From mgb-v8-bounces+mharc=autox.team.net@autox.team.net Sat Oct 4 12:06:23 2008 From: Barrie Robinson To: mgb-v8@autox.team.net Date: Sat, 04 Oct 2008 14:03:46 -0400 Subject: [Mgb-v8] The Edelbrock saga The Edelbrock manual says the metering rods can be changed in 5 minutes. No time is given for the jets. I decided to change rods and jets to those suggested by D&D and RPi. (see below). So dressed appropriately in purple sweatshirt (my MGB V8 one I considered too risky), I got stuck in to the Edelbrock 1404 carb that sits on top of my Rover 3.5L with mild cam, 10:1 compression pistons (with composite gasket now probably 9.75:1). The first 5 minutes shot past - that just reading the manual! Two and a half hours later I had it done. During this time I learnt that springs fling, screws fall into unknown crevices, and carb rod clips are made for hands the size found on raccoons. (Incidentally, raccoons cannot be trained to help in such matters). So with great trepidation I took my vehicle for a test run. Result ??? Absolutely brilliant. I never touched the tuning screws but it idled sweetly, transcended from idle jets to primary jets with no hesitation and just went......... But sniffed gas once or twice when at high speed , hmmmmm? I have noticed that the fuel line needs to be insulated to prevent fuel being preheated as it goes across the top of the rocker cover. But I am, as they say, a happy camper! Prime metering rod 1441 size 062052 Primary jet 1421 .080 Secondary jet 1426 (stock) .095 must have orange springs Regards Barrie Barrie Robinson (705) 721-9060 http://www.britishv8.org/MG/BarrieRobinson.htm http://www.britcot.com _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html Mgb-v8 mailing list Mgb-v8@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgb-v8 From mgb-v8-bounces+mharc=autox.team.net@autox.team.net Sat Oct 4 12:49:21 2008 From: Barrie Robinson To: mgb-v8@autox.team.net Date: Sat, 04 Oct 2008 14:31:31 -0400 Subject: [Mgb-v8] What oil I was considering using Valvoline VR1 until I found this on the 'net. It is an extract from a posting which makes Pennzoil GT 25W-50 the best. BUT THE POSTING IS DATED JUNE 2002 -so have things changed since then I wonder Here are te results: Keep in mind,1200ppm-1400ppm P/Zn are rec lvls to protect perf flat tappet cams. SCOTT ================================================== ============== * VALVOLINE NSL 20W-50 - (P) 842PPM /(Zn) 973PPM /(DETERGENT)950PPM * VALVOLINE VR1 20W-50 - 684PPM/763PPM/1630PPM * PENNZOIL GT 25W-50 - 1483PPM/1676PPM/1901PPM * GM EOS BLACK BOTTLE- 5059PPM/5850PPM/5,800 * AC DELCO EOS WHITE BOTTLE - 5183PPM/6095PPM/5,900 * STP 4CYL IN RED BOTTLE - 151PPM/171PPM/139PPM (WAS 2115PPM/3932PPM IN 2005) Regards Barrie Barrie Robinson (705) 721-9060 http://www.britishv8.org/MG/BarrieRobinson.htm http://www.britcot.com _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html Mgb-v8 mailing list Mgb-v8@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgb-v8 From mgb-v8-bounces@autox.team.net Tue Oct 14 19:37:54 2008 From: "Rick Huber" To: mgb-v8@autox.team.net Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2008 20:37:42 -0500 Subject: [Mgb-v8] Fuel Pump Woes Hi V8ers, I have a 75 MGB Rover 3.5 V8. I've been running the Borg Warner EP-10 fuel pump for 9 years, mounted on the underside of the panel just in front of the gas tank, just above the rear axle, so fuel pump above the tank. In July, the fuel pump quit. I called several parts stores looking for the BW EP-10, which is not made anymore, but Napa cross referenced it to something they carried. I don't have the box anymore, but the label on the pump is Carter with two numbers, P61296S, and 08C04A. Swapped pumps and the new one lasted about 50 miles. Checked everything in the system before determining that indeed the brand new fuel pump was bad, wouldn't even pump gas out of a jar on the floor of the garage after removing it. Took it back to Napa and got another new one, assuming the pump was bad. Changed inlet hose, connections, blew back into the tank, put on another upstream filter. Second Napa pump lasted about 300 miles, one drive past a weekend trip with the club from Baton Rouge to Natchez for the Natchez/Vidalia car show. Talked to a few people, and someone suggested a different brand, different store, so I went to Auto Zone and got the Airtex E8016S. Got home and took it out of the box, and it looks identical to the Carter. I've put it on the car, but I have a feeling it's only going to last a very short time, so I'm ready to try something different. Is the problem that these new pumps won't suck gas out of the tank when mounted above the tank? Can I get a different pump that I can mount in the same location that will suck gas out of the tank? I can change the mounting location of the Airtex pump, but that sounds like a pain if I could just swap the pump again in the same location. I've heard of the little square pumps - someone said to get the low pressure version for a carburetted car. Anybody with a similar experience? Any solutions? Thanks, Rick Huber Safety Faster with a V8 _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html Mgb-v8 mailing list Mgb-v8@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgb-v8 From mgb-v8-bounces@autox.team.net Tue Oct 14 21:09:14 2008 From: "Wayne Kube" To: "Rick Huber" , Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2008 22:09:06 -0500 Subject: Re: [Mgb-v8] Fuel Pump Woes For what it's worth, when my 'B still had the 4 cylinder engine, I used one of the "little square pumps" that I bought at Pep Boys. It was Purolator brand name - the low pressure type for the carbureted engine. Went 10 years and 70K+ miles without any problems. It was mounted near the original location on the panel just in front of the gas tank. No filter between it and the tank, but a Purolator glass filter just before the carb. Never any problems pulling gas from the tank. I wouldn't think that where you have yours mounted would be a big issue pulling gas either, that short distance from the tank. Now, I have a high pressure EFI style pump, but that's a whole different subject. Wayne Kube Plano, TX '79 MGB V8 3.9L EFI "Hobbes" Logan Lathe Model 1925 n5wmk ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rick Huber" To: Sent: Tuesday, October 14, 2008 8:37 PM Subject: [Mgb-v8] Fuel Pump Woes > Hi V8ers, > I have a 75 MGB Rover 3.5 V8. I've been running the Borg Warner EP-10 > fuel > pump for 9 years, mounted on the underside of the panel just in front of > the > gas tank, just above the rear axle, so fuel pump above the tank. In July, > the fuel pump quit. I called several parts stores looking for the BW > EP-10, > which is not made anymore, but Napa cross referenced it to something they > carried. I don't have the box anymore, but the label on the pump is > Carter > with two numbers, P61296S, and 08C04A. Swapped pumps and the new one > lasted > about 50 miles. Checked everything in the system before determining that > indeed the brand new fuel pump was bad, wouldn't even pump gas out of a > jar > on the floor of the garage after removing it. Took it back to Napa and > got > another new one, assuming the pump was bad. Changed inlet hose, > connections, blew back into the tank, put on another upstream filter. > Second Napa pump lasted about 300 miles, one drive past a weekend trip > with > the club from Baton Rouge to Natchez for the Natchez/Vidalia car show. > Talked to a few people, and someone suggested a different brand, different > store, so I went to Auto Zone and got the Airtex E8016S. Got home and > took > it out of the box, and it looks identical to the Carter. > > I've put it on the car, but I have a feeling it's only going to last a > very > short time, so I'm ready to try something different. Is the problem that > these new