Subject: Re: [Healeys] Oil pressure in a BJ8

From: richard mayor <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 1 Sep 2016 18:30:20 -0700

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Chris,

I hate to be negative about your good oil pressure but I fear you may have
a problem.  I am assuming that you have the "high pressure" oil pump from
DW.

Based upon that assumption, I can tell you that it is the rotary style of
pump that was used on the 100-6 engines. There were many problems with this
pump.  It has a very large capacity and as such it results in a lot of
friction, or back pressure in the system. Namely, it put stress on the
camshaft gear, the driving spindle gear, the timing chain and the camshaft
thrust plate.  This was a common problem with the early 100-6 motors.  One
fix was to machine an oil grove in one side of the the trust plate. Then an
oil groove on both sides. Then a bronze thrust plate with oil grooves.
Timing chains stretched.  Cam and driving spindle gears received excessive
wear.  That is why the switch was made to the gear style pump.

The rotary style of pump is actually a very good design. Nissan used it in
the Z car motors but it was 2/3rd the size of the Healey pump so there was
much less back pressure.

Many of us racers have used the DW "high pressure" oil pumps and discovered
that at some point, all of the teeth on the cam and driving spindles have
been ground off to such an extent that we have lost all oil pressure.  On a
shelf with my "offerings to the god of speed" I have a camshaft thrust
plate that has a groove that has been ground into it almost  1/8th of an
inch from the resistance of the oil pump forcing the camshaft into the
trust plate. I am sad to admit that it took me the loss of 2 race motors to
finally grasp why this was happening and before I switched back to the 3000
gear style pump .

Jeff Jonk did an excellent article about these pumps and the damage they
cause in the Healey Marque publication about 10 years ago.

Richard

On Tue, Aug 30, 2016 at 3:53 AM, Chris Dimmock <[email-masked]>
wrote:

> Hi all,
> Recently someone asked about oil pressures, and the oil being used.
>
> My BJ8 engine was totally rebuilt in 1998.
> Today, my wife and I went for a drive up the M1 motorway and I kept an eye
> on oil pressure. Water temp was 185 degrees all the time. Air temp was ~22
> degrees Celcius.
> Lovely day for a drive to the Hunter Valley!
>
> Hot idle. After 70 minutes at ~70 mph, idle @ 850 - 900rpm = 40 lbs.
> Oil pressure at 2,000 rpm hot driving = 50 lbs
> 3,000 - 5,000 rpm hot oil pressure = 60 lbs.
> My wife said we wouldn't make our 3rd wedding anniversary if I pulled
> 6,000 in overdrive top..... ;-)
> Denis Welch oil pump.
> Fresh Penrite HPR 40 oil and filter last weekend.
> Draw your own conclusions. Mine are:
> the thermostat is perfect, and
> so is the oil pressure relief valve.
> Best
> Chris
>
> _______________________________________________
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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div><div><div>Chris,<br><br></div>I hate to be negative a=
bout your good oil pressure but I fear you may have a problem.=C2=A0 I am a=
ssuming that you have the &quot;high pressure&quot; oil pump from DW.<br><b=
r>Based upon that assumption, I can tell you that it is the rotary style of=
 pump that was used on the 100-6 engines. There were many problems with thi=
s pump.=C2=A0 It has a very large capacity and as such it results in a lot =
of friction, or back pressure in the system. Namely, it put stress on the c=
amshaft gear, the driving spindle gear, the timing chain and the camshaft t=
hrust plate.=C2=A0 This was a common problem with the early 100-6 motors.=
=C2=A0 One fix was to machine an oil grove in one side of the the trust pla=
te. Then an oil groove on both sides. Then a bronze thrust plate with oil g=
rooves.=C2=A0 Timing chains stretched.=C2=A0 Cam and driving spindle gears =
received excessive wear.=C2=A0 That is why the switch was made to the gear =
style pump.<br><br>The rotary style of pump is actually a very good design.=
 Nissan used it in the Z car motors but it was 2/3rd the size of the Healey=
 pump so there was much less back pressure.=C2=A0 <br><br></div>Many of us =
racers have used the DW &quot;high pressure&quot; oil pumps and discovered =
that at some point, all of the teeth on the cam and driving spindles have b=
een ground off to such an extent that we have lost all oil pressure.=C2=A0 =
On a shelf with my &quot;offerings to the god of speed&quot; I have a camsh=
aft thrust plate that has a groove that has been ground into it almost=C2=
=A0 1/8th of an inch from the resistance of the oil pump forcing the camsha=
ft into the trust plate. I am sad to admit that it took me the loss of 2 ra=
ce motors to finally grasp why this was happening and before I switched bac=
k to the 3000 gear style pump .<br><br></div><div>Jeff Jonk did an excellen=
t article about these pumps and the damage they cause in the Healey Marque =
publication about 10 years ago.<br><br></div><div></div>Richard<br><div><di=
v><br><div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Tue, Au=
g 30, 2016 at 3:53 AM, Chris Dimmock <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailt=
o:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt=
;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 =
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">Hi all,<br>
Recently someone asked about oil pressures, and the oil being used.<br>
<br>
My BJ8 engine was totally rebuilt in 1998.<br>
Today, my wife and I went for a drive up the M1 motorway and I kept an eye =
on oil pressure. Water temp was 185 degrees all the time. Air temp was ~22 =
degrees Celcius.<br>
Lovely day for a drive to the Hunter Valley!<br>
<br>
Hot idle. After 70 minutes at ~70 mph, idle @ 850 - 900rpm =3D 40 lbs.<br>
Oil pressure at 2,000 rpm hot driving =3D 50 lbs<br>
3,000 - 5,000 rpm hot oil pressure =3D 60 lbs.<br>
My wife said we wouldn&#39;t make our 3rd wedding anniversary if I pulled 6=
,000 in overdrive top..... ;-)<br>
Denis Welch oil pump.<br>
Fresh Penrite HPR 40 oil and filter last weekend.<br>
Draw your own conclusions. Mine are:<br>
the thermostat is perfect, and<br>
so is the oil pressure relief valve.<br>
Best<br>
Chris<br>
<br>
______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>
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Forums: <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/forums" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D=
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<br>
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eam.net</a><br>
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r" target=3D"_blank">http://autox.team.net/mailman/<wbr>listinfo/healeys</a=
><br>
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team.net/mailman/<wbr>options/healeys/boyracer466@gm<wbr>ail.com</a><br>
<br>
</blockquote></div><br></div></div></div></div></div>

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_______________________________________________
Archive: http://www.team.net/archive

[email-masked]
http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/healeys

--001a114476f216c562053b7c4671--

---

From: Chris Dimmock <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 2 Sep 2016 20:04:01 +1000

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Hi Richard,
Yes, I am running the DW rotary pump. And Penrite HPR 40 oil. I know the Pen=
rite HPR is a big chunk of the good oil pressure answer, from my testing of 4=
 or 5 different oils over the past 18 years on this engine.=20
Happy to explain my experience of the oil pump differences, in probably more=
 detail than required, but first can I ask you two questions?
1. How many teeth are on the camshaft oil pump gear drive, of the camshafts w=
here you had this failure? 12 or 13?
2. How hard did you rev these engines? Over 6,000rpm or not?
Best
Chris

> On 2 Sep 2016, at 11:30 AM, richard mayor <[email-masked]> wrote:
>=20
> Chris,
>=20
> I hate to be negative about your good oil pressure but I fear you may have=
 a problem.  I am assuming that you have the "high pressure" oil pump from D=
W.
>=20
> Based upon that assumption, I can tell you that it is the rotary style of p=
ump that was used on the 100-6 engines. There were many problems with this p=
ump.  It has a very large capacity and as such it results in a lot of fricti=
on, or back pressure in the system. Namely, it put stress on the camshaft ge=
ar, the driving spindle gear, the timing chain and the camshaft thrust plate=
.  This was a common problem with the early 100-6 motors.  One fix was to ma=
chine an oil grove in one side of the the trust plate. Then an oil groove on=
 both sides. Then a bronze thrust plate with oil grooves.  Timing chains str=
etched.  Cam and driving spindle gears received excessive wear.  That is why=
 the switch was made to the gear style pump.
>=20
> The rotary style of pump is actually a very good design. Nissan used it in=
 the Z car motors but it was 2/3rd the size of the Healey pump so there was m=
uch less back pressure. =20
>=20
> Many of us racers have used the DW "high pressure" oil pumps and discovere=
d that at some point, all of the teeth on the cam and driving spindles have b=
een ground off to such an extent that we have lost all oil pressure.  On a s=
helf with my "offerings to the god of speed" I have a camshaft thrust plate t=
hat has a groove that has been ground into it almost  1/8th of an inch from t=
he resistance of the oil pump forcing the camshaft into the trust plate. I a=
m sad to admit that it took me the loss of 2 race motors to finally grasp wh=
y this was happening and before I switched back to the 3000 gear style pump .=

>=20
> Jeff Jonk did an excellent article about these pumps and the damage they c=
ause in the Healey Marque publication about 10 years ago.
>=20
> Richard
>=20
>> On Tue, Aug 30, 2016 at 3:53 AM, Chris Dimmock <[email-masked]> w=
rote:
>>=20

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<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"content-type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3D=
utf-8"></head><body dir=3D"auto"><div>Hi Richard,</div><div>Yes, I am runnin=
g the DW rotary pump. And Penrite HPR 40 oil. I know the Penrite HPR is a bi=
g chunk of the good oil pressure answer, from my testing of 4 or 5 different=
 oils over the past 18 years on this engine.&nbsp;</div><div>Happy to explai=
n my experience of the oil pump differences, in probably more detail than re=
quired, but first can I ask you two questions?</div><div>1. How many teeth a=
re on the camshaft oil pump gear drive, of the camshafts where you had this f=
ailure? 12 or 13?</div><div>2. How hard did you rev these engines? Over 6,00=
0rpm or not?</div><div>Best</div><div>Chris</div><div><br>On 2 Sep 2016, at 1=
1:30 AM, richard mayor &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">boyracer=
[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:<br><br></div><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div><di=
v dir=3D"ltr"><div><div><div>Chris,<br><br></div>I hate to be negative about=
 your good oil pressure but I fear you may have a problem.&nbsp; I am assumi=
ng that you have the "high pressure" oil pump from DW.<br><br>Based upon tha=
t assumption, I can tell you that it is the rotary style of pump that was us=
ed on the 100-6 engines. There were many problems with this pump.&nbsp; It h=
as a very large capacity and as such it results in a lot of friction, or bac=
k pressure in the system. Namely, it put stress on the camshaft gear, the dr=
iving spindle gear, the timing chain and the camshaft thrust plate.&nbsp; Th=
is was a common problem with the early 100-6 motors.&nbsp; One fix was to ma=
chine an oil grove in one side of the the trust plate. Then an oil groove on=
 both sides. Then a bronze thrust plate with oil grooves.&nbsp; Timing chain=
s stretched.&nbsp; Cam and driving spindle gears received excessive wear.&nb=
sp; That is why the switch was made to the gear style pump.<br><br>The rotar=
y style of pump is actually a very good design. Nissan used it in the Z car m=
otors but it was 2/3rd the size of the Healey pump so there was much less ba=
ck pressure.&nbsp; <br><br></div>Many of us racers have used the DW "high pr=
essure" oil pumps and discovered that at some point, all of the teeth on the=
 cam and driving spindles have been ground off to such an extent that we hav=
e lost all oil pressure.&nbsp; On a shelf with my "offerings to the god of s=
peed" I have a camshaft thrust plate that has a groove that has been ground i=
nto it almost&nbsp; 1/8th of an inch from the resistance of the oil pump for=
cing the camshaft into the trust plate. I am sad to admit that it took me th=
e loss of 2 race motors to finally grasp why this was happening and before I=
 switched back to the 3000 gear style pump .<br><br></div><div>Jeff Jonk did=
 an excellent article about these pumps and the damage they cause in the Hea=
ley Marque publication about 10 years ago.<br><br></div><div></div>Richard<b=
r><div><div><br><div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><div class=3D"gmail_quote">O=
n Tue, Aug 30, 2016 at 3:53 AM, Chris Dimmock <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D=
"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</=
a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0=
 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">Hi all,<br>
Recently someone asked about oil pressures, and the oil being used.<br><br><=
/blockquote></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></blockquote></body></=
html>=

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[email-masked]

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From: Bob Spidell <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 2 Sep 2016 04:46:34 -0700

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Richard,

DW sells the rotary pump specifically for engines that mostly run at 
relatively low revs (i.e. street/touring cars); and the gear pump for 
engines that run at higher revs (i.e. racers).  DP you think the gear 
pump can be a problem in engines that rarely run over, say, 4,000RPM?  I 
can't believe the DW people aren't aware of the backpressure issue.

I might be buying a new pump soon.

Bob

On 9/1/2016 6:30 PM, richard mayor wrote:
> Chris,
>
> I hate to be negative about your good oil pressure but I fear you may 
> have a problem.  I am assuming that you have the "high pressure" oil 
> pump from DW.
>
> Based upon that assumption, I can tell you that it is the rotary style 
> of pump that was used on the 100-6 engines. There were many problems 
> with this pump.  It has a very large capacity and as such it results 
> in a lot of friction, or back pressure in the system. Namely, it put 
> stress on the camshaft gear, the driving spindle gear, the timing 
> chain and the camshaft thrust plate.  This was a common problem with 
> the early 100-6 motors.  One fix was to machine an oil grove in one 
> side of the the trust plate. Then an oil groove on both sides. Then a 
> bronze thrust plate with oil grooves. Timing chains stretched.  Cam 
> and driving spindle gears received excessive wear.  That is why the 
> switch was made to the gear style pump.
>
> The rotary style of pump is actually a very good design. Nissan used 
> it in the Z car motors but it was 2/3rd the size of the Healey pump so 
> there was much less back pressure.
>
> Many of us racers have used the DW "high pressure" oil pumps and 
> discovered that at some point, all of the teeth on the cam and driving 
> spindles have been ground off to such an extent that we have lost all 
> oil pressure.  On a shelf with my "offerings to the god of speed" I 
> have a camshaft thrust plate that has a groove that has been ground 
> into it almost  1/8th of an inch from the resistance of the oil pump 
> forcing the camshaft into the trust plate. I am sad to admit that it 
> took me the loss of 2 race motors to finally grasp why this was 
> happening and before I switched back to the 3000 gear style pump .
>
> Jeff Jonk did an excellent article about these pumps and the damage 
> they cause in the Healey Marque publication about 10 years ago.
>
> Richard
>
> On Tue, Aug 30, 2016 at 3:53 AM, Chris Dimmock 
>
>     Hi all,
>     Today, my wife and I went for a drive up the M1 motorway and I
>     kept an eye on oil pressure. Water temp was 185 degrees all the
>     time. Air temp was ~22 degrees Celcius.
>     My wife said we wouldn't make our 3rd wedding anniversary if I
>     pulled 6,000 in overdrive top..... ;-)
>     Denis Welch oil pump.

