Subject: [Healeys] water pumps and other repro parts

From: "[email-masked]" <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 01 Mar 2015 16:11:30 +0100

Sorry, but this is very naive thinking. I am working part time for a big parts supplier here in Europe.
Most parts are ordered from China. You get a sample, you order a batch of 100, 500 or 1000 pieces. Perhaps you get 5% customer complains, which is normal, when the batch is slightly faulty you may get 10% customer complains. When its more you will have to think about the issue. When there are no complains, parts are not sent back, all is fine, even parts are faulty and customers fix on their oown. Often thee are no complains, even the part is faulty, but its cheaper than the similar part from the competitor. 
To put in a quality control in the system would raise the net purchase price to a double or tripple. Customers move to the competitor, as you can`t sell it to the prize your competitor does. You may not believe the low purchase prize of these parts from China, but you need to buy batches of at least 100 parts. So when they are faulty you need to sell most of them before you look for a different supplier. You can`t send these parts back, as delivery costs are higher than the parts value and Chinese suppliers are not very customer friendly.

Josef Eckert
Konigswinter/Germany

-----Original-Nachricht-----
Betreff: Re: [Healeys] water pumps and other repro parts
Datum: Sun, 01 Mar 2015 15:37:05 +0100
Von: "John Davidson" <[email-masked]>
An: "'Magnus Karlsson'" <[email-masked]>, "'Andy'" <[email-masked]>

I agree that such a listing would be a very valuable tool both for the owner
and the restorer to implicitly apply pressure to the industry. This
potentially will be seen by some in the industry as an opportunity to
justify higher pricing to eliminate the poor quality problems. The list
should be written in the positive as this will reduce the potential for any
legal actions as the list only contains those who have provided the proper
part as close to original as technology improvements allow. This list would
need to be "live" as there are suppliers who will genuinely not know that
their suppliers/manufacturers have not met the "standard of acceptance" but
who would respond properly to being notified of the problem.

John R Davidson, BN2, AN5
H (204) 895-4523, C (204) 295-9207

_______________________________________________
Archive: http://www.team.net/archive

[email-masked]
http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/healeys

---

From: Bob Spidell <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 1 Mar 2015 15:29:12 +0000 (UTC)

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Side note/story: A member of a flying club I was in--name of Tom, who happened to be German--was a process/QA engineer (last I heard he was overseeing production for Apple in China). He told a story: 

Take, for instance, a glass container to a Japanese company. They will measure, study and analyze the sample and return with a prototype that is superior in every way to the sample, but likely exceeding your maximum unit price point. 

Take the same sample to a Chinese company and they will produce a prototype that is inferior in every way to the sample, with a hole in the bottom. Tom said he would point out the hole in the container--whose purpose was to contain fluids--and the Chinese would say "But it's only 3 cents per unit." 

Tom: "IT HAS A HOLE IN THE BOTTOM!!!" 

Chinese: "IT'S ONLY 3 CENTS!!!" 

----- Original Message -----

From: [email-masked] 
To: "John Davidson" <[email-masked]>, "Forum Healeys" <[email-masked]> 
Sent: Sunday, March 1, 2015 7:11:30 AM 
Subject: [Healeys] water pumps and other repro parts 

Josef Eckert 
Konigswinter/Germany 

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<html><body><div style=3D"font-family: Arial; font-size: 12pt; color: #0000=
00"><div>Side note/story: A member of a flying club I was in--name of Tom, =
who happened to be German--was a process/QA engineer (last I heard he was o=
verseeing production for Apple in China).&nbsp; He told a story:<br></div><=
div><br></div><div>Take, for instance, a glass container to a Japanese comp=
any.&nbsp; They will measure, study and analyze the sample and return with =
a prototype that is superior in every way to the sample, but likely exceedi=
ng your maximum unit price point.<br></div><div><br></div><div>Take the sam=
e sample to a Chinese company and they will produce a prototype that is inf=
erior in every way to the sample, with a hole in the bottom.&nbsp; Tom said=
 he would point out the hole in the container--whose purpose was to contain=
 fluids--and the Chinese would say "But it's only 3 cents per unit."<br></d=
iv><div><br></div><div>Tom: "IT HAS A HOLE IN THE BOTTOM!!!"<br></div><div>=
<br></div><div>Chinese: "IT'S ONLY 3 CENTS!!!"<br></div><div><br></div><div=
><br></div><div><br></div><hr id=3D"zwchr"><div style=3D"color:#000;font-we=
ight:normal;font-style:normal;text-decoration:none;font-family:Helvetica,Ar=
ial,sans-serif;font-size:12pt;"><b>From: </b>[email-masked]<br><b=
>To: </b>"John Davidson" &lt;[email-masked]&gt;, "Forum Healeys" &lt;Heal=
[email-masked]&gt;<br><b>Sent: </b>Sunday, March 1, 2015 7:11:30 AM<br>=
<b>Subject: </b>[Healeys] water pumps and other repro parts<br><div><br></d=
iv>Sorry, but this is very naive thinking. I am working part time for a big=
 parts supplier here in Europe.<br>Most parts are ordered from China. You g=
et a sample, you order a batch of 100, 500 or 1000 pieces. Perhaps you get =
5% customer complains, which is normal, when the batch is slightly faulty y=
ou may get 10% customer complains. When its more you will have to think abo=
ut the issue. When there are no complains, parts are not sent back, all is =
fine, even parts are faulty and customers fix on their oown. Often thee are=
 no complains, even the part is faulty, but its cheaper than the similar pa=
rt from the competitor. <br>To put in a quality control in the system would=
 raise the net purchase price to a double or tripple. Customers move to the=
 competitor, as you can`t sell it to the prize your competitor does. You ma=
y not believe the low purchase prize of these parts from China, but you nee=
d to buy batches of at least 100 parts. So when they are faulty you need to=
 sell most of them before you look for a different supplier. You can`t send=
 these parts back, as delivery costs are higher than the parts value and Ch=
inese suppliers are not very customer friendly.<br><div><br></div>Josef Eck=
ert<br>Konigswinter/Germany<br><div><br></div><br style=3D"color:#000;font-=
weight:normal;font-style:normal;text-decoration:none;font-family:Helvetica,=
Arial,sans-serif;font-size:12pt;"></div></div></body></html>
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[email-masked]

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From: "Andy" <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 1 Mar 2015 17:27:15 -0000

Josef,

Whilst I understand your argument re cost v's quality, I strongly disagree
that it is naive to expect better.  Having spent most of my career in the
Pharma Industry, producing a quality product is paramount - the impact of
getting it wrong is quite serious! The cost argument is a red-herring.  In
my industry, look at the Generic manufacturers who outsource globally, yet
still need to demonstrate quality, efficacy, safety and supply their product
at a competitive price.  I strongly believe that it is a mindset /
fundamental business issue.  What is worse, would be to keep on selling a
product that you know is faulty.  

In my opinion the only reason that this happens to the extent that it does,
is that suppliers believe that they have a captive market and rely on the
fact that most customers are unaware at the outset that they are buying a
compromised product at times ... and when they do realise they are more
likely to try to fix the situation themselves, and so the saga continues.

Andy

-----Original Message-----
From: Healeys [mailto:[email-masked]] On Behalf Of
[email-masked]
Sent: 01 March 2015 15:12
To: John Davidson; Healeys, Forum
Subject: [Healeys] water pumps and other repro parts

Sorry, but this is very naive thinking. I am working part time for a big
parts supplier here in Europe.
Most parts are ordered from China. You get a sample, you order a batch of
100, 500 or 1000 pieces. Perhaps you get 5% customer complains, which is
normal, when the batch is slightly faulty you may get 10% customer
complains. When its more you will have to think about the issue. When there
are no complains, parts are not sent back, all is fine, even parts are
faulty and customers fix on their oown. Often thee are no complains, even
the part is faulty, but its cheaper than the similar part from the
competitor. 
To put in a quality control in the system would raise the net purchase price
to a double or tripple. Customers move to the competitor, as you can`t sell
it to the prize your competitor does. You may not believe the low purchase
prize of these parts from China, but you need to buy batches of at least 100
parts. So when they are faulty you need to sell most of them before you look
for a different supplier. You can`t send these parts back, as delivery costs
are higher than the parts value and Chinese suppliers are not very customer
friendly.