pumps won't suck gas out of the tank when mounted above the > tank? > Can I get a different pump that I can mount in the same location that will > suck gas out of the tank? I can change the mounting location of the > Airtex > pump, but that sounds like a pain if I could just swap the pump again in > the > same location. I've heard of the little square pumps - someone said to get > the low pressure version for a carburetted car. Anybody with a similar > experience? Any solutions? > > Thanks, > > Rick Huber > Safety Faster with a V8 > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Mgb-v8 mailing list > > You are subscribed as wkube@augustmail.com > > Mgb-v8@autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgb-v8 _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html Mgb-v8 mailing list Mgb-v8@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgb-v8 From mgb-v8-bounces@autox.team.net Wed Oct 15 09:45:52 2008 From: "Dodd, Kelvin" To: "Rick Huber" , Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2008 08:45:44 -0700 Subject: Re: [Mgb-v8] Fuel Pump Woes Rick: The original SU pump works just fine for a carbureted 3.5L. I've gone the same route of multiple different after market pumps, but have come back to the original. Just a thought. The kicker for me was looking at a UK built V8 powered Group B Rally MG Metro. They had pulled out the Rover derived V6 and installed a V8 in a very professional manner. With all of the pumps available, they chose a good ole' SU one to keep it fed. Kelvin Dodd > -----Original Message----- > From: mgb-v8-bounces@autox.team.net > [mailto:mgb-v8-bounces@autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Rick Huber > Sent: Tuesday, October 14, 2008 6:38 PM > To: mgb-v8@autox.team.net > Subject: [Mgb-v8] Fuel Pump Woes > > Hi V8ers, > I have a 75 MGB Rover 3.5 V8. I've been running the Borg > Warner EP-10 fuel pump for 9 years, mounted on the underside > of the panel just in front of the gas tank, just above the > rear axle, so fuel pump above the tank. In July, the fuel > pump quit. I called several parts stores looking for the BW > EP-10, which is not made anymore, but Napa cross referenced > it to something they carried. I don't have the box anymore, > but the label on the pump is Carter with two numbers, > P61296S, and 08C04A. Swapped pumps and the new one lasted > about 50 miles. Checked everything in the system before > determining that indeed the brand new fuel pump was bad, > wouldn't even pump gas out of a jar on the floor of the > garage after removing it. Took it back to Napa and got > another new one, assuming the pump was bad. Changed inlet > hose, connections, blew back into the tank, put on another > upstream filter. > Second Napa pump lasted about 300 miles, one drive past a > weekend trip with the club from Baton Rouge to Natchez for > the Natchez/Vidalia car show. > Talked to a few people, and someone suggested a different > brand, different store, so I went to Auto Zone and got the > Airtex E8016S. Got home and took it out of the box, and it > looks identical to the Carter. > > I've put it on the car, but I have a feeling it's only going > to last a very short time, so I'm ready to try something > different. Is the problem that these new pumps won't suck > gas out of the tank when mounted above the tank? > Can I get a different pump that I can mount in the same > location that will suck gas out of the tank? I can change > the mounting location of the Airtex pump, but that sounds > like a pain if I could just swap the pump again in the same > location. I've heard of the little square pumps - someone > said to get the low pressure version for a carburetted car. > Anybody with a similar experience? Any solutions? > > Thanks, > > Rick Huber > Safety Faster with a V8 _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html Mgb-v8 mailing list Mgb-v8@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgb-v8 From mgb-v8-bounces@autox.team.net Wed Oct 15 10:43:17 2008 From: edd.rogers@gm.com To: "Dodd, Kelvin" Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2008 12:42:48 -0400 Subject: Re: [Mgb-v8] Fuel Pump Woes Rick, you have had 3 fuel pumps fail in rather short order. Maybe the problem isn't the pump. I would check out every thing related. Is the sock on fuel pick up clogged? Bad ground? clogged fuel line? collapsing draw line from tank? I find it statistically unlikely that all three pumps have failed. maybe the original then a bad replacement but not all 3. food for thought Edd Rogers A Unistaff employee representing General Motors Sales Engineer MD Business Center 31 E Judson St Pontiac MI 48342 Ph: 248.874.3503 "Dodd, Kelvin" Sent by: mgb-v8-bounces@autox.team.net 10/15/2008 11:45 AM To "Rick Huber" , cc Subject Re: [Mgb-v8] Fuel Pump Woes Rick: The original SU pump works just fine for a carbureted 3.5L. I've gone the same route of multiple different after market pumps, but have come back to the original. Just a thought. The kicker for me was looking at a UK built V8 powered Group B Rally MG Metro. They had pulled out the Rover derived V6 and installed a V8 in a very professional manner. With all of the pumps available, they chose a good ole' SU one to keep it fed. Kelvin Dodd > -----Original Message----- > From: mgb-v8-bounces@autox.team.net > [mailto:mgb-v8-bounces@autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Rick Huber > Sent: Tuesday, October 14, 2008 6:38 PM > To: mgb-v8@autox.team.net > Subject: [Mgb-v8] Fuel Pump Woes > > Hi V8ers, > I have a 75 MGB Rover 3.5 V8. I've been running the Borg > Warner EP-10 fuel pump for 9 years, mounted on the underside > of the panel just in front of the gas tank, just above the > rear axle, so fuel pump above the tank. In July, the fuel > pump quit. I called several parts stores looking for the BW > EP-10, which is not made anymore, but Napa cross referenced > it to something they carried. I don't have the box anymore, > but the label on the pump is Carter with two numbers, > P61296S, and 08C04A. Swapped pumps and the new one lasted > about 50 miles. Checked everything in the system before > determining that indeed the brand new fuel pump was bad, > wouldn't even pump gas out of a jar on the floor of the > garage after removing it. Took it back to Napa and got > another new one, assuming the pump was bad. Changed inlet > hose, connections, blew back into the tank, put on another > upstream filter. > Second Napa pump lasted about 300 miles, one drive past a > weekend trip with the club from Baton Rouge to Natchez for > the Natchez/Vidalia car show. > Talked to a few people, and someone suggested a different > brand, different store, so I went to Auto Zone and got the > Airtex E8016S. Got home and took it out of the box, and it > looks identical to the Carter. > > I've put it on the car, but I have a feeling it's only going > to last a very short time, so I'm ready to try something > different. Is the problem that these new pumps won't suck > gas out of the tank when mounted above the tank? > Can I get a different pump that I can mount in the same > location that will suck gas out of the tank? I can change > the mounting location of the Airtex pump, but that sounds > like a pain if I could just swap the pump again in the same > location. I've heard of the little square pumps - someone > said to get the low pressure version for a carburetted car. > Anybody with a similar experience? Any solutions? > > Thanks, > > Rick Huber > Safety Faster with a V8 Mgb-v8 mailing list You are subscribed as edd.rogers@gm.com Mgb-v8@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgb-v8 _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html Mgb-v8 mailing list Mgb-v8@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgb-v8 From mgb-v8-bounces@autox.team.net Wed Oct 15 15:34:34 2008 From: James Nazarian To: Mgs Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2008 17:34:14 -0400 Subject: Re: [Mgb-v8] Fuel Pump Woes I ran the low pressure square pump on my 215 for 40k miles including regular autocrossing. It was still working fine when I sold the car. James Nazarian On Oct 15, 2008, at 11:45 AM, "Dodd, Kelvin" wrote: > Rick: > > The original SU pump works just fine for a carbureted 3.5L. I've gone > the same route of multiple different after market pumps, but have come > back to the original. Just a thought. > > > The kicker for me was looking at a UK built V8 powered Group B Rally > MG > Metro. They had pulled out the Rover derived V6 and installed a V8 > in a > very professional manner. With all of the pumps available, they > chose a > good ole' SU one to keep it fed. > > > > > > Kelvin Dodd > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: mgb-v8-bounces@autox.team.net >> [mailto:mgb-v8-bounces@autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Rick Huber >> Sent: Tuesday, October 14, 2008 6:38 PM >> To: mgb-v8@autox.team.net >> Subject: [Mgb-v8] Fuel Pump Woes >> >> Hi V8ers, >> I have a 75 MGB Rover 3.5 V8. I've been running the Borg >> Warner EP-10 fuel pump for 9 years, mounted on the underside >> of the panel just in front of the gas tank, just above the >> rear axle, so fuel pump above the tank. In July, the fuel >> pump quit. I called several parts stores looking for the BW >> EP-10, which is not made anymore, but Napa cross referenced >> it to something they carried. I don't have the box anymore, >> but the label on the pump is Carter with two numbers, >> P61296S, and 08C04A. Swapped pumps and the new one lasted >> about 50 miles. Checked everything in the system before >> determining that indeed the brand new fuel pump was bad, >> wouldn't even pump gas out of a jar on the floor of the >> garage after removing it. Took it back to Napa and got >> another new one, assuming the pump was bad. Changed inlet >> hose, connections, blew back into the tank, put on another >> upstream filter. >> Second Napa pump lasted about 300 miles, one drive past a >> weekend trip with the club from Baton Rouge to Natchez for >> the Natchez/Vidalia car show. >> Talked to a few people, and someone suggested a different >> brand, different store, so I went to Auto Zone and got the >> Airtex E8016S. Got home and took it out of the box, and it >> looks identical to the Carter. >> >> I've put it on the car, but I have a feeling it's only going >> to last a very short time, so I'm ready to try something >> different. Is the problem that these new pumps won't suck >> gas out of the tank when mounted above the tank? >> Can I get a different pump that I can mount in the same >> location that will suck gas out of the tank? I can change >> the mounting location of the Airtex pump, but that sounds >> like a pain if I could just swap the pump again in the same >> location. I've heard of the little square pumps - someone >> said to get the low pressure version for a carburetted car. >> Anybody with a similar experience? Any solutions? >> >> Thanks, >> >> Rick Huber >> Safety Faster with a V8 > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Mgb-v8 mailing list > > You are subscribed as james.nazarian@gmail.com > > Mgb-v8@autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgb-v8 _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html Mgb-v8 mailing list Mgb-v8@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgb-v8 From mgb-v8-bounces@autox.team.net Wed Oct 15 18:59:16 2008 From: "Allen L. Wulf" To: "Wayne Kube" , "Rick Huber" Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2008 18:59:02 -0600 Subject: Re: [Mgb-v8] Fuel Pump Woes Rick, I have sucessfully used that Airtex E16S along with a Mr. Gasket Pressure regulator set at 2.5PSI on my MGA for at least 15 years. I also have a '67 MGB-V8 (215 Buick) that I used the same fuel pump on when it was fueled by a Carter 400CFM 4BBL. In July I put Hotwire Fuel Injection from a '89 Land Rover on the B and changed the fuel pump to a Airtex 8228. It works ok, except for being noisy. Wayne, I am interested in what fuel pump you are using with your EFI. I know that some people use a fuel pump from a XJ6, but I decided to use the Airtex 8228 because it has a 5/16 inlet and a 5/16 outlet. Thanks, Al Wulf Wheat Ridge, CO ----- Original Message ----- From: "Wayne Kube" To: "Rick Huber" ; Sent: Tuesday, October 14, 2008 9:09 PM Subject: Re: [Mgb-v8] Fuel Pump Woes > For what it's worth, when my 'B still had the 4 cylinder engine, I used > one of the "little square pumps" that I bought at Pep Boys. It was > Purolator brand name - the low pressure type for the carbureted engine. > Went 10 years and 70K+ miles without any problems. It was mounted near > the original location on the panel just in front of the gas tank. No > filter between it and the tank, but a Purolator glass filter just before > the carb. Never any problems pulling gas from the tank. I wouldn't think > that where you have yours mounted would be a big issue pulling gas either, > that short distance from the tank. > > Now, I have a high pressure EFI style pump, but that's a whole different > subject. > > Wayne Kube > Plano, TX > > '79 MGB V8 3.9L EFI "Hobbes" > Logan Lathe Model 1925 > n5wmk > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Rick Huber" > To: > Sent: Tuesday, October 14, 2008 8:37 PM > Subject: [Mgb-v8] Fuel Pump Woes > > >> Hi V8ers, >> I have a 75 MGB Rover 3.5 V8. I've been running the Borg Warner EP-10 >> fuel >> pump for 9 years, mounted on the underside of the panel just in front of >> the >> gas tank, just above the rear axle, so fuel pump above the tank. In >> July, >> the fuel pump quit. I called several parts stores looking for the BW >> EP-10, >> which is not made anymore, but Napa cross referenced it to something they >> carried. I don't have the box anymore, but the label on the pump is >> Carter >> with two numbers, P61296S, and 08C04A. Swapped pumps and the new one >> lasted >> about 50 miles. Checked everything in the system before determining that >> indeed the brand new fuel pump was bad, wouldn't even pump gas out of a >> jar >> on the floor of the garage after removing it. Took it back to Napa and >> got >> another new one, assuming the pump was bad. Changed inlet hose, >> connections, blew back into the tank, put on another upstream filter. >> Second Napa pump lasted about 300 miles, one drive past a weekend trip >> with >> the club from Baton Rouge to Natchez for the Natchez/Vidalia car show. >> Talked to a few people, and someone suggested a different brand, >> different >> store, so I went to Auto Zone and got the Airtex E8016S. Got home and >> took >> it out of the box, and it looks identical to the Carter. >> >> I've put it on the car, but I have a feeling it's only going to last a >> very >> short time, so I'm ready to try something different. Is the problem that >> these new pumps won't suck gas out of the tank when mounted above the >> tank? >> Can I get a different pump that I can mount in the same location that >> will >> suck gas out of the tank? I can change the mounting location of the >> Airtex >> pump, but that sounds like a pain if I could just swap the pump again in >> the >> same location. I've heard of the little square pumps - someone said to >> get >> the low pressure version for a carburetted car. Anybody with a similar >> experience? Any solutions? >> >> Thanks, >> >> Rick Huber >> Safety Faster with a V8 >> _______________________________________________ _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html Mgb-v8 mailing list Mgb-v8@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgb-v8 From mgb-v8-bounces@autox.team.net Sat Oct 18 04:07:26 2008 From: "Paul Hunt" To: "Rick Huber" , Date: Sat, 18 Oct 2008 10:56:39 +0100 Subject: Re: [Mgb-v8] Fuel Pump Woes The standard SU pump delivers from 1 to 2 Imperial Pints per minute and is more than adequate for engines bigger than yours. Can't speak for after-market pumps but the SU on rubber bumper cars *is* mounted above the top of the tank (conveniently allows you to work on the fittings without fuel siphoning out, unlike the chrome bumper pump) and indeed the SU test rig mounts it *3 to 4 feet* above the fuel level to get that flow rate. As far as failures go, maybe the EP-10 failing after 9 years is sooner than one would expect, but I don't know the pump. Two identical replacement pumps failing in short-order is perfectly possible if they were from the same source - could be a bad batch or simply the wrong pump form the application. If the first wouldn't even suck fuel from a jar on the garage floor as you say then I think it is reasonable to eliminate the tank or anything else on the car, *unless* it has sucked gunge from the tank *into* the pump. PaulH. ----- Original Message ----- I have a 75 MGB Rover 3.5 V8. I've been running the Borg Warner EP-10 fuel pump for 9 years, mounted on the underside of the panel just in front of the gas tank, just above the rear axle, so fuel pump above the tank. In July, the fuel pump quit... _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html Mgb-v8 mailing list Mgb-v8@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgb-v8 From mgb-v8-bounces@autox.team.net Sat Oct 18 07:46:27 2008 From: "Carl Floyd" To: "Dodd, Kelvin" , Date: Sat, 18 Oct 2008 09:46:05 -0400 Subject: Re: [Mgb-v8] Fuel Pump Woes Kelvin, Interesting. I tried sticking with my stock '79 B SU pump. I found when driven hard in the turns )like 5K+ RPM in 3rd gear around a curve) it would lay down like I had run out of fuel. It was as though the SU couldn't fill the float bowl fast enough. I tried raising the the floats with no change. Switched to a noisy Carter, & 5 or 6 track days & same number of autocrosses later, problem seems gone for good. The 4 banger MGB road racers swear by the Holley fuel pump that flows a gazillion GPH. Carl Floyd ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dodd, Kelvin" To: "Rick Huber" ; Sent: Wednesday, October 15, 2008 11:45 AM Subject: Re: [Mgb-v8] Fuel Pump Woes > Rick: > > The original SU pump works just fine for a carbureted 3.5L. I've gone > the same route of multiple different after market pumps, but have come > back to the original. Just a thought. > > > The kicker for me was looking at a UK built V8 powered Group B Rally MG > Metro. They had pulled out the Rover derived V6 and installed a V8 in a > very professional manner. With all of the pumps available, they chose a > good ole' SU one to keep it fed. > > > > > > Kelvin Dodd > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: mgb-v8-bounces@autox.team.net >> [mailto:mgb-v8-bounces@autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Rick Huber >> Sent: Tuesday, October 14, 2008 6:38 PM >> To: mgb-v8@autox.team.net >> Subject: [Mgb-v8] Fuel Pump Woes >> >> Hi V8ers, >> I have a 75 MGB Rover 3.5 V8. I've been running the Borg >> Warner EP-10 fuel pump for 9 years, mounted on the underside >> of the panel just in front of the gas tank, just above the >> rear axle, so fuel pump above the tank. In July, the fuel >> pump quit. I called several parts stores looking for the BW >> EP-10, which is not made anymore, but Napa cross referenced >> it to something they carried. I don't have the box anymore, >> but the label on the pump is Carter with two numbers, >> P61296S, and 08C04A. Swapped pumps and the new one lasted >> about 50 miles. Checked everything in the system before >> determining that indeed the brand new fuel pump was bad, >> wouldn't even pump gas out of a jar on the floor of the >> garage after removing it. Took it back to Napa and got >> another new one, assuming the pump was bad. Changed inlet >> hose, connections, blew back into the tank, put on another >> upstream filter. >> Second Napa pump lasted about 300 miles, one drive past a >> weekend trip with the club from Baton Rouge to Natchez for >> the Natchez/Vidalia car show. >> Talked to a few people, and someone suggested a different >> brand, different store, so I went to Auto Zone and got the >> Airtex E8016S. Got home and took it out of the box, and it >> looks identical to the Carter. >> >> I've put it on the car, but I have a feeling it's only going >> to last a very short time, so I'm ready to try something >> different. Is the problem that these new pumps won't suck >> gas out of the tank when mounted above the tank? >> Can I get a different pump that I can mount in the same >> location that will suck gas out of the tank? I can change >> the mounting location of the Airtex pump, but that sounds >> like a pain if I could just swap the pump again in the same >> location. I've heard of the little square pumps - someone >> said to get the low pressure version for a carburetted car. >> Anybody with a similar experience? Any solutions? >> >> Thanks, >> >> Rick Huber >> Safety Faster with a V8 > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Mgb-v8 mailing list > > You are subscribed as cmfloyd@chartertn.net > > Mgb-v8@autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgb-v8 _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html Mgb-v8 mailing list Mgb-v8@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgb-v8 From mgb-v8-bounces@autox.team.net Sat Oct 18 09:22:11 2008 From: Barrie Robinson To: mgb-v8@autox.team.net Date: Sat, 18 Oct 2008 11:17:51 -0400 Subject: [Mgb-v8] Carb to dizzy connection I have an Edelbrock 1404 (manual choke) on my 3.5L Rover in the MGB GT There are three spigots when facing from the front The Roger Williams book says vacuum connection to the distributor (D&D Delco) is the right hand small outlet facing from front and middle one blanked off, and one the left blanked off. My "shop" says the distributor should be connected to the one on the right - and there it sits. The Edelbrock Owner's Manual is no help. So which is correct ???? Regards Barrie Barrie Robinson (705) 721-9060 http://www.britishv8.org/MG/BarrieRobinson.htm http://www.britcot.com _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html Mgb-v8 mailing list Mgb-v8@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgb-v8 From mgb-v8-bounces@autox.team.net Sat Oct 18 14:59:26 2008 From: Bill Zenkus To: Barrie Robinson Date: Sat, 18 Oct 2008 13:59:21 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: [Mgb-v8] Carb to dizzy connection Hi Barrie The passenger side vacuum port is ""timed" meaning vacuum increases with engine speed. The drivers side port is the "full" vacuum port meaning the vacuum decreases as engine speed increases. Determine if the dizzy requires increasing or decreasing vacuum to advance the timing then connect to the appropriate port. If not sure how to check the dizzy, try using a hand vacuum pump connected to the dizzy with a timing light at idle. Watch to see if timing advances (increases degrees of timing before TDC) when applying more vacuum with the pump - if yes, go to the timed port. Sent from Bill's iPhone! On Oct 18, 2008, at 11:17 AM, Barrie Robinson wrote: I have an Edelbrock 1404 (manual choke) on my 3.5L Rover in the MGB GT There are three spigots when facing from the front The Roger Williams book says vacuum connection to the distributor (D&D Delco) is the right hand small outlet facing from front and middle one blanked off, and one the left blanked off. My "shop" says the distributor should be connected to the one on the right - and there it sits. The Edelbrock Owner's Manual is no help. So which is correct ???? Regards Barrie Barrie Robinson (705) 721-9060 http://www.britishv8.org/MG/BarrieRobinson.htm http://www.britcot.com Mgb-v8 mailing list