From beeline@iline.com Mon Mar 1 06:40:13 1999 From: "Roger Beasley" To: , "Susan Hensley" , Date: Mon, 1 Mar 1999 08:38:35 -0500 Subject: Re: Spit exhaust questions This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_01BE63BE.E5715B20 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit After installing a new high-buck ss header, I decided to try to optimize the exhaust pipe length to get the most from my investment. I have a friend here in Ft. Myers, Fl who owns a Dynojet Dyno and he had encouraged to put my TR4 vintage racecar on it. He has run a number of round track cars on the dyno in addition to his own Lotus Elan vintage racer so he had some good ideas for me. Basically, I brought a long pipe of the same diameter as the collector (2 1/4") and long enough to run to the rear of the car. I also bought a turndown extension which was a slip fit to the pipe. After installing the long pipe (easy on the elevated Dynojet platform), my friend made a crayola line the length of the pipe. After we made the first pull, we looked at the pipe to find melted crayon spots. We then cut the pipe in the center of the longest spot. We continued through four pulls until we arrived at a fairly short pipe that made the best power for my particular motor. We wound up with a pipe that just did pass through the x opening in the frame and attached the turn down extension to it. I son't mention the specific length of the pipe because obviously, each motor is a different entity. I would encourage you to try a chassis dyno though. Along with the exhaust, we tried other changes that together produced significant hp/torque gains. All this for about $150 investment--the cheapest power you're likely to find. I hope this helps. Roger Beasley Cape Coral, Fl '62 TR4 ---------- > From: Janice/Matt Matthews > To: Susan Hensley ; Friends of Triumph > Subject: Re: Spit exhaust questions > Date: Saturday, February 27, 1999 8:30 PM > > Our spitfire currently has a pipe that stops just after the driver. However > we have been told by some more experienced folk who have raced spitfires > successfully in the past that they respond well to longer tail pipes. The > car originally had a full length exhaust that started in to a flat > megaphone just behind the driver and ended about a foot wide. We have seen > on other like this, the car was reputed to be ex group 44. We intend to go > back to the longer pipe when we get other problems sorted out. ------=_NextPart_000_01BE63BE.E5715B20 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

After installing a new high-buck ss = header, I decided to try to optimize the exhaust pipe length to get the = most from my investment.  I have a friend here in Ft. Myers, Fl who = owns a Dynojet Dyno and he had encouraged to put my TR4 vintage racecar = on it.

He has run a number of round track cars on the dyno in = addition to his own Lotus Elan vintage racer so he had some good ideas = for me.  Basically, I brought a long pipe of the same diameter as = the collector (2 1/4") and long enough to run to the rear of the = car. I also bought a turndown extension which was a slip fit to the = pipe.  After installing the long pipe (easy on the elevated Dynojet = platform), my friend made a crayola line the length of the = pipe.

After we made the first pull, we looked at the pipe to find = melted crayon spots.  We then cut the pipe in the center of the = longest spot.  We continued through four pulls until we arrived at = a fairly short pipe that made the best power for my particular motor. =  We wound up with a pipe that just did pass through the x opening = in the frame and attached the turn down extension to it.

I son't = mention the specific length of the pipe because obviously, each motor is = a different entity.  I would encourage you to try a chassis dyno = though.  Along with the exhaust, we tried other changes that = together produced significant  hp/torque gains.  All this for = about $150 investment--the cheapest power you're likely to = find.

I hope this helps.

Roger Beasley
Cape Coral, = Fl
'62 TR4

----------
> From: Janice/Matt Matthews = <matthews-home@worldnet.att.net>
> To: Susan Hensley <susan@bearcom.com>; = Friends of Triumph <fot@autox.team.net>
> Subject: Re: Spit exhaust = questions
> Date: Saturday, February 27, 1999 8:30 PM
> =
> Our spitfire currently has a pipe that stops just after the = driver. However
> we have been told by some more experienced folk = who have raced spitfires
> successfully in the past that they = respond well to longer tail pipes. The
> car originally had a full = length exhaust that started in to a flat
> megaphone just behind = the driver and ended about a foot wide. We have seen
> on other = like this, the car was reputed to be ex group 44. We intend to = go
> back to the longer pipe when we get other problems sorted = out.

