From mg-t-bounces@autox.team.net Tue Nov 1 02:00:50 2016 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6D39E2589CA1 for ; Tue, 1 Nov 2016 02:00:50 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: mg-t@autox.team.net Received: from AUS01-ME1-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-me1aus01on0109.outbound.protection.outlook.com [104.47.116.109]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8D3952588F57 for ; Mon, 31 Oct 2016 19:21:29 -0600 (MDT) d=NeurologicalFoundation.onmicrosoft.com; s=selector1-neurological-org-nz; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version; bh=J37i5C7Bt/PNgRHJ/bv8gxpoMHhrWRYnQvU5V8CEYOA=; b=md0gvLRosLK9hodBQkg+DJ+QagaxtZtKVLLI5L2EBa/QrHAHU7lE8NF2bGhKDsZJiB3ZX9WLvINL5qXfg4hV+7CCKfBYN5oqK2LFYr1lfYOL/fa5wEEBioLBDLpwZYsAd851zPFHsZEtPSvIyatvvGxgLw0n3njZmXQtwoqJM+M= Received: from SY3PR01MB1337.ausprd01.prod.outlook.com (10.171.1.137) by SY3PR01MB1338.ausprd01.prod.outlook.com (10.171.1.138) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_CBC_SHA384_P384) id 15.1.693.12; Tue, 1 Nov 2016 01:21:51 +0000 Received: from SY3PR01MB1337.ausprd01.prod.outlook.com ([10.171.1.137]) by SY3PR01MB1337.ausprd01.prod.outlook.com ([10.171.1.137]) with mapi id 15.01.0693.009; Tue, 1 Nov 2016 01:21:51 +0000 From: Douglas Ormrod To: "'mg-t@autox.team.net'" Thread-Topic: Post winter TD blues Thread-Index: AdIz3hfGcQ7dA6Y6Stiu6sOly29JKA== Date: Tue, 1 Nov 2016 01:21:51 +0000 Accept-Language: en-NZ, en-US Content-Language: en-US authentication-results: spf=none (sender IP is ) smtp.mailfrom=Douglas.Ormrod@Neurological.org.nz; x-originating-ip: [120.136.2.20] x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: 463d22ff-f52a-4a2a-7274-08d401f57583 x-microsoft-exchange-diagnostics: 1; SY3PR01MB1338; 7:fFDZMnd+AEEIC6z4grF72GWNCzkVeYokTW2Ypt3g69BRRNOTTsq0AKuOZZI/uLnOgXeYadbC+5s4MxLaeQ9aoN/g2l3ml6DCYBJLdCFEobfXmcxxuJk7GnOhrOtqPfHQHlc58StJcTJ4uQJmIXxPgMkOOtvWmwKG52nyPSmmJxAdFq4b1rcqaAwKMRjZtum8WHMg4xYUxb7uJi6fI9hxTV5VtUZM7rER7/aglIp4NCYoVJuvq/BtOW11IlTCT25Gryb7PzOi46yVQ9CtyrzXiNrpbFu7xbYO18kPL835TDYqCSdpn+Z4Ij5t69ivhQoIoYLWyCz/ih3vlQW0FPczOEdB6rC9LjVm8l2BVzn7sXE= x-microsoft-antispam: UriScan:;BCL:0;PCL:0;RULEID:;SRVR:SY3PR01MB1338; x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: x-exchange-antispam-report-test: UriScan:; x-exchange-antispam-report-cfa-test: BCL:0; PCL:0; RULEID:(6040176)(2401047)(5005006)(8121501046)(10201501046)(3002001)(6043046)(6042046); SRVR:SY3PR01MB1338; BCL:0; PCL:0; RULEID:; SRVR:SY3PR01MB1338; x-forefront-prvs: 01136D2D90 x-forefront-antispam-report: SFV:NSPM; SFS:(10019020)(6009001)(7916002)(189002)(199003)(8936002)(42882006)(54356999)(122556002)(6916009)(50986999)(107886002)(450100001)(33656002)(77096005)(66066001)(3480700004)(86362001)(2906002)(11100500001)(2900100001)(101416001)(97736004)(5660300001)(74316002)(7696004)(229853001)(74482002)(81156014)(81166006)(92566002)(76576001)(7846002)(7736002)(106356001)(105586002)(110136003)(586003)(87936001)(3846002)(5002640100001)(305945005)(3660700001)(9686002)(3280700002)(6116002)(10400500002)(68736007)(8676002)(189998001)(102836003)(491001); DIR:OUT; SFP:1102; SCL:1; SRVR:SY3PR01MB1338; H:SY3PR01MB1337.ausprd01.prod.outlook.com; FPR:; SPF:None; PTR:InfoNoRecords; MX:1; A:1; LANG:en; received-spf: None (protection.outlook.com: Neurological.org.nz does not designate permitted sender hosts) spamdiagnosticoutput: 1:99 spamdiagnosticmetadata: NSPM Subject: [Mg-t] Post winter TD blues Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: mg-t-bounces@autox.team.net Greetings from New Zealand Long-time no chat, but long-time no problems. My 51 TD has given very little trouble over the last 8 years, but now it is. It has had very little use over the last six months, it was winter and I must be getting soft. Perhaps 4 outing and 50 miles. Summer now here. Started OK at the weekend, but before I could take off it started running very rough - sounds like down to three or two cylinders and backfiring through muffler. Coaxed back into the garage on almost no power. Took out plugs (which were new six months ago) and they were covered in soft black soot. New plugs are NKG B7ES, old ones were NKG B5ES. Cleaned them up, also cleaned all distributer contacts, rotor contact, and took out cleaned and reset the points. Checked cables for tightness. Started easily and took it for a 10 mile run - apart from a little missing at first all seemed fine once it warmed up. Power as normal. Decided to take it work today (sun out), but same scenario, started and sounded OK, but after a few minutes ticking over started running very rough, backfiring and power gone almost gone. Plugs all black and sooty again and a couple of them quite wet. Only part of the ignition system that was not renewed at rebuild was the lucas sports coil - I did have it checked at the time. So any suggestions as to the possible source of the problem? Thanks in anticipation of your collective wisdom. Douglas ______________________________________________ Mg-t@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From mg-t-bounces@autox.team.net Tue Nov 1 08:33:52 2016 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1B3212589D89 for ; Tue, 1 Nov 2016 08:33:52 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: mg-t@autox.team.net Received: from nm23-vm5.bullet.mail.ne1.yahoo.com (nm23-vm5.bullet.mail.ne1.yahoo.com [98.138.91.245]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8FF552589E72 for ; Tue, 1 Nov 2016 07:24:27 -0600 (MDT) t=1478006693; bh=IZXVmWrnmeuyUbLUU2kll+dQWCEAiT72U29xxUz2TaM=; h=Subject:From:In-Reply-To:Date:Cc:References:To:From:Subject; b=SB/yjR9vH1fNKA153/iWE25t2BAGjQ/eTByLkEzXoJ30lZd69Cr+xGPY8OMs66bRdFQ6Uvk5f0f3kkhzcr8ShH8D5iJXKme6vViFzmRRJ+waFdVgVU/inxYVBNFtXuxlbXl8+iarZuw0mV7/ytA/p2T7YlmRkqfpH3m39/wNaox3H2dgFsE2yeTnoLz2rGlZnx5rvVG/m8g0uqdQtiD91o+8w7BV9YeXxlWkX5cjcwfv1w459lt0He9kTKhEUAQP8/4wSl2WBzt5KHTpKGyvPUnSq9+Ye1o3+Rj8kmgqqiaSoJj6UlGAdiGRlqEMT+LAHugX/0xisD2AzFQvc+yKTQ== Received: from [98.138.226.179] by nm23.bullet.mail.ne1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Nov 2016 13:24:53 -0000 Received: from [98.138.226.130] by tm14.bullet.mail.ne1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Nov 2016 13:24:53 -0000 Received: from [127.0.0.1] by smtp217.mail.ne1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Nov 2016 13:24:53 -0000 4dyHJp.inEQ61F6OfiTYpOg6BQD7SJyqYWXud3BcSq5Mn6X7S1yTAN7wYLmc K95BHIawpOHZhZy67oYofEvHt1RZ_y0lxUjLrcP.zEo27Yys3ZN.z95TpMKS sZ8VRN8NKIB2iRK9uyjHEaaPe9C5tngErWlAmM1xOa6YDahTQFWw31qhju_k irkyTLhSZt1BC0aSyrZKxZ97MlIgaYmr5kQU8M_6.ejlGwiqIFhhFs9lmLCk FPvjbGSNG2_elQla4f15loIfk6ey08C9OA5NJfzFgZKiGcLmNuIB_LBcRHhq eD8lJUq52saITcVRVicCFk3joGAFcxjoR4f2NabkptQGfqEGGo23NB_TiGt3 MPl6xALxrahRplc8sxG5f3ZjCHceSEReDP1_FOmwYryLwDL2DwjfviYFPEMC d423idhZvLA73Zc5PZsELwmSUCPksekSbAzn57fLg6T61YbbgDA1q4lnZfzt Up.Ucbf7bXJ0wPmykuesDDRUkjNJrA7TjqAQykU2jigTPKB4Vsgws1w-- From: "Wbeech@flash.net" Date: Tue, 1 Nov 2016 08:24:48 -0500 References: To: Douglas Ormrod Cc: "mg-t@autox.team.net" Subject: Re: [Mg-t] Post winter TD blues Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: mg-t-bounces@autox.team.net Douglas, As they say, most ignition problems are fuel related. That black soot is unburned gas, check your choke levers and see if the jet barrels are retracting all the way back into the carb. They are fairly easy to remove, I use 4-0 steel wool to clean and polish them. You should take care to put the same barrel back into it's respective carb, re-center if needed, enjoy your summer. NOTE: If you are seeing raw fuel leaking then go to your float bowls and replace the needle and seat unit. Cleaning them up will get you by but they will fail again, they are cheaply obtained so save yourself from later troubles now. Not sure why you jumped two heat ranges but check your manual and use the correct sparking plug for your car. All the best, Bill B Sent from my Altair 8800 On Oct 31, 2016, at 8:21 PM, Douglas Ormrod wrote: Greetings from New Zealand Long-time no chat, but long-time no problems. My 51 TD has given very little trouble over the last 8 years, but now it is. It has had very little use over the last six months, it was winter and I must be getting soft. Perhaps 4 outing and 50 miles. Summer now here. Started OK at the weekend, but before I could take off it started running very rough - sounds like down to three or two cylinders and backfiring through muffler. Coaxed back into the garage on almost no power. Took out plugs (which were new six months ago) and they were covered in soft black soot. New plugs are NKG B7ES, old ones were NKG B5ES. Cleaned them up, also cleaned all distributer contacts, rotor contact, and took out cleaned and reset the points. Checked cables