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<html>
  <head>
    <meta content="text/html; charset=windows-1252"
      http-equiv="Content-Type">
  </head>
  <body bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000">
    <p>Richard,</p>
    <p>DW sells the rotary pump specifically for engines that mostly run
      at relatively low revs (i.e. street/touring cars); and the gear
      pump for engines that run at higher revs (i.e. racers).  DP you
      think the gear pump can be a problem in engines that rarely run
      over, say, 4,000RPM?  I can't believe the DW people aren't aware
      of the backpressure issue.<br>
    </p>
    <p>I might be buying a new pump soon.<br>
    </p>
    <p>Bob<br>
    </p>
    <br>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 9/1/2016 6:30 PM, richard mayor
      wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote
cite="mid:[email-masked]"
      type="cite">
      <div dir="ltr">
        <div>
          <div>
            <div>Chris,<br>
              <br>
            </div>
            I hate to be negative about your good oil pressure but I
            fear you may have a problem.  I am assuming that you have
            the "high pressure" oil pump from DW.<br>
            <br>
            Based upon that assumption, I can tell you that it is the
            rotary style of pump that was used on the 100-6 engines.
            There were many problems with this pump.  It has a very
            large capacity and as such it results in a lot of friction,
            or back pressure in the system. Namely, it put stress on the
            camshaft gear, the driving spindle gear, the timing chain
            and the camshaft thrust plate.  This was a common problem
            with the early 100-6 motors.  One fix was to machine an oil
            grove in one side of the the trust plate. Then an oil groove
            on both sides. Then a bronze thrust plate with oil grooves. 
            Timing chains stretched.  Cam and driving spindle gears
            received excessive wear.  That is why the switch was made to
            the gear style pump.<br>
            <br>
            The rotary style of pump is actually a very good design.
            Nissan used it in the Z car motors but it was 2/3rd the size
            of the Healey pump so there was much less back pressure.  <br>
            <br>
          </div>
          Many of us racers have used the DW "high pressure" oil pumps
          and discovered that at some point, all of the teeth on the cam
          and driving spindles have been ground off to such an extent
          that we have lost all oil pressure.  On a shelf with my
          "offerings to the god of speed" I have a camshaft thrust plate
          that has a groove that has been ground into it almost  1/8th
          of an inch from the resistance of the oil pump forcing the
          camshaft into the trust plate. I am sad to admit that it took
          me the loss of 2 race motors to finally grasp why this was
          happening and before I switched back to the 3000 gear style
          pump .<br>
          <br>
        </div>
        <div>Jeff Jonk did an excellent article about these pumps and
          the damage they cause in the Healey Marque publication about
          10 years ago.<br>
          <br>
        </div>
        Richard<br>
        <div>
          <div><br>
            <div>
              <div class="gmail_extra">
                <div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, Aug 30, 2016 at 3:53
                  AM, Chris Dimmock <span dir="ltr">&lt;<a
                      moz-do-not-send="true"
                      href="mailto:[email-masked]"
                      target="_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt;</span>
                  wrote:<br>
                  <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
                    .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">Hi
                    all,<br>
                    Recently someone asked about oil pressures, and the
                    oil being used.<br>
                    <br>
                    My BJ8 engine was totally rebuilt in 1998.<br>
                    Today, my wife and I went for a drive up the M1
                    motorway and I kept an eye on oil pressure. Water
                    temp was 185 degrees all the time. Air temp was ~22
                    degrees Celcius.<br>
                    Lovely day for a drive to the Hunter Valley!<br>
                    <br>
                    Hot idle. After 70 minutes at ~70 mph, idle @ 850 -
                    900rpm = 40 lbs.<br>
                    Oil pressure at 2,000 rpm hot driving = 50 lbs<br>
                    3,000 - 5,000 rpm hot oil pressure = 60 lbs.<br>
                    My wife said we wouldn't make our 3rd wedding
                    anniversary if I pulled 6,000 in overdrive top.....
                    ;-)<br>
                    Denis Welch oil pump.<br>
                    Fresh Penrite HPR 40 oil and filter last weekend.<br>
                    Draw your own conclusions. Mine are:<br>
                    the thermostat is perfect, and<br>
                    so is the oil pressure relief valve.<br>
                    Best<br>
                    Chris</blockquote>
                </div>
              </div>
            </div>
          </div>
        </div>
      </div>
      <pre wrap="">
</pre>
    </blockquote>
    <br>
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[email-masked]

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---

From: Michael Salter <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 2 Sep 2016 08:36:56 -0400

--===============3698042921845235178==

--001a11400ee604a067053b8596a1

Hi Richard, thank you so much for your post it solved for me a longstanding
Healey mystery!!
In the early '80s we had an elderly customer bring in a low mileage BN4
that had lost all oil pressure.
We found exactly the symptoms that you describe but I never knew the the
cause..
As I recall we installed a new cam and oil pump to resolve the problem but
I had always wondered why it had happened to this carefully driven low
mileage engine..
I'll sleep better tonight :-)
Michael S
BN1 #174

On Thu, Sep 1, 2016 at 9:30 PM, richard mayor <[email-masked]> wrote:

> spindles have been ground off to such an extent that we have lost all oil
> pressure.  On a shelf with my "offerings to the god of speed" I have a
> camshaft thrust plate that has a groove that has been ground into it
> almost  1/8th of an inch from the resistance of the oil pump forcing the
> camshaft into the trust plate. I am sad to admit that it took me the loss
> of 2 race motors to finally grasp why this was happening and before I
> switched back to the 3000 gear style pump .
>
>> Today, my wife and I went for a drive up the M1 motorway and I kept an
>> eye on oil pressure. Water temp was 185 degrees all the time. Air temp was
>> ~22 degrees Celcius.
> options/healeys/[email-masked]
>
>
>

-- 
*If you can't fix it with a hammer, you've got an electrical problem.*

--001a11400ee604a067053b8596a1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:comic sa=
ns ms,sans-serif;font-size:small">Hi Richard, thank you so much for your po=
st it solved for me a longstanding Healey mystery!!<br></div><div class=3D"=
gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:comic sans ms,sans-serif;font-size:smal=
l">In the early &#39;80s we had an elderly customer bring in a low mileage =
BN4 that had lost all oil pressure. <br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" =
style=3D"font-family:comic sans ms,sans-serif;font-size:small">We found exa=
ctly the symptoms that you describe but I never knew the the cause.. <br></=
div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:comic sans ms,sans-se=
rif;font-size:small">As I recall we installed a new cam and oil pump to res=
olve the problem but I had always wondered why it had happened to this care=
fully driven low mileage engine..<br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" sty=
le=3D"font-family:comic sans ms,sans-serif;font-size:small">I&#39;ll sleep =
better tonight :-)<br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-fami=
ly:comic sans ms,sans-serif;font-size:small">Michael S<br></div><div class=
=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:comic sans ms,sans-serif;font-size:=
small">BN1 #174<br></div></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D=
"gmail_quote">On Thu, Sep 1, 2016 at 9:30 PM, richard mayor <span dir=3D"lt=
r">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">boyracer4=
[email-masked]</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" sty=
le=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div d=
ir=3D"ltr"><div><div><div>Chris,<br><br></div>I hate to be negative about y=
our good oil pressure but I fear you may have a problem.=C2=A0 I am assumin=
g that you have the &quot;high pressure&quot; oil pump from DW.<br><br>Base=
d upon that assumption, I can tell you that it is the rotary style of pump =
that was used on the 100-6 engines. There were many problems with this pump=
.=C2=A0 It has a very large capacity and as such it results in a lot of fri=
ction, or back pressure in the system. Namely, it put stress on the camshaf=
t gear, the driving spindle gear, the timing chain and the camshaft thrust =
plate.=C2=A0 This was a common problem with the early 100-6 motors.=C2=A0 O=
ne fix was to machine an oil grove in one side of the the trust plate. Then=
 an oil groove on both sides. Then a bronze thrust plate with oil grooves.=
=C2=A0 Timing chains stretched.=C2=A0 Cam and driving spindle gears receive=
d excessive wear.=C2=A0 That is why the switch was made to the gear style p=
ump.<br><br>The rotary style of pump is actually a very good design. Nissan=
 used it in the Z car motors but it was 2/3rd the size of the Healey pump s=
o there was much less back pressure.=C2=A0 <br><br></div>Many of us racers =
have used the DW &quot;high pressure&quot; oil pumps and discovered that at=
 some point, all of the teeth on the cam and driving spindles have been gro=
und off to such an extent that we have lost all oil pressure.=C2=A0 On a sh=
elf with my &quot;offerings to the god of speed&quot; I have a camshaft thr=
ust plate that has a groove that has been ground into it almost=C2=A0 1/8th=
 of an inch from the resistance of the oil pump forcing the camshaft into t=
he trust plate. I am sad to admit that it took me the loss of 2 race motors=
 to finally grasp why this was happening and before I switched back to the =
3000 gear style pump .<br><br></div><div>Jeff Jonk did an excellent article=
 about these pumps and the damage they cause in the Healey Marque publicati=
on about 10 years ago.<br><br></div><div></div>Richard<br><div><div><br><di=
v><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><span class=3D"">On=
 Tue, Aug 30, 2016 at 3:53 AM, Chris Dimmock <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=
=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]=
om</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br></span><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=
=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><span cl=
ass=3D"">Hi all,<br>
Recently someone asked about oil pressures, and the oil being used.<br>
<br>
My BJ8 engine was totally rebuilt in 1998.<br>
Today, my wife and I went for a drive up the M1 motorway and I kept an eye =
on oil pressure. Water temp was 185 degrees all the time. Air temp was ~22 =
degrees Celcius.<br>
Lovely day for a drive to the Hunter Valley!<br>
<br>
Hot idle. After 70 minutes at ~70 mph, idle @ 850 - 900rpm =3D 40 lbs.<br>
Oil pressure at 2,000 rpm hot driving =3D 50 lbs<br>
3,000 - 5,000 rpm hot oil pressure =3D 60 lbs.<br>
My wife said we wouldn&#39;t make our 3rd wedding anniversary if I pulled 6=
,000 in overdrive top..... ;-)<br>
Denis Welch oil pump.<br>
Fresh Penrite HPR 40 oil and filter last weekend.<br>
Draw your own conclusions. Mine are:<br>
the thermostat is perfect, and<br>
so is the oil pressure relief valve.<br>
Best<br>
Chris<br>
<br>
______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>
rer" target=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/donate.htm<wbr>l</a><br>
Archive: <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/archive" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=
=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/archive</a><br>
Forums: <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/forums" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D=
"_blank">http://www.team.net/forums</a><br>
<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]=
eam.net</a><br>
<a href=3D"http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/healeys" rel=3D"noreferre=
r" target=3D"_blank">http://autox.team.net/mailman/<wbr>listinfo/healeys</a=
><br>
<br></span>
s/[email-masked]" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">http://autox.=
team.net/mailman/<wbr>options/healeys/boyracer466@gm<wbr>ail.com</a><br>
<br>
</blockquote></div><br></div></div></div></div></div>
<br>______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>
rer" target=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/donate.<wbr>html</a><br>
Archive: <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/archive" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=
=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/archive</a><br>
Forums: <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/forums" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D=
"_blank">http://www.team.net/forums</a><br>
<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a><br>
<a href=3D"http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/healeys" rel=3D"noreferre=
r" target=3D"_blank">http://autox.team.net/mailman/<wbr>listinfo/healeys</a=
><br>
<br>
s/[email-masked]" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">http://auto=
x.team.net/mailman/<wbr>options/healeys/michaelsalter@<wbr>gmail.com</a><br=
<br>
<br></blockquote></div><br><br clear=3D"all"><br>-- <br><div class=3D"gmail=
_signature" data-smartmail=3D"gmail_signature"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div><div d=
ir=3D"ltr"><i><font size=3D"2"><span style=3D"color:black">If you can&#39;t=
 fix it with a hammer, you&#39;ve got an electrical problem.</span></font><=
/i><br><br><div></div><div></div><div></div></div></div></div></div>
</div>

--001a11400ee604a067053b8596a1--

--===============3698042921845235178==
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Disposition: inline

[email-masked]

--===============3698042921845235178==--

---

From: Stephen Hutchings <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 2 Sep 2016 13:35:21 +0000 (UTC)

--===============2106367102653588728==
	boundary="----=_Part_317922_1970027596.1472823321069"

------=_Part_317922_1970027596.1472823321069
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

With this pool of collected stories and knowledge at our fingertips, we ALL=
 end up sleeping better!
Stephen, BJ8

      From: Michael Salter <[email-masked]>
 To: richard mayor <[email-masked]>=20
Cc: healeys <[email-masked]>
 Sent: Friday, September 2, 2016 8:36 AM
 Subject: Re: [Healeys] Oil pressure in a BJ8
  =20
Hi Richard, thank you so much for your post it solved for me a longstanding=
 Healey mystery!!
In the early '80s we had an elderly customer bring in a low mileage BN4 tha=
t had lost all oil pressure.=20
We found exactly the symptoms that you describe but I never knew the the ca=
use..=20
As I recall we installed a new cam and oil pump to resolve the problem but =
I had always wondered why it had happened to this carefully driven low mile=
age engine..
I'll sleep better tonight :-)
Michael S
BN1 #174

On Thu, Sep 1, 2016 at 9:30 PM, richard mayor <[email-masked]> wrote=
:

Chris,

I hate to be negative about your good oil pressure but I fear you may have =
a problem.=C2=A0 I am assuming that you have the "high pressure" oil pump f=
rom DW.

Based upon that assumption, I can tell you that it is the rotary style of p=
ump that was used on the 100-6 engines. There were many problems with this =
pump.=C2=A0 It has a very large capacity and as such it results in a lot of=
 friction, or back pressure in the system. Namely, it put stress on the cam=
shaft gear, the driving spindle gear, the timing chain and the camshaft thr=
ust plate.=C2=A0 This was a common problem with the early 100-6 motors.=C2=
=A0 One fix was to machine an oil grove in one side of the the trust plate.=
 Then an oil groove on both sides. Then a bronze thrust plate with oil groo=
ves.=C2=A0 Timing chains stretched.=C2=A0 Cam and driving spindle gears rec=
eived excessive wear.=C2=A0 That is why the switch was made to the gear sty=
le pump.

The rotary style of pump is actually a very good design. Nissan used it in =
the Z car motors but it was 2/3rd the size of the Healey pump so there was =
much less back pressure.=C2=A0=20

Many of us racers have used the DW "high pressure" oil pumps and discovered=
 that at some point, all of the teeth on the cam and driving spindles have =
been ground off to such an extent that we have lost all oil pressure.=C2=A0=
 On a shelf with my "offerings to the god of speed" I have a camshaft thrus=
t plate that has a groove that has been ground into it almost=C2=A0 1/8th o=
f an inch from the resistance of the oil pump forcing the camshaft into the=
 trust plate. I am sad to admit that it took me the loss of 2 race motors t=
o finally grasp why this was happening and before I switched back to the 30=
00 gear style pump .

Jeff Jonk did an excellent article about these pumps and the damage they ca=
use in the Healey Marque publication about 10 years ago.

Richard

On Tue, Aug 30, 2016 at 3:53 AM, Chris Dimmock <[email-masked]> wr=
ote:

Hi all,

Hot idle. After 70 minutes at ~70 mph, idle @ 850 - 900rpm =3D 40 lbs.
Oil pressure at 2,000 rpm hot driving =3D 50 lbs
3,000 - 5,000 rpm hot oil pressure =3D 60 lbs.
My wife said we wouldn't make our 3rd wedding anniversary if I pulled 6,000=
 in overdrive top..... ;-)
Denis Welch oil pump.
Fresh Penrite HPR 40 oil and filter last weekend.
Draw your own conclusions. Mine are:
the thermostat is perfect, and
so is the oil pressure relief valve.
Best
Chris

______________________________ _________________
Archive: http://www.team.net/archive

[email-masked]
http://autox.team.net/mailman/ listinfo/healeys

466@gm ail.com

______________________________ _________________
Archive: http://www.team.net/archive

[email-masked]
http://autox.team.net/mailman/ listinfo/healeys

alter@ gmail.com

--=20
If you can't fix it with a hammer, you've got an electrical problem.