------=_NextPart_000_01BE63BE.E5715B20-- From beeline@iline.com Mon Mar 1 06:40:13 1999 From: Jack Wheeler To: , fot@autox.team.net Date: Mon, 01 Mar 1999 09:37:11 -0500 Subject: Re: Spit exhaust questions Up until 1985, I also used a 2 1/2 inch pipe back from the header on my SCCA EP TR-4 (per the Kastner 'bible'). When I put the engine on a dyno in 1985 we found an improvement by goung to a 3 inch pipe (this was the largest diameter I could fit through the 'X' section of the TR-4A frame). We also kept lengthening the pipe and kept getting better results with a longer pipe. We finally put on a pipe that was basically the length of the car, and found better horsepower at this length than any of the shorter lengths we tried. SO, I ended up using the same headers (Stahl), but installed a larger collecter to tie into the 3" exhaust pipe, and I ran the 3" pipe as close to the end of the car as I could get it (put a little turn-out on the end for noise control). Hope this helps, and good luck. At 08:38 AM 3/1/99 -0500, you wrote: > I have a friend here in Ft. Myers, Fl who owns a Dynojet Dyno and he had >encouraged to put my TR4 vintage racecar on it. > > " After installing the long pipe (easy on the elevated Dynojet platform), >my friend made a crayola line the length of the pipe. > > We wound up with a pipe that just did pass through the x opening in the >frame and attached the turn down extension to it. > > All this for about $150 investment--the cheapest power you're likely to >find. > >I hope this helps. > >Roger Beasley >Cape Coral, Fl >'62 TR4 > >---------- >> >> >> Subject: Re: Spit exhaust questions >> Date: Saturday, February 27, 1999 8:30 PM >> >> Our spitfire currently has a pipe that stops just after the driver. However >> we have been told by some more experienced folk who have raced spitfires >> successfully in the past that they respond well to longer tail pipes. The >> car originally had a full length exhaust that started in to a flat >> megaphone just behind the driver and ended about a foot wide. We have seen >> on other like this, the car was reputed to be ex group 44. We intend to go >> back to the longer pipe when we get other problems sorted out. From beeline@iline.com Mon Mar 1 06:40:13 1999 From: Alexander Joseph H To: "'Amici Triumphi'" Date: Mon, 1 Mar 1999 09:27:05 -0600 Subject: Thrust Washers & Crankshafts I dismantled the "rebuilt" engine that is to go in my TR3A. It does have new pistons and liners, but it about ends there. Typical error of putting thrust washers in backwards....a few thousand miles on engine produces a crankshaft that is unusable in present form. What is the FOT experience with such a crank? I suspect that my machine shop will say that it beyond cleaning up, but have not discussed it with them yet. I am aware of metalizing in Marshalltown, Iowa, but don't want to resort to this yet. I will put this one on the shelf, with the other one that looks like this, and take down the crank that Chip sent me a couple of years ago. In the meantime, what is the scoop on salvaging these cranks. Thanks, Joe From beeline@iline.com Mon Mar 1 06:40:13 1999 From: Alexander Joseph H To: "'Amici Triumphi'" Date: Mon, 1 Mar 1999 12:11:13 -0600 Subject: Peerless anyone? Anyone interested in subject car. I know that at least one member owns one. Joe To: AlexanderJosephH@Waterloo.deere.com Subject: Peerless anyone? Joe, A friend just mentioned that there is a Peerless GT for sale, sounds like an awfully good deal to me. Maybe one of your Triumph members would be interested in something a little different? TR mechanicals, as I'm sure you know. Car is in Maryland, I am told it has a new black leather interior, nice white paint, street registered but also raced, but not overly modified (has roll bar but still has standard gas tanks, for instance). Has been in some car shows. Owner passed away & estate is trying to sell. I think the price is pretty negotiable. These cars are eligible for VSCCA here in the northeast (TR's are not). Might be a very reasonable way for someone just getting started in vintage, dual purpose race/rally/street car. If you know of anyone, let em know & I'll put them in touch with the seller. Regards, Mark ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From beeline@iline.com Mon Mar 1 06:40:13 1999 From: Richard Taylor To: , , Date: Mon, 01 Mar 1999 14:53:58 -0500 Subject: Re: Other Exhaustive Questions At 08:38 AM 3/1/99 -0500, Roger Beasley wrote: > I have a friend here in Ft. Myers, Fl who owns a Dynojet Dyno and he had >encouraged to put my TR4 vintage racecar on it. Wow! That is a really neat process. FWIW I offer the following: Last year when I rebuilt my mildly modified TR-4 motor, we put it on a dyno principally to work on the timing and carburation adjustments. In an effort to be somewhat street inoffensive (and HSR legal), the standard exhaust system I use is 2.25" piping with an el cheapo see-through Midas cherry bomb type muffle right behind the exhaust pipe hole in the frame. We did our horse power testing with the entire system in place. At the encouragement of one of the never ending string of "advisors," we tested the system after taking the muffler and tail pipe off. We found no discernable difference in horsepower. But keep in mind that we did all of our HP testing at 5500 RPMs. I expect that exhaust volocities and pressures increase precipitiously as you guys go north from there. If I had known about the crayola trick, I would have loved to have tried it. Richard Taylor Atlanta From beeline@iline.com Mon Mar 1 06:40:13 1999 From: Susan Hensley To: Friends of Triumph Date: Mon, 01 Mar 1999 14:31:54 -0600 Subject: Exhaustive thanks! Hi all! I just wanted to say thanks for all of the advice about what to run behind my header on my race Spit Tristan. Well, I got it all, from "the shortest pipe you can use" to "the longest pipe you can use." %) What advice was consistent, however, was to test out assumptions on a chassis dyno and find what works best for my specific application. What I did not get, however, was any preference for a muffler other than possibly a cherry bomb. Straight pipe seems to be the way to go. SuperTrapp was recommended by a couple people, but they also drove on the street. Since I don't have that restriction, I think I will leave mine off. Think I'll put a full pipe on it, dyno it, and snip the pipe off until I get optimum result. The race engine was putting out 104 hp at the rear wheels, so this more stock engine with a much less trick head should be doing something like 85-90 hp or so (if that :). On a totally different note (exhaust note, get it!?), I got moved in to the new-to-me house this weekend!! It's awesome! It is on Lake Ray Hubbard in east Dallas, and the sunrise from the greatroom and deck overlooking the lake was just spectacular! Hard to believe I could find something so nice for so reasonable as a first-time house. I just have the never-ending battle with the spiders... Elliott (street Spit) is lost in the large two-car garage (soon to be filled with all of my garage stuff I didn't get around to moving this weekend -- includes about 4 engine blocks -- ohhh, my back!) and will soon be joined by Tristan and the yet-unnamed Van Diemen of Phil's. If any of ya'll are down this way, you are welcome to come over! (Shoot me an email in advance.) Keep Triumphing, Susan :) From beeline@iline.com Mon Mar 1 06:40:13 1999 From: TR3197@aol.com To: TRBILBO@aol.com, fot@autox.team.net Date: Tue, 2 Mar 1999 00:14:25 EST Subject: Re: Re: Yet another nomination I love the confluences in life. Answered plea for hood and turns out to be Mr. Frymark. If he could wait until June, I'll bet we could transport my hood by one of the several Californians attending the MG'TR Challenge at Mid-Ohio. I suspect that Billy Burroughs can find suitable hood, however. Mr. Frymark said he had a good contact....and I believe him. Joe In a message dated 3/1/99 9:43:32 AM, you wrote: < Received: from rly-zb02.mx.aol.com (rly-zb02.mail.aol.com [172.31.41.2]) by air-zb04.mail.aol.com (v56.26) with SMTP; Sun, 28 Feb 1999 23:43:32 -0500 Received: from triumph.cs.utah.edu (triumph.cs.utah.edu [155.99.188.52]) by rly-zb02.mx.aol.com (8.8.8/8.8.5/AOL-4.0.0) with ESMTP id XAA12477; Sun, 28 Feb 1999 23:43:27 -0500 (EST) From: TRBILBO@aol.com Received: from imo17.mx.aol.com (imo17.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.7]) by triumph.cs.utah.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id VAA15475 for ; Sun, 28 Feb 1999 21:44:50 -0700 (MST) Received: from TRBILBO@aol.com by imo17.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id DFSEa03211; Sun, 28 Feb 1999 23:43:11 +1900 (EST) Message-ID: <719e3363.36da1adf@aol.com> Date: Sun, 28 Feb 1999 23:43:11 EST To: JFrymark@aol.com, Gt6steve@aol.com, FOT@autox.team.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Yet another nomination Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Windows 95 sub 76 >> From beeline@iline.com Mon Mar 1 06:40:13 1999 From: TR3197@aol.com To: fot@autox.team.net Date: Tue, 2 Mar 1999 00:14:54 EST Subject: Fwd: triumphs@autox.team.net digest #1527 Mon Mar 1 02:35:01 MST 1999 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --part0_920351694_boundary Content-ID: <0_920351694@inet_out.mail.aol.com.1> Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII --part0_920351694_boundary Content-ID: <0_920351694@inet_out.mail.autox.team.net.2> Content-type: message/rfc822 Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Content-disposition: inline Return-Path: Received: from rly-zc04.mx.aol.com (rly-zc04.mail.aol.com [172.31.33.4]) by air-zc03.mail.aol.com (v56.26) with SMTP; Mon, 01 Mar 1999 04:51:31 -0500 Received: from triumph.cs.utah.edu (triumph.cs.utah.edu [155.99.188.52]) by rly-zc04.mx.aol.com (8.8.8/8.8.5/AOL-4.0.0) with ESMTP id EAA26824; Mon, 1 Mar 1999 04:51:17 -0500 (EST) Received: (from mjb@localhost) by triumph.cs.utah.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id CAA23779 for realtriumphs-digest; Mon, 1 Mar 1999 02:35:01 -0700 (MST) Date: Mon, 1 Mar 1999 02:35:01 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <199903010935.CAA23779@triumph.cs.utah.edu> X-Authentication-Warning: triumph.cs.utah.edu: mjb set sender to owner-triumphs using -f From: triumphs-owner@autox.team.net Reply-to: triumphs-owner@autox.team.net Errors-to: triumphs-owner@autox.team.net Subject: triumphs@autox.team.net digest #1527 Mon Mar 1 02:35:01 MST 1999 To: undisclosed-recipients:; Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: multipart/mixed; boundary="part1_920351694_boundary" --part1_920351694_boundary Content-ID: <0_920351694@inet_out.mail.autox.team.net.3> Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII [Only the first part of this message is displayed. The entire message has been turned into a text attachment, which you can retrieve by selecting Download. Once downloaded, open it with a word processor or text editor for reading.] triumphs-digest #1527 Mon Mar 1 02:35:01 MST 1999 Collection of mail from triumphs@autox.team.net list. Mark J. Bradakis, Digest Coordinator Send submissions to triumphs@autox.team.net Send requests to majordomo@autox.team.net e.g in the BODY of a message to majordomo@autox.team.net put unsubscribe triumphs-digest Articles sent to the triumphs-owner and majordomo address and address changes sent to the whole list will be tossed into the bit bucket. Contents: Re: carpet set (Jean.Rouleaux) TR3B Seats ("Sumner Weisman") TR3B seats -- which ones are they? (Andrew Mace) 3A: was occasional seat leather? (John Middlesworth) Re: TR3B Seats ("Brad Kahler") SLEEVED THERMOSTATS !!!!!!!!!!!!! (WBabbitt) TR6 for sale... no, not MINE! (Pete & Aprille Chadwell) Digest? ("Craig P. Della Penna") Re: Digest? (Jim Higgins) Re: Radio For TR6 ("James H. Davis, Jr.") ? Technique for installing gaitor wire tie ? ("Brad Kahler") advertising (Fred Thomas) Re: TR6 Brake Problems (Randall Young) Re: was occasional seat leather? ("Robert Van and Ann Cross") Re: 3A: was occasional seat leather? (Andrew Mace) RE: Oil Pressure Gauge Lamp (Day.John) Re: 3A: was occasional seat leather? (Joe Curry) RE: humour (Day.John) Bits and Pieces for sale (bollen) Re: Ammeter resistance (Randall Young) Re: Battery Recommendations Wanted. (Randall Young) Re: advertising (Randall Young) Re: Ammeter resistance (DANMAS) Re: stanchion plates (Bush4brits) Re: ? Technique for installing gaitor wire tie ? (MRobe33243) TR3B seats -- which ones are they? ("Mark Gendron") Re: stanchion plates (Bush4brits) Re: Ammeter resistance (Randall Young) Re my Bits and Pieces (bollen) Spitfire Database upload completed (Joe Curry) Re: TR3B seats -- which ones are they? (Henry Frye) Re. Overheating Dolomite 1850 (john_mcmaster) A few TR4 parts (JIM_WALLACE) Re: SLEEVED T --part1_920351694_boundary Content-ID: <0_920351694@inet_out.mail.autox.team.net.4> Content-type: text/plain; name="triumphs.txt" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Content-disposition: inline triumphs-digest #1527 Mon Mar 1 02:35:01 MST 1999 Collection of mail from triumphs@autox.team.net list. Mark J. Bradakis, Digest Coordinator Send submissions to triumphs@autox.team.net Send requests to majordomo@autox.team.net e.g in the BODY of a message to majordomo@autox.team.net put unsubscribe triumphs-digest Articles sent to the triumphs-owner and majordomo address and address changes sent to the whole list will be tossed into the bit bucket. Contents: Re: carpet set (Jean.Rouleaux) TR3B Seats ("Sumner Weisman") TR3B seats -- which ones are they? (Andrew Mace) 3A: was occasional seat leather? (John Middlesworth) Re: TR3B Seats ("Brad Kahler") SLEEVED THERMOSTATS !!!!!!!!!!!!! (WBabbitt) TR6 for sale... no, not MINE! (Pete & Aprille Chadwell) Digest? ("Craig P. Della Penna") Re: Digest? (Jim Higgins) Re: Radio For TR6 ("James H. Davis, Jr.") ? Technique for installing gaitor wire tie ? ("Brad Kahler") advertising (Fred Thomas) Re: TR6 Brake Problems (Randall Young) Re: was occasional seat leather? ("Robert Van and Ann Cross") Re: 3A: was occasional seat leather? (Andrew Mace) RE: Oil Pressure Gauge Lamp (Day.John) Re: 3A: was occasional seat leather? (Joe Curry) RE: humour (Day.John) Bits and Pieces for sale (bollen) Re: Ammeter resistance (Randall Young) Re: Battery Recommendations Wanted. (Randall Young) Re: advertising (Randall Young) Re: Ammeter resistance (DANMAS) Re: stanchion plates (Bush4brits) Re: ? Technique for installing gaitor wire tie ? (MRobe33243) TR3B seats -- which ones are they? ("Mark Gendron") Re: stanchion plates (Bush4brits) Re: Ammeter resistance (Randall Young) Re my Bits and Pieces (bollen) Spitfire Database upload completed (Joe Curry) Re: TR3B seats -- which ones are they? (Henry Frye) Re. Overheating Dolomite 1850 (john_mcmaster) A few TR4 parts (JIM_WALLACE) Re: SLEEVED THERMOSTATS !!!!!!!!!!!!! (Henry Frye) Re: TR3B seats -- which ones are they? (Andrew Mace) OD gear oil- info from Redline (Tony Rhodes) TR6 Stromberg carb question (Tim Gaines) Clarification - Re: TR3B seats (Henry Frye) Re: Off topic - Saturday night Brit Coms ("David Hill") RE: tachometer question ("Antony P. Norris") TR3 rear springs (fogbro1) Re: stanchion plates (Randall Young) OD transmission tunnel cover plate available (Tony Rhodes) Re: TR6 Stromberg carb question ("Jack Clark") TR6 Stromberg carb question vacation (Fred Thomas) Pale Yellow Paint ("Paul Schneider") Triumph Books ("Paul Schneider") Oil for TR6 transmission? ("Ronald A. Dowty") Re: Oil for TR6 transmission? (Aaron Johnson) Anybody want a daily update of new Triumph listings at eBay? (skip) TR6/weber 32/36 conversion (alice and mitch) tr6 clutch master cylinder & bpnw (Peter Zaborski) Overdrive Conversion (Peter Cebalo) An interesting auto website ("jonmac") Coffee Paint Codes? - 948 Herald (Bill Davies) FTP archives available on ftp.team.net WWW access through http://www.team.net/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 28 Feb 1999 12:33:14 +0100 From: Jean.Rouleaux@skynet.be Subject: Re: carpet set Hello Gary, I recently replaced the carpets in my TR6 , I guess you speek about TR6 interior,and yesterday I replaced the furflex door seals. The overhanging vinyl parts go over the joining line of the outer and inner door sills.First glue the long carpet part to tht inner sill, do no= t apply glue to the vinyl part at this stage,after that when dry measure the vinyl part to fit over the sill edges with the outside not lower than the door seal,mostly the vinyl is wider than necessary,cut the vinyl to fit and glue it in place.It will help to hold the door seal in place when hitting it while boarding the car.Carefully check the furflex as the clamps become damaged when removing.=09 Good luck and regards Jean R from Europe 1970 TR6PI ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Feb 1999 09:16:08 -0500 From: "Sumner Weisman" Subject: TR3B Seats Andy, My TR3B, commission # TSF 263, has the flat bottom pans. The seats, whic= h I think are original, are vinyl and still in pretty good condition. Rememb= er, there were two batches of TR3B's built. The first batch (TSF) had the TR= 4 all-synchro transmission but the TR-3A engine. The second batch (TCF) ad= ded the TR4 engine (with the oil filler on the rear rather than the front). According to TRF, cars of the first batch were identical to TR3A's, but that's not true because many (or possibly all) had the TR4 transmission. A good guess might be that the first batch had the TR3A seats and the sec= ond batch had the TR4 seats. Sumner Weisman 62 TR3B Date: Sat, 27 Feb 1999 11:43:44 -0500 (EST) From: Andrew Mace Subject: TR3B seats -- which ones are they? Quick question for owners of original TR3B models: Does your car have the TR3A seats, with the flat bottom pan, or does it have the early TR4 seats, with that extra "dent" in the bottom pan? And does anyone have original leather faced seats in a TR3B, or were most all of them vinyl? Perhaps responses should include commission numbers, just in case some sort of pattern develops! :-) - --Andy ------------------------------ Date: =09Sun, 28 Feb 1999 09:25:10 -0500 (EST) From: John Middlesworth Subject: 3A: was occasional seat leather? On the TR3A model, if you ordered seats in leather, was the occasional seat cushion supplied in leather as well? John Middlesworth ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Feb 1999 08:44:17 -0600 From: "Brad Kahler" Subject: Re: TR3B Seats Andy & Sumner, Doing a side by side comparison of TR4 and TR3A seat frames there are noticeable differences. The most obvious difference is the large rectangular dent in the the TR4 seat bottom pans. The second difference that I am aware of is the distance between holes for mounting the seat to= the adjuster tracks. The TR4 seat pan uses two different different seat adjuster tracks, inner and outer. The outer one has a distance of 14.25"= between mounting studs that stick up into the seat pans while the inner track has 13.75" between mounting studs. The TR3A requires 13" between mounting studs. Now, the where the seat adjuster tracks bolt to the tubs there is also a difference. The TR3A has 14.5" between the mounting holes in the body tub where as the TR4 has 15" between mounting studs. If they used the TR4 style of seats and adjusters in the TR3B at any time they would have had to relocate two of the mounting holes for each seat. Hopefully someone can tell us what type of seats and seat tracks are used in their later TR3B. So for those of you trying to locate the proper seats for your project be= it TR3A/B or early TR4 will need to also find the proper seat adjuster track= s. That in itself might prove to be more difficult to find than the seats themselves, right Brian S. !! Hope this helps. Brad (Lincoln Nebraska 402-464-1502) My Web Site Http://www.141.com/triumphs (updated 2/15/99) ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Feb 1999 09:51:56 EST From: WBabbitt@aol.com Subject: SLEEVED THERMOSTATS !!!!!!!!!!!!! Anyone notice that the Moss spring magazine has TR2-4A SLEEVED thermostat= s for sale? Definately a step in the right direction (although they're still about $2= 5 too pricey). Bill Babbitt TR3A in a bag (hopefully not for ever) Gales Ferry, CT ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Feb 1999 07:51:24 -0800 From: Pete & Aprille Chadwell Subject: TR6 for sale... no, not MINE! An e-mail acquaintance of mine is selling his TR6, he's near Knoxville, Tennessee. I've never seen the car, have no financial interest, yadda, yadda, yadda.= .. I told him I'd post his description to the list so here goes: 1973 Triumph TR6 Completely Restored!!! New Convertible Top New Windshield New Stainless Steel Exhaust System with Header New Wiring Harness-completely rewired front and back Completely New Interior- Carpet, Upholstery, Door Panels, Gearbox Cover New Floor Boards Both Sides New Floor Mats Dash Stripped and Refinished New Tires New Front End Components; Upper/Lower Ball Joints, Inner/Outer Tie Rods, Upper/Lower Wishbone Assemblies, Wheel Bearings. New Front Anti Sway Bar Electronic Ignition Conversion and Sport High Performance Ignition Coil New Heater and Heater Hoses New Differential Mounts Reinforced with Welded Supports New U-Joints (all six U-Joints replaced) New Rear Springs New Plugs, Valves Adjusted, Timing Set, Carbs (Dual Carbs) Adjusted Oil Filter Adapter Kit New Air Cleaner Elements New German "Hella Horns" Tonneau Cover (not new) New Bra New Soft Top Stowage Cover All lights and gauges work. Engine tests out strong. All metal solid, no bondo. Factory Repair Manual and Parts Catalogues. Car runs great and is in Excellent condition. $12,000 Firm. Serious Inquiries Only. Show by Appointment. Call 931-484-2107 Ask for Dave ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Feb 1999 11:08:14 -0500 From: "Craig P. Della Penna" Subject: Digest? Is there a digest format for this listserve? Thanks in advance. Craig Della Penna Agawam, MA - -- 65 TR4 Surrey Top, O/D, Chrome Wire-Wheels. CT36553 LO ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Feb 1999 11:24:03 -0500 From: Jim Higgins Subject: Re: Digest? Craig, Here's the address of the search engine for the site: http://www.listquest.com/lq/search.html?ln=3Dtriumphs The site for all the lists: http://listquest.com/ Hope this helps, Jim ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Feb 1999 11:29:01 -0500 From: "James H. Davis, Jr." Subject: Re: Radio For TR6 Philip, I believe Irv is correct that radios were a dealer installed option. = An acquaintance who worked at World Cars, the BL dealership in Columbus, GA = told me that many options, such as radios, air conditioning and luggage racks = were either installed at the dealership or in the case of Jacksonville, FL POE= , sometimes at the importer/distributer. I'm reading the original window sticker for CF37325U now and the only option listed is a Tonneau Cover for $45.00. When I bought the car from i= t's original owner it had a British Leyland AM/FM mono radio, presumably inst= alled by the dealer or importer. I can't find the radio right now, but it seems= like it had chrome trim around the face with black knobs. Jim Davis Fortson, GA CF38690UO CF37325U Irv Korey wrote: > > From: Philip Smith > > > Going through all my papers, brochures, I found information for "Cust= om > > Autosound" Supposedly they sell radios that will fit the TR6, center = dash > > support. Anyway, they offer several radios, of which you have the opt= ion > of > > either a Black face, or a Crome face, and I think Triumph written on = it. > My > > question is, was the original TR6 Cromed face or Black. I have never = seen > an > > original. Has anyone on the list bought a radio from them? Were you > > satisfied with their service and product? > > My 74 TR6 did not come delivered with a factory radio. The dealer insta= lled > a Boman Astronix AM-FM 8 Track (!!!) with a chrome face plate. I have t= he > original window sticker from my car, and there is no mention of a radio= . My > guess is that TR radios of the era were dealer installed. > > Irv Korey > 74 TR6 CF22767U > 66 TR4A CT52499 > Highland Park, IL ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Feb 1999 10:35:31 -0600 From: "Brad Kahler" Subject: ? Technique for installing gaitor wire tie ? Listers, I'm finishing up the installation of my steering rack and was wondering i= f there is any special technique for twisting the wire around the large end= of the rubber gaitor on the drivers side. It looks like you would just stic= k a screw driver through the two loops and start twisting but rather than having to do it twice I thought I would find out how to do it correctly t= he first time! TIA Brad (Lincoln Nebraska 402-464-1502) My Web Site Http://www.141.com/triumphs (updated 2/15/99) ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Feb 1999 11:56:55 -0500 From: Fred Thomas Subject: advertising Listers, since I now have a hardtop (orig) for my T/R 3-A, if I decide to sell my car can I now advertised it like that so called American sports car, =3D numbers match & with both tops =3D then ask twice the goi= ng price ?? "FT" ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Feb 1999 14:16:28 -0800 From: Randall Young Subject: Re: TR6 Brake Problems The problem with that method is it assumes the handbrake cable is properl= y adjusted. If the cable is stretched slightly (not unusual on older cars)= , then the suggested procedure could result in dragging brakes, which can overheat and ruin drums, wheel bearings, the whole car, etc. Not worth the risk, IMO ! I'd stick with the factory procedure ! Also, I'm not sure about a TR6, but on a TR3 the adjuster works on both shoes. Curiously enough, the adjustment procedure for the early Lockheed brakes starts with applying the brakes to center the shoes, but the later Girling brakes (which function identically to the Lockheed), do not. I m= ake it a habit to apply the brakes hard after doing an adjustment, and rechec= k the adjustment to make sure centering is not an issue. (On all drum brake= s, not just TR) Randall "Radley, Jack" wrote: > Thanks to everyone for the suggestions regarding rear brake adjustments= . > > I went looking in the VTR internet site and found an article on a > shortcut approach to making the rear brake adjustments. The article > suggests engaging the parking brake to the point of 3-4 clicks and then > tightening the adjuster until snug. Sounds easy enough. > > Any experience out there on this? > > Page was found at http://www.vtr.org/maintain/brake-adjustment.html > > > Jack Radley > 76TR6 ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Feb 1999 11:59:16 -0500 From: "Robert Van and Ann Cross" Subject: Re: was occasional seat leather? John Middlesworth asked if the occasional seat in a TR3 was leather. Min= e is leather and I think it is original. Unfortunately, the ravages of tim= e have taken its toll and it now needs recovering. Bob Van TR3A 56407L ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Feb 1999 13:06:44 -0500 (EST) From: Andrew Mace Subject: Re: 3A: was occasional seat leather? On Sun, 28 Feb 1999, John Middlesworth wrote: > On the TR3A model, if you ordered seats in leather, was the occasional > seat cushion supplied in leather as well? John, I would assume so. The original spare parts catalog, under "accessories," lists the OCCASIONAL SEAT ASSEMBLY (and parts thereof) in both leather trim and vynide trim -- both squab and cushion. - --Andy * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Andrew Mace, President and * * 10/Herald/Vitesse (Sports 6) Consultant * * Vintage Triumph Register * * amace@unix2.nysed.gov * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Feb 1999 13:20:34 -0500 From: Day.John@fin.gc.ca Subject: RE: Oil Pressure Gauge Lamp Jack: if your light is 'dim', it is on its highest setting, the other two Lucas settings being 'off' and 'flicker' :-). JD When I bought my 3A last year, the mechanic said it needed a new headligh= t; the original one had "not so much a 'beam' as an 'aura'"! =09-----Original Message----- =09From:=09Radley, Jack [SMTP:JackR@SHRIVERCO.COM] =09Sent:=09February 25, 1999 3:46 PM =09To:=09'triumphs@autox.team.net' =09Subject:=09Oil Pressure Gauge Lamp =09Anyone have experience with the lamps in the gauges on a TR6? =09My oil pressure lamp is dim which makes me think that it has slipped out =09of its seating in the gauge. The lamp appears to be lit, just dim. =09Does this make sense? I thought I would try the list before I strain my =09(sore) neck looking for the answer. =09Thanks, =09Jack Radley =0976TR6 ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Feb 1999 10:19:44 -0800 From: Joe Curry Subject: Re: 3A: was occasional seat leather? Andrew Mace wrote: > > On Sun, 28 Feb 1999, John Middlesworth wrote: > > > On the TR3A model, if you ordered seats in leather, was the occasiona= l > > seat cushion supplied in leather as well? > > John, I would assume so. The original spare parts catalog, under > "accessories," lists the OCCASIONAL SEAT ASSEMBLY (and parts thereof) i= n > both leather trim and vynide trim -- both squab and cushion. > > --Andy So, I guess the answer to the question is: "Occasionally", right? 8^) Sorry, I couldn't resist! Joe - -- "If you can't excel with talent, triumph with effort." -- Dave Weinbaum in National Enquirer ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Feb 1999 13:36:21 -0500 From: Day.John@fin.gc.ca Subject: RE: humour ...and as the woman rounds the corner, she hits a female dog (no puppies = in sight, or it would be too horrible) which was also in the middle of the road!:-) JD =09-----Original Message----- =09From:=09Fred Thomas [SMTP:vafred@erols.com] =09Sent:=09February 27, 1999 9:20 PM =09To:=09triumphs@autox.team.net; spitfires@autox.team.net =09Subject:=09humour =09Typical male/female greeting! =09A man is driving up a steep, narrow road. =09A woman is driving down the same road, in the opposite direction. =09As they meet each other, the woman leans out the window and yells =09...."PIG!" =09The man immediately leans out the window and answers......."BITCH!" =09They continue on their way, and as the man rounds the next corner, =09he runs straight into a 300 lb. pig standing in the middle of the road. =09 ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Feb 1999 13:52:36 -0500 From: bollen@ibm.net Subject: Bits and Pieces for sale After selling my beloved TR6 I have some stuff for sale, also some TR7/8 stuff. Tr7/8 Black door panels and rear panel in good shape $50 TR7/8 Convertible top frame( have you seen what they cost?) $ 150 Rest is TR6 stuff Tonneau Cover in good shape but zip needs fixing $ 50 Water pump, 3/8" pulley $ 25 Repro fuel pump kept as spare $ 10 Bosch Super Blue 12v coil unused $ 15 Carb rebuild kit for 175 Cd2 or CDS2 inc, diapraghms $ 10 (no guarantee but there is one hell of a lot of gaskets, valves, washers etc. New kit is $45) Chrome valve cover (TR250 but fits TR6) $10 Aluminum trim ring not NOS but in very good shape, one ding about 1/4" long, very narrow, like a deep scratch) $ 15 New ground strap for steering column flex joint $1 Secondary Hood release cable -brand new $ 4 Brand new heater hoses from engine compt- firewall $ 8 the pair (still wrapped) Starter Solenoid almost new( it was the starter motor had gone) $ 25 Three wheels, straight, painted with Moss silver, with Michelin 185X redlines. Two tires are good, one is serviceable. The wheels have no rust or banged up rims. What am I offered? One wheel. painted silver, straight $ 40 One fan extension adaptor $ 10 Trunk carpet, black=09=09=09=09=09 $ 5 One set of lugnut washers unused $ 4 One HAYNES manual - what am I bid? One Bentley Manual in loose leaf binder form,oily in places, but all there for the bargain price of $ 25 One new Muffler, but pipes were welded to it.Free if you pay shipping. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Feb 1999 15:32:37 -0800 From: Randall Young Subject: Re: Ammeter resistance Dan : I don't mind at all, so feel free to post anything of mine you like ! I'm sure I'll find a local TR6 ammeter, but I probably won't have the cha= nce to ask until next month's club meeting, and probably won't get the unit unti= l the meeting after that, on April 28. I assume this means you still want to know the internal resistance of a T= R6 ammeter ? Randall DANMAS@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 2/27/99 2:17:43 PM Eastern Standard Time, > randallyoung@earthlink.net writes: > > > If anyone is still interested, I can probably borrow & measure a TR6 > > ammeter, but it might take a while. > > Randall, > > Thanks for the info! I have up-dated my web page to add your post (hop= e you > don't mind). > > http://members.aol.com/DANMAS2/ammeters.htm > > If you don't get a TR6 ammeter to measure, let me know and I'll send yo= u mine. > > Dan Masters, > Alcoa, TN ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Feb 1999 15:47:04 -0800 From: Randall Young Subject: Re: Battery Recommendations Wanted. I've been pretty happy with Delco and Exide (who makes many of the batteries sold under other names). All of them have a limited shelf life, so its important to buy a fresh one (and obviously the store wants to sell you the oldest one in stock, which may already be a year or more old if they don't sell very many). I make it a habit to buy where they sell lots of batteries, and I can pick the one with the highest serial number off the shelf. Randall Bob Bachman wrote: > I gave up on Die-Hard battteries some time back and tried Interstate > batteries. My > experience with Interstate has been so-so. > > Anyone have recommendations, comparisons, etc.? > > Bob ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Feb 1999 16:27:35 -0800 From: Randall Young Subject: Re: advertising Weeel, if you advertise "numbers match", eveyone will look at you funny (since they didn't from the factory). And, you can ask any price you wan= t, you just may not get a sale Actually, the car adverstised most around here with "both tops" is German= , not American. IMO, it always sells for twice what it's worth As a side note : I have a friend who was restoring one of those American "sports cars", and he tells me there are more of them today with "origina= l" fuel injection than were ever delivered by the factory ! Seems the facto= ry forgot to keep track of which cars had it, there were lots of spare parts made, and it's a very desirable option ! Randall Fred Thomas wrote: > Listers, since I now have a hardtop (orig) for my T/R 3-A, if I decide > to sell my car can I now advertised it like that so called American > sports car, =3D numbers match & with both tops =3D then ask twice the g= oing > price ?? "FT" ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Feb 1999 15:01:57 EST From: DANMAS@aol.com Subject: Re: Ammeter resistance In a message dated 2/28/99 2:01:56 PM Eastern Standard Time, randallyoung@earthlink.net writes: > I'm sure I'll find a local TR6 ammeter, but I probably won't have the c= hance > to > ask until next month's club meeting, and probably won't get the unit u= ntil > the > meeting after that, on April 28. > > I assume this means you still want to know the internal resistance of = a TR6 > ammeter ? Randall, I don't for myself, as I have replaced the ammeter with voltmeters in bot= h of my cars, but I'm sure there are others on here that are replacing their alternators with GM units that would like to know. If you can come up with the numbers, I'll post it. Dan Masters, Alcoa, TN ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Feb 1999 15:11:39 EST From: Bush4brits@aol.com Subject: Re: stanchion plates Hi Ken, I agree that it would be a nightmare trying to adapt the scuttle to fit t= he pre 60000 windshield assembly (with the pre 60000 adaptor plates included= ). If you're right, then I DO have the wrong stanchions and plates. What to do.....what to do. The stanchions are at the platers already. I could try to put a hold on i= t and get over to Carlisle and see what's there, OR I could just Dremel the wir= e and pins making a flush plate on the scuttle side like I mentioned earlier in= this thread. Just to recap.......your stanchions are flush on the scuttle side (no slo= t), and your adaptor plates are just pieces of FLAT metal with holes that lin= e up with the stanchion and are cut to fit the profile of the stanchion at the base, right? Bob Stahlbush 66 MGB GHN 3L 78708 60 TR3A TS 81398 L ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Feb 1999 15:11:15 EST From: MRobe33243@aol.com Subject: Re: ? Technique for installing gaitor wire tie ? Brad: The wire ties are just like the ties used in tieing steel rods, its called a pig tail. The pig tail is semi pointed at the tip and the shaft = is curved like a pig tail, the shaft is encased in a handle that allows the = shaft to turn on its axis. Join the looped ends together and twist the wire un= til snug. The tool can be used when replacing the rubber tie rod covers. The= tool should be available at most hard ware stores. Bob Roberts TR$ 35411CT PS Be the first kid on your block to own one!!! ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Feb 1999 11:37:29 -0800 From: "Mark Gendron" Subject: TR3B seats -- which ones are they? > Date: Sat, 27 Feb 1999 11:43:44 -0500 (EST) > From: Andrew Mace > > Does your car have the TR3A seats, with the flat bottom pan, or does it > have the early TR4 seats, with that extra "dent" in the bottom pan? > And does anyone have original leather faced seats in a TR3B, or were mo= st > all of them vinyl? The incorrect seats in my TR2 have black leather facings with white piping. The pleats are horizontal. The lower cushions use springs rather than foam. The seat pan has four horizontal pressings and two clips, and looks identical to the TR2/TR3 seat pan. I just assumed that these are later TR3 seats. . .perhaps they are from a TR4? ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Feb 1999 15:36:14 EST From: Bush4brits@aol.com Subject: Re: stanchion plates Hi Randall, I have a hard-bound spare parts catalogue as issued from Stanpart. While the cover says that it applies to "20 TR2, 3 & 3A" models, very lit= tle of the contents applies to post 60000 cars. In the section on windshield assemblies (plate AM), the corresponding commission number lists TS 32833 max.......nothing beyond it. Bob Stahlbush 66 MGB GHN 3L 78708 60 TR3A TS 81398 L ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Feb 1999 12:47:35 -0800 From: Randall Young Subject: Re: Ammeter resistance Ok, I'll post 'em on the list, when I get them. Anyone in SoCal want to loan me ammeters for a late TR3/4/250/6 ? I'll c= ome to you, within a reasonable distance of Long Beach. Randall ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Feb 1999 15:56:54 -0500 From: bollen@ibm.net Subject: Re my Bits and Pieces Forgot to mention prices don't include UPS or PO charges. Also forgot I have a smaller, leather after market steering wheel for the TR6 if anyone wants a bit more knee room. You just mount it with the 6 bolts holding the current wheel on. Cost me $60, sell for $10. Also two black headrests for $ 5 apiece. Foam is old inside, but the outside is fine, no rips etc. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Feb 1999 13:49:05 -0800 From: Joe Curry Subject: Spitfire Database upload completed The monthly upload of the Spit Database is complete. No new Pictures this month, because I lost all my photos in my recent crash. So send good photos of various Model Spitfires for future inclusion in the web site. Also, Please send any interesting and useful tips for the tips page. Finally, If you have a Spit that is not in the database (or that is in but the data is incorrect), please access the data entry page to get the proper information in there. http://home1.gte.net/spitlist/index.html Regards, Joe Curry - -- "If you can't excel with talent, triumph with effort." -- Dave Weinbaum in National Enquirer ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Feb 1999 17:02:55 -0500 From: Henry Frye Subject: Re: TR3B seats -- which ones are they? Andy, I have no way of knowing for sure if the seats that came with my car are original. I think they are, FWIT. The seat pans in TCF1927 have the "dents." BTW, can't we come up with a better name for the this, like indentations, or pressed channels, or ??? Seems my car has plenty of flaws without saying the seat pans have dents! ;-) The tattered remains of seat covering WAS Black Vynide, and that was confirmed by the BMIHT build certificate. At 11:43 AM 2/27/99 -0500, Andrew Mace wrote: > >Quick question for owners of original TR3B models: > >Does your car have the TR3A seats, with the flat bottom pan, or does it >have the early TR4 seats, with that extra "dent" in the bottom pan? > >And does anyone have original leather faced seats in a TR3B, or were mos= t >all of them vinyl? > >Perhaps responses should include commission numbers, just in case some >sort of pattern develops! :-) - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Henry Frye - thefryes@iconn.net - Connecticut, USA Stag MkI =09Getting Sorted Out TR3B =09Driver TR250 X 3=09The BIG Project - Will Be Worth the Wait Homepage=09http://members.iconn.net/thefryes/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 01 Mar 1999 09:03:17 +1000 From: john_mcmaster@dpa.act.gov.au Subject: Re. Overheating Dolomite 1850 Thanks to all those who provided some thoughts on my problem! Unfortunately, it's turned out to be a blown head gasket. Motor rebuild now on the way. Thanks again. John Mc '71 TR6 PI '76 Dolomite 1850 "Fast is First" ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Feb 1999 17:11:28 -0500 From: JIM_WALLACE@HP-Canada-om1.om.hp.com Subject: A few TR4 parts I have available the following: 1. Radiator drain tap, looks like Moss part # 660-000 for TR4A. I think what I really need is 660-010, as I have a TR3a. Can anyone advise whether where they thread into the rad, whether the thread si= ze is of a bigger diameter on 660-010? 2. Gearshift boot for a TR4, Moss #680-690. Again, what I need is on= e for a TR3a, which would be Moss #680-680. 3. Half a dozen or so extra Tenax fasteners, that go along the top o= f the windscreen. 4. Brass heater valve. The square part that the knob acts upon is slightly rounded, and I don't know if it's actually OK. (The knob wa= s missing so it's been turned with pliers or vice-grips.) It thus MAY require a bit of work but nothing's seized. For items 1 & 2, I need the TR3a versions, so please let me know if you have these, as I'd like to trade. For items 3 & 4, offer me some similar value part for my 3a and I'll= be happy. Regards, Jim Wallace jwallace@canada.hp.