Subject: [Healeys] water pumps and other repro parts

From: "[email-masked]" <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 02 Mar 2015 07:44:47 +0100

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Hi Michael,

	Yes, the fault is at both, the company who orders the part and the
supplier in China. The sample you usually get looks right when taking
measurements and you take it into parts. Often you have metric
dimensions internally instead of the imperial originally, i.e. M5
threads instead  of No 10 imperial. As a parts supplier you do not
have the sources to test the parts like water pumps on a test bench.
Usually the visual check is all you can do. Then you order a batch of
lets say 100 parts, pay them and wait for the feedback from your
customers. Usually this first batch is ok quality wise. Then you order
a second batch of 500 and get junk you have to live with as you have
already paid for them. No way to give the parts back.

	For such things like water pumps, tanks, brake/suspension parts, etc.
its very difficult to find suppliers outside China who offer to
reasonable prices, not 5 times more, than the supplier in China. Also
LUCAS or QH on the box doesn`t mean LUCAS or QH is inside. 

	Btw. I have seen one of your horn rims in the purchasing department
of our company and asked them  if we have these in our portfolio soon.
I told them I would take two or four. But they refused and told me
they are too pricy and there is no demand at all from customers.

	Josef Eckert 

	Konigswinter/Germany 

	-----Original-Nachricht----- 

	Betreff: Re: [Healeys] water pumps and other repro parts 

	Datum: Mon, 02 Mar 2015 00:12:14 +0100 

	Von: Michael Salter <[email-masked]> 

	An: "[email-masked]" <[email-masked]> 

	    Hi Josef, In your post you said "Most parts are ordered from
China. You get a sample, you order a batch of 100, 500 or 1000
pieces."
 I really believe that the fault lies largely with the company
ordering the parts. If a sample is supplied it behooves the purchaser
to thoroughly inspect and test the sample. The BJ8 water pumps are a
classic example. Anyone with just a little experience in the
rebuilding of water pumps could easily have disassembled such a sample
and determined that the internal parts were not the same as the
original pump and were just not up to the job. As an individual I have
managed to source the original seal and bearing from reputable
suppliers. 
Using those parts it would have been a lot easier to have the castings
made to the original specifications and an exact replica pump then
produced. The pumps that BMC produced were developed over many years
and to casually discard all that experience and think that one can
easily design an externally similar pump using adapted modern parts
that will be reliable, without extensive testing, is total folly. On
another note Bob is absolutely correct in that owners will opt for
reproduction parts over restored originals every time in the mistaken
belief that "new is better". Unfortunately the "disposable society"
has conditioned the most people to believe that new is always better!!
>From hard learned experience I will ALWAYS opt for a good restorable
original component over a new replacement every time even if it costs
a lot more. Flame away!!!

 Michael S BN1 #174  
 On Mon, Mar 2, 2015 at 4:11 AM, [email-masked] [1]
<[email-masked] [2]> wrote:
 Sorry, but this is very naive thinking. I am working part time for a
big parts supplier here in Europe.
 Most parts are ordered from China. You get a sample, you order a
batch of 100, 500 or 1000 pieces. Perhaps you get 5% customer
complains, which is normal, when the batch is slightly faulty you may
get 10% customer complains. When its more you will have to think about
the issue. When there are no complains, parts are not sent back, all
is fine, even parts are faulty and customers fix on their oown. Often
thee are no complains, even the part is faulty, but its cheaper than
the similar part from the competitor.
 To put in a quality control in the system would raise the net
purchase price to a double or tripple. Customers move to the
competitor, as you can`t sell it to the prize your competitor does.
You may not believe the low purchase prize of these parts from China,
but you need to buy batches of at least 100 parts. So when they are
faulty you need to sell most of them before you look for a different
supplier. You can`t send these parts back, as delivery costs are
higher than the parts value and Chinese suppliers are not very
customer friendly.

