Subject: Re: [Healeys] Glycol in oil - Update and summary

From: john harper <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2024 18:10:21 +0000

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Roger

I had a 4-cylinder block rebored. It was then pressure tested and a tiny
pinhole was found in the wall of one cylinder. This was fixed by fitting a
liner. If left as it was I assume that coolant would have leaked into the
cylinder and then worked its way into the oil in the sump.

My engine rebuilder carried out a leakage test. I am very grateful that he
did. The fitting of the liner cost a little more but it was money well
spent.

On Sun, 10 Mar 2024 at 17:28, Roger Grace <[email-masked]> wrote:

> *Issue* =E2=80=93 67 BJ8 with about 15k mi on rebuilt engine by PO.
>
> A few months back when setting tappets noted the dreaded creamy gunge on
> the inside of the valve cover indicative of glycol and moisture in the oi=
l.
>
> Have lost several engines (not AH) over the years due to this phenomenon
> and am a little paranoid about glycol in the oil. No evidence of oil in
> coolant. Compression normal.
>
> Took oil sample to the CAT lab and came back positive with 1332 ppm glyco=
l
> and 240 ppm sodium. About 1500 mi on the sample
>
> *Step #1*
>
> So, drained oil completely including the oil cooler (pia) plus filter. Re
> torqued head and added some Bars leak stuff to the rad. Drove 420 mi and
> did retest. Still positive for glycol at 557 ppm and 55 sodium
>
> *Step #2*
>
> Head off; planed, pressure test and freshen by machine shop; new hi end
> gasket; new ARP studs; piston tops cleaned; new gaskets all round. Draine=
d
> oil completely again and also new coolant. BTW use 20% glycol in RO water
> plus No-Rosion. Drove 420 mi again and retest. Some improvement but still
> positive. Above the lab. flag level of 500 ppm (glycol) and 25 ppm (sodiu=
m)
> at 609 ppm glycol and 29 sodium. Just on edge as they only do glycol
> analysis if sodium is above 25 ppm. For interest this translates into
> 3.25ml (less than a teaspoon) glycol or 16.26ml for coolant to trigger th=
e
> flag. Must be bad stuff.
>
> *Step #3*
>
> Coolant pressure test. Drops 3 psi from 13 psi in 14 hours. Done at 65F.
> This seems to indicate a small leak ?
>
> *My thoughts:*
>
>    1.
>
>    small crack in block or head that opens up with heat ? Block more
>    likely.
>    2.
>
>    unlikely to be the known AH block porosity problem with the galleries,
>    as oil at 50 psi and the coolant is at less than 7psi and there is no
>    evidence of oil in coolant. Must be in the gravity oil return path to =
the
>    oil pan someplace.
>    3.
>
>    plan to run with no glycol in coolant; am located on mild west coast
>    and heated garage; change oil more frequently. Hopefully any water wil=
l
>    evaporate off. My understanding is that water is less of a problem tha=
n
>    glycol in the oil ?
>    4.
>
>    consider trying a coolant leak sealant again.
>    5.
>
>    maybe next winter pull oil pan and hunt for the leak from downstairs
>    with coolant under pressure with a view to doing an epoxy repair ? Won=
der
>    if others have heard of this or there is a* =E2=80=9Cknown=E2=80=9D *a=
rea of block
>    weakness ?
>
>
> So, would welcome *any* ideas/thoughts/suggestions
>
> rg
>
>
> <http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium=3Demail&utm_source=3Dlink&=
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<div dir=3D"ltr">Roger<div><br></div><div>I had a 4-cylinder block rebored.=
 It was then pressure tested and a tiny pinhole was found in the wall of on=
e cylinder. This was fixed by fitting a liner. If left as it was I assume t=
hat coolant would have leaked into the cylinder and then worked its way int=
o the oil in the sump.</div><div><br></div><div>My engine rebuilder carried=
 out a leakage test. I am very grateful that he did. The fitting of the lin=
er cost a little more but it was money well spent.</div></div><br><div clas=
s=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Sun, 10 Mar 2024=
 at 17:28, Roger Grace &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">roggrace@t=
elus.net</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D=
"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-le=
ft:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr">
<font face=3D"Arial, sans-serif"><font size=3D"3" style=3D"font-size:13pt">=
<b>Issue</b>
=E2=80=93 67 BJ8 with about 15k mi on rebuilt engine by PO.</font></font>
<p style=3D"margin-bottom:0cm"><font face=3D"Arial, sans-serif"><font size=