You are subscribed as mgb_zenkus@yahoo.com Mgb-v8@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgb-v8 _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html Mgb-v8 mailing list Mgb-v8@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgb-v8 From mgb-v8-bounces@autox.team.net Sun Oct 19 06:26:29 2008 From: "Paul Hunt" To: "Bill Zenkus" , "Barrie Robinson" Date: Sun, 19 Oct 2008 13:18:13 +0100 Subject: Re: [Mgb-v8] Carb to dizzy connection Are you sure you have this right? Normally the two sources are carb and inlet manifold. Inlet manifold vacuum is near maximum at idle, rises slightly as the throttle starts to open simply because the engine gets more efficient, then gradually tails away as the throttle is opened further. Carb gives zero vacuum at idle, rapidly rising to a maximum as the throttle starts to open, then is the same as inlet manifold i.e. gradually reducing to zero as the throttle is opened further. How much vacuum you get *does* depend on engine speed to some extent, but as engine speed is controlled by throttle opening (except on the overrun) it's the throttle that controls vacuum, and the reducing vacuum with increasing throttle is designed to offset the greater tendency of an engine to pink under wider throttle openings by reducing the amount of advance on wider throttle openings. It's *centrifugal* advance that increases as engine speed increases, and that takes advantage of the fact that as engine revs increase there is a *reduced* tendency to pink, all other things being equal, so it can take more advance to improve efficiency of combustion and hence performance. Which vacuum source is used simply depends on the emissions requirements - inlet manifold vacuum gives lower idle emissions as the engine runs more efficiently with more advance. However it has a downside that it makes the engine slightly more difficult to start as some advance is applied even during cranking. Carb vacuum is usually preferred, if manifold vacuum were better for other than emissions reasons it would have always been used. PaulH. ----- Original Message ----- The passenger side vacuum port is ""timed" meaning vacuum increases with engine speed. The drivers side port is the "full" vacuum port meaning the vacuum decreases as engine speed increases. _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html Mgb-v8 mailing list Mgb-v8@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgb-v8 From mgb-v8-bounces@autox.team.net Sun Oct 19 12:24:07 2008 From: "Rick Huber" To: mgb-v8@autox.team.net Date: Sun, 19 Oct 2008 13:23:49 -0500 Subject: [Mgb-v8] Fuel Pump Woes Wow, thanks everybody. A treasure trove of information on fuel pump applications for my V8 B. Nobody seems to think that the mounting location is the source of the problem, so I'll continue with the Airtex E16S, but carry a spare for a couple of months. To those who had other ideas, suggestions, I have done everything else I could think of - blew back into the gas tank, looked for trash and found none, replaced the suction hose and filter before the fuel pump, get great flow to the carb with a new pump installed, so don't think the delivery line is restricted. Sounds like from many of you that the original SU will work fine, I'll consider that if I have any more trouble. Cheers, Rick Huber 75 MGB V8 _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html Mgb-v8 mailing list Mgb-v8@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgb-v8 From mgb-v8-bounces@autox.team.net Sun Oct 19 12:51:53 2008 From: Bill Zenkus To: Paul Hunt Date: Sun, 19 Oct 2008 11:51:48 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: [Mgb-v8] Carb to dizzy connection Right Passenger side port is timed (carb) drivers side port on carb is manifold Sent from Bill's iPhone! On Oct 19, 2008, at 8:18 AM, "Paul Hunt" wrote: Are you sure you have this right? Normally the two sources are carb and inlet manifold. Inlet manifold vacuum is near maximum at idle, rises slightly as the throttle starts to open simply because the engine gets more efficient, then gradually tails away as the throttle is opened further. Carb gives zero vacuum at idle, rapidly rising to a maximum as the throttle starts to open, then is the same as inlet manifold i.e. gradually reducing to zero as the throttle is opened further. How much vacuum you get *does* depend on engine speed to some extent, but as engine speed is controlled by throttle opening (except on the overrun) it's the throttle that controls vacuum, and the reducing vacuum with increasing throttle is designed to offset the greater tendency of an engine to pink under wider throttle openings by reducing the amount of advance on wider throttle openings. It's *centrifugal* advance that increases as engine speed increases, and that takes advantage of the fact that as engine revs increase there is a *reduced* tendency to pink, all other things being equal, so it can take more advance to improve efficiency of combustion and hence performance. Which vacuum source is used simply depends on the emissions requirements - inlet manifold vacuum gives lower idle emissions as the engine runs more efficiently with more advance. However it has a downside that it makes the engine slightly more difficult to start as some advance is applied even during cranking. Carb vacuum is usually preferred, if manifold vacuum were better for other than emissions reasons it would have always been used. PaulH. ----- Original Message ----- The passenger side vacuum port is ""timed" meaning vacuum increases with engine speed. The drivers side port is the "full" vacuum port meaning the vacuum decreases as engine speed increases. _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html Mgb-v8 mailing list Mgb-v8@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgb-v8 From mgb-v8-bounces@autox.team.net Sun Oct 19 15:16:05 2008 From: "Carl Floyd" To: "Paul Hunt" , "Bill Zenkus" Date: Sun, 19 Oct 2008 17:15:14 -0400 Subject: Re: [Mgb-v8] Carb to dizzy connection Some of the British cars may have always used "carb vacuum", but here in the States, American Iron used full manifold vacuum for many, many years. The ported vacuum advance was a smog bandaid that was applied in the 70s. These days the onboard computers handle all that. Most distributors can be set up either way if you know what you are setting out to do. Some engines may prefer one over the other. Usually these is not much difference either way once set up properly. They will both the job on the street by aiding fuel economy. I use full manifold vacuum advance on my '79 B because it has a '63 Buick 215 in it. Carl ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul Hunt" To: "Bill Zenkus" ; "Barrie Robinson" Cc: Sent: Sunday, October 19, 2008 8:18 AM Subject: Re: [Mgb-v8] Carb to dizzy connection > Are you sure you have this right? Normally the two sources are carb and > inlet > manifold. Inlet manifold vacuum is near maximum at idle, rises slightly > as > the throttle starts to open simply because the engine gets more efficient, > then gradually tails away as the throttle is opened further. Carb gives > zero > vacuum at idle, rapidly rising to a maximum as the throttle starts to > open, > then is the same as inlet manifold i.e. gradually reducing to zero as the > throttle is opened further. How much vacuum you get *does* depend on > engine > speed to some extent, but as engine speed is controlled by throttle > opening > (except on the overrun) it's the throttle that controls vacuum, and the > reducing vacuum with increasing throttle is designed to offset the greater > tendency of an engine to pink under wider throttle openings by reducing > the > amount of advance on wider throttle openings. > > It's *centrifugal* advance that increases as engine speed increases, and > that > takes advantage of the