 Josef Eckert
 Konigswinter/Germany

Links:
------
[1] mailto:[email-masked]
[2] mailto:[email-masked]

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<html><head><title></title><meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"tex=
t/html; charset=3DUTF-8"/></head><body><p>&nbsp;</p>
<div style=3D"position: relative; color: #000000; font: 12px Arial,Helvetic=
a,sans-serif;">
<p style=3D"margin: 0px 5px 0px 0px;"><span style=3D"font-family: arial,hel=
vetica,sans-serif; font-size: 10pt; color: #000000;">Hi Michael,<br /></spa=
n></p>
<p style=3D"margin: 0px 5px 0px 0px;"><span style=3D"font-family: arial,hel=
vetica,sans-serif; font-size: 10pt; color: #000000;">Yes, the fault is at b=
oth, the company who orders the part and the supplier in China. The sample =
you usually get looks right when taking measurements and you take it into p=
arts. Often you have metric dimensions internally instead of the imperial o=
riginally, i.e. M5 threads instead&nbsp; of No 10 imperial. As a parts supp=
lier you do not have the sources to test the parts like water pumps on a te=
st bench. Usually the visual check is all you can do. Then you order a batc=
h of lets say 100 parts, pay them and wait for the feedback from your custo=
mers. Usually this first batch is ok quality wise. Then you order a second =
batch of 500 and get junk you have to live with as you have already paid fo=
r them. No way to give the parts back.<br /></span></p>
<p style=3D"margin: 0px 5px 0px 0px;"><span style=3D"font-family: arial,hel=
vetica,sans-serif; font-size: 10pt; color: #000000;">For such things like w=
ater pumps, tanks, brake/suspension parts, etc. its very difficult to find =
suppliers outside China who offer to reasonable prices, not 5 times more, t=
han the supplier in China. Also LUCAS or QH on the box doesn`t mean LUCAS o=
r QH is inside.</span></p>
<p style=3D"margin: 0px 5px 0px 0px;">&nbsp;</p>
<p style=3D"margin: 0px 5px 0px 0px;"><span style=3D"font-family: arial,hel=
vetica,sans-serif; font-size: 10pt; color: #000000;">Btw. I have seen one o=
f your horn rims in the purchasing department of our company and asked them=
&nbsp; if we have these in our portfolio soon. I told them I would take two=
 or four. But they refused and told me they are too pricy and there is no d=
emand at all from customers.<br /></span></p>
<p style=3D"margin: 0px 5px 0px 0px;">&nbsp;</p>
<p style=3D"margin: 0px 5px 0px 0px;"><span style=3D"font-family: arial,hel=
vetica,sans-serif; font-size: 10pt; color: #000000;">Josef Eckert</span></p=
<p style=3D"margin: 0px 5px 0px 0px;"><span style=3D"font-family: arial,hel=
vetica,sans-serif; font-size: 10pt; color: #000000;">Konigswinter/Germany</=
span></p>
<p style=3D"margin: 0px 5px 0px 0px;"><span style=3D"font-family: arial,hel=
vetica,sans-serif; font-size: 10pt; color: #000000;">&nbsp;</span></p>
<p style=3D"margin: 0px 5px 0px 0px;"><span style=3D"font-family: arial,hel=
vetica,sans-serif; font-size: 10pt; color: #000000;">&nbsp;</span></p>
<p style=3D"margin: 0px 5px 0px 0px;"><span style=3D"font-family: arial,hel=
vetica,sans-serif; font-size: 10pt; color: #000000;">-----Original-Nachrich=
t-----</span></p>
<p style=3D"margin: 0px 5px 0px 0px;"><span style=3D"font-family: arial,hel=
vetica,sans-serif; font-size: 10pt; color: #000000;">Betreff: Re: [Healeys]=
 water pumps and other repro parts</span></p>
<p style=3D"margin: 0px 5px 0px 0px;"><span style=3D"font-family: arial,hel=
vetica,sans-serif; font-size: 10pt; color: #000000;">Datum: Mon, 02 Mar 201=
5 00:12:14 +0100</span></p>
<p style=3D"margin: 0px 5px 0px 0px;"><span style=3D"font-family: arial,hel=
vetica,sans-serif; font-size: 10pt; color: #000000;">Von: Michael Salter &l=
t;[email-masked]&gt;</span></p>
<p style=3D"margin: 0px 5px 0px 0px;"><span style=3D"font-family: arial,hel=
vetica,sans-serif; font-size: 10pt; color: #000000;">An: "josef-eckert@t-on=
line.de" &lt;[email-masked]&gt;</span></p>
<p style=3D"margin: 0px 5px 0px 0px;"><span style=3D"font-family: arial,hel=
vetica,sans-serif; font-size: 10pt; color: #000000;">&nbsp;</span></p>
<p style=3D"margin: 0px 5px 0px 0px;"><span style=3D"font-family: arial,hel=
vetica,sans-serif; font-size: 10pt; color: #000000;">&nbsp;</span></p>
<div style=3D"position: relative; color: #000000; font: 12px Arial,Helvetic=
a,sans-serif;">
<div dir=3D"ltr">