=3D"3" style=3D"font-size:13pt">A
few months back when setting tappets noted the dreaded creamy gunge
on the inside of the valve cover indicative of glycol and moisture in
the oil. </font></font>
</p>
<p style=3D"margin-bottom:0cm"><font face=3D"Arial, sans-serif"><font size=
=3D"3" style=3D"font-size:13pt">Have
lost several engines (not AH) over the years due to this phenomenon
and am a little paranoid about glycol in the oil. No evidence of oil
in coolant. Compression normal.</font></font></p>
<p style=3D"margin-bottom:0cm"><font face=3D"Arial, sans-serif"><font size=
=3D"3" style=3D"font-size:13pt">Took
oil sample to the CAT lab and came back positive with 1332 ppm glycol and
240 ppm sodium. About 1500 mi on the sample</font></font></p>
<p style=3D"margin-bottom:0cm"><font face=3D"Arial, sans-serif"><font size=
=3D"3" style=3D"font-size:13pt"><b>Step
#1</b></font></font></p><p style=3D"margin-bottom:0cm"><font face=3D"Arial,=
 sans-serif"><font size=3D"3" style=3D"font-size:13pt">So,
drained oil completely including the oil cooler (pia) plus filter. Re
torqued head and added some Bars leak stuff to the rad. Drove 420 mi
and did retest. Still positive for glycol at 557 ppm and 55 sodium</font></=
font></p>
<p style=3D"margin-bottom:0cm"><font face=3D"Arial, sans-serif"><font size=
=3D"3" style=3D"font-size:13pt"><b>Step
#2</b></font></font></p>
<p style=3D"margin-bottom:0cm"><font face=3D"Arial, sans-serif"><font size=
=3D"3" style=3D"font-size:13pt">Head
off; planed, pressure test and freshen by machine shop; new hi end
gasket; new ARP studs; piston tops cleaned; new gaskets all round.
Drained oil completely again and also new coolant. BTW use 20% glycol
in RO water plus No-Rosion. Drove 420 mi again and retest. Some
improvement but still positive. Above the lab. flag level of 500 ppm
(glycol) and 25 ppm (sodium) at 609 ppm glycol and 29 sodium. Just on
edge as they only do glycol analysis if sodium is above 25 ppm. For
interest this translates into 3.25ml (less than a teaspoon) glycol or
16.26ml for coolant to trigger the flag. Must be bad stuff. </font></font>
</p>
<p style=3D"margin-bottom:0cm"><font face=3D"Arial, sans-serif"><font size=
=3D"3" style=3D"font-size:13pt"><b>Step
#3</b></font></font></p>
<p style=3D"margin-bottom:0cm"><font face=3D"Arial, sans-serif"><font size=
=3D"3" style=3D"font-size:13pt">Coolant
pressure test. Drops 3 psi from 13 psi in 14 hours. Done at 65F.=20
This seems to indicate a small leak ?</font></font></p>
<p style=3D"margin-bottom:0cm"><font face=3D"Arial, sans-serif"><font size=
=3D"3" style=3D"font-size:13pt"><b>My
thoughts:</b></font></font></p>
<ol><li><p style=3D"margin-bottom:0cm"><font face=3D"Arial, sans-serif"><fo=
nt size=3D"3" style=3D"font-size:13pt">small
	crack in block or head that opens up with heat ? Block more likely.</font>=
</font></p>
	</li><li><p style=3D"margin-bottom:0cm"><font face=3D"Arial, sans-serif"><=
font size=3D"3" style=3D"font-size:13pt">unlikely
	to be the known AH block porosity problem with the galleries, as oil
	at 50 psi and the coolant is at less than 7psi and there is no
	evidence of oil in coolant. Must be in the gravity oil return path
	to the oil pan someplace.</font></font></p>
	</li><li><p style=3D"margin-bottom:0cm"> <font face=3D"Arial, sans-serif">=
<font size=3D"3" style=3D"font-size:13pt">plan
	to run with no glycol in coolant; am located on mild west coast and
	heated garage; change oil more frequently. Hopefully any water will
	evaporate off. My understanding is that water is less of a problem
	than glycol in the oil ?</font></font></p>
	</li><li><p style=3D"margin-bottom:0cm"><font face=3D"Arial, sans-serif"><=
font size=3D"3" style=3D"font-size:13pt">consider
	trying a coolant leak sealant again.</font></font></p>
	</li><li><p style=3D"margin-bottom:0cm"><font face=3D"Arial, sans-serif"><=
font size=3D"3" style=3D"font-size:13pt">maybe
	next winter pull oil pan and hunt for the leak from downstairs with
	coolant under pressure with a view to doing an epoxy repair ? Wonder
	if others have heard of this or there is a<i> =E2=80=9Cknown=E2=80=9D </i>=
area
	of block weakness ?</font></font></p>
	<p style=3D"margin-bottom:0cm"></p>
</li></ol>
<p style=3D"margin-bottom:0cm"><font face=3D"Arial, sans-serif"><font size=
=3D"3" style=3D"font-size:13pt">So,
would welcome <b>any</b> ideas/thoughts/suggestions</font></font></p>
<p style=3D"margin-bottom:0cm"><font face=3D"Arial, sans-serif"><font size=
=3D"3" style=3D"font-size:13pt">rg</font></font></p>

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---

From: Michael Salter <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2024 14:13:33 -0400

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Many years ago we had a similar issue with an MGB engine Roger.
We essentially did all the things that you have described with similar
results.
Eventually we took off the rad and heater hoses and installed plugs,
removed the water pump and made a blanking plate for the water pump face
and then with the cooling system filled with water containing a fluorescent
dye pressurized the system to around 100 p.s.i.
The leak was then revealed to be at the bottom of what appeared to be a
factory installed cylinder sleeve.
A very time consuming and frustrating process.

M

On Sun, Mar 10, 2024 at 1:16=E2=80=AFPM Roger Grace <[email-masked]> wr=

l.
l
d
m)
e
the
l
n
der
rea of block
> <#m_-209268421894526644_DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/healeys/[email-masked]
>
>

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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,sa=
ns-serif;font-size:small">Many years ago we had a similar issue with an MGB=
 engine Roger. <br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:=
arial,sans-serif;font-size:small">We essentially did all the things that yo=
u have described with similar results. <br></div><div class=3D"gmail_defaul=
t" style=3D"font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:small">Eventually we too=
k off the rad and heater hoses and installed plugs, removed the water pump =
and made a blanking plate for the water pump face and then with the cooling=
 system filled with water containing a fluorescent dye pressurized the syst=
em to around 100 p.s.i.</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-fam=
ily:arial,sans-serif;font-size:small">The leak was then revealed to be at t=
he bottom of what appeared to be a factory installed cylinder sleeve.</div>=
<div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-siz=
e:small">A very time consuming and frustrating process. <br></div><div clas=
s=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:small">=
<br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,sans-seri=
f;font-size:small">M<br></div></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=
=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Sun, Mar 10, 2024 at 1:16=E2=80=AFPM Roger=
 Grace &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>&gt;=
 wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px =
0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir=
=3D"ltr">
<font face=3D"Arial, sans-serif"><font size=3D"3" style=3D"font-size:13pt">=
<b>Issue</b>
=E2=80=93 67 BJ8 with about 15k mi on rebuilt engine by PO.</font></font>
<p style=3D"margin-bottom:0cm"><font face=3D"Arial, sans-serif"><font size=
=3D"3" style=3D"font-size:13pt">A
few months back when setting tappets noted the dreaded creamy gunge
on the inside of the valve cover indicative of glycol and moisture in
the oil. </font></font>
</p>
<p style=3D"margin-bottom:0cm"><font face=3D"Arial, sans-serif"><font size=
=3D"3" style=3D"font-size:13pt">Have
lost several engines (not AH) over the years due to this phenomenon
and am a little paranoid about glycol in the oil. No evidence of oil
in coolant. Compression normal.</font></font></p>
<p style=3D"margin-bottom:0cm"><font face=3D"Arial, sans-serif"><font size=
=3D"3" style=3D"font-size:13pt">Took
oil sample to the CAT lab and came back positive with 1332 ppm glycol and
240 ppm sodium. About 1500 mi on the sample</font></font></p>
<p style=3D"margin-bottom:0cm"><font face=3D"Arial, sans-serif"><font size=
=3D"3" style=3D"font-size:13pt"><b>Step
#1</b></font></font></p><p style=3D"margin-bottom:0cm"><font face=3D"Arial,=
 sans-serif"><font size=3D"3" style=3D"font-size:13pt">So,
