Subject: Re: [Healeys] Healey Values

From: Tom Felts <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 31 Jul 2016 15:48:33 -0400

Maybe you should be careful with assumptions before being so righteous. Drive my Healey?  Well=--let's see--does 6000 miles across Europe for 1 and 1/2 months count--or trips to any number of Conclaves--last being to Canada.  Many trip to the East Coast.

When I said bad news---------it should have been obvious what I meant, but I'll explain.  IF----a person was trying to sell their Healey--and there are plenty of folks with money out there---then with values dropping-----humm---you might have to sell it for less than you had hoped for.  I'd say that counts for a little bad news.

Simple really.

If you need more clarification, let me know.

Tom Felts
---- Michael MacLean <[email-masked]> wrote: 

=============
How is this not good news?  Maybe the prices will come down from the stratosphere and more new enthusiasts can enjoy these cars.  If they price themselves too high, who is going to buy them?  With the aging demographic of Healey owners, you won't get new blood if the younger set can not afford to buy one.  Do you own it as an investment or are you using it as intended, to drive the damn thing and have fun with it?  Just my opinion after spending far more money than I should have on my BN2 restoration.Mike MacLean

    On Sunday, July 31, 2016 8:24 AM, Tom Felts <[email-masked]> wrote:

 Not good news for Healey owners.

http://tinyurl.com/z25ahn8

tom
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From: Tom Felts <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 31 Jul 2016 15:49:26 -0400

see my note to Mike.

---- HealeyRick <[email-masked]> wrote: 

=============
Only bad news if you value your Healey just in terms of dollars, pounds,
marks etc

If you value them in terms of fun, the smell of an old British sports car,
an exhaust note, the trips you take and the friends you've made,they are
still appreciating.

If I hold onto them until I croak, I haven't lost a penny.

Rick Neville..

On Fri, Jul 29, 2016 at 8:06 AM, Tom Felts <[email-masked]> wrote:

> Unsubscribe/Manage:
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/healeys/[email-masked]
>
>

[email-masked]

---

From: Tom Felts <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 31 Jul 2016 15:54:28 -0400

yes Mitch--I love mine also---and have no plans to sell it.  But if I do  I'd rather get todays prices than what may lie ahead.  But for those who don't mind less when sell day comes, well-----that is OK also.
---- mitch <[email-masked]> wrote: 

=============
Hello Tom, list

I saw the report by Haggerty ….not Good news.

I just walked into the house a few minutes ago, after a 100-150 mile spirited run in my BJ8
Who cares what Haggerty has to say!!!!!
I love my Healey…..love driving it, working on it, washing it ,looking at it………and by all the thumbs up, comments from people  while driving it today…….I am not alone 

Regards
Mitch
66 BJ8
59 BN4

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: Tom Felts

[email-masked]

---

From: Michael MacLean <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 31 Jul 2016 20:43:16 +0000 (UTC)

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Righteous?=C2=A0 Really Tom?=C2=A0 This was not a personal attack.=C2=A0 It=
 was a general statement.=C2=A0 Prices can not go up forever.=C2=A0 There a=
re cycles to any commodity.=C2=A0 Eventually prices will rise again.=C2=A0 =
Of course taking a loss is not anyone's ideal situation.=C2=A0 Maybe you sh=
ould have been into Porsches ten years ago or so.=C2=A0 Right now they are =
going for ridiculous sums almost no one can afford.=C2=A0 As far as I am co=
ncerned I am into Healey cars because I like them.=C2=A0 If money was a con=
cern I would not have spent almost $25K restoring my Bugeye back in 1999 wi=
th no hope of ever recovering that amount when I sell it.=C2=A0 I just love=
 Bugeyes.=C2=A0 Besides the auction prices are artificially inflated by peo=
ple looking only for an investment.=C2=A0 Austin Healeys are going the way =
of the Model T anyway.=C2=A0 Model Ts are going for very low prices these d=
ays because there is no one left that originally drove them.=C2=A0 It won't=
 be long before Healeys suffer the same fate.=C2=A0 Eventually the restorat=
ion scene will be mostly Japanese tuner cars for the next generation.=C2=A0=
 Even the Peterson museum recognizes this.=C2=A0 My son's 2002 Lexus lowere=
d drifter car is on their brochure.=C2=A0 There will always be a market for=
 Austin Healey cars, it just won't be as big as it is today.=C2=A0 Not bein=
g confrontational, I just see the writing on the wall.Mike MacLean
=20

    On Sunday, July 31, 2016 12:48 PM, Tom Felts <[email-masked]> =
wrote:
=20
=20

 Maybe you should be careful with assumptions before being so righteous. Dr=
ive my Healey?=C2=A0 Well=3D--let's see--does 6000 miles across Europe for =
1 and 1/2 months count--or trips to any number of Conclaves--last being to =
Canada.=C2=A0 Many trip to the East Coast.

When I said bad news---------it should have been obvious what I meant, but =
I'll explain.=C2=A0 IF----a person was trying to sell their Healey--and the=
re are plenty of folks with money out there---then with values dropping----=
-humm---you might have to sell it for less than you had hoped for.=C2=A0 I'=
d say that counts for a little bad news.

Simple really.

Tom Felts
---- Michael MacLean <[email-masked]> wrote:=20

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
How is this not good news?=C2=A0 Maybe the prices will come down from the s=
tratosphere and more new enthusiasts can enjoy these cars.=C2=A0 If they pr=
ice themselves too high, who is going to buy them?=C2=A0 With the aging dem=
ographic of Healey owners, you won't get new blood if the younger set can n=
ot afford to buy one.=C2=A0 Do you own it as an investment or are you using=
 it as intended, to drive the damn thing and have fun with it?=C2=A0 Just m=
y opinion after spending far more money than I should have on my BN2 restor=
ation.Mike MacLean
=20

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 On Sunday, July 31, 2016 8:24 AM, Tom Felts <tomfelts@windstr=
eam.net> wrote:
=20
=20

tom

[email-masked]

[email-masked]

=20

=20
  
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<html><head></head><body><div style=3D"color:#000; background-color:#fff; f=
ont-family:times new roman, new york, times, serif;font-size:16px"><div id=
=3D"yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1469996458179_7771">Righteous?&nbsp; Really Tom?&nbsp=
; This was not a personal attack.&nbsp; It was a general statement.&nbsp; P=
rices can not go up forever.&nbsp; There are cycles to any commodity.&nbsp;=
 Eventually prices will rise again.&nbsp; Of course taking a loss is not an=
yone's ideal situation.&nbsp; Maybe you should have been into Porsches ten =
years ago or so.&nbsp; Right now they are going for ridiculous sums almost =
no one can afford.&nbsp; As far as I am concerned I am into Healey cars bec=
ause I like them.&nbsp; If money was a concern I would not have spent almos=
t $25K restoring my Bugeye back in 1999 with no hope of ever recovering tha=
t amount when I sell it.&nbsp; I just love Bugeyes.&nbsp; Besides the aucti=
on prices are artificially inflated by people looking only for an investmen=
t.&nbsp; Austin Healeys are going the way of the Model T anyway.&nbsp; Mode=
l Ts are going for very low prices these days because there is no one left =
that originally drove them.&nbsp; It won't be long before Healeys suffer th=
e same fate.&nbsp; Eventually the restoration scene will be mostly Japanese=
 tuner cars for the next generation.&nbsp; Even the Peterson museum recogni=
zes this.&nbsp; My son's 2002 Lexus lowered drifter car is on their brochur=
e.&nbsp; There will always be a market for Austin Healey cars, it just won'=
t be as big as it is today.&nbsp; Not being confrontational, I just see the=
 writing on the wall.</div><div id=3D"yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1469996458179_8407"=
 dir=3D"ltr">Mike MacLean<br></div><div id=3D"yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_14699964581=
79_7295"><span></span></div> <div class=3D"qtdSeparateBR"><br><br></div><di=
v style=3D"display: block;" class=3D"yahoo_quoted"> <div style=3D"font-fami=
ly: times new roman, new york, times, serif; font-size: 16px;"> <div style=
=3D"font-family: HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Gr=
ande, sans-serif; font-size: 16px;"> <div dir=3D"ltr"><font face=3D"Arial" =
size=3D"2"> On Sunday, July 31, 2016 12:48 PM, Tom Felts &lt;tomfelts@winds=
tream.net&gt; wrote:<br></font></div> <blockquote style=3D"border-left: 2px=
 solid rgb(16, 16, 255); margin-left: 5px; margin-top: 5px; padding-left: 5=
px;"> <br><br> <div class=3D"y_msg_container">Maybe you should be careful w=
ith assumptions before being so righteous. Drive my Healey?&nbsp; Well=3D--=
let's see--does 6000 miles across Europe for 1 and 1/2 months count--or tri=
ps to any number of Conclaves--last being to Canada.&nbsp; Many trip to the=
 East Coast.<br clear=3D"none"><br clear=3D"none">When I said bad news-----=
----it should have been obvious what I meant, but I'll explain.&nbsp; IF---=
-a person was trying to sell their Healey--and there are plenty of folks wi=
th money out there---then with values dropping-----humm---you might have to=
 sell it for less than you had hoped for.&nbsp; I'd say that counts for a l=
ittle bad news.<br clear=3D"none"><br clear=3D"none">Simple really.<br clea=
r=3D"none"><br clear=3D"none">If you need more clarification, let me know.<=
br clear=3D"none"><br clear=3D"none">Tom Felts<div class=3D"yqt9260699708" =
id=3D"yqtfd36355"><br clear=3D"none">---- Michael MacLean &lt;<a shape=3D"r=
ect" ymailto=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" href=3D"mailto:rrengineer.m=
[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote: <br clear=3D"none"><br =
clear=3D"none">=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D<br clear=3D"none">Ho=
w is this not good news?&nbsp; Maybe the prices will come down from the str=
atosphere and more new enthusiasts can enjoy these cars.&nbsp; If they pric=
e themselves too high, who is going to buy them?&nbsp; With the aging demog=
raphic of Healey owners, you won't get new blood if the younger set can not=
 afford to buy one.&nbsp; Do you own it as an investment or are you using i=
t as intended, to drive the damn thing and have fun with it?&nbsp; Just my =
opinion after spending far more money than I should have on my BN2 restorat=
ion.Mike MacLean<br clear=3D"none"> <br clear=3D"none"><br clear=3D"none">&=
nbsp; &nbsp; On Sunday, July 31, 2016 8:24 AM, Tom Felts &lt;<a shape=3D"re=
ct" ymailto=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" href=3D"mailto:tomfelts@wind=
stream.net">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:<br clear=3D"none"> <br c=
lear=3D"none"> <br clear=3D"none"><br clear=3D"none"> Not good news for Hea=
ley owners.<br clear=3D"none"><br clear=3D"none"><a shape=3D"rect" href=3D"=
http://tinyurl.com/z25ahn8" target=3D"_blank">http://tinyurl.com/z25ahn8</a=
><br clear=3D"none"><br clear=3D"none">tom<br clear=3D"none">______________=
_________________________________<br clear=3D"none">Support Team.Net <a sha=
pe=3D"rect" href=3D"http://www.team.net/donate.html" target=3D"_blank">http=
://www.team.net/donate.html</a><br clear=3D"none">Suggested annual donation=
&nbsp; $12.75<br clear=3D"none">Archive: <a shape=3D"rect" href=3D"http://w=
ww.team.net/archive" target=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/archive</a><br c=
lear=3D"none">Forums: <a shape=3D"rect" href=3D"http://www.team.net/forums"=
 target=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/forums</a><br clear=3D"none"><br cle=
ar=3D"none"><a shape=3D"rect" ymailto=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" hre=
f=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a><br clear=3D"=
none"><a shape=3D"rect" href=3D"http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/heal=
eys" target=3D"_blank">http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/healeys</a><b=
r clear=3D"none"><br clear=3D"none">Unsubscribe/Manage: <a shape=3D"rect" h=
ref=3D"http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/healeys/[email-masked]=
t" target=3D"_blank">http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/healeys/rrengine=
[email-masked]</a><br clear=3D"none"><br clear=3D"none"><br clear=3D"none"=
><br clear=3D"none"> <br clear=3D"none"></div><br><br></div> </blockquote> =
</div> </div>  </div></div></body></html>
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[email-masked]

--===============2096207951192316145==--

---

From: Tom Felts <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 31 Jul 2016 20:13:33 -0400

OK---maybe I came down a bit hard on my response, but for goodness sake, all I was trying to do was point out the fact that Healey values (according to Hagerty) have decreased, and that is was a bit of bad news to me anyway.  I wasn't talking about how much we love them or work on them or their value to us.

tom

=============
Righteous?  Really Tom?  This was not a personal attack.  It was a general statement.  Prices can not go up forever.  There are cycles to any commodity.  Eventually prices will rise again.  Of course taking a loss is not anyone's ideal situation.  Maybe you should have been into Porsches ten years ago or so.  Right now they are going for ridiculous sums almost no one can afford.  As far as I am concerned I am into Healey cars because I like them.  If money was a concern I would not have spent almost $25K restoring my Bugeye back in 1999 with no hope of ever recovering that amount when I sell it.  I just love Bugeyes.  Besides the auction prices are artificially inflated by people looking only for an investment.  Austin Healeys are going the way of the Model T anyway.  Model Ts are going for very low prices these days because there is no one left that originally drove them.  It won't be long before Healeys suffer the same fate.  Eventually the restoration scene will be mostly Japanese tuner cars for the next generation.  Even the Peterson museum recognizes this.  My son's 2002 Lexus lowered drifter car is on their brochure.  There will always be a market for Austin Healey cars, it just won't be as big as it is today.  Not being confrontational, I just see the writing on the wall.Mike MacLean

 

[email-masked]

---

From: Michael MacLean <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 1 Aug 2016 00:52:06 +0000 (UTC)

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Tom,=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 I'm sorry if it sounded like I was coming down=
 on you.=C2=A0 Back in January my Healey mentor Tom Rocke passed away.=C2=
=A0 He had sold numerous Healeys at auction, RM, Barret Jackson, ETC.=C2=A0=
 He told me last year before he got sick the market was getting soft.=C2=A0=
 He was dealing with the higher end of the game.=C2=A0 He restored four 100=
M cars as well as some just absolutely stunning BJ8 cars.=C2=A0 He was in t=
he $100 to $250K range in sales.=C2=A0 He said he did his last Healey just =
before the end of last year.=C2=A0 He was selling classic Italian and Porsc=
he cars just before his death.=C2=A0 It has not deterred me from completein=
g my BN2 LeMans car.=C2=A0 I am doing it because I simply love these cars.=
=C2=A0 In four months I will be retired and can devote much more time to th=
e completion of the BN2 as finances permit.=C2=A0 My Bugeye is and has been=
 a work in progress.=C2=A0 I have gone from concours level AN5 to a well ma=
ssaged 1275 and Datsun transmission.=C2=A0 It is a lot more fun these days.=
=C2=A0 Now I need to convert to disk brakes in the front and if I was indep=
endently wealthy, disk in the rear.=C2=A0 A work in progress.=C2=A0 And oh,=
 I have a 2002 Harley Davidson Heritage Springer that will never be finishe=
d, but that is another story.=C2=A0 Don't worry, prices will rise again, ev=
en Hagerty admits the market cycles.=C2=A0=20
Mike MacLean
=20

    On Sunday, July 31, 2016 5:13 PM, Tom Felts <[email-masked]> w=
rote:
=20
=20

 OK---maybe I came down a bit hard on my response, but for goodness sake, a=
ll I was trying to do was point out the fact that Healey values (according =
to Hagerty) have decreased, and that is was a bit of bad news to me anyway.=
=C2=A0 I wasn't talking about how much we love them or work on them or thei=
r value to us.

tom

=20

=20

=20
  
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<html><head></head><body><div style=3D"color:#000; background-color:#fff; f=
ont-family:times new roman, new york, times, serif;font-size:16px"><div id=
=3D"yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1470011776407_3280">Tom,</div><div id=3D"yui_3_16_0_y=
m19_1_1470011776407_3173" dir=3D"ltr">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; I'm sorry if=
 it sounded like I was coming down on you.&nbsp; Back in January my Healey =
mentor Tom Rocke passed away.&nbsp; He had sold numerous Healeys at auction=
, RM, Barret Jackson, ETC.&nbsp; He told me last year before he got sick th=
e market was getting soft.&nbsp; He was dealing with the higher end of the =
game.&nbsp; He restored four 100M cars as well as some just absolutely stun=
ning BJ8 cars.&nbsp; He was in the $100 to $250K range in sales.&nbsp; He s=
aid he did his last Healey just before the end of last year.&nbsp; He was s=
elling classic Italian and Porsche cars just before his death.&nbsp; It has=
 not deterred me from completeing my BN2 LeMans car.&nbsp; I am doing it be=
cause I simply love these cars.&nbsp; In four months I will be retired and =
can devote much more time to the completion of the BN2 as finances permit.&=
nbsp; My Bugeye is and has been a work in progress.&nbsp; I have gone from =
concours level AN5 to a well massaged 1275 and Datsun transmission.&nbsp; I=
t is a lot more fun these days.&nbsp; Now I need to convert to disk brakes =
in the front and if I was independently wealthy, disk in the rear.&nbsp; A =
work in progress.&nbsp; And oh, I have a 2002 Harley Davidson Heritage Spri=
nger that will never be finished, but that is another story.&nbsp; Don't wo=
rry, prices will rise again, even Hagerty admits the market cycles.&nbsp; <=
br></div><div id=3D"yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1470011776407_3830" dir=3D"ltr">Mike =
MacLean<br></div><div id=3D"yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1470011776407_3172"><span></s=
pan></div> <div class=3D"qtdSeparateBR"><br><br></div><div style=3D"display=
: block;" class=3D"yahoo_quoted"> <div style=3D"font-family: times new roma=
n, new york, times, serif; font-size: 16px;"> <div style=3D"font-family: He=
lveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif; f=
ont-size: 16px;"> <div dir=3D"ltr"><font face=3D"Arial" size=3D"2"> On Sund=
ay, July 31, 2016 5:13 PM, Tom Felts &lt;[email-masked]&gt; wrote:=
<br></font></div> <blockquote style=3D"border-left: 2px solid rgb(16, 16, 2=
55); margin-left: 5px; margin-top: 5px; padding-left: 5px;"> <br><br> <div =
class=3D"y_msg_container">OK---maybe I came down a bit hard on my response,=
 but for goodness sake, all I was trying to do was point out the fact that =
Healey values (according to Hagerty) have decreased, and that is was a bit =
of bad news to me anyway.&nbsp; I wasn't talking about how much we love the=
m or work on them or their value to us.<br clear=3D"none"><br clear=3D"none=
">tom<div class=3D"yqt7169632234" id=3D"yqtfd60501"><br clear=3D"none">----=
 Michael MacLean &lt;<a shape=3D"rect" ymailto=3D"mailto:rrengineer.mike@at=
t.net" href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>&=
gt; wrote: <br clear=3D"none"><br clear=3D"none">=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D<br clear=3D"none">Righteous?&nbsp; Really Tom?&nbsp; This w=
as not a personal attack.&nbsp; It was a general statement.&nbsp; Prices ca=
n not go up forever.&nbsp; There are cycles to any commodity.&nbsp; Eventua=
lly prices will rise again.&nbsp; Of course taking a loss is not anyone's i=
deal situation.&nbsp; Maybe you should have been into Porsches ten years ag=
o or so.&nbsp; Right now they are going for ridiculous sums almost no one c=
an afford.&nbsp; As far as I am concerned I am into Healey cars because I l=
ike them.&nbsp; If money was a concern I would not have spent almost $25K r=
estoring my Bugeye back in 1999 with no hope of ever recovering that amount=
 when I sell it.&nbsp; I just love Bugeyes.&nbsp; Besides the auction price=
s are artificially inflated by people looking only for an investment.&nbsp;=
 Austin Healeys are going the way of the Model T anyway.&nbsp; Model Ts are=
 going for very low prices these days because there is no one left that ori=
ginally drove them.&nbsp; It won't be long before Healeys suffer the same f=
ate.&nbsp; Eventually the restoration scene will be mostly Japanese tuner c=
ars for the next generation.&nbsp; Even the Peterson museum recognizes this=
.&nbsp; My son's 2002 Lexus lowered drifter car is on their brochure.&nbsp;=
 There will always be a market for Austin Healey cars, it just won't be as =
big as it is today.&nbsp; Not being confrontational, I just see the writing=
 on the wall.Mike MacLean<br clear=3D"none"> <br clear=3D"none"><br clear=
=3D"none"><br clear=3D"none"> <br clear=3D"none"><br clear=3D"none"><br cle=
ar=3D"none"> <br clear=3D"none"></div><br><br></div> </blockquote> </div> <=
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From: Tom Felts <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 1 Aug 2016 8:53:27 -0400

No harm, no foul Mike.  I'm sure your Healey will be absolutely beautiful when it is completed.  Looks like you are doing it right.  Good looking /bug Eye also!  Motorcycle is very nice.  

I spent last winter pulling the engine out of my e-type and adding a 5 speed.  BEST change I ever made.  The joy these cars give us is worth all the effort and expense.

Cheers
tom

=============
Tom,     I'm sorry if it sounded like I was coming down on you.  Back in January my He

 

[email-masked]

---

From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 01 Aug 2016 16:54:20 -0500 (CDT)

Mike just look at it this way.  Instead of a walnut coffin you may have to settle for steel.
 
Keith

On 08/01/16, Michael MacLean wrote:

How is this not good news? Maybe the prices will come down from the stratosphere and more new enthusiasts can enjoy these cars. If they price themselves too high, who is going to buy them? With the aging demographic of Healey owners, you won't get new blood if the younger set can not afford to buy one. Do you own it as an investment or are you using it as intended, to drive the damn thing and have fun with it? Just my opinion after spending far more money than I should have on my BN2 restoration.
Mike MacLean

tom

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