Josef Eckert
Konigswinter/Germany

-----Original-Nachricht-----
Betreff: Re: [Healeys] water pumps and other repro parts
Datum: Sun, 01 Mar 2015 15:37:05 +0100
Von: "John Davidson" <[email-masked]>
An: "'Magnus Karlsson'" <[email-masked]>, "'Andy'"
<[email-masked]>

$12.75

[email-masked]

http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/healeys/[email-masked]

-----
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2015.0.5645 / Virus Database: 4299/9203 - Release Date: 03/01/15

[email-masked]

---

From: "Jerry Costanzo" <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 1 Mar 2015 10:17:18 -0800

I also was in the pharma industry and the FDA now has more manufacturers 
outside the US than inside.  Is the quality control there?  I doubt it 
because the inspections are infrequent.  Same in the auto parts world.  I 
happened to get the China manufacturing plants dumped on me during my career 
and found that there are multiple problems working with the issues.  #1, the 
government of China said they owned 10% of our companies there and assumed a 
management role.  They had a person on site who made sure the 10% went to 
the government.  If we rejected a lot of product, he sent a message and said 
that we would not get any more till that lot was paid for.  One of our 
directors was Chinese and he said you had to understand the culture. 
Everyone gets their 10%.  If you don't let them, they will cut the quality 
to get their 10%.  We also had some plastic injection molding done there. 
Much cheaper but the quality control was lax.  I eventually worked with an 
engineering firm in Chicago that redesigned new molds to make more parts at 
a time, therefore making the parts cheaper than China.  They went out a 
bought two injection molding machines for our products, starting producing, 
warehousing, and shipping for our 163 locations.  All at cheaper price.  As 
said by others, cheaper is not always better but if your work at it, you can 
get better and cheaper.
By the way, our company was bought by a fortune 500 company and we 
immediately sold off everything in China.
China has the opportunity to be the next Japan.  They too started with poor 
products but cleaned up the act.  I really think every country has a place 
that will produce less than quality products.  You have to set up the system 
to weed out the crap.

Jerry 

[email-masked]

---

From: Michael Salter <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2015 12:12:12 +1300

--===============5683896570505934846==

--001a113497704cda650510423b77

Hi Josef,
In your post you said
* "Most parts are ordered from China. You get a sample, you order a batch
of 100, 500 or 1000 pieces."*
I really believe that the fault lies largely with the company ordering the
parts.
If a sample is supplied it behooves the purchaser to thoroughly inspect and
test the sample. The BJ8 water pumps are a classic example. Anyone with
just a little experience in the rebuilding of water pumps could easily have
disassembled such a sample and determined that the internal parts were not
the same as the original pump and were just not up to the job.
As an individual I have managed to source the original seal and bearing
from reputable suppliers.
Using those parts it would have been a lot easier to have the castings made
to the original specifications and an exact replica pump then produced.
The pumps that BMC produced were developed over many years and to casually
discard all that experience and think that one can easily design an
externally similar pump using adapted modern parts that will be reliable,
without extensive testing, is total folly.
On another note Bob is absolutely correct in that owners will opt for
reproduction parts over restored originals every time in the mistaken
belief that "new is better". Unfortunately the "disposable society" has
conditioned the most people to believe that new is always better!!
>From hard learned experience I will ALWAYS opt for a good restorable
original component over a new replacement every time even if it costs a lot
more.
Flame away!!!

Michael S
BN1 #174

On Mon, Mar 2, 2015 at 4:11 AM, [email-masked] <
[email-masked]> wrote:

> To put in a quality control in the system would raise the net purchase
> price to a double or tripple. Customers move to the competitor, as you
> can`t sell it to the prize your competitor does. You may not believe the
> low purchase prize of these parts from China, but you need to buy batches
> of at least 100 parts. So when they are faulty you need to sell most of
> them before you look for a different supplier. You can`t send these parts
> back, as delivery costs are higher than the parts value and Chinese
> suppliers are not very customer friendly.
>
> Josef Eckert
> Konigswinter/Germany
>
>
> Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $12.75
> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
>
> [email-masked]
> Unsubscribe/Manage:
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/healeys/[email-masked]
>
>

-- 
*If you can't fix it with a hammer, you've got an electrical problem.*

--001a113497704cda650510423b77
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:comic sa=
ns ms,sans-serif;font-size:small">Hi Josef,<br></div><div class=3D"gmail_de=
fault" style=3D"font-family:comic sans ms,sans-serif;font-size:small">In yo=
ur post you said<i> &quot;Most parts are ordered from China. You get a samp=
le, you order a batch of 100, 500 or 1000 pieces.&quot;<br></i></div><div c=
lass=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:comic sans ms,sans-serif;font-s=
ize:small">I really believe that the fault lies largely with the company or=
dering the parts. <br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-fami=
ly:comic sans ms,sans-serif;font-size:small">If a sample is supplied it beh=
ooves the purchaser to thoroughly inspect and test the sample. The BJ8 wate=
r pumps are a classic example. Anyone with just a little experience in the =
rebuilding of water pumps could easily have disassembled such a sample and =
determined that the internal parts were not the same as the original pump a=
nd were just not up to the job. <br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" styl=
e=3D"font-family:comic sans ms,sans-serif;font-size:small">As an individual=
 I have managed to source the original seal and bearing from reputable supp=
liers. <br>Using those parts it would have been a lot easier to have the ca=
stings made to the original specifications and an exact replica pump then p=
roduced. <br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:comic =
sans ms,sans-serif;font-size:small">The pumps that BMC produced were develo=
ped over many years and to casually discard all that experience and think t=
hat one can easily design an externally similar pump using adapted modern p=
arts that will be reliable, without extensive testing, is total folly. <br>=
</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:comic sans ms,sans-=
serif;font-size:small">On another note Bob is absolutely correct in that ow=
ners will opt for reproduction parts over restored originals every time in =
the mistaken belief that &quot;new is better&quot;. Unfortunately the &quot=
;disposable society&quot; has conditioned the most people to believe that n=
ew is always better!!<br>From hard learned experience I will ALWAYS opt for=
 a good restorable original component over a new replacement every time eve=
n if it costs a lot more. <br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"f=
ont-family:comic sans ms,sans-serif;font-size:small">Flame away!!!<br><br><=
/div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:comic sans ms,sans-s=
erif;font-size:small">Michael S<br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=
=3D"font-family:comic sans ms,sans-serif;font-size:small">BN1 #174<br></div=
></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Mon, Ma=
r 2, 2015 at 4:11 AM, <a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">josef-eck=
[email-masked]</a> <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:josef-eckert@t-=
online.de" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt;</span> wrote:=
<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-lef=
t:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">Sorry, but this is very naive thinking. =
I am working part time for a big parts supplier here in Europe.<br>
Most parts are ordered from China. You get a sample, you order a batch of 1=
00, 500 or 1000 pieces. Perhaps you get 5% customer complains, which is nor=
mal, when the batch is slightly faulty you may get 10% customer complains. =
When its more you will have to think about the issue. When there are no com=
plains, parts are not sent back, all is fine, even parts are faulty and cus=
tomers fix on their oown. Often thee are no complains, even the part is fau=
lty, but its cheaper than the similar part from the competitor.<br>
To put in a quality control in the system would raise the net purchase pric=
e to a double or tripple. Customers move to the competitor, as you can`t se=
ll it to the prize your competitor does. You may not believe the low purcha=
se prize of these parts from China, but you need to buy batches of at least=
 100 parts. So when they are faulty you need to sell most of them before yo=
u look for a different supplier. You can`t send these parts back, as delive=
ry costs are higher than the parts value and Chinese suppliers are not very=
 customer friendly.<br>
<br>
Josef Eckert<br>
Konigswinter/Germany<br>
<br>
<br>
-----Original-Nachricht-----<br>
Betreff: Re: [Healeys] water pumps and other repro parts<br>
Datum: Sun, 01 Mar 2015 15:37:05 +0100<br>
Von: &quot;John Davidson&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">jdav=
[email-masked]</a>&gt;<br>
An: &quot;&#39;Magnus Karlsson&#39;&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:magnuskarls=
[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>&gt;, &quot;&#39;Andy&#39;&quo=
t; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>&gt;<br>
<span class=3D"im HOEnZb"><br>
I agree that such a listing would be a very valuable tool both for the owne=
r<br>
and the restorer to implicitly apply pressure to the industry. This<br>
potentially will be seen by some in the industry as an opportunity to<br>
justify higher pricing to eliminate the poor quality problems. The list<br>
should be written in the positive as this will reduce the potential for any=
<br>
legal actions as the list only contains those who have provided the proper<=
br>
part as close to original as technology improvements allow. This list would=
<br>
need to be &quot;live&quot; as there are suppliers who will genuinely not k=
now that<br>
their suppliers/manufacturers have not met the &quot;standard of acceptance=
&quot; but<br>
who would respond properly to being notified of the problem.<br>
<br>
John R Davidson, BN2, AN5<br>
H <a href=3D"tel:%28204%29%20895-4523" value=3D"+12048954523">(204) 895-452=
3</a>, C <a href=3D"tel:%28204%29%20295-9207" value=3D"+12042959207">(204) =
295-9207</a><br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
</span><div class=3D"HOEnZb"><div class=3D"h5">____________________________=
___________________<br>
nk">http://www.team.net/donate.html</a><br>
Archive: <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/archive" target=3D"_blank">http://w=
ww.team.net/archive</a><br>
Forums: <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/forums" target=3D"_blank">http://www=
.team.net/forums</a><br>
<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a><br>
<a href=3D"http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/healeys" target=3D"_blank=
">http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/healeys</a><br>
<br>
s/[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">http://autox.team.net/mailman/=
options/healeys/[email-masked]</a><br>
<br>
</div></div></blockquote></div><br><br clear=3D"all"><br>-- <br><div class=
=3D"gmail_signature"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div><div dir=3D"ltr"><i><font><span =
style=3D"color:black">If you can&#39;t fix it with a hammer, you&#39;ve got=
 an electrical problem.</span></font></i><br><br><div></div><div></div><div=
></div></div></div></div></div>
</div>

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[email-masked]

--===============5683896570505934846==--

---

From: "John Davidson" <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 1 Mar 2015 17:30:33 -0600

This is a multipart message in MIME format.

