Subject: Re: [Healeys] Fuel pumps (AGAIN!)

From: <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 2 Dec 2018 15:20:16 +0000 (UTC)

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No, I do not recall. It was a friend's car & about 10 years ago. I was not =
involved with the application which was probably done about 10 years before=
 the problem manifested itself.Gary

-----Original Message-----
From: Bob Spidell <[email-masked]>
To: healeys <[email-masked]>
Sent: Sat, Dec 1, 2018 1:03 pm
Subject: Re: [Healeys] Fuel pumps (AGAIN!)

 Any idea what brand sealant was used?=C2=A0 The BH product has very specif=
ic application instructions involving a cleaner and an etching compound bef=
ore the sealant is applied.=C2=A0 Like any 'paint,' the job is 90% preparat=
ion.=C2=A0 IIRC, both of my tanks were new or near-new when we applied the =
sealant.
  On 12/1/2018 7:01 AM, [email-masked] wrote:
 =20
=20
 Another sloshing horror story. We were 600 mikes from home & in the Rocky =
Mountains. A friend's 3000 had been running fine until one day in the mount=
ains. It began to run fine for about 15-20 minutes, then slowly die. A few =
minutes later it would restart & run fine for 15-20 minutes & die again. It=
 repeated this pattern over & over. Of course we checked adjusted &/or repl=
aced everything we could. The problem turned out to be the sloshing sealer =
that had separated in a large sheet from the bottom of the tank. With  the =
pump running the sheet would be sucked up to the pickup & the pump was bein=
g starved for fuel. When the engine died & the ignition was shut off the sh=
eet of sealant would slowly sink back down to the bottom of the tank & the =
pump could again deliver fuel until the sheet was again drawn up to the pic=
k up.=C2=A0 Gary Hodson=20
=20
 -----Original Message-----
 From: Bob Spidell <[email-masked]>
 To: healeys <[email-masked]>
 Sent: Fri, Nov 30, 2018 10:47 pm
 Subject: Re: [Healeys] Fuel pumps (AGAIN!)
=20
   Moah DATA!=C2=A0 Yeah! Definitely makes sense.=C2=A0 Both my Healeys hav=
e had their tanks sloshed with Bill Hirsch sealer (I heard Bill Hirsch died=
 recently, BTW).=C2=A0 The BJ8's tank was done at least 20 years ago, the B=
N2's more recently.=C2=A0 I inspect them occasionally and have seen no evid=
ence of any fragments of the sealer either coming out of the feed pipe or i=
n the pumps when I pull them apart.=C2=A0 Also, when the last pump stopped =
and I fitted my last spare pump it started pumping enthusiastically--and I =
drove it for 10 or so miles--so if the pickup tube in the tank is plugged I=
 wouldn't expect that, but I'll have a look inside the tanks. I've reported=
 it before, but when restoring the BN2 we bought a used tank.=C2=A0 We had =
an issues with an extremely erratic pump: no pumping, heavy thrashing (like=
 fibrillation you get when the tank runs dry or you  have an inlet leak) an=
d occasionally, normal pumping.=C2=A0 We blew out the lines, tried several =
needle valves and Grose jets but to no avail.=C2=A0 Finally, my dad had a h=
unch and cut the pickup tube out of the tank.=C2=A0 Sure enough, there was =
a lot of corrosion and a pinhole leak in the tube near where it exited the =
tank.=C2=A0 Dad speculated that the flux used to solder the tube in the tan=
k was corrosive and not cleaned off correctly (well, it was a 40-year-old t=
ank at the time).=C2=A0 Something to put in the diagnostics database. Bob
   On 11/28/2018 8:26 PM, Michael Salter wrote:
 =20
=20
     This discussion about fuel pumps has revived something from the old gr=
ey matter ... To those mentioning repeated failures one problem that will c=
ause premature failure is restrictions in the supply to the pump. The way t=
hese pumps work is that the spring in the pump provides the pressure. As th=
e pressure on the output side of the pump decreases the diaphragm moves dow=
n to a point where the points close, that energizes the coil to pull the ar=
mature up against the spring pressure to the point where the points "flip" =
and open to stop the current flow through the coil. HOWEVER if there is a r=
estriction in the fuel line feeding the pump the low pressure at the pump i=
nlet can create a partial vacuum which will prevent the armature from risin=
g fully and thus the points from "flipping" . When this happens the coil re=
mains energized and "cooks" in a short time thus ruining the pump. I discov=
ered this while trying to resolve a delivery problem in a car that had had =
the tank "sloshed". The sloshing compound had coated the gauze filter=C2=A0=
 inside the tank severly restricting the flow.=C2=A0 The test was to put an=
 analogue ammeter on the pump electrical supply which showed the prolonged =
current flow to the pump.=20
  M =20
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[email-masked]