[email-masked]

[email-masked]

  =20
------=_Part_317922_1970027596.1472823321069
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<html><head></head><body><div style=3D"color:#000; background-color:#fff; f=
ont-family:HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, =
sans-serif;font-size:16px"><div id=3D"yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1472822765182_9547"=
>With this pool of collected stories and knowledge at our fingertips, we AL=
L end up sleeping better!</div><div id=3D"yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1472822765182_9=
548"><br></div><div id=3D"yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1472822765182_9549">Stephen, BJ=
8<br></div><div id=3D"yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1472822765182_9336"><span></span></=
div><div id=3D"yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1472822765182_9337" class=3D"qtdSeparateBR=
"><br><br></div><div style=3D"display: block;" id=3D"yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1472=
822765182_9553" class=3D"yahoo_quoted">  <div id=3D"yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_14728=
22765182_9552" style=3D"font-family: HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helveti=
ca, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif; font-size: 16px;"> <div id=3D"yui_3_1=
6_0_ym19_1_1472822765182_9551" style=3D"font-family: HelveticaNeue, Helveti=
ca Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif; font-size: 16px;"> <d=
iv id=3D"yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1472822765182_9550" dir=3D"ltr"> <font id=3D"yui=
_3_16_0_ym19_1_1472822765182_9554" face=3D"Arial" size=3D"2"> <hr size=3D"1=
"> <b><span style=3D"font-weight:bold;">From:</span></b> Michael Salter &lt=
;[email-masked]&gt;<br> <b><span style=3D"font-weight: bold;">To:<=
/span></b> richard mayor &lt;[email-masked]&gt; <br><b><span style=
=3D"font-weight: bold;">Cc:</span></b> healeys &lt;[email-masked]&g=
t;<br> <b><span style=3D"font-weight: bold;">Sent:</span></b> Friday, Septe=
mber 2, 2016 8:36 AM<br> <b><span style=3D"font-weight: bold;">Subject:</sp=
an></b> Re: [Healeys] Oil pressure in a BJ8<br> </font> </div> <div id=3D"y=
ui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1472822765182_9555" class=3D"y_msg_container"><br><div id=
=3D"yiv6123007469"><div id=3D"yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1472822765182_9558"><div id=
=3D"yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1472822765182_9557" dir=3D"ltr"><div id=3D"yui_3_16_0=
_ym19_1_1472822765182_9556" class=3D"yiv6123007469gmail_default" style=3D"f=
ont-family:comic sans ms, sans-serif;font-size:small;">Hi Richard, thank yo=
u so much for your post it solved for me a longstanding Healey mystery!!<br=
 clear=3D"none"></div><div class=3D"yiv6123007469gmail_default" style=3D"fo=
nt-family:comic sans ms, sans-serif;font-size:small;">In the early '80s we =
had an elderly customer bring in a low mileage BN4 that had lost all oil pr=
essure. <br clear=3D"none"></div><div id=3D"yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1472822765182=
_9559" class=3D"yiv6123007469gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:comic sans=
 ms, sans-serif;font-size:small;">We found exactly the symptoms that you de=
scribe but I never knew the the cause.. <br clear=3D"none"></div><div id=3D=
"yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1472822765182_9560" class=3D"yiv6123007469gmail_default"=
 style=3D"font-family:comic sans ms, sans-serif;font-size:small;">As I reca=
ll we installed a new cam and oil pump to resolve the problem but I had alw=
ays wondered why it had happened to this carefully driven low mileage engin=
e..<br clear=3D"none"></div><div id=3D"yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1472822765182_9561=
" class=3D"yiv6123007469gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:comic sans ms, =
sans-serif;font-size:small;">I'll sleep better tonight :-)<br clear=3D"none=
"></div><div id=3D"yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1472822765182_9562" class=3D"yiv612300=
7469gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:comic sans ms, sans-serif;font-size=
:small;">Michael S<br clear=3D"none"></div><div id=3D"yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_147=
2822765182_9563" class=3D"yiv6123007469gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:=
comic sans ms, sans-serif;font-size:small;">BN1 #174<br clear=3D"none"></di=
v></div><div id=3D"yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1472822765182_9564" class=3D"yiv612300=
7469gmail_extra"><br clear=3D"none"><div id=3D"yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1472822765=
182_9565" class=3D"yiv6123007469gmail_quote">On Thu, Sep 1, 2016 at 9:30 PM=
, richard mayor <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a rel=3D"nofollow" shape=3D"rect" ym=
ailto=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank" href=3D"mailto:boy=
[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br clear=3D=
"none"><blockquote id=3D"yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1472822765182_9570" class=3D"yiv=
6123007469gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc soli=
d;padding-left:1ex;"><div class=3D"yiv6123007469yqt0239697204" id=3D"yiv612=
3007469yqt88292"><div id=3D"yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1472822765182_9569" dir=3D"lt=
r"><div id=3D"yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1472822765182_9568"><div id=3D"yui_3_16_0_y=
m19_1_1472822765182_9567"><div id=3D"yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1472822765182_9566">=
Chris,<br clear=3D"none"><br clear=3D"none"></div>I hate to be negative abo=
ut your good oil pressure but I fear you may have a problem.&nbsp; I am ass=
uming that you have the "high pressure" oil pump from DW.<br clear=3D"none"=
><br clear=3D"none">Based upon that assumption, I can tell you that it is t=
he rotary style of pump that was used on the 100-6 engines. There were many=
 problems with this pump.&nbsp; It has a very large capacity and as such it=
 results in a lot of friction, or back pressure in the system. Namely, it p=
ut stress on the camshaft gear, the driving spindle gear, the timing chain =
and the camshaft thrust plate.&nbsp; This was a common problem with the ear=
ly 100-6 motors.&nbsp; One fix was to machine an oil grove in one side of t=
he the trust plate. Then an oil groove on both sides. Then a bronze thrust =
plate with oil grooves.&nbsp; Timing chains stretched.&nbsp; Cam and drivin=
g spindle gears received excessive wear.&nbsp; That is why the switch was m=
ade to the gear style pump.<br clear=3D"none"><br clear=3D"none">The rotary=
 style of pump is actually a very good design. Nissan used it in the Z car =
motors but it was 2/3rd the size of the Healey pump so there was much less =
back pressure.&nbsp; <br clear=3D"none"><br clear=3D"none"></div>Many of us=
 racers have used the DW "high pressure" oil pumps and discovered that at s=
ome point, all of the teeth on the cam and driving spindles have been groun=
d off to such an extent that we have lost all oil pressure.&nbsp; On a shel=
f with my "offerings to the god of speed" I have a camshaft thrust plate th=
at has a groove that has been ground into it almost&nbsp; 1/8th of an inch =
from the resistance of the oil pump forcing the camshaft into the trust pla=
te. I am sad to admit that it took me the loss of 2 race motors to finally =
grasp why this was happening and before I switched back to the 3000 gear st=
yle pump .<br clear=3D"none"><br clear=3D"none"></div><div>Jeff Jonk did an=
 excellent article about these pumps and the damage they cause in the Heale=
y Marque publication about 10 years ago.<br clear=3D"none"><br clear=3D"non=
e"></div><div></div>Richard<br clear=3D"none"><div><div><br clear=3D"none">=
<div><div class=3D"yiv6123007469gmail_extra"><div class=3D"yiv6123007469gma=
il_quote"><span class=3D"yiv6123007469">On Tue, Aug 30, 2016 at 3:53 AM, Ch=
ris Dimmock <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a rel=3D"nofollow" shape=3D"rect" ymailt=
o=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank" href=3D"mailto:austi=
[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br clear=
=3D"none"></span><blockquote class=3D"yiv6123007469gmail_quote" style=3D"ma=
rgin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;"><span class=
=3D"yiv6123007469">Hi all,<br clear=3D"none">
Recently someone asked about oil pressures, and the oil being used.<br clea=
r=3D"none">
<br clear=3D"none">
My BJ8 engine was totally rebuilt in 1998.<br clear=3D"none">
Today, my wife and I went for a drive up the M1 motorway and I kept an eye =
on oil pressure. Water temp was 185 degrees all the time. Air temp was ~22 =
degrees Celcius.<br clear=3D"none">
Lovely day for a drive to the Hunter Valley!<br clear=3D"none">
<br clear=3D"none">
Hot idle. After 70 minutes at ~70 mph, idle @ 850 - 900rpm =3D 40 lbs.<br c=
lear=3D"none">
Oil pressure at 2,000 rpm hot driving =3D 50 lbs<br clear=3D"none">
3,000 - 5,000 rpm hot oil pressure =3D 60 lbs.<br clear=3D"none">
My wife said we wouldn't make our 3rd wedding anniversary if I pulled 6,000=
 in overdrive top..... ;-)<br clear=3D"none">
Denis Welch oil pump.<br clear=3D"none">
Fresh Penrite HPR 40 oil and filter last weekend.<br clear=3D"none">
Draw your own conclusions. Mine are:<br clear=3D"none">
the thermostat is perfect, and<br clear=3D"none">
so is the oil pressure relief valve.<br clear=3D"none">
Best<br clear=3D"none">
Chris<br clear=3D"none">
<br clear=3D"none">
______________________________ _________________<br clear=3D"none">
=3D"http://www.team.net/donate.html">http://www.team.net/donate.htm l</a><b=
r clear=3D"none">
Archive: <a rel=3D"nofollow" shape=3D"rect" target=3D"_blank" href=3D"http:=
//www.team.net/archive">http://www.team.net/archive</a><br clear=3D"none">
Forums: <a rel=3D"nofollow" shape=3D"rect" target=3D"_blank" href=3D"http:/=
/www.team.net/forums">http://www.team.net/forums</a><br clear=3D"none">
<br clear=3D"none">
<a rel=3D"nofollow" shape=3D"rect" ymailto=3D"mailto:[email-masked]=
" target=3D"_blank" href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]=
am.net</a><br clear=3D"none">
<a rel=3D"nofollow" shape=3D"rect" target=3D"_blank" href=3D"http://autox.t=
eam.net/mailman/listinfo/healeys">http://autox.team.net/mailman/ listinfo/h=
ealeys</a><br clear=3D"none">
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ef=3D"http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/healeys/[email-masked]">=
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[email-masked]

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---

From: richard mayor <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 2 Sep 2016 17:37:12 -0700

--===============5224079779839579192==

--001a114476f2e861f4053b8fa5e9

DW used to advertise that the rotary style pump was good to 6000 RPM but
higher reving engines should use the gear style.

All I can say is .... don't you believe it!!!!

My question to you is why would you want to use a component from a 100-6
engine that has caused so many problems?  No one ever lost an engine
because of the gear style pump.

On Fri, Sep 2, 2016 at 4:46 AM, Bob Spidell <[email-masked]> wrote:

> engines that run at higher revs (i.e. racers).  DP you think the gear pump
> can be a problem in engines that rarely run over, say, 4,000RPM?  I can't
> believe the DW people aren't aware of the backpressure issue.
>

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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div>DW used to advertise that the rotary style pump was g=
ood to 6000 RPM but higher reving engines should use the gear style.=C2=A0 =
<br><br>All I can say is .... don&#39;t you believe it!!!!<br><br></div>My =
question to you is why would you want to use a component from a 100-6 engin=
e that has caused so many problems?=C2=A0 No one ever lost an engine becaus=
e of the gear style pump.<br></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div clas=
s=3D"gmail_quote">On Fri, Sep 2, 2016 at 4:46 AM, Bob Spidell <span dir=3D"=
ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">bspidell=
@comcast.net</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" sty=
le=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
 =20
   =20
 =20
  <div bgcolor=3D"#FFFFFF" text=3D"#000000">
    <p>Richard,</p>
    <p>DW sells the rotary pump specifically for engines that mostly run
      at relatively low revs (i.e. street/touring cars); and the gear
      pump for engines that run at higher revs (i.e. racers).=C2=A0 DP you
      think the gear pump can be a problem in engines that rarely run
      over, say, 4,000RPM?=C2=A0 I can&#39;t believe the DW people aren&#39=
;t aware
      of the backpressure issue.<br>
    </p>
    <p>I might be buying a new pump soon.<br>
    </p>
    <p>Bob<br>
    </p>
    <br>
    <div>On 9/1/2016 6:30 PM, richard mayor
      wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote type=3D"cite">
      <div dir=3D"ltr">
        <div>
          <div>
            <div>Chris,<br>
              <br>
            </div>
            I hate to be negative about your good oil pressure but I
            fear you may have a problem.=C2=A0 I am assuming that you have
            the &quot;high pressure&quot; oil pump from DW.<br>
            <br>
            Based upon that assumption, I can tell you that it is the
            rotary style of pump that was used on the 100-6 engines.
            There were many problems with this pump.=C2=A0 It has a very
            large capacity and as such it results in a lot of friction,
            or back pressure in the system. Namely, it put stress on the
            camshaft gear, the driving spindle gear, the timing chain
            and the camshaft thrust plate.=C2=A0 This was a common problem
            with the early 100-6 motors.=C2=A0 One fix was to machine an oi=
l
            grove in one side of the the trust plate. Then an oil groove
            on both sides. Then a bronze thrust plate with oil grooves.=C2=
=A0
            Timing chains stretched.=C2=A0 Cam and driving spindle gears
            received excessive wear.=C2=A0 That is why the switch was made =
to
            the gear style pump.<br>
            <br>
            The rotary style of pump is actually a very good design.
            Nissan used it in the Z car motors but it was 2/3rd the size
            of the Healey pump so there was much less back pressure.=C2=A0 =
<br>
            <br>
          </div>
          Many of us racers have used the DW &quot;high pressure&quot; oil =
pumps
          and discovered that at some point, all of the teeth on the cam
          and driving spindles have been ground off to such an extent
          that we have lost all oil pressure.=C2=A0 On a shelf with my
          &quot;offerings to the god of speed&quot; I have a camshaft thrus=
t plate
          that has a groove that has been ground into it almost=C2=A0 1/8th
          of an inch from the resistance of the oil pump forcing the
          camshaft into the trust plate. I am sad to admit that it took
          me the loss of 2 race motors to finally grasp why this was
          happening and before I switched back to the 3000 gear style
          pump .<br>
          <br>
        </div>
        <div>Jeff Jonk did an excellent article about these pumps and
          the damage they cause in the Healey Marque publication about
          10 years ago.<br>
          <br>
        </div>
        Richard<br>
        <div>
          <div><br>
            <div>
              <div class=3D"gmail_extra">
                <div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Tue, Aug 30, 2016 at 3:53
                  AM, Chris Dimmock <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto=
:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt;=
</span>
                  wrote:<br>
                  <blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .=
8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">Hi
                    all,<br>
                    Recently someone asked about oil pressures, and the
                    oil being used.<br>
                    <br>
                    My BJ8 engine was totally rebuilt in 1998.<br>
                    Today, my wife and I went for a drive up the M1
                    motorway and I kept an eye on oil pressure. Water
                    temp was 185 degrees all the time. Air temp was ~22
                    degrees Celcius.<br>
                    Lovely day for a drive to the Hunter Valley!<br>
                    <br>
                    Hot idle. After 70 minutes at ~70 mph, idle @ 850 -
                    900rpm =3D 40 lbs.<br>
                    Oil pressure at 2,000 rpm hot driving =3D 50 lbs<br>
                    3,000 - 5,000 rpm hot oil pressure =3D 60 lbs.<br>
                    My wife said we wouldn&#39;t make our 3rd wedding
                    anniversary if I pulled 6,000 in overdrive top.....
                    ;-)<br>
                    Denis Welch oil pump.<br>
                    Fresh Penrite HPR 40 oil and filter last weekend.<br>
                    Draw your own conclusions. Mine are:<br>
                    the thermostat is perfect, and<br>
                    so is the oil pressure relief valve.<br>
                    Best<br>
                    Chris</blockquote>
                </div>
              </div>
            </div>
          </div>
        </div>
      </div>
      <pre></pre>
    </blockquote>
    <br>
  </div>

<br>
s/[email-masked]" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">http://autox.=
team.net/mailman/<wbr>options/healeys/boyracer466@<wbr>gmail.com</a><br>
<br>
<br></blockquote></div><br></div>

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---

From: Chris Dimmock <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 3 Sep 2016 11:58:41 +1000