drained oil completely including the oil cooler (pia) plus filter. Re
torqued head and added some Bars leak stuff to the rad. Drove 420 mi
and did retest. Still positive for glycol at 557 ppm and 55 sodium</font></=
font></p>
<p style=3D"margin-bottom:0cm"><font face=3D"Arial, sans-serif"><font size=
=3D"3" style=3D"font-size:13pt"><b>Step
#2</b></font></font></p>
<p style=3D"margin-bottom:0cm"><font face=3D"Arial, sans-serif"><font size=
=3D"3" style=3D"font-size:13pt">Head
off; planed, pressure test and freshen by machine shop; new hi end
gasket; new ARP studs; piston tops cleaned; new gaskets all round.
Drained oil completely again and also new coolant. BTW use 20% glycol
in RO water plus No-Rosion. Drove 420 mi again and retest. Some
improvement but still positive. Above the lab. flag level of 500 ppm
(glycol) and 25 ppm (sodium) at 609 ppm glycol and 29 sodium. Just on
edge as they only do glycol analysis if sodium is above 25 ppm. For
interest this translates into 3.25ml (less than a teaspoon) glycol or
16.26ml for coolant to trigger the flag. Must be bad stuff. </font></font>
</p>
<p style=3D"margin-bottom:0cm"><font face=3D"Arial, sans-serif"><font size=
=3D"3" style=3D"font-size:13pt"><b>Step
#3</b></font></font></p>
<p style=3D"margin-bottom:0cm"><font face=3D"Arial, sans-serif"><font size=
=3D"3" style=3D"font-size:13pt">Coolant
pressure test. Drops 3 psi from 13 psi in 14 hours. Done at 65F.=20
This seems to indicate a small leak ?</font></font></p>
<p style=3D"margin-bottom:0cm"><font face=3D"Arial, sans-serif"><font size=
=3D"3" style=3D"font-size:13pt"><b>My
thoughts:</b></font></font></p>
<ol><li><p style=3D"margin-bottom:0cm"><font face=3D"Arial, sans-serif"><fo=
nt size=3D"3" style=3D"font-size:13pt">small
	crack in block or head that opens up with heat ? Block more likely.</font>=
</font></p>
	</li><li><p style=3D"margin-bottom:0cm"><font face=3D"Arial, sans-serif"><=
font size=3D"3" style=3D"font-size:13pt">unlikely
	to be the known AH block porosity problem with the galleries, as oil
	at 50 psi and the coolant is at less than 7psi and there is no
	evidence of oil in coolant. Must be in the gravity oil return path
	to the oil pan someplace.</font></font></p>
	</li><li><p style=3D"margin-bottom:0cm"> <font face=3D"Arial, sans-serif">=
<font size=3D"3" style=3D"font-size:13pt">plan
	to run with no glycol in coolant; am located on mild west coast and
	heated garage; change oil more frequently. Hopefully any water will
	evaporate off. My understanding is that water is less of a problem
	than glycol in the oil ?</font></font></p>
	</li><li><p style=3D"margin-bottom:0cm"><font face=3D"Arial, sans-serif"><=
font size=3D"3" style=3D"font-size:13pt">consider
	trying a coolant leak sealant again.</font></font></p>
	</li><li><p style=3D"margin-bottom:0cm"><font face=3D"Arial, sans-serif"><=
font size=3D"3" style=3D"font-size:13pt">maybe
	next winter pull oil pan and hunt for the leak from downstairs with
	coolant under pressure with a view to doing an epoxy repair ? Wonder
	if others have heard of this or there is a<i> =E2=80=9Cknown=E2=80=9D </i>=
area
	of block weakness ?</font></font></p>
	<p style=3D"margin-bottom:0cm"></p>
</li></ol>
<p style=3D"margin-bottom:0cm"><font face=3D"Arial, sans-serif"><font size=
=3D"3" style=3D"font-size:13pt">So,
would welcome <b>any</b> ideas/thoughts/suggestions</font></font></p>
<p style=3D"margin-bottom:0cm"><font face=3D"Arial, sans-serif"><font size=
=3D"3" style=3D"font-size:13pt">rg</font></font></p>

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r" target=3D"_blank">http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/healeys</a><br>
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s/[email-masked]" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">http://auto=
x.team.net/mailman/options/healeys/[email-masked]</a><br>
<br>
</blockquote></div>

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