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<font color=3D'black' size=3D'2' face=3D'arial'>
<div>No, I do not recall. It was a friend's car &amp; about 10 years ago. I=
 was not involved with the application which was probably done about 10 yea=
rs before the problem manifested itself.</div>

<div>Gary</div>
<br>
<br>

<div style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica;font-size:10pt;color:black">-----=
Original Message-----<br>
From: Bob Spidell &lt;[email-masked]&gt;<br>
To: healeys &lt;[email-masked]&gt;<br>
Sent: Sat, Dec 1, 2018 1:03 pm<br>
Subject: Re: [Healeys] Fuel pumps (AGAIN!)<br>
<br>

<div id=3D"yiv8421395944">
<div>
   =20
<div>Any idea what brand sealant was used?&nbsp; The BH product has very
      specific application instructions involving a cleaner and an
      etching compound before the sealant is applied.&nbsp; Like any 'paint=
,'
      the job is 90% preparation.&nbsp; IIRC, both of my tanks were new or
      near-new when we applied the sealant.<br clear=3D"none">
    </div>

   =20
<div class=3D"yiv8421395944yqt0290782739" id=3D"yiv8421395944yqtfd01215">
<div class=3D"yiv8421395944moz-cite-prefix">On 12/1/2018 7:01 AM,
      <a class=3D"yiv8421395944moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href=3D"mailto:war=
[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"noopener noreferrer" shape=3D"rec=
t" ymailto=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a> wrote:<br c=
lear=3D"none">
    </div>

    <blockquote type=3D"cite">
      </blockquote></div>
</div>

<div class=3D"yiv8421395944yqt0290782739" id=3D"yiv8421395944yqtfd00501">
<div><font color=3D"black" face=3D"arial" size=3D"2">
        </font>
<div>Another sloshing horror story. We were 600 mikes from home
          &amp; in the Rocky Mountains. A friend's 3000 had been running
          fine until one day in the mountains. It began to run fine for
          about 15-20 minutes, then slowly die. A few minutes later it
          would restart &amp; run fine for 15-20 minutes &amp; die
          again. It repeated this pattern over &amp; over. Of course we
          checked adjusted &amp;/or replaced everything we could. The
          problem turned out to be the sloshing sealer that had
          separated in a large sheet from the bottom of the tank. With
          the pump running the sheet would be sucked up to the pickup
          &amp; the pump was being starved for fuel. When the engine
          died &amp; the ignition was shut off the sheet of sealant
          would slowly sink back down to the bottom of the tank &amp;
          the pump could again deliver fuel until the sheet was again
          drawn up to the pick up.&nbsp;</div>

       =20
<div>Gary Hodson</div>

        <br clear=3D"none">
        <br clear=3D"none">
       =20
<div style=3D"font-family:arial, helvetica;font-size:10pt;color:black;">---=
--Original
          Message-----<br clear=3D"none">
          From: Bob Spidell <a class=3D"yiv8421395944moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"=
 href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"noopener nor=
eferrer" shape=3D"rect" ymailto=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">&lt;bspidel=
[email-masked]&gt;</a><br clear=3D"none">
          To: healeys <a class=3D"yiv8421395944moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href=
=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"noopener norefe=
rrer" shape=3D"rect" ymailto=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">&lt;healeys@=
autox.team.net&gt;</a><br clear=3D"none">
          Sent: Fri, Nov 30, 2018 10:47 pm<br clear=3D"none">
          Subject: Re: [Healeys] Fuel pumps (AGAIN!)<br clear=3D"none">
          <br clear=3D"none">
         =20
<div id=3D"yiv8421395944">
           =20
<div>
             =20
<div>Moah DATA!&nbsp; Yeah!</div>

