=3D"ydp57f702b7yiv0932355640" clear=3D"none"><br class=3D"ydp57f702b7y=
iv0932355640" clear=3D"none">Mitch Seff<br class=3D"ydp57f702b7yiv093235564=
0" clear=3D"none"><br class=3D"ydp57f702b7yiv0932355640" clear=3D"none"><bl=
ockquote class=3D"ydp57f702b7yiv0932355640" type=3D"cite"><blockquote class=
=3D"ydp57f702b7yiv0932355640" type=3D"cite"><blockquote class=3D"ydp57f702b=
7yiv0932355640" type=3D"cite">On May 12, 2020, at 4:47 PM, Richard Taylor v=
ia 6pack &lt;<a shape=3D"rect" class=3D"ydp57f702b7yiv0932355640" href=3D"m=
ailto:[email-masked]" rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank">6pack@autox.=
team.net</a>&gt; wrote:<br class=3D"ydp57f702b7yiv0932355640" clear=3D"none=
"></blockquote>=EF=BB=BFMy message here, as told before on different TR6 fo=
rums, is that if one wants to convert from lever shocks to tube shocks, it =
is prudent that when the trailing arm rises the trailing arm bump stop(s) t=
ake the force, and not the shock attachment points. This can be checked by =
removing the road spring and manual lifting the TA up to see where contact =
is made. In my case, when done approx. 10 years and around 70,000 miles ago=
. A 1/8 inch spacer was added where it screws to the new TA bump rubbers. A=
lso some shifting around to the shock bump rubbers, so that there was room =
left in the shock stroke when hard contact was made between the bump stop a=
nd the bump rubbers. Also note here that i=E2=80=99m running the =E2=80=9Cs=
emi-comp=E2=80=9D road springs, so it=E2=80=99s not often that all of the s=
pring compression takes place. <br class=3D"ydp57f702b7yiv0932355640" clear=
=3D"none">I write this not to defend the tube shock conversion, but to show=
 that this conversion needs to be checked out to be sure the above takes pl=
ace. And no, the attachment point from my conversion has never torn loose o=
r welded at any time. I do view this area each time the road wheel is remov=
ed for some other reason. <br class=3D"ydp57f702b7yiv0932355640" clear=3D"n=
one">So far as what I look for regarding shock operation is not all that sc=
ientific. Just press down with my weight on the rear fenders several times =
and watch the action, I want both bounce and rebound to show a good damping=
 effect. <br class=3D"ydp57f702b7yiv0932355640" clear=3D"none">In place is =
the KYB silver shock conversion, purchased from VB. (A birthday gift from m=
y bride of 30 years) <br class=3D"ydp57f702b7yiv0932355640" clear=3D"none">=
<br class=3D"ydp57f702b7yiv0932355640" clear=3D"none">Dick <br class=3D"ydp=
57f702b7yiv0932355640" clear=3D"none"><blockquote class=3D"ydp57f702b7yiv09=
32355640" type=3D"cite">On May 12, 2020, at 7:56 AM, Glenn Franco via 6pack=
 &lt;<a shape=3D"rect" class=3D"ydp57f702b7yiv0932355640" href=3D"mailto:6p=
[email-masked]" rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]=
</a>&gt; wrote:<br class=3D"ydp57f702b7yiv0932355640" clear=3D"none"></bloc=
kquote>The rear shock conversion sold by the likes of Moss Motors, TRF, Vic=
ky Brit, and others is likely going to result in the shock crossmember bein=
g fractured at the weld to the frame. I have fixed a few of these and this =
is a well known failure mode. The best practice if you are going to use the=
se is to fashion a diagonal brace from the upper shock mount 45 deg down to=
 the frame. I have seen some made from angle but I made a number of these f=
rom 1" thick wall tube.<br class=3D"ydp57f702b7yiv0932355640" clear=3D"none=
">The problem with this conversion is its to simple to attach but it impart=
s fore aft loads on the crossmember that causes fractures and then if fails=
 completely and detaches from the frame.<br class=3D"ydp57f702b7yiv09323556=
40" clear=3D"none">The lever shocks do not cause fore aft loads and therefo=
re no issues. We just had another club member suffer such a failure of the =
shock crossmember.<br class=3D"ydp57f702b7yiv0932355640" clear=3D"none">If =
you ever have to fix one of these your in for a treat since not only does i=
t pull away from the frame but it tends to twist that crossmember.<br class=
=3D"ydp57f702b7yiv0932355640" clear=3D"none">This bracket should not be con=
fused with the one TRF sold that the upper shock mount attaches to the inne=
r rear wheel well. That one has its own issues.<br class=3D"ydp57f702b7yiv0=
932355640" clear=3D"none">Good luck with that<br class=3D"ydp57f702b7yiv093=
2355640" clear=3D"none">Glenn<br class=3D"ydp57f702b7yiv0932355640" clear=
=3D"none">_______________________________________________<br class=3D"ydp57=
f702b7yiv0932355640" clear=3D"none">Support <a shape=3D"rect" class=3D"ydp5=
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_____________________________________________<br class=3D"ydp57f702b7yiv093=
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none"><br class=3D"ydp57f702b7yiv0932355640" clear=3D"none"></div></div></d=
iv></blockquote></div><div class=3D"ydp57f702b7yiv0932355640yqt9068940614" =
id=3D"ydp57f702b7yiv0932355640yqtfd83706"><br class=3D"ydp57f702b7yiv093235=
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40yqt9068940614" id=3D"ydp57f702b7yiv0932355640yqtfd27985">________________=
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