for tightness. Started easily and took it for a 10 mile run - apart from a little missing at first all seemed fine once it warmed up. Power as normal. Decided to take it work today (sun out), but same scenario, started and sounded OK, but after a few minutes ticking over started running very rough, backfiring and power gone almost gone. Plugs all black and sooty again and a couple of them quite wet. Only part of the ignition system that was not renewed at rebuild was the lucas sports coil - I did have it checked at the time. So any suggestions as to the possible source of the problem? Thanks in anticipation of your collective wisdom. Douglas ______________________________________________ Mg-t@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive ______________________________________________ Mg-t@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From mg-t-bounces@autox.team.net Tue Nov 1 09:27:46 2016 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 486362589C75 for ; Tue, 1 Nov 2016 09:27:46 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: mg-t@autox.team.net Received: from s417.sureserver.com (s417.sureserver.com [216.35.197.131]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 217A42589E5D for ; Tue, 1 Nov 2016 08:41:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 851 invoked by uid 518); 1 Nov 2016 14:41:46 -0000 From: "=?iso-8859-1?Q?lawrie?=" To: =?iso-8859-1?B?RG91Z2xhcyBPcm1yb2Q=?= , =?iso-8859-1?B?J21nLXRAYXV0b3gudGVhbS5uZXQn?= Date: Tue, 01 Nov 2016 06:41:46 -0800 References: Subject: Re: [Mg-t] =?iso-8859-1?q?Post_winter_TD_blues?= Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Errors-To: mg-t-bounces@autox.team.net Doug, Unless you have a late, big-valve head, your plug of choice should be B6HS,= not either of the ones you have been using. The "E" plugs are for heads wi= th 3/4" plug threads. Secondly, it sounds as though you are leaving the choke on for too long. Af= ter it starts, you should return the choke gradually as soon as possible. I= f it spits back or coughs when you blip the throttle, then it needs a bit m= ore choke, but as soon as it will rev cleanly you don't need any more choke= . It's not a good idea to just leave the engine to sit idling when it first= starts up Lawrie > -------Original Message------- > From: Douglas Ormrod > To: 'mg-t@autox.team.net' > Subject: [Mg-t] Post winter TD blues > Sent: 01 Nov '16 00:12 > = > Greetings from New Zealand > = > Long-time no chat, but long-time no problems. > = > My 51 TD has given very little trouble over the last 8 years, but now it= is. > = > It has had very little use over the last six months, it was winter and I= must be getting soft. Perhaps 4 outing and 50 miles. Summer now here. > = > Started OK at the weekend, but before I could take off it started runnin= g very rough - sounds like down to three or two cylinders and backfiring th= rough muffler. Coaxed back into the garage on almost no power. > = > Took out plugs (which were new six months ago) and they were covered in = soft black soot. New plugs are NKG B7ES, old ones were NKG B5ES. Cleaned th= em up, also cleaned all distributer contacts, rotor contact, and took out c= leaned and reset the points. Checked cables for tightness. Started easily a= nd took it for a 10 mile run - apart from a little missing at first all see= med fine once it warmed up. Power as normal. > = > Decided to take it work today (sun out), but same scenario, started and = sounded OK, but after a few minutes ticking over started running very rough= , backfiring and power gone almost gone. Plugs all black and sooty again an= d a couple of them quite wet. > = > Only part of the ignition system that was not renewed at rebuild was the= lucas sports coil - I did have it checked at the time. > = > So any suggestions as to the possible source of the problem? > = > Thanks in anticipation of your collective wisdom. > = > Douglas > ______________________________________________ > = > Mg-t@autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation=A0=A0$11.47 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mg-t/lawrie@br= itcars.com > = > = ______________________________________________ Mg-t@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive team.net From mg-t-bounces@autox.team.net Tue Nov 1 09:41:34 2016 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 648B22589FAA for ; Tue, 1 Nov 2016 09:41:34 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: mg-t@autox.team.net Received: from filter02.dlls.pa.frontiernet.net (filter02.dlls.pa.frontiernet.net [199.224.80.229]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9DB462589EB4 for ; Tue, 1 Nov 2016 09:08:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by filter02.dlls.pa.frontiernet.