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Hi Richard,
Totally valid concern, but there is one factor missing. The speed your camsh=
aft is driving the oil pump.=20
I've done a lot of research on oil pumps and cam drives since 1998. I publis=
hed an article - prompted by numerous cam drive/ oil pump gear failures at B=
athurst in 1998 and 1999, which I'll dig out.=20
I run the DW pump - but I use the later cam with 12 teeth driving the oil pu=
mp.=20
I also run the DW hardened steel cam retaining plate and DW Torrington cam b=
earing.=20
These are all important points which address your concern. =20
The big difference is if you use the earlier camshaft with the 13 teeth oil p=
ump gear. All the failures I have seen (3 after Bathurst alone) were from th=
e earlier cams with 13 teeth driving the oil pump. It's the 13 teeth cam whi=
ch is the major issue.=20
It's about how fast you are driving the oil pump.=20
Here's some background for everyone else for completeness.=20
All 6 cylinder C series camshafts have 2 gear drives on them. The gear close=
st to the back of the camshaft drives the oil pump. The gear closest to the m=
iddle of the camshaft drives the distributor, and the distributor drive gear=
 on the camshaft always has 13 teeth on it=E2=80=A6.
But there are 2 variants of the oil pump drive gear on the camshaft.
The first is what I'll call the =E2=80=9Csedan=E2=80=9D camshaft. It was typ=
ically used in early model, low revving C Series sedans,  6 cyl A90 and A95=E2=
=80=99s, and also 100/6's. I=E2=80=99m not sure whether or not it was used i=
n any 3000=E2=80=99s, or when it changed. This camshaft is relatively easy t=
o identify, as the gear closest to the back of the camshaft, which drives th=
e oil pump, has 13 teeth on it. So it is the same diameter as the distributo=
r drive gear on the camshaft =E2=80=93 both 13 teeth. Usually, these cams ha=
ve beautiful lobes and have never been reground. Because they came from a lo=
w mileage sedan.... That's why racers regrind them & use them...
The other camshaft, typically found in later C Series engines and later 6 cy=
l Healey's, later Wolseleys  etc. (I'll call Healey cam) has 12 teeth to dri=
ve the oil pump (and still 13 to drive the distributor). Easily identifiable=
 because the two gears on the camshaft are different diameters. It effective=
ly drives the oil pump 8% slower than the earlier "sedan" cam at the same re=
vs.=20
So I'm guessing your "souvenirs" all have 12 teeth cam drives. Just like all=
 those that blew up with the same symptoms at Bathurst in 1998 and 1999.=20
Denis Welch explained to us, face to face, the lack of lubrication to the ca=
m/ oil pump gear drive issue, at Bathurst in 1998. He even drew a picture of=
 how you can tap into an oil drilling in the block, that you thread a piece o=
f brake line into, to squirt oil directly on the camshaft/ oil pump gears, t=
o keep them lubricated. But he also said - NEVER run a 12 tooth cam/ oil pum=
p drive cam over 5,500 rpm - irrespective which oil pump you use - because 5=
,500 rpm on that cam is driving the oil pump closer to 6,000=20
If you use a standard Healey crankshaft, (so you aren=E2=80=99t going to "re=
gularly" rev it over 6,000 rpm) and fit an upgraded oil pump (e.g. the Denis=
 Welch hi volume pump) with a sedan 13 tooth cam - you will have huge oil pr=
essure. Because the =E2=80=9Csedan=E2=80=9D cam is driving the oil pump 8.33=
% faster than the =E2=80=9CHealey=E2=80=9D cam at the same engine revs. =20
And if you rev the engine with a =E2=80=98sedan=E2=80=99 cam at 6,000 or mor=
e for any prolonged length of time, the oil pump gear on the cam will strip a=
nd you'll have no oil pressure at all. Because although the engine is pullin=
g 6,000rpm, the oil pump is being worked as if the engine was running at 6,5=
00rpm =E2=80=93i.e.  8.3% faster=E2=80=A6 and if you were pulling say 6,400r=
pm =E2=80=93 the oil pump is being driven as if you were pulling over 6,900 r=
pm.....
The cam gear that drives the oil pump on the C Series engine has very poor l=
ubrication (it=E2=80=99s based on the BMC =E2=80=98splash and drip=E2=80=99 l=
ubrication theory). There is no pressure fed oil to the two meshed gears =E2=
=80=93 the oil pump drive gear on the cam, and the oil pump drive spindle ge=
ar. So as you rev the engine  harder, the =E2=80=9Cdripped and splashed oil=E2=
=80=9D gets thrown off the gears, and they run dry, wearing through the hard=
ening relatively quickly, at sustained high RPM. This process is all dramati=
cally increased if you are running a =E2=80=9Csedan=E2=80=9D cam, as the oil=
 pump gear on the cam is driving the oil pump spindle gear 8% faster....
You also mentioned the steel camshaft retaining plate failures. Denis Welch a=
lso offers a Hardened steel version of this plate, and a Torrington bearing -=
 which together solve the second issue of wear in this area.=20
The ultimate solution is the DW gun drilled cam, which makes the camshaft pa=
rt of the oil gallery, and lubricates under pressure the cam lobes and oil p=
ump drive gear and the distributor drive gear. These didn't become available=
 until around 2003.=20
We pulled the sump off my engine, and pulled the oil pump, after the numerou=
s Bathurst blow ups in other guys engines from this issue. See http://www.my=
austinhealey.com/mechanical_restoration.html=20
So your concern is valid, Richard, but the missing piece of the issue is the=
 cam gear teeth. Mine is 12. My concern was alleviated after we pulled the p=
ump after 3 years driving and some 20 track days.=20
A 13 teeth cam drive would definitely be a concern, in an engine revved over=
 5,500
If anyone is running the earlier 13 teeth cam with a DW pump & Penrite HPR t=
hey'll have better oil pressure figures than me at the same rpm. :-)
Best
Chris

>=20
>=20
> ......... Many of us racers have used the DW "high pressure" oil pumps and=
 discovered that at some point, all of the teeth on the cam and driving spin=
dles have been ground off to such an extent that we have lost all oil pressu=
re. =20

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<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"content-type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3D=
utf-8"></head><body dir=3D"auto"><div><div style=3D"color: rgb(69, 69, 69); t=
ext-decoration: -webkit-letterpress;"><span style=3D"background-color: rgba(=
255, 255, 255, 0);">Hi Richard,</span></div><div style=3D"color: rgb(69, 69,=
 69); text-decoration: -webkit-letterpress;">Totally valid concern, but ther=
e is one factor missing. The speed your camshaft is driving the oil pump.&nb=
sp;</div><div style=3D"color: rgb(69, 69, 69); text-decoration: -webkit-lett=
erpress;"><span style=3D"background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);">I've don=
e a lot of research on oil pumps and cam drives since 1998. I published an a=
rticle - prompted by numerous cam drive/ oil pump gear failures at Bathurst i=
n 1998 and 1999, which I'll dig out.&nbsp;</span></div><div style=3D"color: r=
gb(69, 69, 69); text-decoration: -webkit-letterpress;">I run the DW pump - b=
ut I use the later&nbsp;cam with 12&nbsp;teeth driving the oil pump.&nbsp;</=
div><div style=3D"color: rgb(69, 69, 69); text-decoration: -webkit-letterpre=
ss;">I also run the DW hardened steel cam retaining plate and DW Torrington c=
am bearing.&nbsp;</div><div style=3D"color: rgb(69, 69, 69); text-decoration=
: -webkit-letterpress;">These are all important points which address your co=
ncern. &nbsp;</div><div style=3D"color: rgb(69, 69, 69); text-decoration: -w=
ebkit-letterpress;">The big difference is if you use the earlier camshaft wi=
th the 13 teeth oil pump gear. All the failures I have seen (3 after Bathurs=
t alone) were from the earlier cams with 13 teeth driving the oil pump. It's=
 the 13 teeth cam which is the major issue.&nbsp;</div><div style=3D"color: r=
gb(69, 69, 69); text-decoration: -webkit-letterpress;">It's about how fast y=
ou are driving the oil pump.&nbsp;</div><div style=3D"color: rgb(69, 69, 69)=
; text-decoration: -webkit-letterpress;"><span style=3D"background-color: rg=
ba(255, 255, 255, 0);">Here's some background for everyone else for complete=
ness.&nbsp;</span></div><div style=3D"color: rgb(69, 69, 69); text-decoratio=
n: -webkit-letterpress;"><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0=
001pt;"><span style=3D"background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);">All 6 cyli=
nder C series camshafts have 2 gear drives on them. The gear closest to the b=
ack of the camshaft drives the oil pump. The gear closest to the middle of t=
he camshaft drives the distributor, and the distributor drive gear on the ca=
mshaft always has 13 teeth on it=E2=80=A6.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3D"=
MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt;"><span style=3D"background-col=
or: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);">But there are 2 variants of the oil pump drive g=
ear on the camshaft.</span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0in 0=
in 0.0001pt;"><span style=3D"background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);">The f=
irst is what I'll call the =E2=80=9Csedan=E2=80=9D camshaft. It was typicall=
y used in early model, low revving C Series sedans, &nbsp;6 cyl A90 and A95=E2=
=80=99s, and also 100/6's. I=E2=80=99m not sure whether or not it was used i=
n any 3000=E2=80=99s, or when it changed. This camshaft is relatively easy t=
o identify, as the gear closest to the back of the camshaft, which drives th=
e oil pump, has 13 teeth on it. So it is the same diameter as the distributo=
r drive gear on the camshaft =E2=80=93 both 13 teeth. Usually, these cams ha=
ve beautiful lobes and have never been reground. Because they came from a lo=
w mileage sedan.... That's why racers regrind them &amp; use them...<o:p></o=
:p></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt;"><sp=
an style=3D"background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);">The other camshaft, t=
ypically found in later C Series engines and later 6 cyl Healey's, later Wol=
seleys&nbsp; etc. (I'll call Healey cam) has 12 teeth to drive the oil pump (=
and still 13 to drive the distributor). Easily identifiable because the two g=
ears on the camshaft are different diameters. It effectively drives the oil p=
ump 8% slower than the earlier "sedan" cam at the same revs.&nbsp;</span></p=
><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt;"><span style=3D"b=
ackground-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);">So I'm guessing your "souvenirs" a=
ll have 12 teeth cam drives. Just like all those that blew up with the same s=
ymptoms at Bathurst in 1998 and 1999.&nbsp;</span></p></div><div style=3D"co=
lor: rgb(69, 69, 69); text-decoration: -webkit-letterpress;"><span style=3D"=
background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);">Denis Welch explained to us, face=
 to face, the lack of lubrication to the cam/ oil pump gear drive issue, at B=
athurst in 1998. He even drew a picture of how you can tap into an oil drill=
ing in the block, that you thread a piece of brake line into, to squirt oil d=
irectly on the camshaft/ oil pump gears, to keep them lubricated. But he als=
o said - NEVER run a 12 tooth cam/ oil pump drive cam over 5,500 rpm - irres=
pective which oil pump you use - because 5,500 rpm on that cam is driving th=
e oil pump closer to 6,000&nbsp;</span></div><div style=3D"color: rgb(69, 69=
, 69); text-decoration: -webkit-letterpress;"><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D=
"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt;"><span style=3D"background-color: rgba(255, 255, 2=
55, 0);">If you use a standard Healey crankshaft, (so you aren=E2=80=99t goi=
ng to "regularly" rev it over 6,000 rpm) and fit an upgraded oil pump (e.g. t=
he Denis Welch hi volume pump) with a sedan 13 tooth cam - you will have hug=
e oil pressure. Because the =E2=80=9Csedan=E2=80=9D cam is driving the oil p=
ump 8.33% faster than the =E2=80=9CHealey=E2=80=9D cam at the same engine re=
vs.&nbsp;&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin:=
 0in 0in 0.0001pt;"><span style=3D"background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);=
">And if you rev the engine with a =E2=80=98sedan=E2=80=99 cam at 6,000 or m=
ore for any prolonged length of time, the oil pump gear on the cam will stri=
p and you'll have no oil pressure at all. Because although the engine is pul=
ling 6,000rpm, the oil pump is being worked as if the engine was running at 6=
,500rpm =E2=80=93i.e.&nbsp; 8.3% faster=E2=80=A6 and if you were pulling say=
 6,400rpm =E2=80=93 the oil pump is being driven as if you were pulling over=
 6,900 rpm.....<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin:=
 0in 0in 0.0001pt;"><span style=3D"background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);=
">The cam gear that drives the oil pump on the C Series engine has very poor=
 lubrication (it=E2=80=99s based on the BMC =E2=80=98splash and drip=E2=80=99=
 lubrication theory). There is no pressure fed oil to the two meshed gears =E2=
=80=93 the oil pump drive gear on the cam, and the oil pump drive spindle ge=
ar. So as you rev the engine&nbsp; harder, the =E2=80=9Cdripped and splashed=
 oil=E2=80=9D gets thrown off the gears, and they run dry, wearing through t=
he hardening relatively quickly, at sustained high RPM. This process is all d=
ramatically increased if you are running a =E2=80=9Csedan=E2=80=9D cam, as t=
he oil pump gear on the cam is driving the oil pump spindle gear 8% faster..=
..</span></p></div><div style=3D"color: rgb(69, 69, 69); text-decoration: -w=
ebkit-letterpress;">You also mentioned the steel camshaft retaining plate fa=
ilures. Denis Welch also offers a Hardened steel version of this plate, and a=
 Torrington bearing - which together solve the second issue of wear in this a=
rea.&nbsp;</div><div style=3D"color: rgb(69, 69, 69); text-decoration: -webk=
it-letterpress;">The ultimate solution is the DW gun drilled cam, which make=
s the camshaft part of the oil gallery, and lubricates under pressure the ca=
m lobes and oil pump drive gear and the distributor drive gear. These didn't=
 become available until around 2003.&nbsp;</div><div>We pulled the sump off m=
y engine, and pulled the oil pump, after the numerous Bathurst blow ups in o=
ther guys engines from this issue. See&nbsp;<a href=3D"http://www.myaustinhe=
aley.com/mechanical_restoration.html">http://www.myaustinhealey.com/mechanic=
al_restoration.html</a>&nbsp;</div><div>So your concern is valid, Richard, b=
ut the missing piece of the issue is the cam gear teeth. Mine is 12. My conc=
ern was alleviated after we pulled the pump after 3 years driving and some 2=
0 track days.&nbsp;</div><div>A 13 teeth cam drive would definitely be a con=
cern, in an engine revved over 5,500</div><div>If anyone is running the earl=
ier 13 teeth cam with a DW pump &amp; Penrite HPR they'll have better oil pr=
essure figures than me at the same rpm. :-)</div><div>Best</div><div>Chris</=
div><br><img src=3D"cid:7F487485-6355-4324-8CCC-BDB106D325B7" alt=3D"image1.=
PNG" id=3D"7F487485-6355-4324-8CCC-BDB106D325B7"><br></div><div><br>On 2 Sep=
 2016, at 11:30 AM, richard mayor &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]=
m">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:<br><br></div><blockquote type=3D"cit=
e"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div><div><div>Chris,<br><br></div>I hate to be negative=
 about your good oil pressure but I fear you may have a problem.&nbsp; I am a=
ssuming that you have the "high pressure" oil pump from DW.<br><br><br></div=
>......... Many of us racers have used the DW "high pressure" oil pumps and d=
iscovered that at some point, all of the teeth on the cam and driving spindl=
es have been ground off to such an extent that we have lost all oil pressure=
. &nbsp;<br></div></div></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div><span></=
span><br></div></blockquote></body></html>=

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[email-masked]

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---

From: Bob Spidell <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 3 Sep 2016 06:09:17 -0700

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Thanks for the detailed write-up, Chris.

Begs the question: is the gun-drilled camshaft the solution for the 
cam/tappet failures--premature wear--we keep hearing about? Sounds like 
the gun-drilled cam and DW's bucket lifters--which I believe have holes 
in the bottom for additional lubrication to the cam lobes--along with a 
good, ZDDP oil would prevent these failures.

