Subject: Re: [Mg-t] Post winter TD blues

From: "[email-masked]" <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 1 Nov 2016 08:24:48 -0500

Douglas,
As they say, most ignition problems are fuel related.  That black soot is unburned gas, check your choke levers and see if the jet barrels are retracting all the way back into the carb.   They are fairly easy to remove, I use 4-0 steel wool to clean and polish them.  You should take care to put the same barrel back into it's respective carb, re-center if needed, enjoy your summer.  

NOTE: If you are seeing raw fuel leaking then go to your float bowls and replace the needle and seat unit.   Cleaning them up will get you by but they will fail again, they are cheaply obtained so save yourself from later troubles now.  

Not sure why you jumped two heat ranges but check your manual and use the correct sparking plug for your car.  

All the best,
Bill B

Sent from my Altair 8800

On Oct 31, 2016, at 8:21 PM, Douglas Ormrod <[email-masked]> wrote:

Greetings from New Zealand

Long-time no chat, but long-time no problems.

My 51 TD has given very little trouble over the last 8 years, but now it is.

It has had very little use over the last six months, it was winter and I must be getting soft. Perhaps 4 outing and 50 miles. Summer now here.

Started OK at the weekend, but before I could take off it started running very rough - sounds like down to three or two cylinders and backfiring through muffler. Coaxed back into the garage on almost no power.

Took out plugs (which were new six months ago) and they were covered in soft black soot. New plugs are NKG B7ES, old ones were NKG B5ES. Cleaned them up, also cleaned all distributer contacts, rotor contact, and took out cleaned and reset the points. Checked cables for tightness. Started easily and took it for a 10 mile run - apart from a little missing at first all seemed fine once it warmed up. Power as normal.

Decided to take it work today (sun out), but same scenario, started and sounded OK, but after a few minutes ticking over started running very rough, backfiring and power gone almost gone. Plugs all black and sooty again and a couple of them quite wet. 

Only part of the ignition system that was not renewed at rebuild was the lucas sports coil - I did have it checked at the time.

So any suggestions as to the possible source of the problem?

Thanks in anticipation of your collective wisdom.

Douglas
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From: "lawrie" <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 01 Nov 2016 06:41:46 -0800

Doug,

Unless you have a late, big-valve head, your plug of choice should be B6HS, not either of the ones you have been using. The "E" plugs are for heads with 3/4" plug threads.

Secondly, it sounds as though you are leaving the choke on for too long. After it starts, you should return the choke gradually as soon as possible. If it spits back or coughs when you blip the throttle, then it needs a bit more choke, but as soon as it will rev cleanly you don't need any more choke. It's not a good idea to just leave the engine to sit idling when it first starts up

Lawrie

>  -------Original Message-------
>  From: Douglas Ormrod <[email-masked]>
>  To: [email-masked]' <[email-masked]>
>  Subject: [Mg-t] Post winter TD blues
>  Sent: 01 Nov '16 00:12
>  
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From: <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 1 Nov 2016 11:08:28 -0400

Douglas --

I don't know whether you have the problems with fuel going bad (turning to 
gum) from sitting in the tank for months, as we have up here, but it sounds 
as though your problem is too much fuel rather than not enough spark.  In 
addition to Bill Beech's suggestions:

Take the lids off the float bowls and make sure that the floats are actually 
floating.  They can stick on their shafts and not rise as the bowls fill, or 
spring a leak and allow fuel in, which will make them not rise far enough to 
shut off the fuel (I've had this problem in the past).

If you can get the car to start, take the air cleaner manifold off and work 
the throttle by hand to see whether the pistons might be sticking in the 
dashpots at some point, and not falling back down.

I remember sending you a pattern for the under-dash panel many years ago! 
Glad to know your car is on the road.

Sarah Carr
TD3942EXLU in PA (USA)

-----Original Message----- 
From: Douglas Ormrod
Sent: Monday, October 31, 2016 9:21 PM
To: [email-masked]'
Subject: [Mg-t] Post winter TD blues

It has had very little use over the last six months, it was winter and I 
must be getting soft. Perhaps 4 outing and 50 miles. Summer now here.

Started OK at the weekend, but before I could take off it started running 
very rough - sounds like down to three or two cylinders and backfiring 
through muffler. Coaxed back into the garage on almost no power.

Took out plugs (which were new six months ago) and they were covered in soft 
black soot. New plugs are NKG B7ES, old ones were NKG B5ES. Cleaned them up, 
also cleaned all distributer contacts, rotor contact, and took out cleaned 
and reset the points. Checked cables for tightness. Started easily and took 
it for a 10 mile run - apart from a little missing at first all seemed fine 
once it warmed up. Power as normal.