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8B70B16AA9D for ; Tue, 1 Nov 2016 15:08:53 +0000 (UTC) Received: from relay01.dlls.pa.frontiernet.net ([199.224.80.244]) by localhost (filter02.dlls.pa.frontiernet.net [199.224.80.229]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id 02vjYGf2_mQE for ; Tue, 1 Nov 2016 15:08:41 +0000 (UTC) Received: from HomePC (unknown [50.107.174.191]) by relay01.dlls.pa.frontiernet.net (Postfix) with ESMTPA id 759FF399E3 for ; Tue, 1 Nov 2016 15:08:40 +0000 (UTC) From: To: "MG-T list" References: Date: Tue, 1 Nov 2016 11:08:28 -0400 Importance: Normal Subject: Re: [Mg-t] Post winter TD blues Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: mg-t-bounces@autox.team.net Douglas -- I don't know whether you have the problems with fuel going bad (turning to gum) from sitting in the tank for months, as we have up here, but it sounds as though your problem is too much fuel rather than not enough spark. In addition to Bill Beech's suggestions: Take the lids off the float bowls and make sure that the floats are actually floating. They can stick on their shafts and not rise as the bowls fill, or spring a leak and allow fuel in, which will make them not rise far enough to shut off the fuel (I've had this problem in the past). If you can get the car to start, take the air cleaner manifold off and work the throttle by hand to see whether the pistons might be sticking in the dashpots at some point, and not falling back down. I remember sending you a pattern for the under-dash panel many years ago! Glad to know your car is on the road. Sarah Carr TD3942EXLU in PA (USA) -----Original Message----- From: Douglas Ormrod Sent: Monday, October 31, 2016 9:21 PM To: 'mg-t@autox.team.net' Subject: [Mg-t] Post winter TD blues Greetings from New Zealand Long-time no chat, but long-time no problems. My 51 TD has given very little trouble over the last 8 years, but now it is. It has had very little use over the last six months, it was winter and I must be getting soft. Perhaps 4 outing and 50 miles. Summer now here. Started OK at the weekend, but before I could take off it started running very rough - sounds like down to three or two cylinders and backfiring through muffler. Coaxed back into the garage on almost no power. Took out plugs (which were new six months ago) and they were covered in soft black soot. New plugs are NKG B7ES, old ones were NKG B5ES. Cleaned them up, also cleaned all distributer contacts, rotor contact, and took out cleaned and reset the points. Checked cables for tightness. Started easily and took it for a 10 mile run - apart from a little missing at first all seemed fine once it warmed up. Power as normal. Decided to take it work today (sun out), but same scenario, started and sounded OK, but after a few minutes ticking over started running very rough, backfiring and power gone almost gone. Plugs all black and sooty again and a couple of them quite wet. Only part of the ignition system that was not renewed at rebuild was the lucas sports coil - I did have it checked at the time. So any suggestions as to the possible source of the problem? Thanks in anticipation of your collective wisdom. Douglas ______________________________________________ Mg-t@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From mg-t-bounces@autox.team.net Tue Nov 1 21:27:19 2016 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8F77725899C7 for ; Tue, 1 Nov 2016 21:27:19 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: mg-t@autox.team.net Received: from AUS01-SY3-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-sy3aus01on0129.outbound.protection.outlook.com [104.47.117.129]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9ADFB2588F6E for ; Tue, 1 Nov 2016 15:53:46 -0600 (MDT) d=NeurologicalFoundation.onmicrosoft.com; s=selector1-neurological-org-nz; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version; bh=uFv45CjU/D6odYCMRahgIjDIMq9fh7hgSpB/QP/kJKo=; b=BbEQ+qx8D4138Hb20VM6RMe5JRyX2Vk+8oVV6WwrySF/gQTgf1PUQN5V2lFcFjSPyVwgIs1DLPVzlaaJr5fIHJ1EBVnzCGOZldTj8JWAXOw9j+X+yT0TINyDjShMwN622XKCK9/apKm/MywKNSbxFyVPISzFy7rXT4QmJHK8Q34= Received: from SY3PR01MB1337.ausprd01.prod.outlook.com (10.171.1.137) by SY3PR01MB1337.ausprd01.prod.outlook.com (10.171.1.137) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_CBC_SHA384_P384) id 15.1.693.12; Tue, 1 Nov 2016 21:54:04 +0000 Received: from SY3PR01MB1337.ausprd01.prod.outlook.com ([10.171.1.137]) by SY3PR01MB1337.ausprd01.prod.outlook.com ([10.171.1.137]) with mapi id 15.01.0693.009; Tue, 1 Nov 2016 21:54:04 +0000 From: Douglas Ormrod To: 'John Seim' , "'mg-t@autox.team.net'" Thread-Topic: [Mg-t] Post winter TD blues Thread-Index: AdIz3hfGcQ7dA6Y6Stiu6sOly29JKAAWAJwAABTYUjA= Date: Tue, 1 Nov 2016 21:54:04 +0000 References: Accept-Language: en-NZ, en-US Content-Language: en-US authentication-results: spf=none (sender IP is ) smtp.mailfrom=Douglas.Ormrod@Neurological.org.nz; x-originating-ip: [120.136.2.20] x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: eb74b5c9-3957-4d84-b117-08d402a198ed x-microsoft-exchange-diagnostics: 1; SY3PR01MB1337; 7:l1NtrcRjkacECcSS9QoJCKoZdkkAKxnMCgaKJNx9dzIkhlt6c8sGpdP2oOPrfPgG102ykHddunrtWm3CpfpUK4mS9cgmW0hH5t5CiJtoNuL3oxrvbfbouou2gLfFB+2ZStlb02XCK2d8gXIIaWnxxu9gOD9d7KM8cYNs2vgVneb/adNGf+s3hEnCQPnjrb4o+Ou6TbGmpnFZijSernDdoI9FwItBh7AWPoIqmy5M8F6yKIA3yWxAeWBedvD+SFNUBTRbnUjCpYiC4tU9Ys4ZBwPc24LWT85BthXHHJA0UpWFMXzbe83lTn+WcpdwmGNFdC7GCqH1V92zqkp1ksjQWT8p25n6ErzYW2nifONOre4= x-microsoft-antispam: UriScan:;BCL:0;PCL:0;RULEID:;SRVR:SY3PR01MB1337; x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: x-exchange-antispam-report-test: UriScan:(190756311086443)(226508931237476); x-exchange-antispam-report-cfa-test: BCL:0; PCL:0; RULEID:(6040176)(2401047)(8121501046)(5005006)(3002001)(10201501046)(6043046)(6042046); SRVR:SY3PR01MB1337; BCL:0; PCL:0; RULEID:; SRVR:SY3PR01MB1337; x-forefront-prvs: 01136D2D90 x-forefront-antispam-report: SFV:NSPM; SFS:(10019020)(6009001)(7916002)(199003)(377454003)(189002)(13464003)(69224002)(24454002)(107886002)(189998001)(3660700001)(76576001)(3280700002)(2950100002)(2906002)(7696004)(5002640100001)(6116002)(33656002)(66066001)(102836003)(87936001)(586003)(5660300001)(11100500001)(3846002)(74482002)(2900100001)(10400500002)(105586002)(8666005)(86362001)(7846002)(8676002)(77096005)(1720100001)(81166006)(81156014)(50986999)(76176999)(54356999)(68736007)(97736004)(5001770100001)(305945005)(8936002)(42882006)(122556002)(92566002)(7736002)(19580395003)(101416001)(9686002)(74316002)(19580405001)(106356001)(15975445007)(7059030)(491001); DIR:OUT; SFP:1102; SCL:1; SRVR:SY3PR01MB1337; H:SY3PR01MB1337.ausprd01.prod.outlook.com; FPR:; SPF:None; PTR:InfoNoRecords; A:1; MX:1; LANG:en; received-spf: None (protection.outlook.com: Neurological.org.nz does not designate permitted sender hosts) spamdiagnosticoutput: 1:99 spamdiagnosticmetadata: NSPM Subject: Re: [Mg-t] Post winter TD blues Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: mg-t-bounces@autox.team.net Thanks for all that good advice folks. Sounds like the carb floats are the place to start, and I'll change the plugs. I did check the carb pistons and they were nice and smooth. Fuel in NZ all comes from the one refinery and is ethanol free, except for one small supplier who I don't buy from. Has not been a problem in the past. Also been contemplating fitting electronic ignition so might do might do that as well. We can now buy them locally. Cheers Douglas -----Original Message----- From: John Seim [mailto:kingseim@earthlink.net] Sent: Wednesday, 2 November 2016 12:50 a.m. To: Douglas Ormrod Subject: Re: [Mg-t] Post winter TD blues Spark plugs are too cold. Go to NGK B6HS. Verify that the cylinder head has 22952 cast into it, top right, front. Should be able to be seen, next to valve cover. You either have a stuck needle to seat, or a sunken float, or both. Remove float bowl. Observe needle drops. Spray carb cleaner at needle and seat area. Remove float, shake, listen for fluid in float. Do same with other float. John Seim Irvine, CA USA On Oct 31, 2016, at 6:21 PM, Douglas Ormrod wrote: > Greetings from New Zealand > > Long-time no chat, but long-time no problems. > > My 51 TD has given very little trouble over the last 8 years, but now it is. > > It has had very little use over the last six months, it was winter and I