Bob

On 9/2/2016 6:58 PM, Chris Dimmock wrote:
> Hi Richard,
> Totally valid concern, but there is one factor missing. The speed your 
> camshaft is driving the oil pump.
> <snip>

--------------AEE977E1F049DD40A7A9637F
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<html>
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    <meta content="text/html; charset=windows-1252"
      http-equiv="Content-Type">
  </head>
  <body bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000">
    <p>Thanks for the detailed write-up, Chris.</p>
    <p>Begs the question: is the gun-drilled camshaft the solution for
      the cam/tappet failures--premature wear--we keep hearing about? 
      Sounds like the gun-drilled cam and DW's bucket lifters--which I
      believe have holes in the bottom for additional lubrication to the
      cam lobes--along with a good, ZDDP oil would prevent these
      failures.</p>
    <p>Bob<br>
    </p>
    <br>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 9/2/2016 6:58 PM, Chris Dimmock
      wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote
      cite="mid:[email-masked]"
      type="cite">
      <meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html;
        charset=windows-1252">
      <div>
        <div style="color: rgb(69, 69, 69); text-decoration:
          -webkit-letterpress;"><span style="background-color: rgba(255,
            255, 255, 0);">Hi Richard,</span></div>
        <div style="color: rgb(69, 69, 69); text-decoration:
          -webkit-letterpress;">Totally valid concern, but there is one
          factor missing. The speed your camshaft is driving the oil
          pump. </div>
        &lt;snip&gt;<br>
      </div>
    </blockquote>
    <br>
  </body>
</html>

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[email-masked]

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---

From: Michael Salter <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 3 Sep 2016 10:06:57 -0400

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Just a second you guys.... there is something missing here.
It's a long time since I took "Gear Design 101" but a few things that I do
remember are:

   1. If the number of teeth on a gear is increased without changing the DP
   then the PCD (Pitch Circle Diameter) increases.
   2. 2 mating teeth have to have the same DP (Diametric Pitch).
   3. If the PCD changes then the shaft center-line spacing must change.

 *Sooooo..* Installing a cam with an extra tooth on the oil pump drive gear
MUST require a different oil pump drive spindle or a different block (to
alter the shaft center-line spacing) !!!
B.M.C. knew this because, according to the parts book, prior to C.E.38262 a
different oil pump drive spindle was used.. This spindle and the cam gear
would almost certainly have had a different DP.
*Therefore...* It is quite reasonable that there will be catastrophic
consequences if you change the cam without changing the oil pump drive
spindle, things like rapid gear tooth wear, high friction, excessive end
thrust etc....sound familiar?
*Conversely *... Installing an early spindle (designed for a 13 tooth cam
gear) on a 12 tooth cam gear will result in extremely poor gear engagement
and very rapid wear of the teeth of both gears.
Just sayin'.

Michael S
BN1 #174

On Fri, Sep 2, 2016 at 9:58 PM, Chris Dimmock <[email-masked]>
wrote:

> I've done a lot of research on oil pumps and cam drives since 1998. I
> published an article - prompted by numerous cam drive/ oil pump gear
> failures at Bathurst in 1998 and 1999, which I'll dig out.
> I run the DW pump - but I use the later cam with 12 teeth driving the oil
> pump.
> I also run the DW hardened steel cam retaining plate and DW Torrington ca=
m
> bearing.
> These are all important points which address your concern.
> The big difference is if you use the earlier camshaft with the 13 teeth
> oil pump gear. All the failures I have seen (3 after Bathurst alone) were
> from the earlier cams with 13 teeth driving the oil pump. It's the 13 tee=
th
> cam which is the major issue.
> It's about how fast you are driving the oil pump.
> Here's some background for everyone else for completeness.
>
> All 6 cylinder C series camshafts have 2 gear drives on them. The gear
> closest to the back of the camshaft drives the oil pump. The gear closest
> to the middle of the camshaft drives the distributor, and the distributor
> drive gear on the camshaft always has 13 teeth on it=E2=80=A6.
>
> The first is what I'll call the =E2=80=9Csedan=E2=80=9D camshaft. It was =
typically used in
> early model, low revving C Series sedans,  6 cyl A90 and A95=E2=80=99s, a=
nd also
> 100/6's. I=E2=80=99m not sure whether or not it was used in any 3000=E2=
=80=99s, or when it
> changed. This camshaft is relatively easy to identify, as the gear closes=
t
> to the back of the camshaft, which drives the oil pump, has 13 teeth on i=
t.
> So it is the same diameter as the distributor drive gear on the camshaft =
=E2=80=93
> both 13 teeth. Usually, these cams have beautiful lobes and have never be=
en
> reground. Because they came from a low mileage sedan.... That's why racer=
s
> regrind them & use them...
>
> The other camshaft, typically found in later C Series engines and later 6
> cyl Healey's, later Wolseleys  etc. (I'll call Healey cam) has 12 teeth t=
o
> drive the oil pump (and still 13 to drive the distributor). Easily
> identifiable because the two gears on the camshaft are different diameter=
s.
> It effectively drives the oil pump 8% slower than the earlier "sedan" cam
> at the same revs.
>
> So I'm guessing your "souvenirs" all have 12 teeth cam drives. Just like
> all those that blew up with the same symptoms at Bathurst in 1998 and 199=
9.
> Denis Welch explained to us, face to face, the lack of lubrication to the
> cam/ oil pump gear drive issue, at Bathurst in 1998. He even drew a pictu=
re
> of how you can tap into an oil drilling in the block, that you thread a
> piece of brake line into, to squirt oil directly on the camshaft/ oil pum=
p
> gears, to keep them lubricated. But he also said - NEVER run a 12 tooth
> cam/ oil pump drive cam over 5,500 rpm - irrespective which oil pump you
> use - because 5,500 rpm on that cam is driving the oil pump closer to 6,0=
00
>
> If you use a standard Healey crankshaft, (so you aren=E2=80=99t going to
> "regularly" rev it over 6,000 rpm) and fit an upgraded oil pump (e.g. the
> Denis Welch hi volume pump) with a sedan 13 tooth cam - you will have hug=
e
> oil pressure. Because the =E2=80=9Csedan=E2=80=9D cam is driving the oil =
pump 8.33% faster
> than the =E2=80=9CHealey=E2=80=9D cam at the same engine revs.
>
> And if you rev the engine with a =E2=80=98sedan=E2=80=99 cam at 6,000 or =
more for any
> prolonged length of time, the oil pump gear on the cam will strip and
> you'll have no oil pressure at all. Because although the engine is pullin=
g
> 6,000rpm, the oil pump is being worked as if the engine was running at
> 6,500rpm =E2=80=93i.e.  8.3% faster=E2=80=A6 and if you were pulling say =
6,400rpm =E2=80=93 the oil
> pump is being driven as if you were pulling over 6,900 rpm.....
>
> The cam gear that drives the oil pump on the C Series engine has very poo=
r
> lubrication (it=E2=80=99s based on the BMC =E2=80=98splash and drip=E2=80=
=99 lubrication theory).
> There is no pressure fed oil to the two meshed gears =E2=80=93 the oil pu=
mp drive
> gear on the cam, and the oil pump drive spindle gear. So as you rev the
> engine  harder, the =E2=80=9Cdripped and splashed oil=E2=80=9D gets throw=
n off the gears,
> and they run dry, wearing through the hardening relatively quickly, at
> sustained high RPM. This process is all dramatically increased if you are
> running a =E2=80=9Csedan=E2=80=9D cam, as the oil pump gear on the cam is=
 driving the oil
> pump spindle gear 8% faster....
> You also mentioned the steel camshaft retaining plate failures. Denis
> Welch also offers a Hardened steel version of this plate, and a Torringto=
n
> bearing - which together solve the second issue of wear in this area.
> The ultimate solution is the DW gun drilled cam, which makes the camshaft
> part of the oil gallery, and lubricates under pressure the cam lobes and
> oil pump drive gear and the distributor drive gear. These didn't become
> available until around 2003.
> We pulled the sump off my engine, and pulled the oil pump, after the
> numerous Bathurst blow ups in other guys engines from this issue. See
> http://www.myaustinhealey.com/mechanical_restoration.html
> So your concern is valid, Richard, but the missing piece of the issue is
> the cam gear teeth. Mine is 12. My concern was alleviated after we pulled
> the pump after 3 years driving and some 20 track days.
> A 13 teeth cam drive would definitely be a concern, in an engine revved
> over 5,500
> If anyone is running the earlier 13 teeth cam with a DW pump & Penrite HP=
R
> they'll have better oil pressure figures than me at the same rpm. :-)
> Best
> Chris
>
>
> I hate to be negative about your good oil pressure but I fear you may hav=
e
> ......... Many of us racers have used the DW "high pressure" oil pumps an=
d
> pressure.

--=20

--001a1141173ed535d8053b9af5d4
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr"><div style=3D"font-family:comic sans ms,sans-serif;font-si=
ze:small" class=3D"gmail_default">Just a second you guys.... there is somet=
hing missing here.<br></div><div style=3D"font-family:comic sans ms,sans-se=
rif;font-size:small" class=3D"gmail_default">It&#39;s a long time since I t=
ook &quot;Gear Design 101&quot; but a few things that I do remember are:<br=
><ol><li>If the number of teeth on a gear is increased without changing the=
 DP then the PCD (Pitch Circle Diameter) increases.</li><li>2 mating teeth =
have to have the same DP (Diametric Pitch).<br></li><li>If the PCD changes =
then the shaft center-line spacing must change. </li></ol></div><div style=
=3D"font-family:comic sans ms,sans-serif;font-size:small" class=3D"gmail_de=
fault">=C2=A0<u>Sooooo..</u> Installing a cam with an extra tooth on the oi=
l pump drive gear MUST require a different oil pump drive spindle or a diff=
erent block (to alter the shaft center-line spacing) !!!<br></div><div styl=
e=3D"font-family:comic sans ms,sans-serif;font-size:small" class=3D"gmail_d=
efault">B.M.C. knew this because, according to the parts book, prior to <sp=
an id=3D"gmail-grdProductDetails__ctl133_lblApplication">C.E.38262 a differ=
ent oil pump drive spindle was used.. This spindle and the cam gear would a=
lmost certainly have had a different DP.<br></span></div><div style=3D"font=
-family:comic sans ms,sans-serif;font-size:small" class=3D"gmail_default"><=
span id=3D"gmail-grdProductDetails__ctl133_lblApplication"><u>Therefore...<=
/u> It is quite reasonable that there will be catastrophic consequences if =
you change the cam without changing the oil pump drive spindle, things like=
 rapid gear tooth wear, high friction, excessive end thrust etc....sound fa=
miliar?<br></span></div><div style=3D"font-family:comic sans ms,sans-serif;=
font-size:small" class=3D"gmail_default"><span id=3D"gmail-grdProductDetail=
s__ctl133_lblApplication"><u>Conversely </u>... Installing an early spindle=
 (designed for a 13 tooth cam gear) on a 12 tooth cam gear will result in e=
xtremely poor gear engagement and very rapid wear of the teeth of both gear=
s.<br></span></div><div style=3D"font-family:comic sans ms,sans-serif;font-=
size:small" class=3D"gmail_default"><span id=3D"gmail-grdProductDetails__ct=
l133_lblApplication">Just sayin&#39;.<br></span></div><div style=3D"font-fa=
mily:comic sans ms,sans-serif;font-size:small" class=3D"gmail_default"><spa=
n id=3D"gmail-grdProductDetails__ctl133_lblApplication"><br>Michael S<br></=
span></div><div style=3D"font-family:comic sans ms,sans-serif;font-size:sma=
ll" class=3D"gmail_default"><span id=3D"gmail-grdProductDetails__ctl133_lbl=
Application">BN1 #174<br></span></div><div style=3D"font-family:comic sans =
ms,sans-serif;font-size:small" class=3D"gmail_default"><span id=3D"gmail-gr=
dProductDetails__ctl133_lblApplication"><br></span></div></div><div class=
=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Fri, Sep 2, 2016 at 9:58=
 PM, Chris Dimmock <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:austin.healey@gm=
ail.com" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br=
><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1=
px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"auto"><div><div style=3D"color:=
rgb(69,69,69);text-decoration:-webkit-letterpress"><span style=3D"backgroun=
d-color:rgba(255,255,255,0)">Hi Richard,</span></div><div style=3D"color:rg=
b(69,69,69);text-decoration:-webkit-letterpress">Totally valid concern, but=
 there is one factor missing. The speed your camshaft is driving the oil pu=
mp.=C2=A0</div><div style=3D"color:rgb(69,69,69);text-decoration:-webkit-le=
tterpress"><span style=3D"background-color:rgba(255,255,255,0)">I&#39;ve do=
ne a lot of research on oil pumps and cam drives since 1998. I published an=
 article - prompted by numerous cam drive/ oil pump gear failures at Bathur=
st in 1998 and 1999, which I&#39;ll dig out.=C2=A0</span></div><div style=
=3D"color:rgb(69,69,69);text-decoration:-webkit-letterpress">I run the DW p=
ump - but I use the later=C2=A0cam with 12=C2=A0teeth driving the oil pump.=
=C2=A0</div><div style=3D"color:rgb(69,69,69);text-decoration:-webkit-lette=
rpress">I also run the DW hardened steel cam retaining plate and DW Torring=
ton cam bearing.=C2=A0</div><div style=3D"color:rgb(69,69,69);text-decorati=
on:-webkit-letterpress">These are all important points which address your c=
oncern. =C2=A0</div><div style=3D"color:rgb(69,69,69);text-decoration:-webk=
it-letterpress">The big difference is if you use the earlier camshaft with =
the 13 teeth oil pump gear. All the failures I have seen (3 after Bathurst =
alone) were from the earlier cams with 13 teeth driving the oil pump. It&#3=
9;s the 13 teeth cam which is the major issue.=C2=A0</div><div style=3D"col=
or:rgb(69,69,69);text-decoration:-webkit-letterpress">It&#39;s about how fa=
st you are driving the oil pump.=C2=A0</div><div style=3D"color:rgb(69,69,6=
9);text-decoration:-webkit-letterpress"><span style=3D"background-color:rgb=
a(255,255,255,0)">Here&#39;s some background for everyone else for complete=
ness.=C2=A0</span></div><div style=3D"color:rgb(69,69,69);text-decoration:-=
webkit-letterpress"><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt=
"><span style=3D"background-color:rgba(255,255,255,0)">All 6 cylinder C ser=
ies camshafts have 2 gear drives on them. The gear closest to the back of t=
he camshaft drives the oil pump. The gear closest to the middle of the cams=
haft drives the distributor, and the distributor drive gear on the camshaft=
 always has 13 teeth on it=E2=80=A6.<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"Ms=
oNormal" style=3D"margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt"><span style=3D"background-color:=
rgba(255,255,255,0)">But there are 2 variants of the oil pump drive gear on=
 the camshaft.</span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin:0in 0in 0.0=
001pt"><span style=3D"background-color:rgba(255,255,255,0)">The first is wh=
at I&#39;ll call the =E2=80=9Csedan=E2=80=9D camshaft. It was typically use=
d in early model, low revving C Series sedans, =C2=A06 cyl A90 and A95=E2=
=80=99s, and also 100/6&#39;s. I=E2=80=99m not sure whether or not it was u=
sed in any 3000=E2=80=99s, or when it changed. This camshaft is relatively =
easy to identify, as the gear closest to the back of the camshaft, which dr=
ives the oil pump, has 13 teeth on it. So it is the same diameter as the di=
stributor drive gear on the camshaft =E2=80=93 both 13 teeth. Usually, thes=
e cams have beautiful lobes and have never been reground. Because they came=
 from a low mileage sedan.... That&#39;s why racers regrind them &amp; use =
them...<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin:0in =
0in 0.0001pt"><span style=3D"background-color:rgba(255,255,255,0)">The othe=
r camshaft, typically found in later C Series engines and later 6 cyl Heale=
y&#39;s, later Wolseleys=C2=A0 etc. (I&#39;ll call Healey cam) has 12 teeth=
 to drive the oil pump (and still 13 to drive the distributor). Easily iden=
tifiable because the two gears on the camshaft are different diameters. It =
effectively drives the oil pump 8% slower than the earlier &quot;sedan&quot=
; cam at the same revs.=C2=A0</span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mar=
gin:0in 0in 0.0001pt"><span style=3D"background-color:rgba(255,255,255,0)">=
So I&#39;m guessing your &quot;souvenirs&quot; all have 12 teeth cam drives=
. Just like all those that blew up with the same symptoms at Bathurst in 19=
98 and 1999.=C2=A0</span></p></div><div style=3D"color:rgb(69,69,69);text-d=
ecoration:-webkit-letterpress"><span style=3D"background-color:rgba(255,255=
,255,0)">Denis Welch explained to us, face to face, the lack of lubrication=
 to the cam/ oil pump gear drive issue, at Bathurst in 1998. He even drew a=
 picture of how you can tap into an oil drilling in the block, that you thr=
ead a piece of brake line into, to squirt oil directly on the camshaft/ oil=
 pump gears, to keep them lubricated. But he also said - NEVER run a 12 too=
th cam/ oil pump drive cam over 5,500 rpm - irrespective which oil pump you=
 use - because 5,500 rpm on that cam is driving the oil pump closer to 6,00=
0=C2=A0</span></div><div style=3D"color:rgb(69,69,69);text-decoration:-webk=
it-letterpress"><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt"><s=
pan style=3D"background-color:rgba(255,255,255,0)">If you use a standard He=
aley crankshaft, (so you aren=E2=80=99t going to &quot;regularly&quot; rev =
it over 6,000 rpm) and fit an upgraded oil pump (e.g. the Denis Welch hi vo=
lume pump) with a sedan 13 tooth cam - you will have huge oil pressure. Bec=
ause the =E2=80=9Csedan=E2=80=9D cam is driving the oil pump 8.33% faster t=
han the =E2=80=9CHealey=E2=80=9D cam at the same engine revs.=C2=A0=C2=A0<u=
></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin:0in 0in 0.000=
1pt"><span style=3D"background-color:rgba(255,255,255,0)">And if you rev th=
e engine with a =E2=80=98sedan=E2=80=99 cam at 6,000 or more for any prolon=
ged length of time, the oil pump gear on the cam will strip and you&#39;ll =
have no oil pressure at all. Because although the engine is pulling 6,000rp=
m, the oil pump is being worked as if the engine was running at 6,500rpm =
=E2=80=93i.e.=C2=A0 8.3% faster=E2=80=A6 and if you were pulling say 6,400r=
pm =E2=80=93 the oil pump is being driven as if you were pulling over 6,900=
 rpm.....<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin:0i=
n 0in 0.0001pt"><span style=3D"background-color:rgba(255,255,255,0)">The ca=
m gear that drives the oil pump on the C Series engine has very poor lubric=
ation (it=E2=80=99s based on the BMC =E2=80=98splash and drip=E2=80=99 lubr=
ication theory). There is no pressure fed oil to the two meshed gears =E2=
=80=93 the oil pump drive gear on the cam, and the oil pump drive spindle g=
ear. So as you rev the engine=C2=A0 harder, the =E2=80=9Cdripped and splash=
ed oil=E2=80=9D gets thrown off the gears, and they run dry, wearing throug=
h the hardening relatively quickly, at sustained high RPM. This process is =
all dramatically increased if you are running a =E2=80=9Csedan=E2=80=9D cam=
, as the oil pump gear on the cam is driving the oil pump spindle gear 8% f=
aster....</span></p></div><div style=3D"color:rgb(69,69,69);text-decoration=
:-webkit-letterpress">You also mentioned the steel camshaft retaining plate=
 failures. Denis Welch also offers a Hardened steel version of this plate, =
and a Torrington bearing - which together solve the second issue of wear in=
 this area.=C2=A0</div><div style=3D"color:rgb(69,69,69);text-decoration:-w=
ebkit-letterpress">The ultimate solution is the DW gun drilled cam, which m=
akes the camshaft part of the oil gallery, and lubricates under pressure th=
e cam lobes and oil pump drive gear and the distributor drive gear. These d=
idn&#39;t become available until around 2003.=C2=A0</div><div>We pulled the=
 sump off my engine, and pulled the oil pump, after the numerous Bathurst b=
low ups in other guys engines from this issue. See=C2=A0<a href=3D"http://w=
ww.myaustinhealey.com/mechanical_restoration.html" target=3D"_blank">http:/=
/www.myaustinhealey.<wbr>com/mechanical_restoration.<wbr>html</a>=C2=A0</di=
v><div>So your concern is valid, Richard, but the missing piece of the issu=
e is the cam gear teeth. Mine is 12. My concern was alleviated after we pul=
led the pump after 3 years driving and some 20 track days.=C2=A0</div><div>=
A 13 teeth cam drive would definitely be a concern, in an engine revved ove=
r 5,500</div><div>If anyone is running the earlier 13 teeth cam with a DW p=
ump &amp; Penrite HPR they&#39;ll have better oil pressure figures than me =
at the same rpm. :-)</div><div>Best</div><div>Chris</div><br><img src=3D"ci=
d:7F487485-6355-4324-8CCC-BDB106D325B7" alt=3D"image1.PNG"><br></div><span =
class=3D""><div><br>On 2 Sep 2016, at 11:30 AM, richard mayor &lt;<a href=
=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</=
a>&gt; wrote:<br><br></div></span><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div dir=3D"ltr=
"><div><span class=3D""><div><div>Chris,<br><br></div>I hate to be negative=
 about your good oil pressure but I fear you may have a problem.=C2=A0 I am=
 assuming that you have the &quot;high pressure&quot; oil pump from DW.<br>=
<br><br></div></span>......... Many of us racers have used the DW &quot;hig=
h pressure&quot; oil pumps and discovered that at some point, all of the te=
eth on the cam and driving spindles have been ground off to such an extent =
that we have lost all oil pressure. =C2=A0<br></div></div></blockquote><blo=
ckquote type=3D"cite"><div><span></span><br></div></blockquote></div><br>__=
____________________________<wbr>_________________<br>
rer" target=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/donate.<wbr>html</a><br>
Archive: <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/archive" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=
=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/archive</a><br>
Forums: <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/forums" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D=
"_blank">http://www.team.net/forums</a><br>
<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a><br>
<a href=3D"http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/healeys" rel=3D"noreferre=
r" target=3D"_blank">http://autox.team.net/mailman/<wbr>listinfo/healeys</a=
<br>
<br>