<div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif=
; font-size: small;">Hi Josef,</div>
<div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif=
; font-size: small;">In your post you said<em> "Most parts are ordered from=
 China. You get a sample, you order a batch of 100, 500 or 1000 pieces."<br=
 /></em></div>
<div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif=
; font-size: small;">I really believe that the fault lies largely with the =
company ordering the parts.</div>
<div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif=
; font-size: small;">If a sample is supplied it behooves the purchaser to t=
horoughly inspect and test the sample. The BJ8 water pumps are a classic ex=
ample. Anyone with just a little experience in the rebuilding of water pump=
s could easily have disassembled such a sample and determined that the inte=
rnal parts were not the same as the original pump and were just not up to t=
he job.</div>
<div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif=
; font-size: small;">As an individual I have managed to source the original=
 seal and bearing from reputable suppliers. <br />Using those parts it woul=
d have been a lot easier to have the castings made to the original specific=
ations and an exact replica pump then produced.</div>
<div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif=
; font-size: small;">The pumps that BMC produced were developed over many y=
ears and to casually discard all that experience and think that one can eas=
ily design an externally similar pump using adapted modern parts that will =
be reliable, without extensive testing, is total folly.</div>
<div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif=
; font-size: small;">On another note Bob is absolutely correct in that owne=
rs will opt for reproduction parts over restored originals every time in th=
e mistaken belief that "new is better". Unfortunately the "disposable socie=
ty" has conditioned the most people to believe that new is always better!!<=
br />From hard learned experience I will ALWAYS opt for a good restorable o=
riginal component over a new replacement every time even if it costs a lot =
more.</div>
<div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif=
; font-size: small;">Flame away!!!<br /><br /></div>
<div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif=
; font-size: small;">Michael S</div>
<div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif=
; font-size: small;">BN1 #174</div>
</div>
<div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br />
<div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Mon, Mar 2, 2015 at 4:11 AM, <a href=3D"mailt=
o:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a> <span dir=3D"ltr">=
&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a=
>&gt;</span> wrote:<br />
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin: 0 0 0 .8ex; border-left:=
 1px #ccc solid; padding-left: 1ex;">Sorry, but this is very naive thinking=
. I am working part time for a big parts supplier here in Europe.<br /> Mos=
t parts are ordered from China. You get a sample, you order a batch of 100,=
 500 or 1000 pieces. Perhaps you get 5% customer complains, which is normal=
, when the batch is slightly faulty you may get 10% customer complains. Whe=
n its more you will have to think about the issue. When there are no compla=
ins, parts are not sent back, all is fine, even parts are faulty and custom=
ers fix on their oown. Often thee are no complains, even the part is faulty=
, but its cheaper than the similar part from the competitor.<br /> To put i=
n a quality control in the system would raise the net purchase price to a d=
ouble or tripple. Customers move to the competitor, as you can`t sell it to=
 the prize your competitor does. You may not believe the low purchase prize=
 of these parts from China, but you need to buy batches of at least 100 par=
ts. So when they are faulty you need to sell most of them before you look f=
or a different supplier. You can`t send these parts back, as delivery costs=
 are higher than the parts value and Chinese suppliers are not very custome=
r friendly.<br /> <br /> Josef Eckert<br /> Konigswinter/Germany<br /> <br =
/> </blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
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