Subject: [Healeys] AF meter SU tuning

From: [email-masked]
Date: Sun, 12 Oct 2014 19:55:58 -0700 (PDT)

I have had my three wire O2sensors and AirFuel meter for quite a while but now thought I have the time to do something about the readings. 
I have a mostly stock BJ8 with Kirk headers, 10%ethanol. With stock needles, I cruise one meter segment LED rich at sea level and at 2000 feet, the next richer meter segment is flickering. Not so bad, I guess. The faster I go, the richer I get in a gradual manner. However, when I climb a hill during the cruise at around 70mph, the meter goes dead lean (one LED from zero). It usually shows completely lean at hard acceleration also. 
40mph cruise gives the same one LED rich as at 70.
So should I get some weaker springs first or try for a needle that tapers to rich faster after the cruise?
The web stuff I see says to try the needles.
Ken Freese
65 BJ8
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From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2014 07:10:03 -0700 (PDT)

The special stuff.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Oudesluys" <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Sent: Monday, October 13, 2014 12:46:57 AM
Subject: Re: [Healeys] AF meter SU tuning

What oil do you use in the dashpots? One should use thin oil like 3in1 
(best and cheap) or the special stuff sold for the purpose.
Kees Oudesluijs

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From: "Steve Gerow" <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2014 10:10:26 -0700

Ken,

These are my notes from an APT dyno session a couple of years ago:

According to the dyno-tuners, Advanced Performance Technology.

http://www.aptfast.com/

.this is what we learned at a session there: the spring issue is
counter-intuitive. According to APT, the going next step heavier spring will
often make an improvement in drivability. It will make the carb richer
throughout the range by increasing the air velocity past the jet. This has
more effect than raising the needle. Heavier damper oil will have the effect
of richening the mixture on acceleration as it retards the rise of the
piston while ultimately having no effect at cruise.

Together the two of them constitute the "accelerator pump" on the SU.

At the session, we observed this on my friend Peter Roses' 29D 100-6 by
swapping springs then making runs on the back streets in Riverside adjacent
to APT. One step heavier resulted in improved performance. Two steps heavier
not so good. Back to the original then settling on one-step heavier.

I've observed the heavier-oil richening. Both of us are running K&N air-fuel
meters so we can see the leanness and richness on the gauges for each carb.

<<< 

PS - APT said that some racers were using gear oil in their dashpots.

--

Steve Gerow

Altadena, CA, USA

BN6 - 29D engine, HD8s, Kirk headers
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From: "Roger Grace" <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2014 09:09:12 -0700

Thank you.
I was also wondering what sensors you used, and if you used/what type of 
signal conditioning .. ??
The ones I am looking at give a 5V signal out after some electronics.
rg

-----Original Message----- 
From: [email-masked]
Sent: Tuesday, October 14, 2014 7:18 AM
To: Roger Grace
Subject: Re: [Healeys] AF meter SU tuning

Roger,
I have two sensors and a switch. I can send you a wiring diagram if you 
wish. The switch is from the hardware store. Double throw double pole, I 
think. It has three positions. I used a underdash 2 gage panel and made a 
blanking plate to put the switch in the 2nd hole.
Ken

----- Original Message -----
From: "Roger Grace" <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked], "healeys" <[email-masked]>
Sent: Monday, October 13, 2014 9:59:44 AM
Subject: Re: [Healeys] AF meter SU tuning

This is very interesting to me, as now that have converted my '67 BJ8 to -ve
ground, one of my Winter projects is to install a pair of Bosch wideband O2
sensors.
So would really like to hear of your experiences when you did this, and what
sensors and monitoring equipment you are using ? Assume that you have
installed 2 sensors and have 2 monitors or do you switch ? How difficult was
it to install the bung for mounting the sensors ? Innovate are supposedly
coming out with a new model where you can monitor data on your phone.
As you have reported, this really does give a true indication of the SU
tuning at WOT and under load and cruising conditions; when all is said and
done the usual SU tuning
is done near idle and relies on the needle profile and springs etc. being
correct
for your engine, fuel, altitude and how you drive.
I do agree with "Blue Healy"  that what you have reported seems to point to
some fuel starvation at WOT -  SU and AH surely did not get the profile sooo
wrong.
Any input on this topic much appreciated.
rg

-----Original Message----- 
From: [email-masked]
Sent: Sunday, October 12, 2014 7:55 PM
To: healeys
Subject: [Healeys] AF meter SU tuning

I have had my three wire O2sensors and AirFuel meter for quite a while but
now thought I have the time to do something about the readings.
I have a mostly stock BJ8 with Kirk headers, 10%ethanol. With stock needles,
I cruise one meter segment LED rich at sea level and at 2000 feet, the next
richer meter segment is flickering. Not so bad, I guess. The faster I go,
the richer I get in a gradual manner. However, when I climb a hill during
the cruise at around 70mph, the meter goes dead lean (one LED from zero). It
usually shows completely lean at hard acceleration also.
40mph cruise gives the same one LED rich as at 70.
So should I get some weaker springs first or try for a needle that tapers to
rich faster after the cruise?
The web stuff I see says to try the needles.
Ken Freese
65 BJ8
Archive: http://www.team.net/archive

[email-masked]

http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/healeys/[email-masked] 
_______________________________________________
Archive: http://www.team.net/archive

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From: "Steve Gerow" <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2014 21:40:01 -0700

Peter Roses and I have been using the K&N meters for a couple of years.
We're big fans of this setup.

The square meter is the least expensive.

Save some money by buying the single-wire O2 sensors and mounting bungs from
an auto parts store.

I've noticed the leaning on acceleration (one carb only) and abated it by
using heavier dashpot oil. It's easy to experiment with dashpot oil and
springs with the meter.

--

Steve Gerow

BN6 morphed into a Test Bed
_______________________________________________
Archive: http://www.team.net/archive

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2014 06:24:44 -0700 (PDT)

Single wire O2 didn't work for me as it didn't get hot enough for a steady signal. I needed to use the 3 wire.
Ken Freese

----- Original Message -----
From: "Steve Gerow" <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Sent: Wednesday, October 15, 2014 9:40:01 PM
Subject: Re: [Healeys] AF meter SU tuning

 

--

Steve Gerow

[email-masked]

[email-masked]

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From: "Steve Gerow" <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2014 09:05:47 -0700

>  Single wire O2 didn't work for me as it didn't get hot enough for a
steady signal. I needed to use the 3 wire.

 

Interesting, Ken - where did you install them?

This shows Peter's and my installations in the down pipes near the frame
rail - both get hot enough in 30 secs or so.

http://www.pbase.com/stevegerow/exhaustanalyzer

We each bought a K&N square-gauge kit and in turn tried running both gauges
at the same time. Eventually we went to a switch as you have.

Peter's using both the K&N O2 sensors and I'm using two <$20 Bosch sensors -
all of which seem to work well.

-- 

Steve Gerow

Altadena, CA

BN6

[email-masked]

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From: "Steve Gerow" <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2014 09:10:17 -0700

Bob Spidell wrote:

<<< 

Anybody ever fit these to a positive ground car?

I'd certainly give K&N a call in Riverside.

--

Steve Gerow

Altadena, CA, USA

BN6

[email-masked]