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[email-masked]

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---

From: Chris Dimmock <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 4 Sep 2016 20:09:50 +1000

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Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi Mike,
I didn't allow for people who fit the wrong oil pump drive for their cam.=20=

Or the wrong chain on their timing gear. Or fit no rings to their Pistons...=
.
But in this modern world of people who get burnt by coffee, and subsequently=
 sue Mc Donald's, let me add...
You need to fit the correct oil pump drive, appropriate to your 12 or 13 too=
th camshaft.=20
And while, theoretically, not having an oil pump drive engaged with your cam=
 will theoretically mean you can never wear this gear out, be aware that the=
 rest of your engine is now stuffed.  ;-)
Best
Chris
P.S.
I reckon the issue with that worn out low mileage old blokes 100/6 oil pump w=
as actually due to some young buck mechanic who revved the date out of it at=
 every service. Ferris Bueller Salter - I'm looking at you!!!! :-)

> On 4 Sep 2016, at 12:06 AM, Michael Salter <[email-masked]> wrote=
:
> It's a long time since I took "Gear Design 101" but a few things that I do=
 remember are:
> If the number of teeth on a gear is increased without changing the DP then=
 the PCD (Pitch Circle Diameter) increases.
> 2 mating teeth have to have the same DP (Diametric Pitch).
> If the PCD changes then the shaft center-line spacing must change.
>  Sooooo.. Installing a cam with an extra tooth on the oil pump drive gear M=
UST require a different oil pump drive spindle or a different block (to alte=
r the shaft center-line spacing) !!!
> B.M.C. knew this because, according to the parts book, prior to C.E.38262 a=
 different oil pump drive spindle was used.. This spindle and the cam gear w=
ould almost certainly have had a different DP.
> Therefore... It is quite reasonable that there will be catastrophic conseq=
uences if you change the cam without changing the oil pump drive spindle, th=
ings like rapid gear tooth wear, high friction, excessive end thrust etc....=
sound familiar?
> Conversely ... Installing an early spindle (designed for a 13 tooth cam ge=
ar) on a 12 tooth cam gear will result in extremely poor gear engagement and=
 very rapid wear of the teeth of both gears.
> Just sayin'.
>=20
> Michael S
> BN1 #174
>=20
>=20
>> On Fri, Sep 2, 2016 at 9:58 PM, Chris Dimmock <[email-masked]> w=
rote:
>> Hi Richard,
>> Totally valid concern, but there is one factor missing. The speed your ca=
mshaft is driving the oil pump.=20
>> I've done a lot of research on oil pumps and cam drives since 1998. I pub=
lished an article - prompted by numerous cam drive/ oil pump gear failures a=
t Bathurst in 1998 and 1999, which I'll dig out.=20
>> I run the DW pump - but I use the later cam with 12 teeth driving the oil=
 pump.=20
>> I also run the DW hardened steel cam retaining plate and DW Torrington ca=
m bearing.=20
>> The big difference is if you use the earlier camshaft with the 13 teeth o=
il pump gear. All the failures I have seen (3 after Bathurst alone) were fro=
m the earlier cams with 13 teeth driving the oil pump. It's the 13 teeth cam=
 which is the major issue.=20
>> All 6 cylinder C series camshafts have 2 gear drives on them. The gear cl=
osest to the back of the camshaft drives the oil pump. The gear closest to t=
he middle of the camshaft drives the distributor, and the distributor drive g=
ear on the camshaft always has 13 teeth on it=E2=80=A6.
>> The first is what I'll call the =E2=80=9Csedan=E2=80=9D camshaft. It was t=
ypically used in early model, low revving C Series sedans,  6 cyl A90 and A9=
5=E2=80=99s, and also 100/6's. I=E2=80=99m not sure whether or not it was us=
ed in any 3000=E2=80=99s, or when it changed. This camshaft is relatively ea=
sy to identify, as the gear closest to the back of the camshaft, which drive=
s the oil pump, has 13 teeth on it. So it is the same diameter as the distri=
butor drive gear on the camshaft =E2=80=93 both 13 teeth. Usually, these cam=
s have beautiful lobes and have never been reground. Because they came from a=
 low mileage sedan.... That's why racers regrind them & use them...
>> The other camshaft, typically found in later C Series engines and later 6=
 cyl Healey's, later Wolseleys  etc. (I'll call Healey cam) has 12 teeth to d=
rive the oil pump (and still 13 to drive the distributor). Easily identifiab=
le because the two gears on the camshaft are different diameters. It effecti=
vely drives the oil pump 8% slower than the earlier "sedan" cam at the same r=
evs.=20
>> So I'm guessing your "souvenirs" all have 12 teeth cam drives. Just like a=
ll those that blew up with the same symptoms at Bathurst in 1998 and 1999.=20=

>> Denis Welch explained to us, face to face, the lack of lubrication to the=
 cam/ oil pump gear drive issue, at Bathurst in 1998. He even drew a picture=
 of how you can tap into an oil drilling in the block, that you thread a pie=
ce of brake line into, to squirt oil directly on the camshaft/ oil pump gear=
s, to keep them lubricated. But he also said - NEVER run a 12 tooth cam/ oil=
 pump drive cam over 5,500 rpm - irrespective which oil pump you use - becau=
se 5,500 rpm on that cam is driving the oil pump closer to 6,000=20
>> If you use a standard Healey crankshaft, (so you aren=E2=80=99t going to "=
regularly" rev it over 6,000 rpm) and fit an upgraded oil pump (e.g. the Den=
is Welch hi volume pump) with a sedan 13 tooth cam - you will have huge oil p=
ressure. Because the =E2=80=9Csedan=E2=80=9D cam is driving the oil pump 8.3=
3% faster than the =E2=80=9CHealey=E2=80=9D cam at the same engine revs. =20=

>> And if you rev the engine with a =E2=80=98sedan=E2=80=99 cam at 6,000 or m=
ore for any prolonged length of time, the oil pump gear on the cam will stri=
p and you'll have no oil pressure at all. Because although the engine is pul=
ling 6,000rpm, the oil pump is being worked as if the engine was running at 6=
,500rpm =E2=80=93i.e.  8.3% faster=E2=80=A6 and if you were pulling say 6,40=
0rpm =E2=80=93 the oil pump is being driven as if you were pulling over 6,90=
0 rpm.....
>> The cam gear that drives the oil pump on the C Series engine has very poo=
r lubrication (it=E2=80=99s based on the BMC =E2=80=98splash and drip=E2=80=99=
>> You also mentioned the steel camshaft retaining plate failures. Denis Wel=
ch also offers a Hardened steel version of this plate, and a Torrington bear=
ing - which together solve the second issue of wear in this area.=20
>> The ultimate solution is the DW gun drilled cam, which makes the camshaft=
 part of the oil gallery, and lubricates under pressure the cam lobes and oi=
l pump drive gear and the distributor drive gear. These didn't become availa=
ble until around 2003.=20
>> We pulled the sump off my engine, and pulled the oil pump, after the nume=
rous Bathurst blow ups in other guys engines from this issue. See http://www=
.myaustinhealey.com/mechanical_restoration.html=20
>> So your concern is valid, Richard, but the missing piece of the issue is t=
he cam gear teeth. Mine is 12. My concern was alleviated after we pulled the=
 pump after 3 years driving and some 20 track days.=20
>> A 13 teeth cam drive would definitely be a concern, in an engine revved o=
ver 5,500
>> If anyone is running the earlier 13 teeth cam with a DW pump & Penrite HP=
R they'll have better oil pressure figures than me at the same rpm. :-)
>> Best
>> Chris
>>=20
>>=20
>>> On 2 Sep 2016, at 11:30 AM, richard mayor <[email-masked]> wrote:=

>>>=20
>>> Chris,
>>>=20
>>> I hate to be negative about your good oil pressure but I fear you may ha=
ve a problem.  I am assuming that you have the "high pressure" oil pump from=
 DW.
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>> ......... Many of us racers have used the DW "high pressure" oil pumps a=
nd discovered that at some point, all of the teeth on the cam and driving sp=
indles have been ground off to such an extent that we have lost all oil pres=
sure. =20
>> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/healeys/michael=
[email-masked]
> If you can't fix it with a hammer, you've got an electrical problem.