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Feb 1999 17:12:59 -0500 From: Henry Frye Subject: Re: SLEEVED THERMOSTATS !!!!!!!!!!!!! Bill, The 'stats Moss are selling are the ones we have talked about for some ti= me now. XK Unlimited makes them. I run one of these thermostats and a restrictor in the bypass hose with good results. At 09:51 AM 2/28/99 EST, WBabbitt@aol.com wrote: > >Anyone notice that the Moss spring magazine has TR2-4A SLEEVED thermosta= ts for >sale? >Definately a step in the right direction (although they're still about $= 25 too >pricey) - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Henry Frye - thefryes@iconn.net - Connecticut, USA Stag MkI =09Getting Sorted Out TR3B =09Driver TR250 X 3=09The BIG Project - Will Be Worth the Wait Homepage=09http://members.iconn.net/thefryes/ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Feb 1999 17:20:12 -0500 (EST) From: Andrew Mace Subject: Re: TR3B seats -- which ones are they? On Sun, 28 Feb 1999, Mark Gendron wrote: > The incorrect seats in my TR2 have black leather facings with white > piping. The pleats are horizontal. The lower cushions use springs > rather than foam. The seat pan has four horizontal pressings and two > clips, and looks identical to the TR2/TR3 seat pan. I just assumed that > these are later TR3 seats. . .perhaps they are from a TR4? No, yours sound like pre-TR4 seats. The TR4 seat PAN is about the same overall shape, but the horizontal pressings are "interrupted" by a large,= squarish "footwell" (not really, but I can't think of a better term at the moment) more or less in the center of the pan. - --Andy * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Andrew Mace, President and * * 10/Herald/Vitesse (Sports 6) Consultant * * Vintage Triumph Register * * amace@unix2.nysed.gov * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Feb 1999 17:28:47 -0500 From: Tony Rhodes Subject: OD gear oil- info from Redline I emailed Redline and asked about the GL-4, GL-5 gear oils and corrosion,= and their recommendation re: what oil to use with the OD. My original manual for a TR4A says to use 70-90 EP gear oil. I know that other manuals say = something else for the SAME OD! Anyway here are their answers: GL-5 brass corrosion. Only a problem at elevated temperature (300 degree= s), but the redline GL-5 does NOT cause corrosion of brass at anytemp. BUT it wi= ll discolor the brass at high temps. NOTE: Most street transmissions never = reach that high a temp, so any GL-5 ought to be OK. About the best match for 1967-era 70-90 EP gear oil? They recommend the= ir MT-90. -Tony ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Feb 1999 17:41:28 -0500 From: Tim Gaines Subject: TR6 Stromberg carb question I just finished dismantling and cleaning the two Strombergs on my 1974 TR6 purchased in October. The PO gave me one carb kit (in a plastic bag) and I bought another, but the PO's kit did not have a gasket for the starter box/choke assembly which the other kit had. Neither carb had the gasket when I took them apart. One of my catalogs shows the gasket but does not have a part number for it, and another one doesn't sh= ow it at all. I decided to leave them off. I cranked up the engine for the first time a couple of hours ago, and it caught right up and sounded pretty smooth with no adjustments yet, but the forward carb is leaking gas and it appears to be from the starter box. So it seems that the gasket might really be necessary even though it wasn't there before and there was no leaking before. Do any of you out there remember whether your manual choke Strombergs have the gasket? And is there a way to buy another one without getting the whole rebuild kit? Thanks for any help. Tim Gaines 1974 TR6 1980 Spitfire ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Feb 1999 18:14:18 -0500 From: Henry Frye Subject: Clarification - Re: TR3B seats Greetings listers; To those of you following this thread, after deliberation with Andy and Brad, I retract a portion my original statement. The "dents" Andy is talking about are large, squarish indentations in the center of the bottom of the pan. My TCF series TR3B does NOT have the den= ts. Whew... That's all I needed, more things for people to criticize... ;-) >Andy, > >I have no way of knowing for sure if the seats that came with my car are original. I think they are, FWIT. > >The seat pans in TCF1927 have the "dents." BTW, can't we come up with a better name for the this, like indentations, or pressed channels, or ??? Seems my car has plenty of flaws without saying the seat pans have dents! ;-) > >The tattered remains of seat covering WAS Black Vynide, and that was confirmed by the BMIHT build certificate. > >At 11:43 AM 2/27/99 -0500, Andrew Mace wrote: >> >>Quick question for owners of original TR3B models: >> >>Does your car have the TR3A seats, with the flat bottom pan, or does it= >>have the early TR4 seats, with that extra "dent" in the bottom pan? >> >>And does anyone have original leather faced seats in a TR3B, or were mo= st >>all of them vinyl? >> >>Perhaps responses should include commission numbers, just in case some >>sort of pattern develops! :-) ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Feb 1999 23:32:46 -0000 From: "David Hill" Subject: Re: Off topic - Saturday night Brit Coms >Hi, Ken I can't recall having heard Rowan Atkinson use this terminology but the Dwarfers are famed for it. The derivations are..... Smeg head =3D Idiot, halfwit, jerk, etc. Smegging=3D blasted, cursed, damned, bloody-as in 'Smegging Hell'. Smeg=3D damn, blast, hell, god, etc,-as in 'Oh Smeg' You may not want to know the root when you find out what it is but you di= d ask.... Main Entry: smegma Pronunciation: 'smeg-m& Function: noun Etymology: New Latin, from Latin, detergent, soap, from Greek smEgma, fro= m smEchein to wash off, clean Date: circa 1819 : the secretion of a sebaceous gland; specifically : the cheesy sebaceous matter that collects between the glans penis and the foreskin or around t= he clitoris and labia minora. Even in a stage interview, when asked for their explanation of the meanin= g of the epithet, the Red Dwarf actors looked embarrasssed and crawled off = set on their knees. Can't really wonder, can you. Incidentally, Smeg is also a brand name for kitchen goods-Danish I believ= e. Yours, Dave Hill, UK. >Since etymology seems to be a recurring theme, can anyone out there vent= ure >a guess as to the origins of (or define) the British slang "Smage?" (Sm= a g >ee) I have heard Rowan Atkinson and the characters in Red Dwarf use it = to >indicate an idiot or fool, but the intonations seem to say more, like "a >damned fool." I have also heard it used as an active pronoun, like "you >schmegging idiot." I take it is that it is one of those words (phrases?= ) >that is emerging from profanity towards acceptance. What exactly is a >"Smage" (Sc Z Maag) or Smegging (S m hee n ing)? > > >Just curious. > >Ken Gano >kengano@advant.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Feb 1999 23:37:43 -0000 From: "Antony P. Norris" Subject: RE: tachometer question Sorry Sujit, The Voltage regulator only feeds the Fuel and Temp gauges on the Stag, so you can't blame that. The tacho is on it's own. You could check it's connection to the ballast resistor, as some joker wired mine up to the wr= ong side once. Antony P. Norris - Skipton, UK ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Feb 1999 19:11:39 -0500 From: fogbro1@impop.bellatlantic.net Subject: TR3 rear springs Randall, Paul and all, Thanks for the info on rear spring spacers/axle height above frame. It's now pretty obvious the the new springs I fitted to my TR3 when it was but a bare frame, are so still that they don't provide clearance between the axle tubes and the frame even thought the body's now on the car. I have the original used springs and will probably fit them before the driving season here in Western PA. My humble opinion is that the present arrangement is downright unsafe since the rear wheels cannot travel in a downward direction at a bump in the road, of which we have many where I live. I dred the work. I do not bend as easily as I did when I got my first TR3 in 1959 and it's a lot harder to get up off the garage floor too!! I've read the bit on stanchions and can confirm the if there are only two threaded holes in the bodywork, the late non Dnuz type are required. I have some in my basement collection of stuff if the party in need wants to get in touch. $40 including US shipping would handle it. The could use a rechrome, of course. Back to the spring thing: it's fortunate that I removed and greased the "D" bolts when I had the thing dismantled. At least I'll be able to remove and replace the springs without lifting the body. If anyone is still reading this, I will have a TR3 overdrive transmission for sale soon. If you're interested, please get in touch. Thanks again to all. Ed Woods ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Feb 1999 17:30:30 -0800 From: Randall Young Subject: Re: stanchion plates Bob : As I posted before (I think), I mis-read the book. Although it lists "stanchions and bolt attachments", it does not give any changeover points= . I made the (possibly incorrect, but I doubt it) assumption that these are t= he ones found on post-TS60000 cars, without realizing the book didn't say so. (lo= ok on page 99) My apologies Randall Bush4brits@aol.com wrote: > Hi Randall, > I have a hard-bound spare parts catalogue as issued from Stanpart. > While the cover says that it applies to "20 TR2, 3 & 3A" models, very l= ittle > of the contents applies to post 60000 cars. > In the section on windshield assemblies (plate AM), the corresponding > commission number lists TS 32833 max.......nothing beyond it. > Bob Stahlbush > 66 MGB GHN 3L 78708 > 60 TR3A TS 81398 L ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Feb 1999 20:46:25 -0500 From: Tony Rhodes Subject: OD transmission tunnel cover plate available To all those who may have missed it last weekend, I have made some molds to fabricate fiberglass reproduction OD cover plates for the TR4A - TR6 models. This covers the speedometer cable attachment to the transmission= and the angle drive (TR6). The cable and angle drive requires extra space not allowed on the original (and reproduction) transmission tunnels. The cost is $US 8.00 plus shipping. These plates are a virtually exact replica (in fiberglass) of the original (now very rare) metal plate. The fit to the tunnel is not exact (also like the original), and a thick soft putty was used to seal the small gap(s). I used plumber's putty. So far I have potential requests for 13 cover plates, and I can make more= , at least until the molds break too badly to repair. I am looking in to the possibility of having vacuum cast ABS plates made.= If this seems feasible, I will pursue it. -Tony Rhodes ARhodes@compuserve.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Feb 1999 20:16:46 -0600 From: "Jack Clark" Subject: Re: TR6 Stromberg carb question Tim, Had the same problem, placed the gaskets and so far so good. Good luck, Jack '74 TR6 - -----Original Message----- From: Tim Gaines To: TRIUMPHS@autox.team.net Date: Sunday, February 28, 1999 4:41 PM Subject: TR6 Stromberg carb question > >I just finished dismantling and cleaning the two Strombergs on my 1974 >TR6 purchased in October. The PO gave me one carb kit (in a plastic >bag) and I bought another, but the PO's kit did not have a gasket for >the starter box/choke assembly which the other kit had. Neither carb >had the gasket when I took them apart. One of my catalogs shows the >gasket but does not have a part number for it, and another one doesn't s= how >it at all. I decided to leave them off. I cranked up the engine for th= e >first time a couple of hours ago, and it caught right up and sounded >pretty smooth with no adjustments yet, but the forward carb is leaking >gas and it appears to be from the starter box. So it seems that the >gasket might really be necessary even though it wasn't there before >and there was no leaking before. Do any of you out there remember >whether your manual choke Strombergs have the gasket? And is there a >way to buy another one without getting the whole rebuild kit? > >Thanks for any help. > >Tim Gaines >1974 TR6 >1980 Spitfire > > > > > ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Feb 1999 21:42:32 -0500 From: Fred Thomas Subject: vacation Listers, since I am now retired I still try a manage 4 weeks of vacation per year, this year will be 2 weeks for VTR & TRF combined as 1 nice long trip. This week I was given the first 3 days of my planned 4 weeks of time away, I painted the living room and dining room, walls, ceiling, and trim. Now my immediate supervisor (labor boss), does not have a set pay scale, (below minimum), she gives comp. time, so many days away for so much of her approved work (honey do's) being completed and on time. If I receive 2 days for 2 complete rooms of paint work, how much more will it take for 26 more days ?? It's only a 4 bedroom house, and the down stairs were completed last year. Since spring training for baseball has started, I hope no chance she will "Farm me out" for the rest of my paid vacation. Andy, Brad, Dan and Ken S. I will be in Portland, Trust Me. "FT" ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Feb 1999 21:02:07 -0600 From: "Paul Schneider" Subject: Pale Yellow Paint Thanks for all the responses on getting a PPG paint code for pale yellow paint. The consensus is primrose yellow is the same as pale yellow, and = the PPG paint code is 82043. My local PPG paint supplier tells me PPG code 82043 is for "Moonlight yellow - 1972 Mazda". From what I've been able to find out, automobile manufacturer's "copy" paint colors from other manufacturer's. Can it be that my beloved TR3A (and all the boxes it is in) is the same color as so= me 1972 Tokyo tin? I'm going to get a spray can and see how close it is. Paul 1960 TR3A, in boxes ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Feb 1999 21:08:23 -0600 From: "Paul Schneider" Subject: Triumph Books Cliff Bryum at Midlife books carries quite a selection of Triumph books, = and at a discount. The Original Triumph book is $26 + shipping. You can contact him at midlife@mail.clt.bellsouth.net. It took a while, but he e-mailed me a list of all Triumph books he carries. No financial interest. Paul 1960 TR3A (in boxes) ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Feb 1999 21:04:28 -0600 From: "Ronald A. Dowty" Subject: Oil for TR6 transmission? What oil should I use in my 76 TR6's transmission? ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Feb 1999 20:55:34 -0700 (MST) From: Aaron Johnson Subject: Re: Oil for TR6 transmission? does it have over drive or not? GL-4 90 weight works for non o.d. you'l= l have to ask the o.d. guys what they use. aaron ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Feb 1999 23:11:35 -0500 From: Subject: Anybody want a daily update of new Triumph listings at eBay? I'm way behind on reading the list (just finished the Nov 8th digest, onl= y about 140 more to go... :-). In my catchup reading, I've noticed the occasional posting of Triumph bits at eBay. I just did a search and foun= d more than 60 items that seemed to be Triumph-related. That's too much to page through on a regular basis and I hate having to visit web sites to s= ee what's new, so I wrote a little script to download the page search for "triumph -motorcycle", snip out the interesting content and compare it wi= th the content saved the day before. This gives me a little update checker. The output is just a list of item numbers and descriptions as in 70067630 NOS Triumph Spitfire Catalytic Converter =09 70317267 Triumph Spitfire Transmission 75-80 =09 70320556 Triumph Spitfire ,GT6 License Lamp =09 The filter runs as a Unix cron job each morning at 6am Eastern and sends = me email when something new is added (only the new stuff, not existing or removed stuff). Since sending mail to a list is about as easy as sending mail to an individual, if anyone's interested in getting such an update, drop me a note and I'll add you to the distribution list. I don't think = the whole list will be interested in this, nor do I think it's a good idea fo= r programs to be sending mail to large mailing lists that are under other peoples' control (too much chance for runaway programs and the resulting = bad vibes). *Don't* send your request to be added to the triumphs list. I figure it will be sometime in May before I see it at the rate I'm reading digests. Remember: Spring is just around the corner... Skip Montanaro=09| Mojam: "Uniting the World of Music" http://www.mojam.c= om/ skip@mojam.com | Musi-Cal: http://www.musi-cal.com/ 518-372-5583 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 01 Mar 1999 00:13:43 -0500 From: alice and mitch Subject: TR6/weber 32/36 conversion Any advise on setting up a pair of Weber 32/36 DFV carbs on a '74 6? Thanks, Mitch S. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Feb 1999 22:28:23 -0700 From: Peter Zaborski Subject: tr6 clutch master cylinder & bpnw Has anyone purchased a 0.70" TR6 clutch master cyl from BPNW? Their web listed price is much much lower t= han the big 3. I'd like to know if it is the Girling one that is original on = my car or some other brand? Any info from those who've "been there" greatly appreciated. (The later c= ars had the 0.70" bore MCs, early cars had 0.75") Peter Zaborski CF58310UO ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Mar 1999 21:17:49 +1300 From: Peter Cebalo Subject: Overdrive Conversion Anyone want to swap some overdrive bits ? I have a set of components for a later TR6 ( excluding the OD itself ) that I want to swap for corresponding later Spitfire bits. I have a mainshaft, adapter plate and top cover. I'm sure a few of you have a "J" type Spitfire transmission sitting in the garage planning to put the OD onto your TR6 at some stage ? Contact me off list if interested. Thanks Peter Cebalo 73 Spitfire Mk IV ( already with OD ) Auckland, New Zealand ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Mar 1999 02:18:39 -0000 From: "jonmac" Subject: An interesting auto website Listers I've just had details of this website sent to me while wearing my editori= al hat - http://www.ccdata.com Oodles of stuff there, though with quite a hi= gh British supplier and UK based content. Could be really useful all the sam= e if you get stuck trying to find something. Fast download too for those of us with humble 160 pentiums John Mac Beware of Triumph "historians!" Some of us never get it 100% right, 100% of the time. No matter WHAT our name is ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 01 Mar 1999 08:54:25 +0000 From: Bill Davies Subject: Coffee Paint Codes? - 948 Herald Hi, =09Does anyone have any manufacturers paint codes for the Coffee Paint, a= s applied to Heralds around 1959-61? Probably used on other triumphs too. Unfortunately, this is one colour not listed on the most useful chart Joe Curry recently posted to the list. =09Thanks in advance, =09=09Bill Davies. - -- - --------------------------------------------------------- This Message sent by: ^=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D^ / \ William Davies / \ Total Triumph Enthusiast __ __________________ __ / \ ______ ______ / \ 1959 Herald 948 Coupe Y128 \__/ \ || / \__/ 1959 Herald 948 Coupe | A \____||____/ A | 1960 Herald 948 Saloon Export | =3D H H =3D | 1961 Herald S =3D=3D=3D=3D=3DU=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3DU=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D 1964 Herald 1200 Saloon \________________________/ 1966 Herald 1200 Convertible | | | | 1973 Spitfire MkIV |_| |_| 1959 Standard Atlas Pickup ------------------------------ End of triumphs@autox.team.net digest ************************ --part1_920351694_boundary-- --part0_920351694_boundary-- From beeline@iline.com Mon Mar 1 06:40:13 1999 From: bob bownes To: fot@autox.team.net Date: Tue, 02 Mar 1999 15:03:43 -0500 Subject: Shop sell off Folks, One of the local MG/TR repair shops is closing it's doors, or so I found out today when I stopped by. He's got a whole building full of stuff to get rid of in short order. MG parts of all sorts, bunch 'o TR parts, some whole cars, etc. The key here is soon. Like by Sunday Soon I saw a good MGB tranny go into the scrap pile today. He's not going to ship anything anywhere, strictly cash & carry. Location is Albany, N.Y. You all know the story or one like it. If there is anything you are interested in, you might want to give Lester a call @ 518.438.2881, tell him I sent you. Bob Bownes From beeline@iline.com Mon Mar 1 06:40:13 1999 From: Mark J Bradakis To: rbownes@neworks.net Date: Tue, 2 Mar 1999 13:10:13 -0700 (MST) Subject: Re: Shop sell off What? It isn't all going into your garage? mjb. From beeline@iline.com Mon Mar 1 06:40:13 1999 From: bob bownes To: Mark J Bradakis Date: Tue, 02 Mar 1999 15:16:20 -0500 Subject: Re: Shop sell off At 01:10 PM 3/2/99 -0700, Mark J Bradakis wrote: > >What? It isn't all going into your garage? > Not all of it...But I do have first dibs on the MillerMatic35, the Coats tire machine, the TR6 headers, manifolds, and differential...I'd like the lift, but I don't have enough cash for that... From beeline@iline.com Mon Mar 1 06:40:13 1999 From: Malaboge@aol.com To: fot@autox.team.net, vintage-race@autox.team.net Date: Tue, 2 Mar 1999 16:34:59 EST Subject: Springs Fellow Fot'ers- Does anyone have a spare set of the old V449 rear competition coil springs for a TR4A->TR6. I could really use a set if anyone has them. These were the really stiff rear comp springs for these cars. New Car...new projects Nick in Nor Cal From beeline@iline.com Mon Mar 1 06:40:13 1999 From: TR3197@aol.com To: rbownes@neworks.net, fot@autox.team.net Date: Tue, 2 Mar 1999 18:18:45 EST Subject: Re: Shop sell off The sucking sound you hear is nothing presidential...it is Russ Moore leaving Brooktondale in search of TR parts. Thanks for the check, Bownes. Your place in VTR history is reserved...for a few days anyway. < Received: from rly-zd01.mx.aol.com (rly-zd01.mail.aol.com [172.31.33.225]) by air-zd02.mail.aol.com (v56.26) with SMTP; Tue, 02 Mar 1999 15:03:45 -0500 Received: from triumph.cs.utah.edu (triumph.cs.utah.edu [155.99.188.52]) by rly-zd01.mx.aol.com (8.8.8/8.8.5/AOL-4.0.0) with ESMTP id PAA14514; Tue, 2 Mar 1999 15:03:28 -0500 (EST) Received: from mail.neworks.net (mail.neworks.net [209.177.58.4]) by triumph.cs.utah.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id NAA00444 for ; Tue, 2 Mar 1999 13:04:47 -0700 (MST) Received: from d166.neworks.net ([209.177.58.166] helo=whiner.neworks.net) by mail.neworks.net with smtp (Exim 2.10 #1) id 10HvMF-0005nD-00 for fot@autox.team.net; Tue, 2 Mar 1999 15:01:35 -0500 Message-Id: <4.1.19990302145820.00a9d100@mail.neworks.net> X-Sender: rbownes@mail.neworks.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Tue, 02 Mar 1999 15:03:43 -0500 To: fot@autox.team.net From: bob bownes Subject: Shop sell off Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >> From beeline@iline.com Mon Mar 1 06:40:13 1999 From: Jim Hill To: "'Friends of Triumph'" Date: Tue, 2 Mar 1999 18:05:04 -0600 Subject: Boxes O' Parts I have three boxes of racecar parts that I need to have sent from a small town in Iowa to Wisconsin. Unfortunately, they're too big for UPS. They don't weigh all that much, but the boxes are about 4' square by 1' deep. Any suggestions as to who I can contact for shipment? Jim Hill Madison WI From beeline@iline.com Mon Mar 1 06:40:13 1999 From: bob bownes To: Jim Hill , Date: Tue, 02 Mar 1999 22:30:15 -0500 Subject: Re: Boxes O' Parts >Any suggestions as to who I can contact for shipment? > Check with FedEx & Airborne. I used to ship some big stuff with them. In fact, I almost once shipped an entire car FedEx...But that is a story that requires a few beers. :-} iii From beeline@iline.com Mon Mar 1 06:40:13 1999 From: "Greg Solow" To: "Alexander Joseph H" , Date: Tue, 2 Mar 1999 23:38:20 -0800 Subject: Re: Thrust Washers & Crankshafts A good crankshaft technician can weld up, stress relieve, straighten and regrind your crank to be as good or better than new. The question is can you get a replacement that is usable or grindable for less money? The cost to properly repair your crank is probably around $250.00 to $300.00 when done by a "Race Quality" shop in this part (Northern Calif. ) of the country. -----Original Message----- From: Alexander Joseph H To: 'Amici Triumphi' Date: Monday, March 01, 1999 7:33 AM Subject: Thrust Washers & Crankshafts >I dismantled the "rebuilt" engine that is to go in my TR3A. It does have new >pistons and liners, but it about ends there. > >Typical error of putting thrust washers in backwards....a few thousand miles >on engine produces a crankshaft that is unusable in present form. > >What is the FOT experience with such a crank? I suspect that my machine shop >will say that it beyond cleaning up, but have not discussed it with them >yet. I am aware of metalizing in Marshalltown, Iowa, but don't want to >resort to this yet. > >I will put this one on the shelf, with the other one that looks like this, >and take down the crank that Chip sent me a couple of years ago. In the >meantime, what is the scoop on salvaging these cranks. > >Thanks, > >Joe > From beeline@iline.com Mon Mar 1 06:40:13 1999 From: JFrymark@aol.com To: Jim_Hill@chrsa.wisc.edu, fot@autox.team.net Date: Wed, 3 Mar 1999 13:51:00 EST Subject: Fwd: Boxes O' Parts This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --part0_920487060_boundary Content-ID: <0_920487060@inet_out.mail.aol.com.1> Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Also try RPS for shipment. They take larger package sizes than UPS, but I don't know if they'll pick-up at a residence. --part0_920487060_boundary Content-ID: <0_920487060@inet_out.mail.neworks.net.2> Content-type: message/rfc822 Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Content-disposition: inline Return-Path: Received: from rly-za02.mx.aol.com (rly-za02.mail.aol.com [172.31.36.98]) by air-za01.mail.aol.com (v56.26) with SMTP; Tue, 02 Mar 1999 22:30:00 1900 Received: from triumph.cs.utah.edu (triumph.cs.utah.edu [155.99.188.52]) by rly-za02.mx.aol.com (8.8.8/8.8.5/AOL-4.0.0) with ESMTP id WAA15689; Tue, 2 Mar 1999 22:29:54 -0500 (EST) Received: from mail.neworks.net (mail.neworks.net [209.177.58.4]) by triumph.cs.utah.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id UAA04548 for ; Tue, 2 Mar 1999 20:31:11 -0700 (MST) Received: from toshiba-45-138.nycap.rr.com ([24.92.45.138] helo=whiner.neworks.net) by mail.neworks.net with smtp (Exim 2.10 #1) id 10I2KI-0006Aa-00; Tue, 2 Mar 1999 22:28:02 -0500 Message-Id: <4.1.19990302222850.009c2470@mail.neworks.net> X-Sender: rbownes@mail.neworks.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Tue, 02 Mar 1999 22:30:15 -0500 To: Jim Hill , "'Friends of Triumph'" From: bob bownes Subject: Re: Boxes O' Parts In-Reply-To: <416ACA1A96ACD1119FC300A0C949970A3BAD18@chsra4.chsra.wisc.e du> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit >Any suggestions as to who I can contact for shipment? > Check with FedEx & Airborne. I used to ship some big stuff with them. In fact, I almost once shipped an entire car FedEx...But that is a story that requires a few beers. :-} iii --part0_920487060_boundary-- From beeline@iline.com Mon Mar 1 06:40:13 1999 From: Malaboge@aol.com To: fot@autox.team.net, vintage-race@autox.team.net Date: Thu, 4 Mar 1999 01:51:53 EST Subject: Diff Differences... Lockerheads- Who here on the list has used both a Detroit Locker and a Quaiffe unit? And in 25 words or less, which is better, why and how? You will be graded on your response... Nick in Nor Cal From beeline@iline.com Mon Mar 1 06:40:13 1999 From: Gregory Petrolati To: Malaboge@AOL.COM Date: Thu, 4 Mar 1999 07:31:40 -0600 (CST) Subject: Re: Diff Differences... On Thu, 4 Mar 1999 Malaboge@aol.com wrote: > > Lockerheads- > > Who here on the list has used both a Detroit Locker and a Quaiffe unit? > And in > 25 words or less, which is better, why and how? > > You will be graded on your response... > Nick in Nor Cal > I use a Detroit Locker... It was used, it was cheap and available... (Okay? 12 words:)) Greg Petrolati gpetrola@prairienet.org 1962 TR4 (CT4852L) "That's not a leak... My car is just marking its territory!" Greg Petrolati, Champaign, Illinois From beeline@iline.com Mon Mar 1 06:40:13 1999 From: Jack Wheeler To: fot@autox.team.net Date: Thu, 04 Mar 1999 08:40:19 -0500 Subject: Overdrive Transmission Mainshaft I am looking for overdrive transmission mainshafts for the TR-3B through TR-6 transmissions (i.e. all synchro gearboxes). This would be the short mainshaft which fits into the 'A' Type overdrive unit. If any of you have any (or know anyone who does) that you would be interested in selling, please let me know. I also would be interested in purchasing any 'A' Type overdrive cores, or parts. Thanks. From beeline@iline.com Mon Mar 1 06:40:13 1999 From: "Irv Korey" To: Date: Thu, 4 Mar 1999 08:12:40 -0600 Subject: Fuel Pump Kill Switches Greetings FOT, I was wondering if any of you are using a switch such as the one sold by Pegasus Racing that cuts power to your electric fuel pump in the event of a hard impact or rollover. All suggestions welcomed. Thanks, Irv Korey 74 TR6 CF22767U 66 TR4A CT52499 Highland Park, IL From beeline@iline.com Mon Mar 1 06:40:13 1999 From: "R. John Lye" To: Jack Wheeler , fot@autox.team.net Date: Thu, 04 Mar 1999 09:23:51 -0500 Subject: Re: Overdrive Transmission Mainshaft At 08:40 AM 3/4/99 -0500, Jack Wheeler wrote: >I am looking for overdrive transmission mainshafts for the TR-3B through >TR-6 transmissions (i.e. all synchro gearboxes). This would be the short >mainshaft which fits into the 'A' Type overdrive unit. Hi Jack (and anyone else who's interested), There's been a thread on this issue lately on the main Triumphs list. Apparently Quantum Mechanics has been re-manufacturing these main shafts. From the Monster list: >Quantum Mechanics >John Esposito >505 Wheeler Road >Monroe, Connecticut 06468 >(203) 459-9612 >(203) 261-8497 fax I have no personal experience with them, John Lye rjl6n@Virginia.edu From beeline@iline.com Mon Mar 1 06:40:13 1999 From: Henry Frye To: "R. John Lye" Date: Thu, 04 Mar 1999 10:20:25 -0500 Subject: Re: Overdrive Transmission Mainshaft Hi Jack, John, (and anyone else who's _still_ interested) When building my A-Type OD, a few bits were sourced from Quantum. As I understand it, Quantum rebuilds lots of gearboxes. John sources lots of parts from the UK, and came across a big batch of non-OD mainshafts. He bought them, and has a machine shop here in the States chop out the excess length, then fabricate and weld on a section with the necessary splines. Probably fine for road use. Could be fine for the power of a full race engine... ;-) By all means give him a call. I'll bet he would tell you how he goes about the conversion. He's always seemed reasonable when I have talked to him. At 09:23 AM 3/4/99 -0500, R. John Lye wrote: >At 08:40 AM 3/4/99 -0500, Jack Wheeler wrote: >>I am looking for overdrive transmission mainshafts for the TR-3B through >>TR-6 transmissions (i.e. all synchro gearboxes). This would be the short >>mainshaft which fits into the 'A' Type overdrive unit. > >Hi Jack (and anyone else who's interested), > There's been a thread on this issue lately on the main Triumphs >list. Apparently Quantum Mechanics has been re-manufacturing these >main shafts. From the Monster list: > >>Quantum Mechanics >>John Esposito >>505 Wheeler Road >>Monroe, Connecticut 06468 >>(203) 459-9612 >>(203) 261-8497 fax > >I have no personal experience with them, > >John Lye >rjl6n@Virginia.edu > > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Henry Frye - thefryes@iconn.net - Connecticut, USA Stag MkI Getting Sorted Out TR3B Driver TR250 X 3 The BIG Project - Will Be Worth the Wait Homepage http://members.iconn.net/thefryes/ From beeline@iline.com Mon Mar 1 06:40:13 1999 From: Bob Lang To: Malaboge@AOL.COM Date: Thu, 04 Mar 1999 12:00:30 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: Diff Differences... On Thu, 4 Mar 1999 Malaboge@aol.com wrote: > > Lockerheads- > > Who here on the list has used both a Detroit Locker and a Quaiffe unit? And in > 25 words or less, which is better, why and how? ... and please cc this list with your responses. I have both and am looking for "what to expect". By chance, I'll be using the Quaiffe first, but if I muster up some extra effort, I'll likely put the locker on my DSP car - just for laughs. At that point, I'll be able to provide feedback. Hopefully. > You will be graded on your response... > Nick in Nor Cal regards, rml ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Bob Lang Room N42-140Q | This space for rent. Consultant MIT Computer Services | Voice: (617)253-7438 FAX: (617)258-9535 | ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From beeline@iline.com Mon Mar 1 06:40:13 1999 From: Bob Lang To: "R. John Lye" Date: Thu, 04 Mar 1999 12:04:41 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: Overdrive Transmission Mainshaft On Thu, 4 Mar 1999, R. John Lye wrote: > At 08:40 AM 3/4/99 -0500, Jack Wheeler wrote: > >I am looking for overdrive transmission mainshafts for the TR-3B through > >TR-6 transmissions (i.e. all synchro gearboxes). This would be the short > >mainshaft which fits into the 'A' Type overdrive unit. > > Hi Jack (and anyone else who's interested), > There's been a thread on this issue lately on the main Triumphs > list. Apparently Quantum Mechanics has been re-manufacturing these > main shafts. From the Monster list: > > >Quantum Mechanics > >John Esposito > >505 Wheeler Road > >Monroe, Connecticut 06468 > >(203) 459-9612 > >(203) 261-8497 fax > > I have no personal experience with them, I have. John's a pretty good guy. A straight-shooter. I've recommended his services to many folks. He knows his stuff. I didn't know he was re-manufacturing these shafts, but I know he gets a lot of stuff from the UK. Like twin SU's for spitfires. A lot of folks up this way have done that conversion. > John Lye > rjl6n@Virginia.edu rml ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Bob Lang Room N42-140Q | This space for rent. Consultant MIT Computer Services | Voice: (617)253-7438 FAX: (617)258-9535 | ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From beeline@iline.com Mon Mar 1 06:40:13 1999 From: JWoesvra@aol.com To: Malaboge@aol.com, fot@autox.team.net, vintage-race@autox.team.net Date: Thu, 4 Mar 1999 12:07:11 EST Subject: Re: Diff Differences... In a message dated 3/4/99 2:05:56 AM Eastern Standard Time, Malaboge@aol.com writes: << Lockerheads- Who here on the list has used both a Detroit Locker and a Quaiffe unit? And in 25 words or less, which is better, why and how? >> Detroit Locker uses a rachet which is hard on driveline components. Quaiffe uses climbing gears which are smooth but can allow some slippage. I prefer Salisbury/ Positraction types with clutches because amount of slippage can be set. They all work. Sorry about going over 25 word limit. Jack Woehrle From beeline@iline.com Mon Mar 1 06:40:13 1999 From: BillDentin@aol.com To: Malaboge@aol.com, fot@autox.team.net, vintage-race@autox.team.net Date: Thu, 4 Mar 1999 12:28:54 EST Subject: Re: Diff Differences... Nick: Except for about eighteen months in the mid-1970s, my TR3 has been a RACE CAR all its life. I have logged about one hundred and seventy-five events myself. The car came with a Detroit Locker and a 4:1 ring and pinion. It is an incredible piece of equipment. I understand it was developed for a light truck, so it is VERY stout. A couple times each year it will make a noise like the rear end fell out, that is because it is mechanical, and has no clutches. But when we take it apart and examine it, it still looks like brand new. I can't believe it. I love it. Last year we won the E-Production part of SVRA's BADGER 200 at ROAD AMERICA. Don't be impressed...two hundred miles is a long way, and we just broke later than everyone else. While we were still running at the end, we had a broken ring and pinion. Again, when we rebuilt, we found the Locker was just fine. Bob Wismer and I are running a Quaiffe in the Thunder Bolt. It is similar, and smoother. It is more modern, and has clutches. I am sure it is easier on the drive line. We like it, but have not run it long enough to judge its long term dependability, and based on my TR3's experience, how important can that be? Last summer we set up two more axles...a 4:55 and a 3:73. The 4:55 has a locker in it, and the 3:73 is welded. I know the vast majority of old TR racers will tell you a welded rear end is 'the way to go' (and that is based on economies), but I can't subscribe to that. All you have to do is push a car with a welded rear end around a parking lot to decide a 'Locker or Quaiffe' is money well spent. Bill Dentinger Last year we se From beeline@iline.com Mon Mar 1 06:40:13 1999 From: Mark J Bradakis To: Malaboge@AOL.COM Date: Thu, 4 Mar 1999 11:07:10 -0700 (MST) Subject: Re: Diff Differences... I ran a locker in The White Car, a solid axle TR4A autocrosser. The Killer Spit has a Quaiffe. Wish I had experience with the different types in the same car. The locker makes a lot of noise at times, but works well. At a divisional up in Idaho a few years ago, the car was behaving quite strangely. It was very squirrelly when power was applied, and making even stranger nises than usual. Turns out I had sheared one of the hub keys, but thanks to the locker I was still getting power to the ground from the other wheel. Of course, I was trounced by some local guys who were usually a few seconds behind me. Not my best ever event. The Quaiffe is much quieter, smoother actuation, and similar results. It can allow some slippage at times, unlike the locker which locks ;-) My nod is to the Quaiffe for better driveability. mjb. From beeline@iline.com Mon Mar 1 06:40:13 1999 From: TR3197@aol.com To: Malaboge@aol.com Date: Thu, 4 Mar 1999 13:47:56 EST Subject: Re: Diff Differences... Quaiffe: If the car is set up properly, it reportedly allows true differential action to wheels, with power going to the outside wheel at a slightly faster rate than the inside wheel. If it is not driven well or the car is not set up well, the inside wheel will pick up and spin. I think it forced me to drive better and with more concentration, as I started my learning curve. It also made me do a little more fiddling with the suspension. I notice that DLs have a tendency to cause the car to twitch as it locks and unlocks. The Quaife is seamless. I think, with the fewer moving parts and solid construction, it is nearly bullet proof. John Deere has used a form of this in some heavy duty axles. JD usually stays away from stuff that is not proven technology. Not a great tecnical assessment, but it is my story and I am sticking to it. From beeline@iline.com Mon Mar 1 06:40:13 1999 From: cak@dimebank.com (Chris Kantarjiev) To: FOT@autox.team.net, emanteno@ibm.net Date: Thu, 4 Mar 1999 11:18:55 -0800 Subject: Re: Fuel Pump Kill Switches I installed one of the ones sold by Moss in my street/autox GT6. I had to rework the wiring - it came with 20 gauge wire, which is way too small. MGBs apparently had a switch to this effect which can be salvaged for much less than the $60 or so that people are getting. From beeline@iline.com Mon Mar 1 06:40:13 1999 From: "Will, Dale" To: "'cak@dimebank.com'" , FOT@autox.team.net, Date: Thu, 4 Mar 1999 12:16:10 -0800 Subject: RE: Fuel Pump Kill Switches Another idea would be to use a fuel pump relay from a late seventies/early eighties Rabbit; very cheap and plentiful. This relay is wired to the distributor and kills the pump if the engine stops. > -----Original Message----- > From: cak@dimebank.com [SMTP:cak@dimebank.com] > Sent: Thursday, March 04, 1999 11:19 AM > To: FOT@autox.team.net; emanteno@ibm.net > Subject: Re: Fuel Pump Kill Switches > > I installed one of the ones sold by Moss in my street/autox GT6. > > I had to rework the wiring - it came with 20 gauge wire, which is > way too small. > > MGBs apparently had a switch to this effect which can be salvaged > for much less than the $60 or so that people are getting. From beeline@iline.com Mon Mar 1 06:40:13 1999 From: bob bownes To: fot@autox.team.net Date: Thu, 04 Mar 1999 16:50:56 -0500 Subject: 6 Cylinder cam... Ok, so maybe I'm hallucinating again, but the motor has got to come out of the TR6 this winter. And I have this TR250 motor sitting in the garage... And this header sitting in the garage... And the diff needs to come out.... So, I'm thinking maybe I could move the TR6 out of Stock class...but still drive it on the street in the, uh, spirited fashion to which I have become accustomed. Can anyone recommend a cam that won't leave it as a race car only? Gotta find a dyno close by....:-} From beeline@iline.com Mon Mar 1 06:40:13 1999 From: Patrick McMullen To: emanteno@ibm.net Date: Thu, 04 Mar 1999 17:29:19 -0800 Subject: Re: Fuel Pump Kill Switches Hi Irv, I simply wired my electric fuel pump through my oil pressure switch on the engine block. No oil pressure...no fuel pressure. I also installed a bypass switch allowing me to fill the bowls after long periods of non use. Pat in NC From beeline@iline.com Mon Mar 1 06:40:13 1999 From: Bob Lang To: bob bownes Date: Thu, 04 Mar 1999 17:39:35 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: 6 Cylinder cam... On Thu, 4 Mar 1999, bob bownes wrote: > > Ok, so maybe I'm hallucinating again, but the motor has got to come out of > the TR6 this winter. You'd better hurry - only 16 days 'till Spring!!! > And I have this TR250 motor sitting in the garage... okay... > And this header sitting in the garage... okay... > And the diff needs to come out.... okay... > So, I'm thinking maybe I could move the TR6 out of Stock class...but still > drive it on the street in the, uh, spirited fashion to which I have become > accustomed. Aha! VTR Modified class :-) My Faaaaa-vor-ite! Keep the interior, though or you move to Prepared. My new favorite class. I think. However, if the TR250 is all stock, I don' think the header moves you to Mod - whoops just checked. It does. Oh well. We're talkin' Mod. And of course SCCA would be Street Prepared unless you change the gears. Then it's Prepared or my overall favorite - E Mod. > Can anyone recommend a cam that won't leave it as a race car only? A lot of folks in NET are putting in the Piper 285 cam. It has a really intense lift, something like .470 at the valve, but only .278 duration. Very smooth idle. Lots-o-torque. You have to cut the valve spring pockets, though, so you might as well do a valve job if you go this route. If you recall VTR '98, Frank Frett had the Piper 285 setup, he able to pick the front right wheel about 18 inches in the air when he accelerated in right hand corners. Looks waaaaaay kool. Of course I was too busy talking to get it on video!! > Gotta find a dyno close by....:-} Or get a G-tech and keep guessing. :-) Bye, rml ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Bob Lang Room N42-140Q | This space for rent. Consultant MIT Computer Services | Voice: (617)253-7438 FAX: (617)258-9535 | ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From beeline@iline.com Mon Mar 1 06:40:13 1999 From: DLMAssoc@aol.com To: pmcmull@ibm.net, emanteno@ibm.net Date: Thu, 4 Mar 1999 17:46:33 EST Subject: Re: Fuel Pump Kill Switches In a message dated 3/4/99 5:30:28 PM Eastern Standard Time, pmcmull@ibm.net writes: << I simply wired my electric fuel pump through my oil pressure switch on the engine block. No oil pressure...no fuel pressure. I also installed a bypass switch allowing me to fill the bowls after long periods of non use. >> That's basically what I've got on the TR4 I autocross, but I've been advised to change it. Although the switch will shut off fuel to the carbs and help prevent a fire in the event of a crash, it won't necessarily save the engine in the event of an oil pressure failure, since the fuel bowls will be full and the engine could keep running (without oil pressure) until that's gone. The recommendation was "a big red light on the dash" to tell me to manually shut everything down. Seems like the combination of cutoff switch to the pump and big red light would be ideal in a racecar... Don Marshall From beeline@iline.com Mon Mar 1 06:40:13 1999 From: cak@dimebank.com (Chris Kantarjiev) To: DLMAssoc@AOL.COM, emanteno@ibm.net, pmcmull@ibm.net Date: Thu, 4 Mar 1999 15:05:07 -0800 Subject: Re: Fuel Pump Kill Switches And as folks have pointed out in other forums, a healthy engine with a healthy oil pump will put out 3-7psi of oil pressure with a missing gallery plug - that won't save your engine. Fundamentally what you're after is that if you screw it so badly that you've turned upside down or potentially severed a fuel line, you want the fuel to stop coming NOW. No one wants to be upside down in a race car, strapped in, with fuel seeping into his Nomex. Those pressure-driven switches aren't about saving the engine if you run out of oil - it's too late for that once they take effect. This is all about not spraying fuel on something hot while you're still in the car. The big red light is exactly as you describe - it says you're about to have Mr Bearing say hello to Mr Crankshaft, and if you're smart you'll either shut it down NOW or take the next several corners a little less festively. From beeline@iline.com Mon Mar 1 06:40:13 1999 From: GuyotLeonF@aol.com To: emanteno@ibm.net, FOT@autox.team.net Date: Thu, 4 Mar 1999 19:03:19 EST Subject: Re: Fuel Pump Kill Switches In a message dated 04/03/99 14:11:22 GMT Standard Time, emanteno@ibm.net writes: << Greetings FOT, I was wondering if any of you are using a switch such as the one sold by Pegasus Racing that cuts power to your electric fuel pump in the event of a hard impact or rollover. All suggestions welcomed. Thanks, Irv Korey 74 TR6 CF22767U 66 TR4A CT52499 Highland Park, IL >> I use the one from the Jaguar XJ6. It is cheap and it works. I think it works by inertia, but have never had to cut one open to find out. Leon F Guyot From beeline@iline.com Mon Mar 1 06:40:13 1999 From: "John Lehman" To: "John E. Lehman" , "FOT" Date: Thu, 4 Mar 1999 19:34:21 -0500 Subject: Diffs and Wheels This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_01AD_01BE6676.00952120 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable All this talk about Lockers and Quaiffes. When I bought my GT6 as a = race car it had several stock rear ends with, all different raios. Most = were partially welded, that is they have some travel before the teeth = hit the welds. Experience on the track seems to indicate that this = allows a better turn-in than one welded solid. Is this set up: a) safe = b)smart c)dependable d) none of the above? What alternative do I have = with the GT6? The axles look to be off a Datsun. I'm told that's = because the stock halfshafts twisted with increased hp. I asked if anyone knew anything about Cosmic wheels and never heard a = word about it on the list. I really like these wheels and I contend = that they're correct because they came with the car and we've been 15 = years in restoration. That makes the almost period correct, no? John Lehman ------=_NextPart_000_01AD_01BE6676.00952120 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
All this talk about Lockers and = Quaiffes. =20 When I bought my GT6 as a race car it had several stock rear ends with, = all=20 different raios.  Most were partially welded, that is they have = some travel=20 before the teeth hit the welds.  Experience on the track seems to = indicate=20 that this allows a better turn-in than one welded solid.  Is this = set up:=20 a) safe  b)smart  c)dependable d) none of the above?  = What=20 alternative do I have with the GT6?  The axles look to be off a=20 Datsun.  I'm told that's because the stock halfshafts twisted with=20 increased hp.
 