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Content-language: en-ca

This is a multipart message in MIME format.

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	charset="utf-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Mike, I am in complete agreement with your philosophy! Why would you =
dispose of a perfectly good carcass when it is easily rebuildable to as =
good as new or better; because this disposable society doesn=E2=80=99t =
make repair parts/components opting instead for new replacements in the =
mistaken belief that it is faster and easier to replace than repair!!!!

=20

John R, BN2, AN5

=20

From: [email-masked] [mailto:[email-masked]] On =
Behalf Of Michael Salter
Sent: March-01-15 5:12 PM
To: [email-masked]
Cc: John Davidson; Healeys, Forum
Subject: Re: [Healeys] water pumps and other repro parts

=20

Hi Josef,

In your post you said "Most parts are ordered from China. You get a =
sample, you order a batch of 100, 500 or 1000 pieces."

I really believe that the fault lies largely with the company ordering =
the parts.=20

If a sample is supplied it behooves the purchaser to thoroughly inspect =
and test the sample. The BJ8 water pumps are a classic example. Anyone =
with just a little experience in the rebuilding of water pumps could =
easily have disassembled such a sample and determined that the internal =
parts were not the same as the original pump and were just not up to the =
job.=20

As an individual I have managed to source the original seal and bearing =
from reputable suppliers.=20
Using those parts it would have been a lot easier to have the castings =
made to the original specifications and an exact replica pump then =
produced.=20

The pumps that BMC produced were developed over many years and to =
casually discard all that experience and think that one can easily =
design an externally similar pump using adapted modern parts that will =
be reliable, without extensive testing, is total folly.=20

On another note Bob is absolutely correct in that owners will opt for =
reproduction parts over restored originals every time in the mistaken =
belief that "new is better". Unfortunately the "disposable society" has =
conditioned the most people to believe that new is always better!!
>From hard learned experience I will ALWAYS opt for a good restorable =
original component over a new replacement every time even if it costs a =
lot more.=20

Flame away!!!

Michael S

BN1 #174

=20

On Mon, Mar 2, 2015 at 4:11 AM, [email-masked] =

Sorry, but this is very naive thinking. I am working part time for a big =
parts supplier here in Europe.
Most parts are ordered from China. You get a sample, you order a batch =
of 100, 500 or 1000 pieces. Perhaps you get 5% customer complains, which =
is normal, when the batch is slightly faulty you may get 10% customer =
complains. When its more you will have to think about the issue. When =
there are no complains, parts are not sent back, all is fine, even parts =
are faulty and customers fix on their oown. Often thee are no complains, =
even the part is faulty, but its cheaper than the similar part from the =
competitor.
To put in a quality control in the system would raise the net purchase =
price to a double or tripple. Customers move to the competitor, as you =
can`t sell it to the prize your competitor does. You may not believe the =
low purchase prize of these parts from China, but you need to buy =
batches of at least 100 parts. So when they are faulty you need to sell =
most of them before you look for a different supplier. You can`t send =
these parts back, as delivery costs are higher than the parts value and =
Chinese suppliers are not very customer friendly.

Josef Eckert
Konigswinter/Germany

-----Original-Nachricht-----
Betreff: Re: [Healeys] water pumps and other repro parts
Datum: Sun, 01 Mar 2015 15:37:05 +0100
An: "'Magnus Karlsson'" <[email-masked] =

I agree that such a listing would be a very valuable tool both for the =
owner
and the restorer to implicitly apply pressure to the industry. This
potentially will be seen by some in the industry as an opportunity to
justify higher pricing to eliminate the poor quality problems. The list
should be written in the positive as this will reduce the potential for =
any
legal actions as the list only contains those who have provided the =
proper
part as close to original as technology improvements allow. This list =
would
need to be "live" as there are suppliers who will genuinely not know =
that
their suppliers/manufacturers have not met the "standard of acceptance" =
but
who would respond properly to being notified of the problem.

John R Davidson, BN2, AN5
H (204) 895-4523 <tel:%28204%29%20895-4523> , C (204) 295-9207 =
<tel:%28204%29%20295-9207>=20

--=20

If you can't fix it with a hammer, you've got an electrical problem.

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--></style></head><body lang=3DEN-CA link=3Dblue vlink=3Dpurple><div =
class=3DWordSection1><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;=
mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>Mike, I am in complete agreement with your =
philosophy! Why would you dispose of a perfectly good carcass when it is =
easily rebuildable to as good as new or better; because this disposable =
society doesn=E2=80=99t make repair parts/components opting instead for =
new replacements in the mistaken belief that it is faster and easier to =
replace than repair!!!!<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;=
mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'=
>John R, BN2, AN5<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;=
mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><b><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>From:</span><=
/b><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'> =
[email-masked] [mailto:[email-masked]] <b>On Behalf =
Of </b>Michael Salter<br><b>Sent:</b> March-01-15 5:12 PM<br><b>To:</b> =
[email-masked]<br><b>Cc:</b> John Davidson; Healeys, =
Forum<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Healeys] water pumps and other repro =
parts<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-family:"Comic Sans MS"'>Hi =
Josef,<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Comic Sans MS"'>In your post you said<i> =
&quot;Most parts are ordered from China. You get a sample, you order a =
batch of 100, 500 or 1000 =
pieces.&quot;</i><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-family:"Comic Sans MS"'>I really =
believe that the fault lies largely with the company ordering the parts. =
<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Comic Sans MS"'>If a sample is supplied it =
behooves the purchaser to thoroughly inspect and test the sample. The =
BJ8 water pumps are a classic example. Anyone with just a little =
experience in the rebuilding of water pumps could easily have =
disassembled such a sample and determined that the internal parts were =
not the same as the original pump and were just not up to the job. =
<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Comic Sans MS"'>As an individual I have managed to =
source the original seal and bearing from reputable suppliers. <br>Using =
those parts it would have been a lot easier to have the castings made to =
the original specifications and an exact replica pump then produced. =
<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Comic Sans MS"'>The pumps that BMC produced were =
developed over many years and to casually discard all that experience =
and think that one can easily design an externally similar pump using =
adapted modern parts that will be reliable, without extensive testing, =
is total folly. <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-family:"Comic Sans MS"'>On another =
note Bob is absolutely correct in that owners will opt for reproduction =
parts over restored originals every time in the mistaken belief that =
&quot;new is better&quot;. Unfortunately the &quot;disposable =
society&quot; has conditioned the most people to believe that new is =
always better!!<br>From hard learned experience I will ALWAYS opt for a =
good restorable original component over a new replacement every time =
even if it costs a lot more. <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Comic Sans MS"'>Flame =
away!!!<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Comic Sans MS"'>Michael =
S<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Comic Sans MS"'>BN1 =
#174<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><div><p class=3DMsoNormal>On Mon, =
Mar 2, 2015 at 4:11 AM, <a =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a> =
&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" =
target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt; =
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p><blockquote style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid =
#CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm'><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'>Sorry, but this is very naive thinking. I =
am working part time for a big parts supplier here in Europe.<br>Most =
parts are ordered from China. You get a sample, you order a batch of =
100, 500 or 1000 pieces. Perhaps you get 5% customer complains, which is =
normal, when the batch is slightly faulty you may get 10% customer =
complains. When its more you will have to think about the issue. When =
there are no complains, parts are not sent back, all is fine, even parts =
are faulty and customers fix on their oown. Often thee are no complains, =
even the part is faulty, but its cheaper than the similar part from the =
competitor.<br>To put in a quality control in the system would raise the =
net purchase price to a double or tripple. Customers move to the =
competitor, as you can`t sell it to the prize your competitor does. You =
may not believe the low purchase prize of these parts from China, but =
you need to buy batches of at least 100 parts. So when they are faulty =
you need to sell most of them before you look for a different supplier. =
You can`t send these parts back, as delivery costs are higher than the =
parts value and Chinese suppliers are not very customer =
friendly.<br><br>Josef =
Eckert<br>Konigswinter/Germany<br><br><br>-----Original-Nachricht-----<br=
>Betreff: Re: [Healeys] water pumps and other repro parts<br>Datum: Sun, =
01 Mar 2015 15:37:05 +0100<br>Von: &quot;John Davidson&quot; &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>&gt;<br>An: =
&quot;'Magnus Karlsson'&quot; &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>&g=
t;, &quot;'Andy'&quot; &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>&gt;<br><br><spa=
n class=3Dim>I agree that such a listing would be a very valuable tool =
both for the owner</span><br><span class=3Dim>and the restorer to =
implicitly apply pressure to the industry. This</span><br><span =
class=3Dim>potentially will be seen by some in the industry as an =
opportunity to</span><br><span class=3Dim>justify higher pricing to =
eliminate the poor quality problems. The list</span><br><span =
class=3Dim>should be written in the positive as this will reduce the =
potential for any</span><br><span class=3Dim>legal actions as the list =
only contains those who have provided the proper</span><br><span =
class=3Dim>part as close to original as technology improvements allow. =
This list would</span><br><span class=3Dim>need to be &quot;live&quot; =
as there are suppliers who will genuinely not know that</span><br><span =
class=3Dim>their suppliers/manufacturers have not met the &quot;standard =
of acceptance&quot; but</span><br><span class=3Dim>who would respond =
properly to being notified of the problem.</span><br><br><span =
class=3Dim>John R Davidson, BN2, AN5</span><br><span class=3Dim>H <a =
href=3D"tel:%28204%29%20895-4523">(204) 895-4523</a>, C <a =
href=3D"tel:%28204%29%20295-9207">(204) =
295-9207</a></span><br><br><br><br><o:p></o:p></p><div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'>__________________________________________=
_____<br>Support Team.Net <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/donate.html" =
target=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/donate.html</a><br>Suggested =
annual donation&nbsp; $12.75<br>Archive: <a =
href=3D"http://www.team.net/archive" =
target=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/archive</a><br>Forums: <a =
href=3D"http://www.team.net/forums" =
target=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/forums</a><br><br><a =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a><br><a =
href=3D"http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/healeys" =
target=3D"_blank">http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/healeys</a><br><=
br>Unsubscribe/Manage: <a =
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.com" =
target=3D"_blank">http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/healeys/michaelsa=
[email-masked]</a><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></blockquote></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><br><br clear=3Dall><br>-- =
<o:p></o:p></p><div><div><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><i><span style=3D'color:black'>If you =
can't fix it with a hammer, you've got an electrical =
problem.</span></i><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></div></div></div></b=
ody></html>
------=_NextPart_000_0053_01D05445.6EC7D150--