fact that as engine revs increase there is a > *reduced* > tendency to pink, all other things being equal, so it can take more > advance to > improve efficiency of combustion and hence performance. > > Which vacuum source is used simply depends on the emissions requirements - > inlet manifold vacuum gives lower idle emissions as the engine runs more > efficiently with more advance. However it has a downside that it makes > the > engine slightly more difficult to start as some advance is applied even > during > cranking. Carb vacuum is usually preferred, if manifold vacuum were > better > for other than emissions reasons it would have always been used. > > PaulH. > ----- Original Message ----- > > > The passenger side vacuum port is ""timed" meaning vacuum increases with > engine speed. > > The drivers side port is the "full" vacuum port meaning the vacuum > decreases > as engine speed increases. > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Mgb-v8 mailing list > > You are subscribed as cmfloyd@chartertn.net > > Mgb-v8@autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgb-v8 _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html Mgb-v8 mailing list Mgb-v8@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgb-v8 From mgb-v8-bounces@autox.team.net Sun Oct 19 21:29:49 2008 From: James Bown To: Carl Floyd , Paul Hunt Date: Sun, 19 Oct 2008 21:29:43 -0600 Subject: Re: [Mgb-v8] Carb to dizzy connection 1961-1963 Buick and Olds 215 V8 engines, in both 2 and 4 barrel versions, always used 'carb vacuum'. > From: cmfloyd@chartertn.net> To: paul.hunt1@blueyonder.co.uk; mgb_zenkus@yahoo.com; barrie@look.ca> Date: Sun, 19 Oct 2008 17:15:14 -0400> CC: mgb-v8@autox.team.net> Subject: Re: [Mgb-v8] Carb to dizzy connection> > Some of the British cars may have always used "carb vacuum", but here in the > States, American Iron used full manifold vacuum for many, many years. The > ported vacuum advance was a smog bandaid that was applied in the 70s. These > days the onboard computers handle all that.> > Most distributors can be set up either way if you know what you are setting > out to do. Some engines may prefer one over the other. Usually these is not > much difference either way once set up properly. They will both the job on > the street by aiding fuel economy.> > I use full manifold vacuum advance on my '79 B because it has a '63 Buick > 215 in it.> > Carl> > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Paul Hunt" > To: "Bill Zenkus" ; "Barrie Robinson" > Cc: > Sent: Sunday, October 19, 2008 8:18 AM> Subject: Re: [Mgb-v8] Carb to dizzy connection> > > > Are you sure you have this right? Normally the two sources are carb and > > inlet> > manifold. Inlet manifold vacuum is near maximum at idle, rises slightly > > as> > the throttle starts to open simply because the engine gets more efficient,> > then gradually tails away as the throttle is opened further. Carb gives > > zero> > vacuum at idle, rapidly rising to a maximum as the throttle starts to > > open,> > then is the same as inlet manifold i.e. gradually reducing to zero as the> > throttle is opened further. How much vacuum you get *does* depend on > > engine> > speed to some extent, but as engine speed is controlled by throttle > > opening> > (except on the overrun) it's the throttle that controls vacuum, and the> > reducing vacuum with increasing throttle is designed to offset the greater> > tendency of an engine to pink under wider throttle openings by reducing > > the> > amount of advance on wider throttle openings.> >> > It's *centrifugal* advance that increases as engine speed increases, and > > that> > takes advantage of the fact that as engine revs increase there is a > > *reduced*> > tendency to pink, all other things being equal, so it can take more > > advance to> > improve efficiency of combustion and hence performance.> >> > Which vacuum source is used simply depends on the emissions requirements -> > inlet manifold vacuum gives lower idle emissions as the engine runs more> > efficiently with more advance. However it has a downside that it makes > > the> > engine slightly more difficult to start as some advance is applied even > > during> > cranking. Carb vacuum is usually preferred, if manifold vacuum were > > better> > for other than emissions reasons it would have always been used.> >> > PaulH.> > ----- Original Message -----> >> >> > The passenger side vacuum port is ""timed" meaning vacuum increases with> > engine speed.> >> > The drivers side port is the "full" vacuum port meaning the vacuum > > decreases> > as engine speed increases.> > _______________________________________________> > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html> >> > Mgb-v8 mailing list> >> > You are subscribed as cmfloyd@chartertn.net> >> > Mgb-v8@autox.team.net> > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgb-v8 > _______________________________________________> Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html> > Mgb-v8 mailing list> > You are subscribed as jaguarsandrail@hotmail.com> > Mgb-v8@autox.team.net> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgb-v8 _________________________________________________________________ When your life is on the gotake your life with you. http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/115298558/direct/01/ _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html Mgb-v8 mailing list Mgb-v8@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgb-v8 From mgb-v8-bounces@autox.team.net Mon Oct 20 04:45:44 2008 From: "Paul Hunt" To: Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2008 11:20:44 +0100 Subject: Re: [Mgb-v8] Carb to dizzy connection I quite agree, they only really differ at idle, in all usual driving conditions they are the same (see my tests at http://www.mgb-stuff.org.uk/wn_ignitionframe.htm and click on 'Vacuum_Advance - Carb_vs_Manifold'). Many people get hung-up on their being different distributors for manifold source and carb source. It's quite true that North American engines and distributors changed when the source changed, but they changed just about every year as the factory were continually chasing the moving target of emissions levels! UK cars didn't change until much later on, but kept the same engine and distributor when they did, in fact for the whole of rubber bumper production. PaulH. ----- Original Message ----- Most distributors can be set up either way if you know what you are setting out to do. Some engines may prefer one over the other. Usually these is not much difference either way once set up properly. They will both the job on the street by aiding fuel economy. _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html Mgb-v8 mailing list Mgb-v8@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgb-v8 From mgb-v8-bounces@autox.team.net Mon Oct 20 11:01:56 2008 From: "Dodd, Kelvin" To: "Carl Floyd" , Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2008 10:01:49 -0700 Subject: Re: [Mgb-v8] Fuel Pump Woes Carl: It is possible your SU pump was on the way out as a tired SU can have problems delivering fuel under heavy engine load. There may also be some issues with the rubber lines used on the late, in-trunk installation that aggravate starvation problems. The earlier cars with braided 3/8" hoses and rigid lines tend to have fewer problems with flow. Usually, they either work or quit. MGB road racers are no different than any other speed fiend, with a penchant to replace anything that even seems could be a problem with over kill devices. On the race track a noisy fuel pump isn't an issue, but for the street it can be a real pain. Especially if the pump whines in time to the turnsignals when stopped at an intersection. BTDT. The factory used SU pumps in all of their endurance racers and rally cars, albeit ones with twin