I asked if anyone knew anything = about Cosmic=20 wheels and never heard a word about it on the list.  I really like = these=20 wheels and I contend that they're correct because they came with the car = and=20 we've been 15 years in restoration.  That makes the almost period = correct,=20 no?
 
John = Lehman
------=_NextPart_000_01AD_01BE6676.00952120-- From beeline@iline.com Mon Mar 1 06:40:13 1999 From: "R. KASTNER" To: BillDentin@AOL.COM, FOT@autox.team.net Date: Thu, 04 Mar 1999 05:12:43 -0800 Subject: Re: Diff Differences... I have a couple of comments on the rear locker situation. First off, the competition department paid for the tooling to make the lockers for all the Triumph cars. I know cause I had to find the money to pay for them. Now on to handling of the various lockers etc. The locker is strong, dependable but will give some understeer. The clutch type diff will have a lot less understeer but is not as strong driving out of the corner cause it does slip and it also produces a lot of heat because of this slippage. On our Sebring cars in 1966 it was necessary to run a diff cooler cause in an hours practice they all (four) burned out the pinion seals and leaked like sieves. I have run TR-3' s with a welded diff and if you want understeer baby this will give it to you. But boy you talk about drive off the corner, when you have it set it beats anything.The welded diff stops you from pointing the front in early without being on the gas. If you are good this is okay but if not you are still on the gas when you are gone. By choice I used the Detroit locker because it was always there and did the job. Work out the little understeer with suspension settings. BillDentin@aol.com wrote: > Nick: > > Except for about eighteen months in the mid-1970s, my TR3 has been a RACE CAR > all its life. I have logged about one hundred and seventy-five events myself. > The car came with a Detroit Locker and a 4:1 ring and pinion. It is an > incredible piece of equipment. I understand it was developed for a light > truck, so it is VERY stout. A couple times each year it will make a noise > like the rear end fell out, that is because it is mechanical, and has no > clutches. But when we take it apart and examine it, it still looks like brand > new. I can't believe it. I love it. > > Last year we won the E-Production part of SVRA's BADGER 200 at ROAD AMERICA. > Don't be impressed...two hundred miles is a long way, and we just broke later > than everyone else. While we were still running at the end, we had a broken > ring and pinion. Again, when we rebuilt, we found the Locker was just fine. > > Bob Wismer and I are running a Quaiffe in the Thunder Bolt. It is similar, > and smoother. It is more modern, and has clutches. I am sure it is easier on > the drive line. We like it, but have not run it long enough to judge its long > term dependability, and based on my TR3's experience, how important can that > be? > > Last summer we set up two more axles...a 4:55 and a 3:73. The 4:55 has a > locker in it, and the 3:73 is welded. I know the vast majority of old TR > racers will tell you a welded rear end is 'the way to go' (and that is based > on economies), but I can't subscribe to that. All you have to do is push a > car with a welded rear end around a parking lot to decide a 'Locker or > Quaiffe' is money well spent. > > Bill Dentinger > > Last year we se From beeline@iline.com Mon Mar 1 06:40:13 1999 From: TR3197@aol.com To: fot@autox.team.net Date: Thu, 4 Mar 1999 20:18:59 EST Subject: Fwd: Fw: Vintage Racer for sale This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --part0_920596741_boundary Content-ID: <0_920596741@inet_out.mail.aol.com.1> Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII --part0_920596741_boundary Content-ID: <0_920596741@inet_out.mail.ibm.net.2> Content-type: message/rfc822 Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Content-disposition: inline Return-Path: Received: from rly-yc05.mail.aol.com (rly-yc05.mail.aol.com [172.18.149.37]) by air-yc05.mail.aol.com (v56.26) with SMTP; Thu, 04 Mar 1999 15:40:08 -0500 Received: from out2.ibm.net (out2.ibm.net [165.87.194.229]) by rly-yc05.mail.aol.com (8.8.8/8.8.5/AOL-4.0.0) with ESMTP id PAA25240 for ; Thu, 4 Mar 1999 15:40:00 -0500 (EST) Received: from default (slip-32-101-121-7.il.us.ibm.net [32.101.121.7]) by out2.ibm.net (8.8.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id UAA16418; Thu, 4 Mar 1999 20:39:58 GMT Message-Id: <199903042039.UAA16418@out2.ibm.net> Reply-To: From: "Irv Korey" To: "Steve Benford, Jr." Cc: "Jack Drews" , "Fireball Alexander" Subject: Fw: Vintage Racer for sale Date: Thu, 4 Mar 1999 14:40:44 -0600 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Maybe for Steve, or Tony. Irv ---------- > From: M&J ROSEN > To: vintage-race@autox.team.net > Subject: Re: Vintage Racer for sale > Date: Thursday, March 04, 1999 12:51 PM > > An acquaintance asked to have this posted... > Old #77 - 1962 TR-4 ready to race. Long VARAC history > Excellent condition. > Car/Trailer/Spares - $15,000 Canadian > (that's about $10,000US!) > Art Casselman > Toronto > (416) 421-6634 (H) > (416) 288-8208 (W) > > Discovery of golf and women forces sale. > > Thanks > > Mike --part0_920596741_boundary-- From beeline@iline.com Mon Mar 1 06:40:13 1999 From: Jack W Drews To: Malaboge@AOL.COM Date: Thu, 04 Mar 1999 19:24:01 -0500 Subject: Re: Diff Differences... Malaboge@aol.com wrote: > > Lockerheads- > > Who here on the list has used both a Detroit Locker and a Quaiffe unit? And in > 25 words or less, which is better, why and how? > > You will be graded on your response... > Nick in Nor Cal On a Triumph with current vintage race tires like Hoosiers, expect the following: 1. Locked (welded) rear end -- understeer on power, oversteer off power, hard to push around in the pits and garage 2. Detroit locker - locks on and off -- and you can feel it and some say that upsets the car, some says it doesn't -- I don't like it 3. Quaiffe -- the only current production limited slip that fits a Triumph axle I think -- if you lift a wheel, it does not lock up like the other two alternatives, which is disappointing to me -- therefore you have to set up your car so you don't lift the inside wheel on cornering. I have this and like it fine. just my hmble observations.... -- uncle jack 61 TR4 Rallye Replica Racer 71 TR6 Street Car named Desire From beeline@iline.com Mon Mar 1 06:40:13 1999 From: TRBILBO@aol.com To: LANG@isis.mit.edu, Malaboge@aol.com Date: Thu, 4 Mar 1999 23:53:03 EST Subject: Re: Diff Differences... Don't forget the cheapest of all...a welded rear end. Any users? I use original Slsbury or Powr Lok....a near locker but does have clutches. A quaiffe is Nirvana...unless you come from the bias ply lunge and slide school or power drift like me....smile. Then the 'bang" slide chirp is music to your ears. Both work....it's all in technique I think...driving style. Can I buy the locker if you don't use it? Sure I have a spare diff that needs one...smile. Bill Burroughs, VTR So West Rep, E Ticket Triumphs, Founder SCTOA 70 TR6, 69 TR250, 73 MkIV, 69 GT6+, 59 TR3A and two 65 TR4A Vintage Race Cars. Happy Motoring!! From beeline@iline.com Mon Mar 1 06:40:13 1999 From: TRBILBO@aol.com To: DLMAssoc@aol.com, pmcmull@ibm.net, emanteno@ibm.net Date: Thu, 4 Mar 1999 23:59:02 EST Subject: Re: Fuel Pump Kill Switches Don...don't forget to paint the $ sign on the tach at the appropriate redline. Best rev limiter we ever installed. REALLY works!!...smile. Bill Burroughs, VTR So West Rep, E Ticket Triumphs, Founder SCTOA 70 TR6, 69 TR250, 73 MkIV, 69 GT6+, 59 TR3A and two 65 TR4A Vintage Race Cars. Happy Motoring!! From beeline@iline.com Mon Mar 1 06:40:13 1999 From: Smockracer@aol.com To: Malaboge@aol.com, fot@autox.team.net, vintage-race@autox.team.net Date: Fri, 5 Mar 1999 02:41:12 EST Subject: Re: Diff Differences... I run a TR4A solid axel and I have a Salisbury and 2 welded, which is quicker? I don't know, lap times appear to be the same. Welded is cheaper thanks to Chuck Gee and alot harder to push in the pits. VARA's Fep 19-21 race at Phoenix P.I.R. we had 8 Triumphs in EP, 3-TR4A, 2-GT6, 2-Spitfire, 1-TR3. More close Triumph to Triumph racing than we have had in a long time, Triumphs finished 2nd- Mordy 3rd-Me and 4th-Chuck, these c,ars are signed OK TO RACE KAS KASTNER. Nice to hear from KAS, the one who wrote the book on TR RACE CARS. Paul Smock #190 From beeline@iline.com Mon Mar 1 06:40:13 1999 From: "jonmac" To: "Lovers Jag" , Date: Fri, 5 Mar 1999 01:06:36 -0000 Subject: NEW book website Listers There is a new book website at http://www.toolbox.ndirect.co.uk/crocus As with last publication, print will take place following sufficient launch orders. Jonmac From beeline@iline.com Mon Mar 1 06:40:13 1999 From: DLMAssoc@aol.com To: TRBILBO@aol.com, pmcmull@ibm.net, emanteno@ibm.net Date: Fri, 5 Mar 1999 08:02:58 EST Subject: Re: Fuel Pump Kill Switches In a message dated 3/4/99 11:59:02 PM Eastern Standard Time, TR BILBO writes: << Don...don't forget to paint the $ sign on the tach at the appropriate redline. Best rev limiter we ever installed. REALLY works!!...smile. >> I found that during the driving school last month I was very aware of the tach. Unfortunately, I wasn't aware enough of the importance of correct spark plug heat range in a race engine and burned up a piston. At least that's what folks here think caused it. Fer shure I did something wrong. Maybe I should paint a big "$" on the hood to remind me to check everything. Bye... Don Marshall From beeline@iline.com Mon Mar 1 06:40:13 1999 From: Jack Wheeler To: TRBILBO@AOL.COM, fot@autox.team.net Date: Fri, 05 Mar 1999 08:07:45 -0500 Subject: Re: Diff Differences... I used a welded rear end in my TR-4A race car for 23 years nad never had any problems. Mine was an IRS car, and when I was first setting it up I talked with Bob Tullius about the weak rear stub axles. He recommended I switch to Corvair stub axles, and also recommended a welded differential (said it was less stress on the axles than a locker). So I welded it up in 1975, and used it thereafter. Worked fine on the track - but hard to push around the paddock! At 11:53 PM 3/4/99 EST, you wrote: >Don't forget the cheapest of all...a welded rear end. Any users? > >I use original Slsbury or Powr Lok....a near locker but does have clutches. > >A quaiffe is Nirvana...unless you come from the bias ply lunge and slide >school or power drift like me....smile. Then the 'bang" slide chirp is music >to your ears. > >Both work....it's all in technique I think...driving style. > >Can I buy the locker if you don't use it? Sure I have a spare diff that needs >one...smile. > >Bill Burroughs, VTR So West Rep, E Ticket Triumphs, Founder SCTOA >70 TR6, 69 TR250, 73 MkIV, 69 GT6+, 59 TR3A and two 65 TR4A >Vintage Race Cars. Happy Motoring!! > From beeline@iline.com Mon Mar 1 06:40:13 1999 From: Bob Lang To: John Lehman Date: Fri, 05 Mar 1999 09:54:56 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: Diffs and Wheels Hi, Cosmic wheels are period accessories. The GT6 had several ratios - 3.27 and 3.89 included. If you have a higher ratio, it is likely out of one of the other Herald derivatives. Spitfires had 4.10 gears on some of the earlier cars, for example. However, Andy Mace would be the authority on what ratios would be available. As for your welded diffs allowing any movement, I'm not so sure this is a good thing or not. My understanding is that a welded diff is exactly that - a welded diff. Put more succinctly, they heat the pumpkin really hot and then weld all the spider gears together into one big lump. Thus, there is no movement of anything (at least with regard to the spider gears). For a final say on the matter, show it to a race shop and ask them. Regarding axles, there's a guy named Wayne Snyder from Grand Rapids, MI who runs a Spitfire in E Mod autocross class. He has a 2.5 liter Toyota 4AG motor in there - making much more power than a GT6 would likely make (assuming you don't have a $25k motor, of course), and it turns out that he makes (or has made) special super tough axles for Spitfires. A lot of folks run these axles, from what I gather. All reports that I've heard is that they are super reliable. Failing the Wayne S. solution - some folks have modified TR6 axles to work with the Spitfire rear. A guy on the Triumphs list who goes by then name Barry Schwartz has done this conversion. Seems the V6 Ford engine in his Spitfire makes a bit more torque than a stock Spitfire... ;-) C ya, rml ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Bob Lang Room N42-140Q | This space for rent. Consultant MIT Computer Services | Voice: (617)253-7438 FAX: (617)258-9535 | ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From beeline@iline.com Mon Mar 1 06:40:13 1999 From: Jack Wheeler To: Bob Lang , fot@autox.team.net Date: Fri, 05 Mar 1999 10:19:41 -0500 Subject: Re: Diffs and Wheels Fletcher Williams, who won the Runoffs in 1991 in a TR-6, used the 'welded, but not solid' differential. I didn't see it on the inside, but as Fletcher described it, they welded a lump on the spider grars so that the gears could move a slight distance (e.g. 1/4 inch) before it would lock. He felt this was a better solution than welding it solid as I did. If anyone is interested in more info on this approach, I suggest you contact Fletcher. He is in the Atlanta area. Last number I had was (404) 564-0972. At 09:54 AM 3/5/99 -0500, you wrote: >Hi, > >Cosmic wheels are period accessories. > >The GT6 had several ratios - 3.27 and 3.89 included. If you have a higher >ratio, it is likely out of one of the other Herald derivatives. Spitfires >had 4.10 gears on some of the earlier cars, for example. However, Andy >Mace would be the authority on what ratios would be available. > >As for your welded diffs allowing any movement, I'm not so sure this is a >good thing or not. My understanding is that a welded diff is exactly that - >a welded diff. Put more succinctly, they heat the pumpkin really hot and >then weld all the spider gears together into one big lump. Thus, there is >no movement of anything (at least with regard to the spider gears). > >For a final say on the matter, show it to a race shop and ask them. > >Regarding axles, there's a guy named Wayne Snyder from Grand Rapids, MI who >runs a Spitfire in E Mod autocross class. He has a 2.5 liter >Toyota 4AG motor in there - making much more power than a GT6 would >likely make (assuming you don't have a $25k motor, of course), and it >turns out that he makes (or has made) special super tough axles for >Spitfires. A lot of folks run these axles, from what I gather. All >reports that I've heard is that they are super reliable. > >Failing the Wayne S. solution - some folks have modified TR6 axles to >work with the Spitfire rear. A guy on the Triumphs list who goes by then >name Barry Schwartz has done this conversion. Seems the V6 Ford engine in >his Spitfire makes a bit more torque than a stock Spitfire... ;-) > >C ya, >rml >--------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- >Bob Lang Room N42-140Q | This space for rent. >Consultant MIT Computer Services | >Voice: (617)253-7438 FAX: (617)258-9535 | >--------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- > From beeline@iline.com Mon Mar 1 06:40:13 1999 From: Andrew Mace To: Bob Lang Date: Fri, 5 Mar 1999 10:43:36 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: Diffs and Wheels On Fri, 5 Mar 1999, Bob Lang wrote: > The GT6 had several ratios - 3.27 and 3.89 included. If you have a higher > ratio, it is likely out of one of the other Herald derivatives. Spitfires > had 4.10 gears on some of the earlier cars, for example. However, Andy > Mace would be the authority on what ratios would be available. Whether they'll all fit all diff's, I'm not sure, but the "Small Cars" used, at various times: 3.27 GT6 3.63 Spit 1500 UK 3.89 Spit Mk.IV (and 1500 USA), also some OD-equipped GT6s 4.11 Herald, early Spit, early Vitesse/Sports 6 4.55 Herald 948 twin-carb, also Triumph (Standard) 10, in solid rear axle 4.875 Herald 948 single carb 5.143 (gasp! That was "special order only" for Heralds) I think that's all of them, unless the early TR7s had yet another ratio, such as 3.45(?) -- again, it was the same center section, more or less. --Andy * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Andrew Mace, President and * * 10/Herald/Vitesse (Sports 6) Consultant * * Vintage Triumph Register * * amace@unix2.nysed.gov * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * From beeline@iline.com Mon Mar 1 06:40:13 1999 From: Malaboge@aol.com To: fot@autox.team.net, vintage-race@autox.team.net Date: Fri, 5 Mar 1999 11:11:34 EST Subject: Diffs & New Toys...kinda long Fellow Garage Guys- Not to anthropomorphize, but, boy is my GT6 po'ed.... One minute it's the Garage Queen, next minute it's under a tarp out in the cold ! Seems that I woke up the other morning and found a '65 TR4A E Prod racer in the drive (actually that should not have come as a shock as I had spent the better part of the previous day getting it there...) The Rationalization: Most of us never have been able to build the "ultimate" racer, you know, no shortcuts and everything exactely right. If you're like me, you probably ended up with somebody else's idea of a race car and sort of improved things as you had the chance. Well, not with the GT, no sir, this car is gonna be just the way it should be (at least in my version). So, after working on it for 2 years and it still isn't gonna see a track this year. The Opportunity: I knew about this car for quite a while, but the price was more than I wanted to spend. Imagine my surprise when an unexpected phone call revealed a much improved price. The Result: A Signal Red 65 TR4A, been a racer car all its life, raced twice in 72 (new log book-once at the Oly Sprints and at Laguna Seca, oddly enough I was at this race also, but do not recall the car) and from the look of it, not very much thru the sixties. The car looks like it was built with a Triumph Competition list and a magic marker. Everything that you could order is on the car. Americans, Alfins, Al sump, cooler, tri "Y" style headers, factory springs (road and valve), and more to be discovered. Mostly the car just sat. The fellow's dad "tinkered" with it a bit (oil and brake fluids clean and clear, but the fenders have been undercoated with a spray can), and kept it running as I was able to start it, but not drive it as the fuel filter was almost solid and the the brakes stayed on (the dreaded dead rubber hose syndrome).The only things bad are the paint (most dead) and a welded rear end. The vintage groups around here do not allow welded rear ends, and since I have a couple of Detroit units out of previous endeavors, I will put a locker in the car. Another person has a Quaiffe unit for sale and as I will need a spare diff unit, I may purchase that as a spare. (Hence my questions about the Quaiffe/Detroit preference. I have used the Detroit units in TR's previously, but never a Quaiffe.) Post Purchase Regrets: None, looks like a good car and with a quick rebuild I should be on the track again this summer. Woo-Hoo Can't wait to go get greasy... Nick in Nor Cal From beeline@iline.com Mon Mar 1 06:40:13 1999 From: Russ Moore To: Andrew Mace Date: Fri, 05 Mar 1999 11:27:31 -0500 Subject: Re: Diffs and Wheels Andy, Didn't the Mk 4 have a 4.10:1 diff to compensate for the rotten hp specs after the emissions changes? The 1500 definately had the 3.89 in the US, but the mk4 had the 4.10 in the US. I bought up TRF's stock of these years ago and use them in the race car. definately 4.10, but the later style that fits the better designed 1500 diff! Russ At 10:43 AM 3/5/99 -0500, you wrote: >On Fri, 5 Mar 1999, Bob Lang wrote: > >> The GT6 had several ratios - 3.27 and 3.89 included. If you have a higher >> ratio, it is likely out of one of the other Herald derivatives. Spitfires >> had 4.10 gears on some of the earlier cars, for example. However, Andy >> Mace would be the authority on what ratios would be available. > >Whether they'll all fit all diff's, I'm not sure, but the "Small Cars" >used, at various times: > >3.27 GT6 >3.63 Spit 1500 UK >3.89 Spit Mk.IV (and 1500 USA), also some OD-equipped GT6s >4.11 Herald, early Spit, early Vitesse/Sports 6 >4.55 Herald 948 twin-carb, also Triumph (Standard) 10, in solid rear axle >4.875 Herald 948 single carb >5.143 (gasp! That was "special order only" for Heralds) > >I think that's all of them, unless the early TR7s had yet another ratio, >such as 3.45(?) -- again, it was the same center section, more or less. > >--Andy > >* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * >* Andrew Mace, President and * >* 10/Herald/Vitesse (Sports 6) Consultant * >* Vintage Triumph Register * >* amace@unix2.nysed.gov * >* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * > From beeline@iline.com Mon Mar 1 06:40:13 1999 From: "Greg Solow" To: "R. KASTNER" , , Date: Fri, 5 Mar 1999 08:12:08 -0800 Subject: Re: Diff Differences... For my Morgan +4 I have both a welded 4.11 and a clutch type "positraction" limited slip 3.77 axles. The welded axle behaves just as Kas says, as you go into a corner, you must be "on the gas" if you expect the car to turn in, so if you are going to fast, and your natural inclination is to lift, the car will just go straight . It can be quite scary. You need to know the car and be very familiar with the course to go fast safely. You steer the car with power to a large extent. The clutch type limited slip has been modified so that there is no preload on the clutches. This is done by removing all of the "spring" clutch plates,(the curved ones) and replacing them with flat clutches. The housing is machined if necessary to get a total of .010" end float on the stack of clutches. With this setup the diff behaves as if it were a Detriot Locker. Whenever you are on the gas the clutches lock up, when you are off the gas the diff unlocks. There is no slippage that occurs as with a normally set up "poitraction" so there is no heat build up. The more gas and power applied the tighter the clutches are locked up. There is not the harsh ratcheting that the D.L. gives as it lock.s and unlocks. With this setup if you back off going into a corner the diff is "open and the car will turn in as if it had a normal open diff. As soon as you apply any gas the diff locks up. There is an attitude change that is noticeable when the diff locks and unlocks. Regards, Greg Solow -----Original Message----- From: R. KASTNER To: BillDentin@AOL.COM ; FOT@autox.team.net Date: Thursday, March 04, 1999 5:18 PM Subject: Re: Diff Differences... >I have a couple of comments on the rear locker situation. First off, the >competition department paid for the tooling to make the lockers for all the >Triumph cars. I know cause I had to find the money to pay for them. Now on to >handling of the various lockers etc. The locker is strong, dependable but will >give some understeer. The clutch type diff will have a lot less understeer but >is not as strong driving out of the corner cause it does slip and it also produces >a lot of heat because of this slippage. On our Sebring cars in 1966 it was >necessary to run a diff cooler cause in an hours practice they all (four) burned >out the pinion seals and leaked like sieves. I have run TR-3' s with a welded >diff and if you want understeer baby this will give it to you. But boy you talk >about drive off the corner, when you have it set it beats anything.The welded diff >stops you from pointing the front in early without being on the gas. If you are >good this is okay but if not you are still on the gas when you are gone. By choice >I used the Detroit locker because it was always there and did the job. Work out >the little understeer with suspension settings. > >BillDentin@aol.com wrote: > >> Nick: >> >> Except for about eighteen months in the mid-1970s, my TR3 has been a RACE CAR >> all its life. I have logged about one hundred and seventy-five events myself. >> The car came with a Detroit Locker and a 4:1 ring and pinion. It is an >> incredible piece of equipment. I understand it was developed for a light >> truck, so it is VERY stout. A couple times each year it will make a noise >> like the rear end fell out, that is because it is mechanical, and has no >> clutches. But when we take it apart and examine it, it still looks like brand >> new. I can't believe it. I love it. >> >> Last year we won the E-Production part of SVRA's BADGER 200 at ROAD AMERICA. >> Don't be impressed...two hundred miles is a long way, and we just broke later >> than everyone else. While we were still running at the end, we had a broken >> ring and pinion. Again, when we rebuilt, we found the Locker was just fine. >> >> Bob Wismer and I are running a Quaiffe in the Thunder Bolt. It is similar, >> and smoother. It is more modern, and has clutches. I am sure it is easier on >> the drive line. We like it, but have not run it long enough to judge its long >> term dependability, and based on my TR3's experience, how important can that >> be? >> >> Last summer we set up two more axles...a 4:55 and a 3:73. The 4:55 has a >> locker in it, and the 3:73 is welded. I know the vast majority of old TR >> racers will tell you a welded rear end is 'the way to go' (and that is based >> on economies), but I can't subscribe to that. All you have to do is push a >> car with a welded rear end around a parking lot to decide a 'Locker or >> Quaiffe' is money well spent. >> >> Bill Dentinger >> >> Last year we se > > > > From beeline@iline.com Mon Mar 1 06:40:13 1999 From: Andrew Mace To: Russ Moore Date: Fri, 5 Mar 1999 13:09:50 -0500 () Subject: Re: Diffs and Wheels On Fri, 5 Mar 1999, Russ Moore wrote: > Andy, > Didn't the Mk 4 have a 4.10:1 diff to compensate for the rotten hp specs > after the emissions changes? The 1500 definately had the 3.89 in the US, > but the mk4 had the 4.10 in the US. I bought up TRF's stock of these years > ago and use them in the race car. definately 4.10, but the later style that > fits the better designed 1500 diff! Technically, it was a 4.11:1, and it was only for the 1972 model year, the first (and only) year of the low-compression 1296 (UE suffix) engine, with it's whopping 48 hp or so (compared to the 1971's 60 or so hp). 1971 "Federal" Mk.IV's had the 3.89:1. --Andy * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Andrew Mace, President and * * 10/Herald/Vitesse (Sports 6) Consultant * * Vintage Triumph Register * * amace@unix2.nysed.gov * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * From beeline@iline.com Mon Mar 1 06:40:13 1999 From: Andrew Mace To: Greg Solow Date: Fri, 5 Mar 1999 13:12:29 -0500 () Subject: Re: Diff Differences... On Fri, 5 Mar 1999, Greg Solow wrote: > ...The welded axle behaves just as Kas says, as you > go into a corner, you must be "on the gas" if you expect the car to turn in, > so if you are going to fast, and your natural inclination is to lift, the > car will just go straight . It can be quite scary. You need to know the car > and be very familiar with the course to go fast safely. You steer the car > with power to a large extent.... Amen to that! The infamous "Hardly Boys RaceSpit 4" (ex-GP SCCA car from the 1960s and textbook example of Triumph's "V" parts and approved mod's; now very occasional autocrosser), has a welded 4.55:1 diff. It behaves pretty much exactly as you describe on a Solo II course! --Andy * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Andrew Mace, President and * * 10/Herald/Vitesse (Sports 6) Consultant * * Vintage Triumph Register * * amace@unix2.nysed.gov * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * From beeline@iline.com Mon Mar 1 06:40:13 1999 From: Catpusher@aol.com To: jwheeler@robus.com, fot@autox.team.net Date: Fri, 5 Mar 1999 13:42:29 EST Subject: Re: Diff Differences... In a message dated 3/5/99 8:17:37 AM EST, jwheeler@robus.com writes: << I used a welded rear end in my TR-4A race car for 23 years nad never had any problems. Mine was an IRS car, and when I was first setting it up I talked with Bob Tullius >> I have always run the Lockers (thank you Mr. K!) with fine results. Bob T did try to persuade me to weld the diff. We came to the "conclusion" that welding probably resulted in better lap times for a TR with IRS, but perhaps not for a solid axle car. I also was still flat towing the TR3 in those days, and a welded axle would not have worked very well for that. The only failures in thirty years of using lockers came at Laguan Seca shortly after GM reformulated their Locker oil (probably to comply with laws regarding oil from large sea creatures) I lost two side gear dogs. The point of the story: the oil counts Redline heavy "Shock Proof" suggested, or 85-140W HP From beeline@iline.com Mon Mar 1 06:40:13 1999 From: GuyotLeonF@aol.com To: JELehman@ix.netcom.com, FOT Date: Fri, 5 Mar 1999 14:09:21 EST Subject: Re: Diffs and Wheels In a message dated 05/03/99 00:35:05 GMT Standard Time, JELehman@ix.netcom.com writes: << I asked if anyone knew anything about Cosmic wheels and never heard a word about it on the list. I really like these wheels and I contend that they're correct because they came with the car and we've been 15 years in restoration. That makes the almost period correct, no? John Lehman >> Cosmic wheels are correctly period for Triumphs. I had a set of Mk.2's on my Herald. Those are the most commonly found. They were current 1969-73 They are also found on Mini's (smaller) and TR's (larger) also Lotus etc etc... They also happen to be very high quality castings, made of LM.25 Alloy I think the alloy has a magnesium content, as they are very light at 11.4 lb on my Herald. I have now sold that car and those wheels with it. Shame. They were the best wheels that I have ever had. Keep on rolling Leon From beeline@iline.com Mon Mar 1 06:40:13 1999 From: "John Lehman" To: , "FOT" Date: Fri, 5 Mar 1999 14:35:15 -0500 Subject: Re: Diffs and Wheels << I asked if anyone knew anything about Cosmic wheels and never heard a word >about it on the list. I really like these wheels and I contend that they're >correct because they came with the car and we've been 15 years in restoration. >That makes the almost period correct, no? > > John Lehman >> > >Cosmic wheels are correctly period for Triumphs. >I had a set of Mk.2's on my Herald. >Those are the most commonly found. >They were current 1969-73 >They are also found on Mini's (smaller) and TR's (larger) >also Lotus etc etc... >They also happen to be very high quality castings, made of LM.25 Alloy >I think the alloy has a magnesium content, as they are very light at 11.4 lb >on my Herald. >I have now sold that car and those wheels with it. >Shame. >They were the best wheels that I have ever had. >Keep on rolling >Leon > That's pretty much what I hoped to hear. I think they look great and appear awfully stout, and they are indeed quite light weight. Thanks to all who replied. John Lehman From beeline@iline.com Mon Mar 1 06:40:13 1999 From: Malaboge@aol.com To: JELehman@ix.netcom.com, fot@autox.team.net Date: Sat, 6 Mar 1999 12:20:13 EST Subject: Re: Diffs and Wheels In a message dated 99-03-04 19:35:05 EST, you write: > >I asked if anyone knew anything about Cosmic wheels and never heard a word >about it on the list. I really like these wheels and I contend that they're >correct because they came with the car and we've been 15 years in >restoration. That makes the almost period correct, no? > >John Lehman John- I recall there being 2 major designs of Cosmic wheels (probably others.) One style was a sort of a spoke arangement similar to what was on Lotus Europas, which was OK. The second design (like I can describe this...) had squarish holes toward the outer part of the center section and the face of the wheel was "stepped" looking. These wheels were quite popular on many English cars and often showed up at the tracks until, rumor has it that more than a few of them broke in a big way. Most everyone stopped using that wheel pretty quick and the wheels dissappeared from the competition cars. If these are the wheels you have, I would crack check them religiously and retire them if they are even a little "suspect". Wheelie Cosmic Dude... Nick in Nor Cal From beeline@iline.com Mon Mar 1 06:40:13 1999 From: "ALAN N. TAYLOR" To: "John Lehman" , , Date: Sat, 06 Mar 1999 23:13:50 -0500 Subject: Re: Diffs and Wheels At 02:35 PM 3/5/99 -0500, John Lehman wrote: ><< I asked if anyone knew anything about Cosmic wheels and never heard a >word >>about it on the list. I really like these wheels and I contend that >they're >>correct because they came with the car and we've been 15 years in >restoration. >>That makes the almost period correct, no? >> >> John Lehman >> >> >>Cosmic wheels are correctly period for Triumphs. >>I had a set of Mk.2's on my Herald. >>Those are the most commonly found. >>They were current 1969-73 >>They are also found on Mini's (smaller) and TR's (larger) >>also Lotus etc etc... >>They also happen to be very high quality castings, made of LM.25 Alloy >>I think the alloy has a magnesium content, as they are very light at 11.4 >lb >>on my Herald. >>I have now sold that car and those wheels with it. >>Shame. >>They were the best wheels that I have ever had. >>Keep on rolling >>Leon >> > > >That's pretty much what I hoped to hear. I think they look great and appear >awfully stout, and they are indeed quite light weight. Thanks to all who >replied. > >John Lehman > > An ex-partner of mine bought an old English junkyard a few years ago. In one of the buildings were stacks of new Cosmic Mags still in the boxes. I know I saw 10's 12's and 15 inchers. I would think there were 13's also. His name is Barry Rosenberg and he owns British Car Service near Atlanta,Georgia. The phone # there is 770-432-8417. Don't leave a message and don't talk to anyone else. Just be persistent..............Alan Taylor From beeline@iline.com Mon Mar 1 06:40:13 1999 From: RDWISMER@aol.com To: Malaboge@aol.com Date: Sun, 7 Mar 1999 11:09:33 EST Subject: Re: Diff Differences... I have used both and continue to do so. I believe the physics say that the Quaiffe will permit more "differencing" than the Detroit Locker but it is smoother on engagement and disengagement. Many drivers find the "kicking in and out" of the Locker unnerving. I have found it too to effect the car only in wet conditions. If I was starting from scratch, I would go with the Quaiffe.................................Bob Wismer From beeline@iline.com Mon Mar 1 06:40:13 1999 From: Malaboge@aol.com To: fot@autox.team.net, vintage-race@autox.team.net Date: Sun, 7 Mar 1999 12:06:31 EST Subject: TR4A Questions Fellow Triumphers- Working on the "Duke of Oil" today (so aptly named by the ever popular Ms Ellie (Hardy's wife)), and while everything seems fine to me, just maybe a few rules have changed since the last time I donned Nomex... What's the hot lick for installing a good roll bar in the independent cars ? Does everyone tie into the top of the rear spring carrier, or try to attach to some other part of the frame. There doesn't look to be much in the way of options back there. The bar that came with the car bolts to the frame way up forward on the floor section and I am too tall and need to move the seat further back so the bar has got to go. And how big a fuel cell is adequate in this car. Is 8 enough, or is 10 (or even more) a better idea? What ever happenned to "run what ya brung"? Nick in Nor Cal From beeline@iline.com Mon Mar 1 06:40:13 1999 From: RDWISMER@aol.com To: fot@autox.team.net Date: Sun, 7 Mar 1999 13:18:54 EST Subject: NEW MEMBER NOMINATION Don Brick, TR4 vintage racer from Bettendorf Iowa, has gone electronic and wishes to be a member of FOT. He started vintage racing in 1987 in a street TR4 which has been upgraded over the years. He does 5 or 6 vintage races a year and is a charter member of the Beady Eye Vintage Triumph Racing Team [ see www.qconline.com/mize/beady.htm ]. Don is a great person and a good racer, he will be a good addition to the group. Lets hear from the members who know Don. Bob Wismer PS Don's email address is DONLBRICK@aol.com From beeline@iline.com Mon Mar 1 06:40:13 1999 From: jmwagner To: Malaboge@AOL.COM Date: Sun, 07 Mar 1999 10:28:22 -0800 Subject: Re: TR4A Questions Hi Nick, Being 6'3", I've been knocking around this roll bar placement thing for years.... My first TR 4A was IRS... a street car... but I never put a roll bar in because of my height and I knew it would have to be custom... so I didn't bother. My TR 4A driver now is solid axle... but has the IRS frame. I've been tinkering with putting a roll bar in it, just because I drive it with aero screens and a roll over would not be pretty. YET, my main roll bar dreams have been for yet another TR 4A IRS, that I have in storage, that I hope to put together as a vintage racer... so the roll bar designs keep swimming through my head.... Do I have the answer? Not really. I have mainly considered putting plate on the floor that extends out to where the body bolts down along the door frame... and then diagonally back, following along the top of where the frame is... back toward the center and rear. From this, I was going to build up along the rear seat and cap the edge with angle iron. So that the roll bar could sit on top of the rear seat (deck). I wanted to avoid having tubes going down behind the seat. I would put in diagonals from this angle iron down to the floor and/or from the floor to the verticle plate, but it would be minimal and only where it would not interfere with the seat. It all sounds rather heavy and complicated. I haven't done it yet. Nevertheless, I think it could be done in a fairly lightweight manner. In a hard roll, it might tweak down a bit... but the rear deck metal, trailing arms, and the upper rear spring cross structure piece... would certainly hold things together. Further, I have seen supporting diagonals go through the rear seat back... through the stock gas tank location... to the floor of the boot. Of course, in these cars, the fuel tank was relocated. With the tank in place... coming up with good ways to brace the frame are limited... (forward across the passenger's shoulder to the bases of the dash support is the obvious) This was not intended to be an answer, but rather... food for thought... and I will be watching the answers of those racers that have put together their own designs. My main reason for replying was this: I put together a composite of TR 4A frame/body drawings in order to provide me with a tool for designing/sketching my ideas. I wanted to provide the group with these. I know not everyone likes to receive jpegs... so anyone who is interested, please send me a note and I will send them to you. I think you will find them much easier to sketch on then a napkin.... I will try to get them on my web page, but for now... just drop me a note. --Justin Malaboge@aol.com wrote: > Fellow Triumphers- > > Working on the "Duke of Oil" today (so aptly named by the ever popular Ms > Ellie (Hardy's wife)), and while everything seems fine to me, just maybe a few > rules have changed since the last time I donned Nomex... > > What's the hot lick for installing a good roll bar in the independent cars ? > Does everyone tie into the top of the rear spring carrier, or try to attach to > some other part of the frame. There doesn't look to be much in the way of > options back there. The bar that came with the car bolts to the frame way up > forward on the floor section and I am too tall and need to move the seat > further back so the bar has got to go. > > And how big a fuel cell is adequate in this car. Is 8 enough, or is 10 (or > even more) a better idea? > > What ever happenned to "run what ya brung"? > Nick in Nor Cal From beeline@iline.com Mon Mar 1 06:40:13 1999 From: BillDentin@aol.com To: RDWISMER@aol.com, fot@autox.team.net Date: Sun, 7 Mar 1999 14:29:56 EST Subject: Re: NEW MEMBER NOMINATION Amici: I vote YES! Don is a GREAT driver, and a super friend. In 'equal equipment,' Don might just beat everyone. Don Brick has access to some of the World's BEST cheese. Deer Hunters always have 'Camp Meet,' well the Beady Eye VINTAGE TRIUMPH Racing Team usually has 'Paddock Cheese.' Don brings it to most events. Probably best known for the Baby Swiss, but also we enjoy the 'New Stuff' he tests on us. And the first time he brought Blue Cheese, well we thought he forgot to wash his feet, but after tasting it, we all fought over it. Welcome DON BRICK. Bill Dentinger From beeline@iline.com Mon Mar 1 06:40:13 1999 From: Mike Jackson To: RDWISMER@AOL.COM Date: Sun, 07 Mar 1999 17:07:46 -0500 Subject: Re: NEW MEMBER NOMINATION Spectacular! Don is just one of my favorite people and I'm overjoyed to hear he's gone electric. It's just a wonderful pleasure everytime I get a chance to see him when I make a race up in the midwest. He's an accurate driver that is a pleasure to see or watch on the track. Don is a perfect Friend of Triumph. And the cheese.....oh, my heavens....the bleu last summer was like food of the gods. Mike Jackson RDWISMER@aol.com wrote: > Don Brick, TR4 vintage racer from Bettendorf Iowa, has gone electronic > and wishes to be a member of FOT. He started vintage racing in 1987 in a > street TR4 which has been upgraded over the years. He does 5 or 6 vintage > races a year and is a charter member of the Beady Eye Vintage Triumph Racing > Team [ see www.qconline.com/mize/beady.htm ]. Don is a great person and a good > racer, he will be a good addition to the group. Lets hear from the members who > know Don. > > Bob Wismer > > PS Don's email address is DONLBRICK@aol.com From beeline@iline.com Mon Mar 1 06:40:13 1999 From: Richard Taylor To: "ALAN N. TAYLOR" , Date: Sun, 07 Mar 1999 19:26:13 -0500 Subject: Re: Diffs and Wheels At 11:13 PM 3/6/99 -0500, ALAN N. TAYLOR wrote: ...... Alan, Welcome aboard the FOT list. Your friendship at the track coupled with your experience and knowledge of British motor cars brings a lot to the group. You're a welcome addition.\ Richard Taylor Atlanta From beeline@iline.com Mon Mar 1 06:40:13 1999 From: JHarkness@aol.com To: RDWISMER@aol.com, fot@autox.team.net Date: Sun, 7 Mar 1999 21:03:32 EST Subject: Re: NEW MEMBER NOMINATION I had replied to Bob when I first saw this message with a hearty second to his nomination. Now I see other responses copied to the list, so I'll do likewise. Really can't think of a more appropriate nomination! I understand Don is planning to join the TR/MG battle at Mid Ohio for the first time in a few years. Can't wait! John Harkness From beeline@iline.com Mon Mar 1 06:40:13 1999 From: Jack Wheeler To: Malaboge@AOL.COM, fot@autox.team.net Date: Mon, 08 Mar 1999 06:50:49 -0500 Subject: Re: TR4A Questions In my SCCA EP race car, I tied the cage to the frame in 10 places - front shock towers (2), low front hoop (2), main hoop (2), rear spring towers (2), and the frame rails behind the rear spring towers (2). The chassis was very stiff, but I kept the suspension rather soft. The car handled very well. Also, I used a 12 gallon cell. However we used to have some long races (like a 15 lapper at Road America - 60 miles). Most of the vintage races I've seen are much shorter. At 12:06 PM 3/7/99 EST, you wrote: > >Fellow Triumphers- > > >Working on the "Duke of Oil" today (so aptly named by the ever popular Ms >Ellie (Hardy's wife)), and while everything seems fine to me, just maybe a few >rules have changed since the last time I donned Nomex... > >What's the hot lick for installing a good roll bar in the independent cars ? >Does everyone tie into the top of the rear spring carrier, or try to attach to >some other part of the frame. There doesn't look to be much in the way of >options back there. The bar that came with the car bolts to the frame way up >forward on the floor section and I am too tall and need to move the seat >further back so the bar has got to go. > >And how big a fuel cell is adequate in this car. Is 8 enough, or is 10 (or >even more) a better idea? > >What ever happenned to "run what ya brung"? > Nick in Nor Cal > From beeline@iline.com Mon Mar 1 06:40:13 1999 From: Russ Moore To: Date: Mon, 08 Mar 1999 10:15:25 -0500 Subject: Formula Lost Race! Amici, So there we were, a small group of compadres and myself, assembled to watch the first Formula 1 race Live on Speedvision from Australia. This being one step removed from a religous experience and awaited for the last month. The Guiness was at the proper temp, the snacks stood ready, all is well in the world. The promo came on, the program started and POOF! BLACK SCREEN!!!! ACCK! An instant later a call goes to HBO Direct only to find out there's some issue about no contract being signed. RATS! Anyone else experience this? Better yet, anyone else find a site or service that carried the race? Russ From beeline@iline.com Mon Mar 1 06:40:13 1999 From: Gt6steve@aol.com To: sbarr@mccarty-law.com Date: Mon, 8 Mar 1999 11:13:40 EST Subject: Re: GT6 suspension uprights In a message dated 3/8/99 5:58:25 AM Pacific Standard Time, sbarr@mccarty- law.com writes: << I seem to remember you mentioning that you had strengthened the suspension uprights on your GT6 after they failed. As I've got mine all apart at the moment, I spent some time yesterday cleaning and inspecting the uprights. I found a 1.5 inch crack on one of them at the lower attachment point, just inside of where it bolts to the side of the frame member. It's only the inner stamping that has cracked - the outer stamping looks ok. Is this where yours failed? What did you do to strengthen them? At the moment, I'm simply planning to take it in to the weld shop and have it welded up. And maybe magnaflux both of them. >> I'm a bit confused about where you found the crack but it is scary. The reinforcing on mine I believe you're referring to was at the A-arm pivot bolting to the frame, where we put the alignment shims. After the single fixing bolt pulled through on a high load corner I drilled the frame and put two bolts in ala TR-4. The cool part was that the frame member inside is there to support the bolts without crushing the frame. I guess they used the same insert for all the cars. I drilled the A-arm pivot and brazed in two new (and longer) bolts but using TR-4 pivots may have been easier. As far as the actual upright, they break at the base where the trunnion screws on. It'll snap at the top of the trunnion right about where the seal sits. I don't have a solution to this yet beyond frequent inspection. Years back I heard something about threading the oil hole and running in a long cap screw but I didn't get any FOT response when I queried this a while back. I was advised by Ted Schumacher to keep two sets and Magnaflux after every race. Seems sound advice. I'm gonna CC this to the group for others opinions Bye, Steve From beeline@iline.com Mon Mar 1 06:40:13 1999 From: Bob Lang To: Russ Moore Date: Mon, 08 Mar 1999 11:48:31 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: Formula Lost Race! On Mon, 8 Mar 1999, Russ Moore wrote: > Amici, > So there we were, a small group of compadres and myself, assembled to watch > the first Formula 1 race Live on Speedvision from Australia. This being one > step removed from a religous experience and awaited for the last month. The > Guiness was at the proper temp, the snacks stood ready, all is well in the > world. The promo came on, the program started and POOF! BLACK SCREEN!!!! > ACCK! > > An instant later a call goes to HBO Direct only to find out there's some > issue about no contract being signed. RATS! Anyone else experience this? > Better yet, anyone else find a site or service that carried the race? One word: Speedvision Not to rub salt in the wounds - it was a pretty cool race. Lots of unexpected happenings. I think they show it again tonite (Monday, 8-Mar-99). > Russ rml ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Bob Lang Room N42-140Q | This space for rent. Consultant MIT Computer Services | Voice: (617)253-7438 FAX: (617)258-9535 | ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From beeline@iline.com Mon Mar 1 06:40:13 1999 From: Mark J Bradakis To: Gt6steve@AOL.COM, sbarr@mccarty-law.com Date: Mon, 8 Mar 1999 10:13:01 -0700 (MST) Subject: Re: GT6 suspension uprights Sounds like you two aren't on the same page of the parts book. Scott's "upright" seems to be the stamped steel shock tower that bolts to the frame, to which the spring, shock and upper A arms attach. Steve's "upright" is the part of the suspension with the trunnion at the bottom and the ball joint at the top, to which the hub and brake caliper attach. In any case, both items that deserve routine checks for cracks. On another note, pulled the motor and gearbox out of the Killer Spit yesterday. Finally got to investigate the clutch problems. As those of you at VTR in Hudson may recall, we were having troubles with the clutch, with symptoms similar to having an air bubble in the hydraulics. The hydraulics were fine, and the remote bleeder pipe makes checking that pretty easy now. The problem was with the pressure plate. On the stock 1500 style clutch cover, there are three places where the pressure plate attaches to the diaphragm spring with a bolt and clamp arrangement. On Killer's clutch, one bolt was tight, one was ready to fall out, and one was bits of battered metal scattered through the bellhousing. So basically for the last half of the season we were only lifting at most half the pressure plate when stepping on the clutch. Cute. The clutch should work better when the car makes its next appearence. Should have an alloy flywheel, new clutch cover, different gearbox and an alloy bellhousing. The parts we plan to install should end up saving us on the order of 40 pounds. Gee, I wonder if losing 8 pounds or so off the flywheel will make any difference in the way the car behaves, other than the dead weight savings? mjb. From beeline@iline.com Mon Mar 1 06:40:13 1999 From: Russ Moore To: Mark J Bradakis , Gt6steve@AOL.COM, sbarr@mccarty-law.com Date: Mon, 08 Mar 1999 12:26:05 -0500 Subject: Re: GT6 suspension uprights Beware of alloy bellhousings! I ran one on my Spit for 5 years and when I removed it found multiple fractures in it. Not Good! It now adornes the wall. I have seen these explode into lots of shrapnel when a pressure plate comes apart inside them. I had a friend who almost lost her foot when this occurred in her Spridget. Everything's a balance in Vintage Racing. This one is safety vs weight. Scattershields can preveny injury if used with the alloy bellhousing. Choose wisely. Russ At 10:13 AM 3/8/99 -0700, Mark J Bradakis wrote: > >Sounds like you two aren't on the same page of the parts book. Scott's >"upright" seems to be the stamped steel shock tower that bolts to the frame, >to which the spring, shock and upper A arms attach. Steve's "upright" is the >part of the suspension with the trunnion at the bottom and the ball joint at >the top, to which the hub and brake caliper attach. > >In any case, both items that deserve routine checks for cracks. > >On another note, pulled the motor and gearbox out of the Killer Spit >yesterday. Finally got to investigate the clutch problems. As those of you >at VTR in Hudson may recall, we were having troubles with the clutch, with >symptoms similar to having an air bubble in the hydraulics. The hydraulics >were fine, and the remote bleeder pipe makes checking that pretty easy now. >The problem was with the pressure plate. On the stock 1500 style clutch >cover, there are three places where the pressure plate attaches to the >diaphragm spring with a bolt and clamp arrangement. On Killer's clutch, one >bolt was tight, one was ready to fall out, and one was bits of battered metal >scattered through the bellhousing. So basically for the last half of the >season we were only lifting at most half the pressure plate when stepping on >the clutch. Cute. > >The clutch should work better when the car makes its next appearence. Should >have an alloy flywheel, new clutch cover, different gearbox and an alloy >bellhousing. The parts we plan to install should end up saving us on the >order of 40 pounds. Gee, I wonder if losing 8 pounds or so off the flywheel >will make any difference in the way the car behaves, other than the dead >weight savings? > >mjb. > From beeline@iline.com Mon Mar 1 06:40:13 1999 From: Mark J Bradakis To: FOT@autox.team.net Date: Mon, 8 Mar 1999 12:12:42 -0700 (MST) Subject: Re: GT6 suspension uprights I'm only a little worried about the alloy bellhousing. Given that it is for an autocross only car, with a rather modest rev limit (6200?) the chances of the clutch or flywheel or whatever coming apart are slim. More than zero, I will admit, but pretty small. A sheidl of some sort may be in order, though, hmm... mjb. From beeline@iline.com Mon Mar 1 06:40:13 1999 From: "Barr, Scott" To: "'Mark J Bradakis'" Date: Mon, 8 Mar 1999 13:38:11 -0600 Subject: RE: Exploding flywheels (was GT6 suspension uprights) Ok, now that we're on the topic, when a flywheel comes apart, where does it generally go? Does the flywheel shrapnel move outward in the plane of the flywheel's orientation, as my limited knowledge of physics tells me it should? If the flywheel is forward of the driver's feet is the risk less? or are we worried about chunks of flywheel, bellhousing, etc. moving in different directions? Better safe than sorry, of course, but ... Scott > -----Original Message----- > From: Mark J Bradakis [SMTP:mjb@cs.utah.edu] > Sent: Monday, March 08, 1999 1:13 PM > To: FOT@autox.team.net > Subject: Re: GT6 suspension uprights > > > I'm only a little worried about the alloy bellhousing. Given that it > is for > an autocross only car, with a rather modest rev limit (6200?) the > chances of > the clutch or flywheel or whatever coming apart are slim. More than > zero, I > will admit, but pretty small. A sheidl of some sort may be in order, > though, > hmm... > > mjb. From beeline@iline.com Mon Mar 1 06:40:13 1999 From: Susan Hensley To: "Barr, Scott" Date: Mon, 08 Mar 1999 14:01:31 -0600 Subject: Re: Exploding flywheels (was GT6 suspension uprights) Hi all! As the owner of Tristan, who has an alloy bellhousing and subsequent foot shield, and being the recipient of stories about what has happened to whom (read: no personal experience... :), what I have heard is that the flywheel disintegrates and spallates outward usually in the plane of the wheel. Here comes the problem for your tootsies, however, in that when it meets the bellhousing and breaks through it, pieces are deflected and no longer follow the plane of the wheel. They can scatter and spray the footwell in many directions, usually with the bulk of the wheel still escaping in the previous plane, but with fragmented housing going forward and back as well. I am doubly glad for my scatter shield, since when I opened the trans last year to replace the clutch, I found something had already gone south in the housing and basically chewed the inside of the housing and the throwout arm up (way before I got the car). Looks like shot peening gone bad -- like with marbles instead of tiny shot. So it is weakened, and if the wheel goes south, the shield will help protect my feet. Since I will only be autocrossing Tristan this year, I am not horribly worried about it, but I will be in the market for another alloy housing for a Spit, definitely before getting back on the track. Any ideas? Hope this helps! Keep Triumphing, Susan :) Barr, Scott wrote: > > Ok, now that we're on the topic, when a flywheel comes apart, where does > it generally go? Does the flywheel shrapnel move outward in the plane > of the flywheel's orientation, as my limited knowledge of physics tells > me it should? If the flywheel is forward of the driver's feet is the > risk less? or are we worried about chunks of flywheel, bellhousing, etc. > moving in different directions? > > Better safe than sorry, of course, but ... > > Scott > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Mark J Bradakis [SMTP:mjb@cs.utah.edu] > > Sent: Monday, March 08, 1999 1:13 PM > > To: FOT@autox.team.net > > Subject: Re: GT6 suspension uprights > > > > > > I'm only a little worried about the alloy bellhousing. Given that it > > is for > > an autocross only car, with a rather modest rev limit (6200?) the > > chances of > > the clutch or flywheel or whatever coming apart are slim. More than > > zero, I > > will admit, but pretty small. A sheidl of some sort may be in order, > > though, > > hmm... > > > > mjb. From beeline@iline.com Mon Mar 1 06:40:13 1999 From: "R. John Lye" To: "Barr, Scott" , Date: Mon, 08 Mar 1999 15:19:06 -0500 Subject: RE: Exploding flywheels (was GT6 suspension uprights) At 01:38 PM 3/8/99 -0600, Barr, Scott wrote: >Ok, now that we're on the topic, when a flywheel comes apart, where does >it generally go? I've only seen a few flywheels come apart, so I don't know how general my observations are, given the limited data set. >Does the flywheel shrapnel move outward in the plane >of the flywheel's orientation, as my limited knowledge of physics tells >me it should? Yeah, pretty much - although the shrapnel's path is often deflected by large objects (like bellhousings, etc.) that might be in the way. The general path of the flying objects tends to be radial, in general. >If the flywheel is forward of the driver's feet is the >risk less? Hmmmmm, I suppose so, but I don't know of many cars (other than, say, rear engine formula cars) where some part of the driver's body is not in the radial path of the clutch/flywheel area. >Better safe than sorry, of course, but ... Indeed. NHRA approved scatter blankets aren't that expensive or heavy... (the steel scattershield in my TR-4, however, is quite heavy, but I don't mind too much). John Lye '59 TR-3A, '62 TR-4, '70 GT-6+ email: rjl6n@virginia.edu homepage: http://avery.med.virginia.edu/~rjl6n/homepage.htm From beeline@iline.com Mon Mar 1 06:40:13 1999 From: "Irv Korey" To: Date: Mon, 8 Mar 1999 14:27:28 -0600 Subject: yet another new member nomination I would like to nominate Dave Wingett for inclusion in the FOT list. Dave lives in suburban Detroit and has been involved with TR6's for the 15 or so years that I have know him. He is currently campaigning an EP TR6. Dave's email address is elkhorn@megsinet.net Thanks, Irv Korey 74 TR6 CF22767U TR4A CT52499 VSCDA Group 2 #58 (debuting this spring) Highland Park, IL From beeline@iline.com Mon Mar 1 06:40:13 1999 From: bob bownes To: Susan Hensley , "Barr, Scott" Date: Mon, 08 Mar 1999 15:30:42 -0500 Subject: Re: Exploding flywheels Q: Where does an exploding flywheel go? A: Anywhere it wants. Iron or alloy bellhousing, Solo or Road Race, if you've tweaked it, get a scattershield. When mine separated from the crankshaft as I crossed S/F one time, I was very reassured knowing the scattershild was there. Didn't need it thank goodness, but it was there. From beeline@iline.com Mon Mar 1 06:40:13 1999 From: Mark J Bradakis To: FOT@autox.team.net Date: Mon, 8 Mar 1999 13:41:53 -0700 (MST) Subject: Re: yet another new member nomination Given that a few folks were added in the last week or so, I figured it was time to send out the current roster. mjb. ---- Joe Alexander Sean Alexander Mark Alexander Nick B Bill Babcock Jery Barr Scott Barr Roger Beasley Steve Benford Bob Gary Blihovde Chip Bond Bob Bownes klm@emi.com Vern Brannon Don Brick Bill Burroughs Dan Buxner Ed Ceilley Nike Cook Baxter Culver Bill Dentinger Jack Drews Tony Drews Mordy Dunst Dan Duryea Mike Engard John Fridirici Henry Frye John Frymark Pete Fullam Ken Gillanders Leon Guyot Chuck Gee John Harkness Susan Hensley Jim_Hill@chsra.wisc.edu Hone_Richard_A@code80.npt.nuwc.navy.mil John Houlton John Hornbostel Neal Howard Kent Howard Mike Jackson Jeff Jankiewicz Chris Kantarjiev Doug Karon Kas Kastner Arthur Kelly Irv Korey Bob Kramer Bob Lang John Lehman John Lye Andy Mace Bill Manning Don Marshall Pat McMullen Jeff Mennen Russ Moore Rick Morris Henry Morrison Clark Nicholls Kevin O'Driscoll Bob Paul Cary Perket Hardy Prentice Pugs Pivirotto Paul-Richardson@cyberware.co.uk Pat Ryan Ted Schumacher Steve Smith Paul Smock Jeff Snook Bill Sohl Greg Solow Dave Spiwak Tom Strange Tim Suddard Alan Taylor Richard Taylor Justin Wagner TeriAnne Wakeman Bill Warner Bob Watkin Dale Will Dave eWingett Bob Wismer Jack Wheeler George Wright tr4racer@ESINET.NET jonmac@ndirect.co.uk matthews-home@worldnet.att.net chadd@zeus.odyssey.net From beeline@iline.com Mon Mar 1 06:40:13 1999 From: Andrew Mace To: Mark J Bradakis Date: Mon, 8 Mar 1999 16:03:50 -0500 (EST) Subject: "Killer"'s clutch; was Re: GT6 suspension uprights On Mon, 8 Mar 1999, Mark J Bradakis wrote: > The clutch should work better when the car makes its next appearence. Should > have an alloy flywheel, new clutch cover, different gearbox and an alloy > bellhousing. The parts we plan to install should end up saving us on the > order of 40 pounds. Gee, I wonder if losing 8 pounds or so off the flywheel > will make any difference in the way the car behaves, other than the dead > weight savings? Hopefully you're not like me, Mark. I tend to put about 10-20 lbs on over each winter. So certainly for an early spring event, one would hardly notice that weight savings on the Hardly Boys RaceSpit 4. However, by mid-summer I'm usually back to "fighting" weight. ;-) --Andy * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Andrew Mace, President and * * 10/Herald/Vitesse (Sports 6) Consultant * * Vintage Triumph Register * * amace@unix2.nysed.gov * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * From beeline@iline.com Mon Mar 1 06:40:13 1999 From: Mark J Bradakis To: amace@UNIX2.NYSED.GOV Date: Mon, 8 Mar 1999 14:06:37 -0700 (MST) Subject: Re: "Killer"'s clutch; was Re: GT6 suspension uprights Well, sometimes "Team Fat" is a tad too literal. mjb. From beeline@iline.com Mon Mar 1 06:40:13 1999 From: Andrew Mace To: Amici Triumphi Date: Mon, 8 Mar 1999 16:15:08 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: Exploding flywheels (was GT6 suspension uprights) I don't recall the Hardly Boys RaceSpit4 ever having an alloy bellhousing while we've had it -- 16 years now -- but I've got one for it, thanks to a surplus early Herald or two. :-) Interestingly enough, it has one "outward" crack in it...where, apparently, a starter drive exploded!? Go figure. But the HBRS4 does and always has had a very stout scattershield bolted to the chassis. The shield appears to be made out of at least 1/4" plate and "covers" a fairly wide area. Considering where one's feet are in a Spitfire, I guess I'm just as happy for the protection! --Andy * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Andrew Mace, President and * * 10/Herald/Vitesse (Sports 6) Consultant * * Vintage Triumph Register * * amace@unix2.nysed.gov * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * From beeline@iline.com Mon Mar 1 06:40:13 1999 From: Andrew Mace To: Mark J Bradakis Date: Mon, 8 Mar 1999 16:20:08 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: "Killer"'s clutch; was Re: GT6 suspension uprights On Mon, 8 Mar 1999, Mark J Bradakis wrote: > Well, sometimes "Team Fat" is a tad too literal. > > mjb. And -- SIGH -- at least three quarters of the year I can meet that literal definition/qualification! :-) --Andy From beeline@iline.com Mon Mar 1 06:40:13 1999 From: Malaboge@aol.com To: fot@autox.team.net Date: Mon, 8 Mar 1999 16:40:30 EST Subject: Scattershields and flying bits Fellow FOT'ers and Foot Fetishists (pedalphiles?) Thank goodness I have never "exploded" a flywheel, but I have had one get loose in there. What a mess. It literally "chopped" the trans in two at about 4500 rpm (oddly enough the motor never quit) Even with a scattershield, it took a very long time to stop as my feet were pulled up to around my waist til the noise stopped! Back in my salad days when racin meant in a straight line, I have seen a few flywheels "fly". Not only do they take a heavy toll on flesh, they can tear up a car pretty well. The floor and tunnel get shredded and the dash usually takes a heavy dose, often trying to push it out through the windshield. All in all, not something that you ever want to experience. Scattered enough as I am... Nick in Nor cal From beeline@iline.com Mon Mar 1 06:40:13 1999 From: "Irv Korey" To: "Andrew Mace" , "Mark J Bradakis" Date: Mon, 8 Mar 1999 16:28:49 -0600 Subject: Re: was "Killer"'s clutch > From: Andrew Mace > Hopefully you're not like me, Mark. I tend to put about 10-20 lbs on over > each winter. So certainly for an early spring event, one would hardly > notice that weight savings on the Hardly Boys RaceSpit 4. However, by > mid-summer I'm usually back to "fighting" weight. ;-) > > --Andy Using the TRiumph bicycle easy weight off plan??? Irv From beeline@iline.com Mon Mar 1 06:40:13 1999 From: "R. John Lye" To: Malaboge@AOL.COM, fot@autox.team.net Date: Mon, 08 Mar 1999 17:26:20 -0500 Subject: Re: Scattershields and flying bits At 04:40 PM 3/8/99 EST, you wrote: >Not only do they take a heavy toll on flesh, they can tear up >a car pretty well. The floor and tunnel get shredded and the dash usually >takes a heavy dose, often trying to push it out through the windshield. All in >all, not something that you ever want to experience. One of the flywheel explosions that I've seen was a (real) 427 Cobra, fresh from the restoration shop - where they re-used a flywheel without checking it. The flywheel let go at the end of the long straight at Pueblo (CO) Motorsports Park. I don't know for sure how fast the engine was turning, but it was very ugly indeed. The firewall was wiped clean of everything mounted there, the hood was bulged up about 9 inches or so. The driver escaped with a broken ankle and a cut foot and felt very lucky that that was all the injury that he received. John Lye rjl6n@Virginia.edu From beeline@iline.com Mon Mar 1 06:40:13 1999 From: Susan Hensley To: Andrew Mace Date: Mon, 08 Mar 1999 16:39:25 -0600 Subject: Re: "Killer"'s clutch; was Re: GT6 suspension uprights Hah. I didn't think I was bad until I tried to fit into Phil's FFord yesterday. My problem is just being a tall female, I think -- wide hipbones! Thanks Mom... Andrew Mace wrote: > > On Mon, 8 Mar 1999, Mark J Bradakis wrote: > > > Well, sometimes "Team Fat" is a tad too literal. > > > > mjb. > > And -- SIGH -- at least three quarters of the year I can meet that > literal definition/qualification! :-) > > --Andy From beeline@iline.com Mon Mar 1 06:40:13 1999 From: "John Lehman" To: "FOT" Date: Mon, 8 Mar 1999 17:39:03 -0500 Subject: DCOEs and exploding flywheels This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_003D_01BE698A.8ED54F20 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Forgive my ignorance, but a DCOE is a diesel cab-over-engine, a 60's = model International Harvester tractor, no? I remember a DCOE exploded a = flywheel on one of our trucks way back when and the flywheel exited the = roof via the passenger seat. No passenger was present, but no amount of = Preparation H would have helped the poor soul had he been there. What is the preferred material for scattershields? There's one on my = GT6. The flywheel's about at my ankles and I'd like to make sure that = it's up to the job. Is there any added danger to running either a = lightened or alloy flywheel? John Lehman ------=_NextPart_000_003D_01BE698A.8ED54F20 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Forgive my ignorance, but a DCOE is = a diesel=20 cab-over-engine, a 60's model International Harvester tractor, no?  = I=20 remember a DCOE exploded a flywheel on one of our trucks way back when = and the=20 flywheel exited the roof via the passenger seat.  No passenger was = present,=20 but no amount of Preparation H would have helped the poor soul had he = been=20 there.
 