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[email-masked]

--===============4583701610798712536==--

---

From: Linwood Rose <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 01 Mar 2015 18:36:59 -0500

--===============2412513333929023497==
 boundary=Apple-Mail-E2667A01-0D6A-4B10-8F00-08D8CB51DB4C
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit

--Apple-Mail-E2667A01-0D6A-4B10-8F00-08D8CB51DB4C
	charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Michael,=20
My experience is limited to two Healeys and one Jaguar, but I could not agre=
e more with your conclusion.
Lin Rose

Sent from my iPhone

> On Mar 1, 2015, at 6:12 PM, Michael Salter <[email-masked]> wrote=
:
>=20
> Hi Josef,
> In your post you said "Most parts are ordered from China. You get a sample=
, you order a batch of 100, 500 or 1000 pieces."
> I really believe that the fault lies largely with the company ordering the=
 parts.=20
> If a sample is supplied it behooves the purchaser to thoroughly inspect an=
d test the sample. The BJ8 water pumps are a classic example. Anyone with ju=
st a little experience in the rebuilding of water pumps could easily have di=
sassembled such a sample and determined that the internal parts were not the=
 same as the original pump and were just not up to the job.=20
> As an individual I have managed to source the original seal and bearing fr=
om reputable suppliers.=20
> Using those parts it would have been a lot easier to have the castings mad=
e to the original specifications and an exact replica pump then produced.=20=

> The pumps that BMC produced were developed over many years and to casually=
 discard all that experience and think that one can easily design an externa=
lly similar pump using adapted modern parts that will be reliable, without e=
xtensive testing, is total folly.=20
> On another note Bob is absolutely correct in that owners will opt for repr=
oduction parts over restored originals every time in the mistaken belief tha=
t "new is better". Unfortunately the "disposable society" has conditioned th=
e most people to believe that new is always better!!
> =46rom hard learned experience I will ALWAYS opt for a good restorable ori=
ginal component over a new replacement every time even if it costs a lot mor=
e.=20
> Flame away!!!
>=20
> Michael S
> BN1 #174
>=20
>> On Mon, Mar 2, 2015 at 4:11 AM, [email-masked] <josef-eckert@t-=
online.de> wrote:
>> Sorry, but this is very naive thinking. I am working part time for a big p=
arts supplier here in Europe.
>> Most parts are ordered from China. You get a sample, you order a batch of=
 100, 500 or 1000 pieces. Perhaps you get 5% customer complains, which is no=
rmal, when the batch is slightly faulty you may get 10% customer complains. W=
hen its more you will have to think about the issue. When there are no compl=
ains, parts are not sent back, all is fine, even parts are faulty and custom=
ers fix on their oown. Often thee are no complains, even the part is faulty,=
 but its cheaper than the similar part from the competitor.
>> To put in a quality control in the system would raise the net purchase pr=
ice to a double or tripple. Customers move to the competitor, as you can`t s=
ell it to the prize your competitor does. You may not believe the low purcha=
se prize of these parts from China, but you need to buy batches of at least 1=
00 parts. So when they are faulty you need to sell most of them before you l=
ook for a different supplier. You can`t send these parts back, as delivery c=
osts are higher than the parts value and Chinese suppliers are not very cust=
omer friendly.
>> An: "'Magnus Karlsson'" <[email-masked]>, "'Andy'" <sneddon@xs=
mail.com>
>>=20
>> I agree that such a listing would be a very valuable tool both for the ow=
ner
>> should be written in the positive as this will reduce the potential for a=
ny
>> legal actions as the list only contains those who have provided the prope=
r
>> part as close to original as technology improvements allow. This list wou=
ld
>> need to be "live" as there are suppliers who will genuinely not know that=

>> their suppliers/manufacturers have not met the "standard of acceptance" b=
ut
>> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/healeys/michael=
[email-masked]
> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/healeys/linwoodr=
[email-masked]