Decided to take it work today (sun out), but same scenario, started and 
sounded OK, but after a few minutes ticking over started running very rough, 
backfiring and power gone almost gone. Plugs all black and sooty again and a 
couple of them quite wet.

Only part of the ignition system that was not renewed at rebuild was the 
lucas sports coil - I did have it checked at the time.

Douglas 

[email-masked]

---

From: Douglas Ormrod <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 1 Nov 2016 21:54:04 +0000

Thanks for all that good advice folks. Sounds like the carb floats are the place to start, and I'll change the plugs. I did check the carb pistons and they were nice and smooth.

Fuel in NZ all comes from the one refinery and is ethanol free, except for one small supplier who I don't buy from. Has not been a problem in the past.

Also been contemplating fitting electronic ignition so might do might do that as well. We can now buy them locally.

Cheers

Douglas

-----Original Message-----
From: John Seim [mailto:[email-masked]] 
Sent: Wednesday, 2 November 2016 12:50 a.m.
To: Douglas Ormrod <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [Mg-t] Post winter TD blues

Spark plugs are too cold.
Go to NGK B6HS. Verify that the cylinder head has 22952 cast into it, top right, front. Should be able to be seen, next to valve cover.

You either have a stuck needle to seat, or a sunken float, or both. Remove float bowl. Observe needle drops. Spray carb cleaner at needle and seat area. Remove float, shake, listen for fluid in float. Do same with other float.

John Seim
Irvine, CA
USA

On Oct 31, 2016, at 6:21 PM, Douglas Ormrod wrote:

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From: Douglas Ormrod <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 3 Nov 2016 01:32:45 +0000

Hi John 

The mist is clearing (it was 10 years ago when I put it together).

Just had a look at my head and it is stamped 68422.

But this is a Wosleley 4/44 head - my original which is a 22952 was cracked so I used this one. WosleleyXPAW engines are much more common in NZ than TDs so not uncommon to see this. My block is original to the car.

I have another Wosleley head which I have just measured and it is 3/4"reach - so that is why I have the 3/4"plugs! Anyway from what people say the 7ES is too cold so I will go back to the B5ES plugs.

Cheers

Douglas

-----Original Message-----
From: John Seim [mailto:[email-masked]] 
Sent: Wednesday, 2 November 2016 12:50 a.m.
To: Douglas Ormrod <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [Mg-t] Post winter TD blues

John Seim
Irvine, CA
USA

[email-masked]

---

From: "Bob Grunau" <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 3 Nov 2016 07:57:08 -0400

I think your head will be marked 168422?? Yes, 3/4" reach plugs. Also round
hole water holes, so use with banana head gasket to suit early TD/TC banana
block.

Original head to match the block is 22952 , banana water passages and 1/2"
reach plugs. 
Bob  Canada

-----Original Message-----
From: Mg-t [mailto:[email-masked]] On Behalf Of Douglas Ormrod
Sent: Wednesday, November 02, 2016 9:33 PM
To: 'John Seim'; [email-masked]'
Subject: Re: [Mg-t] Post winter TD blues

Hi John 

But this is a Wosleley 4/44 head - my original which is a 22952 was cracked
so I used this one. WosleleyXPAW engines are much more common in NZ than TDs
so not uncommon to see this. My block is original to the car.

I have another Wosleley head which I have just measured and it is 3/4"reach
- so that is why I have the 3/4"plugs! Anyway from what people say the 7ES
is too cold so I will go back to the B5ES plugs.

Cheers

Douglas

-----Original Message-----
From: John Seim [mailto:[email-masked]] 
Sent: Wednesday, 2 November 2016 12:50 a.m.
To: Douglas Ormrod <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [Mg-t] Post winter TD blues

Spark plugs are too cold.
Go to NGK B6HS. Verify that the cylinder head has 22952 cast into it, top
right, front. Should be able to be seen, next to valve cover.

You either have a stuck needle to seat, or a sunken float, or both. Remove
float bowl. Observe needle drops. Spray carb cleaner at needle and seat
area. Remove float, shake, listen for fluid in float. Do same with other
float.

John Seim
Irvine, CA
USA

> 
> Took out plugs (which were new six months ago) and they were covered in
soft black soot. New plugs are NKG B7ES, old ones were NKG B5ES. Cleaned
them up, also cleaned all distributer contacts, rotor contact, and took out
cleaned and reset the points. Checked cables for tightness. Started easily
and took it for a 10 mile run - apart from a little missing at first all
seemed fine once it warmed up. Power as normal.

[email-masked]
Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mg-t/[email-masked]

[email-masked]