--Apple-Mail-F0356FF1-6DD6-49D8-8373-2DBDF73512E7
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Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"content-type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3D=
utf-8"></head><body dir=3D"auto"><div>Hi Mike,</div><div id=3D"AppleMailSign=
ature">I didn't allow for people who fit the wrong oil pump drive for their c=
am.&nbsp;</div><div id=3D"AppleMailSignature">Or the wrong chain on their ti=
ming gear. Or fit no rings to their Pistons....</div><div id=3D"AppleMailSig=
nature">But in this modern world of people who get burnt by coffee, and subs=
equently sue Mc Donald's, let me add...</div><div id=3D"AppleMailSignature">=
You need to fit the correct oil pump drive, appropriate to your 12 or 13 too=
th camshaft.&nbsp;</div><div id=3D"AppleMailSignature">And while, theoretica=
lly, not having an oil pump drive engaged with your cam will theoretically m=
ean you can never wear this gear out, be aware that the rest of your engine i=
s now stuffed. &nbsp;;-)</div><div id=3D"AppleMailSignature">Best</div><div i=
d=3D"AppleMailSignature">Chris</div><div id=3D"AppleMailSignature">P.S.</div=
><div id=3D"AppleMailSignature">I reckon the issue with that worn out low mi=
leage old blokes 100/6 oil pump was actually due to some young buck mechanic=
 who revved the date out of it at every service. Ferris Bueller Salter - I'm=
 looking at you!!!! :-)</div><div><br>On 4 Sep 2016, at 12:06 AM, Michael Sa=
lter &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]<=
/a>&gt; wrote:<br><br></div><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div><div dir=3D"ltr">=
<div style=3D"font-family:comic sans ms,sans-serif;font-size:small" class=3D=
"gmail_default">Just a second you guys.... there is something missing here.<=
br></div><div style=3D"font-family:comic sans ms,sans-serif;font-size:small"=
 class=3D"gmail_default">It's a long time since I took "Gear Design 101" but=
 a few things that I do remember are:<br><ol><li>If the number of teeth on a=
 gear is increased without changing the DP then the PCD (Pitch Circle Diamet=
er) increases.</li><li>2 mating teeth have to have the same DP (Diametric Pi=
tch).<br></li><li>If the PCD changes then the shaft center-line spacing must=
 change. </li></ol></div><div style=3D"font-family:comic sans ms,sans-serif;=
font-size:small" class=3D"gmail_default">&nbsp;<u>Sooooo..</u> Installing a c=
am with an extra tooth on the oil pump drive gear MUST require a different o=
il pump drive spindle or a different block (to alter the shaft center-line s=
pacing) !!!<br></div><div style=3D"font-family:comic sans ms,sans-serif;font=
-size:small" class=3D"gmail_default">B.M.C. knew this because, according to t=
he parts book, prior to <span id=3D"gmail-grdProductDetails__ctl133_lblAppli=
cation">C.E.38262 a different oil pump drive spindle was used.. This spindle=
 and the cam gear would almost certainly have had a different DP.<br></span>=
</div><div style=3D"font-family:comic sans ms,sans-serif;font-size:small" cl=
ass=3D"gmail_default"><span id=3D"gmail-grdProductDetails__ctl133_lblApplica=
tion"><u>Therefore...</u> It is quite reasonable that there will be catastro=
phic consequences if you change the cam without changing the oil pump drive s=
pindle, things like rapid gear tooth wear, high friction, excessive end thru=
st etc....sound familiar?<br></span></div><div style=3D"font-family:comic sa=
ns ms,sans-serif;font-size:small" class=3D"gmail_default"><span id=3D"gmail-=
grdProductDetails__ctl133_lblApplication"><u>Conversely </u>... Installing a=
n early spindle (designed for a 13 tooth cam gear) on a 12 tooth cam gear wi=
ll result in extremely poor gear engagement and very rapid wear of the teeth=
 of both gears.<br></span></div><div style=3D"font-family:comic sans ms,sans=
-serif;font-size:small" class=3D"gmail_default"><span id=3D"gmail-grdProduct=
Details__ctl133_lblApplication">Just sayin'.<br></span></div><div style=3D"f=
ont-family:comic sans ms,sans-serif;font-size:small" class=3D"gmail_default"=
><span id=3D"gmail-grdProductDetails__ctl133_lblApplication"><br>Michael S<b=
r></span></div><div style=3D"font-family:comic sans ms,sans-serif;font-size:=
small" class=3D"gmail_default"><span id=3D"gmail-grdProductDetails__ctl133_l=
blApplication">BN1 #174<br></span></div><div style=3D"font-family:comic sans=
 ms,sans-serif;font-size:small" class=3D"gmail_default"><span id=3D"gmail-gr=
dProductDetails__ctl133_lblApplication"><br></span></div></div><div class=3D=
"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Fri, Sep 2, 2016 at 9:58 PM,=
 Chris Dimmock <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]=
om" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><bloc=
kquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc=
 solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"auto"><div><div style=3D"color:rgb(69,6=
9,69);text-decoration:-webkit-letterpress"><span style=3D"background-color:r=
gba(255,255,255,0)">Hi Richard,</span></div><div style=3D"color:rgb(69,69,69=
);text-decoration:-webkit-letterpress">Totally valid concern, but there is o=
ne factor missing. The speed your camshaft is driving the oil pump.&nbsp;</d=
iv><div style=3D"color:rgb(69,69,69);text-decoration:-webkit-letterpress"><s=
pan style=3D"background-color:rgba(255,255,255,0)">I've done a lot of resear=
ch on oil pumps and cam drives since 1998. I published an article - prompted=
 by numerous cam drive/ oil pump gear failures at Bathurst in 1998 and 1999,=
 which I'll dig out.&nbsp;</span></div><div style=3D"color:rgb(69,69,69);tex=
t-decoration:-webkit-letterpress">I run the DW pump - but I use the later&nb=
sp;cam with 12&nbsp;teeth driving the oil pump.&nbsp;</div><div style=3D"col=
or:rgb(69,69,69);text-decoration:-webkit-letterpress">I also run the DW hard=
ened steel cam retaining plate and DW Torrington cam bearing.&nbsp;</div><di=
v style=3D"color:rgb(69,69,69);text-decoration:-webkit-letterpress">These ar=
e all important points which address your concern. &nbsp;</div><div style=3D=
"color:rgb(69,69,69);text-decoration:-webkit-letterpress">The big difference=
 is if you use the earlier camshaft with the 13 teeth oil pump gear. All the=
 failures I have seen (3 after Bathurst alone) were from the earlier cams wi=
th 13 teeth driving the oil pump. It's the 13 teeth cam which is the major i=
ssue.&nbsp;</div><div style=3D"color:rgb(69,69,69);text-decoration:-webkit-l=
etterpress">It's about how fast you are driving the oil pump.&nbsp;</div><di=
v style=3D"color:rgb(69,69,69);text-decoration:-webkit-letterpress"><span st=
yle=3D"background-color:rgba(255,255,255,0)">Here's some background for ever=
yone else for completeness.&nbsp;</span></div><div style=3D"color:rgb(69,69,=
69);text-decoration:-webkit-letterpress"><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mar=
gin:0in 0in 0.0001pt"><span style=3D"background-color:rgba(255,255,255,0)">A=
ll 6 cylinder C series camshafts have 2 gear drives on them. The gear closes=
t to the back of the camshaft drives the oil pump. The gear closest to the m=
iddle of the camshaft drives the distributor, and the distributor drive gear=
 on the camshaft always has 13 teeth on it=E2=80=A6.<u></u><u></u></span></p=
><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt"><span style=3D"bac=
kground-color:rgba(255,255,255,0)">But there are 2 variants of the oil pump d=
rive gear on the camshaft.</span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin:=
0in 0in 0.0001pt"><span style=3D"background-color:rgba(255,255,255,0)">The f=
irst is what I'll call the =E2=80=9Csedan=E2=80=9D camshaft. It was typicall=
y used in early model, low revving C Series sedans, &nbsp;6 cyl A90 and A95=E2=
=80=99s, and also 100/6's. I=E2=80=99m not sure whether or not it was used i=
n any 3000=E2=80=99s, or when it changed. This camshaft is relatively easy t=
o identify, as the gear closest to the back of the camshaft, which drives th=
e oil pump, has 13 teeth on it. So it is the same diameter as the distributo=
r drive gear on the camshaft =E2=80=93 both 13 teeth. Usually, these cams ha=
ve beautiful lobes and have never been reground. Because they came from a lo=
w mileage sedan.... That's why racers regrind them &amp; use them...<u></u><=
u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt"><s=
pan style=3D"background-color:rgba(255,255,255,0)">The other camshaft, typic=
ally found in later C Series engines and later 6 cyl Healey's, later Wolsele=
ys&nbsp; etc. (I'll call Healey cam) has 12 teeth to drive the oil pump (and=
 still 13 to drive the distributor). Easily identifiable because the two gea=
rs on the camshaft are different diameters. It effectively drives the oil pu=
mp 8% slower than the earlier "sedan" cam at the same revs.&nbsp;</span></p>=
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt"><span style=3D"back=
ground-color:rgba(255,255,255,0)">So I'm guessing your "souvenirs" all have 1=
2 teeth cam drives. Just like all those that blew up with the same symptoms a=
t Bathurst in 1998 and 1999.&nbsp;</span></p></div><div style=3D"color:rgb(6=
9,69,69);text-decoration:-webkit-letterpress"><span style=3D"background-colo=
r:rgba(255,255,255,0)">Denis Welch explained to us, face to face, the lack o=
f lubrication to the cam/ oil pump gear drive issue, at Bathurst in 1998. He=
 even drew a picture of how you can tap into an oil drilling in the block, t=
hat you thread a piece of brake line into, to squirt oil directly on the cam=
shaft/ oil pump gears, to keep them lubricated. But he also said - NEVER run=
 a 12 tooth cam/ oil pump drive cam over 5,500 rpm - irrespective which oil p=
ump you use - because 5,500 rpm on that cam is driving the oil pump closer t=
o 6,000&nbsp;</span></div><div style=3D"color:rgb(69,69,69);text-decoration:=
-webkit-letterpress"><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt=
"><span style=3D"background-color:rgba(255,255,255,0)">If you use a standard=
 Healey crankshaft, (so you aren=E2=80=99t going to "regularly" rev it over 6=
,000 rpm) and fit an upgraded oil pump (e.g. the Denis Welch hi volume pump)=
 with a sedan 13 tooth cam - you will have huge oil pressure. Because the =E2=
=80=9Csedan=E2=80=9D cam is driving the oil pump 8.33% faster than the =E2=80=
=9CHealey=E2=80=9D cam at the same engine revs.&nbsp;&nbsp;<u></u><u></u></s=
pan></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt"><span style=
=3D"background-color:rgba(255,255,255,0)">And if you rev the engine with a =E2=
=80=98sedan=E2=80=99 cam at 6,000 or more for any prolonged length of time, t=
he oil pump gear on the cam will strip and you'll have no oil pressure at al=
l. Because although the engine is pulling 6,000rpm, the oil pump is being wo=
rked as if the engine was running at 6,500rpm =E2=80=93i.e.&nbsp; 8.3% faste=
r=E2=80=A6 and if you were pulling say 6,400rpm =E2=80=93 the oil pump is be=
ing driven as if you were pulling over 6,900 rpm.....<u></u><u></u></span></=
p><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt"><span style=3D"ba=
ckground-color:rgba(255,255,255,0)">The cam gear that drives the oil pump on=
 the C Series engine has very poor lubrication (it=E2=80=99s based on the BM=
C =E2=80=98splash and drip=E2=80=99 lubrication theory). There is no pressur=
e fed oil to the two meshed gears =E2=80=93 the oil pump drive gear on the c=
am, and the oil pump drive spindle gear. So as you rev the engine&nbsp; hard=
er, the =E2=80=9Cdripped and splashed oil=E2=80=9D gets thrown off the gears=
, and they run dry, wearing through the hardening relatively quickly, at sus=
tained high RPM. This process is all dramatically increased if you are runni=
ng a =E2=80=9Csedan=E2=80=9D cam, as the oil pump gear on the cam is driving=
 the oil pump spindle gear 8% faster....</span></p></div><div style=3D"color=
:rgb(69,69,69);text-decoration:-webkit-letterpress">You also mentioned the s=
teel camshaft retaining plate failures. Denis Welch also offers a Hardened s=
teel version of this plate, and a Torrington bearing - which together solve t=
he second issue of wear in this area.&nbsp;</div><div style=3D"color:rgb(69,=
69,69);text-decoration:-webkit-letterpress">The ultimate solution is the DW g=
un drilled cam, which makes the camshaft part of the oil gallery, and lubric=
ates under pressure the cam lobes and oil pump drive gear and the distributo=
r drive gear. These didn't become available until around 2003.&nbsp;</div><d=
iv>We pulled the sump off my engine, and pulled the oil pump, after the nume=
rous Bathurst blow ups in other guys engines from this issue. See&nbsp;<a hr=
ef=3D"http://www.myaustinhealey.com/mechanical_restoration.html" target=3D"_=
blank">http://www.myaustinhealey.<wbr>com/mechanical_restoration.<wbr>html</=
a>&nbsp;</div><div>So your concern is valid, Richard, but the missing piece o=
f the issue is the cam gear teeth. Mine is 12. My concern was alleviated aft=
er we pulled the pump after 3 years driving and some 20 track days.&nbsp;</d=
iv><div>A 13 teeth cam drive would definitely be a concern, in an engine rev=
ved over 5,500</div><div>If anyone is running the earlier 13 teeth cam with a=
 DW pump &amp; Penrite HPR they'll have better oil pressure figures than me a=
t the same rpm. :-)</div><div>Best</div><div>Chris</div><br>&lt;image1.PNG&g=
t;<br></div><span class=3D""><div><br>On 2 Sep 2016, at 11:30 AM, richard ma=
yor &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">boyracer4=
[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:<br><br></div></span><blockquote type=3D"cite"><d=
iv dir=3D"ltr"><div><span class=3D""><div><div>Chris,<br><br></div>I hate to=
 be negative about your good oil pressure but I fear you may have a problem.=
&nbsp; I am assuming that you have the "high pressure" oil pump from DW.<br>=
<br><br></div></span>......... Many of us racers have used the DW "high pres=
sure" oil pumps and discovered that at some point, all of the teeth on the c=
am and driving spindles have been ground off to such an extent that we have l=
ost all oil pressure. &nbsp;<br></div></div></blockquote><blockquote type=3D=
"cite"><div><span></span><br></div></blockquote></div><br>__________________=
____________<wbr>_________________<br>
Support <a href=3D"http://team.net">Team.Net</a> <a href=3D"http://www.team.=
net/donate.html" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/do=
nate.<wbr>html</a><br>
Archive: <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/archive" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D=
"_blank">http://www.team.net/archive</a><br>
Forums: <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/forums" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"=
_blank">http://www.team.net/forums</a><br>
<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a><br>
<a href=3D"http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/healeys" rel=3D"noreferrer=
" target=3D"_blank">http://autox.team.net/mailman/<wbr>listinfo/healeys</a><=
br>
<br>
/[email-masked]" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">http://autox.=
team.net/mailman/<wbr>options/healeys/michaelsalter@<wbr>gmail.com</a><br>
<br>
<br></blockquote></div><br><br clear=3D"all"><br>-- <br><div class=3D"gmail_=
signature" data-smartmail=3D"gmail_signature"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div><div dir=
=3D"ltr"><i><font size=3D"2"><span style=3D"color:black">If you can't fix it=
 with a hammer, you've got an electrical problem.</span></font></i><br><br><=
div></div><div></div><div></div></div></div></div></div>
</div>
</div></blockquote></body></html>=

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[email-masked]

--===============0837166167235958958==--

---

From: Chris Dimmock <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2016 03:24:09 +1000

--===============2554598614305406612==
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	charset=utf-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi Jim.=20
Technically, there is no gold inside Healey engines, but when you look at th=
e price of some engine rebuilds, you'd swear there should be! ;-)
If there's brass in the oil, and dropping oil pressure, pull the rocker (val=
ve) cover off and see if the rocker bushes have failed. That's the only bras=
s I can think of that affects oil pressure.=20
There are brass little end bearings, but they won't affect oil pressure.=20
So first place I'd Look is inside the rocker cover. If you can spin the engi=
ne over, with the rocker cover off,  then you can do the "how far does oil s=
quirt" test. Don't wear a nice shirt.=20
Good luck Jim
Best
Chris

> On 9 Sep 2016, at 2:48 AM, Jim Frakes <[email-masked]> wrote:
>=20
> Gents,
> Two weeks ago I lost an engine in my BJ8. The OEW BJ8 I have had for sever=
al years and it was getting tired. Engine ran fine, just the car need to hav=
e a complete restoration.
> It just was starting to look ratty after 22 years. I picked up the red one=
 up to use while the OEW was under way.
>  Reportedly, the P.O. said the P.P.O. had the engine rebuilt by Healey Sur=
geons, but not sure when.
> It looked very good, ran good, 60 PSI oil pressure, but needed a rebuilt t=
ranny, which I replaced. After two years on the road and about 4,000 miles,
> In late HOT, MUGGY, July, after about 300 miles of pretty hard driving (no=
t racing), I noticed the oil PSI dropped to 50, Within another 100 miles, to=
 40, then within less than 50 miles, to 30.
> We Shut it down and went for the trailer. Dipstick showed fine Gold flakes=
. Dropping the pan, it was full of gold but none I could sell. To my surpris=
e, there was a DW Pump.
> After reading the thread, I suspect it may be the cause. We have not torn i=
t down all the way yet as I spent the time replacing the engine with another=
 that was ready to go.
> All that being said, I will get to the tear down in early October, hopeful=
ly.
> As I understand, I am looking for the type of pump designation, rotary or g=
ear; looking for the number of teeth on the cam 12 or 13, looking for excess=
 wear on the gear teeth and the thrust washer.
> Anything else to look for?
> =20
> Jim
> =20
> From: Healeys [mailto:[email-masked]] On Behalf Of Chris D=
immock
> Sent: Friday, September 02, 2016 9:59 PM
> To: richard mayor
> Cc: healeys
> Totally valid concern, but there is one factor missing. The speed your cam=
shaft is driving the oil pump.=20
> I've done a lot of research on oil pumps and cam drives since 1998. I publ=
ished an article - prompted by numerous cam drive/ oil pump gear failures at=
 Bathurst in 1998 and 1999, which I'll dig out.=20
> I run the DW pump - but I use the later cam with 12 teeth driving the oil p=
ump.=20
> I also run the DW hardened steel cam retaining plate and DW Torrington cam=
 bearing.=20
> The big difference is if you use the earlier camshaft with the 13 teeth oi=
l pump gear. All the failures I have seen (3 after Bathurst alone) were from=
 the earlier cams with 13 teeth driving the oil pump. It's the 13 teeth cam w=
hich is the major issue.=20
> All 6 cylinder C series camshafts have 2 gear drives on them. The gear clo=
sest to the back of the camshaft drives the oil pump. The gear closest to th=
e middle of the camshaft drives the distributor, and the distributor drive g=
ear on the camshaft always has 13 teeth on it=E2=80=A6.
> The other camshaft, typically found in later C Series engines and later 6 c=
yl Healey's, later Wolseleys  etc. (I'll call Healey cam) has 12 teeth to dr=
ive the oil pump (and still 13 to drive the distributor). Easily identifiabl=
e because the two gears on the camshaft are different diameters. It effectiv=
ely drives the oil pump 8% slower than the earlier "sedan" cam at the same r=
evs.=20

> Denis Welch explained to us, face to face, the lack of lubrication to the c=
am/ oil pump gear drive issue, at Bathurst in 1998. He even drew a picture o=
f how you can tap into an oil drilling in the block, that you thread a piece=
 of brake line into, to squirt oil directly on the camshaft/ oil pump gears,=
 to keep them lubricated. But he also said - NEVER run a 12 tooth cam/ oil p=
ump drive cam over 5,500 rpm - irrespective which oil pump you use - because=
 5,500 rpm on that cam is driving the oil pump closer to 6,000=20

> The cam gear that drives the oil pump on the C Series engine has very poor=
> You also mentioned the steel camshaft retaining plate failures. Denis Welc=
h also offers a Hardened steel version of this plate, and a Torrington beari=
ng - which together solve the second issue of wear in this area.=20
> The ultimate solution is the DW gun drilled cam, which makes the camshaft p=
art of the oil gallery, and lubricates under pressure the cam lobes and oil p=
ump drive gear and the distributor drive gear. These didn't become available=
 until around 2003.=20
> We pulled the sump off my engine, and pulled the oil pump, after the numer=
ous Bathurst blow ups in other guys engines from this issue. See http://www.=
myaustinhealey.com/mechanical_restoration.html=20
> A 13 teeth cam drive would definitely be a concern, in an engine revved ov=
er 5,500
> If anyone is running the earlier 13 teeth cam with a DW pump & Penrite HPR=
> =20
> CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE=20
> The information contained in this e-mail is intended only for the use of t=
he individual or entity to which it is addressed and it may contain informat=
ion that is privileged or confidential. If the reader of this message is not=
 the intended recipient (or the employee or agent responsible to deliver it t=
o the intended recipient), you are hereby notified that any dissemination, d=
istribution, or copying of this communication is prohibited. If you have rec=
eived this e-mail in error, please notify us by telephone at the number list=
ed above or by return e-mail.

--Apple-Mail-57DF3551-1BD2-442F-B68D-0692417E0769
	charset=utf-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"content-type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3D=
utf-8"></head><body dir=3D"auto"><div>Hi Jim.&nbsp;</div><div id=3D"AppleMai=
lSignature">Technically, there is no gold inside Healey engines, but when yo=
u look at the price of some engine rebuilds, you'd swear there should be! ;-=
)</div><div id=3D"AppleMailSignature">If there's brass in the oil, and dropp=
ing oil pressure, pull the rocker (valve) cover off and see if the rocker bu=
shes have failed. That's the only brass I can think of that affects oil pres=
sure.&nbsp;</div><div id=3D"AppleMailSignature">There are brass little end b=
earings, but they won't affect oil pressure.&nbsp;</div><div id=3D"AppleMail=
Signature">So first place I'd Look is inside the rocker cover. If you can sp=
in the engine over, with the rocker cover off, &nbsp;then you can do the "ho=
w far does oil squirt" test. Don't wear a nice shirt.&nbsp;</div><div id=3D"=
AppleMailSignature">Good luck Jim</div><div id=3D"AppleMailSignature">Best</=
div><div id=3D"AppleMailSignature">Chris</div><div><br>On 9 Sep 2016, at 2:4=
8 AM, Jim Frakes &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">JimFrakes@f=
rakes-eng.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br><br></div><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div><me=
ta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3Dutf-8"><meta n=
ame=3D"Generator" content=3D"Microsoft Word 12 (filtered medium)"><!--[if !m=
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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--> <meta name=3D"application-name" content=3D=
"gfidisc.frakes-eng.com "> <div class=3D"WordSection1"><p class=3D"MsoNormal=
"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans=
-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Gents, <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNorm=
al"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sa=
ns-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Two weeks ago I lost an engine in my BJ8. The O=
EW BJ8 I have had for several years and it was getting tired. Engine ran fin=
e, just the car need to have a complete restoration. <o:p></o:p></span></p><=
p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Cali=
bri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">It just was starting to look=
 ratty after 22 years. I picked up the red one up to use while the OEW was u=
nder way. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-s=
ize:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F4=
97D">&nbsp;Reportedly, the P.O. said the P.P.O. had the engine rebuilt by He=
aley Surgeons, but not sure when. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNorma=
l"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;san=
s-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">It looked very good, ran good, 60 PSI oil press=
ure, but needed a rebuilt tranny, which I replaced. After two years on the r=
oad and about 4,000 miles, <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><spa=
n style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif=
&quot;;color:#1F497D">In late HOT, MUGGY, July, after about 300 miles of pre=
tty hard driving (not racing), I noticed the oil PSI dropped to 50, Within a=
nother 100 miles, to 40, then within less than 50 miles, to 30. <o:p></o:p><=
/span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family=
:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">We Shut it down a=
nd went for the trailer. Dipstick showed fine Gold flakes. Dropping the pan,=
 it was full of gold but none I could sell. To my surprise, there was a DW P=
ump. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:1=
1.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">=
After reading the thread, I suspect it may be the cause. We have not torn it=
 down all the way yet as I spent the time replacing the engine with another t=
hat was ready to go. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span styl=
e=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;=
;color:#1F497D">All that being said, I will get to the tear down in early Oc=
tober, hopefully. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D=
"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;col=
or:#1F497D">As I understand, I am looking for the type of pump designation, r=
otary or gear; looking for the number of teeth on the cam 12 or 13, looking f=
or excess wear on the gear teeth and the thrust washer. <o:p></o:p></span></=
p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;C=
alibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Anything else to look for=
? <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0=
pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:=
p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-siz=
e:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497=
D">Jim <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"fon=
t-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#=
1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div><div style=3D"border:none;border-to=
p:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in"><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><=
span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-ser=
if&quot;">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;=
Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"> Healeys [<a href=3D"mailto:healeys-bou=
[email-masked]">mailto:[email-masked]</a>] <b>On Behalf=
 Of </b>Chris Dimmock<br><b>Sent:</b> Friday, September 02, 2016 9:59 PM<br>=
<b>To:</b> richard mayor<br><b>Cc:</b> healeys<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Heale=
ys] Oil pressure in a BJ8<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=3D"MsoNo=
rmal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"c=
olor:#454545">Hi Richard,<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNor=
mal"><span style=3D"color:#454545">Totally valid concern, but there is one f=
actor missing. The speed your camshaft is driving the oil pump.&nbsp;<o:p></=
o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#45454=
5">I've done a lot of research on oil pumps and cam drives since 1998. I pub=
lished an article - prompted by numerous cam drive/ oil pump gear failures a=
t Bathurst in 1998 and 1999, which I'll dig out.&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>=
</div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#454545">I run the DW=
 pump - but I use the later&nbsp;cam with 12&nbsp;teeth driving the oil pump=
.&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D=
"color:#454545">I also run the DW hardened steel cam retaining plate and DW T=
orrington cam bearing.&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3D"Mso=
Normal"><span style=3D"color:#454545">These are all important points which a=
ddress your concern. &nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoN=
ormal"><span style=3D"color:#454545">The big difference is if you use the ea=
rlier camshaft with the 13 teeth oil pump gear. All the failures I have seen=
 (3 after Bathurst alone) were from the earlier cams with 13 teeth driving t=
he oil pump. It's the 13 teeth cam which is the major issue.&nbsp;<o:p></o:p=
></span></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#454545">=
It's about how fast you are driving the oil pump.&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p=
></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#454545">Here's some=
 background for everyone else for completeness.&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p><=
/div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#454545">All 6 cylinde=
r C series camshafts have 2 gear drives on them. The gear closest to the bac=
k of the camshaft drives the oil pump. The gear closest to the middle of the=
 camshaft drives the distributor, and the distributor drive gear on the cams=
haft always has 13 teeth on it=E2=80=A6. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3D"M=
soNormal"><span style=3D"color:#454545">But there are 2 variants of the oil p=
ump drive gear on the camshaft.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal">=
<span style=3D"color:#454545">The first is what I'll call the =E2=80=9Csedan=
=E2=80=9D camshaft. It was typically used in early model, low revving C Seri=
es sedans, &nbsp;6 cyl A90 and A95=E2=80=99s, and also 100/6's. I=E2=80=99m n=
ot sure whether or not it was used in any 3000=E2=80=99s, or when it changed=
. This camshaft is relatively easy to identify, as the gear closest to the b=
ack of the camshaft, which drives the oil pump, has 13 teeth on it. So it is=
 the same diameter as the distributor drive gear on the camshaft =E2=80=93 b=
oth 13 teeth. Usually, these cams have beautiful lobes and have never been r=
eground. Because they came from a low mileage sedan.... That's why racers re=
grind them &amp; use them... <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><s=
pan style=3D"color:#454545">The other camshaft, typically found in later C S=
eries engines and later 6 cyl Healey's, later Wolseleys&nbsp; etc. (I'll cal=
l Healey cam) has 12 teeth to drive the oil pump (and still 13 to drive the d=
istributor). Easily identifiable because the two gears on the camshaft are d=
ifferent diameters. It effectively drives the oil pump 8% slower than the ea=
rlier "sedan" cam at the same revs.&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3D"M=
soNormal"><span style=3D"color:#454545">So I'm guessing your "souvenirs" all=
 have 12 teeth cam drives. Just like all those that blew up with the same sy=
mptoms at Bathurst in 1998 and 1999.&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><=
p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#454545">Denis Welch explained to=
 us, face to face, the lack of lubrication to the cam/ oil pump gear drive i=
ssue, at Bathurst in 1998. He even drew a picture of how you can tap into an=
 oil drilling in the block, that you thread a piece of brake line into, to s=
quirt oil directly on the camshaft/ oil pump gears, to keep them lubricated.=
 But he also said - NEVER run a 12 tooth cam/ oil pump drive cam over 5,500 r=
pm - irrespective which oil pump you use - because 5,500 rpm on that cam is d=
riving the oil pump closer to 6,000&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p=
 class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#454545">If you use a standard Hea=
ley crankshaft, (so you aren=E2=80=99t going to "regularly" rev it over 6,00=
0 rpm) and fit an upgraded oil pump (e.g. the Denis Welch hi volume pump) wi=
th a sedan 13 tooth cam - you will have huge oil pressure. Because the =E2=80=
=9Csedan=E2=80=9D cam is driving the oil pump 8.33% faster than the =E2=80=9C=
Healey=E2=80=9D cam at the same engine revs.&nbsp;&nbsp; <o:p></o:p></span><=
/p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#454545">And if you rev the e=
ngine with a =E2=80=98sedan=E2=80=99 cam at 6,000 or more for any prolonged l=
ength of time, the oil pump gear on the cam will strip and you'll have no oi=
l pressure at all. Because although the engine is pulling 6,000rpm, the oil p=
ump is being worked as if the engine was running at 6,500rpm =E2=80=93i.e.&n=
bsp; 8.3% faster=E2=80=A6 and if you were pulling say 6,400rpm =E2=80=93 the=
 oil pump is being driven as if you were pulling over 6,900 rpm..... <o:p></=
o:p></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#454545">The cam g=
ear that drives the oil pump on the C Series engine has very poor lubricatio=
n (it=E2=80=99s based on the BMC =E2=80=98splash and drip=E2=80=99 lubricati=
on theory). There is no pressure fed oil to the two meshed gears =E2=80=93 t=
he oil pump drive gear on the cam, and the oil pump drive spindle gear. So a=
s you rev the engine&nbsp; harder, the =E2=80=9Cdripped and splashed oil=E2=80=
=9D gets thrown off the gears, and they run dry, wearing through the hardeni=
ng relatively quickly, at sustained high RPM. This process is all dramatical=
ly increased if you are running a =E2=80=9Csedan=E2=80=9D cam, as the oil pu=
mp gear on the cam is driving the oil pump spindle gear 8% faster....<o:p></=
o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#45454=
5">You also mentioned the steel camshaft retaining plate failures. Denis Wel=
ch also offers a Hardened steel version of this plate, and a Torrington bear=
ing - which together solve the second issue of wear in this area.&nbsp;<o:p>=
</o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#454=
545">The ultimate solution is the DW gun drilled cam, which makes the camsha=
ft part of the oil gallery, and lubricates under pressure the cam lobes and o=
il pump drive gear and the distributor drive gear. These didn't become avail=
able until around 2003.&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3D"Ms=
oNormal">We pulled the sump off my engine, and pulled the oil pump, after th=
e numerous Bathurst blow ups in other guys engines from this issue. See&nbsp=
;<a href=3D"http://www.myaustinhealey.com/mechanical_restoration.html">http:=
//www.myaustinhealey.com/mechanical_restoration.html</a>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p=
></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">So your concern is valid, Richard, but th=
e missing piece of the issue is the cam gear teeth. Mine is 12. My concern w=
as alleviated after we pulled the pump after 3 years driving and some 20 tra=
ck days.&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">A 13 teeth ca=
m drive would definitely be a concern, in an engine revved over 5,500<o:p></=
o:p></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">If anyone is running the earlier 1=
3 teeth cam with a DW pump &amp; Penrite HPR they'll have better oil pressur=
e figures than me at the same rpm. :-)<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3D"=
MsoNormal">Best<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">Chris<o:p></=
o:p></p></div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><br>&lt;image005.png&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>=
</div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt"><br>On 2 Se=
p 2016, at 11:30 AM, richard mayor &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]=
om">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div><blockquote sty=
le=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt"><div><div><div><div><p class=3D"=
MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt">Chris,<o:p></o:p></p></div><p clas=
s=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt">I hate to be negative about y=
our good oil pressure but I fear you may have a problem.&nbsp; I am assuming=
 that you have the "high pressure" oil pump from DW.<br><br><o:p></o:p></p><=
/div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">......... Many of us racers have used the DW "hi=
gh pressure" oil pumps and discovered that at some point, all of the teeth o=
n the cam and driving spindles have been ground off to such an extent that w=
e have lost all oil pressure. &nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p></div></div></blockquote>=
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt"><div><p class=3D"=
MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p></div></blockquote></div><p class=3D"gfidisc=
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