From mgb-v8-bounces@autox.team.net Mon Mar 2 14:23:48 2009 From: Barrie Robinson To: mgb-v8@autox.team.net,mgs@autox.team.net Date: Mon, 02 Mar 2009 16:23:14 -0500 Subject: [Mgb-v8] D&D radiator I replaced my D&D four core brass radiator with my self-designed Howes Racing one. Is anyone interested in acquiring the D&D rad? Incidentally, I now fear that my engine runs too cool !!! Regards Barrie Barrie Robinson (705) 721-9060 http://www.britishv8.org/MG/BarrieRobinson.htm http://www.britcot.com _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html Mgb-v8 mailing list Mgb-v8@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgb-v8 From mgb-v8-bounces@autox.team.net Tue Mar 3 04:52:04 2009 From: "Paul Hunt" To: , , "Barrie Robinson" Date: Tue, 3 Mar 2009 11:28:49 -0000 Subject: Re: [Mgb-v8] D&D radiator Shouldn't with the correct thermostat. PaulH. ----- Original Message ----- Incidentally, I now fear that my engine runs too cool !!! _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html Mgb-v8 mailing list Mgb-v8@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgb-v8 From mgb-v8-bounces@autox.team.net Tue Mar 3 20:50:44 2009 From: James Bown To: Barrie Robinson , , Date: Tue, 3 Mar 2009 20:49:57 -0700 Subject: Re: [Mgb-v8] D&D radiator Do you have electric fans or an engine driven fan? The nice thing about electric fans is that they can be controlled to come on at a certain coolant temp. I have even seen some that were variable speed. Regards, Jim Bown > Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2009 16:23:14 -0500 > To: mgb-v8@autox.team.net; mgs@autox.team.net > From: barrie@look.ca > Subject: [Mgb-v8] D&D radiator > > I replaced my D&D four core brass radiator with my self-designed > Howes Racing one. Is anyone interested in acquiring the D&D rad? > > Incidentally, I now fear that my engine runs too cool !!! > > Regards > Barrie > > Barrie Robinson > (705) 721-9060 > http://www.britishv8.org/MG/BarrieRobinson.htm > http://www.britcot.com _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live: Life without walls. http://windowslive.com/explore?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_allup_1a_explore_032009 _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html Mgb-v8 mailing list Mgb-v8@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgb-v8 From mgb-v8-bounces@autox.team.net Mon Mar 23 08:44:14 2009 From: "Paul Hunt" To: "V8 list" , , Date: Mon, 23 Mar 2009 14:28:49 -0000 Subject: [Mgb-v8] Pistons What's the thrust face of a piston and why? I've seen a description of the what and I think I've sussed out the why, but I'd like the opinions of others. PaulH. _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html Mgb-v8 mailing list Mgb-v8@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgb-v8 From mgb-v8-bounces@autox.team.net Mon Mar 23 08:44:53 2009 From: "Paul Hunt" To: "V8 list" Date: Mon, 23 Mar 2009 14:31:18 -0000 Subject: [Mgb-v8] Con-rod orientation Just checked the big-end and mains shells on my factory V8. All just within the upper limit for clearance, and standard sizes. Big end journals are perfect, shells showing little wear, mains a little more marked for some reason. All pretty good for 200k plus. However the manual states the rib on the big-end caps should be on the same side as the pip on the con-rods. Fair enough, but I found all mine at the back, which seemed unlikely. Then I noticed the shells were offset in the caps, and this is to clear the radii at each side of the journal, the two shells should be offset towards each other, which mine weren't. Elsewhere in the manual it states that the con-rod pips must face forwards on the right bank and backwards on the left bank, so whoever rebuilt the engine after the rebore some 100k ago made a major error. Looking up inside the bores I can see the little-end is positioned mid-way along the wrist-pin on the left bank, but is biased to one side on the right (see attached). Since the shells are still just within tolerance and it is done 100k like it (75k in my ownership) it doesn't seem to be causing any major problems. I've reassembled it as it, at least I know now what size shells to order when I do decide to rebuild the bottom end. _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html Mgb-v8 mailing list Mgb-v8@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgb-v8 From mgb-v8-bounces@autox.team.net Mon Mar 23 09:02:23 2009 From: "Howard" To: Date: Mon, 23 Mar 2009 09:58:11 -0600 (Central Standard Time) Subject: [Mgb-v8] Thrust face of a piston The thrust face of a piston is the face of a piston that is forced against the cylinder wall on the power stroke. This is important to ID on some piston designs like offset pins and the old split skirt pistons. Usually when it is important the piston manufacture will put an arrow or some other marking on the crown of the piston. Howard [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type image/jpeg which had a name of faint_grain.jpg] [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type image/gif which had a name of imstp_animation_butterflies_en_020908.gif] _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html Mgb-v8 mailing list Mgb-v8@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgb-v8 From mgb-v8-bounces@autox.team.net Mon Mar 23 09:44:22 2009 From: "Paul Hunt" To: "Howard" , Date: Mon, 23 Mar 2009 15:29:31 -0000 Subject: Re: [Mgb-v8] Thrust face of a piston Yes, but the question is which face is forced against the wall on the power stroke (and please don't say 'the thrust face') i.e. how do you determine it for a specific engine. ----- Original Message ----- The thrust face of a piston is the face of a piston that is forced against the cylinder wall on the power stroke... _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html Mgb-v8 mailing list Mgb-v8@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgb-v8 From mgb-v8-bounces@autox.team.net Mon Mar 23 10:48:39 2009 From: "Smit, Theo" To: "Paul Hunt" , "Howard" Date: Mon, 23 Mar 2009 10:49:36 -0600 Subject: Re: [Mgb-v8] Thrust face of a piston It's the side that is opposite to where the crank throw is on the power stroke. Visualize what the angled connecting rod is doing, and it's easy to determine which side should be taking the load. If you disassemble the engine it should be pretty obvious also... One side of the piston (and bore) will wear significantly more than the other. Cheers, Theo _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html Mgb-v8 mailing list Mgb-v8@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgb-v8 From mgb-v8-bounces@autox.team.net Tue Mar 24 02:50:25 2009 From: "Paul Hunt" To: Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2009 08:47:08 -0000 Subject: Re: [Mgb-v8] Thrust face of a piston Thanks for the replies on this. The answer that wins the prize for clarity and simplicity seems to have been in a personal reply and not to the list, so I'll repeat it below: "A simple way to remember which is the thrust face is that the rod points toward the thrust face on the way down the cylinder. Applies to any engine, inline or V" and I'll add "clockwise or anti-clockwise". PaulH. ----- Original Message ----- It's the side that is opposite to where the crank throw is on the power stroke. Visualize what the angled connecting rod is doing, and it's easy to determine which side should be taking the load. _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html Mgb-v8 mailing list Mgb-v8@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgb-v8 From mgb-v8-bounces@autox.team.net Tue Mar 24 03:13:43 2009 From: "Paul Hunt" To: "V8 list" Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2009 09:12:37 -0000 Subject: [Mgb-v8] Fan relay Anyone with a factory V8 with an original 3-wire cooling fan relay? I'd be very interested to hear the reference number on the can. The side of the can should have LUCAS, Made in England below that, 6RA below that, then on the bottom line should be a five-digit number followed by a letter, 12V, and a four-digit date code. It's this bottom line I'm interested in. Thanks, PaulH. _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html Mgb-v8 mailing list Mgb-v8@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgb-v8 From mgb-v8-bounces@autox.team.net Tue Mar 24 12:28:29 2009 From: Barrie Robinson To: mgb-v8@autox.team.net Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2009 14:28:42 -0400 Subject: [Mgb-v8] SD1 Gearbox I have an SD1 5-speed gearbox in my MGB GT - and I have filled it with oil in the past (ATF). Now I want to drain and fill up again but I cannot find the "in" place. It is up there somewhere but I cannot grope it!! Can someone tell me which side, what size and'or where it is please. I know I used a long tube and funnel to fill it before !!! The other thing is I cannot get my glove box lid to work. I cannot get inside to see what is wrong and I have tried innumerable combinations of the washers I have. Thank you in advance for your replies _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html Mgb-v8 mailing list Mgb-v8@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgb-v8 From mgb-v8-bounces@autox.team.net Tue Mar 24 13:29:00 2009 From: "Smit, Theo" To: "Barrie Robinson" , Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2009 13:30:00 -0600 Subject: Re: [Mgb-v8] SD1 Gearbox According to this: http://www.rimmerbros.co.uk/sd1/images/ld33a.gif The filler plug is labeled UKC26 and it would be on the left (driver's) side of the rear extension housing. Theo > -----Original Message----- > From: mgb-v8-bounces@autox.team.net > [mailto:mgb-v8-bounces@autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Barrie Robinson > Sent: March 24, 2009 12:29 PM > To: mgb-v8@autox.team.net > Subject: [Mgb-v8] SD1 Gearbox > > I have an SD1 5-speed gearbox in my MGB GT - and I have > filled it with oil in the past (ATF). Now I want to drain > and fill up again but I cannot find the "in" place. It is up > there somewhere but I > cannot grope it!! Can someone tell me which side, what size and'or > where it is please. I know I used a long tube and funnel to > fill it before !!! > > The other thing is I cannot get my glove box lid to work. I > cannot get inside to see what is wrong and I have tried > innumerable combinations of the washers I have. > > Thank you in advance for your replies > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Mgb-v8 mailing list > > You are subscribed as theo.smit@dynastream.com > > Mgb-v8@autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgb-v8 _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html Mgb-v8 mailing list Mgb-v8@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgb-v8 From mgb-v8-bounces@autox.team.net Wed Mar 25 03:05:59 2009 From: "Paul Hunt" To: Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2009 08:44:27 -0000 Subject: Re: [Mgb-v8] [!! SPAM] Re: Ah, the details........ Erm, ask yourself how many engines are installed with the crankshaft above the combustion chamber! ----- Original Message ----- This only leave the question of which way is down? From which end of the cylinder is one looking? "A simple way to remember which is the thrust face is that the rod points toward the thrust face on the way down the cylinder. Applies to any engine, inline or V" and I'll add "clockwise or anti-clockwise". _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html Mgb-v8 mailing list Mgb-v8@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgb-v8 From mgb-v8-bounces@autox.team.net Wed Mar 25 03:33:27 2009 From: "Paul Hunt" To: , "Barrie Robinson" Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2009 09:07:15 -0000 Subject: Re: [Mgb-v8] SD1 Gearbox Amazingly (?) Haynes doesn't show this. It shows what appears to be the drain plug low down towards the rear on the right-hand side of the main ribbed casing but nit the filler/level plug. Adding to Theo's reply photos on this site http://www.roversd1.nl/sd1web/index.html almost certainly show the filler, go to Gearboxes and Part 5. PaulH. ----- Original Message ----- I have an SD1 5-speed gearbox in my MGB GT - and I have filled it with oil in the past (ATF). Now I want to drain and fill up again but I cannot find the "in" place. It is up there somewhere but I cannot grope it!! Can someone tell me which side, what size and'or where it is please. _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html Mgb-v8 mailing list Mgb-v8@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgb-v8 From mgb-v8-bounces@autox.team.net Wed Mar 25 10:32:43 2009 From: GrayTesla@aol.com To: mgb-v8@autox.team.net, mgs@autox.team.net, MG-MGB@yahoogroups.com Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2009 12:33:10 EDT Subject: Re: [Mgb-v8] Different approaches in various parts of the world?? <> Paul, About ALL of them that I've built have at a point had the crankshaft above the combustion chamber. You may do things differently where you are (meaning no disrespect) but when assembling an engine on an engine stand here it is the normal practice to rotate the block so that the crankshaft is on the top. It makes it so much easier when fitting the bearings (mains and rods) into place. That approach also facilitates dropping the crank into place rather than lifting it into place. How do they assemble engines where you live? Darius ************** Feeling the pinch at the grocery store? Make dinner for $10 or less. (http://food.aol.com/frugal-feasts?ncid=emlcntusfood00000001) _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html Mgb-v8 mailing list Mgb-v8@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgb-v8 From mgb-v8-bounces@autox.team.net Wed Mar 25 15:00:17 2009 From: Barrie Robinson To: mgb-v8@autox.team.net Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2009 17:01:08 -0400 Subject: [Mgb-v8] SD1 Gearbox I have an SD1 5-speed gearbox in my MGB GT - and I have filled it with oil in the past (ATF). Now I want to drain and fill up again but I cannot find the "in" place. It is up there somewhere but I cannot grope it!! Can someone tell me which side, what size and'or where it is please. I know I used a long tube and funnel to fill it before !!! The other thing is I cannot get my glove box lid to work. I cannot get inside to see what is wrong and I have tried innumerable combinations of the washers I have. Thank you in advance for your replies Regards Barrie Robinson 705-721-9060 (Canada) MGB GT V8 Aston Martin DB 2/4 MkII in the wings http://www.britishv8.org/MG/BarrieRobinson.htm TRY www.britcot.com - a unique web site for car goodies _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html Mgb-v8 mailing list Mgb-v8@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgb-v8 From mgb-v8-bounces@autox.team.net Wed Mar 25 18:25:43 2009 From: David Kernberger To: MG Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2009 17:27:06 -0800 Subject: Re: [Mgb-v8] [!! SPAM] Re: Ah, the details........ IS this still an unanswered question? In case it is, I will give it a go. By convention a down stroke is when the piston is moving towards the crankshaft (ie POWER and intake strokes) and an upstroke is when the piston is moving away from the crankshaft (ie compression and exhaust strokes). During the power stroke the force of combustion is downward (toward the crank) on the piston but the upward resistance offered by the connecting rod and crankshaft is partially sideways because the rod is at an angle. The result is the piston is jammed against one side of the cylinder more forcefully than the other. That side is the thrust face. Therefore, as stated below, the small end of the rod will always point toward the thrust face whenever the piston is on a downstroke. But it is only on the power stroke that there is enough force for it to matter very much. On the intake stroke, there is essentially no side thrust at all, simply because cylinder pressue is relatively low. In fact the pressure is below atmospheric I hope that doesn't muddy the waters. Dave K. ------------------------------------------------------------------- >Erm, ask yourself how many engines are installed with the crankshaft above the >combustion chamber! > ----- Original Message ----- > This only leave the question of which way is down? From which end of the >cylinder is one looking? > > > "A simple way to remember which is the thrust face is that the rod points > toward the thrust face on the way down the cylinder. Applies to any engine, > inline or V" and I'll add "clockwise or anti-clockwise". _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html Mgb-v8 mailing list Mgb-v8@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgb-v8 From mgb-v8-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Mar 26 02:48:28 2009 From: "Paul Hunt" To: , "V8 list" , Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2009 17:30:21 -0000 Subject: Re: [Mgb-v8] Different approaches in various parts of the world?? A reminder of what I wrote: "when half way down on the expansion stroke the centre-line of the con-rod is pointing at the thrust face". When half-way 'through' (if 'down' is too confusing) it's expansion stroke the con-rod is pointing at the thrust face, whichever way up the engine is. PaulH. ----- Original Message ----- About ALL of them that I've built have at a point had the crankshaft above the combustion chamber. You may do things differently where you are (meaning no disrespect) but when assembling an engine on an engine stand here it is the normal practice to rotate the block so that the crankshaft is on the top. _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html Mgb-v8 mailing list Mgb-v8@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgb-v8 From mgb-v8-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Mar 26 07:36:03 2009 From: Barrie Robinson To: mgb-v8@autox.team.net Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2009 09:36:35 -0400 Subject: [Mgb-v8] SD1 Gear Box Thanks very much to all that helped me on my SD1 gearbox filling. It just shows how ones memory gets clouded. The fill hole is on the side not at the top where I was looking. Obvious really as this prevents overfilling. Now I remember filling it before - as I said my memory is not a good as it used to be !! So as soon as it warms up - in goes Amsoil synthetic ATF. _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html Mgb-v8 mailing list Mgb-v8@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgb-v8 From mgb-v8-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Mar 26 22:51:35 2009 From: David Kernberger To: MG Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2009 21:52:47 -0800 Subject: Re: [Mgb-v8] [!! SPAM] Re: Ah, the details........ Howard, Thanks for the feedback. I agree with you 100%. Isn't that what I said?? Or did I make some careless error of my own?? Actually I didn't mention the compression stroke at all, I don't think. There is only a relatively small side thrust there. I was only comparing the 2 "down" strokes, intake and power, because the message I was responding to mentioned only "down" strokes. Cheers, Dave K. ------------------------------------------------------------------- >Hi David, >It does muddy the water as it is wrong. The thrust face is forced >against the cylinder wall much harder on the power stroke than on >the compression stroke. Ask any piston manufacture. I was "Product >Information Manager" for a major piston manufacture and at times >handled the liability claims for two major engine parts manufactures >and Importers of import car parts and had to examine many failed >pistons for evaluation of cause. > >Howard Fitzcharles > >-------Original Message------- > >From: David Kernberger >Date: 3/25/2009 6:27:04 PM >To: MG >Subject: Re: [Mgb-v8] [!! SPAM] Re: Ah, the details........ > >IS this still an unanswered question? In case it is, I will give it a go. > > By convention a down stroke is when the piston is moving >towards the crankshaft (ie POWER and intake strokes) and an upstroke >is when the piston is moving away from the crankshaft (ie compression >and exhaust strokes). During the power stroke the force of >combustion is downward (toward the crank) on the piston but the >upward resistance offered by the connecting rod and crankshaft is >partially sideways because the rod is at an angle. The result is the >piston is jammed against one side of the cylinder more forcefully >than the other. That side is the thrust face. > > Therefore, as stated below, the small end of the rod will >always point toward the thrust face whenever the piston is on a >downstroke. But it is only on the power stroke that there is enough >force for it to matter very much. On the intake stroke, there is >essentially no side thrust at all, simply because cylinder pressue is >relatively low. In fact the pressure is below atmospheric > >I hope that doesn't muddy the waters. > >Dave K. _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html Mgb-v8 mailing list Mgb-v8@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgb-v8 From mgb-v8-bounces@autox.team.net Sat Mar 28 19:33:32 2009 From: David Kernberger To: MG Date: Sat, 28 Mar 2009 18:34:06 -0800 Subject: Re: [Mgb-v8] [!! SPAM] Re: Ah, the details........ dHoward, I don't want to be too anxious but I really do want to see if I made a careless error, or are really saying the same thing and have just misunderstood each other. Cheers, Dave K. -------------------------------------------------------------------- Howard, Thanks for the feedback. I agree with you 100%. Isn't that what I said?? Or did I make some careless error of my own?? Actually I didn't mention the compression stroke at all, I don't think. There is only a relatively small side thrust there. I was only comparing the 2 "down" strokes, intake and power, because the message I was responding to mentioned only "down" strokes. Cheers, Dave K. ------------------------------------------------------------------- >Hi David, >It does muddy the water as it is wrong. The thrust face is forced >against the cylinder wall much harder on the power stroke than on >the compression stroke. Ask any piston manufacture. I was "Product >Information Manager" for a major piston manufacture and at times >handled the liability claims for two major engine parts manufactures >and Importers of import car parts and had to examine many failed >pistons for evaluation of cause. > >Howard Fitzcharles > >------------------------------------------------------------------ > > >IS this still an unanswered question? In case it is, I will give it a go. > > By convention a down stroke is when the piston is moving >towards the crankshaft (ie POWER and intake strokes) and an upstroke >is when the piston is moving away from the crankshaft (ie compression >and exhaust strokes). During the power stroke the force of >combustion is downward (toward the crank) on the piston but the >upward resistance offered by the connecting rod and crankshaft is >partially sideways because the rod is at an angle. The result is the >piston is jammed against one side of the cylinder more forcefully >than the other. That side is the thrust face. > > Therefore, as stated below, the small end of the rod will >always point toward the thrust face whenever the piston is on a >downstroke. But it is only on the power stroke that there is enough >force for it to matter very much. On the intake stroke, there is >essentially no side thrust at all, simply because cylinder pressue is >relatively low. In fact the pressure is below atmospheric > >I hope that doesn't muddy the waters. > >Dave K. _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html Mgb-v8 mailing list Mgb-v8@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgb-v8 From mgb-v8-bounces@autox.team.net Mon Mar 30 08:10:07 2009 From: Barrie Robinson To: Max Heim Date: Mon, 30 Mar 2009 10:05:38 -0400 Subject: Re: [Mgb-v8] [Mgs] Weather report Max, Go to www.britcot.com and get yourself a new gear shift knob from Larry - I got one for my DB 2/4 - it is gorgeous At 08:24 PM 3/29/2009, you wrote: >Balmy here in the SF Bay Area. I just came in from removing my snugtop for >the season. Also epoxied the badge back into the shift knob (2nd time it has >popped out). Yesterday I installed a new cowl seal -- standard household >foam weatherstrip this time (a little thicker than what Moss provided). > >-- > >Max Heim >'66 MGB GHN3L76149 >If you're near Mountain View, CA, >it's the primer red one with chrome wires > > > >on 3/29/09 1:40 PM, jello@cableone.net at jello@cableone.net wrote: > > > Opposite weather report. It's 31 and snowing here in Idaho Falls > > Idaho. Maybe it will warm up in 3 or 4 weeks. > > > > Phil Bates > > '67MGB daily driver (with a snugtop hardtop) > > > > > > Eric Markley wrote: > >> It's about 75 degrees, sunny and breezy in Jacksonville today. > Just got back > >> from a short cruise in the B. It reminds that it wants me to spend some > >> money on it. > >> > >> Eric in Florida > >> 74 B >_______________________________________________ >Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > >You are subscribed as barrie@look.ca > > >Mgs@autox.team.net >http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgs > >http://www.team.net/archive Regards Barrie (705) 721-9060 _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html Mgb-v8 mailing list Mgb-v8@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgb-v8