coils. I'm all in favor of modifications, but I gotta stick up for the good ole SU pump. They really do a good job and have gotten a bad rep. for no good reason other than the fact that most people only experience them when the pumps are pretty tired out. I've done my part to replace SU pumps with all manner of after market types and have finally come back to using the original pumps. Even in my '65 MGB vintage race car. I really got the point made to me when the two different aftermarket fuel pumps installed by a PO in my Jaguar 3.8S both took a dump. Oh, that also gives an idea of demand. The 4.2 Liter E-Type uses just one standard SU pump to supply the very thirsty straight six. One thing to add is that the oxygenated fuels now being served up are playing havok with a lot of after market pumps that previously gave good service. Also many of the US manufactured pumps that had good reputations are being out sourced. We have had a rash of problems with after market pumps used for our supercharged applications and the Dupree type intermittant pump from a major manufacturer has been pulled from the market as not being compatible with modern fuels. With the change in fuels, anything using a rubber seal needs to be carefully evaluated. Kelvin Dodd > -----Original Message----- > From: Carl Floyd [mailto:cmfloyd@chartertn.net] > Sent: Saturday, October 18, 2008 6:46 AM > To: Dodd, Kelvin; mgb-v8@autox.team.net > Subject: Re: [Mgb-v8] Fuel Pump Woes > > Kelvin, > > Interesting. > > I tried sticking with my stock '79 B SU pump. I found when > driven hard in the turns )like 5K+ RPM in 3rd gear around a > curve) it would lay down like I had run out of fuel. It was > as though the SU couldn't fill the float bowl fast enough. I > tried raising the the floats with no change. Switched to a > noisy Carter, & 5 or 6 track days & same number of > autocrosses later, problem seems gone for good. > > The 4 banger MGB road racers swear by the Holley fuel pump > that flows a gazillion GPH. > > Carl Floyd _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html Mgb-v8 mailing list Mgb-v8@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgb-v8 From mgb-v8-bounces@autox.team.net Mon Oct 20 11:30:06 2008 From: "Howard" To: Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2008 12:29:42 -0500 Subject: [Mgb-v8] Fuel Pump problems Hi all, I found that I like to look at bottom line and that is "fuel pressure at the carburetor/s at full throttle - full load" If the pressure is there then the volume is there too. I often just put a "T" in the fuel line at the carb/s or injection system and run a long hose out form under the hood and place the pressure gauge under a wiper arm and drive the car to the conditions where a problem is noted or just accelerate up a hill and the reading is the end of the story. Fuel supply is or is not a problem by the gauge reading. Howard http://mg-tri-jag.net _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html Mgb-v8 mailing list Mgb-v8@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgb-v8 From mgb-v8-bounces@autox.team.net Tue Oct 21 02:06:34 2008 From: "Paul Hunt" To: "Howard" , Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2008 08:42:04 +0100 Subject: Re: [Mgb-v8] Fuel Pump problems Would be the float(s) hanging up under the cornering forces and not allowing enough in, in that case. Or some debris in a drilling moving back and fore. PaulH. ----- Original Message ----- ... I often just put a "T" in the fuel line at the carb/s or injection system and run a long hose out form under the hood and place the pressure gauge under a wiper arm and drive the car to the conditions where a problem is noted or just accelerate up a hill and the reading is the end of the story. Fuel supply is or is not a problem by the gauge reading. _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html Mgb-v8 mailing list Mgb-v8@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgb-v8 From mgb-v8-bounces@autox.team.net Tue Oct 21 14:42:53 2008 From: Barrie Robinson To: mgb-v8@autox.team.net Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2008 16:42:35 -0400 Subject: [Mgb-v8] Rover engine number I have papers dated 23 Jan 1996 from my Rover 3.5L engine rebuild done for the Ministry of Defence UK and then sold on to me. The engine number given in 95601473A which is nowhere near the numbers shown on http://www.capriracing.co.uk/RoverV8EngineNumbers.htm There is another number E (?) 14/950008 Can anyone shed light on this please/ Thank you in advance for your responses Regards Barrie Barrie Robinson (705) 721-9060 http://www.britishv8.org/MG/BarrieRobinson.htm http://www.britcot.com _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html Mgb-v8 mailing list Mgb-v8@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgb-v8 From mgb-v8-bounces@autox.team.net Wed Oct 22 02:10:26 2008 From: "Paul Hunt" To: , "Barrie Robinson" Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2008 08:57:05 +0100 Subject: Re: [Mgb-v8] Rover engine number FWIW that list doesn't seem to include the factory MGB V8 engine numbers, maybe not the RV8 either. Mine (original engine) is 4860-2328 which is obviously close to some of the numbers given, but can't be included in the closest series beginning 4850-0001A as they are 10.5:1 and mine is 8.26:1. The description tallies better with the early Rangie engines but the number ranges of those are further away. Is that the number on paperwork or actually stamped on the engine? If the latter could it be interpreted as something else i.e. a bad stamping? If the rebuild was done by the factory then maybe they changed the number to something completely different like they did for the Gold Seal factory rebuilds. PaulH. ----- Original Message ----- From: Barrie Robinson To: mgb-v8@autox.team.net Sent: Tuesday, October 21, 2008 9:42 PM Subject: [Mgb-v8] Rover engine number I have papers dated 23 Jan 1996 from my Rover 3.5L engine rebuild done for the Ministry of Defence UK and then sold on to me. The engine number given in 95601473A which is nowhere near the numbers shown on http://www.capriracing.co.uk/RoverV8EngineNumbers.htm There is another number E (?) 14/950008 Can anyone shed light on this please/ Thank you in advance for your responses Regards Barrie Barrie Robinson (705) 721-9060 http://www.britishv8.org/MG/BarrieRobinson.htm http://www.britcot.com _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html Mgb-v8 mailing list You are subscribed as paul.hunt1@blueyonder.co.uk Mgb-v8@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgb-v8 _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html Mgb-v8 mailing list Mgb-v8@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgb-v8 From mgb-v8-bounces@autox.team.net Wed Oct 22 07:54:28 2008 From: "Carl Floyd" To: "Dodd, Kelvin" , Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2008 09:53:42 -0400 Subject: Re: [Mgb-v8] Fuel Pump Woes Kelvin, I doubt it, but maybe. '79 B w/45K miles, hoses were fine. It got better when I changed the pump. I know of 2-3 other V8'ers with same story. I generally agree with you on the SU. My Dad is still running the original fuel pump on his '63 B (He's the original owner). Changed the points once about 25 years ago! Carl ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dodd, Kelvin" To: "Carl Floyd" ; Sent: Monday, October 20, 2008 1:01 PM Subject: RE: [Mgb-v8] Fuel Pump Woes Carl: It is possible your SU pump was on the way out as a tired SU can have problems delivering fuel under heavy engine load. There may also be some issues with the rubber lines used on the late, in-trunk installation that aggravate starvation problems. The earlier cars with braided 3/8" hoses and rigid lines tend to have fewer problems with flow. Usually, they either work or quit. MGB road racers are no different than