--Apple-Mail-E2667A01-0D6A-4B10-8F00-08D8CB51DB4C
	charset=utf-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"content-type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3D=
utf-8"></head><body dir=3D"auto"><div>Michael,&nbsp;</div><div>My experience=
 is limited to two Healeys and one Jaguar, but I could not agree more with y=
our conclusion.</div><div>Lin Rose<br><br>Sent from my iPhone</div><div><br>=
On Mar 1, 2015, at 6:12 PM, Michael Salter &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:michaelsalt=
[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:<br><br></div><blockquot=
e type=3D"cite"><div><div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"=
font-family:comic sans ms,sans-serif;font-size:small">Hi Josef,<br></div><di=
v class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:comic sans ms,sans-serif;font=
-size:small">In your post you said<i> "Most parts are ordered from China. Yo=
u get a sample, you order a batch of 100, 500 or 1000 pieces."<br></i></div>=
<div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:comic sans ms,sans-serif;f=
ont-size:small">I really believe that the fault lies largely with the compan=
y ordering the parts. <br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-f=
amily:comic sans ms,sans-serif;font-size:small">If a sample is supplied it b=
ehooves the purchaser to thoroughly inspect and test the sample. The BJ8 wat=
er pumps are a classic example. Anyone with just a little experience in the r=
ebuilding of water pumps could easily have disassembled such a sample and de=
termined that the internal parts were not the same as the original pump and w=
ere just not up to the job. <br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"=
font-family:comic sans ms,sans-serif;font-size:small">As an individual I hav=
e managed to source the original seal and bearing from reputable suppliers. <=
br>Using those parts it would have been a lot easier to have the castings ma=
de to the original specifications and an exact replica pump then produced. <=
br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:comic sans ms,san=
s-serif;font-size:small">The pumps that BMC produced were developed over man=
y years and to casually discard all that experience and think that one can e=
asily design an externally similar pump using adapted modern parts that will=
 be reliable, without extensive testing, is total folly. <br></div><div clas=
s=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:comic sans ms,sans-serif;font-size:=
small">On another note Bob is absolutely correct in that owners will opt for=
 reproduction parts over restored originals every time in the mistaken belie=
f that "new is better". Unfortunately the "disposable society" has condition=
ed the most people to believe that new is always better!!<br>=46rom hard lea=
rned experience I will ALWAYS opt for a good restorable original component o=
ver a new replacement every time even if it costs a lot more. <br></div><div=
 class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:comic sans ms,sans-serif;font-=
size:small">Flame away!!!<br><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D=
"font-family:comic sans ms,sans-serif;font-size:small">Michael S<br></div><d=
iv class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:comic sans ms,sans-serif;fon=
t-size:small">BN1 #174<br></div></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div cl=
ass=3D"gmail_quote">On Mon, Mar 2, 2015 at 4:11 AM, <a href=3D"mailto:josef-=
[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a> <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a hr=
ef=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">josef-eckert@t-onli=
ne.de</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"ma=
rgin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">Sorry, but this=
 is very naive thinking. I am working part time for a big parts supplier her=
e in Europe.<br>
Most parts are ordered from China. You get a sample, you order a batch of 10=
0, 500 or 1000 pieces. Perhaps you get 5% customer complains, which is norma=
l, when the batch is slightly faulty you may get 10% customer complains. Whe=
n its more you will have to think about the issue. When there are no complai=
ns, parts are not sent back, all is fine, even parts are faulty and customer=
s fix on their oown. Often thee are no complains, even the part is faulty, b=
ut its cheaper than the similar part from the competitor.<br>
To put in a quality control in the system would raise the net purchase price=
 to a double or tripple. Customers move to the competitor, as you can`t sell=
 it to the prize your competitor does. You may not believe the low purchase p=
rize of these parts from China, but you need to buy batches of at least 100 p=
arts. So when they are faulty you need to sell most of them before you look f=
or a different supplier. You can`t send these parts back, as delivery costs a=
re higher than the parts value and Chinese suppliers are not very customer f=
riendly.<br>
<br>
Josef Eckert<br>
Konigswinter/Germany<br>
<br>
<br>
-----Original-Nachricht-----<br>
Betreff: Re: [Healeys] water pumps and other repro parts<br>
Datum: Sun, 01 Mar 2015 15:37:05 +0100<br>
Von: "John Davidson" &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]=
a</a>&gt;<br>
An: "'Magnus Karlsson'" &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">mag=
[email-masked]</a>&gt;, "'Andy'" &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:sneddon@xsmai=
l.com">[email-masked]</a>&gt;<br>
<span class=3D"im HOEnZb"><br>
I agree that such a listing would be a very valuable tool both for the owner=
<br>
and the restorer to implicitly apply pressure to the industry. This<br>
potentially will be seen by some in the industry as an opportunity to<br>
justify higher pricing to eliminate the poor quality problems. The list<br>
should be written in the positive as this will reduce the potential for any<=
br>
legal actions as the list only contains those who have provided the proper<b=
r>
part as close to original as technology improvements allow. This list would<=
br>
need to be "live" as there are suppliers who will genuinely not know that<br=
their suppliers/manufacturers have not met the "standard of acceptance" but<=
br>
who would respond properly to being notified of the problem.<br>
<br>
John R Davidson, BN2, AN5<br>
H <a href=3D"tel:%28204%29%20895-4523" value=3D"+12048954523">(204) 895-4523=
</a>, C <a href=3D"tel:%28204%29%20295-9207" value=3D"+12042959207">(204) 29=
5-9207</a><br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
</span><div class=3D"HOEnZb"><div class=3D"h5">_____________________________=
__________________<br>
Support <a href=3D"http://Team.Net">Team.Net</a> <a href=3D"http://www.team.=
net/donate.html" target=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/donate.html</a><br>
Archive: <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/archive" target=3D"_blank">http://ww=
w.team.net/archive</a><br>
Forums: <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/forums" target=3D"_blank">http://www.=
team.net/forums</a><br>
<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a><br>
<a href=3D"http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/healeys" target=3D"_blank"=
>http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/healeys</a><br>
<br>
/[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">http://autox.team.net/mailman/op=
tions/healeys/[email-masked]</a><br>
<br>
</div></div></blockquote></div><br><br clear=3D"all"><br>-- <br><div class=3D=
"gmail_signature"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div><div dir=3D"ltr"><i><font><span styl=
e=3D"color:black">If you can't fix it with a hammer, you've got an electrica=
l problem.</span></font></i><br><br><div></div><div></div><div></div></div><=
/div></div></div>
</div>
</div></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div><span>____________________=
___________________________</span><br><span>Support <a href=3D"http://Team.N=
et">Team.Net</a> <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/donate.html">http://www.team=
.net/donate.html</a></span><br><span>Suggested annual donation &nbsp;$12.75<=
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From: Jean Caron <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 1 Mar 2015 23:39:00 +0000

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Michael=2C
I think a perfect example of that is the batch of early Lucas Horn rings th=
at you commissioned=2C they were an excellent reproduction of the original.=
 I am sure that you inspected the samples(s) sent to you before you ordered=
 a quantity of them.

Jean=20

=20
From: [email-masked] [mailto:[email-masked]] On Behalf =
Of Michael Salter
Sent: March-01-15 5:12 PM
To: [email-masked]
Cc: John Davidson=3B Healeys=2C Forum
Subject: Re: [Healeys] water pumps and other repro parts Hi Josef=2CIn your=
 post you said "Most parts are ordered from China. You get a sample=2C you =
order a batch of 100=2C 500 or 1000 pieces."I really believe that the fault=
 lies largely with the company ordering the parts. If a sample is supplied =
it behooves the purchaser to thoroughly inspect and test the sample. The BJ=
8 water pumps are a classic example. Anyone with just a little experience i=
n the rebuilding of water pumps could easily have disassembled such a sampl=
e and determined that the internal parts were not the same as the original =
pump and were just not up to the job. As an individual I have managed to so=
urce the original seal and bearing from reputable suppliers.=20
Using those parts it would have been a lot easier to have the castings made=
 to the original specifications and an exact replica pump then produced. Th=
e pumps that BMC produced were developed over many years and to casually di=
scard all that experience and think that one can easily design an externall=
y similar pump using adapted modern parts that will be reliable=2C without =
extensive testing=2C is total folly. On another note Bob is absolutely corr=
ect in that owners will opt for reproduction parts over restored originals =
every time in the mistaken belief that "new is better". Unfortunately the "=
disposable society" has conditioned the most people to believe that new is =
always better!!
>From hard learned experience I will ALWAYS opt for a good restorable origin=
al component over a new replacement every time even if it costs a lot more.=
 Flame away!!!Michael SBN1 #174=20