What is the preferred material for = scattershields? =20 There's one on my GT6.  The flywheel's about at my ankles and I'd = like to=20 make sure that it's up to the job.  Is there any added danger to = running=20 either a lightened or alloy flywheel?
 
John Lehman
------=_NextPart_000_003D_01BE698A.8ED54F20-- From beeline@iline.com Mon Mar 1 06:40:13 1999 From: "John Lehman" To: "Andrew Mace" , "Mark J Bradakis" Date: Mon, 8 Mar 1999 17:45:32 -0500 Subject: Re: "Killer"'s clutch; was Re: GT6 suspension uprights >On Mon, 8 Mar 1999, Mark J Bradakis wrote: > >> Well, sometimes "Team Fat" is a tad too literal. >> >> mjb. > >And -- SIGH -- at least three quarters of the year I can meet that >literal definition/qualification! :-) > >--Andy > The real telltale is when last year's driving suit is just a little snug across the middle! JEL From beeline@iline.com Mon Mar 1 06:40:13 1999 From: bob bownes To: "John Lehman" , Date: Mon, 08 Mar 1999 17:57:29 -0500 Subject: Re: "Killer"'s clutch; was Re: GT6 suspension uprights >The real telltale is when last year's driving suit is just a little snug >across the middle! > They have been known to shrink over the winter. iii From beeline@iline.com Mon Mar 1 06:40:13 1999 From: beaulieu@tiac.net (Beaulieu Advertising & Design) To: FOT@autox.team.net Date: Mon, 8 Mar 1999 18:16:41 -0400 Subject: Bell housing, Aluminum Okay guys; Since were giving war stories about aluminum bell housings, First after racing a Spit for 20 years, I a always assumed stress cracks were just a nature of the bease, I've re-welded mine up about three times now... Second, One NARRC Runoffs, I heard a hell of clanking coming from the bell housing... Made a lot of noise, but didn't seem to impair the performance of the vehicle... thought I had picked up a stone within.... after the race and further inquiry, pulled the system apart... The engine bulider (not me in this case) didn't tighten enough to backing plate bolts... damn thing in there shot peened the whole dam inside, flywheel, pressure plate and clutch... Talk about your proverbial vegamatic... I still have, what looks like a steel marble... its whats left of the bolt... R 32 GP Spitfire From beeline@iline.com Mon Mar 1 06:40:13 1999 From: Gt6steve@aol.com To: FOT@autox.team.net Date: Mon, 8 Mar 1999 19:26:49 EST Subject: I need a Carillo for GT6 I just got the news from Carillo that losing a rod bearing at Phoenix has damaged the rod beyond repair. They have replaced this older style with their new CNC rod and won't be able to make one for me for 3 months. I'm thinking of running the stock rods until I can get one made. Does anybody out there have any spare Carillo's for GT6 or Spitfire 1300? From beeline@iline.com Mon Mar 1 06:40:13 1999 From: Tony Drews To: FOT@autox.team.net Date: Mon, 08 Mar 1999 20:05:53 -0600 Subject: Re: yet another new member nomination Dang, I think we just reached critical mass! Lookout! - Tony Drews Mark J Bradakis wrote: > Given that a few folks were added in the last week or so, I figured it > was time to send out the current roster. > > mjb. > ---- > > Joe Alexander > Sean Alexander > Mark Alexander > < snip > > tr4racer@ESINET.NET > jonmac@ndirect.co.uk > matthews-home@worldnet.att.net > chadd@zeus.odyssey.net From beeline@iline.com Mon Mar 1 06:40:13 1999 From: BFEKENG@aol.com To: rjl6n@virginia.edu Date: Mon, 8 Mar 1999 22:04:31 EST Subject: Re: Scattershields and flying bits John,The TR-2 Drag Race car blew a preasure plate & flywheel at Orange County Drag Strip in 1970. Bob Boyd was driving & had just changed up from 2nd to 3rd. The scatter shield was 1/4 inch mild steel but appearently not soft enough as when clutch & flywheel blew it became part of the flying debris.Blew a hole in the hood after it had come up between firewall & battery box cutting main harness. Another piece went just over drivers foot, under the brake pedal & hit clutch pedal & drivers foot.It left quit a bulge in back of left front fender. There was frame damage & a unexplained hole in the transmission rear housing,which later was blamed on a piece that had hit the ground first.It is one horrible sight & took a long time to repair. Fortunately, Bob only had one cut in the bottom of his right foot but it was about 3.5" long & quite deep.I think he still has that boot with the sole torn off to remind to remind him that it can happen. Ken From beeline@iline.com Mon Mar 1 06:40:13 1999 From: "Greg Solow" To: "Barr, Scott" , Date: Mon, 8 Mar 1999 22:18:41 -0800 Subject: Re: Exploding flywheels (was GT6 suspension uprights) Once I saw an Alfa clutch explode on the start finish straight at Laguna Seca. Pieces fo the clutch were deflected off of the surface of the track and came up through the floor of the car. Greg Solow -----Original Message----- From: R. John Lye To: Barr, Scott ; 'Mark J Bradakis' Cc: 'fot@autox.team.net' Date: Monday, March 08, 1999 12:48 PM Subject: RE: Exploding flywheels (was GT6 suspension uprights) >At 01:38 PM 3/8/99 -0600, Barr, Scott wrote: >>Ok, now that we're on the topic, when a flywheel comes apart, where does >>it generally go? > >I've only seen a few flywheels come apart, so I don't know how general >my observations are, given the limited data set. > >>Does the flywheel shrapnel move outward in the plane >>of the flywheel's orientation, as my limited knowledge of physics tells >>me it should? > >Yeah, pretty much - although the shrapnel's path is often deflected by >large objects (like bellhousings, etc.) that might be in the way. The >general path of the flying objects tends to be radial, in general. > >>If the flywheel is forward of the driver's feet is the >>risk less? > >Hmmmmm, I suppose so, but I don't know of many cars (other than, say, >rear engine formula cars) where some part of the driver's body is not >in the radial path of the clutch/flywheel area. > >>Better safe than sorry, of course, but ... > >Indeed. NHRA approved scatter blankets aren't that expensive or >heavy... (the steel scattershield in my TR-4, however, is quite >heavy, but I don't mind too much). > >John Lye > >'59 TR-3A, '62 TR-4, '70 GT-6+ >email: rjl6n@virginia.edu >homepage: http://avery.med.virginia.edu/~rjl6n/homepage.htm > From beeline@iline.com Mon Mar 1 06:40:13 1999 From: Bob Lang To: fot@autox.team.net Date: Tue, 09 Mar 1999 10:35:53 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: Scattershields and flying bits Hi, Just wanted to chine in here - if you don't know what a "scattershield" is, it is basically a blanket of some sort of "ballistic" material, such as Kevlar(tm)... the idea is that as the "shield" dissipates the energy of the flying pieces before they can hurt you (or others!). Think bullet-proof vest. I too have seen some damage from flywheels gone haywire. Not pretty. I think I'll pull out my Summit catalog tonite and figure out what sort of suitable device they have for my car. C ya. rml ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Bob Lang Room N42-140Q | This space for rent. Consultant MIT Computer Services | Voice: (617)253-7438 FAX: (617)258-9535 | ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From beeline@iline.com Mon Mar 1 06:40:13 1999 From: "jonmac" To: Date: Tue, 9 Mar 1999 15:12:45 -0000 Subject: Emergency Parts Kit I'm planning a 5 - 6 hour drive to Maine this May. I've had my Spit for a little over 2 years now, but have never gone more than 100- 150 miles at any one time. I've stayed off the Interstates because of concerns about running the car at higher rpm's and the interstates aren't any fun. What I'd like to do is put together an emergency kit and was looking for advice from the experienced listers.( Not to be pessimistic , my AAA is paid up .) Actually the only breakdown I've experienced on the road was a broken accelerator cable. I enjoy reading about other people's cars and repairs but I really like hearing about where people drive their cars. Hans and listers Make your Triumph boot (trunk) look authentic from now onwards - especially if you're going to VTR this year and want to take a few bits with you - just in case. I've copied (as accurately as I can) the label and contents of a GENUINE factory CONTINENTAL TOURING KIT with box dimensions from one still in my possession. Like me, the box is looking a bit faded, but UNlike me, the contents still work - or ought to! I haven't tried them out for a while. Feel free to print it off and apply the label to your box of bits. Comes with my compliments. You'll find the label at http://www.toolbox.ndirect.co.uk/touringkit John Mac Book 1: http://www.toolbox.ndirect.co.uk/triumphbook Book 2: http://www.toolbox.ndirect.co.uk/crocus Triumph Over Triumph magazine: http://www.cyberware.co.uk/~chips11 From beeline@iline.com Mon Mar 1 06:40:13 1999 From: Alexander Joseph H To: "'Amici Triumphi'" Date: Tue, 9 Mar 1999 11:07:40 -0600 Subject: Mid-Ohio, SVRA and the FOT Amici Triumphi, et. al. Entrance/Attendance/Display Summary OK folks...This is the list of people with the best guess I can make for attendance, entry, or no show...and expected vehicle. Corrections/Additions Solicited Another pass or two and I might put out a spreadsheet. It is coming together. A couple questions: Is there any reason why Greg Petrolati is no longer on the FOT list? I also thought we had added Dick Jensen in at one time? Bob Kamholtz should be on it, if he wishes to join us. Who do you know that may enter that is NOT on the list? (BTW, Welcome aboard, long term friend, Don Brick) Mark Palmer, MG Vintage Racers, is working on a very nice MG/TR poster and perhaps some other driver favors with our respective logos on them. A FOT member has a proposal in for pit clocks that might be available for sale. Mark is also working on a "sponsored barbecue". We continue to work with local (and not so local clubs) for attendance enmasse as was done in 1992. Hard to duplicate that one, but half of the cars in attendance would make an unqualified success. Joe Alexander Yes....Joe Alexander Co-Drive TR4 Yes....Sean Alexander Co-drive TR4 ???....Mark Alexander No.....Nick B No.....Bill Babcock ???....Jerry Barr Yes....Scott Barr Attend Yes....Roger Beasley Drive TR4 Yes....Steve Benford Attend ???....Bob ???....Gary Blihovde No.....Chip Bond ???....Bob Bownes Yes....Vern Brannon Drive TR8 Yes....Don Brick Drive TR4 No.....Bill Burroughs Yes....Dan Buxner Drive TR4 Yes....Ed Ceilley Drive GT6 ???....Nike Cook No.....Baxter Culver Yes....Bill Dentinger Drive Thunderbolt Yes....Jack Drews Co-Drive TR4 Yes....Tony Drews Co-Drive TR4 Yes....Mordy Dunst Drive TR4 Yes....Dan Duryea Drive GT6 Yes....Mike Engard Display Italia No.....John Fridirici Yes....Henry Frye Attend ???....John Frymark No.....Pete Fullam Yes....Ken Gillanders Attend No.....Leon Guyot No.....Chuck Gee Yes....John Harkness Drive TR3 Yes....Susan Hensley Attend Yes....Jim_Hill@chsra.wisc.edu Drive TR6 Yes....Hone_Richard_A@code80.npt.nuwc.navy.mil Drive TR4 Yes....John Houlton Drive TR4 ???....John Hornbostel Yes....Neal Howard Co-Drive TR3 Yes....Kent Howard Co-Drive TR3 Yes....Mike Jackson Drive Devin? ???....Jeff Jankiewicz No.....Chris Kantarjiev ???....Doug Karon No.....Kas Kastner ???....Arthur Kelly No.....Irv Korey ???....Bob Kramer Yes....Bob Lang Attend Yes....John Lehman ???? Yes....John Lye Display TR4 No.....Andy Mace ???....Bill Manning Yes....Don Marshall Drive TR4 Yes....Pat McMullen Attend Yes....Jeff Mennen Drive GT6 Yes....Russ Moore Drive Spitfire Yes....Rick Morris Drive TR3 No.....Henry Morrison ???....Clark Nicholls No.....Kevin O'Driscoll No.....Bob Paul No.....Cary Perket No.....Hardy Prentice No.....Pugs Pivirotto No.....Paul-Richardson@cyberware.co.uk Yes....Pat Ryan Drive Spitfire (Sean) Yes....Ted Schumacher Attend ???....Steve Smith Yes....Paul Smock No.....Jeff Snook No.....Bill Sohl No.....Greg Solow Yes....Dave Spiwak ???....Tom Strange Yes....Tim Suddard Drive TR3 Yes....Alan Taylor Drive TR4 Yes....Richard Taylor Drive TR4 No.....Justin Wagner No.....TeriAnne Wakeman Yes....Bill Warner Drive TR6 ???....Bob Watkin No.....Dale Will ???....Dave eWingett No.....Bob Wismer No.....Jack Wheeler Yes....George Wright Drive TR4 tr4racer@ESINET.NET jonmac@ndirect.co.uk matthews-home@worldnet.att.net chadd@zeus.odyssey.net Non-FOT Yes...Richard Jensen Drive TR6 (should be on FOT) ???...?????? Drive TR4 Need to have names submitted that are not on the FOT list. Help From beeline@iline.com Mon Mar 1 06:40:13 1999 From: Jeff Snook To: Friends of Triumph Date: Tue, 09 Mar 1999 12:22:04 -0500 Subject: Diffs Amici, Just a follow up on the Quaife/Detroit/Welded thread. I have always run a welded rear end in my TR3 as has my buddy Mike Jackson, cause that's what Guru Glen recommended. When we bought the Devin last year it came with a Quaife. Our first sessions in the car at Road Atlanta had us both convinced the thing was broken as we could not seem to get any power to the ground coming out of corners. So, we ended up taking it out and replacing it with a welded up dif. Now that I hear the talk of how these things act, it sounds like the Quaife was OK and the problem was our driving style! Well, we are too old to change our driving style now, so if anyone out there wants a Quaife to try, we've got one for sale. Vroom, vroom, Jeff From beeline@iline.com Mon Mar 1 06:40:13 1999 From: Jeff Snook To: Friends of Triumph Date: Tue, 09 Mar 1999 12:23:02 -0500 Subject: Re: NEW MEMBER NOMINATION Welcome to the list Don Brick. I have had loads of fun racing with him and those other "beady eye guys" over the years. Besides he always brings some good cheese to the track. Although I try to avoid the artery clogging cheese, he also brings some spare TR parts that he has been kind enough to loan me on occasion. The good part is he also brings his wife, Dawn, to the track who is as much fun (or more) than Don. Vroom, vroom, Jeff RDWISMER@aol.com wrote: > > Don Brick, TR4 vintage racer from Bettendorf Iowa, has gone electronic > and wishes to be a member of FOT. He started vintage racing in 1987 in a > street TR4 which has been upgraded over the years. He does 5 or 6 vintage > races a year and is a charter member of the Beady Eye Vintage Triumph Racing > Team [ see www.qconline.com/mize/beady.htm ]. Don is a great person and a good > racer, he will be a good addition to the group. Lets hear from the members who > know Don. > > Bob Wismer > > PS Don's email address is DONLBRICK@aol.com From beeline@iline.com Mon Mar 1 06:40:13 1999 From: John Suchak To: jonmac Date: Tue, 09 Mar 1999 12:26:35 -0500 Subject: Re: Emergency Parts Kit Emergency kit? Simple. Here's the contents of mine: Cell Phone AAA Premier Membership Paperback (to read while waiting for AAA) John jonmac wrote: > > I'm planning a 5 - 6 hour drive to Maine this May. I've had my Spit for a > little over 2 years now, but have never gone more than 100- 150 miles at > any one time. I've stayed off the Interstates because of concerns about > running > the car at higher rpm's and the interstates aren't any fun. What I'd like > to do is put together an emergency kit and was looking for advice from the > experienced listers.( Not to be pessimistic , my AAA is paid up .) > Actually the only breakdown I've experienced on the road was a broken > accelerator > cable. I enjoy reading about other people's cars and repairs but I > really like hearing about where people drive their cars. > > Hans and listers > > Make your Triumph boot (trunk) look authentic from now onwards - especially > if you're going to VTR this year and want to take a few bits with you - just > in case. I've copied (as accurately as I can) the label and contents of a > GENUINE factory CONTINENTAL TOURING KIT with box dimensions from one still > in my possession. Like me, the box is looking a bit faded, but UNlike me, > the contents still work - or ought to! I haven't tried them out for a while. > Feel free to print it off and apply the label to your box of bits. Comes > with my compliments. You'll find the label at > http://www.toolbox.ndirect.co.uk/touringkit > > John Mac > > Book 1: http://www.toolbox.ndirect.co.uk/triumphbook > Book 2: http://www.toolbox.ndirect.co.uk/crocus > Triumph Over Triumph magazine: http://www.cyberware.co.uk/~chips11 From beeline@iline.com Mon Mar 1 06:40:13 1999 From: cak@dimebank.com (Chris Kantarjiev) To: HMENTZEN@AOL.COM, jonmac@ndirect.co.uk Date: Tue, 9 Mar 1999 10:06:00 -0800 Subject: Re: Emergency Parts Kit John, >From when does this touring kit date? The listing in my 4A's parts book shows more interesting contents, including an intake and an exhaust valve ... they must have been expecting *really* bad trouble! From beeline@iline.com Mon Mar 1 06:40:13 1999 From: Gregory Petrolati To: Alexander Joseph H Date: Tue, 9 Mar 1999 13:24:17 -0600 (CST) Subject: Re: Mid-Ohio, SVRA and the FOT On Tue, 9 Mar 1999, Alexander Joseph H wrote: > Amici Triumphi, et. al. > A couple questions: Is there any reason why Greg Petrolati is no longer on > the FOT list? I also thought we had added Dick Jensen in at one time? Bob > Kamholtz should be on it, if he wishes to join us. I ain't on the list???? When that happen???? If I'm not, please put me back on Please!?! Note my new address greenman62@hotmail.com > > Yes....Joe Alexander Co-Drive TR4 > Yes....Sean Alexander Co-drive TR4 > ???....Mark Alexander > No.....Nick B > No.....Bill Babcock > ???....Jerry Barr > Yes....Scott Barr Attend > Yes....Roger Beasley Drive TR4 > Yes....Steve Benford Attend > ???....Bob > ???....Gary Blihovde > No.....Chip Bond > ???....Bob Bownes > Yes....Vern Brannon Drive TR8 > Yes....Don Brick Drive TR4 > No.....Bill Burroughs > Yes....Dan Buxner Drive TR4 > Yes....Ed Ceilley Drive GT6 > ???....Nike Cook > No.....Baxter Culver > Yes....Bill Dentinger Drive Thunderbolt > Yes....Jack Drews Co-Drive TR4 > Yes....Tony Drews Co-Drive TR4 > Yes....Mordy Dunst Drive TR4 > Yes....Dan Duryea Drive GT6 > Yes....Mike Engard Display Italia > No.....John Fridirici > Yes....Henry Frye Attend > ???....John Frymark > No.....Pete Fullam > Yes....Ken Gillanders Attend > No.....Leon Guyot > No.....Chuck Gee > Yes....John Harkness Drive TR3 > Yes....Susan Hensley Attend > Yes....Jim_Hill@chsra.wisc.edu Drive TR6 > Yes....Hone_Richard_A@code80.npt.nuwc.navy.mil Drive TR4 > Yes....John Houlton Drive TR4 > ???....John Hornbostel > Yes....Neal Howard Co-Drive TR3 > Yes....Kent Howard Co-Drive TR3 > Yes....Mike Jackson Drive Devin? > ???....Jeff Jankiewicz > No.....Chris Kantarjiev > ???....Doug Karon > No.....Kas Kastner > ???....Arthur Kelly > No.....Irv Korey > ???....Bob Kramer > Yes....Bob Lang Attend > Yes....John Lehman ???? > Yes....John Lye Display TR4 > No.....Andy Mace > ???....Bill Manning > Yes....Don Marshall Drive TR4 > Yes....Pat McMullen Attend > Yes....Jeff Mennen Drive GT6 > Yes....Russ Moore Drive Spitfire > Yes....Rick Morris Drive TR3 > No.....Henry Morrison > ???....Clark Nicholls > No.....Kevin O'Driscoll > No.....Bob Paul > No.....Cary Perket YES!!! Greg Petrolati TR4 in the paddock > No.....Hardy Prentice > No.....Pugs Pivirotto > No.....Paul-Richardson@cyberware.co.uk > Yes....Pat Ryan Drive Spitfire (Sean) > Yes....Ted Schumacher Attend > ???....Steve Smith > Yes....Paul Smock > No.....Jeff Snook > No.....Bill Sohl > No.....Greg Solow > Yes....Dave Spiwak > ???....Tom Strange > Yes....Tim Suddard Drive TR3 > Yes....Alan Taylor Drive TR4 > Yes....Richard Taylor Drive TR4 > No.....Justin Wagner > No.....TeriAnne Wakeman > Yes....Bill Warner Drive TR6 > ???....Bob Watkin > No.....Dale Will > ???....Dave eWingett > No.....Bob Wismer > No.....Jack Wheeler > Yes....George Wright Drive TR4 > tr4racer@ESINET.NET > jonmac@ndirect.co.uk > matthews-home@worldnet.att.net > chadd@zeus.odyssey.net > > Non-FOT > > Yes...Richard Jensen Drive TR6 (should be on FOT) > ???...?????? Drive TR4 > Need to have names submitted that are not on the FOT list. Help > gpetrola@prairienet.org 1962 TR4 (CT4852L) "That's not a leak... My car is just marking its territory!" Greg Petrolati, Champaign, Illinois From beeline@iline.com Mon Mar 1 06:40:13 1999 From: Mark J Bradakis To: gpetrola@prairienet.org Date: Tue, 9 Mar 1999 12:49:48 -0700 (MST) Subject: Re: Mid-Ohio, SVRA and the FOT After a handful of bounces like this I tend to remove bad adresses: gpetrola@prairienet.org... Deferred: Connection refused by firefly.prairienet.org. I'll put you back on. mjb. From beeline@iline.com Mon Mar 1 06:40:13 1999 From: Bill Manning To: "'fot@autox.team.net'" , Date: Tue, 09 Mar 1999 12:10:01 +0000 Subject: Aluminum Flywheels Last year at the VARA qualifying race in Phoenix at PIR I, in my Spitfire, was trying to catch Steve Smith who was leading the race in his fire breathing GT6. I got caught in lapped traffic and Joe Siam in his Spitfire blew past. This got my adrenaline up and I slammed third gear at 7800 RPM. This sheared my flywheel bolts (ARP Super) and gave me the fireworks that we missed at the Fourth of July VARA race. My aluminum flywheel, still spinning at 7800 RPM ate my starter gear and scored the inside of my aluminum bell housing but was contained within the bell housing and did not cause permanent damage to me, my flywheel or the bell housing. Maybe I was lucky but I continue to use my aluminum flywheel and bell housing with confidence. Happy racing -Bill- VARA EP Spitfire #3 From beeline@iline.com Mon Mar 1 06:40:13 1999 From: Mike Jackson To: Friends of Triumph Date: Tue, 09 Mar 1999 16:43:33 -0500 Subject: Re: Diffs Jeff, it be broke. Limited slip it was not. We could get it repaired if you like. Jeff Snook wrote: > Amici, > > Just a follow up on the Quaife/Detroit/Welded thread. I have > always run a welded rear end in my TR3 as has my buddy Mike > Jackson, cause that's what Guru Glen recommended. When we bought > the Devin last year it came with a Quaife. Our first sessions in > the car at Road Atlanta had us both convinced the thing was > broken as we could not seem to get any power to the ground coming > out of corners. So, we ended up taking it out and replacing it > with a welded up dif. > > Now that I hear the talk of how these things act, it sounds like > the Quaife was OK and the problem was our driving style! Well, > we are too old to change our driving style now, so if anyone out > there wants a Quaife to try, we've got one for sale. > > Vroom, vroom, > > Jeff From beeline@iline.com Mon Mar 1 06:40:13 1999 From: Mike Jackson To: Friends of Triumph Date: Tue, 09 Mar 1999 17:01:39 -0500 Subject: Re: Mid-Ohio, SVRA and the FOT That's it, first Peter Krause pleads for mercy among a an oil slick of TRs (and I hate to see a grown man whimper), and now Rick Morris is comming to Mid-Ohio. Our attempt to enjoy a race was aborted at Road America a couple of years ago. Change my ride to the TR3, I'll find another way to get the Devin up to Snook. I see I'm gonna need the glove that fits as they say. Yo, Rick, has Gillanders ever told you that Mid-Ohio is my favorite track of all time? On a related topic, anyone interested in going to Mosport the following weekend for the July 4th holiday? Another great track upon which you can really scare yourself. Loads of track time for a very reasonable price. I'm seriously considering taking a second week of vacation to visit Toronto followed by racing before I head back south. Mike Jackson Alexander Joseph H wrote: > Amici Triumphi, et. al. > > Corrections/Additions Solicited > > Yes....Rick Morris Drive TR3 From beeline@iline.com Mon Mar 1 06:40:13 1999 From: Andrew Mace To: MWO Jeans & Fashion , Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 14:28:23 -0500 (EST) Subject: Another nomination for the list Amici: I will, for the most part, let Michael introduce himself and his car. He and I have been chatting a bit about his Spitfire, which just happens to be "ADU 7B"! Therefore, and with his permission, I wish to nominate Michael Moenstermann of Germany as a member of Amici Triumphi -- Friends of Triumph! is his e-mail address. --Andy * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Andrew Mace, President and * * 10/Herald/Vitesse (Sports 6) Consultant * * Vintage Triumph Register * * amace@unix2.nysed.gov * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * From beeline@iline.com Mon Mar 1 06:40:13 1999 From: Alexander Joseph H To: "'Amici Triumphi'" Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 13:54:54 -0600 Subject: TR4 TUB-Search Iowa based sportscar restoration shop is looking for good TR4/TR4A tub suitable for restoration project. Abandoned restoration project could be a candidate as nothing has been purchased for this project. I'd like to help him find one. Vern B, Russ M, Bob K., Bill B., Mordy D, anyone? I'd be willing to go as far as Los Angeles...I wonder why? No direct financial interest. I will be driving down to Florida next week and might be able to look at something there or Atlanta area. Thanks, Joe Alexander From beeline@iline.com Mon Mar 1 06:40:13 1999 From: Russ Moore To: Andrew Mace , Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 15:35:42 -0500 Subject: Re: Another nomination for the list I can second this one! Always good to see another piece of history located. The next question is of course, can he come to Mid-Ohio? Even if without the car, he would be most welcome in the Spitfire Squadron HQ. Any pictures or information on the current condition of the car and what it has been doing for the last 35 years would be also welcomed. Russ Moore At 02:28 PM 3/10/99 -0500, Andrew Mace wrote: >Amici: I will, for the most part, let Michael introduce himself and >his car. He and I have been chatting a bit about his Spitfire, which >just happens to be "ADU 7B"! Therefore, and with his permission, I >wish to nominate Michael Moenstermann of Germany as a member of Amici >Triumphi -- Friends of Triumph! > > is his e-mail address. > > >--Andy > >* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * >* Andrew Mace, President and * >* 10/Herald/Vitesse (Sports 6) Consultant * >* Vintage Triumph Register * >* amace@unix2.nysed.gov * >* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * > > From beeline@iline.com Mon Mar 1 06:40:13 1999 From: Alexander Joseph H To: "'Amici Triumphi'" Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 14:44:46 -0600 Subject: Aluminum Sump If anyone is interested in one of these subject pieces.... contact John it is in Tallahassee, FL If you are still building race cars...would you be interested in > one of the cast aluminum oil sumps? I was going to put it on my TR, but > it sticks down below the frame. I would be worried about speed bumps. From beeline@iline.com Mon Mar 1 06:40:13 1999 From: Russ Moore To: Alexander Joseph H , Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 16:43:00 -0500 Subject: Re: TR-4 Body I have a TR-4 which is free of rust and holes but had a low speed frontal collision on the LF corner. It has excellent RF fenders, Rear fenders and drivers door. TheLF fender suffered some. The tub itself is really quite good and is very sound. Some straightening on the LF corner is needed to the inner fender leading edge but it is not extreme. At this time the car is pretty much complete with a rebuilt engine and trans, and runs well. Interior is good and is complete also. Trunk lid is immaculate, bonnet available as is a lf fender. Inquire if interested: Russ Moore (607) 539-7442 From beeline@iline.com Mon Mar 1 06:40:13 1999 From: Bill Manning To: Triumph Mail List , Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 16:17:19 +0000 Subject: VARA Race Anyone who wants to cheer on the Triumphs should come out to the Vintage Auto Racing Association race (http://vararacing.com/) at Buttonwillow Raceway Park the weekend of March 27th & 28th for some good old fashoned road racing. There will be all sorts of racing from Formula Vees to A & B Production which has the big V-8 American Iron. E & F Production classes are always filled with Triumphs, MG's and other British cars. They promise an extra special event with lots of wonderful cars. VARA usually offers track tours during the lunch hour where for $20.00 you can take your car out on the track. Buttonwillow is located off the Interstate 5 Freeway near Bakersfield CA at the Lerdo Highway exit go west and take a left into the track. For information you can call VARA @ (800)280-8272 or Buttonwillow @ (805)764-5333. -Bill VARA E/P Spitfire #3 From beeline@iline.com Mon Mar 1 06:40:13 1999 From: "David C. Wingett" To: FRIEND OF TRIUMPH Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 20:24:09 -0800 Subject: clutch/flywheel This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0012_01BE6B33.F3E30C40 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Since the question of clutch & fly wheels has arisen, I'm wondering = if anyone has tried putting together a small button clutch (Tilton or = Quarter Master) with a flex plate,on a TR-6 ? I can only imagine the = rotating mass coming down to near nothing. ------=_NextPart_000_0012_01BE6B33.F3E30C40 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
    Since the = question of clutch=20 & fly wheels has arisen, I'm wondering if anyone has tried putting = together=20 a small button clutch (Tilton or Quarter Master)  with a flex = plate,on a=20 TR-6 ? I can only imagine the rotating mass coming down to near=20 nothing.
------=_NextPart_000_0012_01BE6B33.F3E30C40-- From beeline@iline.com Mon Mar 1 06:40:13 1999 From: Malaboge@aol.com To: fot@autox.team.net, vintage-race@autox.team.net Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 20:42:23 EST Subject: Need a pulley Fellow Pack Rats- I need a generator pulley that will slow down the speed of the generator. Somewhere in my mind a few synapses have cross-fired and I seem to recall that an early 948 spridget had a pulley that was almost the same size as the generator body, this would be ideal. Of course I may be a victim of implanted memories and that pulley may only exist in that memory. But, if anyone has a similar recollection, or better yet, the pulley...lemme know and we can swap paper for metal. Slow down the Generator...Speed up the Mind Nick in Nor cal From beeline@iline.com Mon Mar 1 06:40:13 1999 From: Jack W Drews To: vintage race list , Date: Thu, 11 Mar 1999 02:53:02 -0500 Subject: [Fwd: Re: Works TR 4] This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------31BE449A7E7F Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Okay, gang, here's a chance to help out a genuine Triumph enthusiast from Germany. He has found what must be the very last Triumph Rallye car. It has the right numbers and some of the aluminum panels. It was apparently wrecked in North America and then rescued and pieced back together. He needs a couple of the original size wheels. I know from previous postings that some of these wheels exist, so here's a chance to help a guy who is restoring one of the rare original cars that used them. Thanks in advance, and please respond directly to him if you have a wheel or two that you can part with. -- uncle jack 61 TR4 Rallye Replica Racer 71 TR6 Street Car named Desire --------------31BE449A7E7F Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Return-path: Received: from DIRECTORY-DAEMON by InfoAve.Net (PMDF V5.1-12 #23426) id <01J8ORVRAOI89JHRQN@InfoAve.Net> for vinttr4@InfoAve.Net; Thu, 11 Mar 1999 02:30:49 EST Received: from smtp01.infoave.net ("port 3415"@[165.166.0.26]) by InfoAve.Net (PMDF V5.1-12 #23426) with ESMTP id <01J8ORVEVUNW9JHKNZ@InfoAve.Net> for vinttr4@geneseo.net; Thu, 11 Mar 1999 02:30:38 -0500 (EST) Received: from mailout10.btx.dtag.de ("port 21605"@[194.25.2.158]) by SMTP00.InfoAve.Net (PMDF V5.1-12 #23426) with SMTP id <01J8ORTKVHO28ZE1Y0@SMTP00.InfoAve.Net> for vinttr4@geneseo.net; Thu, 11 Mar 1999 02:29:02 -0500 (EST) Received: from fwd03.btx.dtag.de (fwd03.btx.dtag.de [194.25.2.163]) by mailout10.btx.dtag.de with smtp id 10Kzr1-00083C-00; Thu, 11 Mar 1999 08:26:03 +0100 Received: from t-online.de (02162352967-0001(btxid)@[193.159.59.222]) by fwd03.btx.dtag.de with smtp id ; Thu, 11 Mar 1999 08:25:55 +0100 Date: Thu, 11 Mar 1993 08:25:41 +0100 From: carco@t-online.de (Carsten Conrads) Subject: Re: Works TR 4 X-Sender: 02162352967-0001@t-online.de To: vinttr4@geneseo.net Message-id: <2B9EE975.FB1A6905@t-online.de> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-DT (Win98; I) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Accept-Language: en References: <2B63EB9D.D0BB93A4@t-online.de> <36DBCB8E.D59@geneseo.net> <2B9526E7.5B42264@t-online.de> <36E2E746.36C6@geneseo.net> 11.03.1999 Hi Jack, thank you for your last email. The wheels were called American Racing eight spoke mag wheels. On the inside is standing the No. 61550. They were build from Magnesium and from Aluminium. The wheels were build from the year 1963 to 1969 in 5 inch wide and in 5,5 inch wide. The price was 1967 $63,20 per wheel for a mag. wheel and $54,00 per wheel for a Alu wheel. I need the 5 inch mag. wheels. In Germany comes Import cars from the U.S.A. with these wheels but the wheel are in bad condition. Here cost one wheel in agood condition approx $140,00. Unfortunately are these wheels in Germany very rare and most 5,5 inch wide. I am not member in the Triumph Register or club. I am only member in the Triumph IG-Suedwest in Germany a little club with 400 members. Perhaps you can get two of this wheels or a adress from a orwner of this wheels? The car is ready approx in winter 1999 or spring 2000. I work all himself. My red TR4A I haven also compl. restored in the year 1991. The car is very fast. 131 mph on the street. Very fun. http://home.t-online.de/home/carco/home.htm cordially Carsten --------------31BE449A7E7F-- From beeline@iline.com Mon Mar 1 06:40:13 1999 From: "Bill Sohl" To: jonmac , John Suchak Date: Thu, 11 Mar 1999 07:22:42 +0000 Subject: Re: Emergency Parts Kit John Suchak wrote > Emergency kit? Simple. Here's the contents of mine: > > Cell Phone > AAA Premier Membership > Paperback (to read while waiting for AAA) John forgot the all important: Major Credit Card :-) Cheers, Bill K2UNK From beeline@iline.com Mon Mar 1 06:40:13 1999 From: "mordy" To: "Alexander Joseph H" , Date: Thu, 11 Mar 1999 07:12:52 -0600 Subject: Re: TR4 TUB-Search TTTTOOOOOO BAD---------- amazing bad timing... I just GAVE one away!!! about four weeks ago. AND hardly any rust. No kidding. It was advertised in our club newlsletter ffor free .... some fellow came with trailer and drove off... mordy From beeline@iline.com Mon Mar 1 06:40:13 1999 From: "R. KASTNER" To: "David C. Wingett" , fot@autox.team.net Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 23:19:25 -0800 Subject: Re: clutch/flywheel --------------CF51D26F4C6E8AAE501477C4 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Having had just a big bunch of history with the TR-6 enigne and flywheels and clutchs flying off, making a installation with a light flywheel and the lightest smallest cluch makes a significant difference in the durability of the crankshaft and the available rpm. When making the flywheel (aluminum) have the center hub as deep as possible with about a .002" interference fit. This hub should then go onto the crank almost touching the seal. The problem is that the flywheel actually wobbles as the vibration of the crnakshaft is transfered to it and this movement is then trying to PRY the flywheel off the crank. When you lighten, reduce the size of the clutch you reduce this movment by about one half. I nmeasured all this on the dnyo with a oscilloscope and potentiometers For the fitting you then heat the flywheel and it will slide onto the crank end. I also drilled and taped the end of the crank for FOUR more bolts. Use bolts that are HARD not just strong. By hard I mean bolts that have a very limited stretch before breaking. Bolts that are stong and stretch allow the flywhell to slide around and wobble but the bolts don't break. Too bad, cause you are still a DNF.. Machine bolts such as used for hold downs in shop machinery such as a mill are hard and do not stretch. Kas Kastner David C. Wingett wrote: > Since the question of clutch & fly wheels has arisen, I'm > wondering if anyone has tried putting together a small button clutch > (Tilton or Quarter Master) with a flex plate,on a TR-6 ? I can only > imagine the rotating mass coming down to near nothing. --------------CF51D26F4C6E8AAE501477C4 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Having had just a big bunch of history with the TR-6 enigne and flywheels and clutchs flying off, making a installation with  a light flywheel and the lightest smallest cluch makes a significant difference in the durability of the crankshaft and the available rpm. When making the flywheel (aluminum) have the center hub as deep as possible with about a .002" interference fit. This hub should then go onto the crank almost touching the seal. The problem is that the flywheel actually wobbles as the vibration of the crnakshaft is transfered to it and this movement is then trying to PRY the flywheel off the crank. When you lighten, reduce the size of the clutch you reduce this movment by about one half.  I nmeasured all this on the dnyo with a oscilloscope and potentiometers  For the fitting you then heat the flywheel and it will slide onto the crank end. I also drilled and taped the end of the crank for FOUR more bolts. Use bolts that are HARD not just strong.  By hard I mean bolts that have a very limited stretch before breaking. Bolts that are stong and stretch allow the flywhell to slide around and wobble but the bolts don't break.  Too bad, cause you are still a DNF.. Machine bolts such as used for hold downs in  shop machinery such as a mill are hard and do not stretch.    Kas Kastner