any other speed fiend, with a penchant to replace anything that even seems could be a problem with over kill devices. On the race track a noisy fuel pump isn't an issue, but for the street it can be a real pain. Especially if the pump whines in time to the turnsignals when stopped at an intersection. BTDT. The factory used SU pumps in all of their endurance racers and rally cars, albeit ones with twin coils. I'm all in favor of modifications, but I gotta stick up for the good ole SU pump. They really do a good job and have gotten a bad rep. for no good reason other than the fact that most people only experience them when the pumps are pretty tired out. I've done my part to replace SU pumps with all manner of after market types and have finally come back to using the original pumps. Even in my '65 MGB vintage race car. I really got the point made to me when the two different aftermarket fuel pumps installed by a PO in my Jaguar 3.8S both took a dump. Oh, that also gives an idea of demand. The 4.2 Liter E-Type uses just one standard SU pump to supply the very thirsty straight six. One thing to add is that the oxygenated fuels now being served up are playing havok with a lot of after market pumps that previously gave good service. Also many of the US manufactured pumps that had good reputations are being out sourced. We have had a rash of problems with after market pumps used for our supercharged applications and the Dupree type intermittant pump from a major manufacturer has been pulled from the market as not being compatible with modern fuels. With the change in fuels, anything using a rubber seal needs to be carefully evaluated. Kelvin Dodd > -----Original Message----- > From: Carl Floyd [mailto:cmfloyd@chartertn.net] > Sent: Saturday, October 18, 2008 6:46 AM > To: Dodd, Kelvin; mgb-v8@autox.team.net > Subject: Re: [Mgb-v8] Fuel Pump Woes > > Kelvin, > > Interesting. > > I tried sticking with my stock '79 B SU pump. I found when > driven hard in the turns )like 5K+ RPM in 3rd gear around a > curve) it would lay down like I had run out of fuel. It was > as though the SU couldn't fill the float bowl fast enough. I > tried raising the the floats with no change. Switched to a > noisy Carter, & 5 or 6 track days & same number of > autocrosses later, problem seems gone for good. > > The 4 banger MGB road racers swear by the Holley fuel pump > that flows a gazillion GPH. > > Carl Floyd _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html Mgb-v8 mailing list Mgb-v8@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgb-v8 From mgb-v8-bounces@autox.team.net Wed Oct 22 09:52:58 2008 From: Barrie Robinson To: "Paul Hunt" , Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2008 11:44:26 -0400 Subject: Re: [Mgb-v8] Rover engine number Paul, The engine rebuild was done by a sort of hush hush Ministry of Defense repair outfit called ABRO Ashford so god knows what they did. I must look for the number on the engine - where is it stamped? The engines probably were originally in military vehicles so the numbering may be very different. So really all I can say is that it was rebuilt in 1996 ! At 03:57 AM 10/22/2008, Paul Hunt wrote: >FWIW that list doesn't seem to include the factory MGB V8 engine >numbers, maybe not the RV8 either. Mine (original engine) is >4860-2328 which is obviously close to some of the numbers given, but >can't be included in the closest series beginning 4850-0001A as they >are 10.5:1 and mine is 8.26:1. The description tallies better with >the early Rangie engines but the number ranges of those are further away. > >Is that the number on paperwork or actually stamped on the >engine? If the latter could it be interpreted as something else >i.e. a bad stamping? If the rebuild was done by the factory then >maybe they changed the number to something completely different like >they did for the Gold Seal factory rebuilds. > >PaulH. >----- Original Message ----- >From: Barrie Robinson >To: mgb-v8@autox.team.net >Sent: Tuesday, October 21, 2008 9:42 PM >Subject: [Mgb-v8] Rover engine number > >I have papers dated 23 Jan 1996 from my Rover 3.5L engine rebuild >done for the Ministry of Defence UK and then sold on to me. >The engine number given in 95601473A which is nowhere near the >numbers shown on >http://www.capriracing.co.uk/RoverV8EngineNumbers.htm >There is another number E (?) 14/950008 >Can anyone shed light on this please/ > >Thank you in advance for your responses > >Regards >Barrie > >Barrie Robinson >(705) 721-9060 >http://www.britishv8.org/MG/BarrieRobinson.htm >http://www.britcot.com >_______________________________________________ >Support >Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > >Mgb-v8 mailing list > >You are subscribed as >paul.hunt1@blueyonder.co.uk > >Mgb-v8@autox.team.net >http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgb-v8 Regards Barrie Barrie Robinson (705) 721-9060 http://www.britishv8.org/MG/BarrieRobinson.htm http://www.britcot.com _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html Mgb-v8 mailing list Mgb-v8@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgb-v8 From mgb-v8-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Oct 23 07:40:20 2008 From: "Paul Hunt" To: , "Barrie Robinson" Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2008 08:44:17 +0100 Subject: Re: [Mgb-v8] Rover engine number Some more info from Roger Parker who has a great deal of experience with these engines: "I can't be certain but fully expect the number is one specific for the MOD engines as a completely separate stand alone series. "4860 is the correct engine prefix code just for the MGB GTV8, whilst RV8 used 48A. although some of the early RV8 dev cars had a 47A engine code along with an SPL VIN prefix." Normally, and unlike the 4-cylinder engines with a removable tag, the V8 engine number is stamped into the edge of the flange the bell-housing bolts up to, near the top left (facing forwards) corner. Whilst this means it cannot be 'lost' like the tag can, I suppose it could be ground back and restamped for good or evil reasons. Paul. ----- Original Message ----- The engine rebuild was done by a sort of hush hush Ministry of Defense repair outfit called ABRO Ashford so god knows what they did. I must look for the number on the engine - where is it stamped? The engines probably were originally in military vehicles so the numbering may be very different. So really all I can say is that it was rebuilt in 1996 ! _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html Mgb-v8 mailing list Mgb-v8@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgb-v8 From mgb-v8-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Oct 24 10:27:23 2008 From: Barrie Robinson To: mgb-v8@autox.team.net Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2008 12:12:51 -0400 Subject: [Mgb-v8] Water pumps I have been working with a manufacturer to make the shortened P591 water pump. P591 seems to be the part number used for the Buick engines. I was doing a price check but found that two of the previous suppliers no longer had stock and had no intention of getting more. I approached Fenco a larger rebuilder of items - one being the water pump. They said they have stopped rebuilding them. So I am wondering if these units will be very difficult to source in the future. I have two prototypes from the manufacturer and wonder if anyone would volunteer to see if they fit the Rover block. They are being cagey about the price so I cannot even hazard a guess at cost. Anybody got any input? Thank you in advance for your responses Regards Barrie Barrie Robinson (705) 721-9060 http://www.britishv8.org/MG/BarrieRobinson.htm http://www.britcot.com _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html Mgb-v8 mailing list Mgb-v8@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgb-v8