must be getting soft. Perhaps 4 outing and 50 miles. Summer now here. > > Started OK at the weekend, but before I could take off it started running very rough - sounds like down to three or two cylinders and backfiring through muffler. Coaxed back into the garage on almost no power. > > Took out plugs (which were new six months ago) and they were covered in soft black soot. New plugs are NKG B7ES, old ones were NKG B5ES. Cleaned them up, also cleaned all distributer contacts, rotor contact, and took out cleaned and reset the points. Checked cables for tightness. Started easily and took it for a 10 mile run - apart from a little missing at first all seemed fine once it warmed up. Power as normal. > > Decided to take it work today (sun out), but same scenario, started and sounded OK, but after a few minutes ticking over started running very rough, backfiring and power gone almost gone. Plugs all black and sooty again and a couple of them quite wet. > > Only part of the ignition system that was not renewed at rebuild was the lucas sports coil - I did have it checked at the time. > > So any suggestions as to the possible source of the problem? > > Thanks in anticipation of your collective wisdom. > > Douglas > ______________________________________________ > > Mg-t@autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Suggested annual donation > $11.47 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mg-t/kingseim@earthlink.net > ______________________________________________ Mg-t@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From mg-t-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Nov 3 00:11:16 2016 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id C7137258A749 for ; Thu, 3 Nov 2016 00:11:16 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: mg-t@autox.team.net Received: from AUS01-SY3-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-sy3aus01on0099.outbound.protection.outlook.com [104.47.117.99]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 049E52587D21 for ; Wed, 2 Nov 2016 19:32:30 -0600 (MDT) d=NeurologicalFoundation.onmicrosoft.com; s=selector1-neurological-org-nz; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version; bh=OSmVGFAb1to9rQ6DOUoytjQKwHvbDPMtzVe/3zIltVM=; b=qU//9yJ0sQOJCp8dsgbg6HAKaegZqgr2sABmMX9EReCkrnC9N0bRMt1frIBNlI4+aHndwbXkaXH5c3LOMTcUskpFybacbvjvPSHnMPksZJtcBYGiFG1/hbL78q2m8aF5otWBvdjzs7rHkHY7M96BX+FrNX0hnwuciKJ8cTwUNgs= Received: from SY3PR01MB1337.ausprd01.prod.outlook.com (10.171.1.137) by SY3PR01MB1337.ausprd01.prod.outlook.com (10.171.1.137) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_CBC_SHA384_P384) id 15.1.693.12; Thu, 3 Nov 2016 01:32:46 +0000 Received: from SY3PR01MB1337.ausprd01.prod.outlook.com ([10.171.1.137]) by SY3PR01MB1337.ausprd01.prod.outlook.com ([10.171.1.137]) with mapi id 15.01.0693.009; Thu, 3 Nov 2016 01:32:46 +0000 From: Douglas Ormrod To: 'John Seim' , "'mg-t@autox.team.net'" Thread-Topic: [Mg-t] Post winter TD blues Thread-Index: AdIz3hfGcQ7dA6Y6Stiu6sOly29JKAAWAJwAAE4iOZA= Date: Thu, 3 Nov 2016 01:32:45 +0000 References: Accept-Language: en-NZ, en-US Content-Language: en-US authentication-results: spf=none (sender IP is ) smtp.mailfrom=Douglas.Ormrod@Neurological.org.nz; x-originating-ip: [120.136.2.20] x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: 38c01960-5e17-437e-992e-08d403895073 x-microsoft-exchange-diagnostics: 1; SY3PR01MB1337; 7:8rB1muAl0hJjalpcK0l8chep4KE/2OuH0uNlQvE7g9Pti4fzrlQjjOG5f98TyUTZ6Hc5urnT9OpuCIZ53VXHpX28OdWa/cLLeYvInhrfPWCMTqFJWTmPdqsZsjUu8xC5Trj4KPygtX8QjbDMuBzhB4W8+H6WdiY4+55Zm1ZdE77nQNCGmYc7ieIXvjXqs7G+c0eTBsG1Vnd2yMAF7TVGT4Aop8/YIJjfZuwDC0k7DqSUvjjOEixQ51ZTaXtFU4RjeRXHi7FtuB1ry5tv/Y2hwxC3Pf4rTs2cokjJ0EI5+j34Mfo2AWXuMY5762yQeSUGBxZLe+cV9bVqWzPkvZ3T+zT7QGl4XfrAB785Y2MLnu8= x-microsoft-antispam: UriScan:;BCL:0;PCL:0;RULEID:;SRVR:SY3PR01MB1337; x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: x-exchange-antispam-report-test: UriScan:(190756311086443)(226508931237476); x-exchange-antispam-report-cfa-test: BCL:0; PCL:0; RULEID:(6040176)(2401047)(5005006)(8121501046)(10201501046)(3002001)(6043046)(6042046); SRVR:SY3PR01MB1337; BCL:0; PCL:0; RULEID:; SRVR:SY3PR01MB1337; x-forefront-prvs: 011579F31F x-forefront-antispam-report: SFV:NSPM; SFS:(10019020)(6009001)(7916002)(13464003)(24454002)(199003)(189002)(377454003)(74482002)(2900100001)(10400500002)(105586002)(77096005)(50986999)(81166006)(8666005)(81156014)(8676002)(86362001)(1720100001)(7846002)(76176999)(7736002)(54356999)(42882006)(92566002)(122556002)(106356001)(15975445007)(74316002)(19580395003)(19580405001)(305945005)(97736004)(68736007)(5001770100001)(9686002)(101416001)(7696004)(3280700002)(5002640100001)(2906002)(2950100002)(8936002)(189998001)(107886002)(76576001)(11100500001)(66066001)(102836003)(87936001)(6116002)(3660700001)(5660300001)(586003)(33656002)(3846002)(7059030)(491001); DIR:OUT; SFP:1102; SCL:1; SRVR:SY3PR01MB1337; H:SY3PR01MB1337.ausprd01.prod.outlook.com; FPR:; SPF:None; PTR:InfoNoRecords; A:1; MX:3; LANG:en; received-spf: None (protection.outlook.com: Neurological.org.nz does not designate permitted sender hosts) spamdiagnosticoutput: 1:99 spamdiagnosticmetadata: NSPM Subject: Re: [Mg-t] Post winter TD blues Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: mg-t-bounces@autox.team.net Hi John The mist is clearing (it was 10 years ago when I put it together). Just had a look at my head and it is stamped 68422. But this is a Wosleley 4/44 head - my original which is a 22952 was cracked so I used this one. WosleleyXPAW engines are much more common in NZ than TDs so not uncommon to see this. My block is original to the car. I have another Wosleley head which I have just measured and it is 3/4"reach - so that is why I have the 3/4"plugs! Anyway from what people say the 7ES is too cold so I will go back to the B5ES plugs. Cheers Douglas -----Original Message----- From: John Seim [mailto:kingseim@earthlink.net] Sent: Wednesday, 2 November 2016 12:50 a.m. To: Douglas Ormrod Subject: Re: [Mg-t] Post winter TD blues Spark plugs are too cold. Go to NGK B6HS. Verify that the cylinder head has 22952 cast into it, top right, front. Should be able to be seen, next to valve cover. You either have a stuck needle to seat, or a sunken float, or both. Remove float bowl. Observe needle drops. Spray carb cleaner at needle and seat area. Remove float, shake, listen for fluid in float. Do same with other float. John Seim Irvine, CA USA On Oct 31, 2016, at 6:21 PM, Douglas Ormrod wrote: > Greetings from New Zealand > > Long-time no chat, but long-time no problems. > > My 51 TD has given very little trouble over the last 8 years, but now it is. > > It has had very little use over the last six months, it was winter and I must be getting soft. Perhaps 4 outing and 50 miles. Summer now here. > > Started OK at the weekend, but before I could take off it started running very rough - sounds like down to three or two cylinders and backfiring through muffler. Coaxed back into the garage on almost no power. > > Took out plugs (which were new six months ago) and they were covered in soft black soot. New plugs are NKG B7ES, old ones were NKG B5ES. Cleaned them up, also cleaned all distributer contacts, rotor contact, and took out cleaned and reset the points. Checked cables for tightness. Started easily and took it for a 10 mile run - apart from a little missing at first all seemed fine once it warmed up. Power as normal. > > Decided to take it work today (sun out), but same scenario, started and sounded OK, but after a few minutes ticking over started running very rough, backfiring and power gone almost gone. Plugs all black and sooty again and a couple of them quite wet. > > Only part of the ignition system that was not renewed at rebuild was the lucas sports coil - I did have it checked at the time. > > So any suggestions as to the possible source of the problem? > > Thanks in anticipation of your collective wisdom. > > Douglas > ______________________________________________ > > Mg-t@autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Suggested annual donation > $11.47 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mg-t/kingseim@earthlink.net > ______________________________________________ Mg-t@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From mg-t-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Nov 3 05:59:18 2016 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 18465258AAAF for ; Thu, 3 Nov 2016 05:59:18 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: mg-t@autox.team.net Received: from mtlfep02.bell.net (belmont80srvr.owm.bell.net [184.150.200.80]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1E36625859B0 for ; Thu, 3 Nov 2016 05:56:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: from bell.net mtlfep02 184.150.200.30 by mtlfep02.bell.net with ESMTP id <20161103115706.LWQV32123.mtlfep02.bell.net@mtlspm02.bell.net> for ; Thu, 3 Nov 2016 07:57:06 -0400 Received: from BobGrunauPC ([65.95.82.202]) by mtlspm02.bell.net with ESMTP id <20161103115705.XIWK29689.mtlspm02.bell.net@BobGrunauPC>; Thu, 3 Nov 2016 07:57:05 -0400 From: "Bob Grunau" To: "'Douglas Ormrod'" , "'John Seim'" , References: Date: Thu, 3 Nov 2016 07:57:08 -0400 Thread-Index: AdIz3hfGcQ7dA6Y6Stiu6sOly29JKAAWAJwAAE4iOZAAFpYE4A== Content-Language: en-us recu=0.000, reip=0.000, cl=1, cld=1, fgs=0 Subject: Re: [Mg-t] Post winter TD blues Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: mg-t-bounces@autox.team.net I think your head will be marked 168422?? Yes, 3/4" reach plugs. Also round hole water holes, so use with banana head gasket to suit early TD/TC banana block. Original head to match the block is 22952 , banana water passages and 1/2" reach plugs. Bob Canada -----Original Message----- From: Mg-t [mailto:mg-t-bounces@autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Douglas Ormrod Sent: Wednesday, November 02, 2016 9:33 PM To: 'John Seim'; 'mg-t@autox.team.net' Subject: Re: [Mg-t] Post winter TD blues Hi John The mist is clearing (it was 10 years ago when I put it together). Just had a look at my head and it is stamped 68422. But this is a Wosleley 4/44 head - my original which is a 22952 was cracked so I used this one. WosleleyXPAW engines are much more common in NZ than TDs so not uncommon to see this. My block is original to the car. I have another Wosleley head which I have just measured and it is 3/4"reach - so that is why I have the 3/4"plugs! Anyway from what people say the 7ES is too cold so I will go back to the B5ES plugs. Cheers Douglas -----Original Message----- From: John Seim [mailto:kingseim@earthlink.net] Sent: Wednesday, 2 November 2016 12:50 a.m. To: Douglas Ormrod Subject: Re: [Mg-t] Post winter TD blues Spark plugs are too cold. Go to NGK B6HS. Verify that the cylinder head has 22952 cast into it, top right, front. Should be able to be seen, next to valve cover. You either have a stuck needle to seat, or a sunken float, or both. Remove float bowl. Observe needle drops. Spray carb cleaner at needle and seat area. Remove float, shake, listen for fluid in float. Do same with other float. John Seim Irvine, CA USA On Oct 31, 2016, at 6:21 PM, Douglas Ormrod wrote: > Greetings from New Zealand > > Long-time no chat, but long-time no problems. > > My 51 TD has given very little trouble over the last 8 years, but now it is. > > It has had very little use over the last six months, it was winter and I must be getting soft. Perhaps 4 outing and 50 miles. Summer now here. > > Started OK at the weekend, but before I could take off it started running very rough - sounds like down to three or two cylinders and backfiring through muffler. Coaxed back into the garage on almost no power. > > Took out plugs (which were new six months ago) and they were covered in soft black soot. New plugs are NKG B7ES, old ones were NKG B5ES. Cleaned them up, also cleaned all distributer contacts, rotor contact, and took out cleaned and reset the points. Checked cables for tightness. Started easily and took it for a 10 mile run - apart from a little missing at first all seemed fine once it warmed up. Power as normal. > > Decided to take it work today (sun out), but same scenario, started and sounded OK, but after a few minutes ticking over started running very rough, backfiring and power gone almost gone. Plugs all black and sooty again and a couple of them quite wet. > > Only part of the ignition system that was not renewed at rebuild was the lucas sports coil - I did have it checked at the time. > > So any suggestions as to the possible source of the problem? > > Thanks in anticipation of your collective wisdom. > > Douglas > ______________________________________________ > > Mg-t@autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Suggested annual donation > $11.47 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mg-t/kingseim@earthlink.net > ______________________________________________ Mg-t@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mg-t/grunau.garage@sympatico.ca ______________________________________________ Mg-t@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive