From mgs-bounces@autox.team.net Sun Feb 1 09:12:55 2009 From: Dan DiBiase To: Rick Lindsay , mgs@autox.team.net Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2009 08:11:52 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: [Mgs] British Car Cottage Industries web site Rick, what happened to the B?? Dan D Central NJ USA '76 MGB Tourer '65 MGB Tourer (Project) NAMGBR #5-2328 http://dans65b.blogspot.com/ http://dans76b.blogspot.com/ http://dansautoblog.blogspot.com/ http://mywebpages.comcast.net/dibiase/Working_MG_Gallery.html http://dans-life-blog.blogspot.com/ ________________________________ From: Rick Lindsay To: mgb-v8@autox.team.net; mgs@autox.team.net; Barrie Robinson Sent: Saturday, January 31, 2009 4:19:53 PM Subject: Re: [Mgs] British Car Cottage Industries web site Funny, I had forgotten all about that site. It's a great resource and I hope it continues to expand! Thanks for bringing it up again! rick - MG-less, for now _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html Mgs@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgs http://www.team.net/archive From mgs-bounces@autox.team.net Sun Feb 1 09:22:35 2009 From: Rick Lindsay To: mgs@autox.team.net, Dan DiBiase Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2009 08:22:09 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: [Mgs] British Car Cottage Industries web site Traded it for an '83 Ferrari Mondial QV. --- On Sun, 2/1/09, Dan DiBiase wrote: > From: Dan DiBiase > Subject: Re: [Mgs] British Car Cottage Industries web site > To: "Rick Lindsay" , mgs@autox.team.net > Date: Sunday, February 1, 2009, 10:11 AM > Rick, what happened to the B?? > > Dan D > Central NJ USA > '76 MGB Tourer > '65 MGB Tourer (Project) > NAMGBR #5-2328 > http://dans65b.blogspot.com/ > http://dans76b.blogspot.com/ > http://dansautoblog.blogspot.com/ > http://mywebpages.comcast.net/dibiase/Working_MG_Gallery.html > http://dans-life-blog.blogspot.com/ > > > > > > ________________________________ > From: Rick Lindsay > To: mgb-v8@autox.team.net; mgs@autox.team.net; Barrie > Robinson > Sent: Saturday, January 31, 2009 4:19:53 PM > Subject: Re: [Mgs] British Car Cottage Industries web site > > Funny, I had forgotten all about that site. It's a > great resource and I hope it continues to expand! Thanks > for bringing it up again! > > rick - MG-less, for now _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html Mgs@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgs http://www.team.net/archive From mgs-bounces@autox.team.net Sun Feb 1 13:08:01 2009 From: Simon Matthews To: mgs@autox.team.net Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2009 12:07:38 -0800 Subject: Re: [Mgs] MGB rear disc brakes On Sat, Jan 31, 2009 at 8:12 PM, Ed's Shop wrote: > <> > How about this: registrant-firstname: Mark registrant-lastname: Janis registrant-organization: Scarebird Mechanical registrant-street1: 207 203rd Pl SW registrant-pcode: 98036 registrant-state: WA registrant-city: Lynnwood registrant-ccode: US registrant-phone: +1.4256720377 registrant-email: biznz5qa@verizon.net Simon _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html Mgs@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgs http://www.team.net/archive From mgs-bounces@autox.team.net Sun Feb 1 17:37:04 2009 From: philip.s.jones@comcast.net (Phil Jones) To: mgs@autox.team.net Date: Mon, 02 Feb 2009 00:36:39 +0000 Subject: [Mgs] MGB rear disc brakes Scarebird is local to me. Members of the local MG car club have installed their kits and been very pleased. I have no direct experience. Safety fast! Phil _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html Mgs@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgs http://www.team.net/archive From mgs-bounces@autox.team.net Sun Feb 1 23:26:54 2009 From: Wilkmanracing@aol.com To: mgs@autox.team.net Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2009 01:26:19 EST Subject: Re: [Mgs] British Car Cottage Industries web site I think the idea of your web site is outstanding. And I too cannot understand why more small-scale suppliers don't take advantage of your services. The only thing I can think of is that some suppliers may get all the business they can handle via word-of-mouth, thus limiting their incentive to look for a broader audience. Keep the web site going, though, as I think it has great potential. BTW, I have used the electrical rebuilder you referred (_http://www.britishautoelectric.com/index.html_ (http://www.britishautoelectric.com/index.html) ) to many times and have found him to be both reasonably priced and very good. He knows the old stuff really well and has parts and testing equipment few others have. Bill Wilkman 1960 MGA **************Who's never won? Biggest Grammy Award surprises of all time on AOL Music. (http://music.aol.com/grammys/pictures/never-won-a-grammy?ncid=emlcntusmusi00000001) _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html Mgs@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgs http://www.team.net/archive From mgs-bounces@autox.team.net Mon Feb 2 06:45:06 2009 From: Dan DiBiase To: Rick Lindsay , mgs@autox.team.net Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2009 05:44:37 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: [Mgs] British Car Cottage Industries web site Well, that sounds like a pretty good deal, Rick..... Dan D Central NJ USA '76 MGB Tourer '65 MGB Tourer (Project) NAMGBR #5-2328 http://dans65b.blogspot.com/ http://dans76b.blogspot.com/ http://dansautoblog.blogspot.com/ http://mywebpages.comcast.net/dibiase/Working_MG_Gallery.html http://dans-life-blog.blogspot.com/ ________________________________ From: Rick Lindsay To: mgs@autox.team.net; Dan DiBiase Sent: Sunday, February 1, 2009 11:22:09 AM Subject: Re: [Mgs] British Car Cottage Industries web site Traded it for an '83 Ferrari Mondial QV. --- On Sun, 2/1/09, Dan DiBiase wrote: > From: Dan DiBiase > Subject: Re: [Mgs] British Car Cottage Industries web site > To: "Rick Lindsay" , mgs@autox.team.net > Date: Sunday, February 1, 2009, 10:11 AM > Rick, what happened to the B?? > > Dan D > Central NJ USA > '76 MGB Tourer > '65 MGB Tourer (Project) > NAMGBR #5-2328 > http://dans65b.blogspot.com/ > http://dans76b.blogspot.com/ > http://dansautoblog.blogspot.com/ > http://mywebpages.comcast.net/dibiase/Working_MG_Gallery.html > http://dans-life-blog.blogspot.com/ > > > > > > ________________________________ > From: Rick Lindsay > To: mgb-v8@autox.team.net; mgs@autox.team.net; Barrie > Robinson > Sent: Saturday, January 31, 2009 4:19:53 PM > Subject: Re: [Mgs] British Car Cottage Industries web site > > Funny, I had forgotten all about that site. It's a > great resource and I hope it continues to expand! Thanks > for bringing it up again! > > rick - MG-less, for now _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html Mgs@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgs http://www.team.net/archive From mgs-bounces@autox.team.net Mon Feb 2 11:42:31 2009 From: "oliver" To: Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2009 12:40:19 -0600 Subject: [Mgs] alternator mounting Hi, all. i have a 73 b roadster with the pollution equipment mostly removed. it had this enormous air conditioning unit that the alternator was bolted to. i've removed all the a/c stuff since it never worked anyway, is almost as old as the car, and heavy. i'm trying to now mount the alternator more or less as it would have come on a pre smog car. i would really appreciate some pictures so i can figure this puzzle out. i may have the bracket that the alternator bolts to, on the other side of the water pump. but i'm pretty sure i need whatever the alternator swings on so it can be tightened. none of my mg books show this. anyone have a spare to sell? does it indeed move or is it solid? if so what moves to get the belt on and off? thanks! _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html Mgs@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgs http://www.team.net/archive From mgs-bounces@autox.team.net Mon Feb 2 12:16:10 2009 From: Dan DiBiase To: oliver , mgs@autox.team.net Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2009 11:15:47 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: [Mgs] alternator mounting Dave, my '76 B (with '75 B engine) has a bracket that I believe would be similar to your '73. There are some pictures of the hardware here - http://s24.photobucket.com/albums/c30/ddibiase/1976%20MGB%20Engine%20Work/?start=40 Second row of pictures. Dan D Central NJ USA '76 MGB Tourer '65 MGB Tourer (Project) NAMGBR #5-2328 http://dans65b.blogspot.com/ http://dans76b.blogspot.com/ http://dansautoblog.blogspot.com/ http://mywebpages.comcast.net/dibiase/Working_MG_Gallery.html http://dans-life-blog.blogspot.com/ ________________________________ From: oliver To: mgs@autox.team.net Sent: Monday, February 2, 2009 1:40:19 PM Subject: [Mgs] alternator mounting Hi, all. i have a 73 b roadster with the pollution equipment mostly removed. it had this enormous air conditioning unit that the alternator was bolted to. i've removed all the a/c stuff since it never worked anyway, is almost as old as the car, and heavy. i'm trying to now mount the alternator more or less as it would have come on a pre smog car. i would really appreciate some pictures so i can figure this puzzle out. i may have the bracket that the alternator bolts to, on the other side of the water pump. but i'm pretty sure i need whatever the alternator swings on so it can be tightened. none of my mg books show this. anyone have a spare to sell? does it indeed move or is it solid? if so what moves to get the belt on and off? thanks! _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html You are subscribed as d_dibiase@yahoo.com Mgs@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgs http://www.team.net/archive _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html Mgs@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgs http://www.team.net/archive From mgs-bounces@autox.team.net Mon Feb 2 16:26:43 2009 From: "dannyvarnado" To: "Matthew Milkevitch" , Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2009 15:26:04 -0800 Subject: Re: [Mgs] MGB rear disc brakes Look very closely at rear disk brake conversions. Emergency brake set up is sometimes a problem. Danny V. '58 MGA '76 MGB V-6 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Matthew Milkevitch" To: Sent: Saturday, January 31, 2009 3:29 PM Subject: [Mgs] MGB rear disc brakes > Fellow Listers; > > While browsing Ebay recently, I came across a company selling MGB rear > disc brake kits. The name of this company is Scarebird Classic Brakes > (http://www.scarebird.com). Does anyone have any experience with their > kits? > > > Thanks.... > > Matt M. > '74 MGB-GT > Willow Grove, PA > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > > You are subscribed as dannyvarnado@cox.net > > > Mgs@autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgs > > http://www.team.net/archive _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html Mgs@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgs http://www.team.net/archive From mgs-bounces@autox.team.net Mon Feb 2 17:01:38 2009 From: "Chad Cooper" To: "'oliver'" , Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2009 17:59:46 -0600 Subject: Re: [Mgs] alternator mounting Most auto parts stores sell a universal bracket in the hot rod section that will do what you need. It's an arched piece that allows for adjustment. -----Original Message----- From: mgs-bounces@autox.team.net [mailto:mgs-bounces@autox.team.net] On Behalf Of oliver Sent: Monday, February 02, 2009 12:40 PM To: mgs@autox.team.net Subject: [Mgs] alternator mounting Hi, all. i have a 73 b roadster with the pollution equipment mostly removed. it had this enormous air conditioning unit that the alternator was bolted to. i've removed all the a/c stuff since it never worked anyway, is almost as old as the car, and heavy. i'm trying to now mount the alternator more or less as it would have come on a pre smog car. i would really appreciate some pictures so i can figure this puzzle out. i may have the bracket that the alternator bolts to, on the other side of the water pump. but i'm pretty sure i need whatever the alternator swings on so it can be tightened. none of my mg books show this. anyone have a spare to sell? does it indeed move or is it solid? if so what moves to get the belt on and off? thanks! e _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html Mgs@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgs http://www.team.net/archive From mgs-bounces@autox.team.net Mon Feb 2 17:36:22 2009 From: Max Heim To: MG List Date: Mon, 02 Feb 2009 16:28:10 -0800 Subject: Re: [Mgs] alternator mounting Yup. For my alternator conversion I just cut a piece of bar stock to length, drilled a hole in one end and cut a slot in the other, then neatly radiused the corners and painted it -- done. It doesn't have to be curved, if you just loosen up the bolt on the other end when adjusting it. -- Max Heim '66 MGB GHN3L76149 If you're near Mountain View, CA, it's the primer red one with chrome wires PS: In my installation, the slot is actually on the bottom, not at the alternator end. Just seemed to work better that way. On 2/2/09 3:59 PM, Chad Cooper at mgb72@airmail.net wrote: > Most auto parts stores sell a universal bracket in the hot rod section that > will do what you need. It's an arched piece that allows for adjustment. > > -----Original Message----- > From: mgs-bounces@autox.team.net [mailto:mgs-bounces@autox.team.net] On > Behalf Of oliver > Sent: Monday, February 02, 2009 12:40 PM > To: mgs@autox.team.net > Subject: [Mgs] alternator mounting > > Hi, all. > > i have a 73 b roadster with the pollution equipment mostly removed. > > it had this enormous air conditioning unit that the alternator was bolted > to. i've removed all the a/c stuff since it never worked anyway, is almost > as old as the car, and heavy. > > i'm trying to now mount the alternator more or less as it would have come on > > a pre smog car. i would really appreciate some pictures so i can figure > this puzzle out. i may have the bracket that the alternator bolts to, on > the other side of the water pump. but i'm pretty sure i need whatever the > alternator swings on so it can be tightened. none of my mg books show this. > > anyone have a spare to sell? does it indeed move or is it solid? if so > what moves to get the belt on and off? > > thanks! > e _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html Mgs@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgs http://www.team.net/archive From mgs-bounces@autox.team.net Tue Feb 3 18:11:41 2009 From: "oliver" To: Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2009 19:11:40 -0600 Subject: [Mgs] water pump qs - is the pulley shaft on the water pump for the earlier cars (pre smog) shorter? so the pulley sits closer to the block? thanks. _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html Mgs@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgs http://www.team.net/archive From mgs-bounces@autox.team.net Tue Feb 3 18:39:19 2009 From: Max Heim To: MG List Date: Tue, 03 Feb 2009 17:38:43 -0800 Subject: Re: [Mgs] water pump Hmm, I don't know about the water pump snout itself, but the pulley on early cars has a huge offset so that the belt is actually riding 2 or 3 inches behind the flange surface of the water pump, which amounts to the same thing (if I understand what you're getting at). -- Max Heim '66 MGB GHN3L76149 If you're near Mountain View, CA, it's the primer red one with chrome wires on 2/3/09 5:11 PM, oliver at sumton@sbcglobal.net wrote: > qs - is the pulley shaft on the water pump for the earlier cars (pre smog) > shorter? so the pulley sits closer to the block? > > thanks. _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html Mgs@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgs http://www.team.net/archive From mgs-bounces@autox.team.net Tue Feb 3 21:06:31 2009 From: Phil Bates To: oliver Date: Tue, 03 Feb 2009 21:06:02 -0700 Subject: Re: [Mgs] water pump I'm not sure of the details either, but I know this - I have n MGA with a 3 main MGB engine - and the 3 main B water pump doesn't fit well with a later pulley. I had a shim approx 5/16 thick made so that the belt would line up using the pump. On another note, Barney claims to have 200,000 + miles on an MGA cast iron water pump. Mine went bad with some unknown amount of mileage, BUT I had it rebuilt for about the same price as replacing it. Not only that, but the body was fine, and always will be - since it's cast iron - whereas the aftermarket pumps tend to be pot metal....and I've had the generator mount ear break off of them. Phil Bates oliver wrote: > qs - is the pulley shaft on the water pump for the earlier cars (pre > smog) shorter? so the pulley sits closer to the block? > > thanks. _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > > You are subscribed as jello@cableone.net > > > Mgs@autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgs > > http://www.team.net/archive _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html Mgs@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgs http://www.team.net/archive From mgs-bounces@autox.team.net Tue Feb 3 21:59:54 2009 From: "Councill, David" To: "oliver" , Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2009 21:59:26 -0700 Subject: Re: [Mgs] water pump Yes. The pulley was a dual pulley for the air pump and alternator. Thus the shaft had to be extended to accommodate the larger pulley. Perhaps an inch or so. The change occurred around 1971 or 1972. David Councill 67 BGT 72 B -----Original Message----- From: mgs-bounces@autox.team.net [mailto:mgs-bounces@autox.team.net] On Behalf Of oliver Sent: Tuesday, February 03, 2009 6:12 PM To: mgs@autox.team.net Subject: [Mgs] water pump qs - is the pulley shaft on the water pump for the earlier cars (pre smog) shorter? so the pulley sits closer to the block? thanks. _______________________________________________ _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html Mgs@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgs http://www.team.net/archive From mgs-bounces@autox.team.net Wed Feb 4 07:52:48 2009 From: Bob Howard To: mgs@autox.team.net Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2009 09:37:49 -0500 Subject: Re: [Mgs] water pump Oliver, Expect definitive info from others; all I can offer is puzzling experience. Each of my MGBs has had mix&match waterpumps, spacers & fans. All these can be swapped around and, unless you know the engine is as built, you will have to check carefully what you have. Given the choice, the late plastic fan moves the most air with least horsepower consumption. They were OS everywhere when I rebuilt, so I re-used the metal seven blade fan. New waterpump, ordered for my 18V, was different from old waterpump that I had thought was the right one. Maybe it was, or maybe the supplier shipped the wrong pump. I wanted to trim off one of the grooves from the pulley anyway, as I removed the air pump and modified the thermostat housing by grinding off the air pump support, so ended up making a shim to fit inside the fan pulley to move belt groove back in line with crankshaft and alternator groove. It's about 1/4" thick, made from a scrap I had around the garage, and I don't even remember now if it's aluminium or steel. I also believe that there were different pulleys, single groove and double groove, but the configuration of the double groove pulleys may have varied. Don't know this for certain, but it seems most everyone who has a car that has been through a number of owners has to sort out this pulley, pump, spacer problem. Just give yourself time to sort this out before you need to drive the car to get somewhere important. These water pump/fan/alternator issues may be clear in the textbooks, but they are far from clear out in our garages. Bob On Tue, 3 Feb 2009 19:11:40 -0600 "oliver" writes: > qs - is the pulley shaft on the water pump for the earlier cars (pre > smog) shorter? Yes, there were both a short snout and a long snout pump. so the pulley sits closer to the block? - -- maybe, but check it for groove alignment and clearance off the waterpump. > > thanks. ____________________________________________________________ WATCH THE EXTERMINATORS ON A&E Wed Feb 4 10.30/9.30C join Billy tackling the worst pests imaginable http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/fc/u4MuScM2GS6Bp5tzolc3icGcaj1zgMybJIYWQZhjOKJYdNmxkkapv/ _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html Mgs@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgs http://www.team.net/archive From mgs-bounces@autox.team.net Wed Feb 4 23:34:48 2009 From: cyberemp@comcast.net To: MG LIST Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2009 06:03:20 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Mgs] flywheel ponderings Hello fellow mgers. I'm going to try to adapt another flywheel to my mg crankshaft in a devious experiment that shall remain a mystery for now. I would like to know the following. 1. Did the hole pattern remain the same throughout the MG life for the A series engine?B B B ( think thats the term. Motor used from mga through mgb) 2. what is the pattern of studs coming off the crankshaft that the flywheel bolts too? ( i.e. 6X? ) 3. Are there any other makes of car that have a flywheel that is interchangable with this pattern? Many thanks for all responses! Eric "mad scientist" peterson _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html Mgs@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgs http://www.team.net/archive From mgs-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Feb 5 07:25:51 2009 From: WSpohn4@aol.com To: cyberemp@comcast.net, mgs@autox.team.net Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2009 09:25:21 EST Subject: Re: [Mgs] flywheel ponderings No, the pattern is quite different on the 3 main than the 5 main engines, all of which are correctly referred to as B series, not A series (which were used in Midgets etc.) Flywheels are a very bad thing to try and 'roll your own' unless you simply refer the matter to a knowledgeable machinist. But hey - they are your ankles... I would not even consider trying to mate a flywheel from another engine to the MG crank - unless that match is exact the result will be dangerous. It normally requires custom machined flywheels (which are available). What exactly are you attempting to accomplish? Bill S. In a message dated 04/02/2009 10:34:50 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, cyberemp@comcast.net writes: 1. Did the hole pattern remain the same throughout the MG life for the A series engine?B B B ( think thats the term. Motor used from mga through mgb) _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html Mgs@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgs http://www.team.net/archive From mgs-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Feb 5 13:53:19 2009 From: "Ed's Shop" To: "MG LIST" Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2009 14:53:01 -0600 Subject: Re: [Mgs] flywheel ponderings <1. Did the hole pattern remain the same throughout the MG life for the A series engine?B B B ( think thats the term. Motor used from mga through mgb)>> Nope. Although I am pretty sure the patterns remained the same thru the life of the V-8 and the 6 cyl. motors. <<2. what is the pattern of studs coming off the crankshaft that the flywheel bolts too? ( i.e. 6X? ) Why not just look at your handy, friendly Moss Motors site. Tell you in a heart beat. <<3. Are there any other makes of car that have a flywheel that is interchangeable with this pattern?<>> Chevy 409. Prob'ly weighs around 90 pounds!! Oh wait, 8 bolt pattern for a 8 inch flange!!! Sorry. T.A.E. _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html Mgs@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgs http://www.team.net/archive From mgs-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Feb 6 14:17:22 2009 From: "Hans Duinhoven" To: Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2009 22:16:43 +0100 Subject: [Mgs] Tulip Rally theme Today the Dutch MG Car Club region West arranged their monthly club meeting with the theme of the Tulip Rally. This famous rally went through Europe in the fifties and sixties. Always starting in the Netherlands and the route goes through many European countries like Belgium, France, Italy, Switserland, Germany, Luxemburg etc. Nowadays the Tulip Rally still exists, but is for classic cars only. So a couple of the clubmembers have made a presentation how they did the rally with their MG. When this presentation was announced, I suggested to publish a matching MG picture. The regional webmaster liked the idea and also like my story about my other hobby - my 1970 and 1974 Puch mopeds. The 2nd pic is about a Puch meeting two weeks ago at The Hague. 375 of these "hippy bikes" of the sixties - seventies gathered. Fun! Cheers, Hans 71 BGT http://www.mgcarclub.nl/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=286:het-regioplaatje-van-de-week&catid=914:mededelingen-a-verslagen&Itemid=86 _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html Mgs@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgs http://www.team.net/archive From mgs-bounces@autox.team.net Sun Feb 8 06:54:07 2009 From: "davewillner" To: Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2009 08:53:22 -0500 Subject: [Mgs] original Tex wiper arm part needed Morning...I'm looking for an original TEX wiper arm for my 70. I really only need the small "contoured" nut (on the underneath side) that tightens against the wheel box shaft while the philips head screw (on the outside) tightens it down. Anyone have an old original spare nut lying around? Can't seem to locate it...appreciate the help. Dave Willner Stroudsburg, PA 59 TR3A Apple Green 70 MGB BRG 70 BSA 441 Victor Special _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html Mgs@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgs http://www.team.net/archive From mgs-bounces@autox.team.net Sun Feb 8 11:32:41 2009 From: "Norm" To: "MG Digest" , "Spridgets Digest" Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2009 13:32:14 -0500 Subject: [Mgs] Setting Toe-In Seeking suggestions for easiest way to measure toe-in accurately without professional equipment. I'm currently using 2 pieces of rectangular aluminum bar taped to each tire. But, that is affected by the shape of the tire. Without making a jig that attaches to the wheels, how do you helpful folks recommend I do this? Thanks in advance. Norm '59 Turner _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html Mgs@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgs http://www.team.net/archive From mgs-bounces@autox.team.net Sun Feb 8 13:01:37 2009 From: The Roxter To: "datsun" Date: Sun, 08 Feb 2009 14:01:12 -0600 Subject: Re: [Mgs] Setting Toe-In Norm wrote: > Seeking suggestions for easiest way to measure toe-in accurately without > professional equipment. I'm currently using 2 pieces of rectangular > aluminum bar taped to each tire. But, that is affected by the shape of the > tire. Without making a jig that attaches to the wheels, how do you helpful > folks recommend I do this? You can do pretty well by spinning each front tyre and marking carefully with a sharpened chalk held to the middle of the tyre as it spins. Then measure the distance between the marks at the front and rear of the tyres. -The Roxter -- _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html Mgs@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgs http://www.team.net/archive From mgs-bounces@autox.team.net Sun Feb 8 17:14:38 2009 From: Glenn Schnittke To: mgs@autox.team.net Date: Sun, 08 Feb 2009 18:13:30 -0600 Subject: Re: [Mgs] Setting Toe-in >Seeking suggestions for easiest way to measure toe-in accurately without >professional equipment. I'm currently using 2 pieces of rectangular >aluminum bar taped to each tire. But, that is affected by the shape of the >tire. Without making a jig that attaches to the wheels, how do you helpful >folks recommend I do this? I have done this quite accurately with a long stick, two pencils or sharpened pieces of rod (preferably about the length of the tire radius), and a pair of straight pins. Find a stick long enough to reach from the outside of one tire to the outside of the other. FIRMLY attach the sharpened pencils or rod to the stick at a point near the center of each tire. On a flat surface roll the car straight forward a few feet to get everything centered. Set the stick with the rods leaning against the rear of the tires and near the radius height and mark each point with a straight pin. Roll the car forwad again until the pins are at the front quadrant at about the same height. Measure the difference. Do your math and adjust the tie-rods accordingly. It may take a few tries to get it right, but I've found it just as accurate as any professional toe setting equipment. REMOVE THE STRAIGHT PINS. Moss, VB, etc., sell a cheap toe gauge that works quite well. I have one and have found the math a little stranger, but quicker. I seem to remember mine didn't cost more than thirty bucks, but I've had it a long time. After I wrote that I checked. It's Moss p/n 387-085 and now costs $49.95 from them. I don't work for Moss, nor do any of my relatives. I've talked to Kelvin on the phone, and on the substance of that conversation, I like him, but that's as far as I'm going unless I get bailout money or a kickback. Glenn ______________________ Glenn Schnittke 615-319-5534 g.schnittke@comcast.net _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html Mgs@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgs http://www.team.net/archive From mgs-bounces@autox.team.net Sun Feb 8 19:19:04 2009 From: Dan DiBiase To: mg-mgb@yahoogroups.com, MG List Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2009 18:18:03 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Mgs] 'Real' MGB GT V8 in USA on eBay Well, kind of in the USA - it's in California.... ;-) NFI blah blah blah http://tinyurl.com/dg29rh Dan D Central NJ USA '76 MGB Tourer '65 MGB Tourer (Project) NAMGBR #5-2328 http://dans65b.blogspot.com/ http://dans76b.blogspot.com/ http://dansautoblog.blogspot.com/ http://mywebpages.comcast.net/dibiase/Working_MG_Gallery.html http://dans-life-blog.blogspot.com/ _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html Mgs@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgs http://www.team.net/archive From mgs-bounces@autox.team.net Sun Feb 8 20:34:30 2009 From: "Ed's Shop" To: "Dan DiBiase" , , "MG Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2009 21:34:24 -0600 Subject: Re: [Mgs] 'Real' MGB GT V8 in USA on eBay Holy Smokes, Dan !! Now THAT is a FIND!!! And at $20K, not a bas price IMHO?!?!?! Kelvin, know the car??? Rick I., gonna fly out & drive home!!!! _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html Mgs@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgs http://www.team.net/archive From mgs-bounces@autox.team.net Mon Feb 9 02:14:14 2009 From: "Paul Hunt" To: , "Glenn Schnittke" Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2009 08:55:00 -0000 Subject: Re: [Mgs] Setting Toe-in This is basically the method specified in the Toyota Celica Workshop Manual, but the two pointers are adjusted to touch the middle of the tyres *in line with the axle* and those points marked. No maths involved, on the other side i.e. the car rolled forward half a revolution with the pole set so one pointer is in the middle of its tyre on its mark again in line with the axle, you just measure the distance between the other pointer and the middle of its tyre. That is the toe. PaulH. ----- Original Message ----- I have done this quite accurately with a long stick, two pencils or sharpened pieces of rod (preferably about the length of the tire radius), and a pair of straight pins... _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html Mgs@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgs http://www.team.net/archive From mgs-bounces@autox.team.net Mon Feb 9 08:17:09 2009 From: Bob Howard To: nsippel@mindspring.com Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2009 10:12:19 -0500 Subject: Re: [Mgs] Setting Toe-In Norm, Another way to do this is to support the front suspension control arms so weight of the car is on them, remove tires, then do the measuring with your aluminum bars attached to the brake drums/discs. A problem with this is that unless you unfasten and re-fasten the aluminum bars during the process, you won't get a true 180 degree measurement that is parallel to road surface. If the bars are 15/20 degrees off horizontal, how much effect would there be on the toe-in? I do not know how to calculate this, but suspect that it is so small that it may be ignored. Others may know better. The trusty piece of string is surprisingly accurate too. Although the tires appear to bulge differently, when I did it this way on my TD last summer there was such a small difference when various tire front & rear tires were turned to different positions that I thought my measurements faulty. Took it to alignment shop and they said that there was no adjustment needed to the toe-in. Bob On Sun, 8 Feb 2009 13:32:14 -0500 "Norm" writes: > Seeking suggestions for easiest way to measure toe-in accurately > without professional equipment. I'm currently using 2 pieces of > rectangular aluminum bar taped to each tire. But, that is affected by the shape > of the tire. Without making a jig that attaches to the wheels, how do you > helpful folks recommend I do this? > > Thanks in advance. > > Norm > '59 Turner ____________________________________________________________ Click to consolidate debt and lower month expenses. http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/fc/PnY6rw2PBHhF8gumquHVogesIVL4so0w4NndolbNZRjr8e3A9KB61/ _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html Mgs@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgs http://www.team.net/archive From mgs-bounces@autox.team.net Mon Feb 9 13:10:48 2009 From: cyberemp@comcast.net To: MG LIST Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2009 20:10:23 +0000 (UTC) Subject: Re: [Mgs] Setting Toe-In my brother, once a front end and brake mechanic for a number of local chain auto repair shops, told me this approach: On a level surface, like a parking lot, bring your car to a gentle stop using the parking brake. Using the regular brakes affects the toe in, and will not result in a working toe in. B B Take two yard sticks. (meter sticks, In the UK I guess) those are just long rulers of three feet, or a lot of centimeters. (okay, 1,000)? B B Measure from same height of the front of the wheel, and the rear part of the wheel. B try for the furthest points forward and back, level with the ground. Rubber varies much more than steel, so don't measure from the tire. use the wheel. B B see the difference in the measurement taken from the front of the wheel and the back of the wheel.B B B If it's less in front, that's your rough toe in. (you did ask for a way to estimate roughly, right)? If it's more in front, that's toe out, of course. B B B It's a simple enough procedure, but I don't know how simply I managed to explain it. :-) B B Eric. B B 46 TC B B 59 MGA B B 65 MGB B B 70 MGB B B 71 MGB (for sale! buy it! buy it!) B B 74.5 MGBB B B 75 Ford F-250 Tow vehicle B B 00 Xterra B 4X4 (former tow vehicle. For sale! buy it! buy it)! B B 03 Jetta TDI commuter. Yay! 45MPG. B B I'm out of parking! my neighbors hate me!! _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html Mgs@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgs http://www.team.net/archive From mgs-bounces@autox.team.net Mon Feb 9 15:19:26 2009 From: INTOCARS@aol.com To: mgs@autox.team.net Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2009 17:18:47 EST Subject: [Mgs] What is this part? I have a 1969 MGB-GT that I am getting back into running condition. There is an electrical part that I cannot identify and I need some help. It is located in the engine compartment on the passenger side(left hand drive) on the firewall. It is about 5-inches below the windshield washer reservoir(and heater fan motor), has one red and two green wires attached and is about 2 1/2 inches wide. It might be a voltage stabilizer ? Can you help? Bob Dallas **************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy steps! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1218550342x1201216770/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072%26hmpgID=62%26bcd=fe bemailfooterNO62) _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html Mgs@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgs http://www.team.net/archive From mgs-bounces@autox.team.net Mon Feb 9 16:55:05 2009 From: Paul Root To: INTOCARS@aol.com Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2009 17:54:07 -0600 Subject: Re: [Mgs] What is this part? Sounds like maybe the starter relay. But that should be N (brown), WN (white brown), and WR (white red). Trace the wires. http://www.advanceautowires.com/mgb.pdf On Feb 9, 2009, at 4:18 PM, INTOCARS@aol.com wrote: > I have a 1969 MGB-GT that I am getting back into running > condition. There > is an electrical part that I cannot identify and I need some help. > It is > located in the engine compartment on the passenger side(left hand > drive) on the > firewall. It is about 5-inches below the windshield washer > reservoir(and > heater fan motor), has one red and two green wires attached and is > about 2 1/2 > inches wide. It might be a voltage stabilizer ? > Can you help? > Bob Dallas > **************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just > 2 easy > steps! > (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1218550342x1201216770/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx > ?sc=668072%26hmpgID=62%26bcd=fe > bemailfooterNO62) > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > > You are subscribed as ptrmgb@gmail.com > > > Mgs@autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgs > > http://www.team.net/archive _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html Mgs@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgs http://www.team.net/archive From mgs-bounces@autox.team.net Mon Feb 9 20:23:47 2009 From: Steve To: "Ed's Shop" Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2009 22:23:22 -0500 Subject: Re: [Mgs] 'Real' MGB GT V8 in USA on eBay Dan - I don't know if you know this trick, but its a little easier: http://www.ebayitem.com/140298671651 Just append the item# to the end of the URL, saves a step or two with tinyurl. - Steve On Sun, Feb 8, 2009 at 10:34 PM, Ed's Shop wrote: > Holy Smokes, Dan !! > > Now THAT is a FIND!!! > > And at $20K, not a bas price IMHO?!?!?! > > Kelvin, know the car??? > > Rick I., gonna fly out & drive home!!!! > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > > You are subscribed as temporarilyoffline@gmail.com > > > Mgs@autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgs > > http://www.team.net/archive _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html Mgs@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgs http://www.team.net/archive From mgs-bounces@autox.team.net Mon Feb 9 20:42:40 2009 From: don To: mgs@autox.team.net Date: Mon, 09 Feb 2009 19:42:11 -0800 Subject: [Mgs] 'Real' MGB GT V8 in USA on eBay This is certainly a rarity in the US. Wonder what it would it cost to convert to LHD, assuming it can be done? Some of the pieces could be found on US spec Bs I would guess. But not the dashboard- could those pieces be obtained from the UK? Anyone know? Don Scott 1962 MGA 1973 MGB GT 1991 Miata BRG >On Sun, Feb 8, 2009 at 10:34 PM, Ed's Shop wrote: > > Holy Smokes, Dan !! > > > > Now THAT is a FIND!!! > > > > And at $20K, not a bas price IMHO?!?!?! > > > > Kelvin, know the car??? > > > > Rick I., gonna fly out & drive home!!!! > > _______________________________________________ > > -- Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.552 / Virus Database: 270.10.19/1939 - Release Date: 02/07/2009 1:39 PM _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html Mgs@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgs http://www.team.net/archive From mgs-bounces@autox.team.net Tue Feb 10 01:53:40 2009 From: "mg.carma" To: Dan DiBiase Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2009 03:53:06 -0500 Subject: Re: [Mgs] 'Real' MGB GT V8 in USA on eBay or, how about this one? It is on the green pages classifieds (www.mgcars.org.uk ), in virginia @ 13,500. http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y165/mgcarma/MGBGT%20V8/DSCN2041.jpg On Feb 8, 2009, at 9:18 PM, Dan DiBiase wrote > Well, kind of in the USA - it's in California.... ;-) > > NFI blah blah blah > > http://tinyurl.com/dg29rh > > Dan D > Central NJ USA > '76 MGB Tourer > '65 MGB Tourer (Project) > NAMGBR #5-2328 > http://dans65b.blogspot.com/ > http://dans76b.blogspot.com/ > http://dansautoblog.blogspot.com/ > http://mywebpages.comcast.net/dibiase/Working_MG_Gallery.html > http://dans-life-blog.blogspot.com/ > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > > You are subscribed as mg.carma@verizon.net > > > Mgs@autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgs > > http://www.team.net/archive _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html Mgs@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgs http://www.team.net/archive From mgs-bounces@autox.team.net Tue Feb 10 07:14:00 2009 From: "Paul Hunt" To: , Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2009 14:04:42 -0000 Subject: Re: [Mgs] What is this part? The instrument voltage stabiliser is inside the cabin, is about a quarter the size of that and had green and light-green/brown wires. The starter relay should be on the right-hand inner wing by the fusebox, not the firewall. Off-hand I can't think of any electrical components on the firewall after the D-type OD relay and vacuum switch (several wires) on the left-hand (facing forwards) side, and the later fuel pump inertia switch. Whilst green is fused ignition, red is parking lights, and you would never normally have the two connected together so it looks like an aftermarket gizmo or PO bodge. Unlikely to be a relay, it *could* be a ballast resistance to power the headlights on dim when the parking lights were on, some cars of the 80s had a similar system, but only when the ignition is on. Or possibly a 2-stage resistor for the heater fan. The thing to do is disconnect the wires from the device and either see what no longer works, or measure the voltage on each wire with each electrical circuit in the car powered on and off in turn. Assuming you can't trace the wires to see where they go, of course. PaulH. ----- Original Message ----- ... It is located in the engine compartment on the passenger side(left hand drive) on the firewall. It is about 5-inches below the windshield washer reservoir(and heater fan motor), has one red and two green wires attached and is about 2 1/2 inches wide. _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html Mgs@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgs http://www.team.net/archive From mgs-bounces@autox.team.net Tue Feb 10 08:14:02 2009 From: "Paul Hunt" To: "Councill, David" , "oliver" Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2009 14:52:37 -0000 Subject: Re: [Mgs] water pump By coincidence I came back from holiday to find this as well as the latest MGOC mag. "So what?" you may ask. In it there is an ad for electric cooling fans for MGBs that didn't originally have them. There is one for 62 to 70 cars with long-nose pumps that fits in front of the rad, and another for 70 to 76 cars with short-nose pumps that fits behind the rad. But this doesn't match up with change points in either Clausager or the Parts Catalogue. There was a change of pump on late 18GB engines (interchangeable with earlier) which was used for the remainder of 18G engines, then a new pump for the 18V in Aug 71 which didn't change until Jan 74. But a friends 72 has a long-nose with a deep pulley and no fan spacer, whereas my 73 has a short-nose with shallow pulley and fan spacer. They are both 18V582s. As far as pulleys go the air pump and hence the need for a second groove arrived in 1968 of course, and according to the MGOC the long-nose was *earlier* than the short nose. PaulH. ----- Original Message ----- The pulley was a dual pulley for the air pump and alternator. Thus the shaft had to be extended to accommodate the larger pulley. Perhaps an inch or so. The change occurred around 1971 or 1972. -----Original Message----- qs - is the pulley shaft on the water pump for the earlier cars (pre smog) shorter? so the pulley sits closer to the block? _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html Mgs@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgs http://www.team.net/archive From mgs-bounces@autox.team.net Tue Feb 10 08:53:45 2009 From: To: Mgs@autox.team.net Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2009 10:53:07 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Mgs] engine paint What is the correct paint for a 1957 mga 1500 series motor? Where can I get it? Tom Gunderson _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html Mgs@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgs http://www.team.net/archive From mgs-bounces@autox.team.net Tue Feb 10 09:07:30 2009 From: "Howard Battan" To: , Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2009 08:07:06 -0800 Subject: Re: [Mgs] engine paint I got mine from Moss Motors. It's a red-maroon color. Howard Battan ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Tuesday, February 10, 2009 7:53 AM Subject: [Mgs] engine paint > What is the correct paint for a 1957 mga 1500 series motor? Where can I > get it? > Tom Gunderson > _______________________________________________ _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html Mgs@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgs http://www.team.net/archive From mgs-bounces@autox.team.net Tue Feb 10 09:28:14 2009 From: Adrian Jones To: mgs@autox.team.net Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2009 11:27:05 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [Mgs] Setting the Toe-in Hi folks, I used the thumb tack/tape measure method recently on my Midget. Seemed to work out OK. http://tinyurl.com/b3ja8y Cheers, Adrian _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html Mgs@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgs http://www.team.net/archive From mgs-bounces@autox.team.net Tue Feb 10 13:16:57 2009 From: Tom Buchanan To: MG Mailing List Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2009 12:16:17 -0800 Subject: [Mgs] Engine ID I have an MGB engine 18GB-U-H-6345. Can anyone tell me what year car it came from? Tom _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html Mgs@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgs http://www.team.net/archive From mgs-bounces@autox.team.net Tue Feb 10 14:35:23 2009 From: "Eric Markley" To: "Tom Buchanan" , "MG Mailing List" Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2009 16:34:56 -0500 Subject: Re: [Mgs] Engine ID Hello Tom, THe GB series was used in the 1965 to 1967 model years. Given the low engine number, I would guess yours came from a 1965. Eric in Florida -----Original Message----- From: mgs-bounces@autox.team.net [mailto:mgs-bounces@autox.team.net]On Behalf Of Tom Buchanan Sent: Tuesday, February 10, 2009 3:16 PM To: MG Mailing List Subject: [Mgs] Engine ID I have an MGB engine 18GB-U-H-6345. Can anyone tell me what year car it came from? Tom You are subscribed as ericemarkley@bellsouth.net Mgs@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgs http://www.team.net/archive No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.0.233 / Virus Database: 270.10.19/1942 - Release Date: 02/09/09 17:40:00 _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html Mgs@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgs http://www.team.net/archive From mgs-bounces@autox.team.net Tue Feb 10 14:41:05 2009 From: Phil Bates To: MG Mailing List , Tom Buchanan Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2009 15:55:38 -0700 Subject: Re: [Mgs] Engine ID Sure - it came from an MGB. Year between 1965 and 1968, it's on a manual trans (not auto or overdrive, and is high compression. The number 6345 is a low number, it's probably a 1965. The GB block is a 5 main bearing block. If it were an 18G or 18GA it would be a 3 main bearing block. Phil Bates On Tue Feb 10 13:16 , Tom Buchanan sent: I have an MGB engine 18GB-U-H-6345. Can anyone tell me what year car it came from? Tom _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html You are subscribed as jello@cableo ne.net Mgs@autox.te am.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgs http://www.team.net/archive _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html Mgs@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgs http://www.team.net/archive From mgs-bounces@autox.team.net Tue Feb 10 16:09:38 2009 From: Max Heim To: MG List Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2009 14:59:46 -0800 Subject: Re: [Mgs] Engine ID Counting backwards from my 1966, it should be chassis #53890 or thereabouts. -- Max Heim '66 MGB GHN3L76149 If you're near Mountain View, CA, it's the primer red one with chrome wires on 2/10/09 2:55 PM, Phil Bates at jello@cableone.net wrote: > Sure - it came from an MGB. Year between 1965 and 1968, it's on a > manual trans (not auto or overdrive, and is high compression. The > number 6345 is a low number, it's probably a 1965. The GB block is a > 5 main bearing block. If it were an 18G or 18GA it would be a 3 main > bearing block. > > Phil Bates > On Tue Feb 10 13:16 , Tom Buchanan sent: > > I have an MGB engine 18GB-U-H-6345. Can anyone tell me what year > car it > came from? > Tom _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html Mgs@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgs http://www.team.net/archive From mgs-bounces@autox.team.net Tue Feb 10 18:09:56 2009 From: INTOCARS@aol.com To: mgs@autox.team.net Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2009 20:08:42 EST Subject: [Mgs] Answer to "What part is this?" Thanks to all for your help in identifying the part on my MGB-GT. Following your directions I believe that this part is an electrical control of an after market Air Conditioner. Thanks **************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy steps! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1218550342x1201216770/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072%26hmpgID=62%26bcd=fe bemailfooterNO62) _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html Mgs@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgs http://www.team.net/archive From mgs-bounces@autox.team.net Wed Feb 11 02:13:20 2009 From: "Paul Hunt" To: "MG Mailing List" , "Tom Buchanan" Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2009 08:47:46 -0000 Subject: Re: [Mgs] Engine ID According to Clausager it dates to between Oct 64 (serial number 101) and April 65 (serial number 14217) so about mid-way between those two dates. PaulH. ----- Original Message ----- I have an MGB engine 18GB-U-H-6345. Can anyone tell me what year car it came from? _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html Mgs@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgs http://www.team.net/archive From mgs-bounces@autox.team.net Wed Feb 11 09:38:00 2009 From: Paul Osborne To: INTOCARS@aol.com Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2009 11:37:25 -0500 Subject: Re: [Mgs] What is this part? I'm not too sure what is but if you could get a picture of it and its location would help. You could just disconnect it and see what does not work. paul >I have a 1969 MGB-GT that I am getting back into running condition. There >is an electrical part that I cannot identify and I need some help. It is >located in the engine compartment on the passenger side(left hand >drive) on the >firewall. It is about 5-inches below the windshield washer reservoir(and >heater fan motor), has one red and two green wires attached and is >about 2 1/2 >inches wide. It might be a voltage stabilizer ? >Can you help? >Bob Dallas >**************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy >steps! >(http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1218550342x1201216770/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072%26hmpgID=62%26bcd=fe >bemailfooterNO62) >_______________________________________________ >Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > >You are subscribed as paul@ece.rochester.edu > > >Mgs@autox.team.net >http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgs > >http://www.team.net/archive -- Paul Osborne University of Rochester Engineering & Technical Services Department of Electrical and Computer Engineering 201 Hopeman Bldg River Campus Rochester, New York 14627 585-275-5226 paul@ece.rochester.edu _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html Mgs@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgs http://www.team.net/archive From mgs-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Feb 12 12:14:12 2009 From: "Hans Duinhoven" To: "Ed's Shop" , "Jensen-Cars@British-Steel. Org" Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2009 20:00:12 +0100 Subject: Re: [Mgs] FW: [9issa] FW: Watch this child genius! Dear list, Not a hoax I assume, but got the message, that tinurl site is being misused by phising criminals, so beware... Cheers, Hans 71BGT ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ed's Shop" To: "Jensen-Cars@British-Steel. Org" ; "Mgs@Autox.Team.Net" ; "MG T list" Sent: Thursday, February 12, 2009 9:38 AM Subject: [Mgs] FW: [9issa] FW: Watch this child genius! > > Thought you folks might enjoy this which one of my > "Joke" Listers sent. > http://tinyurl.com/bgoq5z > > OR > > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LkPNoW7_0bkhttp://www.yo > utube.com/watch?v=LkPNoW7_0bk > > This kid is UN-real !!!!! > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > > You are subscribed as h.duinhoven@planet.nl > > > Mgs@autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgs > > http://www.team.net/archive _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html Mgs@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgs http://www.team.net/archive From mgs-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Feb 13 12:22:01 2009 From: jevans@mydb3.com To: mgs@autox.team.net, mg-t@autox.team.net, healeys@autox.team.net, Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2009 13:33:27 -0600 (CST) Subject: [Mgs] 13th Annual All Brirish Car Swap Meet & Autojumble The 13th annual All British Car Swap Meet & Autojumble will be held on February 22, 2009 at the DuPage County Fairgrounds in Wheaton, Illinois. This is an indoor event with approximately 100 vendor spaces in two buildings. Hours are 8 AM to 3 PM with a $5 admission fee and free parking. The suburban location is about 25 miles due west of Chicago, with easy access from the Chicago area Interstate road system. Hosted by the Chicagoland MG Club, this event has the enthusiastic support of all the major British Car clubs in the Chicago area; most of these clubs have taken spaces for club use and have promoted the event to their members resulting in a strong turnout of vendors and buyers of parts and accessories for all types of British cars. Publicity has included a direct mailing to over 1,000 Chicago/midwest area owners of British cars, as well as advertising in major metropolitan newspapers in Chicago, Indianapolis, St Louis, Peoria, Quad Cities, Rockford and Milwaukee. This event has been advertised in Auto Restorer, Skinned Knuckles, Old Cars Weekly and other enthusiast publications as well as through postings on enthusiast internet sites; it now attracts the participation of British Car enthusiasts from throughout the midwest with shoppers coming from all surrounding states. A list of local hotels is available upon request. Vendors already booked in include such well known suppliers to the British Car hobby as: Triple-C, Little British Car Company, TSI, University Motors, Riverside Motors, author Burt Levy and more. Any viewer of this message who has access to other club email lists is encouraged to send it on. Any questions - email me off list or call me at 630-858-8192 or see the website at http://www.britishcarswap.info Mapquest to 2015 West Manchester Road, Wheaton, Illinois 60187. Hope to see your there! FOR THE CHICAGOLAND MG CLUB Jim Evans _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html Mgs@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgs http://www.team.net/archive From mgs-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Feb 13 21:20:33 2009 From: "Ed's Shop" To: Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2009 22:20:27 -0600 Subject: Re: [Mgs] engine paint <> Tom, did you get my private reply?? Ed Please visit my site at: www.justbrits.com _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html Mgs@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgs http://www.team.net/archive From mgs-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Feb 13 21:59:48 2009 From: oliver To: Mgs@autox.team.net Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2009 20:59:23 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Mgs] clutch slave cylinder question hello, all. a little background: two or three years ago we swapped out a good tranny for an OD unit. at that time we also replaced the clutch, tob, and pilot bearing. at some point in the past i also replaced the slave unit, probably the hose, and switched to DOT 5. the OD unit was purportedly OK, but had issues. so we did the swap again last week, and the clutch didn't seem to be working. the car is still on jacks, and not running due to another issue which i hope to solve saturday. i thought i had an ez bleed, so i removed the bleeder screw from the slave unit. whoops. i had to put it back, after all the fluid drained out. so my wife helped me bleed it, and i got some good air spurts. then all i got was fluid, so we quit. she would pump it 5 or 6 times, then i would open and close. from underneath i see the rubber on the end of the slave unit expanding when she pumps, but i don't see the arm move. is that normal? do i need to unbolt the slave unit so the bleed screw faces up? am i missing something? did i lose the slave unit somehow during the swap (it remained on the car tied off)? or ???? thanks! _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html Mgs@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgs http://www.team.net/archive From mgs-bounces@autox.team.net Sat Feb 14 06:01:38 2009 From: "Paul Hunt" To: , Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2009 12:51:26 -0000 Subject: Re: [Mgs] clutch slave cylinder question Firstly new slave cylinders come with the bleed nipple in the wrong place. The hose should be screwed into the port that faces forwards and the bleed nipple in the one that faces across the car and is at the top. This and the drillings in the slave casting mean that any air in the *cylinder* will be expelled from the bleed nipple as expected. However the long vertical run of large bore pipe from the master to the slave, together with the loop in the pipe that is above the master, means that it isn't easy to bleed the *pipe* from the top down even with a continuous flow system like the EeziBleed, and more difficult again if you try to do it with the pedal. If you have any air left in the system at all it will compress of course so you won't get as much movement of the slave piston as you should for the full travel of the pedal. You should be getting about 1/2". The design of the hydraulic system is such that the first pump or two of the pedal will take up all mechanical play at the clutch end, after that *any* movement of the slave push-rod should move the clutch release arm, albeit not enough if there is air in the system. Some say wear in the slave clevis pin causes insufficient clutch travel, it doesn't, that happens when the one at the *pedal* is worn and the push-rod and pedal it connects, as I say the design of the hydraulic system takes account of any and all mechanical wear at the slave end. Reverse bleeding is best, this can either be done with the EeziBleed jury-rigged to the slave nipple and using very low air pressure, but is actually easier if you connect the slave and right caliper nipples with a length of tubing (they are the same size), open both, then you can use the brake pedal gently and slowly to reverse bleed the clutch. This transfers fluid from the brake master to the clutch, so you may need to drain some out of the clutch to start with to make room, and make sure you don't bleed so much that it lowers the level in the brake master too much. Literally 3 or 4 strokes should be all that is required, then you can top off both masters as required. There is another method often mentioned which involves pushing the slave piston all the way into the cylinder using the end of the clutch arm, which can indeed move enough fluid from the cylinder to displace any air gathered in the loop of pipe up by the master into the master and out of harms way. But you need to be careful releasing the clutch arm, there is a spring inside the cylinder that will push the piston out again, and this can draw air past the hydraulic seal in the slave cylinder so you are back where you started. If you do push the piston in with the clutch arm, then hold it there while someone operates the *pedal* to push it back out again. PaulH. ----- Original Message ----- from underneath i see the rubber on the end of the slave unit expanding when she pumps, but i don't see the arm move. is that normal? _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html Mgs@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgs http://www.team.net/archive From mgs-bounces@autox.team.net Sat Feb 14 10:52:01 2009 From: The Roxter To: sumton@sbcglobal.net Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2009 11:51:15 -0600 Subject: Re: [Mgs] clutch slave cylinder question oliver wrote: > hello, all. > > a little background: two or three years ago we swapped out a good tranny for > an OD unit. at that time we also replaced the clutch, tob, and pilot > bearing. at some point in the past i also replaced the slave unit, probably > the hose, and switched to DOT 5. the OD unit was purportedly OK, but had > issues. so we did the swap again last week, and the clutch didn't seem to be > working. the car is still on jacks, and not running due to another issue > which i hope to solve saturday. > > i thought i had an ez bleed, so i removed the bleeder screw from the slave > unit. whoops. i had to put it back, after all the fluid drained out. so my > wife helped me bleed it, and i got some good air spurts. then all i got was > fluid, so we quit. she would pump it 5 or 6 times, then i would open and > close. > > from underneath i see the rubber on the end of the slave unit expanding when > she pumps, but i don't see the arm move. is that normal? > > do i need to unbolt the slave unit so the bleed screw faces up? am i missing > something? did i lose the slave unit somehow during the swap (it remained on > the car tied off)? or ???? One thing I noticed is that you appear to be using the bleed method used for older US cars, pump up, then release the screw, then re-tighten. Frankly, I have never been successful using this method on LBC's. I place a clear plastic tubing on the bleed screw, with the other end in 1/2" of fluid in a bottle. Loosen the bleeder screw, then slowly and evenly pump the pedal around five or six times, then close the screw, top up the master and repeat until no bubbles come down the tube. Personally, I also go under the car and tap on the lines and cylinders with a small wrench or hammer (to free up any trapped bubbles) and then bleed again. -The Roxter -- _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html Mgs@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgs http://www.team.net/archive From mgs-bounces@autox.team.net Sun Feb 15 11:33:20 2009 From: Tom Buchanan To: MG Mailing List Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2009 10:06:04 -0800 Subject: [Mgs] Engine ID again First off, thanks to Eric, Phil, Max and Paul for identifying my spare engine. Now, the engine that is in my 1974 (chrome bumper) GT does not have the engine number tag on it. Some previous owner removed it. And I do not know if it is the original engine. Can anyone give me clues to look for so I can identify this engine. At one time it did have an air pump. The Timing Chain and Sprocket are single row. Thanks again, Tom _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html Mgs@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgs http://www.team.net/archive From mgs-bounces@autox.team.net Sun Feb 15 14:03:55 2009 From: "Eric Markley" To: "Tom Buchanan" , "MG Mailing List" Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2009 15:39:48 -0500 Subject: Re: [Mgs] Engine ID again Hi Tom, This will be more difficult. IF the carbs and distributor are the original units for the engine, the ID numbers on these components can give you a close idea of the engine series you have. If they are not original components, then you will have a tough time. The series number cast into the top of the cylinder head will give you a clue, if it is the original head for the block. The model and series number should be stamped on the side of the distributor. SUs should have a small metal tag attached to one of the screws that attach the air chamber to the carb body. Try to find these and send them out. For example, the engine in my '74 is a 797AE from a '75, with '73 AUD 550 carbs and it had a 41369 28/71 Midget distributor installed when I bought it. I believe that there are casting dates on the heads; don't know about the blocks. Eric -----Original Message----- From: mgs-bounces@autox.team.net [mailto:mgs-bounces@autox.team.net]On Behalf Of Tom Buchanan Sent: Sunday, February 15, 2009 1:06 PM To: MG Mailing List Subject: [Mgs] Engine ID again First off, thanks to Eric, Phil, Max and Paul for identifying my spare engine. Now, the engine that is in my 1974 (chrome bumper) GT does not have the engine number tag on it. Some previous owner removed it. And I do not know if it is the original engine. Can anyone give me clues to look for so I can identify this engine. At one time it did have an air pump. The Timing Chain and Sprocket are single row. Thanks again, Tom You are subscribed as ericemarkley@bellsouth.net Mgs@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgs http://www.team.net/archive No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.10.23/1953 - Release Date: 02/14/09 18:01:00 _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html Mgs@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgs http://www.team.net/archive From mgs-bounces@autox.team.net Sun Feb 15 21:04:22 2009 From: "Robert J. Guinness" To: MG List Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2009 22:03:53 -0600 Subject: [Mgs] MGA Rear Axle Hub Nut I am replacing the oil seals on my MGA 1600's rear axle hubs for the first time. I was able to take the hub nut off from the right (passenger side) with only the normal difficulties. However, the left (driver) side nut was larger than the right side. The right was the normal 1 61/64, but the left was 50mm (a hair's breath under 2"). The socket I used for the right won't fit the left side at all. What is going on? I must report that I have run into a number of interesting DPO kludges on this car (my latest favorite is turning the bumper guards upside down to hide rust and pitting of the chrome). There couldn't be a different set-up on the left side axle-- or could there? I know that the nuts are different threads, but are they also different outside dimensions as well? Or did the DPO pick up a different nut. The left side is VERY leaky by the way. Any insight would be appreciated. -- Robert Guinness 1961 MGA 1600 _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html Mgs@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgs http://www.team.net/archive From mgs-bounces@autox.team.net Mon Feb 16 06:32:07 2009 From: Dan DiBiase To: Tom Buchanan , MG Mailing List Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2009 05:31:07 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: [Mgs] Engine ID again ________________________________ From: Tom Buchanan To: MG Mailing List Sent: Sunday, February 15, 2009 1:06:04 PM Subject: [Mgs] Engine ID again First off, thanks to Eric, Phil, Max and Paul for identifying my spare engine. Now, the engine that is in my 1974 (chrome bumper) GT does not have the engine number tag on it. Some previous owner removed it. And I do not know if it is the original engine. Can anyone give me clues to look for so I can identify this engine. At one time it did have an air pump. The Timing Chain and Sprocket are single row. ----------------------------------------------------------- Tom, I know the early engines had a 'clock' cast into the side of the block, behind the RH-side engine mount and below where the oil filter would hang - http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c30/ddibiase/MG/GBeng1.jpg I'm not sure when they stopped doing this. For translation, see - http://www.mgexperience.net/phorum/read.php?1,157253 Look at the post by Kim de Bourbon. Dan D Central NJ USA '76 MGB Tourer '65 MGB Tourer (Project) NAMGBR #5-2328 http://dans65b.blogspot.com/ http://dans76b.blogspot.com/ http://dansautoblog.blogspot.com/ http://mywebpages.comcast.net/dibiase/Working_MG_Gallery.html http://dans-life-blog.blogspot.com/ _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html Mgs@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgs http://www.team.net/archive From mgs-bounces@autox.team.net Wed Feb 18 19:23:05 2009 From: jevans@mydb3.com To: mgs@autox.team.net, mg-t@autox.team.net, healeys@autox.team.net, Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2009 20:36:10 -0600 (CST) Subject: [Mgs] 13th Annual All Brirish Car Swap Meet & Autojumble A quick follow up to earlier messages...looks like we will open the doors Sunday morning February 22 to an almost sold out house with nearly 100 vendor spaces...anyone planning to just show up & hope for a spot should call me for a rundown on the situation...doors open at 8 AM & it's best to come in the AM if you can...as usual, there will be a number of cars for sale in the parking lot...make sure you enter the correct building as the Toy & Model Car show will be running the same day on the premises in a separate building so look for the two buildings with British flags out front...vendor selection is outstanding - parts, clubs, restoration shops & supplies, tools, regalia & more...hope all you listers in the midwest can join us...anyone posting to other lists is encouraged to forward this...Chicago has had a rough winter but at this time there is no snow or ice on any public thoroughfares, all roads good and the forecast is sunny, clear and low-30's...swap meet location is at the DuPage County Fairgrounds in Wheaton IL...one day only from 8 AM to 3 PM. Any questions - email me off list or call me at 630-858-8192 or see the website at http://www.britishcarswap.info Mapquest to 2015 West Manchester Road, Wheaton Illinois 60187 Hope to see you there! FOR THE CHICAGOLAND MG CLUB Jim Evans _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html Mgs@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgs http://www.team.net/archive From mgs-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Feb 19 17:32:28 2009 From: oliver To: Mgs@autox.team.net Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2009 16:31:31 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Mgs] clutch slave cylinder hi. after having brake fluid come out of the dust seal of the slave cylinder, i ordered new seals. i had hoped it would come with instructions. it didn't. never done this before - just take it apart, replace the seal(s) i find, and put it back together???? thanks. _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html Mgs@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgs http://www.team.net/archive From mgs-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Feb 19 19:38:44 2009 From: "oliver" To: Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2009 20:38:12 -0600 Subject: [Mgs] clutch saga continues vehicle: 73 b roadster issue: had an OD tranny in it that was iffy. had the original, good tranny, so i figured for now i'd swap them, and once my kids were out of college i could have it rebuilt. swapped it, no clutch. tried to bleed the clutch; fluid came pouring out of the dust cover (this is an aftermarket one, not the original type). took it out, took it apart, and the seal had turned sideways so fluid was going past it. put it back in correctly, reinstalled it, bled it, same problem. put a brand new one in; same problem. bled it and it was getting good pedal and then boom - fluid pours out of the dust seal. so, i'm thinking the clutch part of the original tranny that sat around, for sevaral months in the car port until it got put in the attic, is stuck. what happens if i hit it with a hand sledge? maybe use a block of wood to absorb some of the impace and prevent my breaking it? should i use a pry bar? "it" being the piece that sticks out of the tranny. or do i have to remove the whole darn thing again? thoughts? _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html Mgs@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgs http://www.team.net/archive From mgs-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Feb 20 03:47:28 2009 From: "Paul Hunt" To: "oliver" , Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2009 10:22:07 -0000 Subject: Re: [Mgs] clutch saga continues The clutch slave should have a spring in the cylinder first, with a plastic disc on the end, facing outwards. The seal goes next with the flat side facing out and the recessed side against the plastic disc on the spring. Then the piston with the flat face against the flat face of the inner seal, and the side with the conical depression facing outwards. Then the rubber boot goes on. The push-rod pivoting on a clevis pin in the end of the release arm goes through the boot and into the conical depression of the piston, which locates it. With all the correct parts in the correct place with correct orientation there is no way the seal can tilt. It can still leak if the seal is bad or the cylinder has been reamed out too far. You say you had a 'good pedal' before fluid poured out again, do you mean the release arm that sticks out of the bell housing was moving as it should? If so then there is nothing wrong with the clutch itself, you simply have a bad slave. You say you 'put a new one in', do you mean a new seal or a new slave cylinder? In either case there is still something wrong with the slave, you don't blow the seals when you stand on the brake pedal and you shouldn't blow them on the clutch either even if the release arm *isn't* moving as it should. I definitely wouldn't belt the release arm with a sledge-hammer, but you can certainly use a pry-bar or whatever to get some leverage on it to check it *does* move. Incidentally the outer end i.e. the push-rod and clevis pin only moves about 1/2" in normal use, don't try and force it any more than that. PaulH. ----- Original Message ----- swapped it, no clutch. tried to bleed the clutch; fluid came pouring out of the dust cover (this is an aftermarket one, not the original type). took it out, took it apart, and the seal had turned sideways so fluid was going past it. put it back in correctly, reinstalled it, bled it, same problem. put a brand new one in; same problem. bled it and it was getting good pedal and then boom - fluid pours out of the dust seal. _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html Mgs@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgs http://www.team.net/archive From mgs-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Feb 20 08:34:16 2009 From: Bob Howard To: sumton@sbcglobal.net Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2009 10:27:05 -0500 Subject: Re: [Mgs] clutch saga continues Oliver, Clutches usually stick in the engaged position if the vehicle is not driven for an extended period. Some owners push and hold the clutch pedal down with a stick during winter storage. When that happens, though, your foot pressure does not disengage the clutch. The pedal doesn't go down. It should not go down unless the clutch lever is moving. The lever moves only 1/2 inch or so. Clutch hydraulics are quite similar to brake hydraulics, and the cups do not blow out when brakes are forced on in a panic stop. If the clutch lever is not moving, the cup should not blow off the piston, as this is similar situation to fully-applied brakes in which the shoes and the disc pads cannot move beyond a certain point. You wrote that there were no directions in the cylinder rebuild kit. If you have the Bentley workshop manual, the illustration you need is on p.144, fig E6. Starting at the hose connection: spring, cup filler, piston cup, piston, boot clip, rubber boot, large boot clip. The hollow of the piston cup fits on the spring; the hollow of the cup fits over the piston cup and faces the hose. Think of it as the movement of the fluid from the master cylinder should push and expand the cup under pressure. I am wondering if the piston cup (filler cup) is missing. I don't think that striking with hammer will do anything good. The hammer strikes the lever, which pivots on the pin, then pushes the carbon throwout bearing which pushes the clutch. Lots of ways to dissipate energy and to break something. You may have a frozen/stuck clutch, but that is separate from the hydraulic issue. Bob On Thu, 19 Feb 2009 20:38:12 -0600 "oliver" writes:> swapped it, no clutch. tried to bleed the clutch; fluid came > pouring out of > the dust cover (this is an aftermarket one, not the original type). > took it > out, took it apart, and the seal had turned sideways so fluid was > going past > it. put it back in correctly, reinstalled it, bled it, same > problem. put a > brand new one in; same problem. bled it and it was getting good > pedal and > then boom - fluid pours out of the dust seal. > > so, i'm thinking the clutch part of the original tranny that sat > around, for > sevaral months in the car port until it got put in the attic, is > stuck. > > what happens if i hit it with a hand sledge? maybe use a block of > wood to > absorb some of the impace and prevent my breaking it? should i use > a pry > bar? "it" being the piece that sticks out of the tranny. or do i > have to > remove the whole darn thing again? > > thoughts? ____________________________________________________________ Fast Domain Registration. Click here http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/fc/BLSrjpTJNssquij6gkkH4wk2eND4U0SdARdl9lp4qWPMISNJT5qAjBJJQP2/ _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html Mgs@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgs http://www.team.net/archive From mgs-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Feb 20 09:22:29 2009 From: "Paul Hunt" To: , "Bob Howard" Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2009 16:14:23 -0000 Subject: Re: [Mgs] clutch saga continues Unless I've misunderstood this is not correct. Even when the friction plate has stuck to the flywheel or cover plate so that it doesn't disengage when the clutch pedal is operated, the clutch pedal itself operates normally i.e. it goes fully down and exhibits the normal back-pressure, and the release arm moves back and fore normally. Only if the clutch pedal and release arm operated normally, but the clutch didn't disengage i.e. you couldn't select any gears (grinding in reverse) would you contemplate freeing the friction plate. This is done by either towing the car along in gear repeatedly pumping and releasing the clutch pedal, or a bit more drastically by jacking the rear of the car up, running the engine in gear, with the clutch pedal fully down, i.e. rear wheels spinning, and dropping it off the jack, giving yourself plenty of run-off! But this is a situation completely different to that which Oliver has described, which is fluid bursting out of the slave cylinder. That can only be a problem with the slave cylinder, even though there have been two! PaulH. ----- Original Message ----- Clutches usually stick in the engaged position if the vehicle is not driven for an extended period. Some owners push and hold the clutch pedal down with a stick during winter storage. When that happens, though, your foot pressure does not disengage the clutch. The pedal doesn't go down. _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html Mgs@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgs http://www.team.net/archive From mgs-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Feb 20 09:49:42 2009 From: "oliver" To: Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2009 10:50:00 -0600 Subject: Re: [Mgs] clutch saga continues to clarify: the tranny sat outside of the car for several years. it was working fine when removed and replaced with an OD tranny, which has since gone south. all the typical clutch components were replaced when the OD tranny was put in. nothing was replaced when the old tranny was reinstalled. it looks like the tob is not moving. the buildup in pressure in the original and new slave cylinder is causing the hydraulic fluid to push the seal sideways and exit through the dust cover. so i have one vote that says pull the tranny and replace the tob. anyone think i have a chance to just run the engine with the car in gear (on jackstands with appropriate safety precautions) might get it working again? anyone else? ----- Original Message ----- From: Paul Hunt To: sumton@sbcglobal.net ; Bob Howard Cc: mgs@autox.team.net Sent: Friday, February 20, 2009 10:14 AM Subject: Re: [Mgs] clutch saga continues Unless I've misunderstood this is not correct. Even when the friction plate has stuck to the flywheel or cover plate so that it doesn't disengage when the clutch pedal is operated, the clutch pedal itself operates normally i.e. it goes fully down and exhibits the normal back-pressure, and the release arm moves back and fore normally. Only if the clutch pedal and release arm operated normally, but the clutch didn't disengage i.e. you couldn't select any gears (grinding in reverse) would you contemplate freeing the friction plate. This is done by either towing the car along in gear repeatedly pumping and releasing the clutch pedal, or a bit more drastically by jacking the rear of the car up, running the engine in gear, with the clutch pedal fully down, i.e. rear wheels spinning, and dropping it off the jack, giving yourself plenty of run-off! But this is a situation completely different to that which Oliver has described, which is fluid bursting out of the slave cylinder. That can only be a problem with the slave cylinder, even though there have been two! PaulH. ----- Original Message ----- Clutches usually stick in the engaged position if the vehicle is not driven for an extended period. Some owners push and hold the clutch pedal down with a stick during winter storage. When that happens, though, your foot pressure does not disengage the clutch. The pedal doesn't go down. _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html Mgs@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgs http://www.team.net/archive From mgs-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Feb 20 10:34:40 2009 From: "Paul Hunt" To: "oliver" , Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2009 17:34:11 -0000 Subject: Re: [Mgs] clutch saga continues I don't believe this is possible, without extreme pressure being applied to the clutch pedal, far more than one would apply to the brakes under emergency braking. At one point you said after replacing (I think) the slave cylinder you had 'normal' pedal pressure which I can only take to mean the pedal was also moving up and down normally. If this is the case then the TOB cannot be seized or otherwise jammed, which in any case is nothing to do with the friction plate being rusted to either the flywheel or cover plate. With the slave cylinder disconnected from the bell-housing, of even if it is still attached, normally you should be able to pull the release arm forwards and so push the slave piston further into its cylinder. When released the spring inside the cylinder should push the piston back out again, and so take up any free play in the release arm, which incidentally can suck air past the seal into the cylinder which will then need bleeding again. If you remove the cylinder from the bell housing you should be able to push the release arm back and fore freely. If you can't do this i.e. the release arm is stuck fast then your problem is indeed inside the bell housing, and so the clutch can't have been operating 'normally' at any time. There is another cause of fluid coming out of the slave boot and that is when the release bearing, arm or clutch are incorrectly installed which allows the release arm to pivot too far backwards which allows the piston to get pushed out of the end of the cylinder. Or possibly the push-rod is incorrect and way too short, or the slave is the wrong one and positioned too far forwards for the length of the push-rod, and so on. That is the only time the seal can get cocked in the bore. But again this isn't a stuck release arm, but one which pivots back and fore much more than it should, along with the TOB. PaulH. ----- Original Message ----- it looks like the tob is not moving. the buildup in pressure in the original and new slave cylinder is causing the hydraulic fluid to push the seal sideways and exit through the dust cover. _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html Mgs@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgs http://www.team.net/archive From mgs-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Feb 20 10:37:58 2009 From: Bob Howard To: sumton@sbcglobal.net Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2009 12:34:57 -0500 Subject: Re: [Mgs] clutch saga continues Oliver, Have you determined that the lever moves? Though it moves only 1/2 inch or so after the clearance is taken up, if it moves then it will push the TO bearing. When you installed the gearbox, you probably would have noticed if the graphite of the TO bearing had worn down too close to the metal Bob On Fri, 20 Feb 2009 10:50:00 -0600 "oliver" writes: > to clarify: > > the tranny sat outside of the car for several years. it was working > fine when > removed and replaced with an OD tranny, which has since gone south. > all the > typical clutch components were replaced when the OD tranny was put > in. > nothing was replaced when the old tranny was reinstalled. > > it looks like the tob is not moving. the buildup in pressure in the > original > and new slave cylinder is causing the hydraulic fluid to push the > seal > sideways and exit through the dust cover. ____________________________________________________________ Internet Advertising that Works. Click Now! http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/fc/BLSrjpTI2T6IvyzMq5vfWT5VZDry9EsdcPkEWarO68pzrHMf9ZYiJWyPgeU/ _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html Mgs@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgs http://www.team.net/archive From mgs-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Feb 20 10:38:08 2009 From: Bob Howard To: paul.hunt1@blueyonder.co.uk Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2009 12:28:07 -0500 Subject: Re: [Mgs] clutch saga continues Hi Paul, As in so many examples of things written poorly..... Let's try again. You're right--the pedal moves the fluid, the fluid moves slave cylinder, slave cylinder moves the lever, lever moves the throwout bearing, TO bearing separates the friction surfaces unless they are stuck together. I was imagining that the slave cylinder was trying to move the immoveable lever, which is not the situation, of course, if friction surfaces are stuck together. He may have two problems, if the clutch is indeed stuck, but I believe the problem at hand is that the cup in the slave cylinder is being displaced because it is not supported properly, or, possibly, is in backwards. By the way, I received a note from Stu Keen this morning. He told me that three of five inner tubes, age five years or less, had started to leak. Made in Taiwan, they appeared fine but had slow leaks. He replaced all the tubes with English tubes (did not tell manufacturer). Bob On Fri, 20 Feb 2009 16:14:23 -0000 "Paul Hunt" writes: Unless I've misunderstood this is not correct. Even when the friction plate has stuck to the flywheel or cover plate so that it doesn't disengage when the clutch pedal is operated, the clutch pedal itself operates normally i.e. it goes fully down and exhibits the normal back-pressure, and the release arm moves back and fore normally. Only if the clutch pedal and release arm operated normally, but the clutch didn't disengage i.e. you couldn't select any gears (grinding in reverse) would you contemplate freeing the friction plate. This is done by either towing the car along in gear repeatedly pumping and releasing the clutch pedal, or a bit more drastically by jacking the rear of the car up, running the engine in gear, with the clutch pedal fully down, i.e. rear wheels spinning, and dropping it off the jack, giving yourself plenty of run-off! But this is a situation completely different to that which Oliver has described, which is fluid bursting out of the slave cylinder. That can only be a problem with the slave cylinder, even though there have been two! PaulH. ----- Original Message ----- Clutches usually stick in the engaged position if the vehicle is not driven for an extended period. Some owners push and hold the clutch pedal down with a stick during winter storage. When that happens, though, your foot pressure does not disengage the clutch. The pedal doesn't go down. ____________________________________________________________ Become a religous scholar today. Click here for more information. http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/fc/BLSrjpTOlOv6ndjAOHduJ685SEf8aCRCsSzev9Fy2BW3C5TkQlt9V18tTJO/ _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html Mgs@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgs http://www.team.net/archive From mgs-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Feb 20 11:21:17 2009 From: "Ed's Shop" To: "Spridgets" , Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2009 12:21:15 -0600 Subject: Re: [Mgs] [Healeys] FW: Amazing technology THANKS to John Sims on the Healeys List!!!!! ***************************************** This is absolutely astonishing! The first part is a short commercial but watch the whole clip. You will be amazed - especially restorers who can not find a good part from the usual suspects. http://www.jaylenosgarage.com/video/video_player.shtml?vid=944641 Thanks to Don Hambrick for forwarding it to me. John Sims, BN6 Aberdeen, NJ ************************************************ _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html Mgs@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgs http://www.team.net/archive From mgs-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Feb 20 11:37:02 2009 From: "oliver" To: Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2009 12:37:25 -0600 Subject: Re: [Mgs] clutch saga continues or is it possible that the clutch fork is bent????? and that is allowing the seal to move to far out???? _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html Mgs@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgs http://www.team.net/archive From mgs-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Feb 20 12:19:26 2009 From: mark.jones@exxonmobil.com To: mgs@autox.team.net Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2009 14:18:29 -0500 Subject: Re: [Mgs] 19,000 mile original Bugeye for sale Siting on Michelin X tires don't add to it's value; just a accident waiting to happen. From: "Wm. Severin Thompson" Subject: [Mgs] 19,000 mile original Bugeye for sale To: "'Healey list Forum'" , , "'MG List'" , , "Team-Thicko@Autox.Team.Net" Message-ID: <013001c99384$689b1590$39d140b0$@com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: 19,000 mile original Bugeye for sale Car runs like a Swiss watch. Comes complete with original soft top and side curtains (with bag). Currently sits on Michelin X tires it last raced on in the early 60's. _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html Mgs@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgs http://www.team.net/archive From mgs-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Feb 20 12:33:57 2009 From: don@napanet.net To: mgs@autox.team.net Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2009 11:57:12 -0800 Subject: Re: [Mgs] 19,000 mile original Bugeye for sale Call me sacreligious, but that is an awful lot of money for an old Bugeye Sprite! I paid $300 for one in better shape, but that was a long, long time ago. Don Scott '62 MGA Mk II '73 MGB GT '91 Miata BRG 1962 TR4 (wanted) Quoting mark.jones@exxonmobil.com: > Siting on Michelin X tires don't add to it's value; just a accident waiting > to happen. > > From: "Wm. Severin Thompson" > Subject: [Mgs] 19,000 mile original Bugeye for sale > To: "'Healey list Forum'" , > , "'MG List'" > , > , "Team-Thicko@Autox.Team.Net" > > Message-ID: <013001c99384$689b1590$39d140b0$@com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > Subject: 19,000 mile original Bugeye for sale > > > Car runs like a Swiss watch. Comes complete with original soft top and side > curtains (with bag). Currently sits on Michelin X tires it last raced on in > the early 60's. > _______________________________________________ _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html Mgs@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgs http://www.team.net/archive From mgs-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Feb 20 12:35:36 2009 From: "oliver" To: "Bob Howard" Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2009 13:33:02 -0600 Subject: Re: [Mgs] clutch saga continues the lever moved maybe 1/4" or so when we were getting pressure, then nothing > Oliver, > Have you determined that the lever moves? Though it moves only 1/2 > inch or so after the clearance is taken up, if it moves then it will push > the TO bearing. > When you installed the gearbox, you probably would have noticed if the > graphite of the TO bearing had worn down too close to the metal > > Bob _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html Mgs@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgs http://www.team.net/archive From mgs-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Feb 20 14:23:46 2009 From: Bob Howard To: sumton@sbcglobal.net Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2009 16:18:37 -0500 Subject: Re: [Mgs] clutch saga continues Oliver, Is that 1/4" the distance the lever moved when the clutch piston was pushing on it? Could you determine the distance the clutch piston was moving? What I am getting at is that the piston should be able to push 1/2", which is all that the lever needs (after all slack motion is taken up) to push the TO bearing enough to separate the clutch. The hydraulics compensate for wear on the If the piston moved only 1/4" before leaking, the cylinder is the item at fault. If the piston moves the lever 1/2 or more and the clutch does not disengage, that's another problem.The levers are robust chunks of metal, though, and it does not seem likely that the lever would bend. There could be wear on its pivot and wear in the forks where the TO bearing fits, but you probably wiggled things and found them satisfactory before mating gearbox to the engine. It's the sort of thing one does, without even thinking about it, just wiggling things to see that they work and are not seized. Have you taken the cylinder apart since earlier today when you, Paul and I were writing about the arrangment of the spring & cups? Bob On Fri, 20 Feb 2009 13:33:02 -0600 "oliver" writes: > > the lever moved maybe 1/4" or so when we were getting pressure, then > nothing > > > > Oliver, > > Have you determined that the lever moves? Though it moves only > 1/2 > > inch or so after the clearance is taken up, if it moves then it > will push > > the TO bearing. > > When you installed the gearbox, you probably would have noticed > if the > > graphite of the TO bearing had worn down too close to the metal > > > > Bob > > > > ____________________________________________________________ It's never too old to date. Senior Dating. Click Here. http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/fc/BLSrjpTQbQYwDwL9qSKc4NN6NQsXgoxuaJiwg7QdMSfrBgiSjOuIMJVFbKg/ _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html Mgs@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgs http://www.team.net/archive From mgs-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Feb 20 15:38:03 2009 From: Barrie Robinson To: mgb-v8@autox.team.net,mgs@autox.team.net Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2009 17:23:38 -0500 Subject: [Mgs] Speedo glass Does anyone, like me, have plastic (yellowed) instead of glass on their speedo - and does anyone want, like me, real glass with a hole in it for the trip thingy? Regards Barrie Barrie Robinson (705) 721-9060 http://www.britishv8.org/MG/BarrieRobinson.htm http://www.britcot.com _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html Mgs@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgs http://www.team.net/archive From mgs-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Feb 20 15:51:57 2009 From: To: "'Team-Thicko@Autox.Team.Net'" , Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2009 17:51:29 -0500 Subject: Re: [Mgs] [Thicko] 19,000 mile original Bugeye for sale Thanks for the peter egan article. it was more about mr. eagan and eago than anything else. yes i know how to spell ego. mel frank 71mgbgt only 12000 miles shown//// ---- "Wm. Severin Thompson" wrote: > The Peter Egan article can be seen here. > > http://www.roadandtrack.com/article.asp?section_id=26&article_id=7246 > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: team-thicko-bounces@autox.team.net [mailto:team-thicko- > > bounces@autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Wm. Severin Thompson > > Sent: Friday, February 20, 2009 11:55 AM > > To: 'Healey list Forum'; Vintage-Race@Autox.Team.Net; 'MG List'; > > spridgets@autox.team.net; Team-Thicko@Autox.Team.Net > > Subject: [Thicko] 19,000 mile original Bugeye for sale > > > > Subject: 19,000 mile original Bugeye for sale > > > > > > > > For sale: 1958 Austin Healey Sprite (titled as a 1959) > > > > > > > > 19,000 original mile car, unrestored, in time capsule condition. A true > > "survivor car". certainly one of the finest examples of an unrestored > > Bugeye > > in the world. > > > > > > > > "Survivor cars" are rapidly growing in value, and the rarity of this > > car's > > condition attests to its "investment quality". > > > > > > > > This car won the Road & Track Reserve Award at the 2006 Brian Redman > > International Challenge Concours in Elkhart Lake, WI. > > > > > > > > This car was also featured in the January issue of Road & Track, in > > Peter > > Egan's "Side Glances" column. > > > > > > > > Details on its documented history, condition and pictures at > > http://www.thicko.com/Walter.htm > > > > > > > > Car runs like a Swiss watch. Comes complete with original soft top and > > side > > curtains (with bag). Currently sits on Michelin X tires it last raced > > on in > > the early 60's. > > > > > > > > It is very drivable, or showable as it sits. > > > > > > > > $22,000 or best offer. > > > > > > > > Wm. Severin Thompson > > > > Team Thicko > > > > wsthompson@thicko.com > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > > You are subscribed as melfrankus@carolina.rr.com > > > Mgs@autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgs > > http://www.team.net/archive _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html Mgs@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgs http://www.team.net/archive From mgs-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Feb 20 16:56:45 2009 From: "Chad Cooper" To: "'Barrie Robinson'" , , Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2009 17:55:52 -0600 Subject: Re: [Mgs] Speedo glass Yes to all of those questions... How much? Chad Cooper -----Original Message----- From: mgs-bounces@autox.team.net [mailto:mgs-bounces@autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Barrie Robinson Sent: Friday, February 20, 2009 4:24 PM To: mgb-v8@autox.team.net; mgs@autox.team.net Subject: [Mgs] Speedo glass Does anyone, like me, have plastic (yellowed) instead of glass on their speedo - and does anyone want, like me, real glass with a hole in it for the trip thingy? Regards Barrie Barrie Robinson (705) 721-9060 http://www.britishv8.org/MG/BarrieRobinson.htm http://www.britcot.com _______________________________________________ _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html Mgs@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgs http://www.team.net/archive From mgs-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Feb 20 17:39:49 2009 From: oliver To: Bob Howard Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2009 16:39:23 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: [Mgs] clutch saga continues I think you're points are well taken, and I appreciate your input. I question, however, whether a slave cylinder that was working fine fails and looks just fine when taken apart, and a brand new one also fails in the same situation the same way. these are the off brand slave cylinders, not the authentic ones btw. and, OK, I admit it, i never really looked at the gearbox or tob or anything else before i stuffed them together back in the car. after all it worked just fine when we removed it . . . . --- On Fri, 2/20/09, Bob Howard wrote: From: Bob Howard Subject: Re: [Mgs] clutch saga continues To: sumton@sbcglobal.net Cc: mgs@autox.team.net Date: Friday, February 20, 2009, 3:18 PM Oliver, Is that 1/4" the distance the lever moved when the clutch piston was pushing on it? Could you determine the distance the clutch piston was moving? What I am getting at is that the piston should be able to push 1/2", which is all that the lever needs (after all slack motion is taken up) to push the TO bearing enough to separate the clutch. The hydraulics compensate for wear on the If the piston moved only 1/4" before leaking, the cylinder is the item at fault. If the piston moves the lever 1/2 or more and the clutch does not disengage, that's another problem.The levers are robust chunks of metal, though, and it does not seem likely that the lever would bend. There could be wear on its pivot and wear in the forks where the TO bearing fits, but you probably wiggled things and found them satisfactory before mating gearbox to the engine. It's the sort of thing one does, without even thinking about it, just wiggling things to see that they work and are not seized. Have you taken the cylinder apart since earlier today when you, Paul and I were writing about the arrangment of the spring & cups? Bob On Fri, 20 Feb 2009 13:33:02 -0600 "oliver" writes: > > the lever moved maybe 1/4" or so when we were getting pressure, then > nothing > > > > Oliver, > > Have you determined that the lever moves? Though it moves only > 1/2 > > inch or so after the clearance is taken up, if it moves then it > will push > > the TO bearing. > > When you installed the gearbox, you probably would have noticed > if the > > graphite of the TO bearing had worn down too close to the metal > > > > Bob _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html Mgs@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgs http://www.team.net/archive From mgs-bounces@autox.team.net Sat Feb 21 02:40:22 2009 From: "Paul Hunt" To: "oliver" , Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2009 09:18:06 -0000 Subject: Re: [Mgs] clutch saga continues Well, yes, anything that results in the piston moving past the end of the cylinder. It shouldn't even reach the end, it's normal operating range is within the bottom inch or so of the cylinder. This can vary quite a bit as the system is designed to take up wear in the mechanical components at the clutch end and still give a consistent biting point. By far the biggest source of this wear is the carbon ring of the TOB, this is getting on for an inch thick and can wear all the way down inside the casting before it is u/s. Did you fit the spring-clips to the pegs on the TOB and fasten them round behind the ends of the release arm fork? If not then maybe the pegs have become detached from the fork which I'm guessing will give you a lot more movement of the release arm than there should be. PaulH. ----- Original Message ----- or is it possible that the clutch fork is bent????? and that is allowing the seal to move to far out???? _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html Mgs@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgs http://www.team.net/archive From mgs-bounces@autox.team.net Sat Feb 21 02:40:49 2009 From: "Paul Hunt" To: , , "Barrie Robinson" Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2009 09:24:38 -0000 Subject: Re: [Mgs] Speedo glass Sounds like a non-standard speedo to me, I thought all MGBs had trip reset winders coming from the case, not push-buttons sticking out the front. PaulH. ----- Original Message ----- Does anyone, like me, have plastic (yellowed) instead of glass on their speedo - and does anyone want, like me, real glass with a hole in it for the trip thingy? _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html Mgs@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgs http://www.team.net/archive From mgs-bounces@autox.team.net Sat Feb 21 02:41:10 2009 From: "Paul Hunt" To: "oliver" , "Bob Howard" Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2009 09:22:34 -0000 Subject: Re: [Mgs] clutch saga continues 1/4" implies air in the hydraulics (as well as nothing seized in the bell-housing), which isn't unusual, they are a pig to bleed from the top down even with a continual flow device like an EeziBleed. By far the eeziest (sic) way is to connect a tube between the clutch nipple and the right caliper nipple (they are the same size), open both, and use the brake pedal gently and slowly to reverse fill/bleed the slave. Remove some fluid from the clutch master before you start to avoid an overflow. You can completely fill a clutch system like this without lowering the brake master too much, but it is something to watch out for or you will have to bleed the brakes as well. PaulH. ----- Original Message ----- the lever moved maybe 1/4" or so when we were getting pressure, then nothing _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html Mgs@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgs http://www.team.net/archive From mgs-bounces@autox.team.net Sat Feb 21 03:10:41 2009 From: "Paul Hunt" To: , "Ed's Shop" Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2009 09:54:42 -0000 Subject: Re: [Mgs] [Healeys] FW: Amazing technology My dentist has a similar system to make implants, nothing new there. But to put an assembled steam engine into it and a working model comes out with all the parts moving? PaulH. ----- Original Message ----- This is absolutely astonishing! The first part is a short commercial but watch the whole clip. You will be amazed - especially restorers who can not find a good part from the usual suspects. http://www.jaylenosgarage.com/video/video_player.shtml?vid=944641 _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html Mgs@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgs http://www.team.net/archive From mgs-bounces@autox.team.net Sat Feb 21 06:41:40 2009 From: "Chad Cooper" To: "'Paul Hunt'" , Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2009 07:32:51 -0600 Subject: Re: [Mgs] Speedo glass The rubber bumper cars had a plastic face, with a hole as described.. It was standard. -----Original Message----- From: mgs-bounces@autox.team.net [mailto:mgs-bounces@autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Paul Hunt Sent: Saturday, February 21, 2009 3:25 AM To: mgb-v8@autox.team.net; mgs@autox.team.net; Barrie Robinson Subject: Re: [Mgs] Speedo glass Sounds like a non-standard speedo to me, I thought all MGBs had trip reset winders coming from the case, not push-buttons sticking out the front. PaulH. ----- Original Message ----- Does anyone, like me, have plastic (yellowed) instead of glass on their speedo - and does anyone want, like me, real glass with a hole in it for the trip thingy? You are subscribed as mgb72@airmail.net Mgs@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgs http://www.team.net/archive _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html Mgs@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgs http://www.team.net/archive From mgs-bounces@autox.team.net Sat Feb 21 06:56:43 2009 From: "Eric J Russell" To: Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2009 08:48:07 -0500 Subject: Re: [Mgs] Speedo glass ----- Original Message ----- > Does anyone, like me, have plastic (yellowed) instead of glass on > their speedo - and does anyone want, like me, real glass with a hole > in it for the trip thingy? > > Regards > Barrie Glass would be nice. But the acrylic lasted many years and would be easier to make. Or buy one: eBay item #380105358583 ----- Original Message ----- > Sounds like a non-standard speedo to me, I thought all MGBs had trip reset > winders coming from the case, not push-buttons sticking out the front. > > PaulH. RBB's have the trip odometer reset knob in the face of the gauge. http://i7.ebayimg.com/02/i/001/13/8e/4d3d_2.JPG (eBay item #230325663621) Eric J. Russell Mebane, NC http://home.mebtel.net/~ejrussell _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html Mgs@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgs http://www.team.net/archive From mgs-bounces@autox.team.net Sat Feb 21 09:03:30 2009 From: "Paul Hunt" To: "Chad Cooper" , Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2009 15:17:39 -0000 Subject: Re: [Mgs] Speedo glass Looks like a North American thing, then. ----- Original Message ----- The rubber bumper cars had a plastic face, with a hole as described.. It was standard. _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html Mgs@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgs http://www.team.net/archive From mgs-bounces@autox.team.net Sat Feb 21 11:41:27 2009 From: jevans@mydb3.com To: mgs@autox.team.net, mg-t@autox.team.net, healeys@autox.team.net, Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2009 12:35:23 -0600 (CST) Subject: [Mgs] 13th Annual All British Car Swap Meet & Autojumble Weather Update - Anyone planning to attend this event may have heard that the Chicago area received some snow last night...the Swap Meet grounds had about 3" which has already been plowed off at this writing...all major roads into this area are clear as are most local roads...forecasters say there may be some additional flurries this evening, but the storm has clearly passed this area...this snow will not have any impact on Swap Meet activities...tomorrow forecasted to be clear with temperature in the hi 20's to low 30's...call or email off-list if you have any questions. Hope to see you there! FOR THE CHICAGOLAND MG CLUB Jim Evans 630-858-8192 _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html Mgs@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgs http://www.team.net/archive From mgs-bounces@autox.team.net Sat Feb 21 12:21:21 2009 From: Barrie Robinson To: "Eric J Russell" , Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2009 13:36:38 -0500 Subject: Re: [Mgs] Speedo glass The acrylic one would be easier to make but it certainly does not last as long (mine is yellow - but other glass ones are fine). It also scratches more easily but then one does not give it such wear unless you are a clean freak. At 08:48 AM 2/21/2009, Eric J Russell wrote: >----- Original Message ----- >>Does anyone, like me, have plastic (yellowed) instead of glass on >>their speedo - and does anyone want, like me, real glass with a hole >>in it for the trip thingy? >> >>Regards >>Barrie > >Glass would be nice. But the acrylic lasted many years and would be >easier to make. > >Or buy one: eBay item #380105358583 > > >----- Original Message ----- >>Sounds like a non-standard speedo to me, I thought all MGBs had trip reset >>winders coming from the case, not push-buttons sticking out the front. >> >>PaulH. > > >RBB's have the trip odometer reset knob in the face of the gauge. >http://i7.ebayimg.com/02/i/001/13/8e/4d3d_2.JPG (eBay item #230325663621) > >Eric J. Russell >Mebane, NC >http://home.mebtel.net/~ejrussell >_______________________________________________ >Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > >You are subscribed as barrie@look.ca > > >Mgs@autox.team.net >http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgs > >http://www.team.net/archive Regards Barrie Barrie Robinson (705) 721-9060 http://www.britishv8.org/MG/BarrieRobinson.htm http://www.britcot.com _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html Mgs@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgs http://www.team.net/archive From mgs-bounces@autox.team.net Sat Feb 21 12:22:58 2009 From: Barrie Robinson To: "Paul Hunt" , "Chad Cooper" Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2009 13:39:26 -0500 Subject: Re: [Mgs] Speedo glass Now that's interesting! Why would they bother with two types of speedos - Maybe the through the acrylic one was more expensive ???? At 10:17 AM 2/21/2009, Paul Hunt wrote: >Looks like a North American thing, then. > ----- Original Message ----- > > > The rubber bumper cars had a plastic face, with a hole as described.. It >was > standard. >_______________________________________________ >Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > >You are subscribed as barrie@look.ca > > >Mgs@autox.team.net >http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgs > >http://www.team.net/archive Regards Barrie Barrie Robinson (705) 721-9060 http://www.britishv8.org/MG/BarrieRobinson.htm http://www.britcot.com _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html Mgs@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgs http://www.team.net/archive From mgs-bounces@autox.team.net Sat Feb 21 14:30:41 2009 From: Simon Matthews To: rfeibusch1@earthlink.net Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2009 12:56:57 -0800 Subject: Re: [Mgs] Large Stash of NOS Lucas Parts Could they find a more difficult way to list the items that they have? On Sat, Feb 21, 2009 at 10:45 AM, wrote: > FYI, > > Best, > > Rick Feibusch > Venice, CA > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > From: Michael Balch in Des Moins > > This is a website for a company that recently purchased a 2 story > warehose full of NOS auto parts. Appears to be mostly vintage Lucas > from the 1950s to the 1980s. You can go on the website and see > pictures of what they have inventoried so far. If you want something, > you send you them an e-mail and they will list it on EBAY. Some of > the parts are already listed on EBAY. > > You may want to pass this on to the British car clubs/folks you know. > > http://maxwell-thomas.com/default.aspx _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html Mgs@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgs http://www.team.net/archive From mgs-bounces@autox.team.net Sat Feb 21 14:57:22 2009 From: Tom Buchanan To: MG Mailing List Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2009 16:08:45 -0800 Subject: [Mgs] Unleaded fuel and Cylinder Head I know this has come up many times but not when I'm doing my heads. The '65 head goes to the machine shop next week. I need to know what parts to replace to allow me to safely burn unleaded fuel. Thanks, Tom _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html Mgs@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgs http://www.team.net/archive From mgs-bounces@autox.team.net Sat Feb 21 14:57:33 2009 From: To: "MG List" , Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2009 16:11:10 -0500 Subject: Re: [Mgs] Large Stash of NOS Lucas Parts Thanks for the great heads up. I actually looked at everything on their site, it took a while. How many more warehouses of stuff like this exist? Every now and then one of these opportunities arises and most of us stand and watch the parade pass us by. I would love to bid on many of the items but fear that by having them listed on ebay for me to bid on would only attract numerous bidders and the cost will end up exceeding the value of the item. The exceptions are the items that are NLA which command greater prices. It appears everything they have is NOS. Alas... Frank "Swamp Yankee" Krajewski ----- Original Message ----- Subject: [Mgs] Large Stash of NOS Lucas Parts > FYI, > > Best, > > Rick Feibusch > Venice, CA > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > From: Michael Balch in Des Moins > > This is a website for a company that recently purchased a 2 story > warehose full of NOS auto parts. Appears to be mostly vintage Lucas > from the 1950s to the 1980s. You can go on the website and see > pictures of what they have inventoried so far. If you want something, > you send you them an e-mail and they will list it on EBAY. Some of > the parts are already listed on EBAY. > > You may want to pass this on to the British car clubs/folks you know. > > http://maxwell-thomas.com/default.aspx > > Mike _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html Mgs@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgs http://www.team.net/archive From mgs-bounces@autox.team.net Sat Feb 21 15:19:19 2009 From: Richard Gosling To: Barrie Robinson Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2009 21:55:22 +0000 Subject: Re: [Mgs] Speedo glass Barrie said "...Why would they bother with two types of speedos..." Probably related to the different dash styles on European market and US cars, coming from attempts to meet US crash standards that weren't required in Europe. The cost was all from the US side, the European cars retained the same gauges as fitted to Richard & Sammy ('73 Black Tulip BGT) _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html Mgs@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgs http://www.team.net/archive From mgs-bounces@autox.team.net Sat Feb 21 16:25:56 2009 From: Barney Gaylord To: Tom Buchanan , MG Mailing List Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2009 17:04:08 -0600 Subject: Re: [Mgs] Unleaded fuel and Cylinder Head At 04:08 PM 2/21/2009 -0800, Tom Buchanan wrote: >I know this has come up many times but not when I'm doing my heads. >The '65 head goes to the machine shop next week. I need to know what >parts to replace to allow me to safely burn unleaded fuel. >.... As a bare minimum, install hardened steel seats for the exhaust valves while it's in the machine shop. If you plan to drive it more than 50,000 miles in the next 10 years, or drive it hard like racing or regular trailer towing, then also consider Stellite exhaust valves and hard seats for the intake valves. I also like bronze valve guides for the longevity, particularly 100,000 miles or more. They are relatively cheap but require .0010" to .0015" additional stem clearance to accomodate more inward thermal expansion of the guide, so some machine shop might give you a hard time about using bronze guides (or might get it wrong). Umbrella type valve seals are optional. They could reduce oil consumption some. If you use iron guides, install unbrella seals on intake valves only, as iron exhaust guides need a little oil. For bronze guides you can use the best valve seals available, as bronze is self-lubricating and doesn't need the oil. $.03, Barney Gaylord 1958 MGA with an attitude (and 370,000 miles) http://MGAguru.com _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html Mgs@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgs http://www.team.net/archive From mgs-bounces@autox.team.net Sat Feb 21 19:05:13 2009 From: Bob Howard To: mgs@autox.team.net Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2009 21:03:06 -0500 Subject: [Mgs] MGB rear brakes At a tech session today, a member asked what would happen if one used GT rear cylinders on an open MGB. Opinions voiced were that there would be rear wheel lock up during hard braking, but nobody had personal experience. Has anyone tried the larger cylinders? What happened? Bob ____________________________________________________________ Click to learn about options trading and get the latest information. http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/fc/BLSrjpTIzQZRAdb1QjyhH1ZCvW0sPNyf6CD1xailmaLw09Yp4MGOfFDpGow/ _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html Mgs@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgs http://www.team.net/archive From mgs-bounces@autox.team.net Sat Feb 21 21:00:15 2009 From: Eric Erickson To: mgs@autox.team.net Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2009 14:29:16 +1030 Subject: Re: [Mgs] MGB rear brakes Bob Howard wrote: > At a tech session today, a member asked what would happen if one used > GT rear cylinders on an open MGB. > Opinions voiced were that there would be rear wheel lock up during > hard braking, but nobody had personal experience. > Has anyone tried the larger cylinders? What happened? If this is all about getting the rears to brake harder then you have to make sure you keep things balanced - front to rear. When I increased the efficiency of the rear brakes (I did it by putting discs on the rear) it certainly did mean "rear wheel lock up during hard braking", and I suggest the same would happen no matter what you did to increase the braking power to the back end. And this was with 205*50 tyres. You need to consider the balance of the vehicle (suspension, ride height, etc etc). I installed adjustable brake bias to try to get things back into order, pain in the arse that it is to keep where I want it. You need to see what the balance is between front and back and try to maintain that at optimum (and therefore if you increase the efficiency of the rear brakes you would have to do the same to the fronts). Eric Adelaide, South Australia _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html Mgs@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgs http://www.team.net/archive From mgs-bounces@autox.team.net Sun Feb 22 08:22:54 2009 From: "Paul Hunt" To: , "Barrie Robinson" Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2009 15:06:54 -0000 Subject: Re: [Mgs] Speedo glass The dashes were completely different between North American spec and other cars, and most of the instruments and controls, from 67 onwards. I believe North American spec had underdash liners for some reason, something that UK spec never had. Would make the case-mounted twiddler tricky to reach! PaulH. ----- Original Message ----- Now that's interesting! Why would they bother with two types of speedos - Maybe the through the acrylic one was more expensive ???? _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html Mgs@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgs http://www.team.net/archive From mgs-bounces@autox.team.net Sun Feb 22 08:23:09 2009 From: "Paul Hunt" To: , "Bob Howard" Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2009 15:19:56 -0000 Subject: Re: [Mgs] MGB rear brakes That's the theory, which is why GTs have larger diameter with the greater weight. However V8s have the roadster variant as they have stiffer suspension which makes them more liable to lock over undulations. PaulH. ----- Original Message ----- At a tech session today, a member asked what would happen if one used GT rear cylinders on an open MGB. Opinions voiced were that there would be rear wheel lock up during hard braking, but nobody had personal experience. _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html Mgs@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgs http://www.team.net/archive From mgs-bounces@autox.team.net Sun Feb 22 08:27:21 2009 From: Aaron Whiteman To: MG Mailing List Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2009 07:26:51 -0800 Subject: Re: [Mgs] Speedo glass On Feb 22, 2009, at 7:06 AM, Paul Hunt wrote: > I believe North American spec had underdash liners for some reason, > something > that UK spec never had. Would make the case-mounted twiddler tricky > to > reach! I should note that the until they redid the dash in 1977, the twiddler was still in place, even in north america. My 75 has the twiddler on the end of a short extension, so it could be accessible even if I still had an under-dash liner. [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type application/pkcs7-signature which had a name of smime.p7s] _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html Mgs@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgs http://www.team.net/archive From mgs-bounces@autox.team.net Sun Feb 22 09:11:57 2009 From: "Robert J. Guinness" To: MG List Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2009 10:10:43 -0600 Subject: [Mgs] Renewing the MGA rear axle hub My latest trials and tribulations involve the repair of leaking rear axle hubs on my 1600 MGA. What is the wisdom of the list on the following issues: 1. Is the hub exterior painted? When cleaning up mine, there was just bare metal under the layers of gunk. If painted, I assume black is the correct color. 2. Do you pack the bearings with high temp. grease? One source said yes, but the manuals and the mgaguru site make no mention of this step. The manual says that the bearings are lubricated only by the hyphoid oil from the differential. 3. How do you fully seat the oil seal in the hub? I put silicone on the exterior surface and used the mgaguru site's suggestion of using a spray paint can as a press/driver, but there still seems to be a thin separation between the seal and the bottom (inboard side)of the hub oil seal seat. (The paint can finally crumpled) Is a slight separation OK? (One of the seals I bought was slightly larger than the other, I discarded the larger one because it just would not fit ;-) Thank you. -- Robert Guinness _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html Mgs@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgs http://www.team.net/archive From mgs-bounces@autox.team.net Sun Feb 22 09:52:58 2009 From: "Paul Hunt" To: "Robert J. Guinness" , "MG List" Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2009 16:27:49 -0000 Subject: Re: [Mgs] Renewing the MGA rear axle hub I can only speak for MGB but it's normal to pack the bearings with grease (specified in the Workshop Manual) even though they are going to be running in axle oil. For that reason the type of grease would seem to be less of an issue than for the front bearings. PaulH. ----- Original Message ----- 2. Do you pack the bearings with high temp. grease? One source said yes, but the manuals and the mgaguru site make no mention of this step. The manual says that the bearings are lubricated only by the hyphoid oil from the differential. _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html Mgs@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgs http://www.team.net/archive From mgs-bounces@autox.team.net Sun Feb 22 12:55:41 2009 From: Barrie Robinson To: Simon Matthews ,rfeibusch1@earthlink.net Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2009 10:29:10 -0500 Subject: Re: [Mgs] Large Stash of NOS Lucas Parts Simon, Why is it people get memorised by cutesy technology instead of giving one the info so one understands - I shall send them an email and say how awful their "catalog" is. At 03:56 PM 2/21/2009, Simon Matthews wrote: >Could they find a more difficult way to list the items that they have? > > > >On Sat, Feb 21, 2009 at 10:45 AM, wrote: > > FYI, > > > > Best, > > > > Rick Feibusch > > Venice, CA > > > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > > From: Michael Balch in Des Moins > > > > This is a website for a company that recently purchased a 2 story > > warehose full of NOS auto parts. Appears to be mostly vintage Lucas > > from the 1950s to the 1980s. You can go on the website and see > > pictures of what they have inventoried so far. If you want something, > > you send you them an e-mail and they will list it on EBAY. Some of > > the parts are already listed on EBAY. > > > > You may want to pass this on to the British car clubs/folks you know. > > > > http://maxwell-thomas.com/default.aspx >_______________________________________________ >Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > >You are subscribed as barrie@look.ca > > >Mgs@autox.team.net >http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgs > >http://www.team.net/archive Regards Barrie Barrie Robinson (705) 721-9060 http://www.britishv8.org/MG/BarrieRobinson.htm http://www.britcot.com _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html Mgs@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgs http://www.team.net/archive From mgs-bounces@autox.team.net Sun Feb 22 12:56:00 2009 From: Barrie Robinson To: ,"MG List" , Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2009 10:39:42 -0500 Subject: Re: [Mgs] Large Stash of NOS Lucas Parts This sounds like another stash in danger of disappearing. I am desperately trying to track down the assets of ALFA INSTRUMENTS & MARINE SERVICES of Toronto that closed a while back. Ted Sapieja had about 2,000 sqft stacked up to the rafters of Lucas and similar stuff, also comprehensive test and calibration gear At 04:11 PM 2/21/2009, frankk12@verizon.net wrote: >Thanks for the great heads up. I actually looked at everything on >their site, it took a while. How many more warehouses of stuff like >this exist? Every now and then one of these opportunities arises and >most of us stand and watch the parade pass us by. I would love to >bid on many of the items but fear that by having them listed on ebay >for me to bid on would only attract numerous bidders and the cost >will end up exceeding the value of the item. The exceptions are the >items that are NLA which command greater prices. It appears >everything they have is NOS. Alas... >Frank "Swamp Yankee" Krajewski >----- Original Message ----- >Subject: [Mgs] Large Stash of NOS Lucas Parts > > >>FYI, >> >>Best, >> >>Rick Feibusch >>Venice, CA >> >>---------- Forwarded message ---------- >>From: Michael Balch in Des Moins >> >>This is a website for a company that recently purchased a 2 story >>warehose full of NOS auto parts. Appears to be mostly vintage Lucas >>from the 1950s to the 1980s. You can go on the website and see >>pictures of what they have inventoried so far. If you want something, >>you send you them an e-mail and they will list it on EBAY. Some of >>the parts are already listed on EBAY. >> >>You may want to pass this on to the British car clubs/folks you know. >> >>http://maxwell-thomas.com/default.aspx >> >>Mike >_______________________________________________ >Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > >You are subscribed as barrie@look.ca > > >Mgs@autox.team.net >http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgs > >http://www.team.net/archive Regards Barrie Barrie Robinson (705) 721-9060 http://www.britishv8.org/MG/BarrieRobinson.htm http://www.britcot.com _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html Mgs@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgs http://www.team.net/archive From mgs-bounces@autox.team.net Sun Feb 22 14:03:05 2009 From: Max Heim To: MG List Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2009 12:10:18 -0800 Subject: [Mgs] Close but no cigar I did an all-day thrash yesterday to try to get the MG back together before the big storm hit (this is with new cam, tappets, timing chain and sprockets, and cylinder head). I actually had it all buttoned up and ready to fire by around 4:30, when I discovered the battery was dead (should have anticipated that). So the battery is on the charger while I watch the rain ....sigh. -- Max Heim '66 MGB GHN3L76149 If you're near Mountain View, CA, it's the primer red one with chrome wires _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html Mgs@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgs http://www.team.net/archive From mgs-bounces@autox.team.net Sun Feb 22 15:31:37 2009 From: "W. David Houser" To: Paul Hunt Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2009 17:31:10 -0500 Subject: Re: [Mgs] MGB rear brakes Believe also that there is a locating pin difference between the roadster and GT wheel cylinders for fitment. Dave Houser On Feb 22, 2009, at 10:19 AM, Paul Hunt wrote: > That's the theory, which is why GTs have larger diameter with the > greater > weight. However V8s have the roadster variant as they have stiffer > suspension > which makes them more liable to lock over undulations. > > PaulH. > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > At a tech session today, a member asked what would happen if one > used > GT rear cylinders on an open MGB. > Opinions voiced were that there would be rear wheel lock up during > hard braking, but nobody had personal experience. _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html Mgs@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgs http://www.team.net/archive From mgs-bounces@autox.team.net Sun Feb 22 16:06:03 2009 From: "Denise Thorpe" To: Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2009 18:05:36 -0500 Subject: Re: [Mgs] Unleaded fuel and Cylinder Head BlankHi Tom, My '67 MGB has 330K miles on it and I've never made any modifications to the head for unleaded fuel. I bought the car in '79 with 100K miles on it and have rebuilt 3 engines for it, the first when I first got the car. No removed head has had excessive valve seat wear and I don't use any additives. Most of these miles were in California. I know there are listers out there who have had valve problems with unleaded gas but I just haven't had that experience. Maybe it's because my car has the low-compression engine or the fact that I always use a 160 degree thermostat. Or maybe because most of those miles were with the top down. That being said, the official modification for unleaded fuel is to have hardened steel valve seats installed. The stock B head doesn't have separate valve seats so this involves removing enough metal to put in replacement valve seats. Once this is done to a head, it can never be undone. That head will require separate valve seats for the rest of its life. Listers have told horror stories of these valve seats coming loose and doing serious damage to the engine. Other listers insist that this never happens if the seats are installed correctly. If you think about it, hardened steel and the original head metal are very different and must expand differently with heat. Since different people have had opposite experiences, how do you know which experience you'll have? You can't, but my choice is always to pick the option that has the least potential for irreversible damage. If you don't do anything for unleaded gas, the worst that can happen is that your valves and valve seats will wear prematurely and then you'll need to pull the head and have hardened valve seats installed. If you put valve seats in initially, you'll never know if you needed to or not and the worst that can happen is that you'll have to replace the engine. You pays your money and takes your chances. Denise Thorpe, troublemaker Tom said: I know this has come up many times but not when I'm doing my heads. The '65 head goes to the machine shop next week. I need to know what parts to replace to allow me to safely burn unleaded fuel. Thanks, Tom [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type image/gif which had a name of Blank Bkgrd.gif] _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html Mgs@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgs http://www.team.net/archive From mgs-bounces@autox.team.net Sun Feb 22 20:45:56 2009 From: "Stephen West-fisher" To: Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2009 22:45:22 -0500 Subject: Re: [Mgs] Unleaded fuel and Cylinder Head The consensus on the Land-Rover list (if there can be such a thing) is that it depends upon how hard you run the engine. On an old Series Land-Rover you are running around 4000-4500 rpm at 60-65 mph (getting up there for an old farm implement) and folks that do that on a regular basis appear to have more of a problem with unleaded fuel. Some people don't seem to have any problems while others do. When my engine was redone I did have the seats put in but there was no abnormal wear upon teardown. -- Stephen West-Fisher Coastal Data Systems 727.599.4271 http://www.coastaldatasystems.com/ -----Original Message----- From: mgs-bounces@autox.team.net [mailto:mgs-bounces@autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Denise Thorpe Sent: Sunday, February 22, 2009 6:06 PM To: mgs@autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Mgs] Unleaded fuel and Cylinder Head BlankHi Tom, My '67 MGB has 330K miles on it and I've never made any modifications to the head for unleaded fuel. I bought the car in '79 with 100K miles on it and have rebuilt 3 engines for it, the first when I first got the car. No removed head has had excessive valve seat wear and I don't use any additives. Most of these miles were in California. I know there are listers out there who have had valve problems with unleaded gas but I just haven't had that experience. Maybe it's because my car has the low-compression engine or the fact that I always use a 160 degree thermostat. Or maybe because most of those miles were with the top down. _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html Mgs@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgs http://www.team.net/archive From mgs-bounces@autox.team.net Mon Feb 23 02:11:28 2009 From: "Paul Hunt" To: "W. David Houser" Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2009 08:42:50 -0000 Subject: Re: [Mgs] MGB rear brakes That's just to make sure only the correct sized slave can be fitted to the backplate. Something you have to bear in mind when moving axles or backplates from a GT to a roadster as I did. PaulH. ----- Original Message ----- Believe also that there is a locating pin difference between the roadster and GT wheel cylinders for fitment. _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html Mgs@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgs http://www.team.net/archive From mgs-bounces@autox.team.net Mon Feb 23 02:12:45 2009 From: "Paul Hunt" To: Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2009 08:57:05 -0000 Subject: Re: [Mgs] Unleaded fuel and Cylinder Head This is it. Research claimed to be from BMW some years ago stated that if an engine had done at least 40k on leaded and hadn't had the valves replaced or the seats recut then there would be enough lead leached into the surfaces to protect them for the rest of their service life (whatever that is). Tests in the UK have shown that it is only when the engine is run at full throttle or very nearly so for long periods do you get any recession anyway. I choose to use an additive and haven't had to open up the clearances since the UK lost leaded 10 years ago. I don't do a huge number of miles each year but what I do are done 'enthusiastically'. It is totally uneconomic to have a head converted purely to avoid buying an additive, an MGOC study in 2002 reckoned 70,000 miles if you did the work yourself, double that if you paid someone else. That was at UK prices, from what I have seen of the costs of parts and labour in America it would probably be much more. Of course, if the head needs replacing anyway due to cracking or warping and you are buying from a reputable source it makes sense to fit one that has been converted, unless you choose to buy an unknown quantity from a scrapyard or somesuch. Even then the MGOC study said that hardened seats and valves offer no more protection against recession than the best additive, it just saves you buying and adding it. PaulH. ----- Original Message ----- My '67 MGB has 330K miles on it and I've never made any modifications to the head for unleaded fuel. I bought the car in '79 with 100K miles on it and have rebuilt 3 engines for it, the first when I first got the car. No removed head has had excessive valve seat wear and I don't use any additives. _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html Mgs@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgs http://www.team.net/archive From mgs-bounces@autox.team.net Mon Feb 23 08:07:13 2009 From: Bob Howard To: mgs4dave@tampabay.rr.com Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2009 09:34:59 -0500 Subject: Re: [Mgs] MGB rear brakes Dave, Yes, there is a different pin location. Within the month I cleaned up a donated Salisbury axle to swap into my GT, with freshly painted backing plates, only to discover when changing over brake cylinders that the holes were in different places. It was at that tech session the question of using GT cylinders on tourers arose. Bob On Sun, 22 Feb 2009 17:31:10 -0500 "W. David Houser" writes: > Believe also that there is a locating pin difference between the > roadster and GT wheel cylinders for fitment. > Dave Houser > ____________________________________________________________ Compete with the big boys. Click here to find products to benefit your business. http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/fc/BLSrjpTI97x43LDABjahAGYgQKYw2cMt7ksKnXPhkSNLVUv2SYAzkcGIOG0/ _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html Mgs@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgs http://www.team.net/archive From mgs-bounces@autox.team.net Mon Feb 23 11:10:29 2009 From: Max Heim To: MG List Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2009 09:43:33 -0800 Subject: Re: [Mgs] Unleaded fuel and Cylinder Head There is one other consideration -- what are the ingredients in the additive? I used a lead substittute briefy in the 80s, but the witch's brew of known-toxic and evil-smelling ingredients convinced me to take my chances without it. -- Max Heim '66 MGB GHN3L76149 If you're near Mountain View, CA, it's the primer red one with chrome wires on 2/23/09 12:57 AM, Paul Hunt at paul.hunt1@blueyonder.co.uk wrote: > This is it. Research claimed to be from BMW some years ago stated that if an > engine had done at least 40k on leaded and hadn't had the valves replaced or > the seats recut then there would be enough lead leached into the surfaces to > protect them for the rest of their service life (whatever that is). Tests in > the UK have shown that it is only when the engine is run at full throttle or > very nearly so for long periods do you get any recession anyway. I choose to > use an additive and haven't had to open up the clearances since the UK lost > leaded 10 years ago. I don't do a huge number of miles each year but what I > do are done 'enthusiastically'. It is totally uneconomic to have a head > converted purely to avoid buying an additive, an MGOC study in 2002 reckoned > 70,000 miles if you did the work yourself, double that if you paid someone > else. That was at UK prices, from what I have seen of the costs of parts and > labour in America it would probably be much more. Of course, if the head > needs replacing anyway due to cracking or warping and you are buying from a > reputable source it makes sense to fit one that has been converted, unless you > choose to buy an unknown quantity from a scrapyard or somesuch. Even then the > MGOC study said that hardened seats and valves offer no more protection > against recession than the best additive, it just saves you buying and adding > it. > > PaulH. > ----- Original Message ----- > > > My '67 MGB has 330K miles on it and I've never made any modifications to > the > head for unleaded fuel. I bought the car in '79 with 100K miles on it and > have rebuilt 3 engines for it, the first when I first got the car. No > removed > head has had excessive valve seat wear and I don't use any additives. _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html Mgs@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgs http://www.team.net/archive From mgs-bounces@autox.team.net Mon Feb 23 11:24:25 2009 From: Duvall Video Productions To: mgs@autox.team.net Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2009 12:19:45 -0600 Subject: Re: [Mgs] Mgs Digest, Vol 21, Issue 24 Barrie, I think the answer is right on their web page, they haven't inventoried the lot yet..... Setting up a web page is not that big of a deal. On Feb 23, 2009, at 12:10 PM, mgs-request@autox.team.net wrote: > Message: 1 > Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2009 10:29:10 -0500 > From: Barrie Robinson > Subject: Re: [Mgs] Large Stash of NOS Lucas Parts > To: Simon Matthews > ,rfeibusch1@earthlink.net > Cc: rilet@autox.team.net, healeys@autox.team.net, mgs@autox.team.net, > mg-t@autox.team.net, spridgets@autox.team.net, morris@autox.team.net > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed > > Simon, > > Why is it people get memorised by cutesy technology instead of giving > one the info so one understands - I shall send them an email and say > how awful their "catalog" is. _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html Mgs@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgs http://www.team.net/archive From mgs-bounces@autox.team.net Mon Feb 23 13:03:43 2009 From: "Norm 2Bs" To: "MG Digest" Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2009 15:03:07 -0500 Subject: Re: [Mgs] MGB rear brakes It has been 2 years since my MGB & I parted company. But, if my failing memory serves me right, I used the larger GT rear cylinders on my '66 roadster BECAUSE I raced it. The theory was, the master puts out x-volume of brake fluid. A larger wheel cylinder is moved less given that volume. As I said, I'm no longer certain of that. But, in the years I raced the B, I never had problems with over-braking at the rear - neither on the track or on the street. Only time I remember locking up was in Turn 1 at The Glen. Then all 4 locked up. Generally, I could out-brake almost all of the cars in my race group with that setup & Hawk pads on the front & metallic shoes on the rear. Norm Sippel '59 Turner '60 Alfa _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html Mgs@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgs http://www.team.net/archive From mgs-bounces@autox.team.net Mon Feb 23 14:10:30 2009 From: Max Heim To: MG List Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2009 12:53:16 -0800 Subject: Re: [Mgs] MGB rear brakes I am inclined to agree with your thinking. For instance, truck rear wheel cylinders are often larger than a similar-sized passenger car, for the reason you state -- to apply proportionally less shoe motion per inch of pedal travel to the rear brakes, to avoid rear wheel lockup when unloaded. In an example from another genre, people that upgrade the rear axles in Mopar A-bodies (to 8.75 from 7.25 ring gear) often compensate for the larger rear drums (to 10" from 9") by fitting Dodge truck rear wheel cylinders (to 7/8" from 3/4"). By that logic, the rear-heavy MGB-GT should have had SMALLER diameter rear wheel cylinders. On the other hand, the nose-heavy MGC may have had larger cylinders. Were those MGC-GT rear cylinders, possibly? on 2/23/09 12:03 PM, Norm 2Bs at twobees@sprynet.com wrote: > It has been 2 years since my MGB & I parted company. But, if my failing > memory serves me right, I used the larger GT rear cylinders on my '66 > roadster BECAUSE I raced it. The theory was, the master puts out x-volume > of brake fluid. A larger wheel cylinder is moved less given that volume. > > As I said, I'm no longer certain of that. But, in the years I raced the B, > I never had problems with over-braking at the rear - neither on the track or > on the street. Only time I remember locking up was in Turn 1 at The Glen. > Then all 4 locked up. Generally, I could out-brake almost all of the cars > in my race group with that setup & Hawk pads on the front & metallic shoes > on the rear. > > Norm Sippel > '59 Turner > '60 Alfa -- Max Heim '66 MGB GHN3L76149 If you're near Mountain View, CA, it's the primer red one with chrome wires _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html Mgs@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgs http://www.team.net/archive From mgs-bounces@autox.team.net Mon Feb 23 14:34:57 2009 From: To: MG List , Max Heim Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2009 16:34:30 -0500 Subject: Re: [Mgs] MGB rear brakes ---- Max Heim wrote: >I replaced the rear wheel cylinders on My 71 MGB GT several years ago. The parts vendor, Proper MG, catalog did not make a distinction between the part for the B roadster and GT. The ones they sent were for the roadster only. Then they sent the proper wheel cylinders. As I recall, they were both virtually the same size, but the attachment holes were spaced differently...Mel s I am inclined to agree with your thinking. For instance, truck rear wheel > cylinders are often larger than a similar-sized passenger car, for the > reason you state -- to apply proportionally less shoe motion per inch of > pedal travel to the rear brakes, to avoid rear wheel lockup when unloaded. > > In an example from another genre, people that upgrade the rear axles in > Mopar A-bodies (to 8.75 from 7.25 ring gear) often compensate for the larger > rear drums (to 10" from 9") by fitting Dodge truck rear wheel cylinders (to > 7/8" from 3/4"). > > By that logic, the rear-heavy MGB-GT should have had SMALLER diameter rear > wheel cylinders. On the other hand, the nose-heavy MGC may have had larger > cylinders. > > Were those MGC-GT rear cylinders, possibly? > > > > on 2/23/09 12:03 PM, Norm 2Bs at twobees@sprynet.com wrote: > > > It has been 2 years since my MGB & I parted company. But, if my failing > > memory serves me right, I used the larger GT rear cylinders on my '66 > > roadster BECAUSE I raced it. The theory was, the master puts out x-volume > > of brake fluid. A larger wheel cylinder is moved less given that volume. > > > > As I said, I'm no longer certain of that. But, in the years I raced the B, > > I never had problems with over-braking at the rear - neither on the track or > > on the street. Only time I remember locking up was in Turn 1 at The Glen. > > Then all 4 locked up. Generally, I could out-brake almost all of the cars > > in my race group with that setup & Hawk pads on the front & metallic shoes > > on the rear. > > > > Norm Sippel > > '59 Turner > > '60 Alfa > > > > > -- > > Max Heim > '66 MGB GHN3L76149 > If you're near Mountain View, CA, > it's the primer red one with chrome wires > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > > You are subscribed as melfrankus@carolina.rr.com > > > Mgs@autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgs > > http://www.team.net/archive _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html Mgs@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgs http://www.team.net/archive From mgs-bounces@autox.team.net Mon Feb 23 15:05:31 2009 From: Simon Matthews To: Max Heim Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2009 14:05:03 -0800 Subject: Re: [Mgs] MGB rear brakes It's not about the amount of fluid, it's about the force applied. With a larger diameter slave cylinder, the same pressure is applied to a larger area, resulting in a greater force. Hence greater braking effort. The fluid will move in a manner that equalizes the pressure throughout the system (barirng pressure limiters or other features). Vehicles used to have pressure limiters on the rear brakes, allowing a greater rear/front braking effort ratio under normal (not emergency) braking -- I don't know if this is still the case now ABS brakes are almost universal. Simon On Mon, Feb 23, 2009 at 12:53 PM, Max Heim wrote: > I am inclined to agree with your thinking. For instance, truck rear wheel > cylinders are often larger than a similar-sized passenger car, for the > reason you state -- to apply proportionally less shoe motion per inch of > pedal travel to the rear brakes, to avoid rear wheel lockup when unloaded. > > In an example from another genre, people that upgrade the rear axles in > Mopar A-bodies (to 8.75 from 7.25 ring gear) often compensate for the larger > rear drums (to 10" from 9") by fitting Dodge truck rear wheel cylinders (to > 7/8" from 3/4"). > > By that logic, the rear-heavy MGB-GT should have had SMALLER diameter rear > wheel cylinders. On the other hand, the nose-heavy MGC may have had larger > cylinders. > > Were those MGC-GT rear cylinders, possibly? > > > > on 2/23/09 12:03 PM, Norm 2Bs at twobees@sprynet.com wrote: > >> It has been 2 years since my MGB & I parted company. But, if my failing >> memory serves me right, I used the larger GT rear cylinders on my '66 >> roadster BECAUSE I raced it. The theory was, the master puts out x-volume >> of brake fluid. A larger wheel cylinder is moved less given that volume. >> >> As I said, I'm no longer certain of that. But, in the years I raced the B, >> I never had problems with over-braking at the rear - neither on the track or >> on the street. Only time I remember locking up was in Turn 1 at The Glen. >> Then all 4 locked up. Generally, I could out-brake almost all of the cars >> in my race group with that setup & Hawk pads on the front & metallic shoes >> on the rear. >> >> Norm Sippel >> '59 Turner >> '60 Alfa > > > > > -- > > Max Heim > '66 MGB GHN3L76149 > If you're near Mountain View, CA, > it's the primer red one with chrome wires > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > > You are subscribed as simon.d.matthews@gmail.com > > > Mgs@autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgs > > http://www.team.net/archive _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html Mgs@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgs http://www.team.net/archive From mgs-bounces@autox.team.net Mon Feb 23 18:59:31 2009 From: "Ed's Shop" To: "Mgs@Autox.Team.Net" , "MG T list" Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2009 19:59:36 -0600 Subject: [Mgs] ?????? 1st, sorry to bomb List. 2nd, sent below to the three (3) Spridgets Lists I am on, but am now wondering if gent is a MGer?? TIA Ed ********************************************** Sorry to bomb Lists, but does anybody have Personal contact with Paul Archibald ?? I know he is not currently on Autox List and can't figure out how to find out on Yahoo. His addy book has been hijacked by a Trojan!!! TIA. ! Ed _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html Mgs@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgs http://www.team.net/archive From mgs-bounces@autox.team.net Tue Feb 24 05:43:46 2009 From: "Paul Hunt" To: "Max Heim" , "MG List" Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2009 12:25:05 -0000 Subject: Re: [Mgs] Unleaded fuel and Cylinder Head There are various brews. Four were tested and compared in the UK - phosphorus, manganese, potassium and sodium. There may be others. Wear rates varied, phosphorus gave about 10% more wear than lead, manganese double, potassium triple and sodium five times. Castrol Valvemaster uses phosphorus and I've always stuck to that. In fact one shouldn't mix additives as they can inter-react and cause valve sticking problems, apparently. A 250ml bottle treats 250 gallons and has a handy dispenser marked in litres. Costs about 10 quid for a bottle so only adds pennies for peace of mind. LRP when it was available in the UK used potassium, but only at about half the normal dosage so it didn't knacker the cat if owners put it into their modern cars! PaulH. ----- Original Message ----- ... what are the ingredients in the additive? _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html Mgs@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgs http://www.team.net/archive From mgs-bounces@autox.team.net Tue Feb 24 05:44:31 2009 From: "Paul Hunt" To: "Simon Matthews" , "Max Heim" Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2009 12:32:13 -0000 Subject: Re: [Mgs] MGB rear brakes Correct. When cars like the original Mini had drum brakes all round and the same cylinders they used a pressure limiting valve. The MGB doesn't because the brake balance can be set with the cylinders vs the calipers. Modern cars with discs all round achieve the same thing with differing caliper/piston sizes or a proportioning valve or a combination of both, even with ABS, like the Zed series. You wouldn't want the rear brakes to be modulated by the ABS with all that pulsing under your foot under 'normal' braking. PaulH. ----- Original Message ----- It's not about the amount of fluid, it's about the force applied. With a larger diameter slave cylinder, the same pressure is applied to a larger area, resulting in a greater force. Hence greater braking effort. _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html Mgs@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgs http://www.team.net/archive From mgs-bounces@autox.team.net Tue Feb 24 07:23:59 2009 From: Charles & Peggy Robinson To: Simon Matthews Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2009 08:23:16 -0600 Subject: Re: [Mgs] MGB rear brakes OK Simon but he's right about the movement being less in a larger cylinder, with the same amount of fluid displaced by the master. CR Simon Matthews wrote: > It's not about the amount of fluid, it's about the force applied. With > a larger diameter slave cylinder, the same pressure is applied to a > larger area, resulting in a greater force. Hence greater braking > effort. > > Simon _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html Mgs@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgs http://www.team.net/archive From mgs-bounces@autox.team.net Tue Feb 24 07:37:27 2009 From: David Breneman To: "Mgs@Autox.Team.Net" , MG T list Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2009 06:37:00 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: [Mgs] ?????? --- On Mon, 2/23/09, Ed's Shop forwards: > His addy book has been hijacked by a Trojan!!! Warrior or condom? _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html Mgs@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgs http://www.team.net/archive From mgs-bounces@autox.team.net Tue Feb 24 07:55:26 2009 From: "Larry Daniels" To: "Charles & Peggy Robinson" , "Simon Matthews" Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2009 08:53:50 -0600 Subject: Re: [Mgs] MGB rear brakes CR I would think you would be correct only up to the point that the piston meets resistance and then the piston meeting the least resistance would start receiving more fluid and travel further. The fluid moved by the pressure exerted isn't particular about where it goes -- only that it goes on the path of least resistance. Larry Daniels ----- Original Message ----- From: "Charles & Peggy Robinson" To: "Simon Matthews" Cc: "MG List" Sent: Tuesday, February 24, 2009 8:23 AM Subject: Re: [Mgs] MGB rear brakes OK Simon but he's right about the movement being less in a larger cylinder, with the same amount of fluid displaced by the master. CR Simon Matthews wrote: > It's not about the amount of fluid, it's about the force applied. With > a larger diameter slave cylinder, the same pressure is applied to a > larger area, resulting in a greater force. Hence greater braking > effort. > > Simon You are subscribed as ladaniels@sbcglobal.net Mgs@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgs http://www.team.net/archive _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html Mgs@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgs http://www.team.net/archive From mgs-bounces@autox.team.net Tue Feb 24 08:22:52 2009 From: Dan DiBiase To: david_breneman@yahoo.com, "Mgs@Autox.Team.Net" , Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2009 07:22:26 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: [Mgs] ?????? Neither, USC athlete. ;-) Dan D Central NJ USA '76 MGB Tourer '65 MGB Tourer (Project) NAMGBR #5-2328 http://dans65b.blogspot.com/ http://dans76b.blogspot.com/ http://dansautoblog.blogspot.com/ http://mywebpages.comcast.net/dibiase/Working_MG_Gallery.html http://dans-life-blog.blogspot.com/ ________________________________ From: David Breneman To: "Mgs@Autox.Team.Net" ; MG T list ; Ed's Shop Sent: Tuesday, February 24, 2009 9:37:00 AM Subject: Re: [Mgs] ?????? --- On Mon, 2/23/09, Ed's Shop forwards: > His addy book has been hijacked by a Trojan!!! Warrior or condom? You are subscribed as d_dibiase@yahoo.com Mgs@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgs http://www.team.net/archive _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html Mgs@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgs http://www.team.net/archive From mgs-bounces@autox.team.net Tue Feb 24 09:09:51 2009 From: "Paul Hunt" To: "Charles & Peggy Robinson" , "Simon Matthews" Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2009 16:02:25 -0000 Subject: Re: [Mgs] MGB rear brakes Fluid is really only displaced when the shoes are taking up the slack, and you aren't developing any pressure then, and there is no braking. It is only when all the slack has been taken up that you start to develop pressure, and it is only then that the brake will start to slow down the car. The more slack you have the more fluid will need to be displaced, like when the rear shoes need adjustment, and the pedal will go down further before you start to get any braking. It's true that a larger cylinder will need more fluid to be displaced to take up a given amount of slack, but that is nothing to do with retardation or braking force. When all the slack has been taken up and you start to develop pressure and cause retardation, that is when a larger cylinder will generate more retardation with a given pedal pressure. PaulH. ----- Original Message ----- OK Simon but he's right about the movement being less in a larger cylinder, with the same amount of fluid displaced by the master. _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html Mgs@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgs http://www.team.net/archive From mgs-bounces@autox.team.net Tue Feb 24 10:07:40 2009 From: Simon Matthews To: "Charles & Peggy Robinson" Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2009 09:07:15 -0800 Subject: Re: [Mgs] MGB rear brakes Charles, When you brake, do you push your foot down a certain distance? Or do you push down until you get the appropriate resistance from the pedal? Yes, it takes more fluid, but this is irrelevant. The driver just pushes the pedal further in order to get the same resistance. The fluid will move in the system to keep the pressure uniform throughout. Simon On Tue, Feb 24, 2009 at 6:23 AM, Charles & Peggy Robinson wrote: > OK Simon but he's right about the movement being less in a larger cylinder, > with the same amount of fluid displaced by the master. > > CR > > > Simon Matthews wrote: >> >> It's not about the amount of fluid, it's about the force applied. With >> a larger diameter slave cylinder, the same pressure is applied to a >> larger area, resulting in a greater force. Hence greater braking >> effort. >> > >> Simon _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html Mgs@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgs http://www.team.net/archive From mgs-bounces@autox.team.net Tue Feb 24 10:11:25 2009 From: Simon Matthews To: Paul Hunt Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2009 09:10:26 -0800 Subject: Re: [Mgs] Unleaded fuel and Cylinder Head If I recall correctly, some of these mixtures did absolutely nothing. One of the mixtures that did work (to some extent) and is available in the USA was made be Red Line Oils. Simon On Tue, Feb 24, 2009 at 4:25 AM, Paul Hunt wrote: > There are various brews. Four were tested and compared in the UK - > phosphorus, manganese, potassium and sodium. There may be others. Wear rates > varied, phosphorus gave about 10% more wear than lead, manganese double, > potassium triple and sodium five times. Castrol Valvemaster uses phosphorus > and I've always stuck to that. In fact one shouldn't mix additives as they > can inter-react and cause valve sticking problems, apparently. A 250ml bottle > treats 250 gallons and has a handy dispenser marked in litres. Costs about 10 > quid for a bottle so only adds pennies for peace of mind. LRP when it was > available in the UK used potassium, but only at about half the normal dosage > so it didn't knacker the cat if owners put it into their modern cars! > > PaulH. > ----- Original Message ----- > > > ... what are the ingredients in the > additive? > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > > You are subscribed as simon.d.matthews@gmail.com > > > Mgs@autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgs > > http://www.team.net/archive _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html Mgs@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgs http://www.team.net/archive From mgs-bounces@autox.team.net Tue Feb 24 10:39:19 2009 From: Max Heim To: MG List Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2009 09:31:09 -0800 Subject: Re: [Mgs] MGB rear brakes But in a dual master cylinder system, it is possible to meet resistance in one circuit before reaching that point in the other circuit (for example, in the case of a failed hose in one circuit). The pressure does NOT equalize between the completely independent circuits. So my argument is that by using larger wheel cylinders in the rear brake circuit, you are delaying the onset of braking force in the rear circuit, by requiring more fluid to be moved in order to reach the point of applying braking force RELATIVE TO THE FRONT CIRCUIT. Now do you see what I mean? I think we have established that single and dual master cylinder systems behave very differently in this respect, so that one needs to be careful in defining the question. -- Max Heim '66 MGB GHN3L76149 If you're near Mountain View, CA, it's the primer red one with chrome wires on 2/24/09 9:07 AM, Simon Matthews at simon.d.matthews@gmail.com wrote: > Charles, > > When you brake, do you push your foot down a certain distance? Or do > you push down until you get the appropriate resistance from the pedal? > > Yes, it takes more fluid, but this is irrelevant. The driver just > pushes the pedal further in order to get the same resistance. The > fluid will move in the system to keep the pressure uniform > throughout. > > Simon > > On Tue, Feb 24, 2009 at 6:23 AM, Charles & Peggy Robinson > wrote: >> OK Simon but he's right about the movement being less in a larger cylinder, >> with the same amount of fluid displaced by the master. >> >> CR >> >> >> Simon Matthews wrote: >>> >>> It's not about the amount of fluid, it's about the force applied. With >>> a larger diameter slave cylinder, the same pressure is applied to a >>> larger area, resulting in a greater force. Hence greater braking >>> effort. >>> >> >>> Simon _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html Mgs@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgs http://www.team.net/archive From mgs-bounces@autox.team.net Tue Feb 24 10:57:49 2009 From: Bert P To: mgs@autox.team.net Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2009 18:56:48 +0100 Subject: Re: [Mgs] MGB rear brakes At 18:07 24-2-2009, you wrote: >Charles, > >When you brake, do you push your foot down a certain distance? Or do >you push down until you get the appropriate resistance from the pedal? Rather until a certain degree of deceleration is achieved.... _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html Mgs@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgs http://www.team.net/archive From mgs-bounces@autox.team.net Tue Feb 24 11:12:11 2009 From: Simon Matthews To: Max Heim Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2009 10:11:08 -0800 Subject: Re: [Mgs] MGB rear brakes Max, It's not quite so simple. This description of dual master cylinders describes a balance bar used to ensure equal force is applied to each cylinder: http://www.hotrodheaven.com/tech/brakes/brakes3.htm In this scenario, the balance bar would act to equalise the pressures between front and rear. Also, are not some brake systems split diagonally? This patent describes a tandem dual-master cylinder setup in which the two circuits also have equal pressure: http://www.tpub.com/content/construction/14273/css/14273_248.htm Regards, Simon On Tue, Feb 24, 2009 at 9:31 AM, Max Heim wrote: > But in a dual master cylinder system, it is possible to meet resistance in > one circuit before reaching that point in the other circuit (for example, in > the case of a failed hose in one circuit). The pressure does NOT equalize > between the completely independent circuits. So my argument is that by using > larger wheel cylinders in the rear brake circuit, you are delaying the onset > of braking force in the rear circuit, by requiring more fluid to be moved in > order to reach the point of applying braking force RELATIVE TO THE FRONT > CIRCUIT. Now do you see what I mean? > > I think we have established that single and dual master cylinder systems > behave very differently in this respect, so that one needs to be careful in > defining the question. > > -- > > Max Heim > '66 MGB GHN3L76149 > If you're near Mountain View, CA, > it's the primer red one with chrome wires > > > > on 2/24/09 9:07 AM, Simon Matthews at simon.d.matthews@gmail.com wrote: > >> Charles, >> >> When you brake, do you push your foot down a certain distance? Or do >> you push down until you get the appropriate resistance from the pedal? >> >> Yes, it takes more fluid, but this is irrelevant. The driver just >> pushes the pedal further in order to get the same resistance. The >> fluid will move in the system to keep the pressure uniform >> throughout. >> >> Simon >> >> On Tue, Feb 24, 2009 at 6:23 AM, Charles & Peggy Robinson >> wrote: >>> OK Simon but he's right about the movement being less in a larger cylinder, >>> with the same amount of fluid displaced by the master. >>> >>> CR >>> >>> >>> Simon Matthews wrote: >>>> >>>> It's not about the amount of fluid, it's about the force applied. With >>>> a larger diameter slave cylinder, the same pressure is applied to a >>>> larger area, resulting in a greater force. Hence greater braking >>>> effort. >>>> >>> >>>> Simon > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > > You are subscribed as simon.d.matthews@gmail.com > > > Mgs@autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgs > > http://www.team.net/archive _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html Mgs@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgs http://www.team.net/archive From mgs-bounces@autox.team.net Tue Feb 24 11:59:46 2009 From: Max Heim To: MG List Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2009 10:55:30 -0800 Subject: Re: [Mgs] MGB rear brakes on 2/24/09 10:11 AM, Simon Matthews at simon.d.matthews@gmail.com wrote: > Max, > > It's not quite so simple. This description of dual master cylinders > describes a balance bar used to ensure equal force is applied to each > cylinder: > http://www.hotrodheaven.com/tech/brakes/brakes3.htm > In this scenario, the balance bar would act to equalise the pressures > between front and rear. Also, are not some brake systems split > diagonally? Balance bars are used in race cars (which are invariably disc/disc). I was talking about tandem dual MCs as used in almost all production cars. While I have heard of diagonally-split systems in theory, I cannot think of a single real-world application. I am sure someone will speak up and enlighten me. > > This patent describes a tandem dual-master cylinder setup in which the > two circuits also have equal pressure: > > http://www.tpub.com/content/construction/14273/css/14273_248.htm I can't tell from this fragment how this applies to the argument, if at all. Anyway, I am not just arguing from a theoretical standpoint, here -- I am describing reported real world experiences with examples of applications. You can say what you want, but there seems to be a generally-held belief that using larger diameter rear wheel cylinders on tandem MC disc/drum brake systems has the effect of reducing rear wheel lock-up, particularly for vehicles with strong front weight bias. > Regards, > Simon > > > On Tue, Feb 24, 2009 at 9:31 AM, Max Heim wrote: >> But in a dual master cylinder system, it is possible to meet resistance in >> one circuit before reaching that point in the other circuit (for example, in >> the case of a failed hose in one circuit). The pressure does NOT equalize >> between the completely independent circuits. So my argument is that by using >> larger wheel cylinders in the rear brake circuit, you are delaying the onset >> of braking force in the rear circuit, by requiring more fluid to be moved in >> order to reach the point of applying braking force RELATIVE TO THE FRONT >> CIRCUIT. Now do you see what I mean? >> >> I think we have established that single and dual master cylinder systems >> behave very differently in this respect, so that one needs to be careful in >> defining the question. >> >> -- >> >> Max Heim >> '66 MGB GHN3L76149 >> If you're near Mountain View, CA, >> it's the primer red one with chrome wires >> -- Max Heim '66 MGB GHN3L76149 If you're near Mountain View, CA, it's the primer red one with chrome wires _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html Mgs@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgs http://www.team.net/archive From mgs-bounces@autox.team.net Tue Feb 24 12:38:06 2009 From: Richard Ewald To: Max Heim Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2009 11:07:04 -0800 Subject: Re: [Mgs] MGB rear brakes All current production Volvos use a diagonal split system. The old 140/240 series used a dual diagonal split system where each front caliper had two circuits in it, so if 1/2 the master was lost, you have 50% of each front wheel, plus 1 rear wheel left for braking. There were 2 brake lines and 3 bleed screws on each front caliper. Used to confuse the hell out of new mechanics. Rick On Tue, Feb 24, 2009 at 10:55 AM, Max Heim wrote: > on 2/24/09 10:11 AM, Simon Matthews at simon.d.matthews@gmail.com wrote: > > While I have heard of diagonally-split systems in theory, I cannot think > of > a single real-world application. I am sure someone will speak up and > enlighten me. _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html Mgs@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgs http://www.team.net/archive From mgs-bounces@autox.team.net Tue Feb 24 12:49:53 2009 From: Simon Matthews To: Max Heim Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2009 11:36:16 -0800 Subject: Re: [Mgs] MGB rear brakes Max, let me suggest that "it depends". A little googling reveals that diagonal-split systems are normally found on front-wheel drive cars. As to whether increasing the diameter of the rear cylinders will increase or decrease rear-braking bias, I think that ultimately it depends on how the two pistons in a tandem master cylinder system are connected. I can imagine different scenarios where increasing the diameter could have either effect. However, consider this, if increasing the diameter of the slave cylinder results in reduced braking, then the same effect (for drum brakes) could be achieved merely by backing off the adjustment of the rear brakes (since more fulid will be required to bring the brake shoes into contact with the drums). This would appear to be a simpler method. SImon On Tue, Feb 24, 2009 at 10:55 AM, Max Heim wrote: > on 2/24/09 10:11 AM, Simon Matthews at simon.d.matthews@gmail.com wrote: > >> Max, >> >> It's not quite so simple. This description of dual master cylinders >> describes a balance bar used to ensure equal force is applied to each >> cylinder: >> http://www.hotrodheaven.com/tech/brakes/brakes3.htm >> In this scenario, the balance bar would act to equalise the pressures >> between front and rear. Also, are not some brake systems split >> diagonally? > > Balance bars are used in race cars (which are invariably disc/disc). I was > talking about tandem dual MCs as used in almost all production cars. > > While I have heard of diagonally-split systems in theory, I cannot think of > a single real-world application. I am sure someone will speak up and > enlighten me. > >> >> This patent describes a tandem dual-master cylinder setup in which the >> two circuits also have equal pressure: >> >> http://www.tpub.com/content/construction/14273/css/14273_248.htm > > I can't tell from this fragment how this applies to the argument, if at all. > > Anyway, I am not just arguing from a theoretical standpoint, here -- I am > describing reported real world experiences with examples of applications. > You can say what you want, but there seems to be a generally-held belief > that using larger diameter rear wheel cylinders on tandem MC disc/drum brake > systems has the effect of reducing rear wheel lock-up, particularly for > vehicles with strong front weight bias. _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html Mgs@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgs http://www.team.net/archive From mgs-bounces@autox.team.net Tue Feb 24 13:21:59 2009 From: Max Heim To: MG List Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2009 11:42:19 -0800 Subject: Re: [Mgs] MGB rear brakes But not a reliable one, as the self-adjusting feature of modern drum brakes would quickly take up the slack. MGBs don't have this problem, obviously. on 2/24/09 11:36 AM, Simon Matthews at simon.d.matthews@gmail.com wrote: > However, consider this, if increasing the diameter of the slave > cylinder results in reduced braking, then the same effect (for drum > brakes) could be achieved merely by backing off the adjustment of the > rear brakes (since more fulid will be required to bring the brake > shoes into contact with the drums). This would appear to be a simpler > method. -- Max Heim '66 MGB GHN3L76149 If you're near Mountain View, CA, it's the primer red one with chrome wires _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html Mgs@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgs http://www.team.net/archive From mgs-bounces@autox.team.net Tue Feb 24 19:00:52 2009 From: "Ed's Shop" To: "4 - Illini Chapter - AHCA" , "09 - Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2009 19:52:46 -0600 Subject: [Mgs] FW: Great Fun w/o sex Gun LOVERS "HEAVEN" ~~~~ Gwad I would LOVE to go !!!!! http://tinyurl.com/cue5al OR http://g4tv.com/attackoftheshow/exclusives/64615/OFASTS -Gun-Apocalypse.html Me _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html Mgs@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgs http://www.team.net/archive From mgs-bounces@autox.team.net Wed Feb 25 02:37:31 2009 From: "Paul Hunt" To: "Simon Matthews" Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2009 08:49:25 -0000 Subject: Re: [Mgs] Unleaded fuel and Cylinder Head In the UK tests some of the provided 'solutions' actually made recession worse! We weren't told what these were, only those that gave an acceptable reduction in recession. Red Line was one of the original products recommended by the FBHVC, but contains sodium and so was the least effective of the four. In increasing effectiveness the others were Millers VSP (manganese), SuperBlend Zero Lead 2000 (potassium) and Castrol Valvemaster (phosphorus). PaulH. ----- Original Message ----- If I recall correctly, some of these mixtures did absolutely nothing. One of the mixtures that did work (to some extent) and is available in the USA was made be Red Line Oils. _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html Mgs@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgs http://www.team.net/archive From mgs-bounces@autox.team.net Wed Feb 25 02:53:07 2009 From: "Paul Hunt" To: "Max Heim" , "MG List" Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2009 09:16:26 -0000 Subject: Re: [Mgs] MGB rear brakes The pressure *does* equalise in the MGB master cylinder. The pedal pushes on the first stage of the piston, that pushes on the fluid for the primary circuit (front brakes) which also pushes on the second stage of the piston, which pushes on the fluid of the secondary circuit (rear brakes). There is a spring keeping the two sections of the piston apart. It is not until both circuits have taken up all the free play that either circuit starts developing any pressure, which means that the pressure in both circuits is equal - under normal circumstances. With a failure in the primary circuit the primary piston cannot develop any pressure in the fluid to start moving the secondary piston, until the primary piston has moved far enough forward to start moving the second piston mechanically rather than hydraulically. The secondary circuit is then pressurised, but you only have about 10% braking as that is for the rear brakes, and the pedal has moved further downwards. If the secondary circuit fails the primary piston moves the secondary piston as normal, but that cannot develop any pressure until it reaches the end of the master cylinder, and it is only then that pressure is developed in the primary circuit (front brakes). This also results in a longer than normal pedal movement, but only 10% less braking effort. Drivers are typically so stupid that they need the brake balance warning even though the pedal travel has become significantly longer. PaulH. ----- Original Message ----- But in a dual master cylinder system, it is possible to meet resistance in one circuit before reaching that point in the other circuit (for example, in the case of a failed hose in one circuit). The pressure does NOT equalize between the completely independent circuits. _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html Mgs@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgs http://www.team.net/archive From mgs-bounces@autox.team.net Wed Feb 25 03:54:14 2009 From: "Ed's Shop" To: "MG List" Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2009 04:50:55 -0600 Subject: Re: [Mgs] Unleaded fuel and Cylinder Head <> SAD part, Paul?? I DO recall the test AND those 'results'!! Time flies............................. Ed _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html Mgs@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgs http://www.team.net/archive From mgs-bounces@autox.team.net Wed Feb 25 05:53:27 2009 From: Paul Osborne To: mgs@autox.team.net Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2009 07:47:45 -0500 Subject: Re: [Mgs] Unleaded fuel and Cylinder Head Hello, just my observations on head rebuilds. Have done 3 heads from various B and midget engines. New steel guides and reground valves and cleaned up seat faces. the fuel being used in all of these is mid to high octane and have noticed no valve seat problems. These are cars that are driven as daily drivers in the better weather here in the north east. paul -- Paul Osborne University of Rochester Engineering & Technical Services Department of Electrical and Computer Engineering 201 Hopeman Bldg River Campus Rochester, New York 14627 585-275-5226 paul@ece.rochester.edu _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html Mgs@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgs http://www.team.net/archive From mgs-bounces@autox.team.net Wed Feb 25 07:32:24 2009 From: Rick Lindsay To: mgs@autox.team.net, Paul Osborne Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2009 06:09:58 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: [Mgs] Unleaded fuel and Cylinder Head Hello LBCers, Tetra-ethyl-lead did three things, 1) It elevated the apparent octane rating of the fuel to reduce ping (pinking), predetonation and the possibility of run-on. It did so by elevating the flash point of the fuel. 2) It left lead deposits on the surfaces of the combustion chamber, including the valve seats. That may have cushioned the valve-seat collision but more importantly, that thin deposit allowed the valve to 'bite' into the coating for a better seal. 3) It was argued that it put lots of lead pollution into the atmosphere. I have always viewed those aftermarket 'additives' as octane boosters, not compounds to replace the lead deposited on the seats. It only makes sense that one would see no added protection to the seats if the actual goal was to tweak the octane. YMMV. rick --- On Wed, 2/25/09, Paul Osborne wrote: > Hello, just my observations on head rebuilds. Have done 3 > heads from various B and midget engines. New steel guides > and reground valves and cleaned up seat faces. the fuel > being used in all of these is mid to high octane and have > noticed no valve seat problems. These are cars that are > driven as daily drivers in the better weather here in the > north east. > > paul _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html Mgs@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgs http://www.team.net/archive From mgs-bounces@autox.team.net Wed Feb 25 08:39:22 2009 From: "Paul Hunt" To: "Rick Lindsay" , Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2009 15:12:51 -0000 Subject: Re: [Mgs] Unleaded fuel and Cylinder Head Additives are produced for both purposes, plus others such as fuel system cleaners. Some additives are for lead replacement e.g. Red Line Lead Replacement, some for octane boosting e.g. STP Octane Booster, and some claim to do both e.g. Castrol Valvemaster Plus, to name but three. Octane boosting is all about being able to run on lower grade fuel with the original timing without pinking regardless of whether you use leaded or unleaded. Lead replacement is all about protecting the seats from recession regardless of what octane you use. 99RON (UK 4 star) leaded did both. PaulH. ----- Original Message ----- I have always viewed those aftermarket 'additives' as octane boosters, not compounds to replace the lead deposited on the seats. _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html Mgs@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgs http://www.team.net/archive From mgs-bounces@autox.team.net Wed Feb 25 12:05:30 2009 From: Steven Trovato To: mgs@autox.team.net Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2009 13:40:33 -0500 Subject: Re: [Mgs] Unleaded fuel and Cylinder Head Speaking of additives, take a look at this: http://www.maxlead2000.com/ How can this possibly be legal? Seems like you can even get it in California, if you promise to only use it in your boat. Yeah, right. -Steve Trovato strovato@optonline.net _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html Mgs@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgs http://www.team.net/archive From mgs-bounces@autox.team.net Wed Feb 25 13:37:12 2009 From: Barney Gaylord To: Steven Trovato ,mgs@autox.team.net Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2009 14:22:37 -0600 Subject: Re: [Mgs] Unleaded fuel and Cylinder Head At 01:40 PM 2/25/2009 -0500, Steven Trovato wrote: >Speaking of additives, take a look at this: > >http://www.maxlead2000.com/ > >How can this possibly be legal? .... >.... Who cares? At $45/gallon (plus shipping) it's $3 or more every time you fill the tank. _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html Mgs@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgs http://www.team.net/archive From mgs-bounces@autox.team.net Wed Feb 25 14:11:16 2009 From: Barney Gaylord To: mgs@autox.team.net,british-cars@autox.team.net Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2009 14:50:47 -0600 Subject: [Mgs] Crane Cans is closed, gone Crane Cans has closed up shop and laid of the work force. If you want a new Crane cam any time soon you should buy one now from anyone who has one in stock or might still be able to get one from a warehouse. http://www.autoblog.com/2009/02/25/report-crane-cams-shuttered http://www.news-journalonline.com/NewsJournalOnline/breakingnews/crane022409.htm _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html Mgs@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgs http://www.team.net/archive From mgs-bounces@autox.team.net Wed Feb 25 14:40:08 2009 From: Charles & Peggy Robinson To: Paul Hunt Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2009 15:22:04 -0600 Subject: Re: [Mgs] MGB rear brakes I'm aware that if you increase the size of the slave cylinder you get more force multiplication but less movement for a given displacement of the master piston. That's all I said. CR _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html Mgs@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgs http://www.team.net/archive From mgs-bounces@autox.team.net Wed Feb 25 15:09:22 2009 From: Steven Trovato To: Barney Gaylord , mgs@autox.team.net Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2009 16:43:22 -0500 Subject: Re: [Mgs] Unleaded fuel and Cylinder Head Well, if you are inclined to use an additive, none of them are free. Summit Racing shows the Redline additive at $7.95 to treat 20 gallons. Plus, if you believe that lead has a long lasting effect, then I imagine you could use it for a while and then either stop or cut back on the amount. Of course, you would have to decide how much of an environmental sin you would be committing. At 03:22 PM 2/25/2009, Barney Gaylord wrote: >At 01:40 PM 2/25/2009 -0500, Steven Trovato wrote: >>Speaking of additives, take a look at this: >> >>http://www.maxlead2000.com/ >> >>How can this possibly be legal? .... >>.... > >Who cares? At $45/gallon (plus shipping) it's $3 or more every time >you fill the tank. _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html Mgs@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgs http://www.team.net/archive From mgs-bounces@autox.team.net Wed Feb 25 16:12:30 2009 From: "W. David Houser" To: Barney Gaylord Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2009 17:29:50 -0500 Subject: Re: [Mgs] Crane Cans is closed, gone This is a real shame. I have a Crane cam in my TD and MGB and love them. Now what? Dave Houser On Feb 25, 2009, at 3:50 PM, Barney Gaylord wrote: > Crane Cans has closed up shop and laid of the work force. If you > want a new Crane cam any time soon you should buy one now from > anyone who has one in stock or might still be able to get one from a > warehouse. > > http://www.autoblog.com/2009/02/25/report-crane-cams-shuttered > > http://www.news-journalonline.com/NewsJournalOnline/breakingnews/crane022409.htm _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html Mgs@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgs http://www.team.net/archive From mgs-bounces@autox.team.net Wed Feb 25 18:43:25 2009 From: Tom Buchanan To: MG Mailing List Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2009 17:42:38 -0800 Subject: [Mgs] Sad http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1972-MGB-GT-parts-car_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trkparmsZ72Q3a1171Q7c66Q3a2Q7c65Q3a12Q7c39Q3a1Q7c240Q3a1318Q7c301Q3a0Q7c293Q3a20Q7c294Q3a50QQ_trksidZp3286Q2ec0Q2em14QQhashZitem170305703143QQitemZ170305703143QQptZSalvageQ5fPartsQ5fCars _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html Mgs@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgs http://www.team.net/archive From mgs-bounces@autox.team.net Wed Feb 25 18:52:50 2009 From: Murray Arundell To: Tom Buchanan Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2009 11:52:17 +1000 Subject: Re: [Mgs] Sad I hate to think what some of the 30 cars that have been scrapped were....... :( Murray Arundell On 26/02/2009, at 11:42 AM, Tom Buchanan wrote: > http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1972-MGB-GT-parts-car_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trkparmsZ72Q3a1171Q7c66Q3a2Q7c65Q3a12Q7c39Q3a1Q7c240Q3a1318Q7c301Q3a0Q7c293Q3a20Q7c294Q3a50QQ_trksidZp3286Q2ec0Q2em14QQhashZitem170305703143QQitemZ170305703143QQptZSalvageQ5fPartsQ5fCars _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html Mgs@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgs http://www.team.net/archive From mgs-bounces@autox.team.net Wed Feb 25 19:22:56 2009 From: James Schulte To: "Mgs@autox.team.net" Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2009 21:22:28 -0500 Subject: [Mgs] Need an independant inspector to look at an MG in the Deltona, Please get back to me ASAP if you are ready willing and able to look at a 1958 MG Magnette in the Deltona, Florida area. I have a verbal agreement and just need some one to verify what pictures show as a outstanding rebuild. Jim Schulte Aquatic Coordinator Souderton Area S.D. Former Secretary of the Philadelphia MG Club _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html Mgs@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgs http://www.team.net/archive From mgs-bounces@autox.team.net Wed Feb 25 22:33:26 2009 From: Barney Gaylord To: Charles & Peggy Robinson , Paul Hunt Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2009 23:32:55 -0600 Subject: Re: [Mgs] MGB rear brakes At 03:22 PM 2/25/2009 -0600, Charles & Peggy Robinson wrote: >I'm aware that if you increase the size of the slave cylinder you >get more force multiplication but less movement for a given >displacement of the master piston. That's all I said. >.... You never get less movement. You get slower movement, more fluid flow, and longer pedal travel until the shoes move the same distance to come into contact with the drum. When it stops moving you get higher force from the hydraulic pressure on the larger piston. Ergo, more braking force on the rear wheels and possible rear wheel lockup (after longer pedal travel). _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html Mgs@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgs http://www.team.net/archive From mgs-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Feb 26 02:07:13 2009 From: "Paul Hunt" To: "MG Mailing List" , "Tom Buchanan" Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2009 08:44:54 -0000 Subject: Re: [Mgs] Sad I love the "It is not operational or street legal" disclaimer. But suggesting it could be *towed* away? Dragged, more like. ----- Original Message ----- http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1972-MGB-GT-parts-car_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trk parmsZ72Q3a1171Q7c66Q3a2Q7c65Q3a12Q7c39Q3a1Q7c240Q3a1318Q7c301Q3a0Q7c293Q3a20 Q7c294Q3a50QQ_trksidZp3286Q2ec0Q2em14QQhashZitem170305703143QQitemZ1703057031 43QQptZSalvageQ5fPartsQ5fCars _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html You are subscribed as paul.hunt1@blueyonder.co.uk Mgs@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgs http://www.team.net/archive _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html Mgs@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgs http://www.team.net/archive From mgs-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Feb 26 02:16:11 2009 From: "Paul Hunt" To: "MG Mailing List" , "Tom Buchanan" Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2009 09:11:13 -0000 Subject: Re: [Mgs] MGB rear brakes You get slower movement of a larger slave piston for given *rate* of pedal movement. And you get less movement of a larger slave piston for a given *amount* of pedal movement, the two are inextricably linked. That is why you get a longer pedal travel with a larger slave piston in order to take up a given amount of free play in the drums. But it is irrelevant. Braking only starts once whatever free play there is in the system has been taken up at which point very little additional fluid is displaced as pressure in the system and hence retardation rapidly rises. All this started from the incorrect assertion that a *smaller* cylinder diameter gave more braking effort, long ago corrected. PaulH. ----- Original Message ----- You never get less movement. You get slower movement, more fluid flow, and longer pedal travel until the shoes move the same distance to come into contact with the drum. When it stops moving you get higher force from the hydraulic pressure on the larger piston. Ergo, more braking force on the rear wheels and possible rear wheel lockup (after longer pedal travel). _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html Mgs@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgs http://www.team.net/archive From mgs-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Feb 26 02:16:24 2009 From: "Paul Hunt" To: Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2009 09:15:06 -0000 Subject: [Mgs] Fw: MGB rear brakes The pressure *does* equalise in the MGB master cylinder. The pedal pushes on the first stage of the piston, that pushes on the fluid for the primary circuit (front brakes) which pushes on the second stage of the piston, which pushes on the fluid of the secondary circuit (rear brakes). There is a spring keeping the two sections of the piston apart. It is not until both circuits have taken up all the free play that either circuit starts developing any pressure, which means that the pressure in both circuits is equal - under normal circumstances. PaulH. ----- Original Message ----- But in a dual master cylinder system, it is possible to meet resistance in one circuit before reaching that point in the other circuit (for example, in the case of a failed hose in one circuit). The pressure does NOT equalize between the completely independent circuits. _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html Mgs@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgs http://www.team.net/archive From mgs-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Feb 26 07:28:57 2009 From: Paul Root To: Paul Hunt Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2009 08:28:18 -0600 Subject: Re: [Mgs] Sad In the pictures, I don't see many parts that could be used. Maybe the dash. There's no useful body panel. The interior is gone or trashed. Is there an engine? I don't even thing there's a cross member? Some windows and trim, maybe, and a rear axle. For that I have have to drag off a carcass? On Feb 26, 2009, at 2:44 AM, Paul Hunt wrote: > I love the "It is not operational or street legal" disclaimer. But > suggesting > it could be *towed* away? Dragged, more like. > ----- Original Message ----- > > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1972-MGB-GT-parts-car_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trk > parmsZ72Q3a1171Q7c66Q3a2Q7c65Q3a12Q7c39Q3a1Q7c240Q3a1318Q7c301Q3a0Q7c293Q3a20 > Q7c294Q3a50QQ_trksidZp3286Q2ec0Q2em14QQhashZitem170305703143QQitemZ1703057031 > 43QQptZSalvageQ5fPartsQ5fCars > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > > You are subscribed as paul.hunt1@blueyonder.co.uk > > > Mgs@autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgs > > http://www.team.net/archive > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > > You are subscribed as ptrmgb@gmail.com > > > Mgs@autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgs > > http://www.team.net/archive _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html Mgs@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgs http://www.team.net/archive From mgs-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Feb 26 09:24:30 2009 From: Simon Matthews To: Paul Hunt Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2009 08:24:01 -0800 Subject: Re: [Mgs] Fw: MGB rear brakes Paul, Thanks for that explanation. I think that it matches the diagram on the second page of that patent that I referred to. Presumably, the way it works is that when the pedal is initially pressed, the spring causes the secondary cylinder to move until the primary cylinder has moved enough to begin to raise the pressure in the primary circuit, at which time the force from the fluid will exceed the force from the spring. Is that right? Or is the spring only there to limit the movement of the secondary piston when the pedal is NOT pressed? Simon On Thu, Feb 26, 2009 at 1:15 AM, Paul Hunt wrote: > The pressure *does* equalise in the MGB master cylinder. The pedal pushes on > the first stage of the piston, that pushes on the fluid for the primary > circuit (front brakes) which pushes on the second stage of the piston, which > pushes on the fluid of the secondary circuit (rear brakes). There is a spring > keeping the two sections of the piston apart. It is not until both circuits > have taken up all the free play that either circuit starts developing any > pressure, which means that the pressure in both circuits is equal - under > normal circumstances. > > PaulH. > ----- Original Message ----- _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html Mgs@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgs http://www.team.net/archive From mgs-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Feb 26 09:38:29 2009 From: Phil Bates To: mgs@autox.team.net Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2009 10:56:16 -0700 Subject: [Mgs] Anyone done a nissan 5 speed conversion on an MGA I've got the engine out of my MGA, and am going to be re-installing it soon. I e- mailed the guys at Rivergate that do 5 speed conversions with a Nissan/Datsun 280z or 280zx transmission. I know someone that made this conversion to their MGB. That person is very happy with the conversion. I wondered if anyone has tried this transmission conversion with an MGA?? The kit is much less expensive than the ford sierra conversions that are out there. The Rivergate people said there would be some modification of the tunnel/some mounting issues to deal with, but that it has been done before. Anyone on the list have direct experience? Phil Bates _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html Mgs@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgs http://www.team.net/archive From mgs-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Feb 26 23:12:26 2009 From: Charles & Peggy Robinson To: Barney Gaylord , MG List Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2009 00:11:12 -0600 Subject: Re: [Mgs] MGB rear brakes Charles & Peggy Robinson wrote: > I'm sorry Barn, but I can't agree. Look at it. If the master and the > slave were the same size, the slave would move the same amount as the > master for a given displacement and the force would be 1 to 1 If the > slave was twice the diameter of the master, the force at the slave would > be doubled but the travel would be halved. > > CR > > Barney Gaylord wrote: >> At 03:22 PM 2/25/2009 -0600, Charles & Peggy Robinson wrote: >>> I'm aware that if you increase the size of the slave cylinder you get >>> more force multiplication but less movement for a given displacement >>> of the master piston. That's all I said. >>> .... >> >> You never get less movement. You get slower movement, more fluid >> flow, and longer pedal travel until the shoes move the same distance >> to come into contact with the drum. When it stops moving you get >> higher force from the hydraulic pressure on the larger piston. Ergo, >> more braking force on the rear wheels and possible rear wheel lockup >> (after longer pedal travel). _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html Mgs@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgs http://www.team.net/archive From mgs-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Feb 26 23:46:54 2009 From: Simon Matthews To: "Charles & Peggy Robinson" Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2009 22:45:58 -0800 Subject: Re: [Mgs] MGB rear brakes Charles, Where to start? 1. If the diameter is doubled, the area of the slave piston is quadrupled, so the 1:1 movement becomes 4:1. 2. As Barney suggested, people don't push the pedal a fixed distance. Instead, they push it until they get the appropriate pressure. With larger slave cylinders, they will push the pedal further and more fluid will flow into the rear slave cylinders. For the same pressure in the primary (which equates to approximately the same braking force, since most of the braking is at the front), there will be more force applied to the rear brakes. Paul H explained that the pistons in the master cylinder are arranged to equalize pressure in the front rear. If it takes more fluid to get the pressure to equalize with larger rear slave cylinders, then more fluid will flow into the rear circuit. Simon On Thu, Feb 26, 2009 at 10:11 PM, Charles & Peggy Robinson wrote: > Charles & Peggy Robinson wrote: >> >> I'm sorry Barn, but I can't agree. Look at it. If the master and the >> slave were the same size, the slave would move the same amount as the master >> for a given displacement and the force would be 1 to 1 If the slave was >> twice the diameter of the master, the force at the slave would be doubled >> but the travel would be halved. >> >> CR >> >> Barney Gaylord wrote: >>> >>> At 03:22 PM 2/25/2009 -0600, Charles & Peggy Robinson wrote: >>>> >>>> I'm aware that if you increase the size of the slave cylinder you get >>>> more force multiplication but less movement for a given displacement of the >>>> master piston. That's all I said. >>>> .... >>> >>> You never get less movement. You get slower movement, more fluid flow, >>> and longer pedal travel until the shoes move the same distance to come into >>> contact with the drum. When it stops moving you get higher force from the >>> hydraulic pressure on the larger piston. Ergo, more braking force on the >>> rear wheels and possible rear wheel lockup (after longer pedal travel). > > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > > You are subscribed as simon.d.matthews@gmail.com > > > Mgs@autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgs > > http://www.team.net/archive _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html Mgs@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgs http://www.team.net/archive From mgs-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Feb 26 23:56:18 2009 From: Charles & Peggy Robinson To: Barney Gaylord Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2009 00:09:44 -0600 Subject: Re: [Mgs] MGB rear brakes I'm sorry Barn, but I can't agree. Look at it. If the master and the slave were the same size, the slave would move the same amount as the master for a given displacement and the force would be 1 to 1 If the slave was twice the diameter of the master, the force at the slave would be doubled but the travel would be halved. CR Barney Gaylord wrote: > At 03:22 PM 2/25/2009 -0600, Charles & Peggy Robinson wrote: >> I'm aware that if you increase the size of the slave cylinder you get >> more force multiplication but less movement for a given displacement >> of the master piston. That's all I said. >> .... > > You never get less movement. You get slower movement, more fluid flow, > and longer pedal travel until the shoes move the same distance to come > into contact with the drum. When it stops moving you get higher force > from the hydraulic pressure on the larger piston. Ergo, more braking > force on the rear wheels and possible rear wheel lockup (after longer > pedal travel). _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html Mgs@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgs http://www.team.net/archive From mgs-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Feb 27 02:36:52 2009 From: "Paul Hunt" To: "Simon Matthews" Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2009 09:19:29 -0000 Subject: Re: [Mgs] Fw: MGB rear brakes Hi Simon, Initially, i.e. while the fluid is taking up the clearances in the calipers and drums, how much each piston moves is governed by the path of least resistance as someone has already said. If the secondary circuit has more resistance then the primary circuit will 'fill' first, and the spring between the two pistons will be compressed. When the primary circuit is full all further movement of the primary piston will cause an equal movement of the secondary piston to fill the secondary circuit. If the primary circuit has more resistance then the fluid between the pistons will cause the primary piston to push on the secondary piston and move that an equal amount compressing its spring (where fitted) first. If the circuits have equal resistance then both springs will tend to compress equally, and the secondary piston will move half the distance of the primary piston. But all that is only when taking up the clearances. The springs are mainly there to push both pistons back when the pedal is released, a stop controlling how far back the secondary piston can move. It's the later dual master with integral balance switch that has dual springs, the earlier dual master that used the remote balance switch only has one spring between the pistons, its is the primary piston returning that pulls the secondary piston back. You might also be interested in this with animated diagrams: http://auto.howstuffworks.com/auto-parts/brakes/brake-types/master-brake1.htm PaulH. ----- Original Message ----- Presumably, the way it works is that when the pedal is initially pressed, the spring causes the secondary cylinder to move until the primary cylinder has moved enough to begin to raise the pressure in the primary circuit... _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html Mgs@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgs http://www.team.net/archive From mgs-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Feb 27 03:06:59 2009 From: "Paul Hunt" To: Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2009 09:38:22 -0000 Subject: [Mgs] Fw: Fw: MGB rear brakes PS. If the pressure *wasn't* equal in both circuits the pressure differential switch would operate every time you put the brakes on. ----- Original Message ----- From: Paul Hunt To: Simon Matthews Cc: mgs@autox.team.net Sent: Friday, February 27, 2009 9:19 AM Subject: Re: [Mgs] Fw: MGB rear brakes Hi Simon, Initially, i.e. while the fluid is taking up the clearances in the calipers and drums, how much each piston moves is governed by the path of least resistance as someone has already said.... _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html Mgs@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgs http://www.team.net/archive From mgs-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Feb 27 06:38:55 2009 From: Eric Erickson To: mgs@autox.team.net Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2009 00:08:10 +1030 Subject: Re: [Mgs] Trans-ship me a gasket! Eric Erickson wrote: > > Thanks all - and for the offers "off list". > My lovely Cometic MLS (Multi Layer Steel) head gasket has arrived in Australia. After some nice chat with the people at Cometic they helped me out with shipping (my biggest worry). They got it down to the post office and I got it in ten days for just $US34.00 postage. Very helpful and lovely to talk to. I would certainly do business with them again. I waited until it got here and I saw the shipping cost before telling anyone - I did not know in advance... I just said "do you best) and hence why I didn't mention this earlier here Once again, thank you all for your on and off list offers of assistance. I really, really hope the thing fits now :-) Eric _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html Mgs@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgs http://www.team.net/archive From mgs-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Feb 27 06:49:36 2009 From: Eric Erickson To: MG List Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2009 00:19:08 +1030 Subject: [Mgs] OT : Tesla - in the flesh!! Well, when it happens, it happens in a rush. My boss has just contacted me to say that his TESLA (hell, they have barely started building/shipping the things anywhere) is going to land in Australia over the next week or so. He wants me to help him set it up and livery it up in the company colours for our Clipsal500 V8 Supercar event at the end of next month (this race event draws hundreds of thousands of people from all over the country) and he has been given a prime spot in a tent display at the racetrack... they also get a lap or so of the track each day of the four day event. "Murray Walker's Extreme Machines" Here is a short video of the of the cars from last year: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FR4ltF6ecx0 Pity I am working trackside each day or I may have had more of an involvement with the car. I will certainly try and swing a seat in the car for one of their laps!!!! Eric _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html Mgs@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgs http://www.team.net/archive From mgs-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Feb 27 06:59:20 2009 From: Dan DiBiase To: Eric Erickson , MG List Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2009 05:58:53 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: [Mgs] OT : Tesla - in the flesh!! Well, it would certainly be strange to hear the Tesla glide by after the lovely sound of flat 6's, V8's, V12s, etc..... That's one thing that I would definitely miss. I assume there is just some electric engine whine. Maybe you can get some video of the car on the track.... Dan D Central NJ USA '76 MGB Tourer '65 MGB Tourer (Project) NAMGBR #5-2328 http://dans65b.blogspot.com/ http://dans76b.blogspot.com/ http://dansautoblog.blogspot.com/ http://mywebpages.comcast.net/dibiase/Working_MG_Gallery.html http://dans-life-blog.blogspot.com/ ________________________________ From: Eric Erickson To: MG List Sent: Friday, February 27, 2009 8:49:08 AM Subject: [Mgs] OT : Tesla - in the flesh!! Well, when it happens, it happens in a rush. My boss has just contacted me to say that his TESLA (hell, they have barely started building/shipping the things anywhere) is going to land in Australia over the next week or so. He wants me to help him set it up and livery it up in the company colours for our Clipsal500 V8 Supercar event at the end of next month (this race event draws hundreds of thousands of people from all over the country) and he has been given a prime spot in a tent display at the racetrack... they also get a lap or so of the track each day of the four day event. "Murray Walker's Extreme Machines" Here is a short video of the of the cars from last year: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FR4ltF6ecx0 Pity I am working trackside each day or I may have had more of an involvement with the car. I will certainly try and swing a seat in the car for one of their laps!!!! Eric You are subscribed as d_dibiase@yahoo.com Mgs@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgs http://www.team.net/archive _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html Mgs@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgs http://www.team.net/archive From mgs-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Feb 27 07:21:06 2009 From: Eric Erickson To: MG List Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2009 00:50:37 +1030 Subject: Re: [Mgs] OT : Tesla - in the flesh!! Dan DiBiase wrote: > Well, it would certainly be strange to hear the Tesla glide by after the > lovely sound of flat 6's, V8's, V12s, etc..... That's one thing > that I would definitely miss. I assume there is just some electric > engine whine. Maybe you can get some video of the car on the track.... Trust me. You will get photos and videos until you are bored to death of them. Or until I am :-) Eric _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html Mgs@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgs http://www.team.net/archive From mgs-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Feb 27 07:55:08 2009 From: Rick Lindsay To: Eric Erickson , MG List , Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2009 06:54:41 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: [Mgs] OT : Tesla - in the flesh!! I get a kick out of all the emphasis, praise and glory that electric vehicles get. Just yesterday there was a glowing piece on NPR about new electric trucks introduced at LA and Longbeach ports. Everyone was just drooling over how GREEN everything was. Lots of folks there patting themselves on the back. Perhaps they didn't read the bit about the electricity that they use being generated by coal-fired power plants. Electric vehicles just transfer the source of the pollution away from the wealthy, artsy neighborhoods to the blue collar neighborhoods where the power plants were built! That's right. There's no free lunch. rick _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html Mgs@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgs http://www.team.net/archive From mgs-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Feb 27 08:37:59 2009 From: "Paul Hunt" To: "Rick Lindsay" , "MG List" Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2009 15:22:34 -0000 Subject: Re: [Mgs] OT : Tesla - in the flesh!! I wonder what the CO emissions of centrally produced electricity for, say, 100 miles in an electric car are as opposed to 100 miles in a modern European internal combustion engine. The biggest problem with hybrids and electric cars isn't the coal-fired power stations but the volume of CO and other pollution produced in making the batteries and control systems as well as the vehicles themselves. You are far more environmentally sound in driving a European diesel a couple of years old than junking one of those to buy a new hybrid or electric! To produce an electric car with a 0-60 time of 4 secs with all the reduction in battery charge and life that implies is simply thumbing their nose at the environmentalists. But would I enjoy performance like that? Of course I would! PaulH. ----- Original Message ----- ... Electric vehicles just transfer the source of the pollution away from the wealthy, artsy neighborhoods to the blue collar neighborhoods where the power plants were built! _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html Mgs@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgs http://www.team.net/archive From mgs-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Feb 27 08:49:41 2009 From: Paul Root To: Rick Lindsay Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2009 09:49:07 -0600 Subject: Re: [Mgs] OT : Tesla - in the flesh!! Your forgetting, California hardly makes it's own power anymore. They're pushing their problem on somebody else, and that's good enough for them. On Feb 27, 2009, at 8:54 AM, Rick Lindsay wrote: > I get a kick out of all the emphasis, praise and glory that electric > vehicles get. Just yesterday there was a glowing piece on NPR about > new electric trucks introduced at LA and Longbeach ports. Everyone > was just drooling over how GREEN everything was. Lots of folks > there patting themselves on the back. Perhaps they didn't read the > bit about the electricity that they use being generated by coal- > fired power plants. Electric vehicles just transfer the source of > the pollution away from the wealthy, artsy neighborhoods to the blue > collar neighborhoods where the power plants were built! That's > right. There's no free lunch. > > rick _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html Mgs@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgs http://www.team.net/archive From mgs-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Feb 27 09:17:57 2009 From: Barrie Robinson To: Rick Lindsay ,Eric Erickson Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2009 11:17:11 -0500 Subject: Re: [Mgs] OT : Tesla - in the flesh!! Rick, I cannot understand the hype either. I know that transferring energy to another form loses a bit, so we take oil and make electricity, then we transport electricity across the country for delivery to an outlet. Then we charge up a battery - the battery runs the car's electric motor. Thus we have lost energy in several processes - Why not go straight to oil thus eliminating these loss processes? As to coal burning - why not make gas and get people to use gas instead of electricity (just got a gas stove - wonderbah !!) At 09:54 AM 2/27/2009, Rick Lindsay wrote: >I get a kick out of all the emphasis, praise and glory that electric >vehicles get. Just yesterday there was a glowing piece on NPR about >new electric trucks introduced at LA and Longbeach ports. Everyone >was just drooling over how GREEN everything was. Lots of folks >there patting themselves on the back. Perhaps they didn't read the >bit about the electricity that they use being generated by >coal-fired power plants. Electric vehicles just transfer the source >of the pollution away from the wealthy, artsy neighborhoods to the >blue collar neighborhoods where the power plants were >built! That's right. There's no free lunch. > >rick >_______________________________________________ >Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > >You are subscribed as barrie@look.ca > > >Mgs@autox.team.net >http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgs > >http://www.team.net/archive Regards Barrie Barrie Robinson (705) 721-9060 http://www.britishv8.org/MG/BarrieRobinson.htm http://www.britcot.com _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html Mgs@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgs http://www.team.net/archive From mgs-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Feb 27 09:41:35 2009 From: Rick Lindsay To: MG List , Paul Hunt Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2009 08:41:08 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: [Mgs] OT : Tesla - in the flesh!! And add one more dimension to this thesis; What are we going to do with all the toxic chemicals in the batteries once they're no longer operable? And of course, all of this makes the assumption that CO2 really is a bad thing. The plants certainly love it... rick --- On Fri, 2/27/09, Paul Hunt wrote: > From: Paul Hunt > Subject: Re: [Mgs] OT : Tesla - in the flesh!! > To: "Rick Lindsay" , "MG List" > Date: Friday, February 27, 2009, 9:22 AM > I wonder what the CO emissions of centrally produced > electricity for, say, 100 miles in an electric car are as > opposed to 100 miles in a modern European internal > combustion engine. The biggest problem with hybrids and > electric cars isn't the coal-fired power stations but > the volume of CO and other pollution produced in making the > batteries and control systems as well as the vehicles > themselves. You are far more environmentally sound in > driving a European diesel a couple of years old than junking > one of those to buy a new hybrid or electric! > > To produce an electric car with a 0-60 time of 4 secs with > all the reduction in battery charge and life that implies is > simply thumbing their nose at the environmentalists. But > would I enjoy performance like that? Of course I would! > > PaulH. > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > ... Electric vehicles just transfer the source of the > pollution away from the wealthy, artsy neighborhoods to the > blue collar neighborhoods where the power plants were built! _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html Mgs@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgs http://www.team.net/archive From mgs-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Feb 27 09:45:40 2009 From: Paul Root To: Barrie Robinson Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2009 10:45:04 -0600 Subject: Re: [Mgs] OT : Tesla - in the flesh!! I bit of it is that it's easier to control/reduce pollution from a single plant than millions of cars. But there's a lot of sticking ones head in the sand of environmentalists that think a Zero emission car has no environmental effect from it's use. A friend of mine with a Prius is that way. He's generally a smart guy, but really wears blinders with regard to the environment and reality. On Feb 27, 2009, at 10:17 AM, Barrie Robinson wrote: > Rick, > > I cannot understand the hype either. I know that transferring > energy to another form loses a bit, so we take oil and make > electricity, then we transport electricity across the country for > delivery to an outlet. Then we charge up a battery - the battery > runs the car's electric motor. Thus we have lost energy in several > processes - Why not go straight to oil thus eliminating these loss > processes? As to coal burning - why not make gas and get people to > use gas instead of electricity (just got a gas stove - wonderbah !!) > > At 09:54 AM 2/27/2009, Rick Lindsay wrote: >> I get a kick out of all the emphasis, praise and glory that >> electric vehicles get. Just yesterday there was a glowing piece on >> NPR about new electric trucks introduced at LA and Longbeach >> ports. Everyone was just drooling over how GREEN everything was. >> Lots of folks there patting themselves on the back. Perhaps they >> didn't read the bit about the electricity that they use being >> generated by coal-fired power plants. Electric vehicles just >> transfer the source of the pollution away from the wealthy, artsy >> neighborhoods to the blue collar neighborhoods where the power >> plants were built! That's right. There's no free lunch. >> >> rick >> _______________________________________________ >> Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html >> >> >> You are subscribed as barrie@look.ca >> >> >> Mgs@autox.team.net >> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgs >> >> http://www.team.net/archive > > Regards > Barrie > > Barrie Robinson > (705) 721-9060 > http://www.britishv8.org/MG/BarrieRobinson.htm > http://www.britcot.com _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > > You are subscribed as ptrmgb@gmail.com > > > Mgs@autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgs > > http://www.team.net/archive _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html Mgs@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgs http://www.team.net/archive From mgs-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Feb 27 09:52:46 2009 From: "Andrew B. Lundgren" To: Paul Hunt Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2009 09:52:19 -0700 Subject: Re: [Mgs] OT : Tesla - in the flesh!! It isn't even CO, the poison, it is C02. On Fri, 27 Feb 2009 15:22:34 -0000, "Paul Hunt" wrote: > I wonder what the CO emissions of centrally produced electricity for, say, > 100 > miles in an electric car are as opposed to 100 miles in a modern European > internal combustion engine. The biggest problem with hybrids and electric > cars isn't the coal-fired power stations but the volume of CO and other > pollution produced in making the batteries and control systems as well as > the > vehicles themselves. -- Andrew Lundgren lundgren@byu.net _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html Mgs@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgs http://www.team.net/archive From mgs-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Feb 27 10:40:34 2009 From: Max Heim To: MG List Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2009 09:31:48 -0800 Subject: Re: [Mgs] OT : Tesla - in the flesh!! Well, not ALL electric power plants are coal-fired (not even in Texas). With a mix of hydro, natural gas, coal and wind, like we have in CA, at least you can claim that SOME of the energy powering your car isn't fossil fuel sourced, or carbon generating. Which you can't say for gas or diesel vehicles. It would be even better if the emissions standards for power plants were as stringent as they are for automobiles, which is not remotely the case... on 2/27/09 6:54 AM, Rick Lindsay at rolindsay@yahoo.com wrote: > I get a kick out of all the emphasis, praise and glory that electric vehicles > get. Just yesterday there was a glowing piece on NPR about new electric > trucks introduced at LA and Longbeach ports. Everyone was just drooling over > how GREEN everything was. Lots of folks there patting themselves on the back. > Perhaps they didn't read the bit about the electricity that they use being > generated by coal-fired power plants. Electric vehicles just transfer the > source of the pollution away from the wealthy, artsy neighborhoods to the blue > collar neighborhoods where the power plants were built! That's right. > There's no free lunch. > > rick -- Max Heim '66 MGB GHN3L76149 If you're near Mountain View, CA, it's the primer red one with chrome wires _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html Mgs@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgs http://www.team.net/archive From mgs-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Feb 27 10:40:52 2009 From: Max Heim To: MG List Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2009 09:35:07 -0800 Subject: Re: [Mgs] OT : Tesla - in the flesh!! Umm, because oil is a finite resource? And it's unlikely that solar cells will ever be capable of directly powering a practical vehicle? So might as well start working the bugs out now. -- Max Heim '66 MGB GHN3L76149 If you're near Mountain View, CA, it's the primer red one with chrome wires on 2/27/09 8:17 AM, Barrie Robinson at barrie@look.ca wrote: > Rick, > > I cannot understand the hype either. I know that transferring energy > to another form loses a bit, so we take oil and make electricity, > then we transport electricity across the country for delivery to an > outlet. Then we charge up a battery - the battery runs the car's > electric motor. Thus we have lost energy in several processes - Why > not go straight to oil thus eliminating these loss processes? As to > coal burning - why not make gas and get people to use gas instead of > electricity (just got a gas stove - wonderbah !!) > > At 09:54 AM 2/27/2009, Rick Lindsay wrote: >> I get a kick out of all the emphasis, praise and glory that electric >> vehicles get. Just yesterday there was a glowing piece on NPR about >> new electric trucks introduced at LA and Longbeach ports. Everyone >> was just drooling over how GREEN everything was. Lots of folks >> there patting themselves on the back. Perhaps they didn't read the >> bit about the electricity that they use being generated by >> coal-fired power plants. Electric vehicles just transfer the source >> of the pollution away from the wealthy, artsy neighborhoods to the >> blue collar neighborhoods where the power plants were >> built! That's right. There's no free lunch. >> >> rick >> _______________________________________________ > > Regards > Barrie > > Barrie Robinson > (705) 721-9060 > http://www.britishv8.org/MG/BarrieRobinson.htm > http://www.britcot.com > _______________________________________________ _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html Mgs@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgs http://www.team.net/archive From mgs-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Feb 27 10:40:57 2009 From: Max Heim To: MG List Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2009 09:39:36 -0800 Subject: Re: [Mgs] OT : Tesla - in the flesh!! on 2/27/09 8:41 AM, Rick Lindsay at rolindsay@yahoo.com wrote: > And of course, all of this makes the assumption that CO2 really is a bad > thing. The plants certainly love it... Well, if you choose to take that attitude, in the face of all scientific evidence (that is, scientific evidence not paid for by oil and coal lobbies), then there is no point continuing the discussion (unless we move it to the Flat Earth list). -- Max Heim '66 MGB GHN3L76149 If you're near Mountain View, CA, it's the primer red one with chrome wires _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html Mgs@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgs http://www.team.net/archive From mgs-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Feb 27 10:53:31 2009 From: Barney Gaylord To: Paul Root ,Barrie Robinson Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2009 11:53:04 -0600 Subject: Re: [Mgs] OT : Tesla - in the flesh!! At 10:45 AM 2/27/2009 -0600, Paul Root wrote: >.... there's a lot of sticking ones head in the sand of >environmentalists that think a Zero emission car has no >environmental effect from it's use. >.... We all know that electric cars pollute by way of what comes out of the electrical power generating plant. So how about a REAL practical negative pollution vehicle? Some years ago when the government was mandating production of "zero pollution" vehicles, Honda built a negative pollution vehicle that runs on common gasoline, and you wouldn't know it from any other gasoline powered car. They put catalyst plating on the outside of the cooling radiator. The radiator then removed more pollutants from the ambient air than the car was emitting from the tail pipe, thus making it a negative pollution vehicle, actually cleaning the air as you drove. You can guess where that went. Bureaucrats with a vested interest in electric cars shot it down because the emissions standards only consider tail pipe emissions. Ignoring negative emissions of the catalytic radiator, is just as stupid as ignoring positive emissions of coal fired electric power plants. _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html Mgs@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgs http://www.team.net/archive From mgs-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Feb 27 10:55:24 2009 From: Rick Lindsay To: MG List , Max Heim Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2009 09:54:51 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: [Mgs] OT : Tesla - in the flesh!! LOL! There will be no winning this argument, or even talking about it, because BELIEF is stronger than knowledge. rick --- On Fri, 2/27/09, Max Heim wrote: > From: Max Heim > Subject: Re: [Mgs] OT : Tesla - in the flesh!! > To: "MG List" > Date: Friday, February 27, 2009, 11:39 AM > on 2/27/09 8:41 AM, Rick Lindsay at rolindsay@yahoo.com > wrote: > > > And of course, all of this makes the assumption that > CO2 really is a bad > > thing. The plants certainly love it... > > > Well, if you choose to take that attitude, in the face of > all scientific > evidence (that is, scientific evidence not paid for by oil > and coal > lobbies), then there is no point continuing the discussion > (unless we move > it to the Flat Earth list). > > > -- > > Max Heim > '66 MGB GHN3L76149 > If you're near Mountain View, CA, > it's the primer red one with chrome wires > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > > You are subscribed as rolindsay@yahoo.com > > > Mgs@autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgs > > http://www.team.net/archive _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html Mgs@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgs http://www.team.net/archive From mgs-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Feb 27 11:40:28 2009 From: Max Heim To: MG List Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2009 10:10:50 -0800 Subject: Re: [Mgs] OT : Tesla - in the flesh!! Hmm, even taking that story at face value, it doesn't in any way address the carbon issue, which is actually far more critical at this point. Vehicle tailpipe emissions (of "traditional" pollutants) are already so low that further improvement is merely incremental. In areas where smog is still a problem, it is the number of emitting vehicles that needs to be reduced, not their individual emissions (which can scarcely be improved) -- this is another case for electric vehicles. -- Max Heim '66 MGB GHN3L76149 If you're near Mountain View, CA, it's the primer red one with chrome wires on 2/27/09 9:53 AM, Barney Gaylord at barneymg@mgaguru.com wrote: > At 10:45 AM 2/27/2009 -0600, Paul Root wrote: >> .... there's a lot of sticking ones head in the sand of >> environmentalists that think a Zero emission car has no >> environmental effect from it's use. >> .... > > We all know that electric cars pollute by way of what comes out of > the electrical power generating plant. So how about a REAL practical > negative pollution vehicle? Some years ago when the government was > mandating production of "zero pollution" vehicles, Honda built a > negative pollution vehicle that runs on common gasoline, and you > wouldn't know it from any other gasoline powered car. They put > catalyst plating on the outside of the cooling radiator. The > radiator then removed more pollutants from the ambient air than the > car was emitting from the tail pipe, thus making it a negative > pollution vehicle, actually cleaning the air as you drove. > > You can guess where that went. Bureaucrats with a vested interest in > electric cars shot it down because the emissions standards only > consider tail pipe emissions. Ignoring negative emissions of the > catalytic radiator, is just as stupid as ignoring positive emissions > of coal fired electric power plants. _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html Mgs@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgs http://www.team.net/archive From mgs-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Feb 27 11:40:45 2009 From: Barrie Robinson To: Max Heim ,MG List Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2009 13:38:22 -0500 Subject: Re: [Mgs] OT : Tesla - in the flesh!! Max, Come on Max, you know plants love CO2...and they love water. So I am going to completely immerse all my plants in big tubs of water !!! At 12:39 PM 2/27/2009, Max Heim wrote: >on 2/27/09 8:41 AM, Rick Lindsay at rolindsay@yahoo.com wrote: > > > And of course, all of this makes the assumption that CO2 really is a bad > > thing. The plants certainly love it... > > >Well, if you choose to take that attitude, in the face of all scientific >evidence (that is, scientific evidence not paid for by oil and coal >lobbies), then there is no point continuing the discussion (unless we move >it to the Flat Earth list). > > >-- > >Max Heim >'66 MGB GHN3L76149 >If you're near Mountain View, CA, >it's the primer red one with chrome wires >_______________________________________________ >Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > >You are subscribed as barrie@look.ca > > >Mgs@autox.team.net >http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgs > >http://www.team.net/archive Regards Barrie Barrie Robinson (705) 721-9060 http://www.britishv8.org/MG/BarrieRobinson.htm http://www.britcot.com _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html Mgs@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgs http://www.team.net/archive From mgs-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Feb 27 11:48:17 2009 From: Rick Lindsay To: MG List , Max Heim Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2009 10:47:50 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: [Mgs] OT : Tesla - in the flesh!! Interesting perspective. The problem we face - independent of whether we call it 'climate change' or 'dependence on foreign oil' - is not petroleum addiction, it's ENERGY ADDICTION. And until we ratchet down our demand for energy, nothing much is going to change - well, not until it runs out. The next problem is even more frightening. Its just this; Everyone in the U.S. could drive a Prius and oil consumption would still increase. We can't nor do we have the right, to tell China and India that they don't have the right to grow. rick --- On Fri, 2/27/09, Max Heim wrote: > From: Max Heim > Subject: Re: [Mgs] OT : Tesla - in the flesh!! > To: "MG List" > Date: Friday, February 27, 2009, 12:10 PM > Hmm, even taking that story at face value, it doesn't in > any way address the > carbon issue, which is actually far more critical at this > point. Vehicle > tailpipe emissions (of "traditional" pollutants) > are already so low that > further improvement is merely incremental. > > In areas where smog is still a problem, it is the number of > emitting > vehicles that needs to be reduced, not their individual > emissions (which can > scarcely be improved) -- this is another case for electric > vehicles. > > > -- > > Max Heim > '66 MGB GHN3L76149 > If you're near Mountain View, CA, > it's the primer red one with chrome wires > > on 2/27/09 9:53 AM, Barney Gaylord at barneymg@mgaguru.com > wrote: > > > At 10:45 AM 2/27/2009 -0600, Paul Root wrote: > >> .... there's a lot of sticking ones head in > the sand of > >> environmentalists that think a Zero emission car > has no > >> environmental effect from it's use. > >> .... > > > > We all know that electric cars pollute by way of what > comes out of > > the electrical power generating plant. So how about a > REAL practical > > negative pollution vehicle? Some years ago when the > government was > > mandating production of "zero pollution" > vehicles, Honda built a > > negative pollution vehicle that runs on common > gasoline, and you > > wouldn't know it from any other gasoline powered > car. They put > > catalyst plating on the outside of the cooling > radiator. The > > radiator then removed more pollutants from the ambient > air than the > > car was emitting from the tail pipe, thus making it a > negative > > pollution vehicle, actually cleaning the air as you > drove. > > > > You can guess where that went. Bureaucrats with a > vested interest in > > electric cars shot it down because the emissions > standards only > > consider tail pipe emissions. Ignoring negative > emissions of the > > catalytic radiator, is just as stupid as ignoring > positive emissions > > of coal fired electric power plants. > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > > You are subscribed as rolindsay@yahoo.com > > > Mgs@autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgs > > http://www.team.net/archive _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html Mgs@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgs http://www.team.net/archive From mgs-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Feb 27 12:08:22 2009 From: Simon Matthews To: Rick Lindsay Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2009 10:59:55 -0800 Subject: Re: [Mgs] OT : Tesla - in the flesh!! I don't even think the problem is energy addiction -- it's addiction to limited sources of energy (oil, gas and coal). Once you have an infrastructure for electric cars, then you can easily substitute the energy source -- for example nuclear fusion (which has been 20 years away for the last 20 years as far as I can tell). That however, doesn't address the energy required to mine and transport all the lithium. Personally, I think that plug-in hybrids are the way to go. Simon On Fri, Feb 27, 2009 at 10:47 AM, Rick Lindsay wrote: > Interesting perspective. The problem we face - independent of whether we call it 'climate change' or 'dependence on foreign oil' - is not petroleum addiction, it's ENERGY ADDICTION. And until we ratchet down our demand for energy, nothing much is going to change - well, not until it runs out. The next problem is even more frightening. Its just this; Everyone in the U.S. could drive a Prius and oil consumption would still increase. We can't nor do we have the right, to tell China and India that they don't have the right to grow. _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html Mgs@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgs http://www.team.net/archive From mgs-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Feb 27 12:10:31 2009 From: Max Heim To: MG List Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2009 10:44:48 -0800 Subject: Re: [Mgs] OT : Tesla - in the flesh!! My point was, if we are going to talk about the costs/benefits of emissions-free vehicles as an issue at all (pro-Tesla or anti-Tesla), we have to include the climatic effects of CO2. Otherwise, you can easily skew the argument in favor of fossil fuel vehicles (inefficiencies of transport, point sources of pollution, etc.). Deriding climate change as a "belief" as opposed to "knowledge" is essentially akin to deriding evolution as a "mere theory". It is a rhetorical device for devaluing an evidence-based scientific position. You can dispute the actual evidence; you can propose an alternative theory; but merely calling it a "belief" is not an argument, it is dodging the issue. I don't "believe" anything (in this sense) -- I am provisionally convinced by the body of evidence. For some propositions, such as "what goes up must come down", it has attained the force of habit. The trick is to not let that happen indiscriminately, as in these examples: "home prices will continue to climb" or "capital markets can grow indefinitely". Or "the atmosphere can absorb an indefinite amount of CO2 without consequences". on 2/27/09 9:54 AM, Rick Lindsay at rolindsay@yahoo.com wrote: > > LOL! There will be no winning this argument, or even talking about it, > because BELIEF is stronger than knowledge. > > rick > > > --- On Fri, 2/27/09, Max Heim wrote: > >> From: Max Heim >> Subject: Re: [Mgs] OT : Tesla - in the flesh!! >> To: "MG List" >> Date: Friday, February 27, 2009, 11:39 AM >> on 2/27/09 8:41 AM, Rick Lindsay at rolindsay@yahoo.com >> wrote: >> >>> And of course, all of this makes the assumption that >> CO2 really is a bad >>> thing. The plants certainly love it... >> >> >> Well, if you choose to take that attitude, in the face of >> all scientific >> evidence (that is, scientific evidence not paid for by oil >> and coal >> lobbies), then there is no point continuing the discussion >> (unless we move >> it to the Flat Earth list). >> >> >> -- >> >> Max Heim >> '66 MGB GHN3L76149 >> If you're near Mountain View, CA, >> it's the primer red one with chrome wires -- Max Heim '66 MGB GHN3L76149 If you're near Mountain View, CA, it's the primer red one with chrome wires _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html Mgs@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgs http://www.team.net/archive From mgs-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Feb 27 12:27:15 2009 From: Paul Root To: Barney Gaylord Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2009 13:26:42 -0600 Subject: Re: [Mgs] OT : Tesla - in the flesh!! I thought that was Volvo? On Feb 27, 2009, at 11:53 AM, Barney Gaylord wrote: > At 10:45 AM 2/27/2009 -0600, Paul Root wrote: >> .... there's a lot of sticking ones head in the sand of >> environmentalists that think a Zero emission car has no >> environmental effect from it's use. >> .... > > We all know that electric cars pollute by way of what comes out of > the electrical power generating plant. So how about a REAL > practical negative pollution vehicle? Some years ago when the > government was mandating production of "zero pollution" vehicles, > Honda built a negative pollution vehicle that runs on common > gasoline, and you wouldn't know it from any other gasoline powered > car. They put catalyst plating on the outside of the cooling > radiator. The radiator then removed more pollutants from the > ambient air than the car was emitting from the tail pipe, thus > making it a negative pollution vehicle, actually cleaning the air as > you drove. > > You can guess where that went. Bureaucrats with a vested interest > in electric cars shot it down because the emissions standards only > consider tail pipe emissions. Ignoring negative emissions of the > catalytic radiator, is just as stupid as ignoring positive emissions > of coal fired electric power plants. _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html Mgs@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgs http://www.team.net/archive From mgs-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Feb 27 12:35:38 2009 From: Paul Root To: Simon Matthews Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2009 13:35:06 -0600 Subject: Re: [Mgs] OT : Tesla - in the flesh!! There is no one answer. There isn't one thing that will replace the internal combustion engine. If everyone had a plug-in hybrid, the electrical grid would collapse. I would really like a Prius, new Insight, or Chevy Volt. Or at least I think I would. But it's from an economic standpoint. Less money out of my wallet for transportation. Not because the vehicle is "green". The batteries in the current Prius blow that. Unfortunately, my commute to work is only one part of what I need to do with a vehicle. And other things probably would preclude me from getting something like this. As I've said before, my car wants are simple. I want something the size of a new Mini, handles like the Mini, gets gas milage like a Prius (in perfect conditions), that seats 8 people my size (6'2" north of 220lbs), top needs to go down, and will haul/tow 5000lbs. Is that too much to ask? :-) On Feb 27, 2009, at 12:59 PM, Simon Matthews wrote: > I don't even think the problem is energy addiction -- it's addiction > to limited sources of energy (oil, gas and coal). > > Once you have an infrastructure for electric cars, then you can easily > substitute the energy source -- for example nuclear fusion (which has > been 20 years away for the last 20 years as far as I can tell). > > That however, doesn't address the energy required to mine and > transport all the lithium. Personally, I think that plug-in hybrids > are the way to go. > > Simon > > On Fri, Feb 27, 2009 at 10:47 AM, Rick Lindsay > wrote: >> Interesting perspective. The problem we face - independent of >> whether we > call it 'climate change' or 'dependence on foreign oil' - is not > petroleum > addiction, it's ENERGY ADDICTION. And until we ratchet down our > demand for > energy, nothing much is going to change - well, not until it runs > out. The > next problem is even more frightening. Its just this; Everyone in > the U.S. > could drive a Prius and oil consumption would still increase. We > can't nor do > we have the right, to tell China and India that they don't have the > right to > grow. > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > > You are subscribed as ptrmgb@gmail.com > > > Mgs@autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgs > > http://www.team.net/archive _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html Mgs@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgs http://www.team.net/archive From mgs-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Feb 27 12:37:16 2009 From: The Roxter To: MG List Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2009 13:36:49 -0600 Subject: Re: [Mgs] OT : Tesla - in the flesh!! Max Heim wrote: > on 2/27/09 8:41 AM, Rick Lindsay at rolindsay@yahoo.com wrote: > > >> And of course, all of this makes the assumption that CO2 really is a bad >> thing. The plants certainly love it... >> > > > Well, if you choose to take that attitude, in the face of all scientific > evidence (that is, scientific evidence not paid for by oil and coal > lobbies), then there is no point continuing the discussion (unless we move > it to the Flat Earth list). I remain unconvinced. Have a peek at http://www.global-dumbing.com/ -The Roxter -- _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html Mgs@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgs http://www.team.net/archive From mgs-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Feb 27 12:50:19 2009 From: Dan DiBiase To: Paul Root Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2009 11:47:18 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: [Mgs] OT : Tesla - in the flesh!! Volvo actually had some coating on their radiators that converted ozone to oxygen. Not sure if they still have it. Dan D Central NJ USA '76 MGB Tourer '65 MGB Tourer (Project) NAMGBR #5-2328 http://dans65b.blogspot.com/ http://dans76b.blogspot.com/ http://dansautoblog.blogspot.com/ http://mywebpages.comcast.net/dibiase/Working_MG_Gallery.html http://dans-life-blog.blogspot.com/ ________________________________ From: Paul Root To: Barney Gaylord Cc: MG List Sent: Friday, February 27, 2009 2:26:42 PM Subject: Re: [Mgs] OT : Tesla - in the flesh!! I thought that was Volvo? On Feb 27, 2009, at 11:53 AM, Barney Gaylord wrote: > At 10:45 AM 2/27/2009 -0600, Paul Root wrote: >> .... there's a lot of sticking ones head in the sand of environmentalists that think a Zero emission car has no environmental effect from it's use. >> .... > > We all know that electric cars pollute by way of what comes out of the electrical power generating plant. So how about a REAL practical negative pollution vehicle? Some years ago when the government was mandating production of "zero pollution" vehicles, Honda built a negative pollution vehicle that runs on common gasoline, and you wouldn't know it from any other gasoline powered car. They put catalyst plating on the outside of the cooling radiator. The radiator then removed more pollutants from the ambient air than the car was emitting from the tail pipe, thus making it a negative pollution vehicle, actually cleaning the air as you drove. > > You can guess where that went. Bureaucrats with a vested interest in electric cars shot it down because the emissions standards only consider tail pipe emissions. Ignoring negative emissions of the catalytic radiator, is just as stupid as ignoring positive emissions of coal fired electric power plants. You are subscribed as d_dibiase@yahoo.com Mgs@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgs http://www.team.net/archive _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html Mgs@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgs http://www.team.net/archive From mgs-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Feb 27 13:30:23 2009 From: Rick Lindsay To: MGS Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2009 12:29:56 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: [Mgs] OT : Tesla - in the flesh!! Folks, what one believes to be fact or fiction is one's own business - even if climate change is the topic. This is no place for that discussion. I am sorry to have fanned the flames of this controversial topic on our car list. Please accept my apology. rick _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html