If you can't fix it with a hammer=2C you've got an electrical problem.
_______________________________________________=0A=
Archive: http://www.team.net/archive=0A=
=0A=
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<head>
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<body class=3D'hmmessage'><div dir=3D'ltr'>Michael=2C<br>I think a perfect =
example of that is the batch of early Lucas Horn rings that you commissione=
d=2C they were an excellent reproduction of the original. I am sure that yo=
u inspected the samples(s) sent to you before you ordered a quantity of the=
m.<br><br>Jean <br><br><div><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt=3Bfont-family:&=
quot=3BCalibri&quot=3B=2Csans-serif=3Bcolor:#1F497D=3B"> <br></span><div cl=
ass=3D"ecxWordSection1"><p class=3D"ecxMsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-si=
ze:11.0pt=3Bfont-family:&quot=3BCalibri&quot=3B=2Csans-serif=3B" lang=3D"EN=
-US">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt=3Bfont-family:&quot=3B=
Calibri&quot=3B=2Csans-serif=3B" lang=3D"EN-US"> [email-masked] [=
mailto:[email-masked]] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Michael Salter<br><b>S=
ent:</b> March-01-15 5:12 PM<br><b>To:</b> [email-masked]<br><b>C=
c:</b> John Davidson=3B Healeys=2C Forum<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Healeys] w=
ater pumps and other repro parts</span></p><p class=3D"ecxMsoNormal">&nbsp=
=3B</p><div><div><p class=3D"ecxMsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot=
=3BComic Sans MS&quot=3B=3B">Hi Josef=2C</span></p></div><div><p class=3D"e=
cxMsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot=3BComic Sans MS&quot=3B=3B">I=
n your post you said<i> "Most parts are ordered from China. You get a sampl=
e=2C you order a batch of 100=2C 500 or 1000 pieces."</i></span></p></div><=
div><p class=3D"ecxMsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot=3BComic Sans=
 MS&quot=3B=3B">I really believe that the fault lies largely with the compa=
ny ordering the parts. </span></p></div><div><p class=3D"ecxMsoNormal"><spa=
n style=3D"font-family:&quot=3BComic Sans MS&quot=3B=3B">If a sample is sup=
plied it behooves the purchaser to thoroughly inspect and test the sample. =
The BJ8 water pumps are a classic example. Anyone with just a little experi=
ence in the rebuilding of water pumps could easily have disassembled such a=
 sample and determined that the internal parts were not the same as the ori=
ginal pump and were just not up to the job. </span></p></div><div><p class=
=3D"ecxMsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot=3BComic Sans MS&quot=3B=
=3B">As an individual I have managed to source the original seal and bearin=
g from reputable suppliers. <br>Using those parts it would have been a lot =
easier to have the castings made to the original specifications and an exac=
t replica pump then produced. </span></p></div><div><p class=3D"ecxMsoNorma=
l"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot=3BComic Sans MS&quot=3B=3B">The pumps t=
hat BMC produced were developed over many years and to casually discard all=
 that experience and think that one can easily design an externally similar=
 pump using adapted modern parts that will be reliable=2C without extensive=
 testing=2C is total folly. </span></p></div><div><p class=3D"ecxMsoNormal"=
><span style=3D"font-family:&quot=3BComic Sans MS&quot=3B=3B">On another no=
te Bob is absolutely correct in that owners will opt for reproduction parts=
 over restored originals every time in the mistaken belief that "new is bet=
ter". Unfortunately the "disposable society" has conditioned the most peopl=
e to believe that new is always better!!<br>From hard learned experience I =
will ALWAYS opt for a good restorable original component over a new replace=
ment every time even if it costs a lot more. </span></p></div><div><p class=
=3D"ecxMsoNormal" style=3D""><span style=3D"font-family:&quot=3BComic Sans =
MS&quot=3B=3B">Flame away!!!</span></p></div><div><p class=3D"ecxMsoNormal"=
><span style=3D"font-family:&quot=3BComic Sans MS&quot=3B=3B">Michael S</sp=
an></p></div><div><p class=3D"ecxMsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quo=
t=3BComic Sans MS&quot=3B=3B">BN1 #174</span></p></div></div><div><p class=
=3D"ecxMsoNormal">&nbsp=3B</p><div><br><br></div><div><div><div><div><p cla=
ss=3D"ecxMsoNormal" style=3D""><i><span style=3D"color:black=3B">If you can=
't fix it with a hammer=2C you've got an electrical problem.</span></i></p>=
</div></div></div></div></div></div><br>___________________________________=
____________=0A=
Archive: http://www.team.net/archive=0A=
=0A=
[email-masked]=0A=
http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/healeys=0A=
=0A=
[email-masked]</div> 		 	   		  </div></body>
</html>=

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From: Michael Salter <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2015 14:08:55 +1300

--===============2540395131528672399==

--001a11c34270bb7042051043dc9c

Actually Jean that is probably a very good case in point.
Although I have sold quite a few of the horn rims
<http://www.netbug.net/blogmichael/?p=1335> I am far from my target of
recovering my costs for the whole project .
In an effort to recover some of those costs I have offered those rims to a
number of the usual suspects at discounts of up to 50% (making their actual
cost lower than what I paid for them) if they were to purchase sufficient
quantities.
To date they have, without exception, rejected my offer and I find that
very revealing.
I would have thought that close to a 100% mark up on cost would have been a
reasonable margin, I know that if I had been able to achieve that when I
had my parts business I would have been elated.
Perhaps the ultra cheap, rubbish components that we have become accustomed
to purchasing have given many of us a misguided impression of what quality
parts are actually worth and therefore when somebody actually goes to the
effort of reproducing something accurately they are very likely to "loose
their shirt".
Michael S
BN1 #174
<http://www.netbug.net/blogmichael/?p=1335>

On Mon, Mar 2, 2015 at 12:39 PM, Jean Caron <
[email-masked]> wrote:

> Michael,
> I think a perfect example of that is the batch of early Lucas Horn rings
> that you commissioned, they were an excellent reproduction of the original.
> I am sure that you inspected the samples(s) sent to you before you ordered
> a quantity of them.
>
> Jean
>
>
> *From:* [email-masked] [mailto:[email-masked]] *On
> Behalf Of *Michael Salter
> *Sent:* March-01-15 5:12 PM
> *To:* [email-masked]
> *Cc:* John Davidson; Healeys, Forum
> *Subject:* Re: [Healeys] water pumps and other repro parts
>
>
>
> Hi Josef,
>
> In your post you said* "Most parts are ordered from China. You get a
> sample, you order a batch of 100, 500 or 1000 pieces."*
>
> If a sample is supplied it behooves the purchaser to thoroughly inspect
> and test the sample. The BJ8 water pumps are a classic example. Anyone with
> Using those parts it would have been a lot easier to have the castings
> made to the original specifications and an exact replica pump then
> produced.
>
> _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net
> http://www.team.net/donate.html Suggested annual donation $12.75 Archive:
> http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
> [email-masked] http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/healeys
> Unsubscribe/Manage:
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/healeys/[email-masked]
>

--001a11c34270bb7042051043dc9c
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:comic sa=
ns ms,sans-serif;font-size:small">Actually Jean that is probably a very goo=
d case in point. <br>Although I have sold quite a few of the <a href=3D"htt=
p://www.netbug.net/blogmichael/?p=3D1335">horn rims</a> I am far from my ta=
rget of recovering my costs for the whole project .<br>In an effort to reco=
ver some of those costs I have offered those rims to a number of the usual =
suspects at discounts of up to 50% (making their actual cost lower than wha=
t I paid for them) if they were to purchase sufficient quantities.<br>To da=
te they have, without exception, rejected my offer and I find that very rev=
ealing. <br>I would have thought that close to a 100% mark up on cost would=
 have been a reasonable margin, I know that if I had been able to achieve t=
hat when I had my parts business I would have been elated.<br></div><div cl=
ass=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:comic sans ms,sans-serif;font-si=
ze:small">Perhaps the ultra cheap, rubbish components that we have become a=
ccustomed to purchasing have given many of us a misguided impression of wha=
t quality parts are actually worth and therefore when somebody actually goe=
s to the effort of reproducing something accurately they are very likely to=
 &quot;loose their shirt&quot;.<br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=
=3D"font-family:comic sans ms,sans-serif;font-size:small">Michael S<br></di=
v><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:comic sans ms,sans-seri=
f;font-size:small">BN1 #174<br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"=
font-family:comic sans ms,sans-serif;font-size:small"><a href=3D"http://www=
.netbug.net/blogmichael/?p=3D1335"></a></div></div><div class=3D"gmail_extr=
a"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Mon, Mar 2, 2015 at 12:39 PM, Jean Car=
on <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:vintage_roadster_restoration@hot=
mail.com" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt=
;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 =
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">