David C. Wingett wrote:

     Since the question of clutch & fly wheels has arisen, I'm wondering if anyone has tried putting together a small button clutch (Tilton or Quarter Master)  with a flex plate,on a TR-6 ? I can only imagine the rotating mass coming down to near nothing.
  --------------CF51D26F4C6E8AAE501477C4-- From beeline@iline.com Mon Mar 1 06:40:13 1999 From: "John Lehman" To: "Chuck Ganyard" , "Kas Kastner" , Date: Thu, 11 Mar 1999 15:58:15 -0500 Subject: Fluid Dampeners This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_011A_01BE6BD7.F91CAFA0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable In trying to increase the reliablility of our GT6 engine, my partner = came up with the idea of adding a fluid balancer to the front end of the = crank to take some of the flex and vibration out of the crank. Has = anybody done this? With what results? We used a balancer from a = 5.0-liter Ford motor and it seems to make the whole motor run smoother, = but we haven't got all that much time on the motor to tell if = reliability is improved. This actually increases the rotating mass. = Would lightening the flywheel make any sense in combination with the = fluid dampener? Any opinions, well-reasoned and insightful or not, are welcome. John Lehman ------=_NextPart_000_011A_01BE6BD7.F91CAFA0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
In trying to increase the = reliablility of our=20 GT6 engine, my partner came up with the idea of adding a fluid balancer = to the=20 front end of the crank to take some of the flex and vibration out of the = crank.  Has anybody done this? With what results?  = We used a balancer from a 5.0-liter Ford motor = and it seems=20 to make the whole motor run smoother, but we haven't got all that much = time on=20 the motor to tell if reliability is improved.  This actually = increases the=20 rotating mass.  Would lightening the flywheel make any sense in = combination=20 with the fluid dampener?
 
Any opinions, well-reasoned and = insightful or=20 not, are welcome.
 
John = Lehman
------=_NextPart_000_011A_01BE6BD7.F91CAFA0-- From beeline@iline.com Mon Mar 1 06:40:13 1999 From: cak@dimebank.com (Chris Kantarjiev) To: JELehman@ix.netcom.com Date: Thu, 11 Mar 1999 13:36:13 -0800 Subject: Re: Fluid Dampeners I considered such a thing, but heard all sorts of horror stories about "if you use the wrong one, it's worse". I'd love to hear different - my GT6 lost its mechanical fan long ago, and installing one of these without pulling the motor might be easy and worthwhile. From beeline@iline.com Mon Mar 1 06:40:13 1999 From: "R. KASTNER" To: "David C. Wingett" , FOT@autox.team.net Date: Thu, 11 Mar 1999 06:33:39 -0800 Subject: Re: clutch/flywheel --------------EC5BAF46DC48E77DCE98FDB7 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The problem is twofold. It is weight and it is size which of course is surface speed. The larger the diameter the higher the surface speed. To make the best of the bad rules and posssiblity of keeping everything togeather I used an aluminum clutch from a Porsche and an aluminum flywheel. I made a steel hub to fit over the crank with an interference fit then bolted the flywheel to the hub. This combination gave a TOTAL weight of 13 pounds. Were I to do this again I would go to a multiple disc clutch. Then you would have the light weight AND the small diameter. To reduce the largest diameter weight I even removed the ring gear teeth in specific spots as I knew the engine always stopped in certain areas and I could probably get away with it. Lots of work to not much benifit. We then turned the engine to 7500 to with pretty good reliability. The rpm range of the torsional vibration in the crank can be moved around but is always there. The crank in the TR-6 has no overlap and thus is a whippy devil. I made the weights as light as possible and this gave a problem at about 4400 RPM again at 6100 RPM and then the last vibration was over 8000 and was not of importance. This third vibration by the way was so severe it was off the page on the pen recorder. The biggest problem we had was holding the engine revs at the proper amount on a yellow flag or the pace lap to not be in the range of the vibration. I figured out that light was good by the simple theory that if I tooled off the flywheel to nothing, then what could fall off. NOTHING. Therefore light is good. I would like to add that when we whipped the clutch flywheel problem then the torsionals went to the other end of the crank and broke the timing chain, we fixed that with a double row, then it actually sheared the camshaft bolts to where we had to add another bigger bolt to keep it all intact. Worth doing though, we WON. Made 252 bph at 7900 rpm in 1972.Boy this stuff is old isn't it. David C. Wingett wrote: > Kas > Thanks for your response. Yes, I have also had a fly wheel > come lose but, not disconnect ( last lap of the last race, fastest lap > of the season). Now, with the ATI balancer, and all the other > balancing work done, shouldn't that take care of any odd > vibration...? The Tilton and Quarter Master button clutches are very > state of the art & balanced to a Bone. The only problem I would see > is finding a source for the flex plate, using a stock ring gear (of > course it would have to be CUSTOM made, every thing else is) and > calibrating a throw out bearing to match the clutch. David W. > > -----Original Message----- > From: R. KASTNER > To: David C. Wingett ; > fot@autox.team.net > Date: Thursday, March 11, 1999 11:25 AM > Subject: Re: clutch/flywheelHaving had just a big bunch of > history with the TR-6 enigne and flywheels and clutchs > flying off, making a installation with a light flywheel and > the lightest smallest cluch makes a significant difference > in the durability of the crankshaft and the available rpm. > When making the flywheel (aluminum) have the center hub as > deep as possible with about a .002" interference fit. This > hub should then go onto the crank almost touching the seal. > The problem is that the flywheel actually wobbles as the > vibration of the crnakshaft is transfered to it and this > movement is then trying to PRY the flywheel off the crank. > When you lighten, reduce the size of the clutch you reduce > this movment by about one half. I nmeasured all this on the > dnyo with a oscilloscope and potentiometers For the fitting > you then heat the flywheel and it will slide onto the crank > end. I also drilled and taped the end of the crank for FOUR > more bolts. Use bolts that are HARD not just strong. By > hard I mean bolts that have a very limited stretch before > breaking. Bolts that are stong and stretch allow the > flywhell to slide around and wobble but the bolts don't > break. Too bad, cause you are still a DNF.. Machine bolts > such as used for hold downs in shop machinery such as a > mill are hard and do not stretch. Kas Kastner > > David C. Wingett wrote: > > > Since the question of clutch & fly wheels has arisen, > > I'm wondering if anyone has tried putting together a small > > button clutch (Tilton or Quarter Master) with a flex > > plate,on a TR-6 ? I can only imagine the rotating mass > > coming down to near nothing. > > > --------------EC5BAF46DC48E77DCE98FDB7 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The problem is twofold. It is weight and it is size which of course is surface speed. The larger the diameter the higher the surface speed. To make the best of the bad rules and posssiblity of keeping everything togeather I used an aluminum clutch from a Porsche and an aluminum flywheel. I made a steel hub to fit over the crank with an interference fit then bolted the flywheel to the hub. This combination gave a TOTAL weight of 13 pounds. Were I to do this again I would go to a multiple disc clutch. Then you would have the light weight AND the small diameter. To reduce the largest diameter weight I even removed the ring gear teeth in specific spots as I knew the engine always stopped in certain areas and I could probably get away with it.  Lots of work to not much benifit.  We then turned the engine to 7500 to with pretty good reliability. The  rpm range of the torsional vibration in the crank can be moved around but is always there. The crank in the TR-6 has no overlap and thus is a whippy devil. I made the weights as light as possible and this gave a problem at about 4400 RPM again at 6100 RPM and then the last vibration was over 8000 and was not of importance. This third vibration by the way was so severe it was off the page on the pen recorder. The biggest problem we had was holding the engine revs at the proper amount on a yellow flag or the pace lap to not be in the range of the  vibration. I figured out that light was good by the simple theory that if I tooled off the flywheel to nothing, then what could fall off. NOTHING.  Therefore light is good. I would like to add that when we whipped the clutch flywheel problem then the torsionals went to the other end of the crank and broke the timing chain, we fixed that with a double row, then it actually sheared the camshaft bolts to where we had to add another bigger bolt to keep it all intact.  Worth doing though, we WON. Made 252 bph at 7900 rpm in 1972.Boy this stuff is old isn't it.

David C. Wingett wrote:

 Kas 
        Thanks for your response. Yes, I have also had a fly wheel come lose but, not disconnect ( last lap of the last race, fastest lap of the season).  Now, with the ATI balancer, and all the other balancing  work done, shouldn't that take care of any odd vibration...?  The Tilton and Quarter Master button clutches are very state of the art & balanced to a Bone.  The only problem I would see is finding a source for the flex plate, using a stock ring gear (of course it would have to be CUSTOM made, every thing else is) and calibrating a throw out bearing to match the clutch. David W.
-----Original Message-----
From: R. KASTNER <kaskas@earthlink.net>
To: David C. Wingett <elkhorn@megsinet.net>; fot@autox.team.net <fot@autox.team.net>
Date: Thursday, March 11, 1999 11:25 AM
Subject: Re: clutch/flywheelHaving had just a big bunch of history with the TR-6 enigne and flywheels and clutchs flying off, making a installation with  a light flywheel and the lightest smallest cluch makes a significant difference in the durability of the crankshaft and the available rpm. When making the flywheel (aluminum) have the center hub as deep as possible with about a .002" interference fit. This hub should then go onto the crank almost touching the seal. The problem is that the flywheel actually wobbles as the vibration of the crnakshaft is transfered to it and this movement is then trying to PRY the flywheel off the crank. When you lighten, reduce the size of the clutch you reduce this movment by about one half.  I nmeasured all this on the dnyo with a oscilloscope and potentiometers  For the fitting you then heat the flywheel and it will slide onto the crank end. I also drilled and taped the end of the crank for FOUR more bolts. Use bolts that are HARD not just strong.  By hard I mean bolts that have a very limited stretch before breaking. Bolts that are stong and stretch allow the flywhell to slide around and wobble but the bolts don't break.  Too bad, cause you are still a DNF.. Machine bolts such as used for hold downs in  shop machinery such as a mill are hard and do not stretch.    Kas Kastner

David C. Wingett wrote:

     Since the question of clutch & fly wheels has arisen, I'm wondering if anyone has tried putting together a small button clutch (Tilton or Quarter Master)  with a flex plate,on a TR-6 ? I can only imagine the rotating mass coming down to near nothing.
 
  --------------EC5BAF46DC48E77DCE98FDB7-- From beeline@iline.com Mon Mar 1 06:40:13 1999 From: "R. KASTNER" To: John Lehman , FOT@autox.team.net Date: Thu, 11 Mar 1999 06:46:26 -0800 Subject: Re: Fluid Dampeners --------------050953009EAC0CD34BE6A933 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The 2 litre engine was the most reliable engine we ever had. It was so good and the crank very very strong as it had lots of overlap. (The TR-6 should be so lucky) The rods were the weak point of the GT-6 engine after they put on the TR-6 cylinder head. The damper is probably a good thought but torsionals in that engine were never a major worry. We turned to 8000 and made over 180 bhp at 7700 on the standard (ho ho ho ) Stromberg carbs. Making the rotating mass lighter is almost ALWAYS a good idea. John Lehman wrote: > In trying to increase the reliablility of our GT6 engine, my partner > came up with the idea of adding a fluid balancer to the front end of > the crank to take some of the flex and vibration out of the crank. > Has anybody done this? With what results? We used a balancer from a > 5.0-liter Ford motor and it seems to make the whole motor run > smoother, but we haven't got all that much time on the motor to tell > if reliability is improved. This actually increases the rotating > mass. Would lightening the flywheel make any sense in combination > with the fluid dampener? Any opinions, well-reasoned and insightful or > not, are welcome. John Lehman --------------050953009EAC0CD34BE6A933 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The 2 litre engine was the most reliable engine we ever had.  It was so good and the crank very very strong as it had lots of overlap. (The TR-6 should be so lucky) The rods were the weak point of the GT-6 engine after they put on the TR-6 cylinder head. The damper is probably a good thought but torsionals in that engine were never a major worry. We turned to 8000 and made over 180 bhp at 7700 on the standard (ho ho ho ) Stromberg carbs. Making the rotating mass lighter is almost ALWAYS a good idea.

John Lehman wrote:

 In trying to increase the reliablility of our GT6 engine, my partner came up with the idea of adding a fluid balancer to the front end of the crank to take some of the flex and vibration out of the crank.  Has anybody done this? With what results?  We used a balancer from a 5.0-liter Ford motor and it seems to make the whole motor run smoother, but we haven't got all that much time on the motor to tell if reliability is improved.  This actually increases the rotating mass.  Would lightening the flywheel make any sense in combination with the fluid dampener? Any opinions, well-reasoned and insightful or not, are welcome. John Lehman
  --------------050953009EAC0CD34BE6A933-- From beeline@iline.com Mon Mar 1 06:40:13 1999 From: Mark J Bradakis To: fot@autox.team.net Date: Fri, 12 Mar 1999 01:29:23 -0700 (MST) Subject: The Ghosts of knuckles past A dark and stormy night, wind, rain and snow. Hell of a time to be whacking on a little topless Triumph. But this storm will pass in due course, and the forecast for the St. Patrick's parade this saturday is pretty nice. Perhaps I should have brought Racket, the streetable Mark 1 Spit, down to the shop after stopping at the store for a quart of Kelly Green latex paint, and gotten it ready for the parade. But with the autocross season starting soon, I've been doing some work on the Killer Spit. The last few days I've been sneaking in a few hours at the shop tearing down Killer's motor to take a look. A quick side note, hopefully of some benefit to the readers. Some of you have known me for years, but no doubt there's a handful of folks reading this who have no idea who I am. One explaination of importance to this email list is that I am a systems administrator for the Department of Computer Science here at the University of Utah. Wearing that hat provides the skills and the resources to make this electronic forum possible. Whipping off that hat and slapping on the tattered, greasy flatcap identifies me as an avid Triumph enthusiast. I've only been into Triumphs since, uh, 1976 or so, when I came across a '69 GT6 for sale the day after I flagged for an SCCA regional at the old road course here in Salt Lake City. So yes, compared to some folks, I am still quite damp behind the ears. Actually, my exposure to Triumphs was at a much earlier age, and this is not the time to go into the episode that involves my sister, her boyfriend, a gaggle of neighborhood kids, a blue MGB GT and a few laps around one of the ovals at Indianapolis Raceway Park. Anyway, my major personal project, in conjunction with my brewing buddy Pugs, who's been spending WAY too much time on sixties Caddies lately, has been what is basically a frame up, uh, construction of what we would like to think is the ultimate Spitfire autocross car. Well, at least the ultimate in its class. In truth, it was the fastest Street Prepared Triumph of any description at the 1997 SCCA Nationals in Topeka. What that really means is that I snuck off one run that was faster than Chris Moore in her J.K. Jackson prepared TR6. Hmm, more possibilities for the FOT list. I call Killer a construction, not a restoration, since it was cobbled together out of various parts Pugs and I had laying around. A Mark 2 frame, a Mark 1 bonnet, an early Mark 3 tub with the indent for the dual master cylinder, 1500 swing spring rear suspension, ... Back to the point. Pugs and I have been running this Killer Spit for a while, time to pull out the motor and check on a few things. Since we needed to work on the clutch, as previous email mentioned, this was a good time to pull out the motor and take a look. Now, I am guessing that there are very few folks, if any, on this list who have hauled home some decrepit pile of rust and corrosion, thinly disguised as a sporting Triumph. I'd say there are very few of you in the FOT pews who, when the preacher talks of rusty fittings, broken bolts, swiss cheese body panels and such can jump up and give witness with a hearty "Amen!" So it was with dismantling Killer. There is such a profound and simple joy in applying a wrench to some bolt, breaking it free, and being able to spin it off with just the fingers, air tools gathering dust on the bench. No struggles with thirty oxidising years of nature, no time out to step outside and take a deep breath, hoping to prevent the hurling of a 3 pound sledge through the windscreen. I only wish that all my cars in the future were like this, skinned knuckles a distant memory. And once apart, more satisfaction. We recently went through a round of discussion on synthetic oils. We've been running Redline in Killer, so here's another vote in favor. Last fall we finished up our fourth, I think, full season on that motor. Looking at the bores, one can see that the hatch marks from the last rebore are starting to fade away in the area of the most thrust of the piston skirts. I should get a real bore gauge, the tools I have picked up no discernable wear in the cylinders. A bit of cruft around the top of the cylinders where the rings don't travel, but no problem. And the bearings look like they were put in last week, not a couple of years ago. I'll probably just replace the rod bearings and button it up, ready for another season of parking lot pylon madness. Hot damn! mjb. From beeline@iline.com Mon Mar 1 06:40:13 1999 From: Bob Lang To: fot@autox.team.net Date: Fri, 12 Mar 1999 13:08:23 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: Harmonic Dampeners and Cranks and TR6 Hi All... Great topic. I have a question though, and I suspect Mr. K can provide some insight. Early TR6's use a different crank than the later ones, I have no idea what the cutover engine number was, but I suspect it was CC50000... at any rate, folks refer to this crank as a "long snout" unit. The question is, is a long snout crank inherently any better or worse for one of the mega RPM applications? Or does it matter? I was told by a TR250 Autoxer named Jeff Janick that long snout cranks are better, and then subsequently realized that they are also made from "unobtainium" when I started to look for one. As luck would have it, at least one of these has become part of my "collection", and I figured it would be nice to know this info for the inevitable "phase two" motor that I'll probably be building in the next calendar year or so. Wow. 8000 RPMs with a TR6 motor. Koool! rml ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Bob Lang Room N42-140Q | This space for rent. Consultant MIT Computer Services | Voice: (617)253-7438 FAX: (617)258-9535 | ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From beeline@iline.com Mon Mar 1 06:40:13 1999 From: "Bob Kramer" To: Date: Fri, 12 Mar 1999 13:14:31 -0600 Subject: harmonic balancer for TR3-4 Dear FOT, I am planning on building a back-up engine for the TR3. This will be an "econo" racing engine. I'm planning on using stock 87 MM pistons, crank and rods. On the engine I put in my TR3, I had the crank modified for the rear seal kit, and used the BFE H/B and pulley. I'm wondering if everyone uses the rear seal kit or do most opt not not to. Also, I've heard that an MGB H/B can be modified to fit the front of the TR crank. Does anyone have details on this or any other choices? TIA Bob Kramer From beeline@iline.com Mon Mar 1 06:40:13 1999 From: Gt6steve@aol.com To: FOT@autox.team.net Date: Fri, 12 Mar 1999 21:55:19 EST Subject: GT6/TR6 motors Greetings all, Good news for me tonight. Carillo tells me they have found a blank for my replacement rod and I should see it in a few weeks instead of months. As you can imagine I've been thinking a lot about oiling of late. I'm using the late TR6 oil pump with the 3/4" pickup tube and screen. I'm a bit suspicious of cavitation at the high end from this screen being close to the square cut tube end. I'm stewing on grafting on a large diameter pancake style head as seen in American oil pans to give a vacuum cleaner head effect. Anybody have any thoughts or done anything like this? Does anybody know the GPM of these pumps? In addition I've got some really pretty 1.65 roller rockers sitting on my that I can't use because my springs scare me when I get full lift. I think the springs are Isky SP-116's as quoted for Spitfire's. When I use the rollers with my cam I get about .550 lift at the valve. What alternative springs are others using? Anybody willing to share their killer secret's? I know of a wild 1147 Spit using Porsche valve springs (#901-105-901-00) but I don't know if they'll fit the GT6. Can anybody comment on that? Finally, thanks for all the help and leads in finding the odd Carillo. Bye, Steve From beeline@iline.com Mon Mar 1 06:40:13 1999 From: "Laura G." To: "jonmac" , Date: Fri, 12 Mar 1999 19:33:36 -0800 Subject: Re: Emergency Parts Kit A cell phone. Laura G. and Nigel -----Original Message----- From: jonmac To: HMENTZEN@aol.com Cc: Spitfires List ; Friends of Triumph ; Triumphs List Date: Tuesday, March 09, 1999 8:12 AM Subject: Emergency Parts Kit > >I'm planning a 5 - 6 hour drive to Maine this May. I've had my Spit for a >little over 2 years now, but have never gone more than 100- 150 miles at >any one time. I've stayed off the Interstates because of concerns about >running >the car at higher rpm's and the interstates aren't any fun. What I'd like >to do is put together an emergency kit and was looking for advice from the >experienced listers.( Not to be pessimistic , my AAA is paid up .) >Actually the only breakdown I've experienced on the road was a broken >accelerator >cable. I enjoy reading about other people's cars and repairs but I >really like hearing about where people drive their cars. > >Hans and listers > >Make your Triumph boot (trunk) look authentic from now onwards - especially >if you're going to VTR this year and want to take a few bits with you - just >in case. I've copied (as accurately as I can) the label and contents of a >GENUINE factory CONTINENTAL TOURING KIT with box dimensions from one still >in my possession. Like me, the box is looking a bit faded, but UNlike me, >the contents still work - or ought to! I haven't tried them out for a while. >Feel free to print it off and apply the label to your box of bits. Comes >with my compliments. You'll find the label at >http://www.toolbox.ndirect.co.uk/touringkit > >John Mac > >Book 1: http://www.toolbox.ndirect.co.uk/triumphbook >Book 2: http://www.toolbox.ndirect.co.uk/crocus >Triumph Over Triumph magazine: http://www.cyberware.co.uk/~chips11 > > > From beeline@iline.com Mon Mar 1 06:40:13 1999 From: "Laura G." To: "John Suchak" , "jonmac" Date: Fri, 12 Mar 1999 19:36:21 -0800 Subject: Re: Emergency Parts Kit >Emergency kit? Simple. Here's the contents of mine: > >Cell Phone >AAA Premier Membership >Paperback (to read while waiting for AAA) > >John You forgot the fire extinguisher! Oh, and a flashlight to read the paperback by-if needed. Laura G. and Nigel From beeline@iline.com Mon Mar 1 06:40:13 1999 From: "Laura G." To: "Bill Manning" , Date: Fri, 12 Mar 1999 20:13:23 -0800 Subject: Re: VARA Race I'll be there on the 1st of May!!! Looking forward to it immensely! And my friend Dave is talking about bring out "Bad Boy"-a 512 BB!!! Can't wait to get nigel out to the track!! Laura G. and Nigel -----Original Message----- From: Bill Manning To: Triumph Mail List ; Spitfire Mail List ; Friends of Triumph Mail List Date: Wednesday, March 10, 1999 4:48 PM Subject: VARA Race > > Anyone who wants to cheer on the Triumphs should come out to the >Vintage Auto Racing Association race (http://vararacing.com/) at >Buttonwillow Raceway Park the weekend of March 27th & 28th for some good >old fashoned road racing. There will be all sorts of racing from Formula >Vees to A & B Production which has the big V-8 American Iron. E & F >Production classes are always filled with Triumphs, MG's and other >British cars. They promise an extra special event with lots of wonderful >cars. VARA usually offers track tours during the lunch hour where for >$20.00 you can take your car out on the track. Buttonwillow is located >off the Interstate 5 Freeway near Bakersfield CA at the Lerdo Highway >exit go west and take a left into the track. For information you can >call VARA @ (800)280-8272 or Buttonwillow @ (805)764-5333. > -Bill VARA E/P Spitfire #3 > > From beeline@iline.com Mon Mar 1 06:40:13 1999 From: "Robert M. Lang" To: fot@autox.team.net Date: Sat, 13 Mar 1999 07:50:12 -0500 Subject: 'Nuther Nomination Amici, I would like to nominate another member to the fold. As he is a member of New England Triumphs, his name is, of course, Bob. In this case of the lineage Totten. Folks that have been to some VTR events (Albany '96, for example) and those folks that frequent New England Region SCCA Solo II events will no doubt recognize Bob and his '64 LeMans Spitfire Replica done tastefully in British Racing Green and yellow. Rumor has it that Bob is thinking Vintage, I'll let him chime in here when he gets a chance. Salutations. rml Bob Lang TR6's From beeline@iline.com Mon Mar 1 06:40:13 1999 From: "R. KASTNER" To: Bob Lang Date: Sat, 13 Mar 1999 03:20:14 -0800 Subject: Re: Harmonic Dampeners and Cranks and TR6 As I remember ther was no difference in materials between the early and late cranks but, the later parts are cross drilled on the rod throws and thus a much better part.. Nitride hardening the crank will give about a 50% increase in strength. There is a little system to follow in doing this and if you actually intend to do this contact me and I'll fill you in on how I did (for years). If you are not going to spin the motor don't bother with the effort. Kas Kastner Bob Lang wrote: > Hi All... > > Great topic. > > I have a question though, and I suspect Mr. K can provide some insight. > > Early TR6's use a different crank than the later ones, I have no idea > what the cutover engine number was, but I suspect it was CC50000... at > any rate, folks refer to this crank as a "long snout" unit. > > The question is, is a long snout crank inherently any better or worse for > one of the mega RPM applications? Or does it matter? > > I was told by a TR250 Autoxer named Jeff Janick that long snout cranks > are better, and then subsequently realized that they are also made from > "unobtainium" when I started to look for one. As luck would have it, at > least one of these has become part of my "collection", and I figured it > would be nice to know this info for the inevitable "phase two" motor that > I'll probably be building in the next calendar year or so. > > Wow. 8000 RPMs with a TR6 motor. Koool! > > rml > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Bob Lang Room N42-140Q | This space for rent. > Consultant MIT Computer Services | > Voice: (617)253-7438 FAX: (617)258-9535 | > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From beeline@iline.com Mon Mar 1 06:40:13 1999 From: "R. KASTNER" To: Bob Lang , fot@autox.team.net Date: Sat, 13 Mar 1999 23:07:19 -0800 Subject: Re: Harmonic Dampeners and Cranks and TR6 Just another word about the crankshaft dampers on the Tiumph 6 cylinder engines. This applies in particular to the TR-6 engines Due to the torsional vibration the front damper sometimes will have the outer ring (which has the TDC timing mark on it) move as much as several degrees. This gives a retarded position for the timing mark and you will have a power loss and the engine really feel lazy and slow to rev. It is worth checking or better yet do as I did and mark the inner part to the outer part with a sharp line so that you can check each time you go over the engine tune. I finally drilled a 1/8" hole in the bottom of the belt groove right through both parts of the damper. Before & after each practice session or race I would check the damper by sliding a 1/8" drill into the drilled hole to make certain that the parts were still in alignment. R. KASTNER wrote: > As I remember ther was no difference in materials between the early and late cranks > but, the later parts are cross drilled on the rod throws and thus a much better > part.. Nitride hardening the crank will give about a 50% increase in strength. > There is a little system to follow in doing this and if you actually intend to do > this contact me and I'll fill you in on how I did (for years). If you are not going > to spin the motor don't bother with the effort. > Kas Kastner > Bob Lang wrote: > > > Hi All... > > > > Great topic. > > > > I have a question though, and I suspect Mr. K can provide some insight. > > > > Early TR6's use a different crank than the later ones, I have no idea > > what the cutover engine number was, but I suspect it was CC50000... at > > any rate, folks refer to this crank as a "long snout" unit. > > > > The question is, is a long snout crank inherently any better or worse for > > one of the mega RPM applications? Or does it matter? > > > > I was told by a TR250 Autoxer named Jeff Janick that long snout cranks > > are better, and then subsequently realized that they are also made from > > "unobtainium" when I started to look for one. As luck would have it, at > > least one of these has become part of my "collection", and I figured it > > would be nice to know this info for the inevitable "phase two" motor that > > I'll probably be building in the next calendar year or so. > > > > Wow. 8000 RPMs with a TR6 motor. Koool! > > > > rml > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Bob Lang Room N42-140Q | This space for rent. > > Consultant MIT Computer Services | > > Voice: (617)253-7438 FAX: (617)258-9535 | > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From beeline@iline.com Mon Mar 1 06:40:13 1999 From: "Greg Solow" To: "R. KASTNER" , "Bob Lang" , Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 11:32:00 -0800 Subject: Re: Harmonic Dampeners and Cranks and TR6 To avoid the possibility of Ign. timing errors because of damper movement and to achieve greater accuracy by virtue of the larger diameter and hence greater distance between the degree marks, we have been degreeing the outer diameter of the flywheel, machining a hole and putting a pointer on the bell housing,and setting the timing there. Regards, Greg Solow -----Original Message----- From: R. KASTNER To: Bob Lang ; fot@autox.team.net Date: Sunday, March 14, 1999 11:13 AM Subject: Re: Harmonic Dampeners and Cranks and TR6 >Just another word about the crankshaft dampers on the Tiumph 6 cylinder engines. This >applies in particular to the TR-6 engines Due to the torsional vibration the front >damper sometimes will have the outer ring (which has the TDC timing mark on it) move >as much as several degrees. This gives a retarded position for the timing mark and >you will have a power loss and the engine really feel lazy and slow to rev. It is >worth checking or better yet do as I did and mark the inner part to the outer part with >a sharp line so that you can check each time you go over the engine tune. I finally >drilled a 1/8" hole in the bottom of the belt groove right through both parts of the >damper. Before & after each practice session or race I would check the damper by >sliding a 1/8" drill into the drilled hole to make certain that the parts were still in >alignment. > >R. KASTNER wrote: > >> As I remember ther was no difference in materials between the early and late cranks >> but, the later parts are cross drilled on the rod throws and thus a much better >> part.. Nitride hardening the crank will give about a 50% increase in strength. >> There is a little system to follow in doing this and if you actually intend to do >> this contact me and I'll fill you in on how I did (for years). If you are not going >> to spin the motor don't bother with the effort. >> Kas Kastner >> Bob Lang wrote: >> >> > Hi All... >> > >> > Great topic. >> > >> > I have a question though, and I suspect Mr. K can provide some insight. >> > >> > Early TR6's use a different crank than the later ones, I have no idea >> > what the cutover engine number was, but I suspect it was CC50000... at >> > any rate, folks refer to this crank as a "long snout" unit. >> > >> > The question is, is a long snout crank inherently any better or worse for >> > one of the mega RPM applications? Or does it matter? >> > >> > I was told by a TR250 Autoxer named Jeff Janick that long snout cranks >> > are better, and then subsequently realized that they are also made from >> > "unobtainium" when I started to look for one. As luck would have it, at >> > least one of these has become part of my "collection", and I figured it >> > would be nice to know this info for the inevitable "phase two" motor that >> > I'll probably be building in the next calendar year or so. >> > >> > Wow. 8000 RPMs with a TR6 motor. Koool! >> > >> > rml >> > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- >> > Bob Lang Room N42-140Q | This space for rent. >> > Consultant MIT Computer Services | >> > Voice: (617)253-7438 FAX: (617)258-9535 | >> > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- > > > > From beeline@iline.com Mon Mar 1 06:40:13 1999 From: TRBILBO@aol.com To: fot@autox.team.net Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 21:51:02 EST Subject: Another E Ticket nomination Fellow Fot's....... I'd like to nominate another fine Racer for FOT membership. Welcome to our fun net Vince De Palma who races a yellow MKI Spitfire which has been a race car since new....formerly from the Northwest and now usually rounding out the top five in F Production at west coast VARA venues. Vince is a member of our E Ticket Triumphs Race Team (and the Spifire Squadron) and is always a gentleman competitor and full of the Triumph spirit. He also knows how knows good wine and how to enjoy the pit party,,,what other qualifications could there be?...smile. You can reach Vince at greenery@gte.net . Please invite him to join the fun. We need more real 1147 racers!!. Bill Burroughs, VTR So West Rep, E Ticket Triumphs, Founder SCTOA 70 TR6, 69 TR250, 73 MkIV, 69 GT6+, 59 TR3A and two 65 TR4A Vintage Race Cars. Happy Motoring!! From beeline@iline.com Mon Mar 1 06:40:13 1999 From: Bob Lang To: triumphs@autox.team.net Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 11:14:11 -0500 (EST) Subject: Portland Update Hi all. Apologies in advance for the cross-posting... If you are _thinking_ about coming to VTR '99 this July 28 through August 1 in Portland, ME, the following may be of interest to you: Note: this was "gleaned" from a message from one of the VTR committee folk. ================== 8< Start Blatant Plagurism >8===================== I really wanted to get a message to you about the Holiday Inn being full. We seem to be having a problem with the Holiday Inn saying they are full when there are still some rooms available! Just last week our coordinator called our contact at the hotel because of these rumors flying around and learned that there are 20-25 rooms left. When people call to make reservations, they must say they are with the VTR Convention or the hotel will say they are full since we have all the rooms blocked off for the convention. If people are still being told that it is full, I would suggest that they call our contact at the hotel: Sally Page, 207-775-2311, ext. 2117. She seems to be the one who really knows how many rooms are available. ================== 8< End Blatant Plagurism >8===================== Thanks so much to the Streeters for providing this material. ;-) Now, what does this mean?? Two things - while the host hotel is not actually full as of this writing, it's pretty clear that it will be soon. That's not so bad, but you also need to factor in the fact that Portland, ME is the central housing place for "Camp Weekend", which is not just one weekend, but actually around three weekends centroided around the last weekend in July, in which all the parents from around the world drop in to see thier "kids" at their summer camps. In other words: NO VACANCY. So, as a member of the VTR '99 convention committee - I urge you to seriously consider your housing arrangements "real soon now" and give the Holiday Inn by the Bay a call and reserve your room. In fairness to others, if you have reserved a room and then need to cancel as we get closer to the event, please post to the triumphs list telling of your actions so that others can take advantage. For more info, see: http://www.vtr.org/conventions/vtr-99.html Thanks. rml p.s. and don't forget to send in your registration stuff prior to May 15th to take advantage of the "early bird" registration fees. p.p.s. to you newsletters folks out there, please get the word out. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Bob Lang Editor, New England Triumphs | This space for rent. TR6 Guy | Voice: (617)253-7438 FAX: (617)258-9535 | ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From beeline@iline.com Mon Mar 1 06:40:13 1999 From: MWO.Jeans.Fashion@t-online.de (MWO Jeans & Fashion) To: fot@autox.team.net Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 13:43:59 +0100 Subject: Introduction Hello Friends of Triumph! Andrew Mace was so kind to invite me to join the list. So I just want to introduce myself. I am 35 years old and from Osnabrueck/Germany (am I the only Kraut on the list?). I was infected with the Triumph bacillus when I got my driving licence 17 years ago and started driving with a 1500 Spitfire. Since then I have always driven some kind of Triumph, mostly Spitfires. My present cars are a MK I Spitfire which I am racing since 1995 in the German based 'Triumph Competition' historic racing series, a well tuned street legal TR 3 and one of the works rally Spitfires better known as ADU 7B. My main interest is about the works racing Spitfires. So if anybody nows something about them or likes to chat about it please feel free to contact me. It is great to see (and great to join) that there is such an active group about Triumphs. In our racing series here we have about 30 active racing drivers, half of them TR men the other half Spitfire men. We enjoy competing on tracks like Nuerburgring, Spa, Zolder, Zandvoort or Monza. I am looking forward to having a good time with you all. Cheers Michael Michael Moenstermann Thymianweg 20 49086 Osnabrueck Germany From beeline@iline.com Mon Mar 1 06:40:13 1999 From: "Bob Kramer" To: Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 09:37:22 -0600 Subject: Need TR6 harmonic balancer A friend is rebuilding his TR6 engine and cannot locate a new harmonic balancer. His old one got loose and tore up the snout on the crank. He can get new crank from TRF, but apparantly they don't have the dampner. Anyone have a NOS unit or a VG used H/B for an early TR6? Bob Kramer rgk@flash.net From beeline@iline.com Mon Mar 1 06:40:13 1999 From: Randall Young To: "'Bob Kramer'" , Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 10:02:41 -0800 Subject: RE: Need TR6 harmonic balancer Bob : Ken Gillanders at BFE told me he has repaired these with Loctite QuickMetal with good results. I don't believe Ken is on the net, but you can call him at 626-443-0939. He's in the Pacific time zone. Randall On Wednesday, March 17, 1999 7:37 AM, Bob Kramer [SMTP:rgk@flash.net] wrote: > > A friend is rebuilding his TR6 engine and cannot locate a new harmonic > balancer. His old one got loose and tore up the snout on the crank. He can > get new crank from TRF, but apparantly they don't have the dampner. Anyone > have a NOS unit or a VG used H/B for an early TR6? > > Bob Kramer > rgk@flash.net From beeline@iline.com Mon Mar 1 06:40:13 1999 From: Mark J Bradakis To: fot@autox.team.net Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 13:49:51 -0700 (MST) Subject: Re: Another E Ticket nomination Okay, I added Vince. Below is included the current FOT list. The other day after replacing a burst heater hose on the big van, and driving it up and down in front of the shop for a while, I got to thinking. With the local autocross schedule I will most likely be flying to VTR in Portland. Of course, I do plan to drive to the meet in Portland though, maybe even have a track-worthy Spit by then. So the trip to Topeka, in September, would be my major driving trip. If I got the van to where it actually could once again cruise down the highway at a decent speed when fully loaded, maybe I should pile it full of parts and plan on making a sales trip to someplace in the Midwest. Visit some family in Indiana, stuff like that. Think there might be any events of interest to a guy like me around, oh, sometime in June? I might even be willing to continue East past Indiana for one more state. Any big race weekends coming up then, where some list member might need someone to help swap tires or keep an eye on the bbq? mjb. ---- Joe Alexander Sean Alexander Mark Alexander Nick B Bill Babcock Jery Barr Scott Barr Roger Beasley Steve Benford Bob Gary Blihovde Chip Bond Bob Bownes klm@emi.com Vern Brannon Don Brick Bill Burroughs Dan Buxner Ed Ceilley Mike Cook Baxter Culver Vince De Palma Bill Dentinger Jack Drews Tony Drews Mordy Dunst Dan Duryea Mike Engard John Fridirici Henry Frye John Frymark Pete Fullam Ken Gillanders Leon Guyot Chuck Gee John Harkness Susan Hensley Jim_Hill@chsra.wisc.edu Hone_Richard_A@code80.npt.nuwc.navy.mil John Houlton John Hornbostel Neal Howard Kent Howard Mike Jackson Jeff Jankiewicz Chris Kantarjiev Doug Karon Kas Kastner Arthur Kelly Irv Korey Bob Kramer Bob Lang John Lehman John Lye Andy Mace Bill Manning Don Marshall Pat McMullen Jeff Mennen Michael Moenstermann Russ Moore Rick Morris Henry Morrison Clark Nicholls Kevin O'Driscoll Bob Paul Cary Perket Gregory Petrolati Hardy Prentice Pugs Pivirotto Paul-Richardson@cyberware.co.uk Pat Ryan Ted Schumacher Steve Smith Paul Smock Jeff Snook Bill Sohl Greg Solow Donn Sopp Dave Spiwak Tom Strange Tim Suddard Alan Taylor Richard Taylor Bob Totten Justin Wagner TeriAnne Wakeman Bill Warner Bob Watkin Dale Will Dave Wingett Bob Wismer Jack Wheeler George Wright tr4racer@ESINET.NET jonmac@ndirect.co.uk matthews-home@worldnet.att.net From beeline@iline.com Mon Mar 1 06:40:13 1999 From: "Bob Kramer" To: "Triumphs List" , "FOT LIST" Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 15:18:42 -0600 Subject: TR6 Dampner blues Many thanks to the group for responding. I've passed on about 6 leads already in the search for an early TR6 dampner an HCTC buddy. Just in case, keep the leads coming. Bob Kramer Hill Country Triumph Club rgk@flash.net From beeline@iline.com Mon Mar 1 06:40:13 1999 From: "Gregory Petrolati" To: mjb@cs.utah.edu, fot@autox.team.net Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 14:38:03 PST Subject: Re: Another E Ticket nomination >The other day after replacing a burst heater hose on the big van, and >driving it up and down in front of the shop for a while, I got to thinking. >With the local autocross schedule I will most likely be flying to VTR in >Portland. Of course, I do plan to drive to the meet in Portland though, >maybe even have a track-worthy Spit by then. So the trip to Topeka, in >September, would be my major driving trip. If I got the van to where it >actually could once again cruise down the highway at a decent speed when >fully loaded, maybe I should pile it full of parts and plan on making a >sales trip to someplace in the Midwest. Visit some family in Indiana, stuff >like that. Think there might be any events of interest to a guy like me >around, oh, sometime in June? I might even be willing to continue East past >Indiana for one more state. Any big race weekends coming up then, where some >list member might need someone to help swap tires or keep an eye on the bbq? > >mjb. I don't know what you Itinerary looks like but if you start out around Memorial Day Weekend ya may want to swing by Champaign on yer way to Indy... We hav this little Festival here and, um well you're just the sort we'd like to invite... pop me yer snail address and I'll get a brochure in the post to you asap. BTW, what size cutlass do ya swing? Greg Petrolati Greg Petrolati Champaign, Illinois 1962 TR4 (CT4852L) That's not a leak... My car's just marking its territory... Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From beeline@iline.com Mon Mar 1 06:40:13 1999 From: "John Lehman" To: "Bob Kramer" , Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 20:33:16 -0500 Subject: Re: Need TR6 harmonic balancer You might want to try http://www.teamtriumph.com/ Scott harper has been a big help to me over the years and prices are generally reasonable. John Lehman >A friend is rebuilding his TR6 engine and cannot locate a new harmonic >balancer. His old one got loose and tore up the snout on the crank. He can >get new crank from TRF, but apparantly they don't have the dampner. Anyone >have a NOS unit or a VG used H/B for an early TR6? > >Bob Kramer >rgk@flash.net > From beeline@iline.com Mon Mar 1 06:40:13 1999 From: "John Lehman" To: "Mark J Bradakis" , Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 20:41:55 -0500 Subject: Re: Another E Ticket nomination Mark, Of course you know about SVRA's MG-Triumph Challenge at Mid-Ohio June 25-27, no? That should be well worth the additional 3-4 hours easterly drive from Indianapolis. I'm sure Jack W or Peter K would be glad to direct more info your way! John Lehman > If I got the van to where it >actually could once again cruise down the highway at a decent speed when >fully loaded, maybe I should pile it full of parts and plan on making a >sales trip to someplace in the Midwest. Visit some family in Indiana, stuff >like that. Think there might be any events of interest to a guy like me >around, oh, sometime in June? I might even be willing to continue East past >Indiana for one more state. Any big race weekends coming up then, where some >list member might need someone to help swap tires or keep an eye on the bbq? > >mjb. From beeline@iline.com Mon Mar 1 06:40:13 1999 From: "John Lehman" To: "Team Triumph" , "FOT" Date: Thu, 18 Mar 1999 11:16:13 -0500 Subject: Team Triumph This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_00B0_01BE7130.BC00F1E0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable FOT, I'd like to nominate Scott Harper teamtri@aol.com for FOT list = membership. Scott is the owner of Team Triumph (www.teamtriumph.com) = and has been a big help to me over the years. He's got a big, old = warehouse in Warren, OH, with the best organized stock of Triumph and = British car junk (list members would undoubtedly consider it treasure) = I've seen in this part of the world. He bleeds brg, I think. John Lehman ------=_NextPart_000_00B0_01BE7130.BC00F1E0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
FOT,
I'd like to nominate Scott Harper teamtri@aol.com for FOT list = membership. =20 Scott is the owner of Team Triumph (www.teamtriumph.com) and has = been a big=20 help to me over the years.  He's got a big, old warehouse in = Warren, OH,=20 with the best organized stock of Triumph and British car junk (list = members=20 would undoubtedly consider it treasure) I've seen in this part of the=20 world.  He bleeds brg, I think.
John = Lehman
------=_NextPart_000_00B0_01BE7130.BC00F1E0-- From beeline@iline.com Mon Mar 1 06:40:13 1999 From: Mark J Bradakis To: JELehman@ix.netcom.com Date: Fri, 19 Mar 1999 15:00:43 -0700 (MST) Subject: Re: Team Triumph Okay, I;ve added him. On a side note, I'd appreciate it if you would not use HTML format for FOT mail. mjb. From beeline@iline.com Mon Mar 1 06:40:13 1999 From: Mark J Bradakis To: greenman62@hotmail.com Date: Fri, 19 Mar 1999 15:03:14 -0700 (MST) Subject: Re: Another E Ticket nomination BTW, what size cutlass do ya swing? Cutlass? Never drove one, but I did run an errand in an aunt's Buick once. Hey, that's it - if my co-driver Pugs is going to have his Cadillac on the road someday soon, maybe I should start looking for an old "deuce and a quarter" mjb. From beeline@iline.com Mon Mar 1 06:40:13 1999 From: Mark J Bradakis To: BillDentin@AOL.COM Date: Fri, 19 Mar 1999 15:04:57 -0700 (MST) Subject: Re: Another E Ticket nomination Mark: How will you ever get your tongue out of your cheek? Maybe a 1 ton come-along would do the trick, we shall see. As folks might have guessed, my recent query about any events of interest in the midwest was a thinly veiled reference to the TR- MG challange coming up in June. I'll have to see what I can do about making it there. mjb. From beeline@iline.com Mon Mar 1 06:40:13 1999 From: "jonmac" To: "Friends of Triumph" , Date: Fri, 19 Mar 1999 18:48:57 -0000 Subject: Sadly, for UK listers only In posting this note, I wish it could be more far reaching than it is - but time can do wondrous things and fell frontiers as well. Who knows what might happen in the Millenium? Starting September 1 this year, BMIHT is offering to UK clubs and organisations (not classic car oriented but ANY club) within a 50 mile radius of Gaydon, the opportunity of a "Visit to Gaydon" through the medium of two slide presentations with yours truly as the presenter. The concept is that we will bring to your Club, Hotel, Church Room, Home or whatever - two presentations on the HMC vehicle collection. Planned kick-off time is 7.30pm to finish at 10.00pm. This service is ENTIRELY FREE to any organisation wanting to take advantage of it. I just hope it is sufficiently interesting and stimulating that it will make most of the audience want to shell out their own money at a later stage and come to Gaydon to see for themselves what we've got. If anyone out there is interested, mail me off list to get your name and venue booked in advance of everyone else. This looks like its going to be a popular winter activity. John Mac Book 1: http://www.toolbox.ndirect.co.uk/triumphbook Book 2: http://www.toolbox.ndirect.co.uk/crocus Triumph Over Triumph magazine: http://www.cyberware.co.uk/~chips11 From beeline@iline.com Mon Mar 1 06:40:13 1999 From: BillDentin@aol.com To: "'fot@autox.team.net'" Date: Sat, 20 Mar 1999 13:26:43 EST Subject: MAG WHEELS Amici: Bob Wismer and I are searching for racing wheels for the TALISMAN. We found some very nice wheels, but they do not fit (too wide). Perhaps others on the FOT list might be interested in these wheels. I know any discussion about wheels and offsets, and back spacing can be confusing, so I will try to be descriptive. These are mag wheels, which I would describe as 13"x5 1/2". They're overall diameter is 14", and their overall width is 6 1/8". They have a double bolt pattern that appears to accommodate both the Triumph and the Lotus bolt pattern. As near as I can measure, the back space dimension (from the inside edge of the wheel to the inside bolt up face) is 2 5/16". I suspect this may be a 2 1/4" Nominal Back Space. I suspect this results in a .75 or .8125 Negative Offset. I believe these wheels will fit both Lotus and Triumph models. While I have not had these wheels crack tested, they appear to be in excellent condition. They have been glass beaded, and they are freshly painted. They look gorgeous, albeit a bit extra ordinary. Whoever prepped them, clear coated them over bare metal, which achieved an interesting Gray Marbleized look. Really different, and kind of neat. I think the guy who has them wants $550 for them. I suspect these wheels might be quite rare, and appear to be well worth the asking price. Any interest? Bill Dentinger PS I suspect proper wheels to fit our TALISMAN are going to be 4 1/2" or 5" From beeline@iline.com Mon Mar 1 06:40:13 1999 From: Malaboge@aol.com To: fot@autox.team.net, vintage-race@autox.team.net Date: Sat, 20 Mar 1999 16:18:48 EST Subject: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly Brothers in Grease- Can there be such a thing as negative progress ? I just know you're all dying to hear of my findings and advancements with the Duke of Oil, my recently acquired TR4A. Well, I've about stripped it bare and most everything I've found says that the car is a "keeper", everything is there and mostly in good shape (Good). However, there have been a few problems encountered. The trans is cracked about 180 degrees around between the bell housing and trans case (Bad). Found another trans case locally and will be switching the gears over, hopefully they are OK. That rear end that I thought was welded...it wasn't it has a Detroit Locker in it (Good) and a 4.55 ring and pinion (Good). Unfortunately, the pinion gear is cracked in half (Ugly). I pulled the rear end and took it to Hardy Prentice, my local rear end guru...no wait, better make that my local differential guru. With his know how, a new set of bearings and another ring and pinion, he should be able to make it "ratchet" again... If I wasn't most ill this weekend, I would be puttin a new roll bar in, then its off to the paint shop, and then I have to try to remember how it all goes back together. Still shootin for a June completion date... Who's an optimist.... Nick in Nor Cal From beeline@iline.com Mon Mar 1 06:40:13 1999 From: "R. KASTNER" To: Malaboge@AOL.COM Date: Sat, 20 Mar 1999 07:44:56 -0800 Subject: Re: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly About the gearbox casing. The early cases did NOT have heavy ribs along the left side. The later parts DID have very heavy ( wide ) ribs running along the side. If you can find the later heavy ribbed type you have a winner. We had incredible trouble with the early types breaking. We finished a couple races with about an 1" gap between the bellhousing and the gearbox case itself and oil leaking from everwhere.. To help this until the new parts arrived the factory installed a thing we called the "Gong" under the rear portion of the early types to help with the vibration problems. If you have one with the "Gong" don't just throw it away put that darn thing on it does help.) This "gong" is a weight about 3" in diamter and fitted under the gearbox. Probably everyone knows this, but it just came to mind. Kas Kastner Malaboge@aol.com wrote: > Brothers in Grease- > > Can there be such a thing as negative progress ? > > I just know you're all dying to hear of my findings and advancements with the > Duke of Oil, my recently acquired TR4A. > Well, I've about stripped it bare and most everything I've found says that the > car is a "keeper", everything is there and mostly in good shape (Good). > However, there have been a few problems encountered. The trans is cracked > about 180 degrees around between the bell housing and trans case (Bad). Found > another trans case locally and will be switching the gears over, hopefully > they are OK. That rear end that I thought was welded...it wasn't it has a > Detroit Locker in it (Good) and a 4.55 ring and pinion (Good). Unfortunately, > the pinion gear is cracked in half (Ugly). I pulled the rear end and took it > to Hardy Prentice, my local rear end guru...no wait, better make that my local > differential guru. With his know how, a new set of bearings and another ring > and pinion, he should be able to make it "ratchet" again... > If I wasn't most ill this weekend, I would be puttin a new roll bar in, then > its off to the paint shop, and then I have to try to remember how it all goes > back together. > > Still shootin for a June completion date... > > Who's an optimist.... > Nick in Nor Cal From beeline@iline.com Mon Mar 1 06:40:13 1999 From: JHarkness@aol.com To: fot@autox.team.net Date: Sun, 21 Mar 1999 14:11:47 EST Subject: TR6 Greetings, Amici. With a certain amount of trepidation, I am starting to think of selling my 74 TR6(street car) to make way for other projects. I interested, please contact me directly for the particulars. Thanks, John Harkness, Bellville, OH From beeline@iline.com Mon Mar 1 06:40:13 1999 From: Malaboge@aol.com To: kaskas@earthlink.net, fot@autox.team.net Date: Sun, 21 Mar 1999 16:14:55 EST Subject: Re: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly In a message dated 3/20/99 8:56:47 PM Pacific Standard Time, kaskas@earthlink.net writes: << About the gearbox casing. The early cases did NOT have heavy ribs along the left side. The later parts DID have very heavy ( wide ) ribs running along the side. If you can find the later heavy ribbed type you have a winner. We had incredible trouble with the early types breaking. We finished a couple races with about an 1" gap between the bellhousing and the gearbox case itself and oil leaking from everwhere.. To help this until the new parts arrived the factory installed a thing we called the "Gong" under the rear portion of the early types to help with the vibration problems. If you have one with the "Gong" don't just throw it away put that darn thing on it does help.) This "gong" is a weight about 3" in diamter and fitted under the gearbox. Probably everyone knows this, but it just came to mind. Kas Kastner >> Kas- Figured that darn thing had to be there for some reason...not just to slow the car down... I too have had more than a few "leaking" transmissions due to that problem and ended up welding my own stiffening ribs to the case. That seemed to work well (hint...if anyone does this, weld the parts on with the trans bolted solidly to an engine to decrease any warpage from the welding). In this case, it is a late updated trans, but I think the cracking was due to an impact. Let the masochism continue... Nick in Nor Cal From beeline@iline.com Mon Mar 1 06:40:13 1999 From: "Bob Kramer" To: "R. KASTNER" , Date: Sun, 21 Mar 1999 16:40:39 -0600 Subject: Re: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly That's what that thing is! We have a TR4 in the local club with just such a device and I never could explain it's presence. Bob Kramer Hill Country Triumph Club rgk@flash.net ---------- > From: R. KASTNER > To: Malaboge@AOL.COM > Cc: fot@autox.team.net; vintage-race@autox.team.net > Subject: Re: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly > Date: Saturday, March 20, 1999 9:44 AM > > About the gearbox casing. The early cases did NOT have heavy ribs along the left > side. The later parts DID have very heavy ( wide ) ribs running along the side. If > you can find the later heavy ribbed type you have a winner. We had incredible > trouble with the early types breaking. We finished a couple races with about an 1" > gap between the bellhousing and the gearbox case itself and oil leaking from > everwhere.. To help this until the new parts arrived the factory installed a thing > we called the "Gong" under the rear portion of the early types to help with the > vibration problems. If you have one with the "Gong" don't just throw it away put > that darn thing on it does help.) This "gong" is a weight about 3" in diamter > and fitted under the gearbox. Probably everyone knows this, but it just came to > mind. Kas Kastner > > Malaboge@aol.com wrote: > > > Brothers in Grease- > > > > Can there be such a thing as negative progress ? > > > > I just know you're all dying to hear of my findings and advancements with the > > Duke of Oil, my recently acquired TR4A. > > Well, I've about stripped it bare and most everything I've found says that the > > car is a "keeper", everything is there and mostly in good shape (Good). > > However, there have been a few problems encountered. The trans is cracked > > about 180 degrees around between the bell housing and trans case (Bad). Found > > another trans case locally and will be switching the gears over, hopefully > > they are OK. That rear end that I thought was welded...it wasn't it has a > > Detroit Locker in it (Good) and a 4.55 ring and pinion (Good). Unfortunately, > > the pinion gear is cracked in half (Ugly). I pulled the rear end and took it > > to Hardy Prentice, my local rear end guru...no wait, better make that my local > > differential guru. With his know how, a new set of bearings and another ring > > and pinion, he should be able to make it "ratchet" again... > > If I wasn't most ill this weekend, I would be puttin a new roll bar in, then > > its off to the paint shop, and then I have to try to remember how it all goes > > back together. > > > > Still shootin for a June completion date... > > > > Who's an optimist.... > > Nick in Nor Cal > > > From beeline@iline.com Mon Mar 1 06:40:13 1999 From: Alexander Joseph H To: "'Amici Triumphi'" Date: Tue, 23 Mar 1999 14:40:23 -0600 Subject: Another One Mark Bradakis: Art De Armand (sp?) Please add Art to the list. Art has a classic car restoration shop and has raced a TR3 in the past. He is lives and works in Swisher, Iowa which is a short distance from Cedar Rapids He will have two Triumphs in his shop shortly. One will be prepared to vintage race specifications. He will likely add technical information support to the list as well as seeking it. He can introduce himself as he wishes. Joe Alexander From beeline@iline.com Mon Mar 1 06:40:13 1999 From: Alexander Joseph H To: "'Amici Triumphi'" Date: Tue, 23 Mar 1999 14:52:53 -0600 Subject: Aluminum Sump I sent out a FOT note regarding the availability of an Aluminum Sump. It belongs to John Plott of Tallahassee I believe I got the address wrong. Sorry! Joe Alexander It is: plott@tdo.infi.net From beeline@iline.com Mon Mar 1 06:40:13 1999 From: Alexander Joseph H To: "'Amici Triumphi'" Date: Tue, 23 Mar 1999 15:30:50 -0600 Subject: Amici Triumphi T-Shirts/Mid-Ohio Hello FOT, One of the FOT proposes to supply a silk screened T-Shirt with our impressive Petrolati created LOGO. This T-shirt could be advanced ordered from FOT/Vendor who will be at Mid-Ohio. Any of those that do not attend, could have the T-Shirt mailed. The MGVR group already has regalia of this nature and will likely be donning T-Shirts with their LOGO. Not wishing to get into commercial issues, I also do not want a bunch of bunch of spiffy looking MG pilotos looking better than us. I do not want to keep track of this FOT project. I think the purveyors of such goods can control this best, but I would like to get a majority on the acceptance of this. It should be a high quality T-Shirt, but I can not tell what the price point will be. Of course the vendor needs a profit for his effort, but I am sure they will be fair. If the run of T-shirts is successful, perhaps they can expand into additional offerings of regalia at your market bidding. What say ye, FOT? One more thing...... I had a recent inquiry for the FOT decal. This brings to mind, the potential for another decal run, if it is desired. If this is the case we need to discuss who will do the work on this. The first run of patches and decals was my pleasure and I enjoyed doing it. However, I am retiring in 25 working days and I simply will not have the time to deal with it. :-) I have enough work lined up in front of me for a year. Most of it is Triumph work, btw. From beeline@iline.com Mon Mar 1 06:40:13 1999 From: Bob Lang To: Alexander Joseph H Date: Tue, 23 Mar 1999 16:58:56 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: Amici Triumphi T-Shirts/Mid-Ohio Hi, I'm all for this idea. I think $10 is a good price point for a t-shirt (plus shipping, of course), but might not be do-able in quantities less than 25 or so. Bob says "go for it". And no, sorry too busy to take the job on... in fact I'm too busy to go to work! But I have to get some bacon so I can make that TR6 scream! Ah, the price of the "habit"... rml ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Bob Lang Room N42-140Q | This space for rent. Consultant MIT Computer Services | Voice: (617)253-7438 FAX: (617)258-9535 | ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From beeline@iline.com Mon Mar 1 06:40:13 1999 From: "Gregory Petrolati" To: AlexanderJosephH@Waterloo.deere.com, fot@autox.team.net Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1999 07:38:11 PST Subject: Re: Amici Triumphi T-Shirts/Mid-Ohio >From: Alexander Joseph H >To: "'Amici Triumphi'" >CC: "'Palmer Mark'" ,"'De Armond Art'" >Subject: Amici Triumphi T-Shirts/Mid-Ohio >Date: Tue, 23 Mar 1999 15:30:50 -0600 > > >Hello FOT, > >One of the FOT proposes to supply a silk screened T-Shirt with our >impressive Petrolati created LOGO. > >This T-shirt could be advanced ordered from FOT/Vendor who will be at >Mid-Ohio. Any of those that do not attend, could have the T-Shirt mailed. > Put me down for 2!:) >bunch of spiffy looking MG pilotos looking better than us. > Damn straight! We don't get no respect... > >It should be a high quality T-Shirt, but I can not tell what the price point >will be. Have the vendor give you a price for Gildan 100% cotton tees... The Champagne show will be ordering Gildans instead of Haines Beefy Tees this year... They are better quality and the shirts are longer in the body >If the run of T-shirts is successful, perhaps they can expand into >additional offerings of regalia at your market bidding. > >What say ye, FOT? go for it!!!! > >One more thing...... > >I had a recent inquiry for the FOT decal. This brings to mind, the potential >for another decal run, if it is desired. If this is the case we need to >discuss who will do the work on this. > >The first run of patches and decals was my pleasure and I enjoyed doing it. >However, I am retiring in 25 working days and I simply will not have the time to deal with it. :-) I have enough work lined up in front of me for a >year. Most of it is Triumph work, btw. Have fun... Greg Petrolati Greg Petrolati Champaign, Illinois 1962 TR4 (CT4852L) That's not a leak... My car's just marking its territory... ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From beeline@iline.com Mon Mar 1 06:40:13 1999 From: Catpusher@aol.com To: fot@autox.team.net Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1999 17:35:10 EST Subject: Fwrd. 1 attempt to save SCCA Prod (long) FOT: Bob Bennett called me recently and faxed a copy of the following letter after we spent quite some time discussing the issues involved. He races an MGB, and used to race in BP and AP. I feel that this letter is very important, and hope that it gets to many SCCA Production racers. I scanned the fax & OCRd it to avoid a dreaded attachment file, (Hi MJB) so slight changes may have happened. Thank You Hardy Prentice ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ -- An Open Letter to the S.C.C.A. Competition Board Serious Questions are being raised as to the methods used to classify the Caterham 7 into E Production. The car is not a Production car as defined in 12.1.1 B 3 of the General Competition Rules. Neither is it an upgrade of the Lotus 7, since it's made by a different manufacturer, has a different engine, has a different suspension, and most of all a different name. This car is a kit for "home assembly", hardly in keeping with the spirit of production racing. Next we'll be homologating go-karts or kit Cobras. Furthermore, I'm more concerned about the steps taken to classify this car. Steps which makes a prudent racer of the "old guard" ask who's pushing this through and why? The "7" was initially recommended for classification by the Customer Service Manager of SCCA Pro Racing, Eric Prill on Sept.9, 1998. He's an SCCA member, a Lotus 7 competitor, and an SCCA Employee. Before the board could recommend the subject for member input, the Caterham Company had already distributed a press release that the car had already been approved on Oct.30, 1998. Why? They advertised in the January edition of Sports Car, that the car had already been classified in E. Prod. The truth was the motion had been tabled as reported in the same issue. Not to be defeated, the Comp. Board used it's errors and omissions power in it's meeting the following month to classify the car by saying it was now a Lotus 7. (a current E Production car). These were made from 1959- 73. Go figure. Do they really expect us to believe this? Let's see, those are the same errors and omissions rules that allowed Competition Board member, Bob Boig to win the E. Production National Championship after he was disqualified for running oversize valves at the Runoffs. I realize that chairman Philip Creighton feels that the "SCCA cannot survive on racing 30 to 40 year old sports cars" and they "must get rid of the last ten years of force feeding cars into restricted slots to appease the old guard." You see Mr. Creighton this has nothing to do with allowing newer legal production cars in racing. All we want is for the performance potential to be equal and for the Comp. Board to follow the rules. lf that means more restricted slots (i.e. classes) must be made available, so be it. Besides, most of the production cars being raced today are being driven by the "Old Guard" as you call us. The SCCA should still be a club with all the members interests at heart, this isn't NASCAR. The classification of an illegal kit car as a production car isn't the handiwork of a member driven organization Bob Bennett I totally agree with Mr. Bennett and request that you do not allow the Caterham 7 to run in any production class. Member________________ Member #_______________________ From beeline@iline.com Mon Mar 1 06:40:13 1999 From: Alexander Joseph H To: "'Amici Triumphi'" Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 08:46:50 -0600 Subject: Amici Triumphi T-Shirts Announcement: Ted & Doris Schumacher ("Motoring Xtras") proposed providing the subject T-Shirts, while we were in Sebring last week. I think the time has come.....the response was resounding...one illustrious FOT wants "12 large". The discussion surrounded having these shirts available at Mid-Ohio initially. Ted & Doris will have a booth there. They are on their way back from Florida. When they return they may provide a proposal and you can respond to them....I will step aside. I am well known for instigating but not always for executing. A couple comments forwarded from the FOT. One recommended a particular brand of shirt as it was of high quality. Please forward this information to Ted & Doris. This is good....as cheap shirts are uncomfortable and tend to stay in the drawer at my house. I wear the John Lye, Beady Eye, and Hardy Prentice T-Shirts frequently, with pride. Another FOT mentioned Polo Shirts...again, I will leave this in the realm of T & D. I suspect that they know best on how to handle these proposals as they are in the business and know the risks related to a narrow market. Your faithful FOT, Joe From beeline@iline.com Mon Mar 1 06:40:13 1999 From: ArthurK101@aol.com To: triumphs@autox.team.net, fot@autox.team.net, spitfires@autox.team.net Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 15:53:09 EST Subject: Vintage Triumph Register (VTR) S.E. Regional Folks, this is to announce the upcoming VTR SE Regional sponsored by the Triumph Club of Northern Florida (TCNF). Dates - October 27 through October 31 1999. Venue (location :-)) Lake City, Florida. At the intersection of Interstate Highways I-10 and I-75. I-10 goes from Jacksonville, Fl to Los Angeles, CA --so you westerners can jump on that. I-75 goes from Miami to Ft. Meyers, Fl and then to the Canadian border at Sault Ste. Marie -- so you mid-westerners (and Floridians) and can jump on that. You easterners can come down I-95 and across I-10. Events - AutoX, Concours, Participants Choice, Funkhana and the usually fun swilling, swapping stories and buying/swapping car parts etc. More to come as the planning moves along. Y'ALL COME, Mark your calendars Cheers. Art Kelly Triumph Club of N. Florida From beeline@iline.com Mon Mar 1 06:40:13 1999 From: DLMAssoc@aol.com To: fot@autox.team.net Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 20:30:27 EST Subject: Re: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly FOTers: The discussion of bell housing breakage in early TR4s is very timely for me... I'm ready to put one in a car but have stopped till I figure out what to do to minimize the possibility of cracking. Kas has explained about the "gong" device they used to use, and Nick (at least I think it was Nick) has recommended welding braces from the bell housing to the tranny. Another "old" TR racer I talked to today said the problem was probably caused by the combination of engine and tranny flexing, since they were supported only by the front motor mounts and the tranny mount at the rear. Without support in the middle, the flexing would break the bell housing. He said he used to install motor mounts at the rear of the engine to eliminate the flex. This seems to make sense, but I wonder if anyone else has done this or is there some reason this wouldn't take care of it. Thanks... Don Marshall From beeline@iline.com Mon Mar 1 06:40:13 1999 From: "R. KASTNER" To: DLMAssoc@AOL.COM Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 10:15:58 -0800 Subject: Re: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly Indeed we had problems with the transmission/bellhousing cracking, but, remember we were using the engine and CAR at the highest amount of usage, I.E. high revs for at least thirty to forty-five minute races. This is 6500 revs for a good long time.As you have surmised there is a method of aiding the situation,the mounts, and indeed this does help. We did make mounts that supported the junction of the engine to the transmission. We used small rubber engine mounts with long strap iron brackets that came down to the bell housing bolts and the mounts were on each side of the battery box. This did make a positive difference. But, we never had this problem until we started making real power, that is above 150 BHP. We broke at least ten or fifteen of the gearbox housings until we made the hangers with rubber mounts . We still cracked the casings , but the whole business at least held togeather for the length of the event. At one time I also welded side plates onto the the gearbox case but they also cracked. This was probably because they were very soft after being annealed by the welding. I think I might have worried a lot of people without cause for most will probably NEVER use the cars and engines as hard as we did at that time. I'll try to answer any comments on this. DLMAssoc@aol.com wrote: > FOTers: > > The discussion of bell housing breakage in early TR4s is very timely for me... > I'm ready to put one in a car but have stopped till I figure out what to do to > minimize the possibility of cracking. > > Kas has explained about the "gong" device they used to use, and Nick (at least > I think it was Nick) has recommended welding braces from the bell housing to > the tranny. Another "old" TR racer I talked to today said the problem was > probably caused by the combination of engine and tranny flexing, since they > were supported only by the front motor mounts and the tranny mount at the > rear. Without support in the middle, the flexing would break the bell > housing. He said he used to install motor mounts at the rear of the engine to > eliminate the flex. This seems to make sense, but I wonder if anyone else has > done this or is there some reason this wouldn't take care of it. > > Thanks... > Don Marshall From beeline@iline.com Mon Mar 1 06:40:13 1999 From: "Bob Kramer" To: "R. KASTNER" , Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 11:44:02 -0600 Subject: Re: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly Let's not forget, we're all using transmission cases that were built at least 30 years ago, and probably have some 75,000+ road miles before we got ahold of them. I cracked the case on my TR3A last year and I'm no where near 150BHP. The system described below sounds like a worthy prevention device and not too difficult to create. Thanks for the input. Bob Kramer rgk@flash.net ---------- > From: R. KASTNER > To: DLMAssoc@AOL.COM > Cc: fot@autox.team.net > Subject: Re: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly > Date: Thursday, March 25, 1999 12:15 PM > > Indeed we had problems with the transmission/bellhousing cracking, but, > remember we were using the engine and CAR at the highest amount of > usage, I.E. high revs for at least thirty to forty-five minute races. > This is 6500 revs for a good long time.As you have surmised there is a > method of aiding the situation,the mounts, and indeed this does help. > We did make mounts that supported the junction of the engine to the > transmission. We used small rubber engine mounts with long strap iron > brackets that came down to the bell housing bolts and the mounts were on > each side of the battery box. This did make a positive difference. But, > we never had this problem until we started making real power, that is > above 150 BHP. We broke at least ten or fifteen of the gearbox housings > until we made the hangers with rubber mounts . We still cracked the > casings , but the whole business at least held togeather for the length > of the event. At one time I also welded side plates onto the the gearbox > case but they also cracked. This was probably because they were very > soft after being annealed by the welding. I think I might have worried a > lot of people without cause for most will probably NEVER use the cars > and engines as hard as we did at that time. I'll try to answer any > comments on this. > > > DLMAssoc@aol.com wrote: > > > FOTers: > > > > The discussion of bell housing breakage in early TR4s is very timely for me... > > I'm ready to put one in a car but have stopped till I figure out what to do to > > minimize the possibility of cracking. > > > > Kas has explained about the "gong" device they used to use, and Nick (at least > > I think it was Nick) has recommended welding braces from the bell housing to > > the tranny. Another "old" TR racer I talked to today said the problem was > > probably caused by the combination of engine and tranny flexing, since they > > were supported only by the front motor mounts and the tranny mount at the > > rear. Without support in the middle, the flexing would break the bell > > housing. He said he used to install motor mounts at the rear of the engine to > > eliminate the flex. This seems to make sense, but I wonder if anyone else has > > done this or is there some reason this wouldn't take care of it. > > > > Thanks... > > Don Marshall From beeline@iline.com Mon Mar 1 06:40:13 1999 From: Bill Babcock To: "R. KASTNER" , DLMAssoc@AOL.COM Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 09:49:55 -0800 Subject: RE: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------_=_NextPart_001_01BE77B1.0F2313A0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" I have built solid mounts for my engine that locate it a little more than an inch lower (the stock pan is parallel with the bottom of the frame) and used a urethane mount for the transmission. Anyone had experience with this? Am I asking for trouble? I've been using that configuration for about ten races. A little harsh for the street, but I don't break mounts any more. -----Original Message----- From: R. KASTNER [mailto:kaskas@earthlink.net] Sent: Thursday, March 25, 1999 10:16 AM To: DLMAssoc@AOL.COM Cc: fot@autox.team.net Subject: Re: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly Indeed we had problems with the transmission/bellhousing cracking, but, remember we were using the engine and CAR at the highest amount of usage, I.E. high revs for at least thirty to forty-five minute races. This is 6500 revs for a good long time.As you have surmised there is a method of aiding the situation,the mounts, and indeed this does help. We did make mounts that supported the junction of the engine to the transmission. We used small rubber engine mounts with long strap iron brackets that came down to the bell housing bolts and the mounts were on each side of the battery box. This did make a positive difference. But, we never had this problem until we started making real power, that is above 150 BHP. We broke at least ten or fifteen of the gearbox housings until we made the hangers with rubber mounts . We still cracked the casings , but the whole business at least held togeather for the length of the event. At one time I also welded side plates onto the the gearbox case but they also cracked. This was probably because they were very soft after being annealed by the welding. I think I might have worried a lot of people without cause for most will probably NEVER use the cars and engines as hard as we did at that time. I'll try to answer any comments on this. DLMAssoc@aol.com wrote: > FOTers: > > The discussion of bell housing breakage in early TR4s is very timely for me... > I'm ready to put one in a car but have stopped till I figure out what to do to > minimize the possibility of cracking. > > Kas has explained about the "gong" device they used to use, and Nick (at least > I think it was Nick) has recommended welding braces from the bell housing to > the tranny. Another "old" TR racer I talked to today said the problem was > probably caused by the combination of engine and tranny flexing, since they > were supported only by the front motor mounts and the tranny mount at the > rear. Without support in the middle, the flexing would break the bell > housing. He said he used to install motor mounts at the rear of the engine to > eliminate the flex. This seems to make sense, but I wonder if anyone else has > done this or is there some reason this wouldn't take care of it. > > Thanks... > Don Marshall ------_=_NextPart_001_01BE77B1.0F2313A0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable RE: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly

I have built solid mounts for my engine that locate = it a little more than an inch lower (the stock pan is parallel with the = bottom of the frame) and used a urethane mount for the transmission. = Anyone had experience with this? Am I asking for trouble? I've been = using that configuration for about ten races. A little harsh for the = street, but I don't break mounts any more.

-----Original Message-----
From: R. KASTNER [mailto:kaskas@earthlink.net]
Sent: Thursday, March 25, 1999 10:16 AM
To: DLMAssoc@AOL.COM
Cc: fot@autox.team.net
Subject: Re: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly


Indeed we had problems with the = transmission/bellhousing cracking, but,
remember we were using the engine and CAR at the = highest amount of
usage, I.E. high revs for at least thirty to = forty-five minute races.
This is 6500 revs for a good long time.As you have = surmised there is a
method of aiding the situation,the mounts, and = indeed this does help.
We did make mounts that supported the junction of = the engine to the
transmission. We used small rubber engine mounts = with long strap iron
brackets that came down to the bell housing bolts = and the mounts were on
each side of the battery box. This did make a = positive difference. But,
we never had this problem until we started making = real power, that is
above 150 BHP. We broke at least ten or fifteen of = the gearbox housings
until we made the hangers with rubber mounts . We = still cracked the
casings , but the whole business at least held = togeather for the length
of the event. At one time I also welded side plates = onto the the gearbox
case but they also cracked. This was probably = because they were very
soft after being annealed by the welding. I think I = might have worried a
lot of people without cause for most will probably = NEVER use the cars
and engines as hard as we did at that time. I'll try = to answer any
comments on this.


DLMAssoc@aol.com wrote:

> FOTers:
>
> The discussion of bell housing breakage in = early TR4s is very timely for me...
> I'm ready to put one in a car but have stopped = till I figure out what to do to
> minimize the possibility of cracking.
>
> Kas has explained about the "gong" = device they used to use, and Nick (at least
> I think it was Nick) has recommended welding = braces from the bell housing to
> the tranny.  Another "old" TR = racer I talked to today said the problem was
> probably caused by the combination of engine = and tranny flexing, since they
> were supported only by the front motor mounts = and the tranny mount at the
> rear.  Without support in the middle, the = flexing would break the bell
> housing.  He said he used to install motor = mounts at the rear of the engine to
> eliminate the flex.  This seems to make = sense, but I wonder if anyone else has
> done this or is there some reason this wouldn't = take care of it.
>
> Thanks...
> Don Marshall

------_=_NextPart_001_01BE77B1.0F2313A0-- From beeline@iline.com Mon Mar 1 06:40:13 1999 From: Bob Lang To: fot@autox.team.net Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 13:57:29 -0500 (EST) Subject: RE: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly Hi, Have to chime in here.... With respect to lowering the engine and trasmission, I see that the current production rules are pretty clear - this is a no-no. So, my question: was this sort of thing _ever_ legal for production classes? regards, rml ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Bob Lang Room N42-140Q | This space for rent. Consultant MIT Computer Services | Voice: (617)253-7438 FAX: (617)258-9535 | ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From beeline@iline.com Mon Mar 1 06:40:13 1999 From: DLMAssoc@aol.com To: fot@autox.team.net Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 15:45:38 EST Subject: Re: Pistons needed Amici: I'm sure this is a long shot, but does anyone have a set of TR4 flat top pistons, new or used, that they'd be willing to sell, as follows: Venolia or JE brand forged 87 mm bore 1.5mm, 1.5mm, 4.0mm ring size We've got Venolias ordered but we need to put the engine back together and they're apparently not going to come in for another couple weeks. Thanks... Don Marshall From beeline@iline.com Mon Mar 1 06:40:13 1999 From: Ted Schumacher To: fot@autox.team.net Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 17:12:49 -0500 Subject: sebring and other stuff first of all a big THANK YOU to joe and linda alexander and jack, frances and tony drews. they all worked for us at sebring. great help in a really busy time. thanks again. next, the 12 hour race. closest race ever - about a 9 second spread at the end. we had the panoz team immediately behind us and next to them was the dyson team and so on down the line. butch leitzinger - winner of the 24 hour daytona and 2nd at sebring - and his family are long time friends and we raced against both butch and his dad. on thurs i asked butch how the car was and he replied it was good at low and high speed but had some problems at intermediate speeds. they were sure it waaaan't springs, shocks or swaybars so they played with the aerodynamics. what a treat to have a car that responsive. the hsr vintage was a decent but not large turnout. they ran some early sessons but primarily on sunday after the 12 hour. anyhow, it was nice to be able to spend a week with current cars and then follow with the contrast of sebring from yesteryear. FOT T.shirts have been requested. joe, doris and i discused this during the race week-end. we can do Amici Triumphi logo as a large front print on a t.shirt. i would suggest using a white shirt. this will keep the cost down since the white in the shirt will become the white in the logo. screen printing costs increse by the number of colors and also the number of reruns on the shirt. example, it costs more to do a small front "left chest" print and a large print on the back since the shirt is twice - once on front and again on the back. i would suggest a front print only. shirts will be a heavy weight 50/50 or 100% cotton. price is about the same so wishes of the group prevail. we have also had request for polo shirts. these would have a small - about 3" - amci logo embroidered on the left chest. i will scan some polo shirts pictures and forward to the list. thanks, ted -- tedtsimx@q1.net http://www.tsimportedautomotive.com Fax: 419/ 384-3272 (24 hrs.) Phone: 800/ 543-6648 (US & Canada) Tech/Gen Info/Worldwide: 419/ 384-3022 ****************************************************** New - used - rebuilt - performance British car parts. 200-300 cars in our British salvage yard. From beeline@iline.com Mon Mar 1 06:40:13 1999 From: Catpusher@aol.com To: fot@autox.team.net, Kaskas@earthlink.net Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 18:01:53 EST Subject: Re: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly For those of you that insist on flogging your TRs, a little TR3 history, and my solution. Quite a few seasons ago I had a series of races that I successfully completed with the smell of gear oil. I was cracking the main case, as well as the tail housing. Because I inspected the gearbox after every track session, it never caused a DNF, but it was expensive and time consuming. The balance and truth of the motor parts, gearbox parts, drive shaft, and rear axle flange were all blueprinted with little improvement. We tried brand new cases/tail hsgs, and good, used cases/tail hsgs. We made certain that all important surfaces were flat and true. Tracks with bumpy, banked corners were the worst. Willow Springs was one of the worst, but our lap record set with a cracking rear case held for a amazing number of years, and the 914 finished second. I consulted the GCR & PCS and Tech. I rejected the extra mount at the rear of the motor block because of weight and too much added time to R & R the motor or gearbox. Friend and fellow TR3 racer, Dennis Kelly,(C & D Engineering) came up with some stout aircraft cables and turnbuckles that I fitted with considerable thought re the gearbox centerline, on each side of the gearbox. They ran from a special top starter motor nut and a lower, special gearbox to block fastener, to the tail hsg/rear mount interface. The cables were tensioned and safety wired, and the problem went away. We had learned about the better main cases and used these all along. It was most convenient for the racer that Triumph never changed the main case part number on the all synchro box! Triumph had some brilliant people. HP From beeline@iline.com Mon Mar 1 06:40:13 1999 From: "Pat Ryan" To: "Vintage Race" , Date: Sun, 28 Mar 1999 07:36:55 -0600 Subject: Don't open "Important Message From [name] serious virus per AP and Dow Jones March 27, 1999 E-Mail Virus Spreads on Internet, Could Tie Up Traffic if Not Stopped By MARK BOSLET Dow Jones Newswires PALO ALTO, Calif. -- A computer virus that spread quickly across the Internet on Friday afternoon shut down e-mail servers at some companies and overloaded others with infected e-mail, industry executives said. Some executives fear the virus, which is dubbed Melissa and which preys on Microsoft Corp.'s Word 97 and Word 2000 software, could tie up traffic on the Internet on Monday if it is unstopped. A program to prevent the spread of the Melissa virus is available at www.sendmail.com. Microsoft has a patch available at: www.microsoft.com/security/ bulletins/ms99-002.asp CERT information about the virus is available on the Web at www.cert.org/advisories/ CA-99-04-Melissa- Macro-Virus.html. The virus enters a computer in an e-mail message labeled "Important Message >From [name]," where the name is the apparent sender's name. Melissa replicates itself when a computer user opens the e-mail and a Word-based attachment it contains. Once open and active, the virus sends infected e-mail to 50 new recipients it finds in the computer owner's address book. The virus shut down e-mail servers at Microsoft late Friday and hampered operations at other companies, such as Lucent Technologies Inc. said Eric Allman, chief technology officer at Send Mail Inc. Send Mail makes e-mail routing software used widely on the Internet. Representatives from Microsoft and Lucent couldn't be reached for comment. The body of the infected e-mail document reads: "Here's the document you asked for. Don't show it to anyone else." The Computer Emergency Response Team -- Carnegie Mellon's Department of Defense-funded computer security team -- first heard of the virus Friday afternoon and its members worked through the night to analyze the virus and develop a fix, CERT manager Katherine Fithen said. "We're getting so many reports from across the world that we know this is going to be a huge problem come Monday," Ms. Fithen said. Send Mail's Mr. Allman said Send Mail came up with a program to prevent the virus's spread. It simply identifies an e-mail with the label "Important Message From" and returns it to the sender. The program is available for download from the Send Mail web site. "Monday could be seriously painful for the Internet" if lots of users open and read e-mail messages infected with Melissa, Mr. Allman said. --The Associated Press contributed to this article. From beeline@iline.com Mon Mar 1 06:40:13 1999 From: Jaral48462@aol.com To: psryan@novazone.com, vintage-race@autox.team.net, fot@autox.team.net, Date: Sun, 28 Mar 1999 10:32:19 EST Subject: Re: Don't open "Important Message From [name] serious virus per AP and Dow J... I've just confirmed that the Subject Email is not a hoax. However the I wasn't able to open the Web Sites referred to in the text of the message. I was able to find confirmation at the University of Michigan Virus Buster's Web Site. To access their Web Site go to: University of Michigan Virus Busters http://www.itd.umich.edu/~wwwitd/virus-busters/ Page down to and click on this Hyperlink: Data Fellows* Click on: Melissa virus infects Word documents, spreads by e-mail This will get you to a full description of the Virus, its effects and where it originated. The information was posted March 26, 1999. Ron Mitchell Ortonville, MI 48462 Original post below: ****************************************************************************** *** March 27, 1999 E-Mail Virus Spreads on Internet, Could Tie Up Traffic if Not Stopped By MARK BOSLET Dow Jones Newswires PALO ALTO, Calif. -- A computer virus that spread quickly across the Internet on Friday afternoon shut down e-mail servers at some companies and overloaded others with infected e-mail, industry executives said. Some executives fear the virus, which is dubbed Melissa and which preys on Microsoft Corp.'s Word 97 and Word 2000 software, could tie up traffic on the Internet on Monday if it is unstopped. A program to prevent the spread of the Melissa virus is available at www.sendmail.com. Microsoft has a patch available at: www.microsoft.com/security/ bulletins/ms99-002.asp CERT information about the virus is available on the Web at www.cert.org/advisories/ CA-99-04-Melissa- Macro-Virus.html. The virus enters a computer in an e-mail message labeled "Important Message >From [name]," where the name is the apparent sender's name. Melissa replicates itself when a computer user opens the e-mail and a Word- based attachment it contains. Once open and active, the virus sends infected e-mail to 50 new recipients it finds in the computer owner's address book. The virus shut down e-mail servers at Microsoft late Friday and hampered operations at other companies, such as Lucent Technologies Inc. said Eric Allman, chief technology officer at Send Mail Inc. Send Mail makes e-mail routing software used widely on the Internet. Representatives from Microsoft and Lucent couldn't be reached for comment. The body of the infected e-mail document reads: "Here's the document you asked for. Don't show it to anyone else." The Computer Emergency Response Team -- Carnegie Mellon's Department of Defense-funded computer security team -- first heard of the virus Friday afternoon and its members worked through the night to analyze the virus and develop a fix, CERT manager Katherine Fithen said. "We're getting so many reports from across the world that we know this is going to be a huge problem come Monday," Ms. Fithen said. Send Mail's Mr. Allman said Send Mail came up with a program to prevent the virus's spread. It simply identifies an email with the label "Important Message From" and returns it to the sender. The program is available for download from the Send Mail web site. "Monday could be seriously painful for the Internet" if lots of users open and read e-mail messages infected with Melissa, Mr. Allman said. --The Associated Press contributed to this article. From beeline@iline.com Mon Mar 1 06:40:13 1999 From: DWhitesdJr@aol.com To: psryan@novazone.com, vintage-race@autox.team.net, fot@autox.team.net Date: Sun, 28 Mar 1999 11:59:08 EST Subject: Re: Don't open "Important Message From [name] serious virus per AP and Dow J... In a message dated 3/28/99 7:50:40 AM Central Standard Time, psryan@novazone.com writes: << The virus enters a computer in an e-mail message labeled "Important Message From [name]," where the name is the apparent sender's name. Melissa replicates itself when a computer user opens the e-mail and a Word-based attachment it contains >> A word to the wise --- NEVER open a file from someone you don't know well. From beeline@iline.com Mon Mar 1 06:40:13 1999 From: Jack Wheeler To: fot@autox.team.net Date: Mon, 29 Mar 1999 13:01:20 -0600 Subject: TR-6 Rubber Damper I am rebuilding a 1974 TR-6 engine for a friend. She bought the car new, so we know it has 116K miles on it, and the damper is the original one. When I disassembled the engine, I noticed the rubber was badly cracked on the front side of the damper, and on the back side was starting to 'ooze' out of the groove. Is this is a common problem on the TR-6? Does anyone have any suggestions as to how to proceed. Are new dampers available? Does anyone rebuild them? How about good used ones? I appreciate any advice you can give us! From beeline@iline.com Mon Mar 1 06:40:13 1999 From: "Bob Kramer" To: , "Jack Wheeler" Date: Mon, 29 Mar 1999 15:41:26 -0600 Subject: Re: TR-6 Rubber Damper I just went through this with a friend. He was able to locate a apparnatly good used one through this list. I also found out that Rimmer Bros still lists them in their catalog, but did not check availability. Bob Kramer rgk@flash.net ---------- > From: Jack Wheeler > To: fot@autox.team.net > Subject: TR-6 Rubber Damper > Date: Monday, March 29, 1999 1:01 PM > > I am rebuilding a 1974 TR-6 engine for a friend. She bought the car new, > so we know it has 116K miles on it, and the damper is the original one. > When I disassembled the engine, I noticed the rubber was badly cracked on > the front side of the damper, and on the back side was starting to 'ooze' > out of the groove. Is this is a common problem on the TR-6? > > Does anyone have any suggestions as to how to proceed. Are new dampers > available? Does anyone rebuild them? How about good used ones? I > appreciate any advice you can give us! > From beeline@iline.com Mon Mar 1 06:40:13 1999 From: Alexander Joseph H To: "'Palmer Mark'" Date: Tue, 30 Mar 1999 09:46:48 -0600 Subject: Newsletter Mark, Newsletter was delightful. Subtle reference to tractor based automotive engine goes much deeper, into my background, than you might have realized. Leading tractor on the track is, of course, Oliver's wet sleeved Waukesha gasoline engine. The amazing thing here is that my father was an Oliver dealer for 30 years and this was the start of my engine experience. Forty plus years later, things have not changed much for me. Acorn does not fall far from the tree, but my current version of the 'wet sleeve' experience is far more fun than in the ag repair shop version. Members of the FOT: an explanation here: The MG Vintage Racers (Mark Palmer) published a newsletter with the newsletter cover featuring a collage of MG and Triumphs on course and driven in anger. This issue effectively promotes the MG/Triumph Challenge at Mid-Ohio. At the lower left hand corner of the cover page is a gaggle of farm tractors competing on a road course, with a vintage Oliver tractor leading the pack. Of course we understand the reference here to the heritage of the sports TR engine. Mark made a serious appeal, in his nicely done newsletter, to the MG racers for entry to the Mid-Ohio MG/Triumph Challenge. "The gauntlet has been thrown" he says. Their group is 250 strong, but we are equal to the challenge. See you at Mid-Ohio. Joe From beeline@iline.com Mon Mar 1 06:40:13 1999 From: "Gregory Petrolati" To: AlexanderJosephH@Waterloo.deere.com, mgvrmark@hotmail.com Date: Tue, 30 Mar 1999 08:40:28 PST Subject: Re: Newsletter >"The gauntlet has been >thrown" he says. Their group is 250 strong, but we are equal to the >challenge. > >See you at Mid-Ohio. > >Joe > Do you think Group 44 will bring one of their Trans AM TR8s to the do? Winning is nice... winning handily... Well... It'll go a long way to salving MY feelings over all those times someone says to me, "Hey, nice MG..." Greg Petrolati Greg Petrolati Champaign, Illinois 1962 TR4 (CT4852L) That's not a leak... My car's just marking its territory... ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From beeline@iline.com Mon Mar 1 06:40:13 1999 From: Patrick McMullen To: Gregory Petrolati Date: Tue, 30 Mar 1999 17:21:38 -0800 Subject: Re: Newsletter Last I heard, One of the Group 44 TR-8's was for sale. I believe it was John Kellys. I do know of another TR-8 that is planning on attending. Freshly restored, hughly fast! Ex Ken Slagle car! Enough said. Pat in NC From beeline@iline.com Mon Mar 1 06:40:13 1999 From: bwarner@mediaone.net To: pmcmull@ibm.net Date: Tue, 30 Mar 1999 19:43:25 -0500 Subject: Re: Newsletter Patrick McMullen wrote: > > Last I heard, > > One of the Group 44 TR-8's was for sale. I believe it was John > Kellys. > > I do know of another TR-8 that is planning on attending. Freshly > restored, hughly fast! Ex Ken Slagle car! Enough said. > > Pat in NC I've made an offer on John Kelly's car, but so far no acceptance. Bob T. still has the other one, but he is not interested in racing it anymore. Prefers to fly his P-51. I need to make motel reservations for Mid-Ohio. Any suggestions close to the track? Bill Warner From beeline@iline.com Mon Mar 1 06:40:13 1999 From: "Gregory Petrolati" To: bwarner@mediaone.net, pmcmull@ibm.net Date: Tue, 30 Mar 1999 17:45:46 PST Subject: Re: Newsletter >From: bwarner@mediaone.net >Reply-To: bwarner@mediaone.net >To: pmcmull@ibm.net >CC: Gregory Petrolati ,AlexanderJosephH@Waterloo.deere.com, mgvrmark@hotmail.com,fot@autox.team.net, sbidlack@midohio.com >Subject: Re: Newsletter >Date: Tue, 30 Mar 1999 19:43:25 -0500 > >I've made an offer on John Kelly's car, but so far no acceptance. Bob >T. still has the other one, but he is not interested in racing it >anymore. Prefers to fly his P-51. I need to make motel reservations >for Mid-Ohio. Any suggestions close to the track? Bill Warner I'm staying at the Travelodge in Mansfield (419) 756-7600 You might see if they still have rooms available. Greg Petrolati Greg Petrolati Champaign, Illinois 1962 TR4 (CT4852L) That's not a leak... My car's just marking its territory... ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From beeline@iline.com Mon Mar 1 06:40:13 1999 From: TRBILBO@aol.com To: jwheeler@robus.com, fot@autox.team.net Date: Tue, 30 Mar 1999 21:45:23 EST Subject: Re: TR-6 Rubber Damper Hi Jack... I've seen many an innovative fix...injections...home made recasting....most don't work except in the mind of the inventors. Don't pull on the outer ring (of course). The 'ooze' and cracking does NOT represent a failure in and of itself. If cosmetic, seal it in black silicone rubber...paint it...use it. Have rebuilt a dozen or more engines with up to three hundred thousand miles with original dampers. If it rotates about the hub or flexes excessively by hand...replace it. There are outfits in Hemmings that will rebuild these. Look under 65 Mustangs...and 55 T Birds especially (I own a '55 bird and know dampers are non available and therefore rebuilding is the only current recourse)....rebuilders listed there for sure. Used ones (TR6) abound at swap meets on the west coast....I may even have an extra if I can dig deep enough...but sure it would have surface cracks and ooze too. My 70 TR6 has 140,000 cross country miles and head hasn't been off yet....but the damper is structurally sound....cracks, ooze and all. Hoepfully what you got is good for another 60 or 70 thousand miles....or 20 years...whichever comes first. So unless it's already in two pieces...I'd say don't fret it...use it. Just my (experienced ) two bits for what it is worth. Bill (and Joanne) Burroughs, VTR So West Rep, E Ticket Triumphs Vintage Race Team, Founder SCTOA 70 TR6, 69 TR250, 73 MkIV, 69 GT6+, 59 TR3A and two 65 TR4A Vintage Race Cars. Happy Motoring!! From beeline@iline.com Mon Mar 1 06:40:13 1999 From: "Baxter Culver" To: Date: Tue, 30 Mar 1999 20:37:37 -0800 Subject: Peyote MKII FOT'rs-- It is with a heavy heart that I must announce the availability for purchase of the "infamous" Peyote Special. You, however, should look at my decision as an opportunity! This triumph based special, a child of the late Wm. Ames, has a bit of a reputation and a demonstrated ability to run with some fairly significant Big Dogs! I would like the car to remain in the hands of a die-hard vintage Triumph racer. One who knows how to maintain it and squeeze the last once of performance out of TR parts: The grin factor, when on the track with expensive german or english factory racers (and ahead of them) is hard to explain. So-- For Sale: The "Infamous Peyote Special" A 1957 TR-3 (based) Sports Racer Bill Ames' 1959 creation Vintage Eligible everywhere (current log book) Documented History '57 TR3 frame, suspension, brakes; 89barrels, carillo's, close-ration trans, tilton clutch assy, new head, new header, mallory ign. quaiffe diff; pop-rivets galore, hand-crafted aluminum sheet, fast enough to kill porsches and various lotus. 7 Monterey Historic stickers (7 entries--5 top 5 positions) $25K w/ enclosed custom trailer. You can't go faster for less in any other vintage sports racer today--and it's a Triumph! e-mail: peyote222@msn.com ph: 916.482.0474 (h) From beeline@iline.com Mon Mar 1 06:40:13 1999 From: Alexander Joseph H To: "'Jensen Carl'" , "'Woehrle Jack'" Date: Wed, 31 Mar 1999 08:33:34 -0600 Subject: SVRA Request for Entry-Mid-Ohio's MG/Triumph Challenge Good morning SVRA!!! What is the best method of requesting entry forms for the Mid-Ohio MG/Triumph Challenge? Particularly for non-members. Time to start sending them in, I'd say. It is another way that we can get a head of the MG guys. See you at the checkered flag. I need one: Joe Alexander 1710 Cherry Lane Cedar Falls, Iowa 50613 Thanks, Joe From beeline@iline.com Mon Mar 1 06:40:13 1999 From: BillDentin@aol.com To: AlexanderJosephH@waterloo.deere.com, Jensen87@aol.com, JWoesvra@aol.com Date: Wed, 31 Mar 1999 09:54:10 EST Subject: Re: SVRA Request for Entry-Mid-Ohio's MG/Triumph Challenge Joe: I got mine! I joined the SVRA (back in 1986, I think). Bill Dentinger From beeline@iline.com Mon Mar 1 06:40:13 1999 From: Alexander Joseph H To: "'Amici Triumphi'" Date: Wed, 31 Mar 1999 10:57:27 -0600 Subject: Panoramic Picture-Mid-Ohio in June Amici Triumphi Panoramic Photo....think of it. It will be so spectacular that Bill Warner, Greg Petrolati, and Tim Suddard will want to write Pulitzer Prize winning articles and submit to Road & Track, Victory Lane, and Tim's mag, Grassroots Motorsports. Think of it if Bob Kamholtz (Eat Cheese or Die) can have his car featured in Road & Track, so can we. Besides the MG guys are going to do it....we have to now, dont you think?. Some discussion, if it works logistically, is to combine the MGs and Triumphs. (Thanks once again to Mark Palmer, who is making the arrangements) In 1992, the plan was for a very early arrival at the track for the photo session on Saturday or Sunday. Regards, Joe From beeline@iline.com Mon Mar 1 06:40:13 1999 From: Susan Hensley To: Alexander Joseph H Date: Wed, 31 Mar 1999 11:17:46 -0600 Subject: Re: Panoramic Picture-Mid-Ohio in June Hi all! Have we contacted British Car, AutoWeek, Car and Driver, Grassroots Motorsports, etc. et al about coverage of this historically significant event? I would run a story/photo spread on something like that if I were in the business... Forgive me if this has been brought up before, but I have been out of the loop for a bit due to an icky upper respiratory infection. Sniff. Keep Triumphing, Susan :) From beeline@iline.com Mon Mar 1 06:40:13 1999 From: "Mark Palmer" To: susan@bearcom.com, AlexanderJosephH@Waterloo.deere.com Date: Wed, 31 Mar 1999 11:00:16 PST Subject: Re: Panoramic Picture-Mid-Ohio in June Susan, Joe, et al, Good idea -- we MG drivers usually try to do this for our big events, too. Will be glad to help write/distribute. Time to do this is now, actually would have been better to do a couple months ago, oh, well. Let me know if one of the Triumphers wants to lead the effort (I hope). Regards, Mark >From: Susan Hensley >To: Alexander Joseph H >CC: "'Amici Triumphi'" ,"'Bidlack Steve'" ,"'Palmer Mark'" ,"'Kamholtz Bob'" >Subject: Re: Panoramic Picture-Mid-Ohio in June >Date: Wed, 31 Mar 1999 11:17:46 -0600 > >Hi all! > >Have we contacted British Car, AutoWeek, Car and Driver, Grassroots >Motorsports, etc. et al about coverage of this historically significant >event? I would run a story/photo spread on something like that if I >were in the business... > >Forgive me if this has been brought up before, but I have been out of >the loop for a bit due to an icky upper respiratory infection. Sniff. > >Keep Triumphing, >Susan :) ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From beeline@iline.com Mon Mar 1 06:40:13 1999 From: bwarner@mediaone.net To: Mark Palmer Date: Wed, 31 Mar 1999 19:07:04 -0500 Subject: Re: Panoramic Picture-Mid-Ohio in June Mark Palmer wrote: > > Susan, Joe, et al, > > Good idea -- we MG drivers usually try to do this for our big events, > too. Will be glad to help write/distribute. Time to do this is now, > actually would have been better to do a couple months ago, oh, well. > > Let me know if one of the Triumphers wants to lead the effort (I hope). > > Regards, > Mark > > >From: Susan Hensley > >To: Alexander Joseph H > >CC: "'Amici Triumphi'" ,"'Bidlack Steve'" > ,"'Palmer Mark'" ,"'Kamholtz > Bob'" > >Subject: Re: Panoramic Picture-Mid-Ohio in June > >Date: Wed, 31 Mar 1999 11:17:46 -0600 > > > >Hi all! > > > >Have we contacted British Car, AutoWeek, Car and Driver, Grassroots > >Motorsports, etc. et al about coverage of this historically significant > >event? I would run a story/photo spread on something like that if I > >were in the business... > > > >Forgive me if this has been brought up before, but I have been out of > >the loop for a bit due to an icky upper respiratory infection. Sniff. > > > >Keep Triumphing, > >Susan :) > > ______________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com We better get the EPA involved because if we get all those Triumphs and MG's in one spot, we'll have to file an environmental impact statement from all the oil we'll leave. Your pal, Bill From beeline@iline.com Mon Mar 1 06:40:13 1999 From: GRMTim@aol.com To: fot@autox.team.net Date: Wed, 31 Mar 1999 19:27:48 EST Subject: Re: Coverage of Mid Ohio in Grassroots Motorsports We are still tentatively planning on making the trek to Mid Ohio. I'm not sure that I have my co-driver, and chief mechanic (Triumph guru JK Jackson) convinced of the beauty of this trip. He does feel that the car will be ready in time, although there is no way we will make the Mitty. We probably will go to the Mitty sans TR3. We are planning on covering the both events in Grassroots Motorsports. For further updates, you can check out our much revamped website and new webboard at grmotorsports.com. Anyone who knows JK can hassle him for me. Please. Thanks Tim Suddard/Publisher/GRM From beeline@iline.com Mon Mar 1 06:40:13 1999 From: "Irv Korey" To: , Date: Wed, 31 Mar 1999 21:53:44 -0600 Subject: Re: Coverage of Mid Ohio in Grassroots Motorsports > From: GRMTim@aol.com > Anyone who knows JK can hassle him for me. Please. Anyone who knows JK knows he DOES NOT LIKE TO BE HASSLED. You are on your own, Tim. Good luck. Irv Korey 74 TR6 CF22767U Highland Park, IL