Mgs@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgs http://www.team.net/archive From mgs-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Feb 27 13:59:34 2009 From: Dan DiBiase To: Rick Lindsay , MGS Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2009 12:59:05 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: [Mgs] OT : Tesla - in the flesh!! Hard to believe an OT discussion on the MG List....! LOL..... Just to relate it back to MG's, since I mentioned windbags...er, wind farms on Cape Cod, I'll also mention this place - http://www.toadhallcars.com/ Anyone visiting the Cape HAS to go see this collection..... Dan D Central NJ USA '76 MGB Tourer '65 MGB Tourer (Project) NAMGBR #5-2328 http://dans65b.blogspot.com/ http://dans76b.blogspot.com/ http://dansautoblog.blogspot.com/ http://mywebpages.comcast.net/dibiase/Working_MG_Gallery.html http://dans-life-blog.blogspot.com/ ________________________________ From: Rick Lindsay To: MGS Sent: Friday, February 27, 2009 3:29:56 PM Subject: Re: [Mgs] OT : Tesla - in the flesh!! Folks, what one believes to be fact or fiction is one's own business - even if climate change is the topic. This is no place for that discussion. I am sorry to have fanned the flames of this controversial topic on our car list. Please accept my apology. rick You are subscribed as d_dibiase@yahoo.com Mgs@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgs http://www.team.net/archive _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html Mgs@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgs http://www.team.net/archive From mgs-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Feb 27 14:07:32 2009 From: Zach Dorsch To: mgs@autox.team.net Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2009 13:04:13 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: [Mgs] OT : Tesla - in the flesh!! Not sure if anyone has seen this or not, but I found this the other day looking for an alternative set of wheels/rims for my B. http://pioneerconversions.com/mygallery_1.7/gallery.inc.php?mghash=387d573eb2 120339094a7f5bff558679&mggal=9 Zach _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html Mgs@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgs http://www.team.net/archive From mgs-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Feb 27 14:26:44 2009 From: Phil Bates To: mgs@autox.team.net Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2009 14:25:47 -0700 Subject: Re: [Mgs] OT : Tesla - in the flesh!! I've actually seen a Tesla in the flesh. It's an impressively good looking car. The one I saw was at the LA motorshow in November of 2007. As Tesla didn't have their own disply, they had a Tesla in the Yokahama tire display. There was no one around the car as far as corporate representation was concerned. People could open the door look in, etc. It was a pretty metallic dark blue one. Probably an early production prototype, but impressive anyhow. I have pictures of my sister touching it if I wante to dig those out sometime. Phil _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html Mgs@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgs http://www.team.net/archive From mgs-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Feb 27 15:42:14 2009 From: Richard Ewald To: Paul Root Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2009 14:30:07 -0800 Subject: Re: [Mgs] OT : Tesla - in the flesh!! Actually Volvo does produces several cars that when in use leave the air cleaner than they found it. My 05 V70 is such a model. Yes it has a catylist coating on the radiator as well as some other trick features emission wise. Sent from my iPhone On Feb 27, 2009, at 11:26 AM, Paul Root wrote: > I thought that was Volvo? > > On Feb 27, 2009, at 11:53 AM, Barney Gaylord wrote: > >> At 10:45 AM 2/27/2009 -0600, Paul Root wrote: >>> .... there's a lot of sticking ones head in the sand of >>> environmentalists that think a Zero emission car has no >>> environmental effect from it's use. >>> .... >> >> We all know that electric cars pollute by way of what comes out of >> the electrical power generating plant. So how about a REAL >> practical negative pollution vehicle? Some years ago when the >> government was mandating production of "zero pollution" vehicles, >> Honda built a negative pollution vehicle that runs on common >> gasoline, and you wouldn't know it from any other gasoline powered >> car. They put catalyst plating on the outside of the cooling >> radiator. The radiator then removed more pollutants from the >> ambient air than the car was emitting from the tail pipe, thus >> making it a negative pollution vehicle, actually cleaning the air >> as you drove. >> >> You can guess where that went. Bureaucrats with a vested interest >> in electric cars shot it down because the emissions standards only >> consider tail pipe emissions. Ignoring negative emissions of the >> catalytic radiator, is just as stupid as ignoring positive >> emissions of coal fired electric power plants. > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > > You are subscribed as richard.ewald@gmail.com > > > Mgs@autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgs > > http://www.team.net/archive _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html Mgs@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgs http://www.team.net/archive From mgs-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Feb 27 16:10:35 2009 From: Max Heim To: MG List Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2009 14:59:58 -0800 Subject: Re: [Mgs] OT : Tesla - in the flesh!! You can fit 8 in a Mini, so long as they are circus clowns on 2/27/09 11:35 AM, Paul Root at ptrmgb@gmail.com wrote: > As I've said before, my car wants are simple. I want something the > size of a new Mini, handles like the Mini, gets gas milage like a > Prius (in perfect conditions), that seats 8 people my size (6'2" north > of 220lbs), top needs to go down, and will haul/tow 5000lbs. > > Is that too much to ask? > > :-) -- Max Heim '66 MGB GHN3L76149 If you're near Mountain View, CA, it's the primer red one with chrome wires _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html Mgs@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgs http://www.team.net/archive From mgs-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Feb 27 16:11:46 2009 From: Max Heim To: MG List Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2009 15:04:40 -0800 Subject: Re: [Mgs] OT : Tesla - in the flesh!! The factory showroom is about 10 miles from here. I see them driving around from time to time. Personally, I think the world needs a 4-passenger subcompact EV for an affordable price, a lot more than it needs a high performance 2-seat roadster for $100K. But I know why they did it -- it's the publicity. The guys in Berkeley trying to market cheap electric runabouts can't get any press. -- ========================== Max 1967 Fastback Johnny Lightning Muscle Cars USA #14 273 Commando Factory disc brakes Mountain View, CA on 2/27/09 1:25 PM, Phil Bates at jello@cableone.net wrote: > I've actually seen a Tesla in the flesh. It's an impressively good > looking car. The one I saw was at the LA motorshow in November of > 2007. As Tesla didn't have their own disply, they had a Tesla in the > Yokahama tire display. There was no one around the car as far as > corporate representation was concerned. People could open the door > look in, etc. It was a pretty metallic dark blue one. Probably an > early production prototype, but impressive anyhow. > > I have pictures of my sister touching it if I wante to dig those out > sometime. > > Phil _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html Mgs@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgs http://www.team.net/archive From mgs-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Feb 27 16:15:13 2009 From: Max Heim To: MG List Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2009 15:13:50 -0800 Subject: [Mgs] Tire question (Taking the hint, we're back on topic) My B desperately needs two tires. To match the 2 good ones I would need a pair of Vredestein Sprint 175R14s, but there are no local dealers, so by the time I had them shipped and mounted it would run about $240, before tax. For about $280 I could get a full set of 4 Pirelli P5 185/70-14s mounted (also pre-tax). I know a lot of people run this size. My question is, what do you do for inner tubes? The B has 14 x 4.5" chrome knock-off wires. Alternative suggestions also appreciated. -- Max Heim '66 MGB GHN3L76149 If you're near Mountain View, CA, it's the primer red one with chrome wires _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html Mgs@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgs http://www.team.net/archive From mgs-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Feb 27 16:41:47 2009 From: Aaron Whiteman To: MG Mailing List List Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2009 15:40:58 -0800 Subject: Re: [Mgs] OT : Tesla - in the flesh!! On Feb 27, 2009, at 3:04 PM, Max Heim wrote: > The factory showroom is about 10 miles from here. I see them driving > around > from time to time. > > Personally, I think the world needs a 4-passenger subcompact EV for an > affordable price, a lot more than it needs a high performance 2-seat > roadster for $100K. But I know why they did it -- it's the > publicity. The > guys in Berkeley trying to market cheap electric runabouts can't get > any > press. The other aspect is range. I won't consider any pure EV at this point, because my driving makes them a nogo. Most of my trips are less than 15 miles total, some of them might be as high as 30. I make such a trip once or twice a week (I walk or ride the bus to work). When I get the chance, I take 'pleasure drives' in the MG, or long distance drives to visit my parents. Such drives can easily exceed 300 miles a day. Since these longer drives dominate the miles put on the car (30 miles a week is less than 1600 miles a year; I can do that in one round trip to the other side of Washington), I need to make my car purchases with distance capabilities in mind. The Tesla, with it's 250 mile range is considered to be a pretty good EV. In the relatively remote place I inhabit, it's not enough. A subcompact would be expected to be able to go 300 or even 500 miles in a day with little trouble, but you can't charge a battery like you can refill a fuel tank. With a sportscar, the whole point of it is to be pleasurable, so the distance sacrifice is less of an issue. That's why the Volt is so intriguing. It has all the urban goodness of an electric car, with the distance capabilities of a gasoline powered car. Of course, I expect to be able to drive *my* sportscar on marathon drives. When I drove to Petaluma in 2007, the shortest day was quite doable by a Tesla, at 133 miles. The rest ranged from 230 to 410 miles per day, for 7 days, with no place to charge during the night. Even my camera battery was going dead on me. [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type application/pkcs7-signature which had a name of smime.p7s] _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html Mgs@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgs http://www.team.net/archive From mgs-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Feb 27 16:44:47 2009 From: Rick Lindsay To: MG List , Max Heim Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2009 15:43:51 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: [Mgs] Tire question Thanks max. I'm facing the need to buy four tires for my new project car. Its a 1962 Triumph TR3b. (Can I say the T-word here?) It's the 72nd from last TR3 made! This car is so nice and original that it isn't a restoration project but rather, a preservation project. The car has steel disk wheels and the original tires were 550-15s (some sources quote 590-15). $98 at CokerTire. There are radials that mimic that size (165-15) at CokerTire and surprisingly they're only $135 each! rick > (Taking the hint, we're back on topic) > > My B desperately needs two tires. To match the 2 good ones > I would need a > pair of Vredestein Sprint 175R14s, but there are no local > dealers, so by the > time I had them shipped and mounted it would run about > $240, before tax. > > For about $280 I could get a full set of 4 Pirelli P5 > 185/70-14s mounted > (also pre-tax). I know a lot of people run this size. My > question is, what > do you do for inner tubes? > > The B has 14 x 4.5" chrome knock-off wires. > > Alternative suggestions also appreciated. > > > -- > > Max Heim > '66 MGB GHN3L76149 > If you're near Mountain View, CA, > it's the primer red one with chrome wires > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > > You are subscribed as rolindsay@yahoo.com > > > Mgs@autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgs > > http://www.team.net/archive _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html Mgs@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgs http://www.team.net/archive From mgs-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Feb 27 17:12:11 2009 From: "Michael W Jose" To: Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2009 17:11:03 -0700 Subject: [Mgs] OT Question Sorry to bomb the list, but I checked the archives and got conflicting answers: If I'm towing my MG full of CATS, do I disconnect the driveshaft or not, and what's the best brake fluid to use, LMA or silicone? Mike Jose 79 B slooooowly coming back to life Lurker Tempe AZ _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html Mgs@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgs http://www.team.net/archive From mgs-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Feb 27 17:15:06 2009 From: Aaron Whiteman To: MG Mailing List List Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2009 16:14:55 -0800 Subject: Re: [Mgs] OT Question On Feb 27, 2009, at 4:11 PM, Michael W Jose wrote: > If I'm towing my MG full of CATS, do I disconnect the driveshaft or > not, > and what's the best brake fluid to use, LMA or silicone? It depends, are the cats pregnant? [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type application/pkcs7-signature which had a name of smime.p7s] _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html Mgs@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgs http://www.team.net/archive From mgs-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Feb 27 17:42:19 2009 From: Max Heim To: MG List Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2009 16:22:18 -0800 Subject: Re: [Mgs] Tire question Yeah, I realize I can get original spec sizes from Coker, but 1) I am not a stickler for originality when it comes to operational aspects, and 2) I can't see paying over twice the price for less performance (compared to any kind of modern radial). My car is merely a fun driver -- an actual decent-looking original car might merit a different approach. I was comparing some other sizes and it looks like 175/70-14 is basically equivalent in diameter to the original 155R14 (so at least it won't be any worse insofar as ground clearance), and won't be such a stretch on the 4.5" rims. My 175s look pretty bulgy already, so I was really dubious about 185s. Sumitomo HTR200s at 175/70-14 are only $45 each at Tire Rack (and are ranked #1 in category, whatever that means). That's even cheaper than the Pirellis. They will ship to my local shop for mounting. I would imagine that these would take the same size tube as the 175R14. on 2/27/09 3:43 PM, Rick Lindsay at rolindsay@yahoo.com wrote: > Thanks max. > > I'm facing the need to buy four tires for my new project car. Its a 1962 > Triumph TR3b. (Can I say the T-word here?) It's the 72nd from last TR3 made! > This car is so nice and original that it isn't a restoration project but > rather, a preservation project. The car has steel disk wheels and the > original tires were 550-15s (some sources quote 590-15). $98 at CokerTire. > There are radials that mimic that size (165-15) at CokerTire and surprisingly > they're only $135 each! > > rick > >> (Taking the hint, we're back on topic) >> >> My B desperately needs two tires. To match the 2 good ones >> I would need a >> pair of Vredestein Sprint 175R14s, but there are no local >> dealers, so by the >> time I had them shipped and mounted it would run about >> $240, before tax. >> >> For about $280 I could get a full set of 4 Pirelli P5 >> 185/70-14s mounted >> (also pre-tax). I know a lot of people run this size. My >> question is, what >> do you do for inner tubes? >> >> The B has 14 x 4.5" chrome knock-off wires. >> >> Alternative suggestions also appreciated. >> >> >> -- >> >> Max Heim >> '66 MGB GHN3L76149 >> If you're near Mountain View, CA, >> it's the primer red one with chrome wires -- Max Heim '66 MGB GHN3L76149 If you're near Mountain View, CA, it's the primer red one with chrome wires _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html Mgs@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgs http://www.team.net/archive From mgs-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Feb 27 18:40:30 2009 From: Max Heim To: MG List Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2009 17:20:37 -0800 Subject: Re: [Mgs] Tire question Yup, exactly, that's why I gave up on the skinnies... TRs are kind of different beasts, in that respect. Kind of a whole generation earlier in terms of wheel/tire fitment. I mean, racing TR3s use wider tires, but they also have no ground clearance and even stiffer springing. -- Max Heim '66 MGB GHN3L76149 If you're near Mountain View, CA, it's the primer red one with chrome wires on 2/27/09 5:14 PM, rolindsay@yahoo.com at rolindsay@yahoo.com wrote: > I've used some of the Korean tires before and have been pleased. Would not > hesitate to do so again. The problem I face is that the TR uses a large > diameter but skinny size. That's a good deal harder to source at TireRack. > > Rick > Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html Mgs@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgs http://www.team.net/archive From mgs-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Feb 27 18:57:05 2009 From: Paul Root To: Max Heim Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2009 19:55:57 -0600 Subject: Re: [Mgs] OT : Tesla - in the flesh!! Seems I fit at least 7 in my '71 Capri in college... On Feb 27, 2009, at 4:59 PM, Max Heim wrote: > You can fit 8 in a Mini, so long as they are circus clowns > > > > > on 2/27/09 11:35 AM, Paul Root at ptrmgb@gmail.com wrote: > >> As I've said before, my car wants are simple. I want something the >> size of a new Mini, handles like the Mini, gets gas milage like a >> Prius (in perfect conditions), that seats 8 people my size (6'2" >> north >> of 220lbs), top needs to go down, and will haul/tow 5000lbs. >> >> Is that too much to ask? >> >> :-) _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html Mgs@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgs http://www.team.net/archive From mgs-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Feb 27 19:07:31 2009 From: Glenn Schnittke To: mgs@autox.team.net Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2009 20:06:48 -0600 Subject: Re: [Mgs] OT : Tesla - in the flesh!! I'm kind of surprised that his topic has generated so much interest on a mailing list that is supposed to be about cars that haven't been manufactured for 27 years. When the original company went out of business the car got crap for mileage compared with todays cars, and worse for performance. On the subject of pollution, I believe it's still true (please someone correct me on this if I'm wrong) that, over a ten year life span, 80% of the pollution that is produced by an automobile is during manufacture. I'm sure that's changed since I checked it last. The reason I bought my first MGB was because my wife and I had to get a second car to support driving our twelve year old son around to his engagements and we figured with the money we had available we had better get something that would give a little back for the headaches we would inherit from the original owners. I have been driving a B (which has been referred to as agricultural technology) as primary transportation for fifteen years. I am willing to do the maintenance needed to keep it running. I have to in order to get to work. Electric cars are an old idea and the reason they failed in the 1800's is the same reason they are failing today. They aren't as totally efficient as internal combustion cars and they are easier to maintain by oneself. The internal combustion engine holds the marketplace and will until either the rocket surgeons find a way to make the battery cheaper and more dependable or the government mandates that all of the cars that we love and cherish will be consigned to the dustbin of history. _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html Mgs@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgs http://www.team.net/archive From mgs-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Feb 27 19:26:01 2009 From: Glenn Schnittke To: mgs@autox.team.net Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2009 20:25:31 -0600 Subject: Re: [Mgs] OT Question That depends on whether you consider the car is infested or you're using the car to relocate the cats. If the former, it doesn't matter. If the latter, I would disconnect the drive shaft if the relocation is over 500 miles. As to the brake fluid question, again it depends on whether you want the cats to live or not. Silicon is less poisonous. If you're really serious, I'd suggest standard coolant. > Sorry to bomb the list, but I checked the archives and got conflicting > answers: > > If I'm towing my MG full of CATS, do I disconnect the driveshaft or not, > and what's the best brake fluid to use, LMA or silicone? > > Mike Jose > 79 B slooooowly coming back to life > Lurker > Tempe AZ _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html Mgs@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgs http://www.team.net/archive From mgs-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Feb 27 19:55:26 2009 From: David Breneman To: mgs@autox.team.net Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2009 18:55:01 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: [Mgs] OT Question --- On Fri, 2/27/09, Michael W Jose wrote: > If I'm towing my MG full of CATS, do I disconnect the > driveshaft or not, > and what's the best brake fluid to use, LMA or > silicone? If you're towing the car on its rear wheels for any considerable distance, you need to remove the drive shaft because the transmission oil pump is driven from the engine end. Silicone brake fluid works well. I've had it in my MGA since the restoration, but you need to *really* clean out the system before substituting silicone for, say, Girling. Also, silicone compresses a little, so you have to get used to the pedal feeling a little spongier than it did before. That doesn't effect stopping distance. Cats? Lay them out on the road under the tow vehicle to give it more traction. _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html Mgs@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgs http://www.team.net/archive From mgs-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Feb 27 20:30:21 2009 From: "Ed's Shop" To: "MG List" Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2009 21:30:20 -0600 Subject: Re: [Mgs] OT : Tesla - in the flesh!! <> In '73 (I think) my G.F. had the V-6 version I needed to borrow it one evening and her 'condition' was that I had to take her and her girl friends to this "hot spot tavern"!!! Me being the 'polite & generous' dude (at the time) agreed (I already had the car) QUICKLY !!! I knew some of her girl friends!!! WOW is lame. Turned out there where EIGHT of them !!!! One of my more 'enjoyable' drives !!!! LOL Anon _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html Mgs@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgs http://www.team.net/archive From mgs-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Feb 27 20:33:07 2009 From: Paul Root To: david_breneman@yahoo.com Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2009 21:32:08 -0600 Subject: Re: [Mgs] OT Question There is no oil pump in the MGB 4 speed. You could put the MG on top fop of the cats, thereby saving the tires and transmission, and ending this whole discussion on the driveshaft. On Feb 27, 2009, at 8:55 PM, David Breneman wrote: > --- On Fri, 2/27/09, Michael W Jose wrote: > > >> If I'm towing my MG full of CATS, do I disconnect the >> driveshaft or not, >> and what's the best brake fluid to use, LMA or >> silicone? > > If you're towing the car on its rear wheels for any > considerable distance, you need to remove the > drive shaft because the transmission oil pump is > driven from the engine end. > > Silicone brake fluid works well. I've had it in > my MGA since the restoration, but you need to > *really* clean out the system before substituting > silicone for, say, Girling. Also, silicone > compresses a little, so you have to get used to > the pedal feeling a little spongier than it > did before. That doesn't effect stopping > distance. > > Cats? Lay them out on the road under the tow > vehicle to give it more traction. > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > > You are subscribed as ptrmgb@gmail.com > > > Mgs@autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgs > > http://www.team.net/archive _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html Mgs@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgs http://www.team.net/archive From mgs-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Feb 27 20:50:55 2009 From: David Breneman To: mgs@autox.team.net Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2009 19:50:28 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: [Mgs] OT Question --- On Fri, 2/27/09, Paul Root wrote: > There is no oil pump in the MGB 4 speed. There is a helical groove cut into the drive shaft, which carries oil to the gears. If "pump" is too generous a term for that feature, it provides lubrication nonetheless. _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html Mgs@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgs http://www.team.net/archive From mgs-bounces@autox.team.net Sat Feb 28 00:50:01 2009 From: Eric Erickson To: mgs@autox.team.net Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2009 18:19:19 +1030 Subject: Re: [Mgs] OT : Tesla - in the flesh!! Sheesh, step away from the computer and... I love the Tesla for the technology. I love it for its looks. I love it because it gets off the line FAST (I love FAST). I love it because an electric car immediately makes people think about climate change and environmental issues - and as long as people are thinking about this stuff (unless their minds are too far closed to open) they will be thinking about what they might do to lessen (or at least not hasten) the destruction. I love the Tesla because it is cool and because I have now been promised to be one of the first to drive one in Australia and despite loving a 40+ year old car, I also love shiny new stuff. If the Tesla uses pollution causing sources of energy - then we will just have to create non-polluting sources of energy! You ain't gonna spoil my fun! :-) Eric _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html Mgs@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgs http://www.team.net/archive From mgs-bounces@autox.team.net Sat Feb 28 02:22:32 2009 From: "Paul Hunt" To: "Rick Lindsay" , "Eric Erickson" Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2009 16:52:12 -0000 Subject: Re: [Mgs] OT : Tesla - in the flesh!! Put cattle and sheep in bags and capture methane. ----- Original Message ----- ... why not make gas and get people to use gas instead of electricity _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html Mgs@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgs http://www.team.net/archive From mgs-bounces@autox.team.net Sat Feb 28 05:47:11 2009 From: Paul Osborne To: Max Heim Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2009 07:46:41 -0500 Subject: Re: [Mgs] Tire question Max, use the same tubes they will be fine. I have the same size in my GT with wire wheels and all is well. paul >(Taking the hint, we're back on topic) > >My B desperately needs two tires. To match the 2 good ones I would need a >pair of Vredestein Sprint 175R14s, but there are no local dealers, so by the >time I had them shipped and mounted it would run about $240, before tax. > >For about $280 I could get a full set of 4 Pirelli P5 185/70-14s mounted >(also pre-tax). I know a lot of people run this size. My question is, what >do you do for inner tubes? > >The B has 14 x 4.5" chrome knock-off wires. > >Alternative suggestions also appreciated. > > >-- > >Max Heim >'66 MGB GHN3L76149 >If you're near Mountain View, CA, >it's the primer red one with chrome wires >_______________________________________________ >Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > >You are subscribed as paul@ece.rochester.edu > > >Mgs@autox.team.net >http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgs > >http://www.team.net/archive -- Paul Osborne University of Rochester Department of Electrical and Computer Engineering 201 Hopeman Building RC Rochester New York 14627 585-275-5226 _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html Mgs@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgs http://www.team.net/archive From mgs-bounces@autox.team.net Sat Feb 28 08:12:50 2009 From: David Breneman To: MG List Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2009 07:12:22 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: [Mgs] OT : Tesla - in the flesh!! --- On Fri, 2/27/09, Paul Root wrote: > Seems I fit at least 7 in my '71 Capri in college... I got pulled over by a cop once just because he couldn't believe I had seven people in my BMW 1800/02. I carried three in my MGB on a few occasions, too; but it was easier with the top down. ...And I'm not going to make any comments on the Manbearpig debate. :-) _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html Mgs@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgs http://www.team.net/archive From mgs-bounces@autox.team.net Sat Feb 28 08:15:18 2009 From: David Breneman To: mgs@autox.team.net Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2009 07:14:52 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: [Mgs] OT : Tesla - in the flesh!! --- On Fri, 2/27/09, Glenn Schnittke wrote: > I'm kind of surprised that his topic has generated so > much interest on a mailing list that is supposed to be about > cars that haven't been manufactured for 27 years. I think you mean cars that haven't been available in the US for, well, now it's 28 years, isn't it? MGs were manufactured up until just a few years ago. _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html Mgs@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgs http://www.team.net/archive From mgs-bounces@autox.team.net Sat Feb 28 08:46:48 2009 From: Aaron Whiteman To: MG Mailing List Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2009 07:46:14 -0800 Subject: Re: [Mgs] OT : Tesla - in the flesh!! On Feb 28, 2009, at 7:12 AM, David Breneman wrote: > I got pulled over by a cop once just because he couldn't > believe I had seven people in my BMW 1800/02. I carried > three in my MGB on a few occasions, too; but it was easier > with the top down. I once carried a good portion of the high school volleyball team in my dad's 78 MG. I think there were 6 of us in that poor little roadster. It struggled to get up the hill, but I sure enjoyed the trip! [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type application/pkcs7-signature which had a name of smime.p7s] _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html Mgs@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgs http://www.team.net/archive From mgs-bounces@autox.team.net Sat Feb 28 08:50:14 2009 From: "Paul Hunt" To: , Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2009 15:26:26 -0000 Subject: Re: [Mgs] OT : Tesla - in the flesh!! Still are. ----- Original Message ----- I think you mean cars that haven't been available in the US for, well, now it's 28 years, isn't it? MGs were manufactured up until just a few years ago. _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html Mgs@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgs http://www.team.net/archive From mgs-bounces@autox.team.net Sat Feb 28 08:57:43 2009 From: David Breneman To: mgs@autox.team.net Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2009 07:57:16 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: [Mgs] OT : Tesla - in the flesh!! --- On Sat, 2/28/09, Paul Hunt wrote: > Still are. Are they back in production? Last I'd heard, only a few pre-production units had been assembled. _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html Mgs@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgs http://www.team.net/archive From mgs-bounces@autox.team.net Sat Feb 28 09:13:39 2009 From: "Paul Hunt" To: , Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2009 16:09:38 -0000 Subject: Re: [Mgs] OT : Tesla - in the flesh!! 500 limited edition TFs are being (or have all been by now) final assembled at Longbridge and on sale. History repeating itself, that's how the MGB was produced at Abingdon. PaulH. ----- Original Message ----- Are they back in production? Last I'd heard, only a few pre-production units had been assembled. _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html Mgs@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgs http://www.team.net/archive From mgs-bounces@autox.team.net Sat Feb 28 12:40:23 2009 From: Murray Arundell To: "Paul Hunt" Date: Sun, 1 Mar 2009 05:42:49 +1000 Subject: Re: [Mgs] OT : Tesla - in the flesh!! MG Saloons are also in full production in China and production of the Roadster (TF500) is about to commence. Murray Arundell Brisbane Australia On 01/03/2009, at 2:09 AM, Paul Hunt wrote: > 500 limited edition TFs are being (or have all been by now) final > assembled at > Longbridge and on sale. History repeating itself, that's how the > MGB was > produced at Abingdon. > > PaulH. > ----- Original Message ----- > > Are they back in production? Last I'd heard, only a few > pre-production units had been assembled. > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > > You are subscribed as arundell@ghs.com.au > > > Mgs@autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgs > > http://www.team.net/archive _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html Mgs@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgs http://www.team.net/archive From mgs-bounces@autox.team.net Sat Feb 28 18:58:13 2009 From: Bob Howard To: michaelwjose@hotmail.com Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2009 20:45:54 -0500 Subject: Re: [Mgs] OT Question Mike, As you found, these questions have been asked before. I would disconnect the driveshaft if I were towing for more than a few miles. Some say there is adequate lubrication; some say not. It's four bolts on the rear flange to undo in order to assure that there can be no problem with the gearbox and OD. LMA is my choice. I've used both. Having done so, for my driving I see no advantage to the silicone. Both work fine, but it is essential that the system be clean whenever a change of fluid is done. BTW, LMA is now sold as new formula, higher wet boil temp, synthetic, about $29 per gallon, DOT3 & DOT4 compatible. Bob On Fri, 27 Feb 2009 17:11:03 -0700 "Michael W Jose" writes: > Sorry to bomb the list, but I checked the archives and got > conflicting answers: > > If I'm towing my MG full of CATS, do I disconnect the driveshaft or > not, and what's the best brake fluid to use, LMA or silicone? > > Mike Jose > 79 B slooooowly coming back to life > Lurker > Tempe AZ ____________________________________________________________ Click here to find the perfect picture with our powerful photo search features. http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/fc/BLSrjpTEuJA8vxvjQqMu2DaCjyXbQ8ze7n9r1L492Ss5Jgi0JauMAXtmfHS/ _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html Mgs@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgs http://www.team.net/archive