<div><div dir=3D"ltr">Michael,<br>I think a perfect example of that is the =
batch of early Lucas Horn rings that you commissioned, they were an excelle=
nt reproduction of the original. I am sure that you inspected the samples(s=
) sent to you before you ordered a quantity of them.<br><br>Jean <br><br><d=
iv><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-ser=
if;color:#1f497d"> <br></span><div><span class=3D""><p><b><span style=3D"fo=
nt-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif" lang=3D"EN-US">F=
rom:</span></b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&qu=
ot;,sans-serif" lang=3D"EN-US"> <a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]"=
 target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a> [mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:m=
[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>] <b=
>On Behalf Of </b>Michael Salter<br><b>Sent:</b> March-01-15 5:12 PM<br><b>=
To:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">josef=
[email-masked]</a><br><b>Cc:</b> John Davidson; Healeys, Forum<br><b>S=
ubject:</b> Re: [Healeys] water pumps and other repro parts</span></p><p>=
=C2=A0</p><div><div><p><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Comic Sans MS&quot;=
">Hi Josef,</span></p></div><div><p><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Comic =
Sans MS&quot;">In your post you said<i> &quot;Most parts are ordered from C=
hina. You get a sample, you order a batch of 100, 500 or 1000 pieces.&quot;=
</i></span></p></div><div><p><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Comic Sans MS=
&quot;">I really believe that the fault lies largely with the company order=
ing the parts. </span></p></div><div><p><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Co=
mic Sans MS&quot;">If a sample is supplied it behooves the purchaser to tho=
roughly inspect and test the sample. The BJ8 water pumps are a classic exam=
ple. Anyone with just a little experience in the rebuilding of water pumps =
could easily have disassembled such a sample and determined that the intern=
al parts were not the same as the original pump and were just not up to the=
 job. </span></p></div><div><p><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Comic Sans =
MS&quot;">As an individual I have managed to source the original seal and b=
earing from reputable suppliers. <br>Using those parts it would have been a=
 lot easier to have the castings made to the original specifications and an=
 exact replica pump then produced. </span></p></div><div><p><span style=3D"=
font-family:&quot;Comic Sans MS&quot;">The pumps that BMC produced were dev=
eloped over many years and to casually discard all that experience and thin=
k that one can easily design an externally similar pump using adapted moder=
n parts that will be reliable, without extensive testing, is total folly. <=
/span></p></div><div><p><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Comic Sans MS&quot=
;">On another note Bob is absolutely correct in that owners will opt for re=
production parts over restored originals every time in the mistaken belief =
that &quot;new is better&quot;. Unfortunately the &quot;disposable society&=
quot; has conditioned the most people to believe that new is always better!=
!<br>From hard learned experience I will ALWAYS opt for a good restorable o=
riginal component over a new replacement every time even if it costs a lot =
more. </span></p></div><div><p><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Comic Sans =
MS&quot;">Flame away!!!</span></p></div><div><p><span style=3D"font-family:=
&quot;Comic Sans MS&quot;">Michael S</span></p></div><div><p><span style=3D=
"font-family:&quot;Comic Sans MS&quot;">BN1 #174</span></p></div></div></sp=
an><div><p>=C2=A0</p><div><br><br></div><span class=3D""><div><div><div><di=
v><p><i><span style=3D"color:black">If you can&#39;t fix it with a hammer, =
you&#39;ve got an electrical problem.</span></i></p></div></div></div></div=
></span></div></div><br>_______________________________________________
nk">http://www.team.net/donate.html</a>
Archive: <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/archive" target=3D"_blank">http://w=
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Forums: <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/forums" target=3D"_blank">http://www=
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<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]=
eam.net</a>
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s/[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">http://autox.=
team.net/mailman/options/healeys/[email-masked]</=
a></div> 		 	   		  </div></div>
</blockquote></div><br><br clear=3D"all"><br>-- <br><div class=3D"gmail_sig=
nature"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div><div dir=3D"ltr"><i><font><span style=3D"colo=
r:black">If you can&#39;t fix it with a hammer, you&#39;ve got an electrica=
l problem.</span></font></i><br><br><div></div><div></div><div></div></div>=
</div></div></div>
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---

From: "Greg Lemon" <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 1 Mar 2015 21:57:46 -0600

I think Andy (below) hit the nail right on the head.  Most of us aren't 
fortunate enough to live close enough to a supplier to be able to pick up 
the parts in person, so we order on faith, then we get what we get and, 
often knee deep in a project and hoping to get the car back on the road in 
short order, we attempt to fix the part and make do rather than return it 
and wait another week or more for a better part (if you can indeed source 
one).   Actually I have had a few experiences like that, probably one of 
worst cases involving a water pump coincidentally.  In addition, when 
ordering from catalogues or online with nothing more than factory drawing, a 
part number, and a price, you can see why people buy on price, because they 
really have no indication of quality or lack thereof when shopping for the 
part.

Unfortunately this does not lend itself to getting the message to the 
manufacturers and suppliers that substandard parts are not acceptable, if we 
bought the part at the local auto parts store and it didn't fit we would 
likely drive right back and return it, but not so easy with delivered parts.

I think the key is really working with Moss, Moss supplies the vast majority 
of parts for our cars, and would have the most clout with the manufacturers, 
(many smaller independent dealers are primarily Moss reselllers).  I think 
they do care about quality, but the have to stock relatively small numbers 
of thousands of parts, so not easy (economically) to test install and 
quality control all the the products once let alone in a larger number to 
get a more statistically significant sample, and I am sure it would drive 
the cost up, but if we let them know what isn't right or doesn't work, 
hopefully they work with the manufacturer to remedy.

Greg Lemon

"In my opinion the only reason that this happens to the extent that it does,

 Andy"

[email-masked]

---

From: Michael MacLean <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 1 Mar 2015 20:59:38 -0800

--===============0220057159851880585==

--1335665764-1937263051-1425272378=:5919

I asked Moss about this a while ago.  They told me people are not willing to pay for the quality parts.  Moss can get them, but customers want the cheaper prices.  So, price point rules the inventory.
Mike MacLean
56 BN2
60 AN5

On Sunday, March 1, 2015 8:00 PM, Greg Lemon <[email-masked]> wrote:

>Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/healeys/[email-masked]
>
>
>
>
--1335665764-1937263051-1425272378=:5919

<html><body><div style="color:#000; background-color:#fff; font-family:HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif;font-size:16px"><div><span>I asked Moss about this a while ago.&nbsp; They told me people are not willing to pay for the quality parts.&nbsp; Moss can get them, but customers want the cheaper prices.&nbsp; So, price point rules the inventory.</span></div><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 16px; font-family: HelveticaNeue,Helvetica Neue,Helvetica,Arial,Lucida Grande,sans-serif; background-color: transparent; font-style: normal;"><span>Mike MacLean</span></div><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 16px; font-family: HelveticaNeue,Helvetica Neue,Helvetica,Arial,Lucida Grande,sans-serif; background-color: transparent; font-style: normal;"><span>56 BN2</span></div><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 16px; font-family: HelveticaNeue,Helvetica Neue,Helvetica,Arial,Lucida Grande,sans-serif;
 background-color: transparent; font-style: normal;"><span>60 AN5</span></div> <div class="qtdSeparateBR"><br><br></div><div style="display: block;" class="yahoo_quoted"> <div style="font-family: HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif; font-size: 16px;"> <div style="font-family: HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif; font-size: 16px;"> <div dir="ltr"> <font size="2" face="Arial"> On Sunday, March 1, 2015 8:00 PM, Greg Lemon &lt;[email-masked]&gt; wrote:<br> </font> </div> <blockquote style="border-left: 2px solid rgb(16, 16, 255); margin-left: 5px; margin-top: 5px; padding-left: 5px;">  <br><br> <div class="y_msg_container">I think Andy (below) hit the nail right on the head.&nbsp; Most of us aren't <br>fortunate enough to live close enough to a supplier to be able to pick up <br>the parts in person, so we order on faith, then we get what we get and, <br>often knee deep in a
 project and hoping to get the car back on the road in <br>short order, we attempt to fix the part and make do rather than return it <br>and wait another week or more for a better part (if you can indeed source <br>one).&nbsp;  Actually I have had a few experiences like that, probably one of <br>worst cases involving a water pump coincidentally.&nbsp; In addition, when <br>ordering from catalogues or online with nothing more than factory drawing, a <br>part number, and a price, you can see why people buy on price, because they <br>really have no indication of quality or lack thereof when shopping for the <br>part.<br><br>Unfortunately this does not lend itself to getting the message to the <br>manufacturers and suppliers that substandard parts are not acceptable, if we <br>bought the part at the local auto parts store and it didn't fit we would <br>likely drive right back and return it, but not so easy with delivered parts.<br><br>I think the key is
 really working with Moss, Moss supplies the vast majority <br>of parts for our cars, and would have the most clout with the manufacturers, <br>(many smaller independent dealers are primarily Moss reselllers).&nbsp; I think <br>they do care about quality, but the have to stock relatively small numbers <br>of thousands of parts, so not easy (economically) to test install and <br>quality control all the the products once let alone in a larger number to <br>get a more statistically significant sample, and I am sure it would drive <br>the cost up, but if we let them know what isn't right or doesn't work, <br>hopefully they work with the manufacturer to remedy.<br><br>Greg Lemon<br><br><br>"In my opinion the only reason that this happens to the extent that it does,<br> is that suppliers believe that they have a captive market and rely on the<br> fact that most customers are unaware at the outset that they are buying a<br> compromised product at times ... and
 when they do realise they are more<br> likely to try to fix the situation themselves, and so the saga continues.<br><br> Andy"<br><br> <br><br>_______________________________________________<br>Support Team.Net <a href="http://www.team.net/donate.html" target="_blank">http://www.team.net/donate.html</a><br>Suggested annual donation&nbsp; $12.75<br>Archive: <a href="http://www.team.net/archive" target="_blank">http://www.team.net/archive</a><br>Forums: <a href="http://www.team.net/forums" target="_blank">http://www.team.net/forums</a><br><br><a ymailto="mailto:[email-masked]" href="mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a><br><a href="http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/healeys" target="_blank">http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/healeys</a><br><br>Unsubscribe/Manage: <a href="http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/healeys/[email-masked]"
 target="_blank">http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/healeys/[email-masked]</a><br><br><br><br></div> </blockquote>  </div> </div>   </div> </div></body></html>
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From: Oudesluys <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 02 Mar 2015 09:00:05 +0100

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Hear, hear!!