             =20
<div>Definitely makes sense.&nbsp; Both my Healeys have had
                their tanks sloshed with Bill Hirsch sealer (I heard
                Bill Hirsch died recently, BTW).&nbsp; The BJ8's tank was
                done at least 20 years ago, the BN2's more recently.&nbsp; =
I
                inspect them occasionally and have seen no evidence of
                any fragments of the sealer either coming out of the
                feed pipe or in the pumps when I pull them apart.&nbsp; Als=
o,
                when the last pump stopped and I fitted my last spare
                pump it started pumping enthusiastically--and I drove it
                for 10 or so miles--so if the pickup tube in the tank is
                plugged I wouldn't expect that, but I'll have a look
                inside the tanks.</div>

             =20
<div>I've reported it before, but when restoring the BN2
                we bought a used tank.&nbsp; We had an issues with an
                extremely erratic pump: no pumping, heavy thrashing
                (like fibrillation you get when the tank runs dry or you
                have an inlet leak) and occasionally, normal pumping.&nbsp;
                We blew out the lines, tried several needle valves and
                Grose jets but to no avail.&nbsp; Finally, my dad had a hun=
ch
                and cut the pickup tube out of the tank.&nbsp; Sure enough,
                there was a lot of corrosion and a pinhole leak in the
                tube near where it exited the tank.&nbsp; Dad speculated th=
at
                the flux used to solder the tube in the tank was
                corrosive and not cleaned off correctly (well, it was a
                40-year-old tank at the time).&nbsp; Something to put in th=
e
                diagnostics database.</div>

             =20
<div>Bob<br clear=3D"none">
              </div>

             =20
<div class=3D"yiv8421395944yqt2459807578" id=3D"yiv8421395944yqtfd55469">
               =20
<div class=3D"yiv8421395944moz-cite-prefix">On 11/28/2018
                  8:26 PM, Michael Salter wrote:<br clear=3D"none">
                </div>

                <blockquote type=3D"cite"> </blockquote>
              </div>

            </div>

           =20
<div>
             =20
<div class=3D"yiv8421395944yqt2459807578" id=3D"yiv8421395944yqtfd11933">
               =20
<div>This discussion about fuel pumps has revived
                  something from the old grey matter ...
                 =20
<div>To those mentioning repeated failures one problem
                    that will cause premature failure is restrictions in
                    the supply to the pump.</div>

                 =20
<div>The way these pumps work is that the spring in
                    the pump provides the pressure. As the pressure on
                    the output side of the pump decreases the diaphragm
                    moves down to a point where the points close, that
                    energizes the coil to pull the armature up against
                    the spring pressure to the point where the points
                    "flip" and open to stop the current flow through the
                    coil.</div>

                 =20
<div>HOWEVER if there is a restriction in the fuel
                    line feeding the pump the low pressure at the pump
                    inlet can create a partial vacuum which will prevent
                    the armature from rising fully and thus the points
                    from "flipping" .</div>

                 =20
<div>When this happens the coil remains energized and
                    "cooks" in a short time thus ruining the pump.</div>

                 =20
<div>I discovered this while trying to resolve a
                    delivery problem in a car that had had the tank
                    "sloshed". The sloshing compound had coated the
                    gauze filter&nbsp; inside the tank severly restricting
                    the flow.&nbsp;</div>

                 =20
<div>The test was to put an analogue ammeter on the
                    pump electrical supply which showed the prolonged
                    current flow to the pump.</div>

                 =20
<div><br clear=3D"none">
                  </div>

                 =20
<div>M</div>

                </div>

                <br clear=3D"none">
              </div>

            </div>

          </div>

        </div>

      <font color=3D"black" face=3D"arial" size=3D"2">
      </font>
   =20
  </div>
</div>
</div>

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