Kees Oudesluijs

Michael Salter schreef op 2-3-2015 om 0:12:
> Hi Josef,
> In your post you said/"Most parts are ordered from China. You get a 
> /
> I really believe that the fault lies largely with the company ordering 
> the parts.
> If a sample is supplied it behooves the purchaser to thoroughly 
> inspect and test the sample. The BJ8 water pumps are a classic 
> example. Anyone with just a little experience in the rebuilding of 
> water pumps could easily have disassembled such a sample and 
> determined that the internal parts were not the same as the original 
> pump and were just not up to the job.
> As an individual I have managed to source the original seal and 
> bearing from reputable suppliers.
> The pumps that BMC produced were developed over many years and to 
> casually discard all that experience and think that one can easily 
> design an externally similar pump using adapted modern parts that will 
> be reliable, without extensive testing, is total folly.
> belief that "new is better". Unfortunately the "disposable society" 
> has conditioned the most people to believe that new is always better!!
> original component over a new replacement every time even if it costs 
> a lot more.
> Flame away!!!
>
> Michael S
> BN1 #174
>
> On Mon, Mar 2, 2015 at 4:11 AM, [email-masked] 
>
>     Most parts are ordered from China. You get a sample, you order a
>     batch of 100, 500 or 1000 pieces. Perhaps you get 5% customer
>     complains, which is normal, when the batch is slightly faulty you
>     may get 10% customer complains. When its more you will have to
>     think about the issue. When there are no complains, parts are not
>     sent back, all is fine, even parts are faulty and customers fix on
>     their oown. Often thee are no complains, even the part is faulty,
>     To put in a quality control in the system would raise the net
>     purchase price to a double or tripple. Customers move to the
>     competitor, as you can`t sell it to the prize your competitor
>     does. You may not believe the low purchase prize of these parts
>     from China, but you need to buy batches of at least 100 parts. So
>     when they are faulty you need to sell most of them before you look
>     for a different supplier. You can`t send these parts back, as
>     delivery costs are higher than the parts value and Chinese
>     An: "'Magnus Karlsson'" <[email-masked]
>
>     H (204) 895-4523 <tel:%28204%29%20895-4523>, C (204) 295-9207
>     <tel:%28204%29%20295-9207>
>
>
>
>
> /If you can't fix it with a hammer, you've got an electrical problem./
>
>
>
> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/healeys/[email-masked]
>
>
>
> Geen virus gevonden in dit bericht.
> Gecontroleerd door AVG - www.avg.com <http://www.avg.com>
> Versie: 2015.0.5751 / Virusdatabase: 4299/9210 - datum van uitgifte: 
> 03/02/15
>

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    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">Hear, hear!!<br>
      <br>
      Kees Oudesluijs<br>
      <br>
      <br>
      <br>
      Michael Salter schreef op 2-3-2015 om 0:12:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote
cite="mid:[email-masked]"
      type="cite">
      <meta http-equiv="Context-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
      <div dir="ltr">
        <div class="gmail_default">Hi Josef,<br>
        </div>
        <div class="gmail_default">In your post you said<i> "Most parts
            are ordered from China. You get a sample, you order a batch
            of 100, 500 or 1000 pieces."<br>
          </i></div>
        <div class="gmail_default">I really believe that the fault lies
          largely with the company ordering the parts. <br>
        </div>
        <div class="gmail_default">If a sample is supplied it behooves
          the purchaser to thoroughly inspect and test the sample. The
          BJ8 water pumps are a classic example. Anyone with just a
          little experience in the rebuilding of water pumps could
          easily have disassembled such a sample and determined that the
          internal parts were not the same as the original pump and were
          just not up to the job. <br>
        </div>
        <div class="gmail_default">As an individual I have managed to
          source the original seal and bearing from reputable suppliers.
          <br>
          Using those parts it would have been a lot easier to have the
          castings made to the original specifications and an exact
          replica pump then produced. <br>
        </div>
        <div class="gmail_default">The pumps that BMC produced were
          developed over many years and to casually discard all that
          experience and think that one can easily design an externally
          similar pump using adapted modern parts that will be reliable,
          without extensive testing, is total folly. <br>
        </div>
        <div class="gmail_default">On another note Bob is absolutely
          correct in that owners will opt for reproduction parts over
          restored originals every time in the mistaken belief that "new
          is better". Unfortunately the "disposable society" has
          conditioned the most people to believe that new is always
          better!!<br>
          From hard learned experience I will ALWAYS opt for a good
          restorable original component over a new replacement every
          time even if it costs a lot more. <br>
        </div>
        <div class="gmail_default">Flame away!!!<br>
          <br>
        </div>
        <div class="gmail_default">Michael S<br>
        </div>
        <div class="gmail_default">BN1 #174<br>
        </div>
      </div>
      <div class="gmail_extra"><br>
        <div class="gmail_quote">On Mon, Mar 2, 2015 at 4:11 AM, <a
            moz-do-not-send="true"
            href="mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>
          <span dir="ltr">&lt;<a moz-do-not-send="true"
              href="mailto:[email-masked]" target="_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt;</span>
          wrote:<br>
          <blockquote class="gmail_quote">Sorry, but this is very naive
            thinking. I am working part time for a big parts supplier
            here in Europe.<br>
            Most parts are ordered from China. You get a sample, you
            order a batch of 100, 500 or 1000 pieces. Perhaps you get 5%
            customer complains, which is normal, when the batch is
            slightly faulty you may get 10% customer complains. When its
            more you will have to think about the issue. When there are
            no complains, parts are not sent back, all is fine, even
            parts are faulty and customers fix on their oown. Often thee
            are no complains, even the part is faulty, but its cheaper
            than the similar part from the competitor.<br>
            To put in a quality control in the system would raise the
            net purchase price to a double or tripple. Customers move to
            the competitor, as you can`t sell it to the prize your
            competitor does. You may not believe the low purchase prize
            of these parts from China, but you need to buy batches of at
            least 100 parts. So when they are faulty you need to sell
            most of them before you look for a different supplier. You
            can`t send these parts back, as delivery costs are higher
            than the parts value and Chinese suppliers are not very
            customer friendly.<br>
            <br>
            Josef Eckert<br>
            Konigswinter/Germany<br>
            <br>
            <br>
            -----Original-Nachricht-----<br>
            Betreff: Re: [Healeys] water pumps and other repro parts<br>
            Datum: Sun, 01 Mar 2015 15:37:05 +0100<br>
            Von: "John Davidson" &lt;<a moz-do-not-send="true"
              href="mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>&gt;<br>
            An: "'Magnus Karlsson'" &lt;<a moz-do-not-send="true"
              href="mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>&gt;,
            "'Andy'" &lt;<a moz-do-not-send="true"
              href="mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>&gt;<br>
            <span class="im HOEnZb"><br>
              I agree that such a listing would be a very valuable tool
              both for the owner<br>
              and the restorer to implicitly apply pressure to the
              industry. This<br>
              potentially will be seen by some in the industry as an
              opportunity to<br>
              justify higher pricing to eliminate the poor quality
              problems. The list<br>
              should be written in the positive as this will reduce the
              potential for any<br>
              legal actions as the list only contains those who have
              provided the proper<br>
              part as close to original as technology improvements
              allow. This list would<br>
              need to be "live" as there are suppliers who will
              genuinely not know that<br>
              their suppliers/manufacturers have not met the "standard
              of acceptance" but<br>
              who would respond properly to being notified of the
              problem.<br>
              <br>
              John R Davidson, BN2, AN5<br>
              H <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                href="tel:%28204%29%20895-4523" value="+12048954523">(204)
                895-4523</a>, C <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                href="tel:%28204%29%20295-9207" value="+12042959207">(204)
                295-9207</a><br>
              <br>
              <br>
              <br>
              <br>
            </span>
            <div class="HOEnZb">
              <div class="h5">_______________________________________________<br>
                Support Team.Net <a moz-do-not-send="true"
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            </div>
          </blockquote>
        </div>
        <br>
        <br>
        <br>
        -- <br>
        <div class="gmail_signature">
          <div dir="ltr">
            <div>
              <div dir="ltr"><i><span>If you can't fix it with a hammer,
                    you've got an electrical problem.</span></i><br>
                <br>
              </div>
            </div>
          </div>
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      <p class="">Geen virus gevonden in dit bericht.<br>
        Gecontroleerd door AVG - <a moz-do-not-send="true"
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